Merlin VS. Mowk

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Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:06 am

What shall we talk about Mowk?


Mowk:For something that doesn't exist you do a fair job in its practice. I do agree that the world appears very uncivilized at times. A work in progress so to speak. I don't think civilization is singularly about how we respond to each other in dialog though, that's is just one aspect. Community is involved and has a sort of place component as well as a cultural aspect. Art as an element of civilization might be a useful example. Caveman painted images on walls and likely there was something ritual or ceremonial taking place, fairly primitive images, they were flat and without perspective, and lacked dimension, and today we have richly symbolic works of art that are exquisite examples of representation... we have learned along the way, developed. I find it difficult to deny just because at times it can appear so uncivilized that there isn't development and progress exampled along the way. I am married, love my wife, I don't call her stupid or demean her, I don't get my friends together to laugh at her behind her back. I certainly don't make fun of her. Even in a world that sometimes appears uncivilized. I don't think you would have a relationship with another human being if there were not civility in practice so I am a bit surprised by your argument that you flat out don't believe in it on the grounds that we live in a very uncivilized world.


How is progress in civilization measured exactly? Me practice civility? No, I just go through the motions for the sake of expediency, mobility, ambition, and effectiveness. For me civility is a giant facade or illusion.

You're talking to somebody that doesn't believe in morality or ethics.
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Re: VS.

Postby Mowk » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:29 am

What shall we talk about Mowk?


Merlin, I don't believe in talking for its own sake. Thanks anyway.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Uccisore » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:54 pm

The instant the goal ceases to be a vendetta against me, Mowk bows out; and not a soul was surprised.
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Re: VS.

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:44 pm

Mowk wrote:
What shall we talk about Mowk?


Merlin, I don't believe in talking for its own sake. Thanks anyway.


I was giving you the opportunity of finishing our conversation from that other thread. Now you don't want to even talk. Serves me right for giving you the benefit of doubt.

Don't waste any of my time going into the future.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mowk » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:32 pm

Merlin, Joker, James.... etc.,

I spent some time attempting to explain a position of civility and how it is tied to an assortment of elements of what it is to be civilized and it's relation to civilization. (Slow thinker; remember).

Your response;
I don't believe in civility, and there is no such thing as civilization. The world is uncivilized.

I've attempted to explain my thinking with regard to race issues and globalization.

Your response;
I don't believe in that, and add a shot across the bow toward preemption of ideas of ethics and morality as corollaries, adding your don't believe in them either.
Rather than dumbly ask something like "how do you measure civilization?" by first attempting to answer it for yourself you, you lay that bomb in my lap. Which likely will go no where, because you've already stated you don't believe in it either.

I attempt to reference physical anthropology and archeology into the thinking about race issues and where they are going and you let me know quite squarely, that you are critical of scientism, but you don't recognize I'm not advocating for scientism. (Rather like I wasn't advocating for censorship, but you were going to blame me for it regardless.)

I mention the hippy era, and you are quite quick to point out it was riddled with communist and Marxist revolutionary propaganda, and I didn't just reply with calling you a McArthyist or accuse you of playing into fear mongering effort to destabilize our democracy.

That era was brutal toward homosexuals as "evils against family and morality", and then you flippantly ask how you measure civilization anyway? Quite simply by it results, the rights it grants for its citizens in fairness and equality. But you believe not in racial differentiation you contend subspecies distinction, and I am guessing by implication that you think of yourself as a member of what you believe to be the superior subspecies. Maybe you'd like to google what is suspect of having ended Senator McCarthy's political career? Like some priests at the pulpit. "God will condemn you as a sinner", and then to utter in private "come here little boy".
Be careful what you wish for.

As sensitive, emphatic, and compassionate as I can be, I just can't get past the painful frustration I feel when reading you.

You capitalized the abbreviation for verses in the title you choose where I would have been more inclined to title it "Merlin and Mowk have a discussion". You don't appear to me to even be trying to dance. You're posing, I don't know it, and I could always be wrong, but that would be my current best guess.

So I respond sorry man, I don't believe in talking for its own sake and thanked you anyway for taking what little time you spent to respond to me in a thoughtful reasoned manner.

We have progressed as a civilization in my thinking. It can be measured in the improvements we've made in our collective understanding of things as simple as dimension and representation in an art form.

So yeah, you could respond with, "Don't waste any of my time, going forward in the future. And I could respond you haven't exampled anything but a waste of my time. If we are not both taking responsibility for each others time then it is a waste to continue. At least J Edgar Hoover sometimes had the evidence that someone had registered with the communist party for his witch hunt. I'm not even a registered democrat.

Ucci appears incapable of understanding that he hasn't won anything the grounds of the evidence he presents, he has won only on the grounds that he is willing to waste more of my time then I am of his, with his McCarthyistic bullying.

