philosophy in film

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:47 am

Consider...

Unless you believe in a God that judges you worthy of immortality and salvation, you've got only limited options in dealing with the oblivion that seems to be an inherent component of death.

Of course if you've got the money, the possibilities increase. For example there's this option: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryonics

And who hasn't imagined what it might be like if someone were to have this done, be reanimated off in the distant future, and make the necessary adjustments to a whole new life in a whole new world. What might that be like? How much of who you once were would be in sync with all of the changes that have unfolded over years. And, in this case, the year is 2084.

One of those films that is bursting at the seams with all manner of provocative conjecture. What if this, what if that. A whole new world in which to speculate about right and wrong, good and bad.

Love and lust.

What would you think, feel, do? After all, do you really imagine it will be the same reaction as Marc's?

Then it all revolves around whether the plot and the characters either enhance the experience for you or encumber it with the sort of miscues that prompt you to imagine how much better it could have been. And the general consensus among the critics is that it could have been better indeed. For example, by scaling back on all those [at times] god-awful flashbacks.

Still, the subject itself is no less fascinating.

As for the science on display here, how realistic is it? You tell me.

IMDb

Oona Chaplin, who plays the character of Naomi, is the granddaughter of legendary actor Charles Chaplin.

The urban legend suggesting Walt Disney was cryopreserved is false; he was cremated and interred at Forest Lawn Memorial Park Cemetery.


at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realive
trailer: https://youtu.be/Z9-xnelobwo


REALIVE [2016]
Written and directed by Mateo Gil

Marc [voiceover]: Imagine, you were born... totally aware and conscious of everything around you. Conscious you were coming out of someone else's body, joint to it by a bloody cord. That you are completely covered in blood. Conscious of the dry air entering your lungs for the first time; the sharp sounds in your ears; the blinding light in your eyes. Conscious that your bones are unbearably soft and your life is so fragile, it could disappear at any moment. That's what being resurrected is like.

...

Victor: Good morning, Miss Mansfra. Welcome to Prodigy. Where humanity's greatest dream is coming true. Are you aware that our team of top international scientists has developed the world's most advanced regeneration program? We're the only ones capable of regenerating up to 65 percent of the human organism. Prodigy Health Corporation... The only company in the world that can bring you immortality. Because immortality is only a question of time.

...

Victor: That's a scanned map of Lazarus with an accuracy almost to the cell. We use it to study the primary difficulties and to make decisions before the big surgery. Like what proportion of the body can be reanimated and what proportion must be substituted by bionic parts and organs developed in our laboratory.

...

Marc [voiceover]: Why does time pass so slowly when we're children? Why does the future seem like a huge endless eternity? Why do we never feel anything that intensely again? Only the pain...

...

Doctor: Our worst-case prognosis has been confirmed. It's too late to operate. All that we can do right now is try to slow its spread with treatment. At this point, radiotherapy and co-adjuvant chemotherapy is still the most effective option.
Marc: How long have I got?
Doctor: Based on our experience with this type of tumor, you'll be able to live, more or less comfortably for about a year.


Cue the options.

Marc [vocieover]: You can't imagine all the things that need to be done to dismantle your life. And prepare everything for when you are gone...Telling the people you love. Deciding who not to tell. Managing all the concern you will awaken. Telling your mother. Explaining to her that she's going to outlive you. Writing your will. Selling your properties. Emptying the house of your personal belongings. Looking at them for the last time. When you get rid of everything you ever were...what's left?

...

Naomi [to Marc]: I want to be with you through this. I want to spend the rest of your life with you.

...

Marc: What do you guys think about cryonization?
Friend: Like Walt Disney, right?
Marc: Walt Disney didn't have himself cryonized, but yes.
Friend: So what is it?
Friend: Basically, after you die, your body gets put into a capsule with um, liquid nitrogen? Am I right? In hopes that someday, medicine might be able to cure whatever disease you have or just to live longer.

...

Marc: Let me show you something....this article is seven years old now. They extracted the heart matrix out of a dead rat and inject its stem cells into it. A few days later, the heart started beating. And this is just the beginning. I mean, since then, they've even managed to fabricate simple human organs. They've even transplanted some of them successfully. There's a revolution coming. At some point in the not-so-distant future, they'll be able to manufacture organs specifically created to suit each patient. I mean, imagine, I could just simply replace my pharynx with a new one.

...

Charles: Look man, the truth is, I still don't trust it. All the websites I've seen look like they belong to a cult or something. There's no guarantee. Did you know that in 1979, they found the bodies of nine people that have been cryonized? In a cemetery, here in California, thawed, 'cause the company was cutting costs.

...

Naomi [to Marc]: Why do you think that anybody from the future would want to bring you back to life? Or anybody else for that matter? The world is gonna be totally overpopulated. You'll be like a man from the 19th century. I mean, what's the point of that? Unless they wanna use you as guinea pigs for science.


Then this part:

Charles: Everywhere I look, they say the body needs to be cryonized as soon as possible after you're declared legally dead.
Marc: So your cells don't deteriorate.
Charles: But no matter what they did, it would take several hours. Even a day or more to complete the process. The damage will be huge. Not to mention the harm caused by the disease and the treatment before you die.
Martc: Yeah. I'm not doing any more chemo. I already saw my father spend years of his life fighting his disease. Dying little by little. I won't go through that. And as far as the time between death and cryonization...well, I have a plan to make sure that they get to me quickly and start pumping blood right away.
Charles: How... How will you do that? I mean you would have to know the exact circumstances of your death.
Marc: Yeah. Um, I'm gonna make sure they're waiting close by and that I'm in good physical shape when the time comes. I gotta die before the disease gets a hold of me.


Bingo: Suicide. That's the bet. Abandon the present for what may or may not be a future.

