A Call To Men

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Re: A Call To Men

Postby gib » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:55 pm

The man would have to want to change in order for this to work at all. There's no such thing as "educating" a person that what they're doing is wrong if they don't think it's wrong to begin with. In that case, you're better off locking him up somewhere.

Becoming a better man isn't something that you can hand over to a director or an instructor. An instructor can teach you the technical skills (emotional, cognitive, speaking, relating, etc.) but you have to point the way. You have to tell the instructor how you want to change, what to you counts as being a better man.
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It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
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The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby Otto_West » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:55 pm

gib wrote:The man would have to want to change in order for this to work at all. There's no such thing as "educating" a person that what they're doing is wrong if they don't think it's wrong to begin with. In that case, you're better off locking him up somewhere.

Becoming a better man isn't something that you can hand over to a director or an instructor. An instructor can teach you the technical skills (emotional, cognitive, speaking, relating, etc.) but you have to point the way. You have to tell the instructor how you want to change, what to you counts as being a better man.

The problem with the technological progressive era is that it assumes all human beings have the same capacity for knowledge, information, and intelligence. This is a fallacy.
Last edited by Otto_West on Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby Otto_West » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:56 pm

gib wrote:
Otto_West wrote:In the technological transhumanistic driven world where many men and woman are being fazed into existential obsolescence <-- What does that mean? that can be quite a difficult thing. Add in rising social and economic inequality you get the picture.


There's never been perfect equality. But economic inequality, and inequality of opportunity, is why many women feel they have to think practically (money) when choosing a mate as opposed to with their libido. But I think that's been the way since before the dawn of civilization, even before the dawning of our species, which is why status and might in men triggers something on a deeply instinctual level in women and ties it into their libido anyway. Evolution knows what it's doing.

Look at my previous above comment.^^^
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby statiktech » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:15 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
encode_decode wrote:
gib wrote:Wendy, I'm a violent male who rapes and beats women on a daily basis. How can A Call to Men benefit me?

My name is not Wendy . . . however . . . I don't believe you are a violent male who rapes and beats women on a daily basis.

:lol:

Your question is a valid one though . . .

Wendy, how can a call to men benefit me?

:D

The org. will upgrade your awareness and make your conscience actionable making you a better man who will attract a better woman and thus a better life.


Telling someone that their behavior is wrong is not the same as persuading their conscience. Education can help, but, as gib noted, a person without a desire to change his conscience will likely not be persuaded. You can't force an "upgrade" on people like you can a computer. Also, being a "better man" (whatever that entails) doesn't guarantee female attraction, let alone a better life. You seem to have a very naive view of relationships in general, among other things.
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby Otto_West » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:51 pm

Sadly economic materialism has supplanted everything from politics, identity, and so on.

Education? :lol:
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:00 am

statiktech wrote:
gib wrote:Wendy, I'm a violent male who rapes and beats women on a daily basis. How can A Call to Men benefit me?

My name is not Wendy . . . however . . . I don't believe you are a violent male who rapes and beats women on a daily basis.

:lol:

Your question is a valid one though . . .

Wendy, how can a call to men benefit me?

:D

The org. will upgrade your awareness and make your conscience actionable making you a better man who will attract a better woman and thus a better life.


Stat wrote
Telling someone that their behavior is wrong is not the same as persuading their conscience. Education can help, but, as gib noted, a person without a desire to change his conscience will likely not be persuaded. You can't force an "upgrade" on people like you can a computer. Also, being a "better man" (whatever that entails) doesn't guarantee female attraction, let alone a better life. You seem to have a very naive view of relationships in general, among other things.

Well the org. A Call To Men recruits better men, to teach boys how to be better men. It's not set up to persuade a man not to be an animal, it's set up to help boys grow into a manhood that doesn't abuse others. Better women, of higher quality females, recognize better men and are drawn into cooperative partnerships with them more so than the bad boys who will waste their time. So by being a better man, a cooperative, non-abusive man, a woman who is likewise will be drawn to you, your finesse to overcome challenges without lashing out, to meet consensual goals, to serve not only yourself but others as well.
You seem to have a very naive view of relationships in general, among other things.

Perhaps being positive will end up being my downfall, but so far, so good. :teasing-neener:
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby gib » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:02 am

The problem is that you can't define "better" in an objective universal way. "Better" is going to mean something different for every man and for every woman. For one woman, a better man might mean a better soldier. For another, he might be a better charity worker. It depends on the woman and her tastes in men, and also the man's aspirations for himself.

I think we can all agree that very few women out there want a man who beats and rapes them, so the organization can probably do some good teaching boys how not to do that (and note I said 'how' not to do that, not just to not do that), but beyond that, I think we have to let men decide for themselves what counts as "better" and allow the women who happen to feel the same way to be attracted to them.
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It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:27 pm

How's about better means non-criminal, non-immoral, and helpfully nice, of course in a relative way? #-o Who spoke about jobs? Why are you tying better to employment, gibman?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby Otto_West » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:24 pm

Nobody addresses my points, just as well...
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby gib » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:52 am

WendyDarling wrote:How's about better means non-criminal, <-- Sure, for a start. non-immoral, <-- Now we get relativistic. and helpfully nice <-- Some women like a bad ass., of course in a relative way? #-o


I like your focus on non-criminal. To put this into context, I'd say: non-threatening. But beyond that, a "better man" is going to depend on the woman's tastes.

WendyDarling wrote:Who spoke about jobs? Why are you tying better to employment, gibman?


