The Philosophers

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:35 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Kriya thread toward clear purpose Kriya thread toward clear purpose - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Oct 19, 2012 10:00 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I think it was as much myself as James who broke the order the second time, even though it was technically James again who broke it. For I felt like I was breaking it when I made that post about, among other things, eternity. As for Capable's idea of splitting threads, that had crossed my mind as well.

James, you say:

James S Saint wrote:
Amasopher wrote:
Unless lack of appeal and/or of acceptance threatens his own very experience, of course.
That would in fact be MY reasoning.
As I said, my concern is the immutability that maintains the momentum of that "eternal experiencing".
As it turns out, other people are a major issue in the mutability of projects or groups like this.

Other interests might be along the lines of the proposed "improvement of the world".
To me, that problem gets resolved shortly after you establish the immutability bit, without additional effort.
Perfect your own house and then maybe consider messing with other people's lives.
My problem is precisely the step from the perfection of one's own house to messing with other people's lives. Now, that you say with such certainty that this problem gets resolved without additional effort after one perfects one's own house suggests that you have experienced such (an) occurrence(s). If this is the case, can you put that experience into words?



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PostSubject: Re: Kriya thread toward clear purpose Kriya thread toward clear purpose - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Oct 19, 2012 3:46 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
I am having serious doubts about my decision to allow for this break in the order.
Because: what may be resolution of an issue for one may be the introduction of twenty issues for the other.I fear that this new development is not in the interest of all participants and thus also0 not fo the group. I am waiting for their (dis)confirmation

Sorry about the chaos, this is very difficult to manage.

I am not sure if the rules had even been understood.
The rule was

- 1 post per round
- A round means: all 4 posters have made 1 posts (in no particular order)

James, did you break this rule deliberately?

Oops...
Sorry again. As I explained in PM, I can't tell at what point you are intending what.
I thought that you were asking for confirmation on the prior issue and introducing the next.
So I gave my confirmation and addressed "the next". I was expecting the same from others.
If there is a numbered order of who is first, second, third, and so on, I missed that.

But tell you what... I give up. From now on, how about just send me a PM letting me know when it is my turn. Don't try to explain when my turn will be, just say, "Your up to talk about xxx". I'll take it from there. Until then I'll stay quite.
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PostSubject: Re: Kriya thread toward clear purpose Kriya thread toward clear purpose - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Oct 20, 2012 4:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Never mind then - obviously it is not going to work if the rules are too complicated (for the record, they are in the OP).

We will stick to the idea I proposed recently, that we do it point per point, and I continue with the response James made to my proposition that we deal with the question of momentum and immutability, and our relationship to eternity.

Quote :
The two most powerful, immutable forces literally in the entire universe are;
1) the Black Hole which has but two potential adversaries; other Black-Holes and
2) Life.

Life has Perception, Sentience, and Influence. Both the Black-Hole and Life are made of much smaller and somewhat chaotic components within. Both tend to expire what they have and gain more with which to replace what is lost. The Black-Hole tends to gain more than it loses and thus grows to unimaginable size but loses its mobility in the process.

Life can perceive the Black-Hole, avoid its threats, and influence threats upon it, as it can with anything as long as it has the environment with which to do so. Life requires materials and tools with which to influence the materials into strategic positions whereas the Black-Hole merely absorbs everything into its internal chaos.

Although within life, just as within the Black-Hole, components compete with each other, the results of such devoted contention is the stability of the whole. Within both Life and the Black-Hole there is immeasurable momentum. The physical distinction is merely that one collects all humus into one central location while the other strategically distributes its components.

Both strive to maintain their fundamental structure and thus survive. That which maintains its harmony (its structure) cannot perish.

So I propose that since we are already a form of life that would be seriously threatened by anything resembling a Black-Hole type of entity, anything that could absorb and/or disintegrate us, that we form the group also as a form of life.

Make the group into the form of a living organism that is made of living organisms, namely us.

If accepted, how to do this isn't difficult to explain (I hope).

I can confirm the principles exhibited here. All I have to add to this now is that it is evidently (evident also by the content of this post) crucial that we use a structural order in which all of us 'naturally fit'. The structure proposed in the OP has been proven to not be the natural structure of this particular group.

The structural principle on which this group is based must be something we all agree on - according to my reading, what qualifies is the idea of isolating issues, confirming them, and moving on.

I'd be tempted to formulate some form of notation, but that will probably be too difficult to maintain as well.

The issue that is not yet resolved fully to me is
The experience of the eternal vis a vis eternal experience.

The latter pertains to momentum and immutability, the former to a philosophical state of mind/being.
Perhaps they are, in reality, the same. I can not confirm this yet.

I have elsewhere envisioned these combined as "absolutization of the bestowing virtue". The terms is probably most relevant to Amasopher. I wonder it makes sense to him.

I am also curious to James' response to Amasophers question.

All participants are from now on and indefinitely free to post at will.





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PostSubject: Re: Kriya thread toward clear purpose Kriya thread toward clear purpose - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 23, 2012 5:24 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I meant to post the following post in this thread, but accidentally posted it in the other Kriya thread.

---------------------------------------------------

To leave all the confusion behind us, I am going ahead and posit a set of statements for you all to kill or make stronger trying.


- Something must exist because "nothing" excludes the active impossibility of something.

- Self-valuing is not merely descriptive of entities that can be rationally declared to exist, but it is also implied by the nature of that all that can be observed and declared to exist, including 'force' or affectance - potential to change.

- The smallest self-valuing is able only to value in terms of itself negatively. It's "valuing" is a deflection of which it is not.

- As two different self-valuings deflect nothingness, two things are created:
• Space, (the mutually deflected, mutual nothingess, rudimentary 'value')
• affectance - deflecting of positive not-selves.



For James specifically:

- Affectance is self-valuing-interaction.

- A self-valuing is even in 'a grain of noise' - as soon as noise starts to affect other noise, there is differentiation, and this implies 'thingness' something is differentiated from something.

- The fact of difference precludes absolute dissolution.



Back to the main set:

-In the case of affectance, self-valuings value each other negatively in terms of their structural nature as deflectors, but they do behave similarly, and are thus perform similar actions. All deflect both nothingness, and each other.

- What comes to exist like this is any geometrical form. The simplest form to imagine is the circle: all self-valuings deflect each other "to the side", while simultaneously deflecting nothingess inward and outward. "Affectance fields" are circular, with the force distributed in the 'border'. Inward it is 'weak'.

- Such organizations of nothingness-deflectings may emerge so as the come into contact with each other. Due to the quantity of affect of such organizations, the greater things that come into each others proximity are, the more different they are from each other, and stronger they are deflected. But in some cases, the deflected negative existence of a 'sphere of affect' is so great that smaller spheres are drawn to deflect it as well, and 'join the circle', the affect-field. In that case, the affect field, a 'form', grows and is able to absorb even greater 'others'.

- The deflection of nothingness is the first priority. In the image of the deflection imprinted on itself, the self-valuing recognizes itself. This creates the terms of it's self-valuing' - it's standard of value.

- Such a standard can be recognized by other entities, and deflected (negatively valued) as well.

- Two co-deflecting self-valuings "come to terms", they positively value each other in terms of their own self-valuing (their deflecting nothingess), but as negative. They repel each other while positively 'recognizing' the object of negative valuation.

- This is why when we value in terms of our self-valuing; when we value, we 'push' - the greater the 'fight', the greater the resistance to nothingness. We seek to overpower, but first and foremost we seek to engage, that whichever 'speaks to us', is also inevitably that which has the power to absorb us.

- Survival as a form depends on capacity to translate that which is appropriated in the circle of affect in terms of the pre-existing form. "Selective forms" remain, other forms are respectively dissolved or transformed into selective forms. Sometimes selective forms are overpowered by far greater, but far less selective forms.

- The more selective a form is in what it can 'use' in terms of deflecting nothingness, the more capable it is to resist change.

- The more selective a form is, the more specific it's terms by which it values, and the more specific it's self-valuing.

- Man is a supremely selective form. The more selective man is, the more we can speak of a 'self'.

- Becoming conscious of being as self-valuing means: establishing a finalized Being. It means to have defeated the chance of being transformed by the very nature of being (deflecting non-being) itself - "imprinting being on becoming".



There are much more consequences to draw here but I can now just manage a few observations on morality and custom:

- From this perspective, morality is no longer a matter of adopting custom to ensure survival but risking unseen compromise of structural integrity, but of either inventing means to expand ones realm of influence (to attempt to transform the world according to ones self-value, to be able to value it more), or, where conditions allow it, simply maintaining oneself.

- Buddha realized the first nature of being - deflecting non being - nirvana as "being nor non-being", means "affect nor non being". It is however, being in the sense of deflection ("transcendental clarity"). It does not however contain the power to defend itself or resist the force of other structures from incorporating it. Kung fu has arisen to remain transcendently self-valuing and resist that which is to be valued as negative. Yoga is the simple resisting of resistance - dissolving the circle of affect (society, the roles one has to play to 'defend the family/country' etc) in order to 'face the void alone'. But it is still relatively affective, since the human body doesn't dissolve as long as all of it's atoms and subatomic instances affect independently 'attain nirvana'.

- "Spiritualized "martial" art but also dance is therefore more 'peaceful' toward the fact of existence, and more effective in maintaining structural integrity from which to deflect the void.

- All temples and religious orders represent spiritualized martial art, selectively organized deflection of the void.



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PostSubject: Re: Kriya thread toward clear purpose Kriya thread toward clear purpose - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 23, 2012 6:46 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Amasopher wrote:
My problem is precisely the step from the perfection of one's own house to messing with other people's lives. Now, that you say with such certainty that this problem gets resolved without additional effort after one perfects one's own house suggests that you have experienced such (an) occurrence(s). If this is the case, can you put that experience into words?
Well, this gets into How it is done. In effect it is the topic of how to "mess with other people's lives"... without effort.
Is that really the priority?

In general terms, that subject is introduced in the Science thread Chemistry through a lens of perspectivism

But if the aim is merely to mess with other people without even knowing what your are yourself, then there is a problem.

I think we need to focus on what we want to be ourselves and what it takes to ensure that, not what we might want to do to others. If all we want to be is the power to dominate, control, or "mess with" others.... that is a problem.

This issue is addressed here.. The Equation for Space;
Quote :
.
.
.
A man once asked, “what do you do with 300 million insane people?” I now must ask, “what do you do with 6.5 billion of them?” Let them see the futures they propose? Will that bring sanity among them? Will that inspire true rationality in Man for perhaps the first time? “Close enough” is going to make him extinct. That part is already foreseeable.
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PostSubject: Re: Kriya thread toward clear purpose Kriya thread toward clear purpose - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 24, 2012 5:48 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
- Something must exist because "nothing" excludes the active impossibility of something.
If "nothing" excludes the active impossibility of something, it also excludes any possibility of something, and therefore does not necessitate its existence.


James S Saint wrote:
Amasopher wrote:
My problem is precisely the step from the perfection of one's own house to messing with other people's lives. Now, that you say with such certainty that this problem gets resolved without additional effort after one perfects one's own house suggests that you have experienced such (an) occurrence(s). If this is the case, can you put that experience into words?
Well, this gets into How it is done. In effect it is the topic of how to "mess with other people's lives"... without effort.
Is that really the priority?

In general terms, that subject is introduced in the Science thread Chemistry through a lens of perspectivism

But if the aim is merely to mess with other people without even knowing what your are yourself, then there is a problem.

I think we need to focus on what we want to be ourselves and what it takes to ensure that, not what we might want to do to others. If all we want to be is the power to dominate, control, or "mess with" others.... that is a problem.

This issue is addressed here.. The Equation for Space;
Quote :
.
.
.
A man once asked, “what do you do with 300 million insane people?” I now must ask, “what do you do with 6.5 billion of them?” Let them see the futures they propose? Will that bring sanity among them? Will that inspire true rationality in Man for perhaps the first time? “Close enough” is going to make him extinct. That part is already foreseeable.
I do not at all want to mess with other people's lives before having perfected my own house. I just do not see a good reason for one's messing with them after one has perfected it.

By the way, I do indeed think the problem gets resolved without additional effort after one perfects one's own house. But in my view, the messing with other people's lives is then an unintended side-effect of the being perfect of one's house.
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PostSubject: Re: Kriya thread toward clear purpose Kriya thread toward clear purpose - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 24, 2012 6:16 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Amasopher wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
- Something must exist because "nothing" excludes the active impossibility of something.
If "nothing" excludes the active impossibility of something, it also excludes any possibility of something, and therefore does not necessitate its existence.
"Nothingness" offers nothing in either direction; to cause something, or to prevent something.
"Nothingness" is a "square-circle", an irrational concept, easily imagined, but logically invalid.
An infinite space of blackness is what is typically imagined. But that isn't actually "absolute nothingness" in that it has volume. And then because it has volume, it has too many points within it for them all to be infinitely identical (that gets into the cardinalities of infinity). Infinite homogeneity is impossible. It is due to that situation that affecting (existence) is always happening. If at any point, there truly were no potential for affect, that point would not "exist" because it has no affect (the very definition of existing).


Amasopher wrote:
I do not at all want to mess with other people's lives before having perfected my own house. I just do not see a good reason for one's messing with them after one has perfected it.

By the way, I do indeed think the problem gets resolved without additional effort after one perfects one's own house. But in my view, the messing with other people's lives is then an unintended side-effect of the being perfect of one's house.
That all sounds good to me.
But to me, nothing is intentionally unintentional.
If I know that I am going to have affect, I consider what that affect might be before I infect the world with it... that is, if I can. Anything done has affect, else it isn't doing anything.

My intent would be that the group merely form into what it seriously must be to truly survive in an immutable way. The consequences to society will take their own somewhat predictable form.
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PostSubject: Re: Kriya thread toward clear purpose Kriya thread toward clear purpose - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Oct 25, 2012 3:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
If the group is to be a living organism in itself, there are three fundamental components to any living entity;

1) Perception
2) Mind
3) Influence

In this, "mind" refers to the entirety of neurological activity.

Thus the group must have these faculties as a group. Each individual in the group already has them. As a group, they represent three "departments";

1) Research
2) Analysis and direction
3) Activism

It is typically best if a member is in charge of each of those departments, but each department can easily grow into a great many.

This thread was a first attempt at a "mind". It isn't the way I would have chosen, but it was a start. My career was "intelligence design", so I have a good idea of what I am talking about concerning construct of mind.

For a mind to form, there must be a structure involved as a goal to achieve and/or maintain and protect. These three departments and their connectivity represents the fundamental structure to be achieved, maintained, and protected. Once established, the group will be a fundamental living entity.

A mind is no more than a logical assembly of algorithms that processes "input" (the Perception data) into a "map" representation of the groups situation in terms of "self-valuing" or maintaining itself (PHT, Perception of Hopes and Threats).

At the point where a map is established, the entity is conscious. Consciousness is "Remote Recognition", an actively updated map.

The mind department then weighs the hopes and threats (cost/benefit ratio) such as to form a directive. The Activist department then acts upon whatever that balance indicates.

Because this is a continual process, if structured properly, it never stops.

Any questions concerning that much?


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PostSubject: Re: Kriya thread toward clear purpose Kriya thread toward clear purpose - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Oct 26, 2012 12:38 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I do not really doubt that such a group would be possible, and is in some way to follow from our efforts.

I would need to be able to answer one question before I can precisely understand and address your assertions above: What separates a living self-valuing from an inanimate one, such as an atom?

Relating: how can a living entity be imperishable?




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PostSubject: Re: Kriya thread toward clear purpose Kriya thread toward clear purpose - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Oct 26, 2012 7:49 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
I do not really doubt that such a group would be possible, and is in some way to follow from our efforts.

I would need to be able to answer one question before I can precisely understand and address your assertions above: What separates a living self-valuing from an inanimate one, such as an atom?

Relating: how can a living entity be imperishable?

Strategic defense in the form of adaptation.

I don't want to get into quibbling over what defines "life", but the most operative and relevant concept involves the strategies of defense. It is often thought that growth is what defines life. But growth is merely one of the many strategies and one that is incipiently dangerous. The single most predominate error throughout the history of homosapian has been that of not understanding when and how much to grow. The human body understands and behaves appropriately. The human mind fails. And it seems at this point, that error is going to be the final straw that ended homosapian entirely.

It isn't so much being a living organism that matters. What matters is consciousness from which strategy can be utilized. As a Nietzschian, you should be ultimately attentive to this issue. Consciousness is the recognition of the remote situation. It is that recognition that allows for adaptation to the situation. Such adaptation is what life is about. But random or careless adaptation such as to create a possible evolution is the act of the mindless and sacrifices the essence of the progenitor.

To be imperishable, one must maintain the ability to adapt without losing essence. That requires consciousness, verification, and very careful strategy, especially these days.

By the current scheme, all who cannot be controlled into the world system of governance are to be gotten rid of simply because they insist on a socialistic domination which inherently requires a limited number of controlled subjects. For the past 50 years, it has mostly been about "population control" which largely is all about reducing it to controlled numbers. At the moment Science proclaims that the population MUST be reduced, not really because of the lack of resources, but because too many will get "out of hand". Technology has offered them more grace. But technology also offers the most incipient danger to the species.

A living organism is an adapting organism in one way or another. It is critical that the means for adaptation be very, very carefully considered. Merely trial and error will not due any longer.

