So, what books are you reading right now?

Share and discuss.

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby Gobbo » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:04 am

If you want to hear, from their mouths, the philosophy of the ruling elite, then these would be a good place to start.



http://www.scribd.com/doc/3421664/Betwe ... Brzezinski
Between Two Ages by Ziggy Brezinski -- Obama's head adviser.

http://static.scribd.com/docs/ik49d3hz4exyx.pdf
The Grand Chessboard by Ziggy B

http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/md/index.htm
Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike (The esoteric roots of Masonry explained)

http://www.archive.org/details/TheFirstGlobalRevolution
The First Global Revolution by the Club of Rome Thinktank. (This one is interesting because it shows how the original political plan for the NWO was to create a 'global cooling' propaganda but they later realized it would be easier logistically (chemtrails) to heat the earth rather than cool it.)

http://static.scribd.com/docs/6ybexob7tuueu.pdf
The Anglo-American Establishment by Carrol Quigley (The CFR's historian, who pretty much explains the 'real' history)

http://static.scribd.com/docs/a7ugfcn1go4ln.pdf
Tragedy and Hope by Carrol Quigley (His thoughts on the whole thing)

http://static.scribd.com/docs/85krglc8z8w4z.pdf
The Next Million Years by Charles Galton Darwin (Back in this guy's time they only thought they would predict the next million years or so.)
User avatar
Gobbo
Choronzon
 
Posts: 11111
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:23 am
Location: The Belly

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby Phoebus » Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:23 am

felix dakat wrote:THE POLITICAL MIND: Why You Can’t Understand 21st-Century Politics With an 18th-Century Brain.
by George Lakoff. A linguist and cognitive scientist Lakoff analyzes why conservatives have been better that liberals at influencing public opinion for the past 30 years. He recommends progressives use cognitive science to get better at it.


This is going on my reading list
Doomed to see what is illuminated, never the light.
User avatar
Phoebus
 
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:13 am

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby Jakob » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:16 pm

Old_Gobbo wrote:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3421664/Betwe ... Brzezinski
Between Two Ages by Ziggy Brezinski -- Obama's head adviser.

http://static.scribd.com/docs/ik49d3hz4exyx.pdf
The Grand Chessboard by Ziggy B

http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/md/index.htm
Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike (The esoteric roots of Masonry explained)

http://www.archive.org/details/TheFirstGlobalRevolution
The First Global Revolution by the Club of Rome Thinktank. (This one is interesting because it shows how the original political plan for the NWO was to create a 'global cooling' propaganda but they later realized it would be easier logistically (chemtrails) to heat the earth rather than cool it.)

http://static.scribd.com/docs/6ybexob7tuueu.pdf
The Anglo-American Establishment by Carrol Quigley (The CFR's historian, who pretty much explains the 'real' history)

http://static.scribd.com/docs/a7ugfcn1go4ln.pdf
Tragedy and Hope by Carrol Quigley (His thoughts on the whole thing)

http://static.scribd.com/docs/85krglc8z8w4z.pdf
The Next Million Years by Charles Galton Darwin (Back in this guy's time they only thought they would predict the next million years or so.)

The Brzezinski books are definitely worth reading.
I would question the suggestion you make here that these books form one story.
Doesn't there appear to be a rift between the suggestions of parastitic, occult banker control on the one hand, and political ideology on the other?

I side with Brzezinski, in looking at it from an interest in preservation of global order. There is one superpower, and it must remain this way, otherwise the world becomes unpredictable. If 'they' would let 'us' control the world - that is, 'set it free', then, so Brzezisnki is convinced, the cause of our ancestors will be lost, and the mainland of the Earth, Eurasia, will simply fall prey to another total war.

Not a bad analysis per se.
That being said, there is no doubt a lot of nasty stuff against us going on besides.
I simply wonder where these lines intersect.
Image
For behold, all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals
User avatar
Jakob
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5973
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:23 pm
Location: look at my suit

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby Gobbo » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:51 pm

I would question the suggestion you make here that these books form one story.
Doesn't there appear to be a rift between the suggestions of parastitic, occult banker control on the one hand, and political ideology on the other?


