What aren't you doing?

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What aren't you doing?

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:22 am

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I've been guided somewhat by William Blake's quote: "I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create". Just change 'system' for 'style'. - Bill

The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:56 am

Perfect thread for you. You could go on posting in this thread without an end in sight, for you really aren't doing anything, you never really are doing anything, you truly are bored, you are wasting your time, you are wasting everyone's time, you are a waste of time.
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:18 am

Magnus Anderson wrote:Perfect thread for you. You could go on posting in this thread without an end in sight, for you really aren't doing anything, you never really are doing anything, you truly are bored, you are wasting your time, you are wasting everyone's time, you are a waste of time.

Im glad you came on board again just to tell me this. You must have been even boreder than I am making you.
The logic of boredom is unfathomable.
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:21 am

I wasn't bored. I was just looking for a wrong to right. I need to this. It helps in a way. It makes you stronger. It helps you strengthen the idea that what is wrong is wrong and what is right is right.

But is that really what happened? Or did I simply stumble upon a wrong?

I simply stumbled upon a wrong.

You have a habit of trying to belittle every little negative thing that is said to you. You might think this makes you smart, but in actuality, it makes you stupid. There is a point to what I am saying.

I don't like you for the simple reason that you radiate weakness, this weakness being your perpetual lack of interest in disciplining yourself. You are just too relaxed. Don't bother retorting. I know what you're going to say. You're going to say something like "but I am disciplined because [insert something that requires discipline]". It does not matter even if it is true, for discipline is something that has to be maintained in continuity. There must be consistence. And you apparently lack such a consistence.
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:27 am

You have to understand me. There is very little discipline in this day and age. Everyone is undisciplined. And the first step in making the world closer to being disciplined is to go on the Internet, find some random forums, and then tell undisciplined people that they are undisciplined and that they should go fuck themselves if they do not want to discipline themselves. Changing the world one step at a time, this is my motto.

Monks have far more discipline than you do. Monks, therefore, are higher species than you are. Can you imagine? Monks being greater than your self-valuing self?
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:30 am

For the start, I recommend meditation.

I got a philosophy degree, I'm not upset that I can't find work as a philosopher. It was my decision, and I knew that it wasn't a money making degree, so I get money elsewhere.
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:34 pm

I'm not meditating.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:48 am

I'm not buying that
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I've been guided somewhat by William Blake's quote: "I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create". Just change 'system' for 'style'. - Bill

The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:09 am

Magnus Anderson wrote:You have to understand me. There is very little discipline in this day and age. Everyone is undisciplined. And the first step in making the world closer to being disciplined is to go on the Internet, find some random forums, and then tell undisciplined people that they are undisciplined and that they should go fuck themselves if they do not want to discipline themselves. Changing the world one step at a time, this is my motto.

Monks have far more discipline than you do. Monks, therefore, are higher species than you are. Can you imagine? Monks being greater than your self-valuing self?

Monks?

No, I cant imagine that.

Are you a monk?
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:12 am

In the end only people who are psychotic are not meditating. Anyone who is rooted in himself is meditating profoundly. No matter how much yoga and zen you try to train, it is your inborn will that determines the depth you can reach.

Once you meditate deeply enough you see that the silliness of mankind is enough to be happily laughing forever. Osho, Zorba the Buddha as he called himself. Cool guy.
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:24 am

Osho was a New Age fag.
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby The Golden Turd » Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:12 pm

Honestly, why is Osho mentioned so much on this forum? He doesn't deserve this much attention. Why him, over any other? There were at least a dozen internationally well known gurus back in the 20th century not associated with bioterrorism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Ra ... ror_attack
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:16 pm

Because Osho is a Nietzschean. He also has some good advice on how to master sex drive.
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby The Golden Turd » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:25 pm

Is he?

I've only read half a text purporting to be a Upanisad supposedly by him, was horribly bored by it. He didn't stand out as a Nietzsche an too much, but then again I wasn't bothering to read too deeply into it, was skimming to find the interesting part, couldn't find it.

Was a PDF from a few years back.
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby The Golden Turd » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:27 pm

Where the hell is the cool vs shithead thread you started? I wanted to finish my post before going to sleep but haven't found it, searched the site twice.
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:32 pm

To the extent that a mystic can be a Nietzschean, yes. This means minus the power aspect, though his private life might not have been such.