I keep coming back cause I'm attempting to allow for the benefit of doubt. Searching for any glimmer of curiosity, any willingness to dance, and not just repeatedly have toes crushed under boots, cause you don't like the song that is playing.

That's why I don't think he is quite mature enough to be a competent moderator. He has much more than thick skin; still not quite sure about that being a strength of a reasoned mind.

Carleas' attitude surrounding all of this appears painfully brilliant at times. The comedy and tragedy.

Edited for consistency of tense in sentence struture.
Last edited by Mowk on Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:42 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mowk » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:06 pm

This idea of knowing absolutely, that lies as the foundation of most of humanities dogmas is unjustifiable. I'd like to use a metaphor; If you know how the story ends most aren't likely to read the book. Everything is a work in progress. I have pleaded with the universe and any god that might be listening. I haven't pleaded for wealth or power or talent or even for knowing (that could spell the end game), I've asked for understanding. And that my fellow planet dwellers, is a work in progress. Be careful of what you wish for.

Some are quite good at ignoring sneaking suspicions.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:55 pm

Mowk wrote:This idea of knowing absolutely, that lies as the foundation of most of humanities dogmas is unjustifiable. I'd like to use a metaphor; If you know how the story ends most aren't likely to read the book. Everything is a work in progress. I have pleaded with the universe and any god that might be listening. I haven't pleaded for wealth or power or talent or even for knowing (that could spell the end game), I've asked for understanding. And that my fellow planet dwellers, is a work in progress. Be careful of what you wish for.

Some are quite good at ignoring sneaking suspicions.

I already know how this world ends and it ends with complete horror into the grand finale.
Civilization is a ship of fools headed to a one way destination of catastrophe and annihilation, its many captains populated by asshole-idiots that all agree it is unsinkable.

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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:00 pm

Mowk wrote:Merlin, Joker, James.... etc.,

I spent some time attempting to explain a position of civility and how it is tied to an assortment of elements of what it is to be civilized and it's relation to civilization. (Slow thinker; remember).

Your response;
I don't believe in civility, and there is no such thing as civilization. The world is uncivilized.

I've attempted to explain my thinking with regard to race issues and globalization.

Your response;
I don't believe in that, and add a shot across the bow toward preemption of ideas of ethics and morality as corollaries, adding your don't believe in them either.
Rather than dumbly ask something like "how do you measure civilization?" by first attempting to answer it for yourself you, you lay that bomb in my lap. Which likely will go no where, because you've already stated you don't believe in it either.

I attempt to reference physical anthropology and archeology into the thinking about race issues and where they are going and you let me know quite squarely, that you are critical of scientism, but you don't recognize I'm not advocating for scientism. (Rather like I wasn't advocating for censorship, but you were going to blame me for it regardless.)

I mention the hippy era, and you are quite quick to point out it was riddled with communist and Marxist revolutionary propaganda, and I didn't just reply with calling you a McArthyist or accuse you of playing into fear mongering effort to destabilize our democracy.

That era was brutal toward homosexuals as "evils against family and morality", and then you flippantly ask how you measure civilization anyway? Quite simply by it results, the rights it grants for its citizens in fairness and equality. But you believe not in racial differentiation you contend subspecies distinction, and I am guessing by implication that you think of yourself as a member of what you believe to be the superior subspecies. Maybe you'd like to google what is suspect of having ended Senator McCarthy's political career? Like some priests at the pulpit. "God will condemn you as a sinner", and then to utter in private "come here little boy".
Be careful what you wish for.

As sensitive, emphatic, and compassionate as I can be, I just can't get past the painful frustration I feel when reading you.

You capitalized the abbreviation for verses in the title you choose where I would have been more inclined to title it "Merlin and Mowk have a discussion". You don't appear to me to even be trying to dance. You're posing, I don't know it, and I could always be wrong, but that would be my current best guess.

So I respond sorry man, I don't believe in talking for its own sake and thanked you anyway for taking what little time you spent to respond to me in a thoughtful reasoned manner.

We have progressed as a civilization in my thinking. It can be measured in the improvements we've made in our collective understanding of things as simple as dimension and representation in an art form.

So yeah, you could respond with, "Don't waste any of my time, going forward in the future. And I could respond you haven't exampled anything but a waste of my time. If we are not both taking responsibility for each others time then it is a waste to continue. At least J Edgar Hoover sometimes had the evidence that someone had registered with the communist party for his witch hunt. I'm not even a registered democrat.

Ucci appears incapable of understanding that he hasn't won anything the grounds of the evidence he presents, he has won only on the grounds that he is willing to waste more of my time then I am of his, with his McCarthyistic bullying.

