The right side of history.

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The right side of history.

Postby Parodites » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:55 pm

https://i.imgur.com/dEKOAZw.jpg

Fractal Darwinism and nomogenesis ftw.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby MagsJ » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:05 pm

We are, how we were conceived?
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Parodites » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:56 pm

Fractal Darwinism is basically: different selection principles (besides the common random mutation-adaptation mechanism) operate at different levels of organization within the evolutionary hierarchy, and sometimes these principles synchronize between multiple levels creating an emergent phenomenon, a nomos (hence nomogenetic) that, due to resonance phenomenon with epigenetics, retroviruses, cataclysmic events, etc. (The metaphorical fractal: one sees it in the fact, for example, that while a pesticide might work for a span of time, the intended target will suddenly all wisen up to the fact that it is poisonous, as though they were communicating it somehow among themselves, even across seas; so the companies continually change out the flavor profiles used for the bait in their products. Or take the near spontaneous doubling of the size of the human brain, the emergence of language suddenly as a fully-formed operational structure, which involved the digitization of the larynx and the production of a quite novel anatomical structure that could not have been pieced together in the gradual mutations accumulated in the process of adaptation alone, ie our vocal cords, capable of breaking down the analogue signals of the proto-hominid vocalizations into digital sequences of phonemes,-- or, for that matter, the emergence of Man. Consider also the 'crystallization' of the first true cells from a soup of organelle like sub-cellular replicants, thereby transformed from individual microbacteria into the endosymbiotes we still carry with us as part of our cellular structure today, as with our mitochondria.) causes an immediate and radical transformation across a whole spectrum of life, producing novel genetic material and drastically evolving entire species over night in geological terms, as opposed to the standard Darwinist view of random mutations slowly changing life-forms from the bottom up in a process of adaptation to the environment.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Tab » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:57 pm

Erm. No.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Parodites » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:06 pm

Gonna place you into the left, especially after reviewing your user-posts.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Tab » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:07 pm

I'm okay with that.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Parodites » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:13 pm

We could have had a conversation about it, but that would require me going over your head and utilizing materials in, to name a few papers I have in mind to defend myself:

At Home in the Universe - The Search for the Laws of Self-Organization and Complexity
Kauffman, Stuart

Genetic drift at expanding frontiers promotes gene segregation
Hallatschek, Oskar

Fractal structures in nonlinear dynamics
Aguirre, Jacobo

Synthetic Genetic Polymers Capable of Heredity and Evolution

Darwinian Evolution and Fractals
Carr, Paul H.
Abstract
The scientific evidence is that nature's creativity arises from the interplay between chance AND design (laws). Darwin's ``Origin of the Species,'' published 150 years ago in 1859, characterized evolution as the interplay between variations (symbolized by dice) and the natural selection law (design). This is evident in recent discoveries in DNA, Madelbrot's Fractal Geometry of Nature, and the success of the genetic design algorithm. Algorithms for generating fractals have the same interplay between randomness and law as evolution. Fractal statistics, which are not completely random, characterize such phenomena such as fluctuations in the stock market, the Nile River, rainfall, and tree rings. As chaos theorist Joseph Ford put it: God plays dice, but the dice are loaded. Thus Darwin, in discovering the evolutionary interplay between variations and natural selection, was throwing God's dice!


A haplotype map of the human genome
The International Hapmap Consortium:
Abstract
Inherited genetic variation has a critical but as yet largely uncharacterized role in human disease. Here we report a public database of common variation in the human genome: more than one million single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) for which accurate and complete genotypes have been obtained in 269 DNA samples from four populations, including ten 500-kilobase regions in which essentially all information about common DNA variation has been extracted. These data document the generality of recombination hotspots, a block-like structure of linkage disequilibrium and low haplotype diversity, leading to substantial correlations of SNPs with many of their neighbours. We show how the HapMap resource can guide the design and analysis of genetic association studies, shed light on structural variation and recombination, and identify loci that may have been subject to natural selection during human evolution.