He is too hung up on "joah".
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Harbal » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:53 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:I wasn't bored. I was just looking for a wrong to right. .

Do you wear a suit of armour when you go off on your wrong righting quests?
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby The Golden Turd » Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:29 pm

I'm not questioning him being a mystic, and Nietzsche was a mystic at times. What I'm questioning is, how well did he know Nietzsche? A lot of the Indians I've known who like Nietzsche only like him because he spoke fondly of their religion, but they seem to understand him as much as he understood them.... which is only in passing, without much insight. Exceptions exist, I can point to followers of Aurobindo being both intelligent and generally we read in regards to Nietzsche, and they can qualify as Nietzscheans, but they intentional try to avoid the more assinine and backwards aspects of Nietzsche's thought.

https://www.asianreflection.com/superman.shtml

I first encountered them in San Francisco at a Indian multicultural organization on Geary, once in a great while I will get a email from them. Not everyone is one, but they hold occasional talks on him. One of the few times I've encountered generally good hearted and enlightened Nietzscheans. Very rare, the entire philosophy is designed to defeat and destroy it's users. They made something positive of it.
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Chakra Superstar » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:18 pm

Turd Ferguson wrote:I'm not questioning him being a mystic, and Nietzsche was a mystic at times. What I'm questioning is, how well did he know Nietzsche? A lot of the Indians I've known who like Nietzsche only like him because he spoke fondly of their religion, but they seem to understand him as much as he understood them.... which is only in passing, without much insight.
<snip>

Osho was well acquainted with Nietzsche; he was a professor of Philosophy.

Osho liked a lot of Nietzsche’s insights, his indomitable individualism and powerful will, but he saw Nietzsche as simply swapping a dead god for a dead mind.

Osho’s favourite western philosopher was Heraclitus though, here too, he said his insights only took him so far. Heraclitus focused on the river never being the same, whereas Osho was more interested in the ever changing man standing in the river.




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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Chakra Superstar » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:35 pm

What aren't you doing?
Fixed Cross wrote:Image


What aren't I doing?
This. (It's the same guy)
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:18 am

I am not exactly an expert on Osho. I've read a book he wrote ("From Sex to Superconsciousness"), read bits of what he wrote here and there, and watched a bunch of videos of him speaking on YouTube. That's it.

Nonetheless, I can say with confidence that he's a Nietzschean, albeit not a proper one.

He was a mystic after all. You know what a mystic is? Someone who uses intuition in order to understand what is beyond the material.

Schopenhauer was a mystic, not Nietzsche.

Schopenhauer believed there is a metaphysical will underlying all existence. That's the basis of every mysticism: the idea that there is some kind of force underlying, and uniting, all of the existence. (There are many other names for it, such as Being, Life Force, Mind Force, Elan Vital, Superconsciousness, God, Qi, Prana, Love, Sympathy, Stillness, Neutral Center, Magnetism, Electricity, Spirit, Essence, Energy, Divinity, and so on and so forth.)

Nietzsche rejected mysticism. He endorsed intuition, that is true, but not that of mystics. Indeed, his entire philosophy was based on this opposition to mysticism.

You can say that Osho was a "good hearted" Nietzschean, though he was not as "good hearted" as other New Age Nietzscheans are (e.g. he thought that homosexuality was a perversion, insisted on absolute birth control, and was pro euthanization of disabled and retarded children.)

Nietzsche wasn't "bad hearted" as many people think, as you seem to think, but he wasn't "good hearted" either.

Nietzsche was in essense a revival of the warrior spirit. Osho borrowed a lot from him, but he was opposed to this warrior spirit.

New Agers, in general, whether they are Nietzscheans or not, it should be obvious, are opposed to the warrior spirit.

Their understanding of Nietzsche is nothing but a fantasy that suits their expectations.

Osho speaks of "New Man". This is supposed to be his Overman, but it isn't really, since his Overman is literally a new man, i.e. a man without a history.

This is a recurring theme among New Agers, the idea that men should evolve into purely spiritual beings.

Osho endorsed the opposition to Christians, he recognized the problem of sexual repression, he evolved and offered various techniques of sexual meditation, he celebrated freedom, he understood that most people are running away from who they are, but he was nonetheless an ahistorical man.

This is evident from his celebration of the present moment, but most importantly, from his opposition to BOUNDARIES of any sort.

Family unit, marriage, nations . . . these should all disappear, apparently because they are too strict.