So in short, to be imperishable one must actively out maneuver entropy.
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PostSubject: Re: Kriya thread toward clear purpose Kriya thread toward clear purpose - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Oct 27, 2012 9:26 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
.
Just a reminder;
Quote :
This public forum has been set up as a space for a productive development of ideas in philosophy as well as in other subjects of thought. The aim of Before The Light is to promote and secure the possibility for active, ambitious and free thinking. A corollary of this is that the thought engendered here is intended to be powerful, potent and vital with respect to its various consequences and necessitated implications. We aim to encouraging the development of powerful, direct and subtle approaches to the various potentialities latent to consciousness and the human condition in all its myriad forms, including among these the capacity and will to envision and thus directly influence and shape the future conditions of humanity.
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PostSubject: Re: Kriya thread toward clear purpose Kriya thread toward clear purpose - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Oct 27, 2012 11:08 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
When I started this thread I was convinced it could amount to something. But this expectation was really based, in large part, on the form I had given it, as described in the OP, and the commitment to address each others questions about assertions we make in detail. Neither of these two plans has been carried out. If we want to have any chance of this thread of which the participants have dispersed, coming together again, the order must be restored and we must all of us commit to address precisely all the questions posed in response to our assertions.

So as a last resort, I make this, again, a new round, and reinstate the original structural order,
where every poster has the right to one post per round*
where all questions must be addressed in detail

*to be clear: I have now posted in this round. This means that James, Amasopher, and Capable get to post one post each. In no particular order.

Once I, James, Amasopher, and Capable have each posted one post, then all four of us have the right to one other post. Again in no particular order. And so on, round after round.

This is my last attempt to resuscitate this thread - I suggest we keep to the structural setup and content-regulations, so that the thread maintains it's value to all.

We can have no one deciding that questions asked to him are irrelevant. We must assume that someone only asks a question because it is relevant to this person who asks it.

I apologize for changing the rules halfway because they weren't being followed. That was weak and the result was predictable. I hope that there is still the will to continue.

Make the most of your posts!



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PostSubject: Re: Kriya thread toward clear purpose Kriya thread toward clear purpose - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 11, 2012 5:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It is with a great deal of respect for you all that I close this thread now. There are other projects on the horizon.
I thank you for your efforts - as modest the steps we have made here may seem, they have been significant.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:35 pm

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PostSubject: Advertising Advertising Icon_minitimeWed Jul 10, 2013 2:54 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It's true that I don't like it. But today I thought of a thing, if you could help me advertise for, I will be in your debts.
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PostSubject: Re: Advertising Advertising Icon_minitimeThu Jul 11, 2013 9:42 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What is this thing?



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Advertising Advertising Icon_minitimeThu Jul 11, 2013 4:55 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
How do you effectively advertise for the legalization of recreational and psychedelic drugs within a frame of it being necessarily legal (a post-facto establishment of a preexisting mindset) for anybody to do anything that isn't harming anybody else?

I have a small idea or two.
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PostSubject: Re: Advertising Advertising Icon_minitimeThu Jul 11, 2013 6:42 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Two states in the USA just recently passed marijuana legalization laws, Colorado and Washington state. So it is certainly possible. Although marijuana smokers that I know generally do not support these laws, because they think it will lead to a decrease in the quality of the herb and an increase in prices due to inevitably high taxation.

I do not know how you would, generally speaking, get such laws as "it is legal if you aren't hurting anyone" passed, since laws generally are more about moralism and enforcement of social norms and status quo. in the USA it took constitutional amendments passing with a majority of public support to enact those marijuana legalization laws, because the courts and politicians would not dare try anything like that.

To your specific question about advertising, you could try and raise public support by appealing to whatever it is about their values-systems and ideas which would cause them to support a legalization cause on the basis of a rationale of "no harm". This might involve addressing their self-responsibility and impulse for autonomy, as well as trying to make unappealing the opposing position of prohibiting these substances solely on the basis of fear and government propaganda manipulations. Maybe be very direct about it, call anyone who opposes such laws ignorant to their face, ignorant and irrational and harmful to the human species. Or you could dress that up with some tact, if you'd prefer.

Satire/comedy might also be an effective approach. Of course either way you will need money to make and distribute your ads.



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PostSubject: Re: Advertising Advertising Icon_minitimeFri Jul 12, 2013 4:32 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Right, having had that opinion and still really having it, I am aware of those complications.

What I am looking for is not advertising for a legal reform, but a state of law. What you say about what law is is true, but it is also true that it is fundamentally dependent, as the style of democracy that it is right now, on popular acceptance. This is clear from the amount of effort and ingenuity put into propaganda and its undercover brother, advertising.

What kind of project could entail advertising a state of law? The way I want this, the legislation would eventually have to catch up to a de facto state of law.

About the money, well, in the words of infamous producer Lloyd Kaufman: "Make the movie first. No, seriously, make the movie."
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PostSubject: Re: Advertising Advertising Icon_minitimeWed Jul 17, 2013 8:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ok, forget the no-harm thing. Or feel free to approach it some other way. My only point with it is to make clear that we aren't advertising for surfaces, but for underlyingnesses. People watching the publicity should feel well, so well that they don't wonder about why they can't figure out what the fuck the publicity is for, exactly.

Also, the end game is not the drugs (those are end game spoils, measures of success), but the ability to act with consequence outside of the state regulatory mechanism.
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PostSubject: Re: Advertising Advertising Icon_minitimeWed Jul 17, 2013 9:00 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hint: urban Venezuelans are self-important children who feel entitled to things, like government help. Perhaps this entitlement is a way forward, or maybe it would be a good idea to use traditionally non-Venezuelan values so as to dazzle them with newness, too...




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PostSubject: Astrology Astrology Icon_minitimeTue Jul 02, 2013 7:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I haven't ever heard a coherent argument against the idea that astrology might work to predict and analyze human behavior to a far greater depth than what may be accomplished without this tool.

With a decade of experience with astrology, I have increasingly become convinced that it is not only a useful tool, but a startlingly exact science of human behavior, inner and outer, and, with a comparable wideness and depth of application, of human compatibility with others.

Like all science, what is required is that one proves it, to demonstrate it. This gets quite complex quite quickly - for how do we prove Newtons laws? We have to be able to measure precise mass, precise momentum and precise acceleration.

Proof of any theorem pertaining to the empirical world requires effort. The idea of a theorem is that it accumulates a lot of observations into one projection, one that concentrates mans gaze and increased his power to manipulate a certain area.

Proving that a science works requires the full attention of the one it is proven to. Astrology is never granted this sort of approach by anyone other than those who eventually become transformed by it.

The context is this world, the world of power. Because I have seen the depth to which astrology penetrates, I am now convinced that many of those who have seen this have moved to a position of great power. Not only as advisors to people with executive military power, but also to businesspeople and banking strategists.

I'm not certain that most or even very many executives use it. I am certain that those who have used it to their advantage in 2003, 2008 and 2010, are now very well off.

Nature is most generous to those who never say never.



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PostSubject: Re: Astrology Astrology Icon_minitimeTue Jul 02, 2013 5:43 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Booya.

It's not true, and it necessarily follows from the theory that people of worldy influence use astrologers that it is not, that only astrologers have seen or percieved that power.

Historically, at least, all manner of chieftain and prince is known to have done this.

I hold that anarchy is the will to re-evaluate the possible relationship with and from astrology/astrologists, as with all forms of power-play. The almost-christians like Kropotkin, who nevertheless never sacrificed historical observation, planted this idea of non-princely organizations of civility that nevertheless did not seek war, distasteful strife. These two things are unavoidable to the path of a King, we all know this, kings themselves aren't shy about it.

Anyway, go astrology, fuck the haterz. It shit works, son. I seen it, and the invitation here is clear for you to take a look. Trust science or forsake it.
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PostSubject: Re: Astrology Astrology Icon_minitimeWed Jul 17, 2013 9:42 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
But does it have to do with the power of astrology or with the power of suggestion?
Our fates are already written in the stars rather than it is we ourselves who create them?



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PostSubject: Re: Astrology Astrology Icon_minitimeWed Jul 17, 2013 2:15 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Our fate is written in our eyes and in our organs as much as in the stars. All realms of significance reflect each other.
Astrology is a means of finding out what is written in ones eyes. Knowing it makes our eyes shine the same essence brighter - or bring our certain hues and intensities.

But astrology can also predict wars and revolutions that eyes of an individual do not predict. It also describes what is written in the eyes and organs of whole races and nations.

Also, it is mans way of making love to the gods - a way of begetting myth.



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PostSubject: Re: Astrology Astrology Icon_minitimeThu Jul 18, 2013 6:07 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
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Quote :
Our fate is written in our eyes and in our organs as much as in the stars.


By "eyes" do you mean our perspective, our way of looking at something?
Yes, what "may" become of us can be written in our organs or in our genes but that doesn't mean that it is fate...not in the larger scheme of things - part of evolution and physiology, yes, but something that was meant to be and not simply some random mutation which took effect... No.
Fate is kind of a negative word, don't you think, that reflects futility or the notion that it is written in stone and cannot ever be changed?

Quote :
All realms of significance reflect each other.
I think that is possible as what they do perhaps is show a connection to things.


Quote :
Astrology is a means of finding out what is written in ones eyes.
I will admit that I do not understand much about astrology and I understand how romantic the notion is of the stars affecting our lives and what stars shone so brightly at our birth. But wasn't it just a way way back then of trying to make sense of things through something that is so awesome and beautiful?

I'm not so sure what you mean by the above statement though FC. It sounds to me more like the astrologer is trying to find out about the person's hopes and dreams. But I could wrong. And once that happens, the power of suggestion takes over or kind of like "what we begin to see as possible, becomes possible".
The power and the truth is not within the astrologer/astrology but just the power of the mind through suggestion to make something happen or the powerlessness of the mind to be influenced.
But that doesn't mean that the stars are roadmaps and signposts of where our live's journey are going to take us.
Some tend to think of fate or destiny as being something which can never be changed...in other words, it is what it is...there is nothing which one can never do about it.
I do not believe this. Inasmuch as it is within our power to change what we see as our future, we can do this. It takes willing and struggle and hard work and self-awareness, but we can do it. And even if somehow because of others' influences and despite what we've tried to do, it has nothing to do with destiny having already been written in the stars. Sometimes cause and effect cannot escape us that's all.

What is within us that we would rather "believe" that our destinies come from the stars. In a sense it is true because we've all come from stardust, starstuff, they are our ancestors in a sense, but they are not responsible for our actions and behaviors and what comes of us. Who knows for sure. Something like that cannot be proven either way but I don't think so.

Perhaps it's akin to when people blame things on a god which happen to us and we just can't explain it or get around it so we have to come up with some answer, we have to life to ourselves, rather than acknowledging the fact that for some things, there are just no answers.



Quote :
Knowing it makes our eyes shine the same essence brighter - or bring our certain hues and intensities.

Yes, stars are capable of doing this and much more and I suppose they are capable of influencing us in a sense but that is more because of who we are in connection with the stars through our minds and spirits but not because they directly affect our destiny, except insofar as we ourselves make that happen.

Quote :
But astrology can also predict wars and revolutions that eyes of an individual do not predict. It also describes what is written in the eyes and organs of whole races and nations.

I know that this is a common belief among astrologers and those who believe in it and i daresay many great men might have also believed in it but can you also see where someone who does have eyes to see with, who can look at the world as it is and know what it is capable of becoming, because of what it sees going around it - somewith with great knowledge and intelligence and a strong historical background perhaps, can see the writing on the way? That doesn't mean this person predicted the future. We can look at someone's behavior and can pretty much figure where it is going to lead. One doesn't have to be psychic for that.

Quote :
Also, it is mans way of making love to the gods - a way of begetting myth.
Yes, I get this. Man needs his myths and his romantic notions in order to thrive and to have a spirit that can fly and soar and an imagination that can create and fire great enthusiam. That's a wonderful thing but it doesn't mean that the stars determine who we are as far as our futures hold - at least not in the sense that the astrologer believes.

But I suppose that either way, it is not something that can be proved. We bask in our beliefs because of what they bring to our lives, how they serve us. They can either serve us well or we land up serving them in a way that can be tragic.



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PostSubject: Re: Astrology Astrology Icon_minitimeFri Jul 19, 2013 1:51 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Arcturus Descending wrote:
Fixed Cross

Quote :
Our fate is written in our eyes and in our organs as much as in the stars.


By "eyes" do you mean our perspective, our way of looking at something?
I kept it open. "Eyes" means a lot. In your iris, a lot is revealed about the state of your glands, organs, mind-body in general.

I consider the body to be a mind.

Quote :
Yes, what "may" become of us can be written in our organs or in our genes but that doesn't mean that it is fate...not in the larger scheme of things - part of evolution and physiology, yes, but something that was meant to be and not simply some random mutation which took effect... No.
Fate is kind of a negative word, don't you think, that reflects futility or the notion that it is written in stone and cannot ever be changed?
There are always choices, yes. Nothing is set in stone in that way, I don't believe that either. One might say that what we are is the choices we make with what we are given.

Then again, what determines our choices, if not what we are given?

Quote :
Quote :
All realms of significance reflect each other.
I think that is possible as what they do perhaps is show a connection to things.
The universe seems to unfold in a fractal like pattern. "As above, so below" - and as everywhere in between.

Quote :
Quote :
Astrology is a means of finding out what is written in ones eyes.
I will admit that I do not understand much about astrology and I understand how romantic the notion is of the stars affecting our lives and what stars shone so brightly at our birth. But wasn't it just a way way back then of trying to make sense of things through something that is so awesome and beautiful?
No, I firmly disagree there. The ancients were far too diligent for that to apply. Consider the number of human generations required only to chart the effects of Saturn in a natal chart.

What they knew about Saturn then still is exactly true now. We might just take it with a little more optimism, but there's no escaping it.

Quote :
I'm not so sure what you mean by the above statement though FC. It sounds to me more like the astrologer is trying to find out about the person's hopes and dreams. But I could wrong. And once that happens, the power of suggestion takes over or kind of like "what we begin to see as possible, becomes possible".
Oh there is definitely a lot of truth in that last sentence.

Quote :
The power and the truth is not within the astrologer/astrology but just the power of the mind through suggestion to make something happen or the powerlessness of the mind to be influenced.
No, you're presumptuous here. I might say the same about science. Someone would ask me - but look at the proof! And I might respond: No need, it's going to come out my way anyway. I'm not going to waste my time on that.
That's how astrology is approached by those who share the point of view you express here. It's not serious.

Astrology is only and solely based on empirical data-gathering over thousands of years. It's reliable and inflexible. You can't get around a transit, you have to go through it. You can't escape an aspect, you have to live it.

Quote :
But that doesn't mean that the stars are roadmaps and signposts of where our live's journey are going to take us.
Yes, it does.
Strangely, it does.
Everything from the birth of your child to the encounter of your great love corresponds to the celestial movements, just as it corresponds to "normal" day to day causality.

I didn't believe this before, but experience taught me.

Quote :
Some tend to think of fate or destiny as being something which can never be changed...in other words, it is what it is...there is nothing which one can never do about it.
I do not believe this. Inasmuch as it is within our power to change what we see as our future, we can do this. It takes willing and struggle and hard work and self-awareness, but we can do it. And even if somehow because of others' influences and despite what we've tried to do, it has nothing to do with destiny having already been written in the stars. Sometimes cause and effect cannot escape us that's all.
Again, it's all about what you do with what's given to you. There is your freedom to make your own fate. But the rudimentary evens are inevitable, just like the seasons and the tides.
Astrology is no more than an extended tide-table. The tide table is the basic form astrology, as it charts the influence of the moon. There are many more tides, working on all the currents in the world and in our lives.

Quote :
What is within us that we would rather "believe" that our destinies come from the stars. In a sense it is true because we've all come from stardust, starstuff, they are our ancestors in a sense, but they are not responsible for our actions and behaviors and what comes of us. Who knows for sure. Something like that cannot be proven either way but I don't think so.

They do not come from the stars, but they are reflected in the movements of the planets.
And it has been proven very exactly. That is why military operations are coordinated using astrology, and why you can predict wars and revolutions using the course of Uranus and Pluto. I predicted the Arab spring, the Iraq war, the debt crisis, in the following terms: revolution of the people against long standing power, great electronic invasion in territory of faith, and global corporate take-over.

Quote :
Perhaps it's akin to when people blame things on a god which happen to us and we just can't explain it or get around it so we have to come up with some answer, we have to life to ourselves, rather than acknowledging the fact that for some things, there are just no answers.
There is no denying that ignorance is bliss.
Once, "things just fall down" sufficed.
Once you open such a realm, be it physics, astrology or chemistry, you are forced to deal with a whole lot more possibilities. Intellectual life gets more involved, demanding.



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PostSubject: Re: Astrology Astrology Icon_minitimeFri Jul 19, 2013 8:06 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What further proof is needed than the way we count time on all scales? Did not Einstein tell us that the movement of big objects affects time itself?

Most things follow from the understanding that most knowledge so far has been pretty much scientified fantasy. What claims not to be fantasy the most is likely to be a shittier fantasy.
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PostSubject: Re: Astrology Astrology Icon_minitimeFri Jul 19, 2013 8:09 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Pezer wrote:
What claims not to be fantasy the most is likely to be a shittier fantasy.

The opposite of this is not to claim to be fantasy, but to disacknowledge the very word. Science has the balls and the weapons to do without it.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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PostSubject: NRF NRF Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 11:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I used to just have to type "nat" in order for naturalworldorder to appear. Now I get "naturalrightsfoundation". And rightly so, that guy is fucking badass.