Y chromosome diversity, human expansion, drift, and cultural evolution
Chiaroni, Jacques
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Parodites » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:15 pm

But then again, I read shit: I don't just bullshit on the internet. Have you even read the Origin of Species? And I'm not being insulting with you: if all you've got is a "No", then don't post in my fucking thread.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Parodites » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:25 pm

It's been like 20 minutes and I see you coming on and offline so I imagine your're having difficulty computing a response. I'll be here when you've got one.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Tab » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:27 pm

I'll see your bookshelf with my own and add a degree in human and applied biology.

Okay, so you've read a lot, so have I. It's good to read. But your initial long post was a horrible mish-mash of jargon, and as a tool to explain current evolutionary theory on a layman's forum like this... May as well have been the blurb on the back of a herbal remedy for acne.

Now with added evolution !!! Available on e-bay !!!

Take your time, break it down, have clear examples. Show it's falsifiable and not just 'what I said'.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Parodites » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:30 pm

Nomos is a Greek word that means law. As contrasted with chance. The example with the digitization of the larynx is from Chomsky's linguistics, and the emergence of language as a fully formed structure. There is no "half a language or three fourths of language", the mechanism exists or it doesn't, much like the process of crystallizing a snowflake. That may be your problem, you only really are familiar with one thing, and the presiding doxa of that thing, ie. biology. But you must be equally familiar with linguistics, pure mathematics and chaos theory, etc. etc. etc. And the examples, as with the Chomksy stuff, were clear.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Parodites » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:35 pm

But let me break down your contention: you didn't understand the first post because I used the word nomos and appealed to the fact that this is a layman's forum apparently- if it is, I don't give a shit; then you just told me to prove it. I'm not writing you up personally a fucking paper on it dawg, this was an off handed reply to MagsJ about something.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Tab » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:43 pm

How do you figure there is no 'half of language..?' I've read Chomsky's the way the world works and the manufacture of consent, stayed well away on his books about universal language and it springing fully formed from the brow of zeus. He never found concrete evidence of it as far as I remember. I've also read all sorts, just like you.

Evolution doesn't work on the basis of "this language thing sounds cool, we need that. - poof - there you go humans" it works by something co-opting something that did something else originally after god knows however many interim steps. Which sometimes, as you mention, will lead to emergent cascades.

There is no spooky action at a distance across bacterial colonies world wide in response to a local stress as far as I know, unless you can point me in the direction of a paper that gives examples.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Tab » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:45 pm

I admire your typing speed and tenacity btw. :D

But to break it down for you, I think you fell in love with your picture, then gushed a whole bunch of cool-sounding nonsense over the first girl to post in your thread.

Hey, you called me stupid first lol.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby promethean75 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:51 pm

I used the word nomos and appealed to the fact that this is a layman's forum apparently


Actually a lot of folks here still use empty philosophical neologisms and abstractions like that because they look cool... especially the greek ones. So you're in good company.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Parodites » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:57 pm

So you just basically told me to prove it again and again stated you didn't understand the original post. I didn't mean to imply any action at a distance. And nomos doesn't just sound cool, it refers to an older variation of evolutionary theory called nomogenetics, which sort of operates in reverse of the standard Darwinian view. So indeed my use of the word was targeted, not merely a capricious exercise in intellectual vanity. Although I would suggest learning some of those wordy-wordy Greeky-things, especially with your assumed name, Prometheus. You don't need to actually learn the entire language, as I did. Merely enriching yourself with it is enough; though philology, it does grant you new perspectives on things. As Emerson said: every single word is a fossilized poem.