Boundaries are always set by who we were in the past. And when I say past I mean past beyond our individual past. I mean the collective past of our ancestors.

You do not become free by transcending the boundaries.

Osho simply transcended the boundaries, and of course, what this led him to is FANTASY LAND.

Whereas Nietzsche endorsed POWER, Osho endorsed LOVE.

Whereas Nietzsche endorsed HARSHNESS, Osho endorsed COMPASSION.

Whereas Nietzsche endorsed PAIN, Osho endorsed JOAH. ("Joah" is how Indians pronounce "joy", apparently.)

They place too much emphasis on meditation.

Meditation is just a means. A means to decentrate. A means to decentrate in order to enhance concentration.

Osho recognized the problem of EXCESSIVE concentration that was plaguing the modern era (in Nietzsche's terms, the excessive Apollonian tendency.)

The problem with excessive concentration is that, past a certain point, concentration becomes decentered. The original flow of energies becomes divided into multiple flows. The central flow continues, but the peripheral flows do not. This leads to repression -- the accumulation of tension within the body.

What Osho and many other people figured out (among them the school of body psychotherapists that sprung out from the work of Wilhelm Reich) is that, by dissolving the energy flow, by decentering it, one can eliminate this tension.

The mistake they made is that they got addicted to this state.

Instead of decentering in order to gather together the divided flows, they simply decided to remain within, and to celebrate, this diluted state of energies.

They then gave it a name such as GOD.

And thus pacifists were born.

Osho denies being a pacifist, but only for the reason that pacifists are focusing on the future. He is a man who lives wholly inside the present.

So what did Osho do to resolve the excessive Apollonian tendency? To overthrow it with excessive Dionysian tendency.

Concentration must be immediately balanced with decentration. The shorter the periods between the two, the better. The longer, the worse.

Modern age is characterized as bipolar precisely for this: due to the two phases being considerably temporally separated.

One works hard from Monday to Friday in order to party hard from Friday to Sunday. That's not natural.

There is no natural build up and release of energy.

There is, quite simply, no concentrated energy anymore. All energy is decentered, is decentering continually, until its complete disappearance.

In Baudrillard's terms, we are living in an age of premature ejaculators.

Osho, thus, should be seen as a grown up spoiled child. He's impressive precisely because he isn't merely a spoiled child: he's also a grown up to a large extent.

Here's some "good hearted" interpretation of Nietzsche:
http://oshosearch.net/Convert/Articles_ ... 00029.html

And here's some shamanic "trance dance" ritual:

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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby The Golden Turd » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:40 am

Sorry, you must have a cock in your ear due to your apparent hearing impairment: Nietzsche was also sometimes a mystic.

Nonetheless, I can say with confidence that he's a Nietzschean, albeit not a proper one.


Thats reassuring. A proper Nietzsche gets killed off at the getgo. Its why I turned so hostile to the ideas he advocated in Iraq.

I'm not under the delusion all his influence will die off, but his main mass has no choice but to, as it is inherently incompatible with long term survival, it is only the philosophy of the dying, of those trying to.

I doubt Osho's unifying concept of live was that of the Stoics, in which community ethics is founded upon. Might be just as kinky as the earlier varients. I'm guessing Osho just inducted a bunch of tantric assumptions in and informed his top payers they were transcedentally aware.

Before you lecture me on your brilliant insights, read this short essay. I know a hell of a lot more than you think others can know, armed with your three Nietzsche commentaries as a instant expert. At least Sauwelios and Cezar tried to show they were broadly read.

https://www.asianreflection.com/superman.shtml

Says everything you said. Fucking amazing....
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:34 pm

Chakra Superstar wrote:What aren't you doing?
Fixed Cross wrote:Image


What aren't I doing?
This. (It's the same guy)
Image

Not doing that either. Still. Im not eating anymore either. Had a great breakfast and paid the rent in 20's. Im not not sweating. Its fucking hot here and I have no pool.
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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby Pandora » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:11 pm

Turd Ferguson wrote:I'm not questioning him being a mystic, and Nietzsche was a mystic at times.


Osho was a drug addict too. And what's a difference between a mystic and a drug addict? Many drug addicts claim to be mystics too.