Whatever is about to happen in the US, it is a vast event in the history of morals, power and technology. There's only one nation in history with that kind of significance, and it's about to do something I can't predict.






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PostSubject: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeSun Jul 28, 2013 8:02 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster


Long live the alternatives.
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeMon Jul 29, 2013 10:52 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Did you save the posts we made on the forum?



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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeMon Jul 29, 2013 11:06 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Of course.

I'm unsure what will become of them, but yes they are around.
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeMon Jul 29, 2013 12:50 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What? Why/how did it die?



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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeMon Jul 29, 2013 2:44 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
We all tried, and all found places where we couldn't compromise for the others. It was powerful though, may the ashes serve us.
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeMon Jul 29, 2013 2:51 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Btw, the natural world order will never die.
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeMon Jul 29, 2013 5:18 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
What? Why/how did it die?

It was completely dead. I'm not going to pay for hosting if no one is using it.

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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeTue Jul 30, 2013 12:04 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Good thing you saved the posts. I'd like to publish some of them here, in the Archives section.



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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeTue Jul 30, 2013 7:03 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I guess I can leave it until the hosting runs out. Feel free to get whatever you want in the meantime.

http://naturalworldorder.org/
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeTue Jul 30, 2013 7:05 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Cause if I'm reading this right, we have like a month left. lol.
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeTue Jul 30, 2013 7:06 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Pezer wrote:
Btw, the natural world order will never die.

True.
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeThu Aug 01, 2013 2:33 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yeah we have till the 22nd left.

I fucked up and cancelled right after it was renewed.

As for the posts, I have an archive file that I'm sure we could plug into some phpBB api and pull posts according to criteria. You don't have to copy/paste entire pages. That looks and functions shitty. You can barely scroll in that archive thread.

If you can find the api or the script or whatever to do this, I can take requests on running the script for whatever you need.
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeThu Aug 01, 2013 2:39 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Forum motion is run on phpbb, so you could maybe even import the file into this forum, into an existing sub forum or something like that. Check in the admin part.

If there is one.
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeSat Aug 03, 2013 3:34 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I don't think that'll work, but it's cool that you've got the file handy for possible futures.
For now I like the jungle-thread.
I didn't copy everything from NWO to NWA, just the bulk of the threads I consider to be of philosophical value.

Naturally I couldn't judge everything precisely, I'm sure I left some rupees under rocks and in trees...



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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 6:47 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
No, I must have left dozens of great posts untouched - the copying of the whole pages seems to have gotten a bit weird, some posts were just left out. I don't know what happened. Anyway, I like this jungle of words.

NWO was quite powerful, but of course what was lacking was a basic form of trust. Here on BTL we do trust each other rather fundamentally. That is why it is more successful, even if the technology is less advanced and the language not accessible to the sort of people you (Eleven) seek to address.

I do not really give much for influencing people who can't read through a sentence unless it's jotted down in twitter lingo. Let someone else do that nutty job. I'm here to push the frontiers of thought itself. Uh - did that sound contrived?



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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 10:06 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Of course "trust" for you stems from some stylistic/dictive choice. Of course it sounded contrived.

I can write like Capable; I choose not to. As I writer, I passed that stage a long time ago.

That is the point of this thread. I've reached the point where I want to be understood clearly. Maybe one day you guys will as well.

It has nothing to do with anything - intelligence, integrity - other than simply wanting to be heard and understood.


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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 10:19 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Quote :
I write one post about Twitter, and you make a comment like the above.
I did not even see that comment.
I was referring to Twitter. It's famous.

Quote :
It's just unbelievable the type of individual metrics you use to judge a person's overall value/integrity.
You feel judged. So be it.

Quote :
I make one post about advertising, and that is Capable's whole definition of me.
Capable hurt you and you take it out on me. I was on your side in that debate. I can't even talk positively about my own forum, you'll take it as a nasty act of betrayal.

Quote :
I just don't get it. Maybe you spend too much time online. That's not how people are supposed to treat each other. I'm not still nagging at you with Israel questions. I get that is not the entirety of your being.
I don't know what it is that you want of me. Am I your leader?
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 10:43 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I want you to post with your own account, and not edit mine, for one.
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 10:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This is all very indicative.

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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 10:47 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Give me soul and show me the door
Metal heavy, soft at the core
Gimme toro, gimme some more
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 11:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yeah man, you smoking too much is your only problem. You're only the most reactionary person I have ever met.

This is what is boils down to: I am good at making and operating websites. Yes, I was so "aloof" that I took care of... hmm. fucking everything. I did 99% of the work on that site. You guys just sat around. I was so aloof because that is my role - to do the behind the scenes work and then just chill. I could have just been that crazy IT guy that chimes in from time to time with his articles, and you guys could have taken the site in any direction - I encouraged you to at every instance of consideration - but instead of that, you acted like reactionary that you always reduce to.

I don't sabatage projects I work on. That is not a theme in my life. Do you see what I am saying? I don't torpedo things just because one person is saying something that I don't like. That is spoiled rich kid behavior. It's pathetic.

Ultimately what happened was a bunch of people had a choice between using some shit bin you put no effort into (and thus taints everything said here), or a site that effort was put into, that you just decided you were going to start throwing wrenches into because it didn't conform to your exact specifications.

Quote :
You want something and don't know why others don't want it.

All I wanted was for you to focus on the strengths of the people around you, rather than their weaknesses. Tom, W.C., and Me, all you see/saw is the negative and none of the good. Obviously you'll respond with some prosy thing that means nothing, but it's demonstrable in your actions and posts.
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 11:43 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Eleven, you're seriously embarrassing yourself with all this bullshit of yours. I'm this close to deleting all this useless bickering from my and Fixed Cross' "shit" forum. (Of course BTL is a quite beautiful place, counter to your inane, unthinking marketing standards of power and aesthetics). You're only still here because Fixed and Pezer respect you, and I respect them. But I honestly don't see anything useful about you, not one single thing.

Contribute something useful here or don't bother coming here at all.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 11:49 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
If you feel the need to censor me to preserve the integrity of your forum, then by all means censor me.


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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 11:50 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
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(Of course BTL is a quite beautiful place, counter to your inane, unthinking marketing standards of power and aesthetics).

Funny how you are advertising (presumably without your even being aware), whereas I was not. No, this isn't just about aesthetics.

And yet again, it all comes back to the advertising statement. You continue to prove yourself as one-dimensional.

This is all part-and-parcel of the point I tried to get across. Unless you understand advertising in the way I am proposing, you cannot avoid advertising in the way that you despise. Case and point: the advertising going on here.
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 11:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
If you really cared about your stance with regards to marketing (which I don't think you really do - I think you just don't like me), you would have stuck with NWO and abandoned this place. That is completely leaving aesthetics out of this.

But yeah, delete me and avoid the hard questions.



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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 2:33 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"This is what is boils down to: I am good at making and operating websites. Yes, I was so "aloof" that I took care of... hmm. fucking everything. I did 99% of the work on that site. You guys just sat around. I was so aloof because that is my role - to do the behind the scenes work and then just chill. I could have just been that crazy IT guy that chimes in from time to time with his articles, and you guys could have taken the site in any direction - I encouraged you to at every instance of consideration -"

I did this, and the direction I wanted was not shared by Fixed Cross or you. I don't hold it against you, hurt as it may, because I am taking this shit seriously. I did leave, because I was only down to keep going as the superadmin, and only superadmin if I could have things my way dialecticly. I made it clear what I wanted, and since you chose to be the behind-the-scenes guy, Fixed Cross and I had to understand each other. Which we did, here we are, and your aloofness worked against you. Do you remember that scene in The Blair Witch project when the pony tail guy rips the camera from the girl and says "oh, now I see why you like it... it gives you a distance?"
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 2:38 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Eleven wrote:
Quote :
(Of course BTL is a quite beautiful place, counter to your inane, unthinking marketing standards of power and aesthetics).

Funny how you are advertising (presumably without your even being aware), whereas I was not. No, this isn't just about aesthetics.

And yet again, it all comes back to the advertising statement. You continue to prove yourself as one-dimensional.

This is all part-and-parcel of the point I tried to get across. Unless you understand advertising in the way I am proposing, you cannot avoid advertising in the way that you despise. Case and point: the advertising going on here.

Because I agree here, and I do have adblock installed, I literally said "but whatever I think about marketing, I'll help you in whatever you have in mind." You decided to be extremely oblique and did not release a single detail of your vision of marketing beyond adsense other than why it was necessary, which I at least got.

[All these conversations should just be moved to kurukshetra, since it really does fuck with the aescetics.]
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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 05, 2013 12:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
For the record, I built the NWO idea, I gave you the setup for the infrastructure. You registered the domain, installed WP and a forum skin, and fancied yourself a programmer. I just gave you too much compliments.

Pezer and ChainOfBeing saved the impulse of putting trust in you from being completely pointless, from NWO being just a vessel for your advertising fetish.

I tried like hell to work with you and W.C. He at least had the decency to thank me. But you... I never met such an ingrate.

I changed the name of your trolling account to SadClown, for the time being. We'll delete it as soon as you decide to be done with your stalking.



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PostSubject: Re: NWO is Dead NWO is Dead - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 05, 2013 12:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Oh yeah - then there's just the little detail that you decided to kill the site, and without any warning. If you hadn't fucked up as you say, I'd not even had the chance of saving our writing. To be honest I always felt that this was going to happen.

You killed the NWO site because there was no traffic. When we were going up you were bragging about how many members you'd attract. How great your advertising was going to be.

I never had any beef with Tom. He's a good friend, and I always shared good spirits with him on the forum. He had to leave because of your dangerously ignorant attitude, and said he thought I should leave too. I stuck around, defended you again. It even came to inviting you to this Pentad forum.

You have no idea how much credit you've been given. But giving you credit is beginning to work against me, with you coming in here strictly to be an unclean element. So it's up now. Ho home, Gobbo. It's over.

The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:38 pm

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PostSubject: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeThu Aug 01, 2013 1:43 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It's not an easy task. In fact, it's the first and last battle for any writer: writing to be understood.

And yet, I sense that many of us do not write for this reason, but rather just to talk. You have the "spirit of freedom" or you're high, or whatever.

That's good. Editing is good, too.

When I made NWO I took care to make it look good for a reason: if you want to build a movement - if you want power - you need to use the work or attention of a bigger group of people than you currently have. Or some sort of an electronic equivalent. You will not attract people beyond the choir unless you attend to these types of considerations. You will not have the need or care to craft posts that are accessible if you know you can use the tone of voice and word selection that works for three people that you know very well.

Go write poetry if you want to talk to yourself. If you count yourself among the people looking to enact some change in the way that we live, then take the time to adopt a mode of operation that even has a remote shot at working.

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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeThu Aug 01, 2013 5:03 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I'm not sure anyone is expecting to change the world or start a mass movement by posting in online fora sites. If they are expecting this, that's obviously quite naive. A better path to gathering world influence is to write a book, or make a movie, or go out into the world and act within it, directly.

I understand every one of our primary members here are presumably engaged in at least one of these endeavors.

BTL is a place for like minds to gather and to be drawn. A deliberately small corner for advanced thought and precise, careful development. I won't speculate on any sort of greater future influence and growth that may or may not occur here or as a result of this place, but I don't think anyone here limits their activity to online fora. Of course I'm not implying there would be anything inherently wrong with doing so.

If you want a cult movement, start a religion. If you want real-world, measurable political-social power, start a corporation, or a non-profit.

Philosophy, the parts actually worth reading, has always refused to pander to the lower masses, has been deliberately and "arrogantly" itself, and I see this not as a limit upon philosophy's lasting potential to influence but rather a condition of it.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeThu Aug 01, 2013 7:18 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Quote :
I'm not sure anyone is expecting to change the world or start a mass movement by posting in online fora sites.

We just tried to start a website that was to be some sort of gathering that isn't intentionally small. That just happened.

All I said is that when you gather people, you gain power. Which is exactly what you are trying to do with your book series: bring people together to read your thoughts. Or perhaps this is a book for a "select few" to read?

Quote :

If they are expecting this, that's obviously quite naive. A better path to gathering world influence is to write a book, or make a movie, or go out into the world and act within it, directly.

You can write a book and not have a forum that repels people like purple vinegar. You know these things are not mutually exclusive.

Capable wrote:
Philosophy, the parts actually worth reading, has always refused to pander to the lower masses, has been deliberately and "arrogantly" itself, and I see this not as a limit upon philosophy's lasting potential to influence but rather a condition of it.

This presupposes that what you're reading is "the bare soul" writing of these people. Yeah man. You're reading Plato's diary..



Anyway, whatever. If it's your intention to purposefully keep this site small for your "advanced" discussions, then ..cool. I was under the impression you were up to more than simply some RL art project, and writing on this one forum. I was wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeFri Aug 02, 2013 11:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Listen man, we all want power, but we also want fine power. We only want the pure, 100%, Colombian shit, you know what I mean? If you want an army of people at your disposal, you don't start a religion: you start selling crack. We don't like crack here, and we won't sell it or help it continue evolving, that is, existing.

This is the way I see it: you are focusing your acquisition of power on the present active fan bases of the world. Philosophy, or what I like to think of really as post-philosophy, gambles on a fan base that it has to build. This is why so many philosophers and philosophy fans today fall in love with Hitler, even while condemning him sometimes: because he seemed to have built his own fan base.

Of course, the reason I dislike Hitler is that this is not true. Hitler drew up a fan base that existed, he was a screen for the thoughts of the German Empiric subconscious, he made art to unite impulses of eld which he couldn't understand simply because nobody could: they are historical madness that just worked at different times, like fucky patterns on pets. To build a post-philosophical fan base would take altogether different steps.

In any case, we seek to, in a sense, build power before we use it. You seem to be fine with using someone else's, and we all know who those elses are. If you think you can Neo it and over-matrix the matrix, cool. I'd like to see it. Maybe, in a different way, I am approaching the same thing.

Right now, for example, this site has already developed dozens of concepts that I could jump into right now with you and further both our grasps on what we want, but you insist that that is simply snobby café politics or ineffectual art.
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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeFri Aug 02, 2013 5:49 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Quote :
In any case, we seek to, in a sense, build power before we use it. You seem to be fine with using someone else's, and we all know who those elses are.

You're not going to do anything unless you attract numbers. That's a fact.

Quote :
For example, this site has already developed dozens of concepts that I could jump into right now with you and further both our grasps on what we want, but you insist that that is simply snobby café politics or ineffectual art.

You guys are rehashing the same tired old theory with your contrived diction. What is happening here is the antithesis of interesting.

Quote :
In any case, we seek to, in a sense, build power before we use it.

Yeah with the forum that looks like it was thrown together with no real care. Yeah. Great foundation. It's just like life, man. You can't just think your way into stellar physical shape, and you cannot just work out one part of the body.

This forum is going nowhere. NWO could have. That's what pissses me off. No one even fucking uses forummotion.
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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeFri Aug 02, 2013 5:57 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Good luck with... whatever.

I'll be around either here or ILP if you guys decide you want to come down from the tree fort and actually do something again.
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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeFri Aug 02, 2013 6:28 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Your problem is that you think you are the only one with schemes and ideas. Life is complicated, getting things in it doesn't just require a forum, even a shiny one. I have been driving that point since ILP, and I always follow it with this one: that it is a stupid mistake to think this makes forums unimportant.

People seem to want to be in some perfect internet virtual reality or not touch it, we for some reason allow only the capitalists to blend effect in internet with effect in life. You study magic, man! This should be elemental to you.

Just because we don't fit the boss' description of what the right way to do things is doesn't mean we are passive or nihilistic, and yes! sometimes you develop better, more effective theory among the small group of interested people you consider masters of your craft.

I liked the idea of ILP, and I was down for whatever. But what we thought was constructive you saw as silly or ineffective. But you didn't offer alternatives. Fuck, I wrote half the posts on that forum! And I offered more than once to go against my own opinions out of confidence in your madness, but you saw that as counter-productive too. No battle plan survives contact with the enemy, as they say, and the enemy of the craftsman is the stuff he works on. You have good ideas, but how do you use them? Is it a self-referentail internet circle? I can even respect that, I was just born in warmer lands, I need things to have their primary roots in earth.
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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeSat Aug 03, 2013 8:00 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Quote :
Your problem is that you think you are the only one with schemes and ideas.

Nah. That's not it. How could that possibly be true.

Look, never mind.

I think I'm over this whole thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeSat Aug 03, 2013 2:55 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Eleven wrote:
It's not an easy task. In fact, it's the first and last battle for any writer: writing to be understood.

And yet, I sense that many of us do not write for this reason, but rather just to talk. You have the "spirit of freedom" or you're high, or whatever.

That's good. Editing is good, too.

When I made NWO I took care to make it look good for a reason: if you want to build a movement - if you want power - you need to use the work or attention of a bigger group of people than you currently have. Or some sort of an electronic equivalent. You will not attract people beyond the choir unless you attend to these types of considerations. You will not have the need or care to craft posts that are accessible if you know you can use the tone of voice and word selection that works for three people that you know very well.

Go write poetry if you want to talk to yourself. If you count yourself among the people looking to enact some change in the way that we live, then take the time to adopt a mode of operation that even has a remote shot at working.

Yeah... except NWO grew right out of here.

The project has completed a fertile cycle as I harvested it and put it back in this soil.