Marc [voiceover]: Ladies and gentlemen of the future, it's time to introduce myself. I'll use the same words as Dr. West. My name is Marc Jarvis, And I am the first man ever to be resurrected. To summarize, this is what I am. 20 percent remains of vital organs and tissue recovered from my old body. Mainly the brain and the rest of the central nervous system. 65 percent cloned bones muscle, skin, nerve endings, and other organ remains. 10 percent bionic implants to reinforce the muscular, skeletal system and sensory organs. And 5 percent internal technology designed to regulate and monitor the correct functioning of the organism. On top of that, add a system of external connection. A detachable umbilical cord. A nearly constant means of connecting me to my new mechanical mother. Dr. West and his team have had to face innumerable problems since my reanimation. and their respective solutions have been insufferable. More surgery. Organ removal. Induced coma. External control of vital signs. The administering of drugs to prevent adverse reaction. More drugs to ease the effects of those drugs. And so on, and so on, and so on. All this resulting in a terribly fragile organism. Permanently on the edge of collapse. The Laboratory Man. Frankenstein's monster....But there is another way to look at it. I was going to die. I was going to disappear. Forever. And I'm alive again. I'm alive. I'm alive.

...

Dr. Gethers: Actually, Marc, there is something you've never seen before. Technology's biggest revolution since computers. We call it MW or Mind Writer. If you connect it to your head, it can extract images and sounds. With concentration and practice, you can record your thoughts. Nowadays, MW is used for everything. This is where the information is recorded. Then later, it is used to substantiate anything that has occurred, or to present reports and projects. Or to simply share experiences and connect with people. Or see what they're doing behind your back. It's also used to create art. You were an artist, weren't you?
Marc: Yes.
Doctor Gethers: Apart from anything else, it would help us to get to know you better. And not only us, very soon, many people will want to know first-hand, how you feel. We want you to have something ready when we present you to society to the media and to our investors.
Marc: The media?
Doctor Gethers: A lot of people have paid good money for your resurrection. It's important that the world meets you, Marc.


Of course: the ulterior motives of the reanimaters.

Marc: You got a boyfriend?
Elizabeth: I think our notion of couples is not as defined as it was back in your time.
Marc: What do you mean?
Elizabeth: Well, let's just say that romantic love has come under a lot more scrutiny. You were truly slaves to it back then. We don't suppress much of our love anymore.
Marc: So what do you do in your spare time?
Elizabeth: Um, well, since I started working here, not very much, um I'm a big fan of Mind Writer, almost an addict. I watch series, I have dinner with my parents. I meet with my sex group.
Marc: Sex group?
Elizabeth: I'm lucky, it's very complete. And I've got good friends there. I like you. If you want, we can have sex some time. Well, later on, of course. When your body feels strong enough.

...

Marc [voiceover]: Life. What do we expect from it? Certainly not this fragility. This half speed existence. We definitely don't expect a medical history full of afflictions and minor defects. A propensity for thrombosis. Numbness in the extremities. Involuntary movements. Loss of equilibrium. Scaling of the skin. Irritation of conjunctive tissue. Respiratory insufficiency. Cardiac insufficiency. Incontinence. Impotence. You don't expect so many limitations so soon. You never expect this invincible fatigue which eventually becomes like a fog. Covering everything...And if deterioration, fatigue and despair do arrive, you at least expect to keep your memories. What if What if your memories were erased as well? What will become of me now that my memories are fading?

...

Dr. Serra: I don't mean to trivialize this, Marc, but nowadays, memory loss is not considered a serious problem. Mind Writer allows us to recover memory with a 100 percent accuracy. In fact, millions of people all over the world lead completely normal lives without actually remembering anything.

...

Dr. West: Don't you realize the importance of our achievement? It's a giant step in the history of medicine. You're that giant step, Marc. You'd better prepare yourself. You're gonna be the most famous person on the planet.

...

Marc [voiceover]: I don't know if any of you, maybe some of the oldest, have seen any films about Jesus Christ. I remember being struck once by Lazarus' attitude in the first moments after he was revived by the Messiah. He looked deeply confused. Like he knew he was morally corrupt. As if he hated Jesus for bringing him back to life.

...

Dr. West: A large part of the success of your reanimation was due to the fact that you interrupted your life while still in very good physical shape. That's why you were selected.
[he motions towards a room filled with tanks]
Dr. West: There they are. You spent a while here too, you know.
Marc: What will happen to them?
Dr. West: Well, it's hard to say. Apart from the medical risks involved in each individual case, the time and resources required for reanimation are still quite high. Consider that we'd have to create organs and specific technology for each one of them. Like we did with you. And an enormous team of humans would have to be mobilized.
Marc: Then most of these people will never be reanimated?
Dr. West: Reviving cryonized people are so expensive at the moment that someone would have to have a special interest in them. And be willing to pay for it.


No getting around that. No matter how far into the future.

Marc [voiceover]: What was it? Where did it come from? The need to constantly be seeking some unknown source of fulfillment. The hunger for experiences in life that always made me wanna be everywhere except where I actually was. Life seemed like it was always just around the corner. Or in some brief moment passed that only remained in memory. Never here. Never now. It was a promise always perceived intuitively.

...

Elizabeth: What about being straight with him? It might help him. You know, let's explain to him that his neurons aren't dying and his memories aren't being erased for no reason. That we do know the cause. Let's explain to him that he's boycotting himself.
Dr. Serra: Elizabeth, even if Marc were able to understand, he wouldn't be prepared to take control. And the process might even accelerate if you attempted to throw in the towel and give up altogether. That's not the real issue here. Marc's decision is what matters. He isn't here by chance. He chose to stop living so he could have another life. Well, he certainly feels very guilty about Naomi. No wonder. He sacrificed a remarkable woman for an inadequate dream. Marc is an adult who made his own decisions and has to live with the consequences.