Political propaganda is the play, and all the world is a stage. I've realized if you truly understand how money works then you cannot help but come to that conclusion. It's a farce. All of it. Money and politics link up perfectly, my friend.
User avatar
Gobbo
Choronzon
 
Posts: 11111
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:23 am
Location: The Belly

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby Jakob » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:38 pm

I'm not denying that money and political power are in many instances virtually the same, we can agree on that. But what's missing in the puzzle here is the link between Zbigniews political philosophy, because you can call it that, and the malicious will to power of private societies.
In my eyes there's no direct link, which leads me to believe the only link is money. Zbigniew & Obama need the bankers, but they do not share an agenda.
Image
For behold, all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals
User avatar
Jakob
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5973
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:23 pm
Location: look at my suit

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby felix dakat » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:22 pm

Phoebus wrote:
felix dakat wrote:THE POLITICAL MIND: Why You Can’t Understand 21st-Century Politics With an 18th-Century Brain.
by George Lakoff. A linguist and cognitive scientist Lakoff analyzes why conservatives have been better that liberals at influencing public opinion for the past 30 years. He recommends progressives use cognitive science to get better at it.


This is going on my reading list


It's a fun read.

User avatar
felix dakat
Janitor
 
Posts: 8161
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 am
Location: east of eden

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby felix dakat » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:23 pm

Jakob wrote:
Old_Gobbo wrote:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3421664/Betwe ... Brzezinski
Between Two Ages by Ziggy Brezinski -- Obama's head adviser.

http://static.scribd.com/docs/ik49d3hz4exyx.pdf
The Grand Chessboard by Ziggy B

http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/md/index.htm
Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike (The esoteric roots of Masonry explained)

http://www.archive.org/details/TheFirstGlobalRevolution
The First Global Revolution by the Club of Rome Thinktank. (This one is interesting because it shows how the original political plan for the NWO was to create a 'global cooling' propaganda but they later realized it would be easier logistically (chemtrails) to heat the earth rather than cool it.)

http://static.scribd.com/docs/6ybexob7tuueu.pdf
The Anglo-American Establishment by Carrol Quigley (The CFR's historian, who pretty much explains the 'real' history)

http://static.scribd.com/docs/a7ugfcn1go4ln.pdf
Tragedy and Hope by Carrol Quigley (His thoughts on the whole thing)

http://static.scribd.com/docs/85krglc8z8w4z.pdf
The Next Million Years by Charles Galton Darwin (Back in this guy's time they only thought they would predict the next million years or so.)

The Brzezinski books are definitely worth reading.
I would question the suggestion you make here that these books form one story.
Doesn't there appear to be a rift between the suggestions of parastitic, occult banker control on the one hand, and political ideology on the other?

I side with Brzezinski, in looking at it from an interest in preservation of global order. There is one superpower, and it must remain this way, otherwise the world becomes unpredictable. If 'they' would let 'us' control the world - that is, 'set it free', then, so Brzezisnki is convinced, the cause of our ancestors will be lost, and the mainland of the Earth, Eurasia, will simply fall prey to another total war.

Not a bad analysis per se.
That being said, there is no doubt a lot of nasty stuff against us going on besides.
I simply wonder where these lines intersect.


Brzezinski--geopolitical realist?

User avatar
felix dakat
Janitor
 
Posts: 8161
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 am
Location: east of eden

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby Gobbo » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:05 pm

I'm not denying that money and political power are in many instances virtually the same, we can agree on that. But what's missing in the puzzle here is the link between Zbigniews political philosophy, because you can call it that, and the malicious will to power of private societies.


Then read the books.

If you had I can't see why you would ask this. Quiggley and Pike both explain what you're asking.
User avatar
Gobbo
Choronzon
 
Posts: 11111
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:23 am
Location: The Belly

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby Oran » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:56 pm

I'm half-way through War and Peace. It's a better novel on it's own terms than anything else I've encountered. It says more about revered mediocrity elsewhere, but that doesn't detract from the efficiency of ideas, intent, and creativity in the book. It's good. My problem is that I readily understand intellectual ideas and therefore am bored by works that rely on them. More my thing is style and rhythm and emotional exploration, because I have the emotional capacity of a five year old, and they fascinate me. I am also reading The Woman Who Waited by Andrei Makine for the second time. Which is more my thing.
I'm sure there are pros and cons to having your ass handed to you, however, if anything, it does present a quite unique perspective.
User avatar
Oran
 
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:44 am
Location: Ireland.