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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 8:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Just know, Eleven, that I respect your mind and power thirst and consider you an ally in whatever you do. So be effective, and sorry that I couldn't help you do it directly as I am that you couldn't do it for me.
This time.
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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 10:02 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
You guys have each other. I think sometimes I just wish I had an ally in all of this. I'm tired of saying things and having people not get what I am saying.

But whatever. I'm used to it by now.
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PostSubject: respect your courage Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 10:13 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
We understand each other in terms of advertising. Also, astral travel and the like. A similar perspective on the "machinery of the universe" or the sphere of Shaddai El Chai.

NWO was a well oiled machine set up on a very unstable time. In retrospect I see that it meant something. We were all challenged quite strongly for a couple of months. The locus of this confrontation is now dead. And I am not all mourning, as the name did share the initials with something very powerfully dark.
What's left of it is pretty fine material, there's lots of funny debates and no shortage of insights.

If we try it anew, we should probably look at building a campfire rather than a - I'm thinking sailboat, but that's not right -
Root it in what we are - relatively free minds, with quite some capacity to assert ourself - and not in a goal that we have not fully formulated.



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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 2:16 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I felt like that, too. I still feel like that. Your plan wasn't good enough. It was fucking good, though. We are pioneers in stuff, the Wright brothers crashed a thousand planes, if you need allies then write smart shit here and make a new plan, like I'm fucking trying to, or do something else, but don't blame us when there are no blueprints to follow and no clear signs of when to trust someone. I don't get shit my way either, it is the very struggle of human so stop taking it so lightly.
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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 5:23 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
So you want to play the ban game with someone who knows php?

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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 5:25 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
You out to think on the question I proposed:

How can you resolve your stance on advertising when you freely advertise for someone else on your site without the ability to say no?
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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2013 11:57 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I didn't ban you despite that you're violating the rules of BTL by not saying anything at all except complaining and insulting. But if you're this desperate to blame me for all your loneliness and ineffectiveness, you're on your own. You're one hell of a creep, too creepy to have as an ally. Grow some self-confidence. stop trolling, find your place. If you can't, if you feel you need to be near me, go right ahead and play with your PhP skills to "advertise" yourself... ahem...



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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeMon Aug 05, 2013 4:33 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This is the price we pay for not having met in person earlier and tripped on hard drugs.

I wish I knew the answer to that question. You have such a mind for it, why don't you cohort with us? Setting us up with technology isn't enough, this forum would probably still work as an emailing list, I need to know what the fuck direction you are thinking with your advertising if you want any chance of a decent collaboration.

For instance, you could just post a thread here on advertising.
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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeMon Aug 05, 2013 4:40 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
And I get the frustration of having put something great into that site and having had it not turn out. Get over that and adapt. read the ideas here with seriousness, maybe those can be of help, too. Sophistication is the nature of all good anything, including advertising.

Fucking weirdos like you are the stuff of the future, I really think we are on the same team. Why are we still floundering? The gathering approaches.
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PostSubject: Re: Writing to Be Understood Writing to Be Understood Icon_minitimeTue Aug 06, 2013 6:19 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
For me the biggest problem with NWO was the rather nasty political edge. I will never tire of saying this -- Gobbo had invited W.C., who I did not know existed, to set the tone for the site before I was even aware that it was online. W.C. then posted this ridiculously Hitler-esque film about Jews, and that was that - the standard was set, I had to both restrain and exert myself to the utmost to make it clear that this site, this project, was not only not antisemite, but also had some standards in terms of epistemology. Gobbo then accused me of being too sensitive. Yeah -- too sensitive about the Jews being blamed for the existence of Hitler -- on my own site. It didn't feel like my own site from then on.

Seriously, politics is not something to fuck around with, W.C. was like a toddler with a bazooka. It was very difficult to get a good energy on the site from that moment, even though it functioned like a dream. Only when you (Pezer) showed up did it become something alive. But even you and Capable could not save it from the doomsday kind of feel that had infiltrated it.

If there will ever be a new site like that, it should not have a political name. I am not going to be responsible, even symbolically, for the type of propaganda that got millions killed, amongst whom many of my family members. If someone is going to talk about politics on a site I administer, he'd better know precisely what he's talking about, and realize precisely the possible consequences of his writing.

It's like the opening note to any song - once it's set, you can't escape it. Your whole song will refer back to that note.





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PostSubject: In Defence of Gobbo In Defence of Gobbo Icon_minitimeTue Aug 06, 2013 10:00 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Gobbo brings to the forefront of necessity something which philosophers, lazy and needing comfort as we do, are experts at avoiding in our central theorems about the possibilities of human. It is undeniable, as Nietzsche said about sex, that no matter how elevated we get we cannot avoid these things being integral parts of our psyche. There is a truth that human is not a single category in the world, each tectonic biosphere has separate categories of living. Marx's innovation was to point out how these biospheres are affected by the larger biosphere of communal living, how the most elevated man of comfort's most private, islandic ideas are profoundly connected to the grotesque conversations of filthy poor people, and Gobbo challenges us to formulate our post-philosophy in terms overreaching into the wider biosphere, or perhaps he challenges us to continue our direction while adding the wider biosphere as a concern branching from it.

The question of advertising is essential, it is the form in which the reality of the relationship between the classes is most succintly expressed, even in terms of power. A Canadian is a being evolved enough that, with the use of psychedelics, can even notice how the formulas are different depending on the largness of the company, that is, its power level. They call use "subliminal messaging" for a certain class of it and they can see, for example, how the philosophy that is psychology was mostly part of, in power terms, some top levels. It makes them go loony sometimes, there is no charting of this area of exploration and it is being approached from the grasses of its (part of global) society. But, all throughout, I have seen ol' Authority Figure keep a handle on his shit.

The danger to us, of course, is that such an approach would likely demolish the bases for the work we have done, which power is great enough to consider keeping avoiding low-brow philosophy.

Gobbo, you tried to make the meeting happen. It didn't work. Tell me now, would it require more strength to find another group like us or to find another approach that might work to help us make this powerful shift?

If I can make a sugestion: the genius of your insight is not in the specifics of the Canadian lore, but the land it discovered. It makes sense that the first mappings of these lands would be off compared to posterior sketches, like Freud.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:39 pm

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PostSubject: Heidegger Heidegger Icon_minitimeSun Sep 15, 2013 12:54 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Heidegger wrote:
Nietzsche wrote:
A spirit strengthened by wars and victories, to whom conquest, adventure, danger, even pain have become a necessity: the habituation to sharp mountain air, to wintry walks, to ice and mountains in every sense; a sort of sublime malice and extreme exuberance of revenge- for there is revenge in it, revenge against life itself, when one who suffers greatly takes life under his protection.
What else remains for us to say but: Zarathustra's doctrine does not bring deliverance from revenge? We will say it. But we say it in no way as an alleged refutation of Nietzsche's philosophy. We do not even say it is an objection to his thinking. But we do say it in order to bring into focus how much and in what way even Nietzsche's thinking moves within the spirit of reflection to-date.
Silly Heidegger, only the consummation of revenge can deliver anybody from it. You don't shift away from it with zeitgeisty spirit of reflection.

Earlier in that text, Heidegger claims Zarathustra is the teacher for a way to consummate a world of an old testament. If this is true, then Zarathustra is useless. It reveals Heidegger as a Christian for espousing Hebrew Gods as a non-Hebrew, which is a Christian thing to do.

Zarathustra is the teacher of avoidance of an old testament world.

I accuse him also of being, probably for the very reason that he is a Christian, a Hegelianator of Nietzsche, a re-idealistator of his philosophy using English comfort.
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PostSubject: Re: Heidegger Heidegger Icon_minitimeSun Sep 15, 2013 2:27 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It is suspect that Heidegger dances both with Nazism and Judaism. But I take him as a self-professed Christian.

I like Heidegger, but in the same way that I like James - he presents a theory that, ideally, benefits the greatest number of people. My moral heritage condones this attitude. "I" am at a spearhead where such things don't matter, all that matters is _what means: "benefit"?_ In this I see value in Heidegger and in RM - both present models of spontaneously emerging coherence. Very Taoist. But not Nietzschean.

Except in the case where the whole world is a hierarchy with a Greek spine, a nimble Dionysos rather than the stiff Egyptian monolith that attempts dominance now, Nietzsche's thinking is antithetical to rational Utopianism. I am torn. Not in my soul, but in my life.

My soul, and Nietzsche, are far more than what a moral plan could entail - his writing is blood, poison, medicine - it works directly on the soul, confirms that there is a soul in the world without God and immortality. For many such an unbound soul is deadly poison, it opens up the psychedelic perspective of the single-eyed will, which due to its own singularity sees the world as pure diversity, intolerant of, antithetical to any kind of unifying truth. The Nietzschean soul commands alone-ness.

Heideggers thought and RM are moralities, clearly outlined methods of being. Both are Christian, both run with the assumption that the best for the multitude involves the best of the best. This means: man as a limit. "Man is born, let him now protect himself". Nietzsche wants man to spend himself, counting on the luck of "those who turned out well" to keep (up with) the universe overcoming itself. A much more poetic and alienating picture, but probably also more realistic. The universe does not seem to allow itself as much peace of mind as both James and Heidegger require to have their ideals emerge.



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PostSubject: Re: Heidegger Heidegger Icon_minitimeSun Sep 15, 2013 2:37 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Revenge as the left hand of amor fati: "Now this is happening".



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PostSubject: Re: Heidegger Heidegger Icon_minitimeSun Sep 15, 2013 2:55 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
My amor fati is larger, like your cosmic one, it involves a war between Gods. The overcoming of the crucifiction is not some detail, not a deilicious filling burrito or even a chopper. How can you choose the side of errant will to imaginary goals? We have an actual relationship to the real, what the fuck is the point of having geniuses if the price to pay is total disregard for the responsibility of purpose?
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PostSubject: Re: Heidegger Heidegger Icon_minitimeSun Sep 15, 2013 2:57 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"I have always laughed at masters who cannot laugh at themselves."
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PostSubject: Re: Heidegger Heidegger Icon_minitimeMon Sep 16, 2013 1:59 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Obviously there is no relation to philosophical revenge and a payback for a delicious but filling burrito in ones face leading to a trashed chopper. I should not actually have posted that link and I hesitated some time - but your second post gives the answer to why I went through with it. Still, revenge is no laughing matter - or rather, a matter of very different laughing.

Quote :
A young shepherd I saw, writhing, gagging, in spasms, his face distorted, and a heavy black snake hung out of his mouth. Had I ever seen so much nausea and pale dread on one face? He seemed to have been asleep when the snake crawled into his throat, and there bit itself fast. My hand tore at the snake and tore in vain; it did not tear the snake out of his throat. Then it cried out of me; "Bite! Bite its head off! Bite!" Thus it cried out of me — my dread, my hatred, my nausea, my pity, all that is good and wicked in me cried out of me with a single cry.

The shepherd, however, bit as my cry counseled him; he bit with a good bite. Far away he spewed the head of the snake — and he jumped up. No longer shepherd. no longer human — one changed, radiant, laughing! Never yet on earth has a human being laughed as he laughed! O my brothers, I heard a laughter that was no human laughter; and now a thirst gnaws at me, a longing that never grows still. My longing for this laughter gnaws at me; oh, how do I bear to go on living! And how could I bear to die now!

The point was the "Now this is happening" phrase, which is good. Revenge is amor fati, when the revenge is executed in a clear-headed manner, not just as an unrestrainable emotional impulse. The latter most often leads to some kind of muddy doubt, regret perhaps, the former is a case of "this happened to me, and as a consequence, now this is happening to you, because I am the universe". In an act of revenge, one personifies the causal principle of the world as oneself. It is in affect a rather beautiful thing. This is why in stories, forgiveness, is hardly ever satisfying, and revenge often touches the heart. In fact, come ti think of it, the whole concept of a Hollywood film is vengeful. In the beginning, something happens to the hero, who thereby becomes the hero. In the end, the hero avenges himself and his world on the source of this occurrence, neutralizes it with a symbolic victory. The hero takes revenge on the outer world on behalf of the inner world and says "Now this is happening". Greek tragedy and epic are very different. Neither are they about forgiveness, but they do no place the power of the Gods in the hands of one individual, even if they are descendants of Gods.

The spepherd biting off the head of the snake represents the clarity that I mentioned.



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PostSubject: Re: Heidegger Heidegger Icon_minitimeMon Sep 16, 2013 2:31 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
In this sense the Americans have a rather admirable and strange power ascribed to themselves. They are Christian, which means that they have relations to the Gods - it means this to them, their type, pioneers, not the the European protestants - and they are vengeful. In this design, there is a desire for the best of both worlds.

But naturally, the non-vengeful Christ, or the Christian, is the abysmal revenge of the world, as because of it suffering the world, it utterly denies the world. A more sordid revenge is not thinkable, except perhaps the actual destruction of the world.

The Nietzschean revenge is this: Oh, the world is evil? Then I am now (free to be) evil! Laughter. This is rising beyond good and evil. There is no indifference in this beyond good and evil, it is the absorbing of the quality which makes the world evil (will to power) into ones self-image, thereby transmuting it to a prerequisite for the new good, the strength to overcome. But what is required here, for this revenge to be clean, is that one does not do it out of resentment, which is what many criminal minds are driven by, but out of thankfulness. "I am now free to be this world. Let's play."

This is an extremely difficult step to take, and to muster the will to make it, it is perhaps required that a "snake crawls into ones throat".



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PostSubject: Re: Heidegger Heidegger Icon_minitimeMon Sep 16, 2013 11:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I needed to step away from this one to see that the clip is actually pretty funny and spot on.

There is most definitely humor in needing to collect all of a species' strength and bellicose instinct to defeat a God that only loves and was already crucified for us. I never stop being humbled by that, it gives me a wry smile every time.

To add joke onto joke, we resorted to that God out of our own tiredness from bellicose life!

Pretty funny, specially once you consider that there has been an alternative all along.
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PostSubject: Re: Heidegger Heidegger Icon_minitimeWed Sep 18, 2013 6:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I had a discussion with Sauwelios recently where I was trying to explain how I thought Heidegger was right, that Nietzsche did have or enable a revenge with the ER, revenge on death, mortality, finity - but now that we've come to terms, I can say that he had his revenge on the mind of death, as it had existed - on the lament of death. Or the lament-worthiness of death. This is the tragic - the celebrate the lament.

The lament occurs, animals lament their dead, but the human mind has to work with it, do something with it, give it meaning beyond the expression of grief. It simply has to, as the mind works only in this way. The mind is the curse we were given, and Nietzsche managed to turn it into a blessing. Rather, to neutralize it. Value ontology allows us to make it a positive in the intellectual sense as well as the spiritual (which was Nietzsche's domain - he killed God because he was stronger).

VO rests on this vengeance, this consummation, the "now this is happening" becomes "what is now happening is precisely this. It means that you are now such." The "and you yourselves are also this will to power" was true but was not made conscious by this phrase. "and you yourselves have no choice but to value in the terms of your being" makes the will to power appear as it really is: the only possibility we have to exist. Nietzsche did not make this entirely clear yet. He just saw it with perfect clarity, but was - impressed by it too much.

It is fitting that Nietzsche had Pluto in Aries, and that I have it in Libra. I am the direct consequence of Nietzsche's initiative. As soon as I get this in my head, to fully occupy it, I am saved. Yes, I envy Nietzsche the sheer solitude of his might. But there simply is no one in this time who can experience such, as God no longer exists, and the new world has already been born.

What did not exist yet is a Law to Nietzsche's Ethics. That is to say, a ratio following from an axiom. And that is to say, the law inherent in the axiom. VO goes to the depth of Nietzsche's decision, and by splitting the singular will in two mutually relating definitions, tears open the mindset of which Nietzsche was part - the definitional logic. Value ontology destroys the sovereignty of the word.

The whole of Genesis has been read by certain people as the history of the destruction of the image by the word. Nietzsche had the final word. Aha(bra-)! Now I see why value ontology must be made clear through film, and why I, a philosopher who can not grant himself the liberty an artist must have, was given this talent.









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PostSubject: The fate of RM: PHT The fate of RM: PHT Icon_minitimeFri Oct 04, 2013 2:56 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Whether or not VO can be interpreted in terms of RM relies on whether or not we make a modification in RM's tectonic structure. Rather, tectonicize the dimensional hierarchy.

RM proposes 4 categories: physics, physiology, psychology and politics.
It recognizes the value ontological tenet of a self-valuing in terms of the third category. (VO recognizes itself in all 4, but does not recognize the categorization as implicit in the ontology)

The third category, psychology, is defined within RM as "perception of hopes and threats".
Positive and negative values.

How does one define those values? By defining the one who holds them.
Can this be done within the means of RM?
Can we explain, out of affectance, the character of the one who wields the will to design?

Are there perhaps different patterns of affectance that make an anentropic shell?

The fate of RM: PHT Falk_nieve-mandala

The fate of RM: PHT 10282764-detailed-and-colorful-henna-mandala-design-easily-editable

The fate of RM: PHT Mandala-power1



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PostSubject: Re: The fate of RM: PHT The fate of RM: PHT Icon_minitimeFri Oct 04, 2013 3:04 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
To this end we must ask:


"WHAT IS NOBLE?

[Because][...]life itself is ESSENTIALLY appropriation, injury, conquest of the strange and weak, suppression, severity, obtrusion of peculiar forms, incorporation, and at the least, putting it mildest, exploitation;—but why should one for ever use precisely these words on which for ages a disparaging purpose has been stamped?