I keep coming back cause I'm attempting to allow for the benefit of doubt. Searching for any glimmer of curiosity, any willingness to dance, and not just repeatedly have toes crushed under boots, cause you don't like the song that is playing.

That's why I don't think he is quite mature enough to be a competent moderator. He has much more than thick skin; still not quite sure about that being a strength of a reasoned mind.

Carleas' attitude surrounding all of this appears painfully brilliant at times. The comedy and tragedy.

Edited for consistency of tense in sentence struture.



Yes, I am frustrating for most to read because I am a cynic, pessimist, nihilist, and overall doubting naysayer. If I leave people a terrible distaste in their mouth after reading my philosophy that's the whole entire point of it. I am the hope destroyer and annihilator.

I'm a negator, it's what I do.

I brought up scientism because you strike me as somebody that believes in it.

I'm not a McCarthyist as I don't very much care for state sponsored capitalism either.

I don't believe in racial superiority or supremacy. If anything I'm a racial relativist.

Posing as what exactly?


All the improvements in civilization are enjoyed equally by everyone?
Last edited by Mictlantecuhtli on Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:09 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mowk » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:01 pm

I wasn't merely speaking of this world. You may call yourself anything you would like but be consistent.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:03 pm

Mowk wrote:I wan't merely speaking of this world.


Religious? I'm still editing my previous post.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mowk » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:07 pm

Religious? No I don't practice any religion. Go to the source and avoid all the self proclaimed middle men. And if you've guessed wrong, try again.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:10 pm

Mowk wrote:Religious? No I don't practice any religion. Go to the source and avoid all the self proclaimed middle men.

I'm an atheist myself. The source?
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:12 pm

I'm done editing that large post above.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mowk » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:26 pm

The source of your atheism. It is a fine place to be if you can guess how you got there. If you can find the source of how you've gotten there, then you will have learned a little more about the source. Rinse, repeat.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:38 pm

Mowk wrote:The source of your atheism. It is a fine place to be if you can guess how you got there. If you can find the source of how you've gotten there, then you will have learned a little more about the source. Rinse, repeat.

The absence of anything godly or divine on earth and throughout the universe.

I'm still waiting for your reply on my post above.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mowk » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:48 pm

Yes, I am frustrating for most to read because I am a cynic, pessimist, nihilist, and overall doubting naysayer. If I leave people a terrible distaste in their mouth after reading my philosophy that's the whole entire point of it. I am the hope destroyer and annihilator.

I'm a negator, it's what I do.

I brought up scientism because you strike me as somebody that believes in it.

I'm not a McCarthyist as I don't very much care for state sponsored capitalism either.

I don't believe in racial superiority or supremacy. If anything I'm a racial relativist.

Posing as what exactly?


All the improvements in civilization are enjoyed equally by everyone?


Does a manikin pose as something or are they articulated to be striking a pose? Like someone selling prom dresses might articulate a pose to look like dancing at a prom.

That's really the only question I see. The last comment appears more like a statement of belief with a question mark tacked on.

Yes, I am frustrating for most to read because I am a cynic, pessimist, nihilist, and overall doubting naysayer. If I leave people a terrible distaste in their mouth after reading my philosophy that's the whole entire point of it. I am the hope destroyer and annihilator.


I could question the "because", but, live and let live. You can identify yourself how ever you want.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:01 pm

Mowk wrote:
Yes, I am frustrating for most to read because I am a cynic, pessimist, nihilist, and overall doubting naysayer. If I leave people a terrible distaste in their mouth after reading my philosophy that's the whole entire point of it. I am the hope destroyer and annihilator.

I'm a negator, it's what I do.

I brought up scientism because you strike me as somebody that believes in it.

I'm not a McCarthyist as I don't very much care for state sponsored capitalism either.

I don't believe in racial superiority or supremacy. If anything I'm a racial relativist.

Posing as what exactly?


All the improvements in civilization are enjoyed equally by everyone?


Does a manikin pose as something or are they articulated to be striking a pose? Like someone selling prom dresses might articulate a pose to look like dancing at a prom.

That's really the only question I see. The last comment appears more like a statement of belief with a question mark tacked on.

I don't understand why you're talking about mannequins or why you won't address what I've posted.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mowk » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:04 pm

I'm going to take a short break, in the mean time, could you try not putting anymore quarters in the jukebox.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:11 pm

What about Merlin vs. Trixie?

My debate is, why does Merlin say he doesn't care about ethics, but fights more against tyranny and bad ethics than Christians and supposed moral people who supposedly care about ethics?

I think I know the answer to this, but I want to know if Merlin does.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mowk » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:30 pm

"I don't understand why you're talking about mannequins or why you won't address what I've posted."