...

Elizabeth [to Marc]: The bosses gave me permission. We can have sex now. But softly. This pill is so you can maintain erection. And this is a desire stimulant. One for each of us. Everybody uses them. I always take them. They increase desire quickly and without side effects.

...

Marc [voiceover]: Before I died, I thought there was nothing after death. Now, I'm sure...Why do we yearn so desperately for life after death? What is it that we want? Perhaps reward for our grief. Or punishment for our sins. No. What we really expect to find is what we already know. What we once had...and lost. If there was something we would turn it into more of the same. The same chaos and the same beauty. The same reward for the same effort. The same tale by the same idiot.

...

Dr. West [to a gathering of potential donors]: Don't worry, we won't be asking you to take out your wallets. You'll gladly hand them to us. Because the future of medicine is in our hands. Because immortality... is only a question of time.

...

Dr. West: Listen, not a single day goes by, not a single moment that I don't remember those people. I recite their names to myself every morning. At first, I was so tortured by each failed reanimation, that it made me wanna quit the project. I'd prepared my resignation over and over again. But at the same time, each failed attempt brought us closer to our goal. Every time, it made more and more sense to try again. Did you think reanimating you would be the result of some miracle? The suffering of those people became a living hell for me. I couldn't sleep anymore. I lost my family when they found out about it. But that was the risk I had to take to get as far as we have. To bring you back to life, Marc.

...

Dr. West: I have done everything I can to treat you and ease your pain, Marc. I can't give you a better life than the one I already have. And you know what? Maybe that's the part you can't take. That the life I gave you isn't the one you were expecting. You wanted paradise for a few thousand dollars, and I only gave you the life you already have, with all its defects and all its limitations.

...

Marc [voiceover]: Can a man be alive only in his mind? Live only based on memories?

...

Marc [voiceover]: Could I live in the past, going over and over it with Mind Writer, filling it in, polishing it, making things up, until it reaches perfection? I don't know. There's only one thing I can see clearly now. Life is nothing more than a state of matter, like a gas or a liquid, a form of molecular organization, and there's nothing transcendent or divine about it. Its only objective is to perpetuate itself through motion, change, adaptation. Life isn't worried about any species, much less any individual. We're nothing more than the chunks of mud it uses as a vehicle. Life is what's scary, not death. That it's always on the verge of extinction. That it exists wherever it shouldn't. And the soul, you may ask. What about the soul? Well, maybe the soul is the bit that gets lost when you freeze the meat and then thawed out again.

...

Marc: All I need is the name of the product and the necessary dosage.
Elizabeth: My job is to assist you in life, not to help you end it.

...

Marc [after drinking the poison]: Remember. Two calls. Yes. First the cyronics lab and one to 911. And cardiac...cardiac massage. Gently.
Naomi: Right.
Marc: Don't wake me up again.

...

Marc [voiceover]: Poor Dr. West. Lazarus wants to return to obscurity. He was right. Just like I wasn't ready to die, I wasn't ready to live like this, either. Like most people from my time, I can't accept anything less than the young, free and sensual world of the advertising Olympus I'd grown accustomed to. The frozen shop window existence. A heaven for skeptics. Therefore, ladies and gentlemen of the future... I hope this will help to clarify my final wish To be nothing again. To disappear. To finally rest in peace. Although, I have a suspicion. It's possible that you might never see this recording. It's possible that Prodigy Health Corporation, after investing so much into Project Lazarus, after putting so much time into me, might not permit this failure....
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:23 am

It's a comedy, but one packed with just enough "social references" to make it a clear reflection on how bizarre and fucked up our post-modern hashtag world can be.

At least from the perspective of an "unhinged stalker". And while Igby goes down to find this all out, Ingrid goes west.

Among other things, we discover what it means to be "Instagram-famous" in a world where pop culture, mass consumption and celebrities are now the new Gods. Think Frank Zappa's "plastic people" on steroids.

Social media it's called. Loved by some, loathed by others, it's everywhere. Indeed, it might even be argued [by me for example] that any number of folks right here are hell-bent on turning ILP into just another rendition of it. Philosophy for the chattering masses. A gab fest for folks who [apparently] have nothing better to do.

It really does come down though to how seriously you take it. Some will completely ignore it of course while others will argue that to the extent we do ignore it, it just grows and grows and grows. And that this will certainly come to have ominous political implications. In Trumpworld, for instance.

Which is all basically ignored here. Well, unless you read between the lines.

IMDb

Bill Murray is listed in the Very Special Thanks section of the credits. In the commentary, Aubrey Plaza says that while she and Murray were filming A Glimpse Inside the Mind of Charles Swan III, he gave her his dark blue sweater when she became ill. She wears it in the bank scene and the tropical restaurant scene.

wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingrid_Goes_West
trailer: https://youtu.be/xP4vD1tWbPU


INGRID GOES WEST [2017]
Written in part and directed by Matt Spicer

Charlotte [voiceover]: Is this real? Hashtag no filter. The couple that yogas together, stays together. Prayer hands emoji. A perfect day for a perfect wedding. Hashtag perfect so glad I married this weirdo. Fluttering heart emoji. Getting the band back together. Hashtag all the line. Yup! That's how we roll. Princess emoji. And the festivities begin. Twin hearts emoji. Fairy tale wedding. Hashtag about last night. Happy to be sharing this day with all my favorite humans. Hashtag blessed. The couple that yogas together stays together. A perfect day for a perfect wedding. Princess emoji. Yup! That's how we roll. All my favorite humans. Hashtag blessed. Hashtag all the line. Hashtag about last night. Hashtag perfect. Fairy tale wedding. Hashtag blessed.

