James S Saint

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Re: James S Saint

Postby Zero_Sum » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:37 am

iambiguous wrote:Still, let's not lose sight of the fact [if it is a fact] that in so many predicable ways James was/is a run of the mill objectivist.

And that, indeed, some take this to the grave.

If it's any consolation to them, though, I'll be tumbling into my very own soon enough.

The Grim Reaper could not care less about objectivism. Much less nihilism.

Are you saying that death is objective? :-k

That surely doesn't sound very dasein.
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: James S Saint

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:19 am

Zinnat would certainly disagree that James is dead.
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Re: James S Saint

Postby Zero_Sum » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:34 am

Magnus Anderson wrote:Zinnat would certainly disagree that James is dead.


Why is that? Did he take a prolonged trip to India that we don't know about?
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: James S Saint

Postby Pandora » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:22 am

*sigh* ...just when I came across this...
https://www.sciencealert.com/physicists ... modynamics
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Re: James S Saint

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:30 am

Zero_Sum wrote:
Magnus Anderson wrote:Zinnat would certainly disagree that James is dead.


Why is that? Did he take a prolonged trip to India that we don't know about?


He would tell us we can't know whether James is dead or not because the procedure that we use to decide so does not apply to woodfrogs.

http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5#p2681525
I am merely using the observations of science to challenge the benchmarks of death decided by the science itself. I am saying that absence of pulse, heartbeat and brain activity is not enough to declare death. And, that begs further questions like what is actually that causes death or happens at the time of death and what should be right benchmarks of death.
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Re: James S Saint

Postby Serendipper » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:54 am

Magnus Anderson wrote:Zinnat would certainly disagree that James is dead.

Haha yeah I remember him.
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Re: James S Saint

Postby Zero_Sum » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:10 am

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:
Magnus Anderson wrote:Zinnat would certainly disagree that James is dead.


Why is that? Did he take a prolonged trip to India that we don't know about?


He would tell us we can't know whether James is dead or not because the procedure that we use to decide so does not apply to woodfrogs.

viewtopic.php?p=2681525#p2681525
I am merely using the observations of science to challenge the benchmarks of death decided by the science itself. I am saying that absence of pulse, heartbeat and brain activity is not enough to declare death. And, that begs further questions like what is actually that causes death or happens at the time of death and what should be right benchmarks of death.


Shit man that's deep and hilarious also.
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: James S Saint

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:40 pm

Zero_Sum


Are you saying that death is objective? :-k


Death itself is I would say but who knows what else lurks within the Universe to affect a stay of execution so to speak...random or accidental?

Death was both subjective and objective in The Book Thief. Wonderful book. Death was the narrator and as such it was a wonderful medium in which to express both subjectively and objectively the characters portrayed. Many of Death's lines were awe-inspiring and profound and sad.
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


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Re: James S Saint

Postby iambiguous » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:13 pm

Mitra-Sauwelios wrote:
iambiguous wrote:The Grim Reaper could not care less about objectivism. Much less nihilism.


Logically, that either means He does care about objectivism, and possibly nihilism too, but just cannot care about it less than a certain positive amount. Unless you think He may care less than nothing... If not, then let us try and care a negative amount. Then if so after all, we may actually end up caring a positive amount?


Maybe. Technically as it were.

Still, what on earth does it mean to be logical about death? On the other hand, if James is dead he may well know more about the actual consequences of it than any of us here and now on this side of the grave.

For one thing, if there is an "afterlife" he may now grasp the extent to which it either is or is not in sync with the components of RM and the Real God. Or is it all just dasein, conflicting goods and political economy there too?!

Note to James:

Give us a sign.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: James S Saint

Postby iambiguous » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:33 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:
iambiguous wrote:Still, let's not lose sight of the fact [if it is a fact] that in so many predicable ways James was/is a run of the mill objectivist.

And that, indeed, some take this to the grave.

If it's any consolation to them, though, I'll be tumbling into my very own soon enough.

The Grim Reaper could not care less about objectivism. Much less nihilism.

Are you saying that death is objective? :-k

That surely doesn't sound very dasein.


All the signs/signals seem to point in the general direction of oblivion. And oblivion is either objective enough for you or it isn't. James is still conscious of all this here and now or he will never be again.