It doesn't have to be a job (I was thinking religious with charity worker). It comes down to values and tastes. Some hold soldiers in high regard, others hold charity workers in high regards. Others artists. Others scientists. Others optimists. Others pessimists. Wherever your values lay.
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It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:14 am

Some women like a bad ass

Bad as in evil or bad as in tough?

It comes down to values and tastes

#-o It's all subjective rather than categorically objective is that what your liberal mind is going with? A better man is not subjective. The best man may be subjective based on personal preferences, but not a better man which would be an acceptable societal average of alike/similar answers of what constitutes a better man, not to be overturned or disregarded by choosing a best man, but better used as a stepping stone to narrow down the best.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby gib » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:51 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Bad as in evil or bad as in tough?


Probably both. Depends on the girl.

WendyDarling wrote:
It comes down to values and tastes

#-o It's all subjective rather than categorically objective is that what your liberal mind is going with? Let's not make this political. A better man is not subjective. Oh, yes he is. The best man may be subjective based on personal preferences, but not a better man which would be an acceptable societal average of alike/similar answers of what constitutes a better man, not to be overturned or disregarded by choosing a best man, but better used as a stepping stone to narrow down the best.


^ Not sure what this last part means, but if we're going based on what the average woman wants in a man, and we force men to conform to that standard, you'll not only get a bunch of fakes, but a lot of disappointed women.

There's a LOT of diversity among men and women. Averages don't mean much.

I'm just not sure why we have to go farther than raising men to not be abusers. Shouldn't women have a wide variety of different types of men to choose from? If it's not a matter of a woman's taste, but objective morality in itself, then why are we focused only on men?
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:56 pm

gib wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Bad as in evil or bad as in tough?


Probably both. Depends on the girl.

WendyDarling wrote:
It comes down to values and tastes

#-o It's all subjective rather than categorically objective is that what your liberal mind is going with? Let's not make this political. A better man is not subjective. Oh, yes he is. The best man may be subjective based on personal preferences, but not a better man which would be an acceptable societal average of alike/similar answers of what constitutes a better man, not to be overturned or disregarded by choosing a best man, but better used as a stepping stone to narrow down the best.


^ Not sure what this last part means, but if we're going based on what the average woman wants in a man, and we force men to conform to that standard, you'll not only get a bunch of fakes, but a lot of disappointed women.

There's a LOT of diversity among men and women. Averages don't mean much.

I'm just not sure why we have to go farther than raising men to not be abusers. Shouldn't women have a wide variety of different types of men to choose from? If it's not a matter of a woman's taste, but objective morality in itself, then why are we focused only on men?

This isn't about forcing anyone to be anything, but it is about recognizing what in general makes a better man.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:00 pm

What makes a better man is a cute face, high IQ and large penis. I prefer my men to be a little rough around the edges. And this can all be accomplished through science.
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby gib » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:15 am

WendyDarling wrote:This isn't about forcing anyone to be anything, but it is about recognizing what in general makes a better man.


And teaching little boys to live up to that. I'm just saying you're in precarious waters when you go further out than basic moral principles of respect and anti-abuse. Don't get too comfortable slipping into the role of moral authority.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:44 pm

Such perfection :wink: should be the moral authority.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby gib » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:00 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Such perfection :wink: should be the moral authority.


Perfectionism in listening to one's conscience. <-- That's a skill that could be taught to everyone (though I don't know if it would get rid of diversity). Listening to one's conscience would have to be paired with a sense of pride in doing the right thing, not guilt.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:06 pm

Can actual guilt be taught or is it just your own conscience making you aware of your ways? Better yet, can you teach someone to have a conscience?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby surreptitious57 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:36 pm

Wendy wrote:
Can actual guilt be taught or is it just your own conscience making you aware of your ways? Better yet can you teach someone to have a conscience?

You can provide the tools for educating an ignorant mind if it is willing to learn but you cannot force it to. Ultimately all self improvement comes from within
Everyone who is compos mentis has a conscience but not all are the same. Guilt is good it as it is admission of error and acceptance of personal responsibility
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:42 pm

It would be easier to prove that everyone is insane than to prove that they have a conscience.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby surreptitious57 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:57 pm

Wendy wrote:
It would be easier to prove that everyone is insane than to prove that they have a conscience

Everyone who is not insane does have a conscience but like I said they are not all the same
Since what might make one person feel remorse may not make another person feel likewise
We are moral beings but the things that we feel moralistic about can vary quite significantly
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:02 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wendy wrote:
It would be easier to prove that everyone is insane than to prove that they have a conscience

Everyone who is not insane does have a conscience but like I said they are not all the same
Since what might make one person feel remorse may not make another person feel likewise
We are moral beings but the things that we feel moralistic about can vary quite significantly

Such as...examples would be helpful.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby surreptitious57 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:33 pm

I see nothing wrong in principle with eating meat but a vegetarian would. I also have no opinion on abortion in general
but someone who was either very pro or very anti would. Yet I do have a strong moral view on the concept of freedom
of speech but again not everyone would. And they are some examples of what I mean by not everyone having the same
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:49 pm

Have you ever watched animals becoming food in a slaughterhouse?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: A Call To Men

Postby surreptitious57 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:14 pm

No but that would not make me become a vegetarian because I already know that happens. I know that not every animal
is humanely killed but when I am buying or eating meat that thought never crosses my mind. But I actually eat very little
meat anyway. Some chicken on occasion and sausages more frequently and that is it really. I do regularly eat fish though
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