...

Ingrid [in a mental institution]: "Dear Charlotte, I want you to know how sorry I am about what happened. I think having this time apart has been really good for me. I'm learning how to be present... How to live in the moment..."

...

Ingrid: Do you take cash?
Dan: Are you an escort or something?
Ingrid: No.
Dan [looking into her bag filled with money]: Fuck! Are you a drug dealer?
Ingrid: No.
Dan: Okay, for real what you do? You got a backpack full of money. Suspicious.
Ingrid: Yeah, if you really wanna know, my mom just died and left me a bunch of money.

...

Waiter: What's your biggest emotional wound?
Ingrid: What?
Waiter [pointing to a sing on the wall]: It's our question of the day.
Ingrid: Oh.
Waiter: Mine's actually my relationship with my dad.
Ingrid: I'm good, thanks.

...

Ezra: Maybe, you're confusing her with one of your insta-fans.
Taylor: He's just giving me shit because I happen to engage with people on social media like the rest of the known universe, and my husband has a chronic case of technophobia. He still uses a flip phone.
Ingrid: No!
Taylor: Yeah.
Exra: Stop. Stop. I just prefer to keep certain parts of my life, private. That's it. That's all.

...

Indrid [to Ezra]: Do you take cash?

...

Ingrid: Dan's gonna kill me.
Taylor: Okay, you need to relax, it's just a scratch. And I bet he won't even notice it.


Cut to the "scratch".

Taylor: I'm sorry, I'm like, talking at you. You probably think I'm awful.
Ingrid: No. You're perfect.
Taylor: Yeah, perfectly fucked up.
Ingrid: No. You are, by far the coolest, most interesting person I've ever met. I'm serious.

...

Dan: Is there anything else I need to know about Ingrid?
Ingrid: We might have done all of the cocaine that we found in the...

...

Ingrid: Can we please just start over and pretend it never happened?
Dan: Like a reboot?
Ingrid: Okay! Yes. Like a reboot.

...

Ingrid: Why do you like Batman so much?
Dan: What's not to like about Batman?
Ingrid: I'm sorry, it's just, i don't understand. He's just another superhero like spiderman or superman.
Dan: That's where you are wrong. Batman is the world's greatest detective. Nothing radioactive bit him. He's not from another planet. He's just like you or I. All Batman's powers come from within him. He had enough will and enough focus to make himself greater than what he was.

...

Ingrid: Fuck me, Bruce. Fuck me, Bruce.
Dan: Tell me Gotham needs me.
Ingrid: Gotham needs you. Now.

...

Ingrid: Also, no Batman talk.
Dan What am I supposed to talk about? I don't know these people.
Ingrid: Something cool, like food or clothes or Joan Didion.

...

Nicky: My sister says you're obsessed with Batman.
Dan [awkwardly]: Yea-- yeah.
Nicky: Wow, get the fuck out! Oh, god, why didn't you tell me? I fucking love Batman!!

...

Ingrid: You okay?
Ezra: I'm not an artist. I'm a fucking charlatan.
Ingrid: No, you're not. Your paintings are awesome.
Ezra: You're my only sale.
Ingrid: But Taylor said they were really popular.
Ezra: She would say that, wouldn't she? Yeah. Everything's the best, with her. "Have you been to this new restaurant? It's the best!" "Have you tried these... These new clothes are the best!" "It's the best! It's the best! It's the best!" It's not the fucking best. It's fucking exhausting.
Ingrid: You know what, I actually kind of know what you mean. When we were in Joshua tree, she told me this secret, and she told me not to tell anyone. But I walked in on her telling Harley the same, exact thing earlier.
Ezra: What secret?

...

Ingrid: Taylor has a plan to buy the house next door to you guys, and turn it into some hotel slash store. And she wants to call it "desert door."
Ezra: Desert-- desert door?
Ingrid: Yeah. It's a reference to her favorite book, you know, The Deer Park.
Ezra: The Deer Park is my favorite book. Taylor's never even read it.

...

Nicky: You're fucked. I'm gonna make a deal with you. I'm not gonna give you your phone back. But I'm willing to rent it out to you. For a very small fee.
Infrid: How much?
Nicky: Five thousand a month.

...

Ingrid ]to some kids in a parking lot]: Excuse me.
Kid: Yeah?
Ingrid: I'll give one of you 200 bucks if you punch me in the face. I'm serious.

...

Taylor [on the phone to Ingrid]: Um, this is gonna sound weird, but have you heard from Nicky at all?

...

Ezra [on the phone]: Nicky told us everything about the phone, the kidnapping. If he hadn't tried to blackmail you, you'd be in jail right now. You understand?
Ingrid: Ezra, wait.
Ezra: Don't call here again.

...

Taylor [phone voice]: Hey. You've reached Taylor. Leave a message.
Ingrid: Hey, it's me, again. Remember me, Ingrid? Ingrid, patron of the arts. Ingrid, with the truck. Ingrid, who saved your fucking dog's life. The least you can do is pick up your fucking phone, you bitch!!

...

Ezra [on the phone]: Listen to me, you psycho. If you don't stop this shit right fucking now I'm calling the fucking cops. Do you understand? It's three in the fucking morning. Just leave us the fuck alone!!

...

Ingrid: Why are you acting like that? It's just me, Ingrid.
Taylor: I'm sorry. Are you...are you actually insane? 'Cause you do know Nicky almost died because of you, right?
Ingrid: I thought we were friends. We had so much fun together.
Taylor: Oh, my god. Ingrid...we were never friends because everything about you is such a fucking lie. You just are some weird freak that found me on instagram. And that's basically all this has been.
Ingrid: Everything about me is a lie.
Taylor: Okay, well...what?
Ingrid: Everything about you is a fucking lie. It is. Your brother is a drug addict. Your husband is an alcoholic who fucking hates you. And you pretend to be some cool L.A. chick, but you're full of shit. Ezra told me everything. He told me that when you moved here, you were lame and basic, and you had no friends. You were just like me.