It was a metaphor. Just like posing, and dancing and putting coins into jukeboxes is an analogy using metaphors as it constituents.

Yes, I am frustrating for most to read because I am a cynic, pessimist, nihilist, and overall doubting naysayer. If I leave people a terrible distaste in their mouth after reading my philosophy that's the whole entire point of it. I am the hope destroyer and annihilator.

I'm a negator, it's what I do.

I brought up scientism because you strike me as somebody that believes in it.

I'm not a McCarthyist as I don't very much care for state sponsored capitalism either.

I don't believe in racial superiority or supremacy. If anything I'm a racial relativist.


You say you are frustrating because you are a cynic, pessimist, nihilist and overall doubting naysayer. That may work for some but it still wouldn't be a reason.

You say if you leave people a terrible distaste in their mouth after reading your philosophy that's the whole entire point of it. You are the hope destroyer and annihilator.

If I sat you down in an art class and had you draw for me the model and still life, how well would you do? Would the image you draw have a reflective like quality, or would it be poorly constructed with hard lines and twisted perspective, no matter how hard you tried? There have been books written on the subject. Well the problem is you are not drawing upon what you are seeing, you are labeling things and drawing them as symbols. So I am frustrated not by the fact you claim to be these things, I am frustrated that you aren't demonstrating for me the reason for your cynicism and its rationale or what you believe is the meaning in them as title.

Lets say for example, I have always wanted to be a cynic since I was but a child. And I find this man on a street corner claiming to be the best cynic possible. Well I have always wanted to be a cynic so I take some note and as I listen to him all I seem to hear are claims of being a cynic under this circumstance and how he totally destroyed as a cynic under that circumstance. As time goes by I never become an any better cynic. I challenge him on his role and he blames me for not being an adept student. He never once spoke of the arguments themselves he just made reference to all his philosophy with its labels and jargon, but never got around to actually drawing me the picture in a reflective like quality. Couldn't draw a map to it if it was a treasure buried under golden arches.

I brought up scientism because you strike me as somebody that believes in it.


Which I addressed with "and you let me know quite squarely, that you are critical of scientism, but you don't recognize I'm not advocating for scientism. (Rather like I wasn't advocating for censorship, but you were going to blame me for it regardless.)"

I'm not a McCarthyist as I don't very much care for state sponsored capitalism either.

I don't see the two as mutually exclusive.

I don't believe in racial superiority or supremacy. If anything I'm a racial relativist

What was that whole subspecies evolutionary thing you mentioned so briefly and without detail. That might be a direction you could more thoroughly address if there is any future in this.

You seem to claim to be a lot of labels, but haven't shared any of the thought and reason why you think anyone would want to be these things. Why it would be an example of a "good" fight to be caught in.

You have mentioned Anarchy and that it appeals to you but you haven't mentioned any particular reasoning behind it. I am fairly certain if we both wrote a short essay on Anarchy our responses would be sufficiently different to validate the label Anarchism, on its own, simply isn't much more than a symbol.

Draw me a map, or dance me a dance or sing me a song or just hum a few bars and I might get a better ideas of what you're actually talking about. I have no idea how you would get the impression I think only knowledge acquired through a scientific practice is what can be thought of as knowledge. Metaphors are art man, not no stinking science, but a metaphor still can't calculate quadrilateral equations or explain how you can communicated through space with little more than a few transistors, compactors, resistors and a small bit of power.

I am far more interested in what you believe then what you don't.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mowk » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:06 am

...your source?
The absence of anything godly or divine on earth and throughout the universe.


I believe I agree with you, more than you might imagine.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mowk » Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:17 pm

Should have said "in ways" you might not imagine.

I guess I was asking "what drives you?" What are the dynamics at play. What experiences have you had to make you believe knowledge derived through science isn't the only knowledge? WendyDarling is a blast. She reminds me a little of my wife; feisty. Could be a relationship that lasts for years. Coming up on our 30 that is something to look forward too.

when asking questions of source, you could even think of what fuels you, (in a metabolic way) and pizza would be an as appropriate an answer as any.

That's the sort of shit that comes my way when there is so little science in play. Do you or don't you have to balance?

You can be fun to talk with. And from a depressed sort of state that thinks that is the base line it is refreshing, even if you have to claim to feign civility. It remains impressive that you can.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:23 am

Mowk wrote
WendyDarling is a blast. She reminds me a little of my wife; feisty. Could be a relationship that lasts for years. Coming up on our 30 that is something to look forward too.


:romance-heartbeating: Aaaaw Mowk, may you and your feisty, love goddess have 30 more too.
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Re: Merlin VS. Mowk

Postby Mowk » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:08 am

This is the nicest reply I've gotten so far on all of ILP. Thanks.
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