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- Thucydides


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PostSubject: Re: The fate of RM: PHT The fate of RM: PHT Icon_minitimeFri Oct 04, 2013 3:17 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Are we to simply refer to our psyche as an instrument to keep something healthy and safe, then RM would be consistent with VO.
But VO can not simply accept such a premise - we recognize that survival is not the motive, but the result of life.

What makes life survive? Not that it has values which are attainable, but that it has values in the pursuit of which it survives.

What are such values?

Love. Money. Power.
Are they?

Is this what drives us?

Is not the drive itself the love, the capital and the power?

Then what does this drive pursue?

Time-space-relative.

We can have a goal.

"Philosophy" can not.


"The best hope for the future is to ask what is being determined as well as who determines it."

"The new world will not be neat, and you will have to live with that."

- Joseph Nye



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PostSubject: Central Problem Central Problem Icon_minitimeFri Aug 28, 2015 2:48 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
There is only one relevant question in philosophy today: Did Nietzsche ask too much?

What a question... Beware, all those who enter, and all those who don't: this is the only way forward.
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PostSubject: Re: Central Problem Central Problem Icon_minitimeFri Aug 28, 2015 6:07 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
That is a very good question yes.

I believe Nietzsche didn't ask enough.



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I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Central Problem Central Problem Icon_minitimeFri Aug 28, 2015 12:12 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Pezer wrote:
There is only one relevant question in philosophy today: Did Nietzsche ask too much?

What a question... Beware, all those who enter, and all those who don't: this is the only way forward.

Do you mean did he ask too challenging a question, or did he demand too much of his true readers?

In the former case, I agree with Capable. In the latter, he may have asked too much _by_ asking too little. He walked dangerous, treacherous ground. Grounds that do not much agree with the terms he insisted on using.



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PostSubject: Re: Central Problem Central Problem Icon_minitimeFri Aug 28, 2015 2:25 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
If we are to go beyond Nietzsche, we cannot take him at his whims. We cannot be his disciples, and he didn't want any.

"For all and for none." This is good enough for a man who was going to be dead by the time it mattered.

How can he have asked too little? Nothing less than the reevaluation of all values. Not as an intellectual excercice, but as what matters when God and the afterlife are dead. As an acknowledging and loving of a genealogy that has taken us... Well, that is the question, can it take us? His language was the only one for asking. Perhaps you would have preferred stating, like sawelios? In that case, in full right, Nietzsche was insufficient.

In ILP, Jon Jones once wrote that individualism is missing the point of selfishness. He would have meant self value.
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PostSubject: Re: Central Problem Central Problem Icon_minitimeSat Aug 29, 2015 1:26 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, the idea of the revaluation of all values, Nietzsche saw this possible questioning but more or less pointed it out for everyone else to see. The problem was there, the response to it would/will take centuries, if ever it gets really addressed (or maybe never will).

The form of the question Nietzsche very well spoke to; but as for the contents of the question, the actual values, ideas and psychic- or world-aspects fallen under that heading, he could have done much more. In his own way Nietzsche too was an ideologue, a quasi-religious defender of cherished values, but I'm not faulting him for that at all. We all too need to live in this world which we subject to our philosophical questioning, and as FC said the terms Nietzsche wanted to use didn't jive well with the world he lived in.

Yes, he could have gone deeper. I mean where are his analyses of the primary human emotions, or a dissection of the psychological-existential structure of ideology, or for that matter human thought generally? Or where did he attempt to exhaust human "will" its many concepts and vital passions alike setting these upon a pyre of ruthlessly critical examination and weighing? More importantly, where did he go beyond all that and demonstrate a new method of being?

Nietzsche was pretty much the first to realize that all this would someday be possible. He did an excellent job laying the groundwork. And he did ask a ton of great questions, HATH and TI are probably my favorites if I had to just pick at a whim right now, in terms of the excellent questions he raised. But still, there is way more depth there to explore.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Central Problem Central Problem Icon_minitimeSat Aug 29, 2015 1:41 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Of course there's another side here tat you're right, he did question too much; he questioned too much to be healthy, too much by any human standard, "too much for his own good" as a non-philosopher might say. But that's just it, every philosopher by definition is someone who questions too much. That's the whole point- going beyond the veil of this world and of our habitual, unthinking psychological constraints, challenging everything, growing always larger in our constant questioning.

Nietzsche probably questioned too much to remain sane. However, there are two sides to this: first that he lived in a time unlike the time we live in today, had we been alive back then our own questioning too may have driven us insane; remember he was essentially the first one, and second that despite this immaturity of the world around him and in spite of his aloneness Nietzsche could perhaps have spared himself from madness if he had just kept going, if his questions had been just a little more removed from his prides and shames. The only cure for the ails of seeking into truth is to keep seeking more and more into truth, only truth can cure itself from the inevitably pains and madness required to seek at all.

So maybe the only question that does really matter, Do we stop along the path when it gets rough, do we seek common shelter or a safe place, do we tire and accept the suffering and madness of our half-finished philosophies, or instead do we continue to press forward, always and never stopping? Do we realize that willing the half-finished idea is the perfect antithesis of the philosophical spirit?



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Central Problem Central Problem Icon_minitimeSat Aug 29, 2015 2:43 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Quote :
Nietzsche probably questioned too much to remain sane.


This touches on the point of the OP as I understand it.

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However, there are two sides to this: first that he lived in a time unlike the time we live in today, had we been alive back then our own questioning too may have driven us insane; remember he was essentially the first one,

A Prometheus, who "rightly" suffered for his bestowing, on lesser beings, the 'light he stole from heaven' so to speak.

It has always seemed to me a perfect poetry that N underwent what he underwent, that he was tormented in such an Olympian fashion.

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and second that despite this immaturity of the world around him and in spite of his aloneness Nietzsche could perhaps have spared himself from madness if he had just kept going, if his questions had been just a little more removed from his prides and shames.

This is an interesting, very deep corner of this matter. I believe it touches, again, on the OP very directly. Pride and Shame. Now these are sensations that really matter here.

Is it not precisely N's acute sense of pride and shame, that allowed him to kill god, to discern that god was dead, to discern what had always been behind god?

What could N have accomplished if not for his intense fixation on pride and shame?

I think here also is the distinction between types of philosophy; the type that upholds foremost the idea of truth, and the type that upholds foremost the idea of experience. N was of the second type, and his notion of truth is a wholly experiential notion, he does not seek to include the notion of experience in the notion of truth.

In human self-valuing, shame and pride are basically 'no' and 'yes' respectively. I find it admirable that N held on to these phenomena until the end, as the philosophy he was birthing relies primarily on the establishment beyond question of the living ground of all thought.

I can not agree that N should have moved beyond or more distant from these things. The self-injuring character of his mind is precisely what makes it so perfectly reliable standing there, at the bloody dawn.



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PostSubject: Re: Central Problem Central Problem Icon_minitimeSat Aug 29, 2015 3:08 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I agree, Nietzsche's high nobility is unquestionably great. I too do not fault him at all, I simply see the places where more work is possible - and necessary.



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I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Central Problem Central Problem Icon_minitimeSat Aug 29, 2015 6:15 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The insight is the insight of a child left all alone in his house. "Why should I dwell on the wheres and wherefores of my father and my mother?" he might say, "look at this beutiful house!"

Indeed, the question is did he ask too much, with his pride and his shame? Did he ask too much beyond himself? Of us?

No, not to finish Nietzsche.

Nietzsche: a link in the chain of the ambition of ambitions for almost-monkeys.

The question is, can our pride be greater and our shame deeper?

It is not, as we know, a question of choice. Even of wondering if it is right. It is do we see it and can we do it?

Dangerous for Nietzsche?? Dangerous for us, perhaps! God was a pacifier. To be pacified... Is not to be satisfied.

Capable has already started the work, his work. But I would that he felt OUR need for his work.

Ambition until the las drop of blood, nothing less is our most real necessity. This does not mean to squander blood! The opposite!!!

And yet, real as this inevitability is, we still are required to choose it. Are we? This is the only relevant question to philosophers today.
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PostSubject: Re: Central Problem Central Problem Icon_minitimeSat Aug 29, 2015 6:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Indeed, his baby steps mark the initiation of an Aeon of thought; his work was to make a beginning with the work of getting man to think erect. Much of the weight of the overall consequences fell on him; we can compare him both to Prometheus and his brother, the heavy laden Atlas who was chosen to carry the world. A Titan to be sure. Titans represent suffering, Olympians represent the rewards of the suffering of Titans. This corresponds to Nietzsche and his aims; he sought to make possible an Olympus for the human race.

Capable, a question comes to me with great urgency now: how do you see the concept of an order of rank in the human species?

It is perhaps the most difficult question to answer explicitly, and not for intellectual reasons, but for political ones - politics first of all within ones own inner polis, ones family thereafter and then 'actual' politics of the state/tribe. It begins, Nietzsche would agree, with the rank-order as it exists within the individual. That was N's challenge to me when I first encountered him at a hard angle, around 2001; Was I a decadent, or a classical hero? Or both? But certainly not a decadent classical hero, - in as far as I felt a hero, it was an ascending star (no Nova of any kind, just a point of light visible to Earth), I was a rising sign - N might be seen as a sign of sundown, a scorpion, stinging himself to death.

But I am not an Atlas either. I can not risingly carry the whole world into rising. I am a riser - in fact this is what I called myself when I made raps - "Verrijzer" - a play on "Rza" -- I do not re-surrect, I have not risen before. I decided to try to sting myself to death, an undertaking initiated in the spring of 2003, as I began to identify myself with tribal politics - a world of blunt knives where I desperately sought out the least blunt one. This is how I walked into the path, how I gradually learned to conduct myself so as to be worthy of a sharp knife.

One of the most blatant accusings I've ever had to endure was "Be careful with that axe, Eugene!" My devil was very much pleased with himself, and this is what taught me the most.

I've always sought enemies, shamers. I noticed everyone is alone in a white forest ruled by innocence, a bleak absence of crimson, blue, blood shame and pride. We are trapped in this fleece until we learn of the proper dimension to move in, to cast shame, to raise pride - and the taste of the uncanny language wherein it is is written in the stars, and the difference between fate and fortune is whether or not one respects that luck as the partner in a inner matrimony. Inner offer.

Truth is revealed like a masters painting. "Suddenly it is given"
Truth is an infant. It has parents that once were truths themselves.

Thorns and agriculture, bleeding and sowing, conduct, resignation to a task, humility, endurance,

what does a notion do?
It asks of us that we comport ourselves as if it is a reality.
Was it too much, to ask us to live without gods entirely?

I imagine that one night Nietzsche sat up in bed, the phrase "le roi est mort, vive le roi!" rumbling through his head like pots in the belly of a ship in a storm, and a grin forming on his lips as he imagined for himself a heirdom of adequate proportions.

but to answer directly: as long as there are men there will be gods; gods are mans ways of valuing his valuing by imagination; a god is a product of taking seriously the inner world as one takes the outer; so serious as to investigate for necessary responses to the most subtle of cues; symbolism arose as this science, and our world is made up of symbols. We live among symbols, so that we have no choice but to become symbol.

The god who died had been mans protector from lesser gods. Ever since his death, these creatures of the night have come to haunt and it is our gift , this forest of chaos, in which to rediscover the old sticks and stones and cast the present from that urn over there in the corner. Yeah, the really dusty one. You needs glovers, maybe.

Shoo, little demons. But praise Zeus. Praise the praise to Zeus, praise the temple, the endurance of the terrifying aspect of beauty in the land where man came out of the shadow.



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PostSubject: Re: Central Problem Central Problem Icon_minitimeSun Aug 30, 2015 6:11 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Wow, great posts so far!


'Capable, a question comes to me with great urgency now: how do you see the concept of an order of rank in the human species? '


I don't think we have nearly the comprehensivity of mind, vantage or data to yet approach that question without perverting it. I let it hang out there rather than allow it to use various parts of me against each other for meager ends. But I agree the question needs to be raised now, we can formulate it and then hang it up in the stars of our highest future hope.

That which is, is. Truth is truth. That's as far as I get when it comes to what you ask. At some point we need to hold open unapproachable fathoms in ourselves as horizons within which to bound our consciousness; I like to let the deepest relations emerge 'spontaneously' rather than trying to force them.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Philosophers

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PostSubject: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 3:37 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This guy bought an island off the Greek fire sale, dirt cheap real estate from a people under massive oppression whose entire country is being carved up by rich globalist cronies. Europe should be ashamed of itself, if it had any fucking balls left it would be. Same Johnny depp and other actors seizing the opportunity to rape a culture and people for their own fucked vanity.

These influential wealthy actors should be using their power to affect the situation positively by speaking out and openly refusing to rape the Greek people. I mean what the fuck.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 4:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Why not? Give Greece back to the people. I trust Johnny Depp with the furthering of greek culture more than I do some government.

The greek will have to face up to not having a pathos beyond a 3000 year old history that mostly ended some 2100 years ago.

Fuck capitalists too, but... What, is Germany going to support mummies? I get Zizek, but to what end, Zizek? Put up (culturally) or shut up, Greece, with your dirty streets and ill-humered denizens.
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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 4:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I was very disappointed with the greek negotiations. What claim is Greece actively staking on its "own" ressources?

Tsipras was so misterious and promising... What's his plan now, a symbolic raping? To prove a point for the future?

Disappointing...
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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 5:51 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It's simple. Gradual indebtedness with eventual market and banking collapse, or as the international "news" headlines say, "Without massive new loans Greece to default on debts". Yeah. Like I said, what the fuck.

Governments are run by cheap insane cronies, culture, knowledge, dignity, vitality, art, passion, philosophy, it's all down the tubes according to the globally governing ethos now. Be careful not to fall into the trap of blaming the Greek people- they are and were no different from most the rest of western countries.

But I get it, the temptation to trust the hidden power brokers who rob and rape the rest. It's more philosophically comforting than aligning oneself with "average" humanity-- but notice, the categories are defunct. There is no philosophy here at all, hence what I wrote about the absolute difference between politics and philosophy. It will keep coming to a head, that abyss.

Humans die, cultures live longer and, while these die too, pass themselves on into history. What future is portended by Europe submitting itself to cheap tyranny of debt politics and privatization of nations?

You want to blame Greek people, sure, then point that finger right back at yourself too.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 5:52 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
And don't tell me "the people" didn't stand up and try to fight. They did. 60% of Greeks rejected the bailouts. They're the only people with a fucking heart, it seems.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 5:58 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Actually I personally fear Tsipras has been subjected to horrible criminal threats, possibly to his family. I have no illusions about any limits to the methods of bankers, and the giant turn Tsipras made suddenly, and without any apparent ground, made me suspect vey foul play. It was widely publicized that he was 'held hostage' is Brussels, put under violent pressure, blackmail, all that was in the open. But what lay behind that? If there's filth seeping into the open you can be sure there's shit a thousand times filthier going on in the background. No decision on this level (stealing nations) is made in relation to any socially acceptable norm. It is more likely the very vilest of human vileness that Greece was up against this summer.



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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 6:05 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Regarding Depp buying an island, I hope pezer is right and even that he is doing it in the spirit of 'old hippies', so to speak - the idea of buying cheap islands of this blackmailed country is nauseating to say the least, but I do feel a little less dread about this somewhat conscientious actor buying one than when it's done by fucking oil-sheiks.

On the Greek people, when I visited the country for the first time this winter, I encountered a people radically different from any I'd ever seen. I'd never seen a people with such calm, dignity, and overt vulnerability. I think that they are still roughly the same people as they were 2500 years ago. At the very least they still retain a part of their original spirit.

But this is no match for the power of the global financial elites; even in its glory days Greece had a hard time defending itself from the savage empire.



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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 6:15 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Just imagine how incredibly easy it would be to rule by the use of two separate paradigms; convince the public that a political process is going on and make it so intense that they are captivated and somewhat outraged. In the background, play it personal, use pressure points, true weaknesses, leave no means to influence unused. I don't think there's any question that politics is played this way, because the one who plays it this way would always be victorious.

But maybe I am being paranoid, and Tsipras is actually a completely spineless bitch. I prefer to doubt that.



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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 6:18 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I sent a letter to Tspiras and Varoufakis this summer, offering my help. I had the hope that there was a possibility of infusing politics with philosophy at this hazardous juncture. I wasn't 'filled with hope', I was just thinking if I do not write now I'm a fool.



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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 6:54 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
You're definetly right, I suppose.

I don't really have the strength to judge state and capitalist politics on their terms. All I have the strength for is finding the positive value in whatever happens and wonder what I can do, with my ressources, to take advantage. Politics for philosophers ought to be the politics of a child. Their arrogance is that they are unbullshitable, they opine carelessly because they have their own agenda which is so selfish as to be deeply empathetic.

Who says Machiavellian politics is dead? It will be dead when desire and thought are no longer possible at the same time, and then the only noble path is honest-to-goodness buhddism.

In this age, if a philosopher wants the prerrogative to philosophize, he will have to forsake rage.
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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 6:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
In the indespensible words of the Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy: DON'T PANIC

Don't panic also happens to be the only truly valuable lesson I learned from smoking weed. I used to wonder: "what advantage can I take from that dimension to help me?" Once I got high, with the fuck-its at 100, the only answer was "never panic. Useless."
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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 10:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Pezer wrote:
You're definetly right, I suppose.

