Abortion

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Re: Abortion

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:56 pm

Arminius wrote:
Abortion is a criminal offence.

WendyDarling wrote:
Neglect and mental/physical abuse are criminal offences too which would place 1/3 of parents in jail/prison if the police did a child welfare sweep worldwide.

Arminius wrote:
That is derailing - like: "Theft is a criminal offence too." Again: Abortion is a criminal offence, a criminal act, regardless whether there are orther criminal offences, criminal acts, too.


No, theft doesn't have to do with parenting practices.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Arminius » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:02 pm

Kriswest wrote:I see that abuse and neglect are tied very closely to the abortion subject.

I do not see that, at least not in the sense of justifying abortion. Nothing can justify abortion. There are enough forms of birth control (contraceptive, prophylactic means). Abortion is not necessary.

According to your argument, the most abused and neglected children must be found in Black Africa, because the Black Africans have - by far - the most children. There is almost no abortion in Black Africa. So, according to your argument, the Black Africans have - by far - the most abused and neglected children.

Kriswest wrote:What is worse a broken child that spends years in family hell or the quick death of a fetus that has no memories, no knowledge, nothing. Banning abortion will bring millions into a system not designed to cope.

No, because this would mean that you or Mr. X and Mrs. Y already know who aborts and who does not abort, who abuses and neglects and who does not abuse and neglect.

What about birth control options for people of any age, ethnicity, and gender?
Last edited by Arminius on Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Arminius » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:08 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
Arminius wrote:
Abortion is a criminal offence.

WendyDarling wrote:
Neglect and mental/physical abuse are criminal offences too which would place 1/3 of parents in jail/prison if the police did a child welfare sweep worldwide.

Arminius wrote:
That is derailing - like: "Theft is a criminal offence too." Again: Abortion is a criminal offence, a criminal act, regardless whether there are orther criminal offences, criminal acts, too.


No, theft doesn't have to do with parenting practices.

That is not true. Or: That is as much true as the statement that "abuse and neglect have to do with abortion".
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Re: Abortion

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:24 pm

Did you even read the OP? Are you pro birth, pro life, or both Arminius? Contraceptives have to be used and used properly without fail. Men do not like to wear condoms. Women do not take their pills as prescribed. If tubes are tied in both males and females at a young age, problem solved.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:30 pm

We should tie the tubes of all the mental midgets of the internet who support left and right wing fascism.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Arminius » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:44 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Did you even read the OP?

I think you did not.

WendyDarling wrote:Are you pro birth, pro life, or both Arminius?

What do you think?

WendyDarling wrote:Contraceptives have to be used and used properly without fail. Men do not like to wear condoms. Women do not take their pills as prescribed. If tubes are tied in both males and females at a young age, problem solved.

But they all do like to abort, Darling, don't they?
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Re: Abortion

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:49 pm

I think pro male stupidity. I am certain about that.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Arminius » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:57 pm

If you have no arguments, then you use personal attacks. That is typical for the most ILP members, and you are obviously one of those most ILP members.

Good bye.
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Re: Abortion

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:40 pm

You are not innocent in your behavior from trying to derail the thread by accusing me of such. Yes, goodbye, male stupidity.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Kriswest » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:11 am

Arminius wrote:
Kriswest wrote:I see that abuse and neglect are tied very closely to the abortion subject.

I do not see that, at least not in the sense of justifying abortion. Nothing can justify abortion. There are enough forms of birth control (contraceptive, prophylactic means). Abortion is not necessary.

According to your argument, the most abused and neglected children must be found in Black-Africa, because the Black African have - by far - the most children. There is almost no abortion in Black Africa. So, according to your argument, the Black Africans have - by far - the most abused and neglected children.

Kriswest wrote:What is worse a broken child that spends years in family hell or the quick death of a fetus that has no memories, no knowledge, nothing. Banning abortion will bring millions into a system not designed to cope.

No, because this would mean that you or Mr. X and Mrs. Y already know who aborts and who does not abort, who abuses and neglects and who does not abuse and neglect.

What about birth control options for people of any age, ethnicity, and gender?

Birth control is not free , not readily available for teens or poor.
Not sure at all where you grabbed Africa from. But, OK. Let's drag that in. Abuse is starvation, beating , sexual, no education,,, etc . I would sadly say they qualify considering the lack of education, food, and more. Why do you think there are organizations trying to help and make things better?
Forcing unwanted unloved lives into existence is creating a dangerous situation world wide. Can you not see that children raised in heartless institutions or raised by family that resents them will create humans that will be heartless or worse? Children should be loved wanted and happily raised. Human religions have destroyed love in order to appease gods. Produce souls so that a god has followers. Why ?? Why would anyone want to follow a god that so hates love? Abortion sucks but, abused, neglected unloved , unwanted humans is so much worse. Does your god want a baby girl to live through being raped by her father and her mother accepting this??? How about boys being treated so? If your god condones abuse so that it may have souls, it is a piece of shit. If your god wants quantity over quality then I could never follow it. If you just believe that all life deserves respect, I agree. That fetus deserves respect, it deserves love, it deserves food,shelter, and care. I want to stop unwanted unloved pregnancy and children. Life is not living. I know your intent is great but, does it take in the future, does it take in the horrors of human depths?
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Abortion

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:17 am

Where is his great intent, Kris?
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Re: Abortion

Postby Kriswest » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:34 am

WendyDarling wrote:Where is his great intent, Kris?