...

Taylor: You know what, Ingrid, um...I was, uh, actually never like you...because you are a sad and pathetic, and very sick person, and you need professional help.
Nicky: Game over.

...

Ingrid [making a suicide video]: Hey guys! It's me, Ingrid. I've never done this before, but...I didn't have anyone else to talk to so I figured, why not. I just wanted to tell you guys that basically everything I've posted in the last couple of months is a total lie. I haven't been living, some like, glamorous life in L.A. I'm just...a loser. I'm pathetic. And I know there's something wrong with me, but I don't know how to fix it, and I don't know how to change. And I just... Don't think I can change. So maybe I'm just...maybe this is just who I am. And maybe I'm just tired of trying to make people like me. I'm tired of pretending like, someone I'm not. And I'm tired of being alone. And I'm just...just tired of being me so...I just...feel like... If you don't have anyone to share anything with, then what'd the point of living? Yeah, so I guess I'm just making this video... So you guys can see the real me. At least once.


Then she swallows the pills.

Dan [to Ingrid recovering in the hispital]: Your little suicide video went viral. Your face is all over the Internet. Look at them. Thousands, and thousands and thousands. You're an inspiration, babe. You have a hashtag. "Feel better soon". "Praying for your recovery" "You're too good to do that to yourself" "I gotta tell you, you're fucking beautiful" "you're a hero".

...

Ingrid [voiceover]: Hashtag I am Ingrid.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:19 pm

It again.

And, of course, it comes at night. So, it's only a matter of imagining whether or not it can come out at night when you're around.

Can you imagine yourself in a situation more or less like it?

Clearly, to the extent that you can, it becomes all the more frightening. And given the potential for catastrophic world wide epidemics that pop up in the news from time to time --- ebola, sars, bird flu etc. -- there's really no telling what is down the pike.

The plot is familiar. A small group of people [a family in this case] are in full-fledge survival mode. Then out of the blue they have company. Outsiders. What to do? Not only do they now have the outbreak to deal with, but must come to terms with any and all of the changes that the new arrivals bring with them. Who to trust? What to believe?

And, of course, this: What is the right thing to do? A whole new world, a whole new perspective on virtue. The age-old dilemma in films of this sort: there's what you want to do; there's what you have to do. And then the part in which the reality you construct inside your head may or may not be in sync with whatever is in fact really going on. But, as we all know, our behaviors are invariably predicated on what we think we know is real. So, in the end, it often comes down to being able to demonstrate to others why they should think what you do. In other words, being right may or may not save the day.

So, what's scariest of all can sometimes be not what you see, but what you don't see. Or what you can't see.

Lots of ambiguity here. What's real? What's not? Here is one attempt to explain it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1fkRM8D0-A

IMDb

The painting featured in the movie at the beginning is titled "The Triumph of Death".

The cast and crew of the film signed a non-disclosure agreement that forbids them ever revealing what "comes" at night.


at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Comes_at_Night
trailer: https://youtu.be/6YOYHCBQn9g


IT COMES AT NIGHT [2017]
Written and directed by Trey Edward Shults

Sarah: Can you hear me? Dad, can you hear me?
[Bud nods a weary yes]
Sarah: You don't need to fight it. You can just let it all go. Everything's okay.
[cue Sarah speaking with a mask on]
Sarah: I love you, dad. I do. I'm so sorry. Oh, god...


Is this "it"?

Paul: He has to be involved...in everything from now on...everything. If he's not, then we're doing him a disservice.
Sarah: I don't care, Paul...he's 17. He shouldn't have been there. He shouldn't have seen that.

...

Paul: He's gonna be fine. Everything's gonna be okay.
Sarah: You don't honestly believe that? Do you?


We don't.

Paul: I just wanna talk. And I want honest answers. If you give me honest answers, then this water yours. Understand? Why'd you break into my house?
Will [tied to a tree]: I promise...I promise you, I... I didn't think anyone was in it. There's no lights, and things boarded up. It looked abandoned from the outside.
Paul: What were you looking for?
Will: Water...supplies, anything. My family... I have a family... My wife and our boy in the woods.


And on and on: Trust him? Believe him?

Paul: Do you have any idea what's going on out there?
Will: No. As soon as people in the city started getting sick, we got out, got as far away as possible. If there's a grid left, I don't even know how to be on it.
Paul: So you're out there driving 80 miles, and you didn't see anything?
Will: No. We didn't see anything or anyone.

...

Will: Look, look at my eyes. I'm telling you the truth. I never would've broken in like that if I thought the house was occupied, but I was desperate. I got no hard feelings at you. You did what you had to, you had to protect your family. But if you can spare some water for my family, i can trade for it. Got food.
Paul: How much?
Will: Got plenty to trade for.
Paul: I'm asking how much?
Will: Two goats, six chickens, and some canned food as well.
Paul: Are the animals healthy?
Will: Yes, sir. I promise you, if you need food, I have it. My family is all that matters to me. I know you can understand that. You're a good person. You're just trying to protect your family. But don't let mine die cause of it. Help me, and I can help you.

...

Sarah: I think if he does have a family out there that we should consider bringing them back here.
Paul: That's a big jump. Everything he said could be a lie.
Sarah: I know that.
Paul: I know that you want to believe him.
Sarah: Is that wrong?
Paul: We just gotta be smart about it, we can't be emotional...
Sarah: I'm not being emotional. He knows where we live now. We can't just let him go. The more people we have here, the better we can defend it. He found us, other people will too. They could bring the animals here. We wouldn't have to just trade for them. It's the smartest option.