His evidence was what I said about our actual anatomy. Animal calls are analogue signals, whereas we produce a digital signal, meaning we break sound-waves down into discrete units that we call phonemes. While analogue animal calls can only communicate a limited amount of information, these phonemes can be recombined into an endless array of new sequences: they possess recursivity, and thus, the potential for unlimited expression. There is no way to get from one to the other by steps, there had to be a sudden transformation of the anatomical structure, as might occur by the introduction of new genetic materials into an organism; there had to also be a pre-existing symbolic capacity that did exactly as you indicated, and co-opted this new anatomy: the solitary, proto-language that our ancestors might have used to model the world internally, for themselves, now became shareable through language, with writing emerging some time after that. I believe that using chaos theory and fractalization, among other things, can explicate how actually novel genetic material- not mutations of pre-existing material- could be spontaneously created as secondary, emergent phenomenon through the interaction of multiple selection principles suddenly harmonizing across multiple levels of organization- even from the inorganic up, producing fully formed "snowflakes" or crystallizations, to use a metaphor. This is a thesis not an argument, for which I most certainly will not write a paper on for you in this thread; I intended only to throw it out as an idea with the thousand other ones in the image.
Last edited by Parodites on Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Parodites » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:05 pm

Do you really not understand the original post? There are... several selection principles... at work... in shaping the evolution of organic life on planet earth. And these various selection principles... operate at different levels of organization... from the inorganic... to the mammalian... upward. Okay? Now pay attention: at certain points in time... these principles harmonize... creating a multi-leveled synchronization between them... across a whole bunch of these levels of organization... which generates... a novel evolutionary structure. ... metaphorically "crystallizing" a kind of snowflake as a fully formed object... because snowflakes. Like. There aren't 3/4ths of a snowflake or half a snowflake, they form in precise geometric structures.... Does it help when I speak really slowly?
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Parodites » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:10 pm

But it's nice you took applied biology, you've got your big boy pants on. And I didn't directly insult you, much less call you stupid- although you appear to be; I called you an asshole and just said that your casual dismissal of something you apparently didn't understand was unproductive, then flexed my superior learning all over your face.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby MagsJ » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:38 pm

Parodites wrote:..this was an off handed reply to MagsJ about something.

..will reply a bit later on.. a slow start to the day for me. :|

Tab wrote:But to break it down for you, I think you fell in love with your picture, then gushed a whole bunch of cool-sounding nonsense over the first girl to post in your thread.

Heeeey! I protest at being used as a pawn in your disagreement.

Tab said: “I think you fell in love with your picture” - sounds like Narcissism by proxy haha!
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Parodites » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:45 pm

I don't even know what that means, I fell in love with my picture. Anyway I left enough for Tab to respond to.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:52 pm

To be fair, fractal Darwinism not something which a regular glamboy would have any use for trying to understand.

Still it is somewhat weird that the ideological stupidity has become so fanatical in a figure like ab who, in the past, at least held some pretences of being able to appreciate the phenomenon of thought.
Its peculiar how anti-intellectual these dudes are, and how much they seem to consider it self-evident that to think, and to be literate, is a ridiculous stupidity.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:01 pm

On the subject of fractal Darwinism itself, it would seem to be quite logical that an explanation like this has to be conceived for the seemingly unbridgeable gaps in evolution, of which there are so many and which are all so profound that biologists have long given up trying to explain them, which is why evolution theory is still in the 1900s.

This aside from the fact that the theory fractal Darwinism actually seems to hold some water.
But... even the mere effort of thinking is... bad, son. Cant do that here. This is a layman site for hipsters.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Parodites » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:02 pm

I hope that Tab responds to the posts I left, for the problem I have is: I advanced a thesis and, instead of simply asking me to clarify what I did because he did not understand, he just refused it- petulantly, which is a shadow of pride; stunted pride, like that often borne in the souls of those scholars who could not attain innovation. Then after I did, I was tasked with writing him personally a full paper on it to "prove it". It wasn't an argument, it was an idea. Though I do have plenty of resources to mount that defense, as I implied by flexing my library on him. However, if I do so, it will be in its own thread.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:12 pm

"like that often borne in the souls of those scholars who could not attain innovation."

Indeed that is what turns men who fancied themselves thinkers bitter after the age of, I guess, 45 or so, when they realize there is nothing in them.

Id be full of compassion for them if they hadn't convinced themselves that their emptiness is a universal virtue.
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Re: The right side of history.

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:17 pm

By the way without a notion like fractal Darwinism, evolution theory is probably still in the 1800s.

Strict Determinism and Darwin do not combine. Darwin was a lot further ahead of his time than he has been given credit for.
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