I don't really have the strength to judge state and capitalist politics on their terms. All I have the strength for is finding the positive value in whatever happens and wonder what I can do, with my ressources, to take advantage. Politics for philosophers ought to be the politics of a child. Their arrogance is that they are unbullshitable, they opine carelessly because they have their own agenda which is so selfish as to be deeply empathetic.

Who says Machiavellian politics is dead? It will be dead when desire and thought are no longer possible at the same time, and then the only noble path is honest-to-goodness buhddism.

Wait, let's move past the specifics of Machiavelli and Buddhism for a second and focus only on the combining of desire and thought; as simple as it is, it is also the core of almost all ethical philosophy - granted I've had a few drinks and am bound to exaggerate even more than usual, but the two terms, in this context (so perhaps not forget the specifics) are of that quality that causes plasmic struggles, tectonic pining, proto-creation in my minds-eye;

Coupling desire and thought, it is not enough to think through the desire and infuse the thinking with the energy of desire, what is required is to have both build up in consciousness separately (I usually use my left an right field of imagination) and then by magic, merge them.

This is the technique of occultism and psychic power.
Parodites masters this fusion technique to ridiculous levels and appears to have developed his philosophy out of it.

The basic effect of it is energy. Thought x Desire (it's not an adding up but a fuller computing of both with each other) results in time, that is to say the fusion (it's not possible for me to describe how to bring about the fusion; one wills it but rather than pushing it, one 'expects it extremely welcomingly' - one leaves the two states in ones mind no other choice but to merge, but them must do it at their own chosen moment) causes a more direct awareness of being in time for a few seconds, as neither thought as such or emotion as such are possible now, the consciousness is single and thus the body is quite active; it could be that it is healing, or it could be dancing, or the head could be moving cat like in pure sensory concentration, but the will is engaged in the flesh; and thus thus, desire x thought = will, and we can not really accomplish anything in the outside world besides routines, if we do not arrive in this state.
No doubt, cocaine facilitates such a state; but in a weaker way than magic; I tried cocaine and my reaction was 'ah, they're just trying to be more like me' . What happens is that you believe your thoughts passionately; the philosopher does this because his thoughts are real, coke is a means to act is if they are real.

Anyway. I haven't done a fully fledged fusion for a long long time. The last time I did it was in 2004 or 2005. This set in motion a train of drastic events, creation and destruction, involving my writing and directing about islam on national television and breaking the ice after a political murder; it was necessity that pushed me to go so far as to attempt an actual occult 'coup d'Etat', by which I here mean 'taking of state' with 'state' as state of will - even though the things we made were explicitly shaped to resemble a state-intervention by the royal house -- I am rambling along nicely, talking about it brings me back to that state which had ended prematurely; and this state is the state in which magicians conduct politics. They exert influence on their own terms, of which laugher is the first. You can not do high politics without relishing the absurdities on which it is grounded and by which it is surrounded. Laughter is the way to isolate the rational self-valuing from the world, which is a monster of energy and only rational in the most utilitarian sense.

Quote :
In this age, if a philosopher wants the prerrogative to philosophize, he will have to forsake rage.

Here I become like Capable, outright, absolute rejection of politics. Let the world go up in flames before I give up my rage.

But I can ultimately give up on expressing it in a typically angry fashion. That is what happens when the merger takes place; rage becomes intelligent. It becomes like a lucid orb (like in "The Abyss") of tangible futurality, in which ones 'vengeance' (one's kindness and keen-ness, for a large part) becomes crystallized in the extreme coherence of an unfolding plan, and an unfolding discipline to act in accordance with that plan. At this stage, the world begins to bend toward the will of the magicians, and small miracles begin to happen. Gates open, materials appear, allies present themselves, and laws don't seem to matter as much anymore.

Remind myself now of the "This is she!" tirade Mercutio gives off, but it's still all very true.

Magic even taught me how to dance.



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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 10:28 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"Expects it extremely welcomingly." You are without a doubt one of my favorite people.

Ya, ya. That's what I meant about the rage. Vengeance feels no rage, but it does feel an unrelenting drive.

It kills me that Nietzsche turns out to be right at every point. I swear I don't go out to venerate him, he just had the unalianable power of being right.

But we'll see. Napoleon had military, I have philosophy.
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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 10:33 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I would like to add that, as in everything else, the apt philosopher finds a wealth of truth in vengeance that transcends the vengeance itself.
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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 10:41 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
No, I AM right, the philosopher must forsake rage if he wants to retain his prerrogative to philosophize. I used it to make a political vengeance, to become a politician, and forsook my prerrogative. Like Moses (a star in The Prince, by the way).

We don't all have to. Those who do should help me, and those who don't, and forsake rage, will help most by philosophizing.

Philosophizing on health.
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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 11:30 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster


This was sort of the theme song to the operation as it began to take shape, when it was still called "Jihad against Hate", in which the impulse of rage doubling down on itself to transcend itself is visible. It later, when the magic began to breathe, acquired a more "golden" name, as it took on that golden nature of play and symbolism became available. That's when you know you're in.

The project lasted about a year and a half from the murder to the moment where I either fucked up or was wise - shifted my attentions to music, and my inner world. If we had continued we'd have started a political party, real but as satire. A year later another network did just that. But not with a fake-crazy muslim but a two hot chicks, and it was instantly forgotten. I chickened out because my family was radically against it and the project required my fullest commitment, I was torn and that was it. The wand-wielding magic disintegrated and I shifted to music, inner world; made a rap album that is primarily painful and stranded in a few years of desert. Then I rediscovered the magical impulse Pluto's transit into Capricorn (we all remember november 2008) and was able to come alive again, find film work, a girlfriend, a house. From that girlfriend came lie in Vienna and the raven-visited window where I had the insight about the scientific impulse that led to a deeper science.

To me it's all both magical and 'emotionally unstable' - whether it's rage or sorrow or fear or mania, philosophy is carried by the storm, and only by embracing that storm it can become its silent eye.

Before that moment, one may have to do a lot of this.



You're pressing me to understand myself, and I am perhaps only speaking for myself -- to philosophize, all emotions need to be felt at once, and this state is both a rage and a silence, as it produces 'mind'. Mind is nothing but the controlled alchemy of the emotions. One can not think great thoughts if one does not feel deep passion. Passion relies on all the emotions. This is all new to me but I agree with myself. This is path. The pan-emotional school, politicizing the emotions rather than the mind. Philosophy as a possible outcome.

Health and Rage; the two feel so drawn to each other to me, almost as man and woman.

But here's the thing: one can not philosophize and be rageful at someome, or something. It is required that one not care about what caused the rage; to be grateful for the stimulus even, this is proper vengeance served cold. It leaves high-arched memories in the heart.



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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 11:52 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, philosophy is moved by deep things. Rage... Rage is a concecuence of understanding Nietzsche. He reminds us that there is much more in store and our first instinct is to hate unhealth. We revel in lashing out, to use our intelligence to affirm our superiority.

I followed that path with the love of fire that defines me, and ended up quite quickly (as I planned) at a door. "Fuck it, lesse what's there," I said.

I found the world wanting. And this is politics, as Sawelios has aptly said. To be dead-set on allowing any like one's self to open the door and keep revelling. To keep the joy of philosophy and the possibility of the ubermensch's joy alive.

I only see two paths for this. To turn inwards into philosophy and seek a cold betterment and to turn outwards into the world and find water. Both are needed, any one person can only do one.

To stand before this choice and not make it: well, I suppose it's possible too. I don't see a lot of future for it. I don't because I am not dealing in theory or conjecture, but animal truth.

I do wonder if it's too hardcore, I have always been cruelest to my friends. But I am a fire guy, and fire burns. It's the good wet stuff that stops the burning, what is still alive.
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PostSubject: Re: Fuck Johnny Depp Fuck Johnny Depp Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2015 12:23 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Pezer wrote:
Yes, philosophy is moved by deep things. Rage... Rage is a concecuence of understanding Nietzsche. He reminds us that there is much more in store and our first instinct is to hate unhealth. We revel in lashing out, to use our intelligence to affirm our superiority.

I followed that path with the love of fire that defines me, and ended up quite quickly (as I planned) at a door. "Fuck it, lesse what's there," I said.

I found the world wanting. And this is politics, as Sawelios has aptly said. To be dead-set on allowing any like one's self to open the door and keep revelling. To keep the joy of philosophy and the possibility of the ubermensch's joy alive.

I share your sentiments. It's the reason a library would work an a bookshop wouldn't.

Quote :
I only see two paths for this. To turn inwards into philosophy and seek a cold betterment and to turn outwards into the world and find water. Both are needed, any one person can only do one.

I've created my pearl, have been at the peak of my abstract capacity, and can only do justice to it now by prying open the oyster of the world.

I have no illusions. That is at least the punchline if the joke resounds.



Quote :
To stand before this choice and not make it: well, I suppose it's possible too. I don't see a lot of future for it. I don't because I am not dealing in theory or conjecture, but animal truth.

I do wonder if it's too hardcore, I have always been cruelest to my friends. But I am a fire guy, and fire burns. It's the good wet stuff that stops the burning, what is still alive.

It's not too hard core, it's precisely appropriate. Cruelty is good, if it means to demand, to set difficult goals, or to impose limits that guide the will along an intelligent course ("evolution") - nature is merciless and fortune favors the bold. The laws of Heraclitean fire. Only boldness can amount in mercy.

Surplus and mercy are related.

New symbols of mercy.





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PostSubject: VO clusterbomb VO clusterbomb Icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2015 1:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
4 years of vo talk on ilp has completely overthrown the epistemic order there. it started with satyr thinking about it in his neanderthal manners; producing the idea that values this values that blah blah ( not actually an idea but what was on his mind). This was followed by years of debate where i tried to explain. no avail. right now the outcome is that half of them do not believe in facts anymore; the other half hating the notion of values.

it is a small testpool and its utter ruin isnt a great loss, but it is awesome to see how the raw force of a misunderstood but correct principle can wreak havoc in the collective mind.

one lesson to learn is that the people do need religion and not philosophy. i have a debate upcoming with Sauwelios, about Nietzsches proposed religion of Dionysos and Ariadne. That should, while not being the form I currently see as fit (or understand) at least serve as a start to thinking through a 'spiritual diet' that leads from bloated nihilism to fresh greens.



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PostSubject: Re: VO clusterbomb VO clusterbomb Icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2015 1:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I'll put my two cents in here right away:

A religion needs to exist already for real and understand itself before it is given to the people, or it will surely be fleshed in with their previous devotion. It can have a lot of power, but not tyrannycal power.

The means create the ends: the devotion is implemented first. Those who implement it must already know God.

See effective religion cannot be a lie. Kierkegaard's leap of faith: there is something worth venerating.
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PostSubject: Re: VO clusterbomb VO clusterbomb Icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2015 2:01 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Further still: religion is for the high. Only a sublimely tyrannical spirit has need for religion. The people need to be awakened, not to philosopohy, not to religion, but to life.
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PostSubject: Re: VO clusterbomb VO clusterbomb Icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2015 2:10 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"Give 'em the greens first. They'll come around on the rest..."

Life is a tough motherfucker. Joy is spontaneous in it, it precedes all veneration. God has been man's barrier to life for a very long time: what god can now do the opposite? They need to breathe first. They need assurances.
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PostSubject: Re: VO clusterbomb VO clusterbomb Icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2015 2:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"Pleased to meet you... Won't you guess my name?
Yes, what's troubling you is the nature of my game."
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PostSubject: Re: VO clusterbomb VO clusterbomb Icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2015 3:11 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Happy to hear that VO has succeeded in disrupting ILP. I'm not at all surprised. But give it time, more members there will start coming around to the idea, I bet. The rest will just keep going insane, which becomes boring for everyone after a while.



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I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: VO clusterbomb VO clusterbomb Icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2015 1:58 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Pezer wrote:
I'll put my two cents in here right away:

A religion needs to exist already for real and understand itself before it is given to the people, or it will surely be fleshed in with their previous devotion. It can have a lot of power, but not tyrannycal power.

The means create the ends: the devotion is implemented first. Those who implement it must already know God.

See effective religion cannot be a lie. Kierkegaard's leap of faith: there is something worth venerating.

Agreed.
I can never relate to the philosophers who found it difficult to venerate; this is my default position, veneration. Now what is especially worthy of being venerated is the actual qualities of qualities, or forms of forces, that for your world, body and psyche.

Anyone who gives me his birth date, time and place, I will know in a sense better than he will know himself. I once did an online analysis of a troubled rocker guy, I thought he had given the data of this radically troubled friend he talked about and whose chart I had offered to read to help him gain insight in her compulsions. So he gave me data, and I saw a chart with a very serious but beautiful conflict, which I spelled out to him with religious intensity. The reading was very accurate, he said, but it wasn't his friend but himself. I don't now who of us fucked up, but the outcome was painful. An astrologer's first job is to hide most of the truth he sees. Well the first job is to survive the truth he sees about himself. Astrologers are the most weathered souls. Philosophers can never be confronted with truth that does no in some way follow from what they already understand to be necessary; the astrologer is cofronted with facts he knows to be true like one know the heart is struck, in fact that chart strikes directly on the heart. It takes a good while for the blow to 'form', for the impact to resound out of enough different corners of the web to give an experience of a character, of 'someone'. When it does this is understood by the heart, a 'main drive' is perceived, jumps out takes on a face, an identity, one is now talking to a person. Looking at a chart with the person present is like a life of psychoanalysis condensed in half an hour.
But it can also reveal the strengths of commanders, and, there are several methods, one of which especially effective, to determine key moments of impact, where a particular type of transformation is inevitable. The progressed moon chart, it is never off. Of course it requires a good reader, a psychologist as well as an abstract pattern reader. But good astrologers abound. There are many who are better than I am at picking out the Leo's or Libra's out of a crowd by observing their faces. I often have to take two guesses for someones sun sign. It will happen that I think she's a Libra but she is Pisces and Libra on the Ascendant. But even amateur astrologers averages are well above what would be plausible if it wasn't hermetically valid.

So yes, a divine order does exist. Uncertainty exists on all levels below the human scale, but there is no grand randomness, no uncertainty in terms of greatness, previously known as gods, now known as mans vision of the cosmos of which he is part. There is nothing that hasn't been honed to perfection by the sheer possibility of everything, and the limitlessness of time. This - and here is where I am truly in the dark - applies besides to whatever we may have in mind, especially to the relation of the human body to this body's perspective on the cosmos. Day or night, full moon or new moon, winter or summer - these are rudiments. But causal relationships, precisely because they have been so universally 'valuable' (expedient) to stand out of all other hypothetically possible conditions, drill into the nature of things with more pervasive results than we tend to attribute to them. The star Aldebaran - where is he in your chart? 9 Gemini. Do you have a conjunction? Regulus, 0 Virgo, the kingmaker star. High rises and deep falls. Vega, I thought 13, 14 or 15 Capricorn, star of the lyre, magical. If I say too much this becomes a religious dithyramb, but this is what is necessary now.

But I am part of a circle so I will perform precisely these religious rites which serve the interests decided upon in the ways decided upon by philosophical thought.

We are back in the sun, contemplating the possible edifice. By astrology I have at my command a properly working knowledge of human quality as it is distributed though men and women. It is all without objective value, but it is not without objective quality. So the question is how do we value the given qualities. Astrology provides facts, philosophy sets values. Now, Pezer has agreed with me that Mars and Venus are suitable first values.

Roughly speaking, Venus represents a persons values, and Mars represents the persons drive. Mars in Capricorn will be methodical and ascetic, Mars in Leo will be indulgent and awesome, Mars in Scorpio will be pervasive and very tough, Mars in Virgo will be an extremely focused strength, beyond the reach of normal concentration, Mars in Aquarius will be silent and free, Mars in Aries will be impulsive and dominant, Mars in Taurus will be brutally strong, Mars in Gemini produces military genius, Mars in Cancer... weird... would 'emote martially', be dominant within emotions, be very internally oriented, but fearless. Sagittarius... that is a good Mars placement, ruled by Jupiter. Like Jupiter is good in Aries. But Jupiter is good everywhere. At least in terms of the sign he's in - not in terms of the squares he makes. Jupiter squares are true problems, problems gods would have. They thus also make the possessor of that problem god-like in his need, and this is all human, there are many people with such squares, I being one of them. But with Saturn and Sun. Which are opposed. This is excruciating and awesome at once. That;s most usually he case - excruciating aspects belong to people with great experiences - but our ties are ready or this truth now, in other ages these aspects were considered downright evil.

Beyond astrology, which is only a tool for the one who must wield it, there is a far greater philosophical 'cause of order' - in fact the reason that astrology works can be gathered from how we conceive of the primal nature and the absence of beginnings to this order, and there is where I steer away from Nietzsche's kamikaze dive into sameness; the consequence of infinite time is not recurrence of the same arbitrary things but, because life is will to power and not a game of billiards, a process of endless increase. This is how the galaxies are honed, fallen together. It is however not an I am sure that if the whole atomic order were to collapse, it will do so orderly and as a majestic harvest of values, a coming together of all self-valuings in terms of each others natural conjectures; the universe can not collapse if its constituents are at odds with each other. The big crunch will be taken like Crowley to death: open eyes, eager for what is beyond.