Whatever that means.

As for dasein, that still revolves around this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529

Its relevance [for me] pertains to human interactions on this side of the grave. Interactions that revolve in turn around conflicting value judgments rooted in the philosophical components of a man still able to make a distinction between the either/or and the is/ought world.

Death itself would seem to be embedded in the former. We all do die. On the other hand, is it immoral that we all die? Ought this not to be the case?

Let's ask James. In other words, if he is not dead and chooses to return to the forum.

Just don't expect anything in the way of, say, specificity from him.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: James S Saint

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:09 am

Pandora wrote:

*sigh* ...just when I came across this...
https://www.sciencealert.com/physicists ... modynamics


The Genesis record implies that this is a young world, possibly less than 10,000. There is evidence that all life and non life processes obey the first and second laws of thermodynamics, therefore this world had a beginning and is "measurably" going downhill and there are other pieces of evidence to fit a young earth, such as the historical records and the population growth.
The man that walks his own road, walks alone

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Re: James S Saint

Postby Zero_Sum » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:21 am

iambiguous wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:
iambiguous wrote:Still, let's not lose sight of the fact [if it is a fact] that in so many predicable ways James was/is a run of the mill objectivist.

And that, indeed, some take this to the grave.

If it's any consolation to them, though, I'll be tumbling into my very own soon enough.

The Grim Reaper could not care less about objectivism. Much less nihilism.

Are you saying that death is objective? :-k

That surely doesn't sound very dasein.


All the signs/signals seem to point in the general direction of oblivion. And oblivion is either objective enough for you or it isn't. James is still conscious of all this here and now or he will never be again.

Whatever that means.

As for dasein, that still revolves around this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529

Its relevance [for me] pertains to human interactions on this side of the grave. Interactions that revolve in turn around conflicting value judgments rooted in the philosophical components of a man still able to make a distinction between the either/or and the is/ought world.

Death itself would seem to be embedded in the former. We all do die. On the other hand, is it immoral that we all die? Ought this not to be the case?

Let's ask James. In other words, if he is not dead and chooses to return to the forum.

Just don't expect anything in the way of, say, specificity from him.


You just can't be certain about anything, can you? :P

I'm betting that you're never a hit around parties either, just kidding of course and giving you a rough time. *shakes head*
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: James S Saint

Postby Zero_Sum » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:26 am

Somehow if James was dead I think he would find it amusing that we're all being philosophical about the meaning of death and life in what otherwise is a thread devoted to remembering him or finding about his whereabouts. This is all ingrained in ILP forum culture of course what we have here together being the odd bunch that we all are.
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: James S Saint

Postby Zero_Sum » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:38 am

iambiguous wrote:
Mitra-Sauwelios wrote:
iambiguous wrote:The Grim Reaper could not care less about objectivism. Much less nihilism.


Logically, that either means He does care about objectivism, and possibly nihilism too, but just cannot care about it less than a certain positive amount. Unless you think He may care less than nothing... If not, then let us try and care a negative amount. Then if so after all, we may actually end up caring a positive amount?


Maybe. Technically as it were.

Still, what on earth does it mean to be logical about death? On the other hand, if James is dead he may well know more about the actual consequences of it than any of us here and now on this side of the grave.

For one thing, if there is an "afterlife" he may now grasp the extent to which it either is or is not in sync with the components of RM and the Real God. Or is it all just dasein, conflicting goods and political economy there too?!

Note to James:

Give us a sign.



The last thing we need here is you starting a seance with the dearly departed. :-"
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: James S Saint

Postby iambiguous » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:02 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:You just can't be certain about anything, can you? :P


Are you kidding? Like most of us, I am reasonably certain the empirical world around me is in fact applicable to all of us. 24/7 as it were. In fact, the overwhelming preponderance of our interactions with others [here or elsewhere] appear to clearly revolve around demonstrable truths.

After all, it would seem that since the Big Bang [whatever that means] a staggering proportion of material interactions happened only as they ever could have. Immutably some suggest.

Where things get mysterious however is when matter evolved into brains evolved into a consciousness able to grapple with the "philosophical" implications of it all.