...

Paul [to Sarah]: I'm not bringing anyone back here until I know they're not sick. It took bud less than a day to show signs. I'll wait there three to be certain. You be strong. Don't go outside unless you absolutely have to. And if I don't come back...don't come looking for me.

...

Paul: Good people, huh?
Travis: Yes...I like them here.
Paul: Just keep it in perspective, okay? I don't need to tell you but...you can't trust anyone but family. As good as they seem. Just don't forget that, okay?
Travis: Yeah.

...

Paul: I think Will and I should be the only ones who go outside for a while. We don't know what made Stanley sick, it coulda been an animal, another person, anything. Travis...you didn't go inside the room before we got there, correct?
Travis: Positive.
Will: You just opened the door, you didn't go in?
Travis: I didn't touch the door.
Paul: What?
Travis: It was already open.
Sarah: The door was open when you got there?
Travis: Yeah.
Sarah: Then who opened the door?

...

Paul: Travis...come here. I just want you to look me in the eye and tell me that you're...telling the truth. You didn't touch the door?
Travis: No.
Paul: Okay, did you touch him? Andrew? Did you touch him?
Travis: Yeah, I mean...yeah. I held his hand and I...and I brought him to his room.
Paul: And you weren't wearing gloves and mask, right?
Travis: I mean, dad...why would I wear them inside the house?

...

Paul: What's going on?
Travis: It's Andrew. I think he might be sick.
Paul: What? What are you talking about?
Travis: He was crying and I was listening in the attic. They said they need to leave.

...

Travis: What do you want to do?
Sarah: We don't have many options.
Travis: What does that mean?
Sarah: If they want to leave, they're gonna want to take our food and water.
Travis: No, why can't we give them what's fair, and take them back to the house they were at. Sarah: Where do you think they're going if they run out?
Paul: You haven't seen people when they get desperate.
Travis: They wouldn't come back here and put us at risk like that.
Sarah: We don't know that.
Travis: Come on!
Sarah: We don't know these people. We don't know if any of what they said is even true. This is the man that tried to break into our house.
Travis: Cause he was trying to get food and water for his family. Dad would've done the same thing. I don't think we could take the chance. I don't think we can risk it.
Travis: You don't get it. If they're sick...then I am too.

...

Will [pointing a gun at Paul who's wearing a gas mask]: Why is your mask on? Nobody's sick here. Take it off. Take the fucking mask off!!

...

Will: Listen, Paul, I'm sorry, okay? We appreciate everything that you've done, but we want to leave. We're all packed up. I know how you are. But if you go near my wife or my kid, I'll end your fuckin' life. Listen...we just want what's fair. We want enough food and enough water, then we're gonna go, and you're never gonna see us again.

...

Paul: Stop! I said stop!
[Paul shoots and kills Andrew]
Kim: No! My baby! My baby! Nooooo! You killed my baby! You wanna kill me? Kill me!
[Paul shoots and kills Kim]

...

Sarah [looking down at Travis who is clearly infected]: Oh, Travis. Travis, it's okay, sweetie. You're gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay...you can go. You can go.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby unknowing » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:29 pm

I love Westword on HBO for it's philosophy elements.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:19 pm

Imagine...

You are a doctor at a small clinic. One night the door bell rings. You decide not to see who it is. But the next day you find out the woman who rang the bell is found dead. Was she murdered? You feel guilty. You might have saved her life. You are now determined to find out all that you can about this woman.

In other words, something happens and things changes. Do one thing, one set of consequences, do something else and an entirely different set of consequences.

These things happen all the time to us. In contexts more or less dramatic. The dots get connected. But how much understanding of the relationships do we really have; and how much control do we have over them?

And then the question of identity. Who is this young woman? What happened to her? Why was she at the clinic? And then this: Will she be put in a box and buried in a potter's field...without so much as a name to put on the marker?

We do know that she is an immigrant. And a sex worker.

And here the two worlds collide. The world of the caring and compassionate and civilized doctor and the world of what can only be described as the underbelly of society. And here we bump into any number of scumbags willing to exploit any number of desperate victims. You wonder if, as part of the civilized world yourself, you would go this far.

To make a difference as they say.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unknown_Girl
trailer: https://youtu.be/4TYCCPYdGTw


THE UNKNOWN GIRL [La Fille Inconnue] 2017
Written and directed by Jean-Pierre Dardenne, Luc Dardenne

Jenny [a young doctor]: I want you to learn one thing, just one. Learn to make a good diagnosis. If a patients suffering moves you, you make a bad one.
Julien [an intern]: I couldn't help it.
Jenny: A good doctor has control over his emotions.

...

Jenny [after the intern turns in response to the door bell]: Don't go, we've run over by an hour....Someone who comes this late doesn't care how tired we are.
Julien: Maybe it was urgent.
Jenny: Then they'd have rung twice. Don't let patients tire you, or you won't make a proper diagnosis.

...

Jenny: Was it something serious?
Ben [police detective]: I woman was found dead by the river, near the building site.

...

Detective [after Jenny watches a video of an obviously frightened young black girl ringing the clinic buzzer and pounding on the door]: Do you recognize her?
Jenny: No....She's so young.
Detective: What could have made her come back to ring the bell?
Jenny: Maybe the light from the waiting room.
Detective: We thought maybe she had been there before.

...

Jenny [to Julien]: I felt like you did when the bell rang. I wanted to open the door too...but I don't know what happened. I stopped you from going just because you wanted to. To get the upper hand.


Yes, the complexities embedded in consequences.

Doctor Habron [to Jenny]: You couldn't know, but you should have let her in.

...