Does any of this make sense? I am, as always when I attempt cosmology in writing, bitterly disappointed with what turn out t structurally be mere ramblings. Norally I would delete it but that would ruin my night probably as this shit costs me a lot of energy - all these combinations require being them, energy -

I liked of all things I contemplated the most Mars in Aquarius and Mars in Cancer. Virgo was also interesting.

Okay, I think I do need to do this, construct a 'temple' where Mars and Venus are explained in terms of basic placements and aspects; to be part of this religion, one has to accept it as truth, thus operate as if it is true, thus not try to gan knowledge without information.

Astrology works best if the hour is known to the minute. But for the method I use, a general time of day is sufficient; I look mainly at aspects, angles. It often happens that I study a chart for an hour and realize I don't even know the persons sun sign. What fascinates me is the direct alchemy between the planets. The alchemy occurs in my mind, and this is an addictive process. The alchemy is strongest in terms of the aspects because these transition in all these various ways. When Neptune trines Pluto, whole generations can grow up with it, but when Mars trines the Moon, that is a bunch of persons three times every month. Mars trining the Moon while sextiling the Sun happens less frequently, and any other aspect that is made further deepens the uniqueness of the chart, until there is an absolute uniqueness, which is necessarily always the basis, as even twins do not come out at once. No astrological situation can occur twice, there are too may layers involved and the out layers simply disintegrate as they 'rotate', but do so so slowly that we don't even notice they progress at all.



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PostSubject: Re: VO clusterbomb VO clusterbomb Icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2015 2:45 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Happy to hear that VO has succeeded in disrupting ILP. I'm not at all surprised. But give it time, more members there will start coming around to the idea, I bet. The rest will just keep going insane, which becomes boring for everyone after a while.

It's cool that people are actually suspended between states now. They are properly confused. I am coming around to Sauwelios' idea of cruelty.



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PostSubject: Re: VO clusterbomb VO clusterbomb Icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2015 2:56 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Don't be bitter. It happens to me when I write of my deepest realizations.

Like astrological charts, these realizations are so unique in their power that to explain them would require a "ritualistic" situation not achiavable on the internet and not necessarily desirsable, even among the most kindred of spirits. What doesn't fail to come through is the power of it. Poweful minds either stash it or want to use it, both causing deep ripples.

More accomplished philosophers, like Capable and Parodites, don't seem to have this problem. Their epiphanies happen on the paper, and this is what I need philosophy for, as I said, what we all do: make power patent. Humility and effectiveness in all things that follow from the epihanies of the less philosophically inclined, things that in turn cannot fail to impress and inspire a philosopher.

We must serve only them, because they cannot help but serve us. This loop is magnificent, and it requires that those like us hone our influence to the maximum. As we breed world, they will give it name.

And no manner of powerful mind, from the eldest times to the furthest away, will ever be fooled into missing the power of this.
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PostSubject: Re: VO clusterbomb VO clusterbomb Icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2015 3:51 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I wasn't being bitter - merely understating.
Deep down I like to see the fires from which things will emerge. I am perhaps quite "evil", without knowing it. Who isn't? Some people say. I wouldn't know.

Is knowledge painful? Often, yes. But often enough, it does us a whole lot of good, one hit of good knowledge can thrive in an for days, weeks he forgets are weeks and not seconds; experiences become archetypes in us first, then some of us feel in our psychedelic insufficiency compelled to draw a mark on a wall.

Venus and Mars - how the solution to a dead monogod may be the throning of a pair of gods.

It's more exciting. But not confusing.

Perfect!

Here, in my innocence, I had said:

Pezer wrote:
"Pleased to meet you... Won't you guess my name?
Yes, what's troubling you is the nature of my game."

Yeah but listen.
The Church forbids Astrology. Why? Because it is more powerful than their god, and their devil combined. The Devil doesn't exist. There is the planet Venus, called Lucifer the Light Bearer, without the favor of which no person will succeed in manipulating another to his own pleasure. Then there is Mars, Ares the much hated god, without whose favor a man cannot strike true in combat. These two together form a pact or a war in the chart, and sometimes the war is better than the pact. Sometimes the pact is so powerful that it comes to represent a paradigm of violence and morals, such as is the case with Adolf Hitler, who has Venus and Mars both in Taurus, at the moment that the Sun enters the sign.

Okay so let this religion be based on the most objective standard of power we have, which is Adolf Hitler. Evil is of no concern to astrology, only power and quality. The qualities of Venus and Mars coincided in Hitler to produce, quite simply, a superior man. The same is the case of Winston Churchill, and Roosevelt, the former of which especially has my great favor. I do not like Hitler, but this makes him an all too much the greater standard. The point against which other powers are pitted. It is convenient at last because it leaves it completely open what "Venus" and "Mars" actually mean. They bear no characteristic separate of one another. Now we must find a person in who they stand opposed.
Ok - Michael Gorbachov and Jay Leno stand out.
Gorbachov: Venus in Capricorn with Saturn, and Mars in Cancer with Jupiter and Pluto.
Leno: Venus in Pisces with Jupiter against Mars and a conjunction of Saturn and Moon in Virgo.

Venus is completely in her element here, Mars is perfectly at the service of what is apparently a quite ruthless emotional scrutiny. If the birth-time is correct he has the love in his own house, the first, and the diligent, subdued martial scrutiny in the house of 'the other one', the seventh house.

Letterman has in a rather precise manner the opposite situation: he too has Venus in Pisces, its romantic, self-sacrificial element, but he has mars on the zero point, at 0 Aries, which is the moment he takes signifiership away from Venus. So the moment the balance tipped from romance into the favor of the initiative, he received his first 'zap'.

{"they"} be calling that as such.

This here piece be called the lecture under the palm tree.



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PostSubject: Re: VO clusterbomb VO clusterbomb Icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2015 3:52 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
My rather unfalsifiable claim of self knowledge was meant as a formal provocation, something a priest must do as part of initiation. I take this quite as seriously as you, and none of this is a result of your natural inhibition to give me even more power. Lol. But seriously, of course Im not pissed. I think it offends mainly Capable, Parodites being completely above it being serious or not, becaus Capable is the one who really nows what introspection is. But it is nonetheless contains an element of truth: I a privy to some secrets not all men have. Your refusal, Pezer, we shall hereonforth know as the pezerian refusal, or pezers refusal, part of the code of ehtics we instruct to every formal disciple. It is valuable information, and its interpretation is an act of ritual as you say, quite simply, the reading must do justice to the life, or it is an injustice.



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PostSubject: Re: VO clusterbomb VO clusterbomb Icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2015 4:02 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I hope you see the finesse of the distinction between knowledge and philosophy well enough to appreciate the effort I've made to keep the two separate for ten years. I have never let astrology influence my philosophy,but I had to devise a philosophy that could withstand it. I have kept mostly silent about this aspect of VO's power until the moment when insight into Parodites thinking allowed me to bring it more synthetically into the realm of thought. Having waited ten years, I now act rashly and I need to assert the difference between the astrologer and the philosopher in a political project.

The philosopher sets values
the astrologer sets up the situation
the artist 'goes to work' 'gets his hands dirty'

Philosophical insights are often moments of restraint, and recognition of qualities outside of oneself. But such is only possible if a picture of a larger coherence is within reach of anticipation - oversight. The Greeks had no name for him. Metametheus.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:42 pm

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PostSubject: confusion anout what philosophy is confusion anout what philosophy is Icon_minitimeSat Sep 26, 2015 10:24 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
my astrological exploits here as well as my (well justified but hard to verify for you all thus also ill justifed) proclaiming its exact and unambiguous, inevitable truth, i.e. its scientific nature, has caused, it seems, a dangerous confusion. My fault has been to assume all the philosophers understand me as a devil. I dont say such things as i did about my position in the thread below without a crooked grin. The priest has long been object of scorn and i play with this. But i made it quite clear that this is a matter of politics, not of truth. i assume we can jest among each other at least about power and rank. if not we need to learn to be a bit more philosophical, as souls. the dancing god. Nietzsche is still greater than all of us combined. Can you read that sentence as i mean it? learn to read me, all you who cant see the dance in the flame. Learn to read Nietzsche. What is wisdom? dance and laughter foremost, as symptoms? If so, we have not understood how that would be separate from essence. what is love of wisdom? to think unrestrained and in pure joy, which includes all suffering.

pezer says philosophy is negative, subtractive. the greeks say it is life itself, the best thing in it. i say it is the structure of the mind, in as far as it grasps itself. That means: impossible without dance. A symptom of itself then?

BTL philosophers are known (by themselves and each other) to rearrange this structure, to deepen it and refine it and make it whole: clear about what it is.

what you, pezer see as negativity i see as the most arid form of honesty. thinking can never be truly negative - that word designates forms of reflexivity, which itself is a derived positive. None of it all is subtractive, except in how a sculptor subtracts from a marble block to make a form, and how a father kills for his children.

What do I not see?
i think we shoukld take a plunge, and purge of my naughty games.



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PostSubject: Re: confusion anout what philosophy is confusion anout what philosophy is Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 1:02 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Now Paroites says, about "negativity":

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One of the central points in my philosophy of consciousness is that the apparent stream of consciousness is only the residuum of reflex-affect carried through the domain of the real ego struggling with death and dissolution, and that fully human consciousness is the product of something almost opposite to a stream, namely discontinguous states of acausal abruption within the order of affects, whereby linguistic-abstract symbols, which stand outside of temporal relations, are utilized to reify the real ego, that is, the feeling of affective unity, as ideal, cohered in the transcendent horizon of meaning.

I believe this to be correct, at least I can verify it with my own experience of the emerging of a rounded form consciousness, around my seventh year. I would lie awake every light contemplating being as a giant 'cookie with a hole' which filled me with horror. Obviously I was becoming aware of the discrepancy of the permanence of what Parodites here calls the ideal ego, as it was being forced, through human nature and custom, upon my mind, which was however keen enough to notice that something was awry. Whatever appeared or was presented as solid (and this goes for the desired experience of a whole ego as well as for the desired existence of a finite and whole universe) evoked in me a terrifying certainty that it was existentially torn, endlessly empty, creepily false, all-swallowingly hollow, etc, a certainty so absolute that it was all I could see at night. Years passed by and I managed to forget the questioning and focus on astronomy and my children's games. But as I had completed my high school (a form of play, relaxation and distraction from thought) the notions started coming back. Of course then followed many years years of intense drug use, in which it was easy to find forms of the contradictions - but these forms also broke the mind-forms that I needed in the world to survive. So I oriented on politics, which to the thinker is a form of sardonic comedy, and did some stuff with contradictions out in the world. Then came a period of music, and finally I found a true lover, which forced me to be completely honest. Through passages of death and madness around us, my path focused itself on finally resolving the problem that had kept me awake in my earliest years of ontological reflection. I used Heidegger to raw closer to the 'negative being' at the center of our notions and experiences of being. What I found is that rather than being less than whole, the world is far more than whole. The idea of "the world" and "the self" as physical things is the cause of the cookie - the absence of a true idea.

Value ontology is, finally, true idea. It first of all allows us to conceive of being as becoming, to do away with the silly dichotomy altogether, and of wholeness as something local, relative, forceful, conquered, as Nietzsche saw it but could not make epistemic. It draws a picture in the box at which Nietzsche pointed his arrows. It does what Heidegger broke himself to reach, being free of his resentful, Christian, fearful notion of the world, being at ease with the destruction of every thing.

The world had forgotten that it is made out of pride, and turned inward to discover humility, only to discover in the end that the only tenable humility is a higher form of pride. This pride scorns 'things' and only accepts 'world'. And world, by no means, as a thing. It accepts only the most acute acting as real. It sees, and this is new entirely, that much of what we call 'the world' does not exist. Many people walk around not existing. It thus sets an incomparably higher and realer (more demanding, life enhancing) standard than any philosophy set before it, at least since the times where philosophy came in the form of commanding poetic religion and sublime architecture - the times where truth was understood, even if not formally.

Of course I suffer of this standard, for one thing because it is impossible to uphold within the world which is built on that incomparably lower standard, for another because even in seclusion it demands of me the most outrageous hubris even to consider it a true standard. Considering 2500 years of human passionate labor to be both completed and rendered irrelevant, I have too much reverence to 'like' this. This is my main problem, I respect the old errors to much for the beautiful people that made them, and the wondrous worlds built on them. Who indeed is to say truth is preferable? What kind of world will this true standard bring forth?

This is the reasons I can not afford to ignore astrology anymore.

One synthetic proof of Parodites philosophy of mind is that his model does not preclude the veracity of astrology, but rather makes it elegantly plausible. This is quite remarkable, given that he likely never never took it seriously enough to investigate it. This is the mark of absolute honesty - its results can not contradict reality.

All of being is, in as far as it is manifest, 'negative' - that is to say every self-valuing is not the next one; its difference is precisely "what it is in the world". The 'inner world' of a non sentient self-valuing is per definition inscrutable beyond 'self-valuing'. We do not know the forces that keep the atom together, beyond that it is 'self-valuing'. Science has o ways of reaching for an understanding of such forces, gravity, electricity, etc philosophy has to do this, because philosophy alone can incorporate the structure of conception itself. And philosophy finally understood that conception is no different from being, that all being is 'conception' in a rudimentary sense, being is conceived out of what it is not and what it is both - a being is therefore always both the same and fundamentally different from other being.

In the mind, the 'what it is not' is the whole of the world into which it will dissolve eventually, 'death' - but as this is realized, death is in every moment, and its antithesis becomes stronger every thus-realized moment. Knowing 'the hole in the cookie' is the same as baking one without a hole. One can not know by merely seeing, one must act, as Parodites says at first such acting is denial, moving away from its roots, but gradually this moving away brings us back to the roots, and this is the point we are standing at now.

::

Utilitarian, politics, this world, the future:

No one has been here before. The cosmos whirls around us. This is the time to take the gods by the hands, and guide them back into the world. There is nothing here besides immense gain of value - it is essentially a means of arranging beings so as to have more chance of actually being.

The ways in which we are limited are more extensive than the materialist can deal with - but materialism is deader than dead but can only be be put in its grave by philosophy. It is almost literally a question of having the stomach to approach the corpse. This is my most repulsive task - even to consider that there are still materialists after the 20th century is incredibly disturbing. The complete absence of sanity in the astrophysical models we use - even the hollow notion of the creator god was more sane.

I ask only of you that you take me seriously enough to contemplate the enormous burden I have taken on by being both logician and occultist. Herein I stand completely alone. Even the Theosophists, the mightiest of modern occult teachers, only approach the notion of which the permutations they can work out by the most rigorous observation of nature, coming about as far as the far mightier Sanskrit philosophers did before them. I know where I stand, and what's more, Im the only one who knows this.

So forgive me my playfulness from time to time - I have to find a way to be light footed enough to forge a wholesome world-politics out of a pile of rotting corpses.



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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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confusion anout what philosophy is Empty
PostSubject: Re: confusion anout what philosophy is confusion anout what philosophy is Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 1:59 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
We are all firsts and we all resent not being fully appreciated out of a simple, almost religious appreciation of power. We don't wield it in as far as it was already there, but we see its effects around us and the vulnerability people have acquired offends us. Deeply. All of us. Even the cool Parodites and indifferent Sawelios. This is why we convieved of a politics, and those of us who walked into power furthest from it still end up helping.

So, yeah, everything is so beautifully circular and chaotic. Perhaps I can resume my highest idea yet as this: the best way to adore chaos is order.

Anyway, nothing to forgive. Might is right Razz!
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PostSubject: Re: confusion anout what philosophy is confusion anout what philosophy is Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 5:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Something close to occultism, I have deeply studied and utilized concepts in Jewish and Gnostic mysticism, as in Lurianic kabbalah. Astrology, like them, is a system for psychologically unifying the inner and outer; the last girl I was fucking, who I liked, was really into Tarot cards, and gave me readings, and I understood it as a similar system.


Indeed the truth we are discovering is an immanent ground of pure negation- but this is only the engine of philosophy, not philosophy itself or the fuel, which are not merely positive but also genuine excess. As I write:


A daemonic philosophy emerges as the suffering endured by its own violence to itself,
never as a simple response to a question or to any series of questions- never as a response
at all; for, seeing as there is no question that can be meaningfully posed to the Absolute,
the absolute toward which thought has been irretrievably bent and with which it has at
last identified itself, in which it has found the wellspring of its own life and power- the
absolute toward which alone it has organized its movement and attuned the rhythm of its
heart, so it is that the genuine philosophy is born of no need to reconcile itself with any of
the temporary, the finite, and the entirely dependent forces outside of it, for there are no
forces outside it, whether they are presumed to consist in the extraneous requisitions and
postulates of a moral system, in the demand for practical and scientific utility, or in the
merely psychological needs of the kind of primate man happens to have evolved into; in
short, one's philosophy emerges as the pure excess, in whose mirror the image of the
Absolute only can be seen- and one's philosophy is that image; one's philosophy pushes
every modality of perception, every emotion, and each motivating impulse and drive to its
extremity and most distant point of isolation from every other, and in that expanded tone-scale
of experience discovers new, stranger, more remote harmonizations, flowing forth
neither as life's instrument or as her guiding genius, but as one's life itself, as one's heroic
freedom; extending itself throughout the whole order of creation, not in pathetic
submission to the reality-principle, but as itself the kind of super-abundance that could
never have been preceded by a state of deprivation and want. There is no question at the
heart of thought, and therefor no answer to be discovered; unconsciously, philosophy has
pursued the wrong ground for itself, for that ground is a positive excess.