Then the part where minds react to all the either/or stuff only to bump into other minds who react quite differently. Then what is the truth? Let's call this the is/ought world.

Here James [among others] constructed a frame of mind that somehow linked the two "in his head". The is/ought world as [somehow] an adjunct of the either/or world intertwined [somehow] through the manner in which he came to "think up" RM/AO and the Real God.

But now if James really is dead, I'll never have another opportunity to probe how existentially that worked for him in his conflicted interactions with others.

On the other hand, there are still plenty of other objectivists around able perhaps to yank me up out of my own far more problematic understanding of normative interactions.

And not all of them are Kids. :wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: James S Saint

Postby MagsJ » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:43 pm

James's age says a lot about his posts and perspective.. he's always right. :lol:
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Re: James S Saint

Postby iambiguous » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:07 pm

Jakob wrote:
iambiguous wrote:Here James [among others] constructed a frame of mind that somehow linked the two "in his head".

...



Pretty much like you do. Well, with the help of the stars. :wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: James S Saint

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:26 am

On the questions of Daseins and different contexts colliding and colluding, i.e. the World which is weary of our questioning it.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=179858&start=25#p2695265
it strikes back at us
disallows us to walk it

then questions arise. "Why?" But "there is no why, there is only because." - witchdoctor

Logic is the will to predict. Without it, nothing can live. We observe regularities, and note these and include them into a system of other already discovered regularities. This has allowed us to conclude so many things that we know even less than we did when we knew nothing, because we have been caged inside our regularities and predictions and all the as yet unclassified rages among us unseen, and causes havoc and the end of our world. Affectance-Storms, nuclear fallout from broken self valuings, splinters of the anentropic shells blasting through our world as it stumbles.

Did you not think that God, dying, might explode?
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The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: James S Saint

Postby iambiguous » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:16 pm

Fixed Cross wrote: On the questions of Daseins and different contexts colliding and colluding, i.e. the World which is weary of our questioning it.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=179858&start=25#p2695265
it strikes back at us
disallows us to walk it

then questions arise. "Why?" But "there is no why, there is only because." - witchdoctor

Logic is the will to predict. Without it, nothing can live. We observe regularities, and note these and include them into a system of other already discovered regularities. This has allowed us to conclude so many things that we know even less than we did when we knew nothing, because we have been caged inside our regularities and predictions and all the as yet unclassified rages among us unseen, and causes havoc and the end of our world. Affectance-Storms, nuclear fallout from broken self valuings, splinters of the anentropic shells blasting through our world as it stumbles.

Did you not think that God, dying, might explode?
[Annoying Olympian Laughter]


Rather typical of you of late. A post made to sound astute, shrewd...clever?

But what are we to make of it?

Is it true?

Well, in reference to what particular context? A context that might enable us to grasp more clearly what the point actually is.

Instead from my perspective it appears to be just another intellectual contraption. The point is true if you can find others to agree on the definition and the meaning of the words used to make it.

Much like James encompassing RM/AO.

Now, in the either/or world, the science is [admittedly] often over my head. Me, I'm more intent on exploring its relevance to conflicted human interactions in the is/ought world.

Down here when values come to clash an exchange of intellectual contraptions just won't do.

For example, consider the one from your link above:

Fixed Cross wrote: I contend that Affectance Ontology actual derives from the notion of self-harmony, not the other way around; that the means for verification of affiance are the verifiable difference between self-harmonies. What defines a self-harmony, which relates to a self-valuing, is the same notion seen from the outside rather than only from the inside, is its "an entropic shell". This has never been defined in real terms. It is because this an entropic shell is not comprehensible to a human other than at once as and in the full extent of the experience of value-bias. Thus, the naive thinker concludes that "all is love". What really true is that in the most turbulent raptures of the heart alone can we grasp anything of the meaning of physical law.

We can not see beyond our value-bias and precisely for the reason that this bias is the substance that we are made of.
The anentropic shell is the heart of the self-harmony and it is what causes affectance.


Is this meant to be ironic? Are you exposing to James the same sort of intellectual gibberish he would often dump on me in my attempts to yank RM/AO down out of the didactic/scholastic clouds?