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby jonquil » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:28 pm

I like Tolstoy myself. In both War and Peace and in Anna Karenina, I see him as a novelist of the aristocratic social order and the difficulty for the individual stuck in that order looking for a way out. AK shows that there was no way out for a woman, but for a man suffering the aristocratic malaise there was the pull of the land with its peasant mystique: for Pierre Bezukhov in W&P and for Levin in AK. This does seem like a bit of romantic fantasy coming from the aristocratic point of view, and even Tolstoy himself had it in spades. The question then is, is it really possible for someone from the landowning class to really understand life from the position of a peasant, or just to imagine it in some sort of idyllic way since being an owner of "souls" (as serfs were euphemistically called) puts one in a difficult position where everything is handed to you. If you don't really have to work for a living and find yourself stuck in a rut of dissolution and gambling, life on the other side of the whip might look pretty good, particularly if you have a sore conscience and a need for some sort of moral cleansing. It's just that the peasants might not see it quite the same way. This is in essence the quintessential Tolstoy book.
"Sur le volcan ne pousse pas l'herbe" (Grass does not grow on a volcano). - Ivor Cutler on his bald pate
User avatar
jonquil
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3546
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:57 am
Location: Greenest city in the world!

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby felix dakat » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:49 pm

Churro the Viscous wrote:Image


I read this a long time ago. Isn't this kind of Dostoevsky's testimony to the joys of misanthropy?

User avatar
felix dakat
Janitor
 
Posts: 8161
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 am
Location: east of eden

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby felix dakat » Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:05 pm

Oran wrote:I'm half-way through War and Peace. It's a better novel on it's own terms than anything else I've encountered. It says more about revered mediocrity elsewhere, but that doesn't detract from the efficiency of ideas, intent, and creativity in the book. It's good. My problem is that I readily understand intellectual ideas and therefore am bored by works that rely on them. More my thing is style and rhythm and emotional exploration, because I have the emotional capacity of a five year old, and they fascinate me. I am also reading The Woman Who Waited by Andrei Makine for the second time. Which is more my thing.


Archilochus said "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." According to Isaiah Berlin, Tolstoy was a fox who wanted to be a hedgehog. War and Peace was Tolstoy's foxy masterpiece.

User avatar
felix dakat
Janitor
 
Posts: 8161
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 am
Location: east of eden

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby Oran » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:07 pm

Archilochus said "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." According to Isaiah Berlin, Tolstoy was a fox who wanted to be a hedgehog.

That's actually a pretty good insight. You can sense that in a big way throughout.

War and Peace was Tolstoy's foxy masterpiece.


Don't tell him that. Though I got the sense that even he isn't quite convinced that he's achieving ''hedgehog status'' when he writes.
I'm sure there are pros and cons to having your ass handed to you, however, if anything, it does present a quite unique perspective.
User avatar
Oran
 
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:44 am
Location: Ireland.

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby jonquil » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:14 am

Oran wrote:
Archilochus said "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." According to Isaiah Berlin, Tolstoy was a fox who wanted to be a hedgehog.

That's actually a pretty good insight. You can sense that in a big way throughout.

War and Peace was Tolstoy's foxy masterpiece.


Don't tell him that. Though I got the sense that even he isn't quite convinced that he's achieving ''hedgehog status'' when he writes.


Image Image
"Sur le volcan ne pousse pas l'herbe" (Grass does not grow on a volcano). - Ivor Cutler on his bald pate
User avatar
jonquil
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3546
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:57 am
Location: Greenest city in the world!