Image

Rajneesh used prescription drugs, mainly Valium (diazepam), as an analgesic for his aches and pains and to counter the symptoms of dysautonomia (dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system). At his peak usage, Rajneesh took the maximum recommended dose of 60 milligrams per day, a dose so high that it is usually only prescribed for the short term treatment of the seriously mentally ill. Patients who take Valium regularly build up a resistance to the drug over time, and higher and higher doses are needed to maintain its stress relieving, hypnotic effects. Rajneesh also inhaled nitrous oxide (N2O) mixed with pure oxygen, which he claimed increased his creativity. [See Swami Parmartha's essay, Osho in the Dental Chair, about Osho's habitual nitrous oxide use, published in Sannyas News - http://www.sannyasnews.com/ PART 1 PART 2 ] The nitrous oxide probably did relieve the sensation of severe exhaustion and suffocation patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome often feel, but it did nothing for the quality of his judgment. Naive about the power of drugs, and overconfident of his ability to fight off their negative effects, Rajneesh succumbed to addiction.

A number of disciples have claimed that Rajneesh was so intoxicated at his Oregon ranch in the 1980s that he sometimes urinated in the halls of his own home, just as heroin addicts and common drunks often do. I believe this to be true, as the last time I saw Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh he was inebriated to the point of becoming physically ugly. He had the same washed-out look and foolish behavior I had witnessed in drug addicts while working at a methadone clinic in the United States. Rajneesh had miraculous mental power, but he was an ordinary human being physically, and he could not tolerate the devastating effects of large doses of tranquilizers.

On top of Rajneesh's physical illness, his massive intake of Valium caused paranoia and greatly reduced reasoning skills. Valium addicts often think the CIA or some other unseen villains are plotting against them, so it is not surprising that he imagined that he was poisoned by the United States Government. His reasoning powers became so damaged that Rajneesh actually considered moving to Russia to combine his totalitarian form of spirituality with Russian communism, an idea no sane man could possibly entertain. Rajneesh publicly called for the assassination of Michael Gorbachev, because Gorbachev was moving Russia to Western style capitalism instead of Rajneesh's own brand of "spiritual communism." Historically, Valium has been the drug of choice for CFS sufferers as it masks the unnerving symptoms of dysautonomia and helps bring sleep. Rajneesh suffered from insomnia, another classic symptom of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

Rajneesh was a physically ill man who became mentally corrupt. His brief experimentation with LSD only made matters worse. Rajneesh's drug use and addiction was a problem of his own making, not a government conspiracy. Rajneesh died in 1990 with heart failure listed as the official cause of death. It is probable that the physical decline Rajneesh experienced during his incarceration in American jails was due to a combination of withdrawal symptoms from his Valium addiction and an aggravation of his Chronic Fatigue Syndrome due to stress and exposure to allergens.

After Rajneesh's humiliation and downfall in America, he declared that he was "Jesus crucified by Ronald Reagan's America." In truth, Rajneesh was a drug addicted guru who self-destructed because of his own wrong actions. Comparing himself to Jesus was doubly dishonest, as he himself had no respect for Jesus. He once undiplomatically proclaimed to the American media that everything Jesus said was "just crazy."

"I went through the abandoned city of Rajneeshpuram and saw things that were almost unbelievable. Ma Anand Sheela's headquarters, a group of mobile homes pieced together, was a hive of secret doors and hidden tunnels, her private room a command post with electronic listening gear tapped into every room in the development. The Bhagwan's parquet-paneled quarters had nitrogen oxide spigots by his bedside, and was surrounded by huge bathrooms with multiple showers." — Jim Weaver, former Oregon Congressman
In the 1998 preface to Books I Have Loved, Rajneesh's (Osho's) personal dentist, Swami Devageet, states that Osho dictated three books under the influence of nitrous oxide. They were Books I Have Loved, Glimpses of a Golden Childhood, and Notes of a Madman. Referring to his own nitrous oxide use, Rajneesh himself stated that "Actually oxygen and nitrogen are basic elements of existence. They can be of much use, but for reasons the politicians have been against chemicals of all kinds, all drugs." Ma Anand Sheela, Rajneesh's personal secretary, publicly stated on the CBS news show 60 Minutes that Rajneesh took 60 milligrams of Valium every day. Hugh Milne, Rajneesh's head bodyguard, confirmed Rajneesh's heavy Valium use, as did Swami Devageet. The FBI knew that Rajneesh was a Valium and nitrous oxide addict from their own investigations, and that fact was published in newspapers around the USA, including articles in "THE OREGONIAN" and "THE NEW YORK TIMES." There is no doubt that Rajneesh became a drug addict except in the minds of passionate Osho followers who don't want to admit the painful truth.
Rajneesh once jokingly referred to himself as "the rubber hose Buddha," because he was always inhaling nitrous oxide through a rubber hose. Rajneesh did not seem to realize that becoming a drug addict not only devalued himself as a teacher, but to some extend discredited the very concept of anyone becoming a "Buddha." If even an enlightened Buddha needs drugs to get high, then what value is there in becoming "enlightened" at all?