Really, seriously, what are we to make of this in a world bursting at the seams with all manner of moral and political conflagrations?

Why [for all practical purposes] should it matter to us?

Explain that please.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: James S Saint

Postby encode_decode » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:34 pm

    Well it has been well over two months now since we have seen any sign of James.

    I am preserving his work on my forum and website as found in my signature and I hope to clear up some of the less easier to grasp concepts that he presents.


    Aside from that, the conversations on the Neosophi Forum are starting to diversify and could do with some new content.

    All invited:

    http://forum.neosophi.net/

    If you have any problems signing up - let me know straight away.
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      Re: James S Saint

      Postby iambiguous » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:46 pm

      encode_decode wrote:
        Well it has been well over two months now since we have seen any sign of James.

        I am preserving his work on my forum and website as found in my signature and I hope to clear up some of the less easier to grasp concepts that he presents.


        Aside from that, the conversations on the Neosophi Forum are starting to diversify and could do with some new content.

        All invited:

        http://forum.neosophi.net/

        If you have any problems signing up - let me know straight away.


        I see that Satyr has chosen to contribute here as well. And here, in part, is his own reaction to "affectance":

        This is a fancy way of saying (inter)active.
        Everything is dynamic, meaning everything is interactive.
        Affect focuses away from the cause.

        What is interacting?
        Patterned and non-patterned energies.
        Pattern = repeating, consistent, rhythm (order).
        Non-Pattern = inconsistent, non-repeating (chaos).

        Space = possibility
        Matter/Energy = probability
        There are no absolutes other than as words expression conviction, certainty. All absolutes are linguistic constructs referring to relationships.


        And the closest he comes to bringing it all down to earth is this:

        "All bachelors are unmarried" absolute ....but marriage is a human construct.
        A=A absolute. But A is a symbol that only exist as an idea - noetic.
        "My pocket does not contain an elephant" absolute....no.....high probability.
        Pocket is a human construct, Elephant usually refers to an organism with a specific size. Therefore it is highly improbable that the organism will fit into a garment constructed to be worn by an organism the size of a human.


        As with James defending his own "frame of mind" here, Satyr steers his arguments as far away from the is/ought world as he possibly can.

        In other words, another nest of "serious philosophers", another nest of Will Durant's "epistemologists":

        In the end it is dishonesty that breeds the sterile intellectualism of contemporary speculation. A man who is not certain of his mental integrity shuns the vital problems of human existence; at any moment the great laboratory of life may explode his little lie and leave him naked and shivering in the face of truth. So he builds himself an ivory tower of esoteric tomes and professionally philosophical periodicals; he is comfortable only in their company...he wanders farther and farther away from his time and place, and from the problems that absorb his people and his century. The vast concerns that properly belong to philosophy do not concern him...He retreats into a little corner, and insulates himself from the world under layer and layer of technical terminology. He ceases to be a philosopher, and becomes an epistemologist.
        He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

        Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
        Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
        And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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        Re: James S Saint

        Postby encode_decode » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:49 pm

          iambiguous

          In my own defense, I am only new to philosophy in the last year so I am not always able to form wonderful philosophical arguments but I know for a fact that I can detect little subtleties here and there(id est by no means am I stupid). From what I can tell, what you are saying makes much sense to me.

          I am going to say this straight up - I think James and Satyr have both created little shields around themselves and are very unwilling to see things any other way than their own way. In saying this however, I see value in what both of them say and I am sure they could offer much criticism on my open mind.

          Personally I can not be bothered with dogmatic debate as I believe we are far from any definitive answers on life and what it means and why we are here and how we should be and whatever else you want to add to that list. I see value in debate when I see people willing to concede their own arguments but not necessarily close the door on what is of value in their original argument.

          Obviously I have my own way of seeing things and I can see many problems with James' philosophy that I think are fixable - for a start I think that what he is explaining should not be so connected with the physical but rather be used to explain away certain aspects of the physical(if that makes sense). Levels of Abstraction is what I am referring to and it comes from the philosophy of information and strangely and independently from my own philosophy that I have developed away from information - that is the same concept of Levels of Abstraction are used in both. James' philosophy should be looked at as a level of abstraction and not a physics as such - at least for now. I think Levels of Abstraction could work fine in Metaphysics.