Jenny: I can't accept the idea they'll bury her with no name. No one will know it's her in the ground. If I'd opened the door, she'd be alive, like me.
Doctor Habron: True, but then again you're not the one who killed her.

...

Jenny [to Bryan]: Imagine your mother is found dead, far from here, without any ID on her. They'd bury her but couldn't let anyone know. You'd never know. You'd keep waiting for her to come home...Had you seen that girl before?

...

Jenny: Trust me. I won't tell any one.
Bryan: Not my mom or my dad?
Jenny: No one.
Bryan: I saw her. She was sucking off an old man in a camper van.

...

Mr. Lambert: I have nothing to say to you.
Jenny: Did your son tell you not to talk? I just want to know that girl's name, nothing else. I swear I won't tell anyone. I can keep a secret. I'm a doctor. I beg you, Mr. Lambert. I beg you. If you were in the van and she said something that might tell me her name.

...

Jenny: You can still change your mind. Remember your first day? You said you always dreamed of being a doctor.
Julien: When I saw that kid having his fit, shaking all over...I saw myself when my dad hit me. All I got from him was beatings. I wanted to be a doctor to treat him or to treat myself, I don't know. Or to be a better doctor than ours who thought I bruised myself playing.

...

Father of Bryan: Yoy saw Bryan and hasseled him again about that girl. Please stop seeing him and talking to him.
Mother of Byran: His indigestion is back.
Jenny: I met him by chance. I wanted to see his friend.
Father: I told you he had nothing to do with it. We're changing doctors as well.
Mother: I understand that girl is haunting you. As you said, you feel guilty. But you can't make our son sick over it.

...

Jenny: Did you go back to check her?
Bryan's father: No. I thought that she had just fainted...that she'd wake up.
Jenny: The autopsy says she didn't die from impact, but from blood lost while unconscious.
Bryan's father: You mean I let her die? Is that it? Who do you think I am?! Don't look down at me! I can't sleep because of that girl. She's in my head all the time....If you'd opened your door, it would never have happened.
Jenny: She's in my head all the time too.

...

Jenny: I won't tell anyone. But you have to tell the police.
Bryan's father: No. I can't. Everyone will know. I'll lose my job. I'll go to jail. I'll lose everything....Why would I ruin my life?
Jenny: Because she's asking us to.
Bryan's father: Who?
Jenny: The girl.
Bryan's father: She doesn't care. She's dead.
Jenny: If she was dead, she wouldn't be in our heads.

...

Cybercafe cashier [after a long pause]: Before going to the police I wanted to thank you for coming to the cybercafe and showing me the photo....the photo of my sister. Because you came, I felt ashamed and made up my mind. I was afraid my guy would put me back on the streets. He gave me a fake passport so the police wouldn't know he made Felicie work. She wasn't 18 yet.
Jenny: Her name was Felicie?
Cybercafe cashier: Yes. Felicie Koumba.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:50 pm

"Inspired by actual events".

Then it depends on how far back you go. You can go all the way back to the white Europeans "discovering America" and then, over the course of the centuries, reconfiguring any number of "Native American" communities into reservations.

Then any number of conflicting political narratives will start in on grappling with the consequences of that.

On the other hand, there is always the intersection between this and the actual lives individual men and women go about forging in the course of sustaining themselves from day to day. What parts are embedded historically in the inevitable political baggage and what parts are really only your own damn fault?

And this is basically the party line embedded in the liberal and conservative narratives. Folks are either the victims of society and in need of our assistance or they are refusing to take responsibility for their own lives. Their own choices. Their own behaviors. It always seems to be either one or the other. And hardly ever a complex intertwining of both.

Here though the chararacters are portrayed as "fully developed human beings rather than as stereotypes." And that does introduce complexity into the plot. And that introduces ambiguity. And then there's the character embedded in the land itself. The reservation. What might be called the "outback" in other places. And It is far, far removed from what an FBI agent stationed in Las Vegas is used to.

Look for the chaos [and sometimes the utter confusion] entangled in "jurisdiction".

IMDb

During the course of the shoot, writer-director Taylor Sheridan was visited on set by some Shoshone tribal leaders who astonished him with the revelation that, at that very time, there were 12 unsolved murders of young women on a reservation of about 6,000 people. Due to a 1978 landmark government ruling (Oliphant v. Suquamish), the Supreme Court stripped tribes of the right to arrest and prosecute non-Indians who commit crimes on Indian land. If neither victim nor perpetrator are Indian, a county or state officer must make the arrest. If the perpetrator is non-Indian and the victim an enrolled member, only a federally-certified agent has that right. If the opposite is true, a tribal officer can make the arrest, but the case must still go to federal court. This quagmire creates a jurisdictional nightmare by choking up the legal process on reservations to such a degree, many criminals go unpunished indefinitely for serious crimes.

The quote that concludes the film ("While missing person statistics are compiled for every other demographic, none exist for Native American women.") isn't entirely true. There is one more demographic that the FBI has always refused to compile statistics for: missing children.


trivia at IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5362988/tri ... =ttqu_sa_1
at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_River_(film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/zN9PDOoLAfg


WIND RIVER [2017]
Written and directed by Taylor Sheridan

Wilma: Don't let Casey out of your sight on the Rez, okay?
Cory: Like I said, I'm gonna leave him with your folks while I scout.
Wilma: You know what I mean.
Cory: Yeah, I do. I won't.

...

Cory: Put your hand upon his nose. Let him smell you and breath you. Let him know you. He will love you forever. Hey...so what do you think of that, son?
Casey: That was pretty cowboy, huh?
Cory: No, son. That was all Arapahoe.

...

Cory [to Dan his father in law]: That's what the tracks say. Momma's teaching her kits how to hunt. She's teaching 'em on livestock. Momma just got her whole family killed.