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby inzydeout » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:15 am

The Antichrist

I want to read poetics

I've read volume 2 and am reading volume 3

I'm reading national geographic all the time, the newspaper, and c.l. Lewis books... uh some other ones but can't think of them right now.
Inzydeout


Image

"Send my credentials to the house of detention."
"For those who need direction, allow my words of advice be enough guidance in this senseless world."
"Beware the fury of a patient man."

Pneumatic-Coma :mrgreen:
User avatar
inzydeout
 
Posts: 238
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:15 pm
Location: https://www.facebook.com/

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:43 pm

I'm reading Reverence by Paul Woodruff

http://www.cceia.org/resources/publicat ... d/205.html

An excerpt:
"....My footnote was on Thuscydides, the most thoughtful of the ancient Greek historians. Writing in the fifth and fourth centuries BCE, Thuscydides adopted the humanist position that gods do not interview in human affairs. He believed that purely human currents in history would bring about most of the results that traditional thinkers expected from the gods: If a tyrant rises too far and too fast, or if he exercises his power with too much arrogance, other people will fear him and hate him, and they -- not the gods -- will unite to bring him down. But if the gods never punish human beings, why bother with reverence?

I used to think that it was only fear of the gods that made the ancient Greeks reverent. Thucydides does not seem to fear the gods, but he fears human arrogance, and therefore he cares a great deal about reverence, which he trears as a cardinal virtue. Some scholars argue, in spite of appearances, that he does believe the gods punish human beings when they violate reverence. But then why doesn't he say so. That was the puzzle I took on in my footnote.
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15274
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby MrMermaid » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:25 pm

Currently reading:

Deadhouse Gates - Steven Erikson
The second gigantic novel in the ten-part fantasy series Malazan Book of the Fallen. I can really, seriously recommend it to anyone who enjoys complex storylines and well thought-out fantasy. His works are simply superb, rivalling Tolkien's for their breadth and detail.

Infinity and the Mind: The Science and Philosophy of the Infinite - Rudy Rucker
An excursion into mathematical infinity, the mind's structure as a computer, and how such a computer is limited in the way it can understand the physical and mathematical universe. Very interesting and compelling, especially for the more mathematically inclined amongst you.

Irrationality - N.S. Sutherland
A good, hard look at, and analysis of, humans and their decisions (both individually and collectively); concluding in a scarily large number of cases that said decisions are made irrationally (scary because one then notices most of these traits in oneself!).

Recently finished:

The Emperor's New Mind - Sir Roger Penrose
Roger takes you on a fascinating journey, from computing and algorithms to fractals and infinity; from quantum weirdness to his own wacky (but extraordinary) ideas of what makes our mind and consciousness tick, and what will always distinguish them from any designed robot/computer. Read with a pinch of salt, but don't be put off by the occasional mathematics and formal logic - just hop on to the next chapter!

The God Delusion - Richard Dawkins
I don't think this needs much explanation. :)

Soon to start reading:

I intend to get into Bertrand Russell's Principia Mathematica at some point in the next year. I also want to re-attempt Harper Lee's To Kill a Mockingbird, and George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four and Animal Farm. (The latter was one I read when I was much younger, and clearly didn't fully comprehend its actual message - farm animals talking to each other was enough to keep me interested!)
User avatar
MrMermaid
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:10 pm

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby jonquil » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:01 pm

I also want to re-attempt Harper Lee's To Kill a Mockingbird, and George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four and Animal Farm. (The latter was one I read when I was much younger, and clearly didn't fully comprehend its actual message - farm animals talking to each other was enough to keep me interested!)


These are not books that you have to attempt. They either take you in completely or they don't. As for me, from the first page I was wholly absorbed and captivated.
"Sur le volcan ne pousse pas l'herbe" (Grass does not grow on a volcano). - Ivor Cutler on his bald pate
User avatar
jonquil
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3546
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:57 am
Location: Greenest city in the world!

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby MrMermaid » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:06 pm

jonquil wrote:These are not books that you have to attempt. They either take you in completely or they don't. As for me, from the first page I was wholly absorbed and captivated.