Intent is hope, prayer, faith. These are very powerful in the mind yet it blinds. We cannot lose these they have brought us to sentience and beyond. But we are overusing them like they are all there is. We desperately need them but, we must not be addicted.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Kriswest » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:38 am

WD, try never to insult those you argue with unless you really know them. Insults weaken arguments.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Abortion

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:40 am

WendyDarling wrote:
Contraceptives have to be used and used properly without fail. Men do not like to wear condoms. Women do not take their pills as prescribed. If tubes are tied in both males and females at a young age, problem solved.

Arminius wrote:
But they all do like to abort, Darling, don't they?


Tell me where his intent is again Kris? That's not hope, that's an accusation against all women in my opinion, but he was 'kind' enough to address it to me. If not to insult, to what?
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Re: Abortion

Postby Kriswest » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:04 am

Intent is to defend life. The attack is emotional bent on one side. Consider the past, religion.. people attack that which they fear or loathe even if their intent is to save. I am a tired and 3 am comes early . I will try to do better in the morning :)
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Abortion

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:48 am

Okay, Kris. Pleasant dreams.
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Re: Abortion

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:21 am

Leyla wrote:
Of course the whole subject is ambivalent. I'm not for „banning“ abortion completely, but I'm against promoting it as the first and most reasonable option. Instead of teaching people how to solve problems and giving them psychological and/or financial support, they are told to "cut off" their problems, and it's sold to us as the "freedom of choice". But it all fits into the same system, for a reason: When you are currently discontended with your husband, divorce him. When a baby doesn't fit into your current plans, abort it. When life doesn't turn out as you would currently like it, kill yourself. Don't change your life, just take a pill.
Destroy the family and annihilate yourself, so „we“ don't have to do it. And there are enough stupid people in the world who believe it.


Do you have children Leyla?

There are women who are ice/heroine addicts, who happily continue ingesting throughout their pregnancies, are they suitable mothers to be?

"there are enough stupid people in the world who believe it".

https://youtu.be/tk2hOYUpKVI

Forget abortion, these women should be sterilised.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Some Guy in History » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:24 pm

Kriswest wrote:Intent is to defend life. The attack is emotional bent on one side. Consider the past, religion.. people attack that which they fear or loathe even if their intent is to save. I am a tired and 3 am comes early . I will try to do better in the morning :)


Defending life is not something we're all born with and at the point of life thriving everywhere and having no need of anyone to defend it, what is the point of defending it and protecting it when you can't defend or protect it from that which does the most damage, what dances through the minds and the spirits in such a way as to be too evasive for you to stop it or pre-empt it before the damage is done?

I find that most things have a tendency to destroy life, are more prone to it than to defend it. People attack even what they don't fear and loathe. They attack what they love and don't fear all the same because they love it too much and we know all too much about the nature of the world and existence around us. You repeat things that sound good that so many others repeat and they become lies while you would hold to them as truths for not seeing the lie, not wanting to recognize it in your own self.

If you're so intent on defending and saving life so it can have its agony and misery drawn out until it does inevitably die in one way or the other, in fact in all ways, then why aren't you doing more than visiting here everyday and talking about it. Tell me about what you've been proactively doing throughout your life and the world, what you have been active in that is enriching our lives and giving us reasons to live?

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Re: Abortion

Postby surreptitious57 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:39 pm

Arminius wrote:
Abortion is a criminal offence

Depends upon the jurisdiction. Varies from country to country. In some it is mostly or entirely illegal
while in others it is permissible within a specified time limit [ somewhere between twenty to twenty
four weeks ] I suspect though that you were making a moral statement here. Rather than a legal one
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Re: Abortion

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:11 pm

Oh Kris, I don't understand 'the defend at all costs' mentality. To attack in defense is a poor defense.

When people attack without conscience, I'm not going to let them get away with their attacks. I offered a medical alternative to faulty birth control practices and he followed that with an attack. So I smacked him back and he went off whining about how I started it. Actually, I finished it.

Sorry if you were looking forward to his further intentions, maybe he'll return to be as wonderfully helpful and undeniably innocent as before.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Kriswest » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:24 pm

Sorry for delay been dealing with allergy headaches almost migraines.The intent in Arm's case can be a reverence of life. Deep emotions blind or handicap attitudes. There are many like him that feel strongly that a life deserves that fraction of a chance. It is admirable but, not practical for the species or the world. The intent is hope, faith in something greater.
The insult to you is a defense mechanism in the mind. Difference, truth, lies , emotion causes knee jerk reaction of the mouth not the brain.

When you realize it is not you that is the true target but , what you are putting in their brain it can change your attitude, patience, and give you an ability to step back and see more... do you understand? I can try again,.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Kriswest » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:28 pm

RF,, have you read my posts???

I talk on other sites besides this one. I cannot start a movement though, I know I am not suited for it.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Abortion

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:44 pm

I'm all for civilized debate, but if he or anyone else instigates less than civilized behavior, "POW!" I'm not here to be some pompous mule's punching bag.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!


Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Kriswest » Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:48 am

I can appreciate that , trust me. I too would love to go off on others but, I have learned that it is the equivalent of banging your head on a brick wall or masturbating. If the goal is to change, then calm heads are the best to make the change.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Mithus » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:30 pm

Where exactly did he offend you, WD? I can't see it in his posts. He made a factual statement, that abortion is a criminal offense, and you came up with "male stupidity". So who was attacking whom?
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