          This is a fancy way of saying (inter)active.
          Everything is dynamic, meaning everything is interactive.
          Affect focuses away from the cause.

          Affect does not focus away from the cause - simple.

          iambiguous wrote:As with James defending his own "frame of mind" here, Satyr steers his arguments as far away from the is/ought world as he possibly can.

          And this is where my amateurness shines through - I have been reading your posts for a while and I still do not have a full grasp on the is/ought world. I nearly feel ashamed that I am unable to grasp something that you obviously find easy to communicate, but then I could just ask you questions.

          iambiguous wrote:In other words, another nest of "serious philosophers", another nest of Will Durant's "epistemologists":

          In the end it is dishonesty that breeds the sterile intellectualism of contemporary speculation. A man who is not certain of his mental integrity shuns the vital problems of human existence; at any moment the great laboratory of life may explode his little lie and leave him naked and shivering in the face of truth. So he builds himself an ivory tower of esoteric tomes and professionally philosophical periodicals; he is comfortable only in their company...he wanders farther and farther away from his time and place, and from the problems that absorb his people and his century. The vast concerns that properly belong to philosophy do not concern him...He retreats into a little corner, and insulates himself from the world under layer and layer of technical terminology. He ceases to be a philosopher, and becomes an epistemologist.

          This I do understand and agree with.
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            Re: James S Saint

            Postby Magnus Anderson » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:40 am

            I know James was writing a book. Is that book published? Does anyone know?
            I got a philosophy degree, I'm not upset that I can't find work as a philosopher. It was my decision, and I knew that it wasn't a money making degree, so I get money elsewhere.
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            Re: James S Saint

            Postby encode_decode » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:50 pm

            Magnus Anderson wrote:I know James was writing a book. Is that book published? Does anyone know?

            As far as I know he was still in the process of writing the book. So no, I dont think it is published.

            Later on when I get enough time I am going to write a book on RM:AO - a guide for the rest of us, so to speak.

            I found his ideas hard going and in need of a reference point so as to understand where he was coming from.
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              Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony
              (James S Saint)


              It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
              (Anomaly654)


              Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
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              Re: James S Saint

              Postby iambiguous » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:46 pm

              encode_decode wrote: Levels of Abstraction is what I am referring to and it comes from the philosophy of information and strangely and independently from my own philosophy that I have developed away from information - that is the same concept of Levels of Abstraction are used in both. James' philosophy should be looked at as a level of abstraction and not a physics as such - at least for now. I think Levels of Abstraction could work fine in Metaphysics.


              My own [and of late only] interest in philiosophy revolves almost entirely around the extent to which its tools are applicable when confronting the question, "how ought one to live?"

              And, in particular, in what I construe to be an essentially absurd and meaningless world. A No God world that culminates in oblivion for each of us one by one.

              Either abstract arguments -- or its cousin, "general descriptions" -- will go there or they will not.

              James would never take RM/AO and/or the Real God there. Or, rather, not in a manner that we could both agree on.

              iambiguous wrote:As with James defending his own "frame of mind" here, Satyr steers his arguments as far away from the is/ought world as he possibly can.


              encode_decode wrote:And this is where my amateurness shines through - I have been reading your posts for a while and I still do not have a full grasp on the is/ought world. I nearly feel ashamed that I am unable to grasp something that you obviously find easy to communicate, but then I could just ask you questions.


              It's basically the difference between describing human interactions as they do in fact unfold from day to day, and assessing whether they ought to have unfolded in some other way instead. In order to be in sync with what is deemed to be rational or virtuous behavior.

              It's the difference between Donald Trump shutting down the Mueller investigation [he either does or he does not] and arguing that, if it is shut down, it was the right thing to do.

              I really don't grasp how others fail to see this rather clear distinction. One can be demonstrated to be true for all of us [sans sim worlds, solipsism, cartesean demons etc.] and the other is tangled in sets of political prejudices rooted in what I construe to be an existential interaction of human identity, value judgments and political power: out in a particular world historically, culturally and experientially.

              Either RM/AO and the Real God are applicable here or they are not.
              He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

              Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
              Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
              And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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