My earlier attempts at To Kill a Mockingbird and Nineteen Eighty-Four were thwarted by me being distracted from them by such things as extensive revision for exams, and later spending lots of time in the park with mates in the fine weather earlier this British summer. :) I lost track of the story-lines, but that doesn't imply I wasn't enjoying them. I want to try them again, hopefully with more free time to spare for them.
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one." - Albert Einstein

Mathematics is at the heart of everything.
User avatar
MrMermaid
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:10 pm

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby Blurry » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:42 pm

MrMermaid wrote:
jonquil wrote:These are not books that you have to attempt. They either take you in completely or they don't. As for me, from the first page I was wholly absorbed and captivated.


My earlier attempts at To Kill a Mockingbird and Nineteen Eighty-Four were thwarted by me being distracted from them by such things as extensive revision for exams, and later spending lots of time in the park with mates in the fine weather earlier this British summer. :) I lost track of the story-lines, but that doesn't imply I wasn't enjoying them. I want to try them again, hopefully with more free time to spare for them.


You should be able to read To Kill A Mockingbird in one sitting. I think it took me somewhere between five and seven hours, but I'm not sure. All I know for sure is that I didn't sleep that night and I was wrecked for work the next day. 1984 takes a bit more time, or at least, I took more time with it. Happy reading :)
"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is non-existent. And don't bother concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it. In any case, always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: 'It's not where you take things from - it's where you take them to.'" - Jim Jarmusch
User avatar
Blurry
fuck
 
Posts: 4423
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:18 pm

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby nano-bug » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:33 pm

BlurredSavant wrote:
MrMermaid wrote:
jonquil wrote:These are not books that you have to attempt. They either take you in completely or they don't. As for me, from the first page I was wholly absorbed and captivated.


My earlier attempts at To Kill a Mockingbird and Nineteen Eighty-Four were thwarted by me being distracted from them by such things as extensive revision for exams, and later spending lots of time in the park with mates in the fine weather earlier this British summer. :) I lost track of the story-lines, but that doesn't imply I wasn't enjoying them. I want to try them again, hopefully with more free time to spare for them.


You should be able to read To Kill A Mockingbird in one sitting. I think it took me somewhere between five and seven hours, but I'm not sure. All I know for sure is that I didn't sleep that night and I was wrecked for work the next day. 1984 takes a bit more time, or at least, I took more time with it. Happy reading :)



1984

Do you remember the last line written? Pop Quiz: What did Orwell end with?
Highly adaptable. Yes. Wait! What? Yes. He, herself, is a head fuck. Well, will you look at this little train of thought?
User avatar
nano-bug
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3174
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:35 pm
Location: The Virtuplex

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby Tab » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:34 pm

A History of India John Keay
Image
Click Logo For Blog
User avatar
Tab
Deeply Shallow
 
Posts: 8237
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:49 pm

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby Ingenium » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:08 am

"A Reasonable Life" by Ferenc Mate.
I have been loved, Edward told the stars.
So? said the stars.
(The Miraculous Journey of Edward Tulane)
User avatar
Ingenium
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1723
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:11 am
Location: Misogyny-free Zone

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby Blurry » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:49 am

nano-bug wrote:

1984

Do you remember the last line written? Pop Quiz: What did Orwell end with?



Urm..."He loved Big Brother."
"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is non-existent. And don't bother concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it. In any case, always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: 'It's not where you take things from - it's where you take them to.'" - Jim Jarmusch
User avatar
Blurry
fuck
 
Posts: 4423
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:18 pm

Re: So, what books are you reading right now?

Postby nano-bug » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:40 pm

BlurredSavant wrote:
nano-bug wrote:

1984

Do you remember the last line written? Pop Quiz: What did Orwell end with?



Urm..."He loved Big Brother."


"You win!"

"The prize . . . {curtains draw open] . . . A brand new wearable camera with head mounted display, perfect for capturing every moment, both big and small, of your entire life!"
Highly adaptable. Yes. Wait! What? Yes. He, herself, is a head fuck. Well, will you look at this little train of thought?
User avatar
nano-bug
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3174
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:35 pm
Location: The Virtuplex

PreviousNext

Return to Art, Music, and Entertainment



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users