"People call me an ‘enlightened man’ -- I detest that term -- they can’t find any other word to describe the way I am functioning. At the same time, I point out that there is no such thing as enlightenment at all. I say that because all my life I’eve searched and wanted to be an enlightened man, and I discovered that there is no such thing as enlightenment at all, and so the question whether a particular person is enlightened or not does not arise. I don’t give a hoot for a sixth-century-BC Buddha, let alone all the other claimants we have in our midst. They are a bunch of exploiters, thriving on the gullibility of the people. There is no power outside of man. Man has created God out of fear. So the problem is fear and not God." — U.G. Krishnamurti
Upon his sudden death in 1990, there was much media speculation that Rajneesh had committed suicide by taking an overdose of drugs. As no disciple has confessed to giving Rajneesh a lethal injection, there is no hard evidence to support the suicide theory. A compelling circumstantial case could be made for such a scenario, however, with suicide provoked by Rajneesh's constant ill health and disheartenment over the loss of Vivek, his greatest love.

http://meditation-handbook.50webs.com/osho2.html

Nietzsche is said to have used hashish, opium, and potassium bromide (nervous system sedative). Note, both of them had 'valid medical reasons' for using the drugs.

Even under the influence of the narcotic draught, of which songs of all primitive men and peoples speak, or with the potent coming of spring that penetrates all nature with joy, these Dionysian emotions awake, and as they grow in intensity everything subjective vanishes into complete self-forgetfulness. In the German Middle Ages, too, singing and dancing crowds, ever increasing in number, whirled themselves from place to place under this same Dionysian impulse. [...] There are some who, from obtuseness or lack of experience, turn away from such phenomena as from "folk-diseases," with contempt or pity born of consciousness of their own "healthy-mindedness." But of course such poor wretches have no idea how corpselike and ghostly their so-called "healthy-mindedness" looks when the glowing life of the Dionysian revelers roars past them. -Nietzsche

If a man wishes to rid himself of a feeling of unbearable oppression, he may have to take to Hashish.-Nietzsche


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It didn't end very well for both of them. Do you want to use them as your role models and do you want to end the same way?



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Re: What aren't you doing?

Postby The Golden Turd » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:35 pm

I honestly haven't come across sources I trust that list Nietzsche's drug use.... one guy here offered some evidence in the past (an example) but I don't push that issue too much cause physicians were giving out all sorts of crazy addictive shit, even testing it on themselves to see if it was safe. INTJs do admittedly have health obsessions.... it can get absurd and Nietzsche tried most everything to rid himself of his syphilius.

Ironically, when he was vat shit crazy storing his own poop and eating it, had they not taken it from him and had it molded over with penicillin, could of cured him.

I am not really too surprised this guy was drugged up though (osho). Half of India is hooked on something.... they sing praise of Soma, so don't really have qualms seeking a substitute. Doesn't do much for them though.... which is why the other half insist on renouncing drugs.

If you need the drugs for actual medical reasons, so be it, but if all the drug is, us a shortcut to a kind of cognition, your better off without it. Better to develop your own internal faculties on your own. I presume LSD and other drugs are very intense to experience, but also observe users more or less die off intellectually as a result. It isn't good for the mind. A sober and well homed, disciplined mine is capable of doing much more. Drugs meant to provide shortcuts, like the Golden Dawn sometimes advocate, I'm against. You need to know how the modes of mind link up and organically function instead of just arriving through a pill.... the end result is a shadow of how the mind should be experienced when it is functionally working. Most mystics with a philosophical bent east and west put in decades of effort in meditation and study to achieve new awareness. They did the hard work, learned the ins and outs of various aspects of one region of the mind before moving on to the next. The drug experience is highly unlikely to get you to a useable spot. People often say they are smarter, but just seem dumber.
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