...

Ben [to Cory of Jane]: See what they sent us?

...

Cory: She ran until she dropped...here. See the pool of blood where her face hit the snow? Now it gets twenty below here at night. So if you fill your lungs up with that cold air. When you're running....it could freeze em up. Your lungs fill up with blood, you start coughing it up So...wherever she came from, she ran all the way here. Her lungs burst here. She curled up in that tree line drowned up in her own blood.
Jane: How far do you think someone can run barefoot out here?
Cory: Oh...I don't know. How to gauge someone's will to live...especially in these conditions? But I knew that girl. She was a fighter. So no matter how far you think she ran...I can guarantee you she ran farther.

...

Randy [the M.E.]: This is very prosecutable as a murder. Clearly she wouldn't have been running through the snow if she hadn't been attacked, but I can't list the cause of death as a homicide.
Jane: And I can't get an FBI team to the reservation unless it's listed as a homicide. I'm not here to solve this. I'm here to obtain a cause of death and then send a team here that can.
Randy: Look, present the rape, present the assault and I'm sure....
Jane: Those aren't under the jurisdiction of the FBI. Those fall to the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

...

Jane: I don't mean to offend you. I'm trying to understand the dynamic here, Mr. Hanson.
Martin [father of the victim]: Why is it that whenever you people try to help us, you always insult us first, huh?

...

Cory [who had lost his own daughter]: I went to a grief seminar in Casper. You know that? The counselor came up to me after the seminar...sat down next to me. He said something that stuck with me. I don't know of it's what he said. Or it's how he said it. He says, I got some good news and I got some bad news. The bad news is you're never gonna be the same. You'll never be whole. Not ever again. You lost your daughter. Nothing's ever going to replace that. The good news is as soon as you accept that and let yourself suffer you'll allow yourself to visit her in your mind. You remember all the love that she gave. All the joy she knew. The point is, Martin you can't steer from the pain. If you do you'll rob yourself. You'll rob yourself of every memory of her. Every last one. From the first step to her last smile. You kill 'em all. Just take the pain, Martin. Do you hear me? You take it. It's the only way to keep her with you.
Martin: I'm just tired, Cory. I'm just so tired of fighting this life.

...

Jane: Shouldn't we wait for back up?
Ben: This isn't the land of waiting for back up. This is the land of you're on your own.

...

Chip: She said "was"...what did she mean by was? What Did She Mean By Was. WHAT DID SHE MEAN BY WAS?!!
Cory: She means I found her raped and killed right over there, son.

...

Jane: The two we have in custody say anything?
Ben: They ain't the talking kind, Jane. These kids...they expect to go to prison. Hell, I think they look forward to it. You know? Three hots, and a cot, and free cable? Anything is better then being here the way they see it.

...

Cory: I'm not going to stand here and tell you that life's fair, 'cause it ain't. To either of us. But you know, what do we go? This land is all we got left.
Chip: What is this "we" shit...? Only thing native about you is your ex-wife and a daughter you couldn't protect.

...

Chip: You think this is who I wanted to be? I get so mad. I want to fight the whole world. You got any idea what's that feel like.
Cory: I do. I decided to fight the feeling instead. Know why? Cause I figured the world would win.

...

Cory [to Chip]: You gonna lecture me about protecting people? While you deal the shit that's killing em? Unlike most people, you had every chance to get the hell out if that's what you wanted. You got the Army. You got College. Whatever is your choice. Look what you choose. Look what you chose. God damn you.

...

Cory [to Ben]: We don't catch wolves looking at where they might be. You look where they've been. They've been right here.

...

Cory: That's a picture of my daughter Emily. She passed three years ago.
Jane: I'm sorry.
Cory: You want to know how, don't you?
Jane: I do, but...
Cory: Makes two of us.

...

Jane: Go get him.
Cory: I won't bring him back. You have to know that.
Jane: I do. Go get him.

...

Cory: Do you know where we are?
Pete: No.
Cory: Gannet Peak. Highest mountain in Wyoming. On the hottest day in August, still there's a foot of snow. Today, too cold to snow.

...

Pete [to Cory]: What the fuck? Where the fuck are my boots?!!

...

Cory: Hey, I need you to be honest with me, right? You get drunk, get lonely. Then what you get? You did it. Just be man and say it. Say, "I raped her."
Pete: I raped her. I raped her...yeah!
Cory: Her boyfriend...when he got in your way did you beat him to death?
[Pete nods]
Cory: Look a nod's not gonna cut it, ok? I need you to say it.
Pete: We beat him. We made him dead.
Cory: Okay. I'm gonna cut you lose. You're free to go.

...

Cory: I'm a man of my word. You have told the truth. Let me give you a chance. Let me give you the same chance that she got.
Pete: What chance did she get?
Cory: If you can make it to that highway, you're free man.
Pete: Where is the highway?
Cory: You know how far that drill camp was from where I found Natalie's body? 6 miles, bare foot.

...

Jane: You saved my life.
Cory: No. Jane, you're a tough woman. You saved your own life.
Jane: We both should be honest. I got lucky.
Cory: Ah. well, luck don't live out here. Luck lives in the city. Don't live out here. It lives whether you get hit by a bus or not. Whether your bank is robbed or not. Or someone's on the damn cell phone when he comes up to a crosswalk. That's luck. Out here you survive or you surrender. That's determined by your strength and bare spirit. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer. They kill the weak ones. You fought for your life Jane. And now you get to walk away with it.

...

Cory: What's with the paint?
Martin: It's my death face.
Cory: Is that right? How would you know what that is?
Martin: I don't. Just made it up.

...

Martin: I heard about what happened. I heard there's one still missing.
Cory: No. No one's missing.
Martin: How did he go out?
Cory: With a whimper.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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