___________
ΑΝΤΗΡΟΠΑΡΙΟΝ,
in formis perisseia mutilata in omnia perisarkos mutilatum;
omniformis protosseia immutilatum in protosarkos immutilata.

[ The Ecstasies of Zosimos, Tablet
the First.]

BTHYS TOU ANAHAT KHYA-PANDEMAI.








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PostSubject: A Polemic Against Magic A Polemic Against Magic Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 8:20 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Magic is the furthest thing from absolute knowledge. Being absolute, it claims territory that belongs to knowledge, and the falcity of this birth begets the insufficiency of its effects. Its results are perfect, speaking all the more against knowledge. They steal truth from moments in the name of principles that were derived from knoweldge.

A magically created personality will never mesh with reality. Thus, the powerful powers of nature are co-opted from their chain of cause-concecuence. As Leibniz might have said, it pretends to play with souls outside of their enviornment.

But let's speak seriously. Magic is a mistake engendered by a missunderstanding of astrology... It takes its effects to supercede manimal. A human, a man, is a mammal. The effects of astrology on him or her are subservient to this truth. Man will never serve extra-human masters. They have never even served gods, except in the damned case of the egyptians. It is the power of gods that is diverted to our uses, and this is the nature of sacrifice. More a power-diverting block than a reward (who would dare the blasphemy of rewarding a god, I do not know). Man, deep down, worships only man (as I said, excepting the damned case of the egyptians).

To abstract astrological principles from their mundane effects and attempt to work with the gods on their level is a blindness. It can never work like the effects of the gods, because the gods don't affect men as powerfully, or at least directly, as men affect thought.

Are we all coming out of the closet? I worship Dionisus, Baccus, Baco. The one who most loves. I would that all philosophers did, because it is a joy without restraints, but I do not command or seek to command the power of direct convinsal. All I can say is this: that he both fits a more pleasing image of the devil and will allow all of your dearest held powers to be joyus. As long as you know your place as man, you can learn to relate to the desires of a God. Are you a woman? What joy! Nobody will understand worship of god like you, you will be unrestrained (as well).

Let me be heard: all gods come from Chaos, as all things. And, also, all gods respect eachother.

If you ail, it is not magik that you need. It is fresh air.













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PostSubject: Conceptual stasis Conceptual stasis Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 12:09 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Somewhat of a response to FC's post "confusion about what philosophy is".. We are maybe reaching points now where the most categorical and psychologically coherent of our concepts nevertheless are inadequate to afford resolution and continued progress of truth, I see this manifesting in how our philosophies are beginning to diverge along their respective will to power cores and become somewhat unspeakable to each other. But we are noble enough not to fall victim to this, we seek a way out, which means a way forward. I would posit this requires new concepts entirely, which would mean new concepts to hold and explain - to new depths - the older ones. We must therefore invent.. language! This is why philosophy is eminently a psychological method: one cannot stretch those kinds of boundaries without impacting far more than the "merely cognitive" data.

Also, it happens that just for everyone else too for philosophers, each has a distinct personality. It's possible the different strains of philosophy historically were developed not simply because of differences in capacity or achievement in philosophical work and effort, but more so because each philosopher had his own personality and interest which required to diverge somewhat from those of his fellows.

Philosophy as lethe, or as maddening life? There is always what we cannot speak about, truth and philosophy hold to this maxim necessarily like everything else. Some things simply cannot be said -- maybe a deeper, more individual conceptual stasis. It is interesting to approach such a condition at a group level, not only an individual one. The 'glue' of BTL will be strong enough to sustain massive differences, and be also a basis for a return to life, or to lethe, as the case may be and as needed, if not immediately then certainly with some time. Life and lethe as... philosophy.


In terms of negativity, no negativity can exist without that positive substance in which it realizes, as negative. Negation is implicit as difference. Life always returns to philosophy, and philosophy always returns to life. Uniformity of agreement is impossible, God is dead, and a while after him Satan also died; turns out that without God we also have no need for the devil. Man is a substance, a stasis, waiting to explode across the heavens.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Conceptual stasis Conceptual stasis Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 1:13 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It turns out that, to speak real philosophy, or rather do real philosophy, inventing a language is an obvious need. Obvious to who? The very few who approach the horizon and jump off the edge.

But, is this really the thing of it?

Philosophers can smell fate, what may be called strength, in others. Perhaps in this stage of feeling eachother out, we have talibanized (as we say in crackass) in our unique innards. Perhaps the whole talibanization is a part of it... But inside, something might whisper "but they are not only lovers of wisdom, also humans!" And stop us a bit... Only to engender the spiral into the same talibanism!

We have called philosophy negative these last few days (part of that very talibanism), and I have deeply enjoyed breathing free air in the company of y'all's destructive limits. I have even set my own. But let us concede that we have been like cocks circling eachother proudly, unwilling to attack, expecting the other to vanish and become ourself. Let us take up Parodites on his challenge years ago, and put up the all-time greatest from the old language. It will only be out of this violent individualistic difference that the greatest concepts will find brethren and link.

Everything else, I guess, is childish fighting over whose what color power ranger.
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PostSubject: Re: Conceptual stasis Conceptual stasis Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 2:07 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, our tastes are diverging as soon as the matter becomes about the world outside. What do we wish to take into consideration? What is valuable, wholesome true to us? A question of self-valuing.

Parodites and I have not diverged from one another - if anything, drawn closer. The same demolishing of instincts that would have made man more sensitive to the cosmic cycles may have been the reason for shedding our hides; increased sensitivity to the outside world, which is a natural progression fro the detachment from the world of the instincts.

I take offense, but none dramatic, at the idea that we are cocking and prancing. I think we're being diligent, and I so modest as to be the one who brings the bad news, and is willing to be beaten for it, even sets himself up for that. That setup was a bit stupid. Astrology is as real as gravity, falls under the same philosophical logic, and gravity is, qua scientific logics, quite as unexplained as astrology.

Perhaps this is a missing key somewhere, that none of the basic phenomena science works with are actually understood. My task has been to change human logics so that they can actually explain things.

Divergence began to occur when we started to discuss politics. But then politics is the very activity of dealing with divergences. Our divergence is a matter of how we step into the world. Not of what we understand to be necessarily true. I even diverge from myself under this political question.

Philosophically, I am willing to claim that nothing of what I have said contradicts anything any of you know to be true. It may contradict a lot of what others expect to be true - or want to be true. Astrology is no less relevant to our philosophy as biology or chemistry. It's part of the puzzle we are solving - have solved, as far as I'm concerned.

I may be very wrong here, and misestimate what it is that is the nature of our diverging. But in that case Pezer, be offensive, and tell me the truth about it. In what philosophical ways do we diverge?

And Capable - of course I would also very much like to hear this from you. What is perceived as philosophical diverging is wholly certain to be fertile earth. In any case you are right that all worldly inclinations, personalities diverge and that such divergencies have been the cause of diverging philosophies. But the thing is, we are not in the same situation as the ancients; we have inescapable an wholly explicit logics that are true under any conditions. None of us can diverge from these.

So politics requires divergence, and in as far as it has come to dominate our recent discourse, it forms a challenge to the coherency of our philosophical perspectives. Within this challenge, I have brought forth astrology, as it is the only way I see fit to conduct politics, and the only way I see fit to challenge any standing power structures. This does not pertain to any limits to current philosophical principle - it all falls well within the borders, but it is indeed a matter of inclination. It is probably my maximal diverging from (the politics in) this forum. So basically then it is my my maximally political stance.

No respectable politics on Earth has ever not celebrated astrology. From Egypt to Persia to Athens to Rome to Paris to Washington DC, all architecture and conquest is always modeled after some astrological axes of progression, and that is why they conquered. And that is, of course, why it is left out of the schoolbooks; it is too hard, too military, pertaining to echelons where schoolboys and general citizens have no business. And, perhaps as importantly, it refutes everything what we've been taught about human equality.



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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Conceptual stasis Conceptual stasis Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 2:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Why be offended? I hold as my own political maximum that animals are as embedded in truth as we are. That astrology, though I understand it little, beautifully adds to this leads me to the maybe simplistic syllogism that my insights, offensive as they may be to a nose unused to seeing animals as brothers, must also complement astrology in the same way. That they complement in the field of political power, which I HATE, but which I need, and form a nonetheless beautiful depth within time for a plan that seems to cook itself.

No, my ultimate political stance is that if I must relinquish my way of proceeding, the destruction must be ultimate. That if my rashness is not compatible with this circle, I will have to find ITS horizon. I may have to find it anyway, as I have decided firmly to set my ethics to writing. What stops me is the question of whether or not that would be economical for the passion that all-consumes me now: the passion of highjacking the universe.
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PostSubject: Re: Conceptual stasis Conceptual stasis Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 2:32 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
In that case there is not even a disagreement, let alone a diverging.

It seems you have already forgotten my stance on animals, that I value and identify with most cats more than with most humans - in fact philosophers are the only humans as proud and pure in their responses as cats.

Here, I do diverge from Capable and, I think, Parodites - but this is a value judgment, not a philosophical analysis. I do not claim that cats have the same independence from their instincts as humans; I only claim that it is good for a human to retrieve his instincts. Not by going back somehow, by undoing nature, but by becoming complete again in the way influences work on us. Hence, indeed, astrology.

Yes, political power is hateful. That is why I will never again engage it without the proper map, sword and shield. This is why I only brought up astrology after we'd been discussing politics: it is a means.



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- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Conceptual stasis Conceptual stasis Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 2:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
And of course, astrology is for a great part built on the rigorous valuing of animal natures.

In course terms, an astrological position is the combination of a god and an animal. "Saturn in Leo", "Jupiter in Taurus".



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- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Conceptual stasis Conceptual stasis Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 5:03 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
No two, three, or however many philosophers we might call to mind can possibly occupy the same "plane of immanence" to speak with Deleuze. In my own language, each philosopher attains to a new discontiguous state of consciousness in which he displaces the erotic center of his real-ego construct, of the perishing and external film of physio-sensory excretions and merely phenomenal cognition quivering helplessly over the abyss of the soul, into a new position within the symbolic order; around the eruption of a new symbol for what Voegelin called the depth of the soul, for the ideal and immortal human self whose face is covered up by endless masks and which might bear numberless interpretations, a whole new universe of concepts forms itself in the mind of the philosopher who beheld it and made the Orphic descent into the underworld of this depth- a conceptual universe that is qualitatively irreducible to any other. The task is not to fuse our immanent planes and concept-spheres with one another in agreement on anything beyond the basic premises which we happily share and even revere with fraternity of spirit, for this inter-fusion would amount to falsely hypostasizing and inflating the mere episteme of the arresting-image-of-thought into a cosmic horizon, but rather to mobilize these distinct concept-spheres towards confronting and absorbing one object and goal from different vantages as within the true hypostatic horizon of immanent-transcendence, and with different modes of attack, as from the sea, earth, and air, in warfare, making sure that every dimension of the battlefield is covered by someone. This object is, to my mind, as is available to us from within the two thousandth year of the Gregorian calendar, a new category of Truth, namely the truth as pure negativity, which in other terms I have referred to as the Platonic intuition that so eluded Heidegger, that there is no Being behind beings, that the Being of beings is unequal to itself, is estranged or isolated from itself in line with the principium non-identitatis- is not itself, is not a being, that A does not satisfy the definition of A, and that Being is therefor left to the fate of dividing itself endlessly into conceptual oppositions from out of the immanent ground of truth as pure negativity- conceptual oppositions or agons in which one term of the binary contrast must always outweigh the other and therefor setup the necessary conditions for what in ourselves we call the daemonic, whereby the excess and latent tension of the given opposition is either returned tragico-daemonically into the primordial ground of Being as what Schelling called the unconscious remainder, therein buried within the long night of unconsciousness, or cognitively reified in a higher order of differentiations and, as a psychodynamic tension, re-cohered and stabilized by the creative architect named Eros, within the horizon of the transcendent- through the fulfilled subjectivity of the eroto-daemonic, in whose order of phenomena we find the possibility for and even prelude of a philosophic heroicism, and no less the salvation, completion, and apotheosis of the physical universe, in a grand rediscovery of man as the measure of all things and the existential burden of the human self's relationship to the creation, whose pregnant moral contours, so laden with meaning, were mythographically traced- though merely traced, in the traditions of Judaeo-Christianity.



___________
ΑΝΤΗΡΟΠΑΡΙΟΝ,
in formis perisseia mutilata in omnia perisarkos mutilatum;
omniformis protosseia immutilatum in protosarkos immutilata.

[ The Ecstasies of Zosimos, Tablet
the First.]

BTHYS TOU ANAHAT KHYA-PANDEMAI.


-- Hermaedion, in: the Liber Endumiaskia.
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PostSubject: Re: Conceptual stasis Conceptual stasis Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 12:05 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Very well said.



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- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Conceptual stasis Conceptual stasis Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 12:11 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
However it is also important to identify shared concepts and premises and articulate a secondary language separate from any of our own philosophies, a simplified and smaller exoteric language to use to indicate shared components and territory standing on the surface of the esoteric languages we use separately.



___________
ΑΝΤΗΡΟΠΑΡΙΟΝ,
in formis perisseia mutilata in omnia perisarkos mutilatum;
omniformis protosseia immutilatum in protosarkos immutilata.

[ The Ecstasies of Zosimos, Tablet
the First.]

BTHYS TOU ANAHAT KHYA-PANDEMAI.


-- Hermaedion, in: the Liber Endumiaskia.
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PostSubject: Re: Conceptual stasis Conceptual stasis Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 4:27 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Parodites wrote:
No two, three, or however many philosophers we might call to mind can possibly occupy the same "plane of immanence" to speak with Deleuze. In my own language, each philosopher attains to a new discontiguous state of consciousness in which he displaces the erotic center of his real-ego construct, of the perishing and external film of physio-sensory excretions and merely phenomenal cognition quivering helplessly over the abyss of the soul, into a new position within the symbolic order; around the eruption of a new symbol for what Voegelin called the depth of the soul, for the ideal and immortal human self whose face is covered up by endless masks and which might bear numberless interpretations, a whole new universe of concepts forms itself in the mind of the philosopher who beheld it and made the Orphic descent into the underworld of this depth- a conceptual universe that is qualitatively irreducible to any other. The task is not to fuse our immanent planes and concept-spheres with one another in agreement on anything beyond the basic premises which we happily share and even revere with fraternity of spirit, for this inter-fusion would amount to falsely hypostasizing and inflating the mere episteme of the arresting-image-of-thought into a cosmic horizon, but rather to mobilize these distinct concept-spheres towards confronting and absorbing one object and goal from different vantages as within the true hypostatic horizon of immanent-transcendence, and with different modes of attack, as from the sea, earth, and air, in warfare, making sure that every dimension of the battlefield is covered by someone. This object is, to my mind, as is available to us from within the two thousandth year of the Gregorian calendar, a new category of Truth, namely the truth as pure negativity, which in other terms I have referred to as the Platonic intuition that so eluded Heidegger, that there is no Being behind beings, that the Being of beings is unequal to itself, is estranged or isolated from itself in line with the principium non-identitatis- is not itself, is not a being, that A does not satisfy the definition of A, and that Being is therefor left to the fate of dividing itself endlessly into conceptual oppositions from out of the immanent ground of truth as pure negativity- conceptual oppositions or agons in which one term of the binary contrast must always outweigh the other and therefor setup the necessary conditions for what in ourselves we call the daemonic, whereby the excess and latent tension of the given opposition is either returned tragico-daemonically into the primordial ground of Being as what Schelling called the unconscious remainder, therein buried within the long night of unconsciousness, or cognitively reified in a higher order of differentiations and, as a psychodynamic tension, re-cohered and stabilized by the creative architect named Eros, within the horizon of the transcendent- through the fulfilled subjectivity of the eroto-daemonic, in whose order of phenomena we find the possibility for and even prelude of a philosophic heroicism, and no less the salvation, completion, and apotheosis of the physical universe, in a grand rediscovery of man as the measure of all things and the existential burden of the human self's relationship to the creation, whose pregnant moral contours, so laden with meaning, were mythographically traced- though merely traced, in the traditions of Judaeo-Christianity.

Yes.


Focused upon the object of truth, a shared effort then, from our different and respective positions, I wonder that this eidos of politics is not the perfect representation of that object-task; an initial representation, one full of brave certainties, foolish ambitions, doubts and... negative truth. Negativity is the content that escapes content, a locale beyond itself, trace removals; it is that which lives in content as content but is not itself a content, therefore say it is a condition. Truth as negativity means only that the only way to properly (philosophically) focus on the content is to do so through the lens of the remainder, of that "being of being" as escapes toward the edges and is see to dissolve there.

Aims are still mostly shareable here because we advertise ourselves, as I mentioned elsewhere, this is simply the easiest way to arrange a shared aim. Like animals in the wild, full of buffoon and bluster, most of all for themselves, able to arrange a circumstance through crudely manipulating image-level technics which are known to be effective at mobilizing conscious resources. A magic trick, then, a slight of hand.

Philosophy cannot follow that path and continue to be... philosophy. It will, assuming it can't abandon the superficial, salient ethos previously cultivated in the heart of that youth in which the philosophically-grasping self first beheld itself, become something like a ghost, perhaps a scholar and hyperspecialist - a "politician", master of manipulation, secure in its own "certainties" no matter if these require science or superstition of any or every possible flavor and scope to embed in that certitude an exacting self-vengeance of "justice". Against what, more specifically, does the self take that vengeance? Against philosophy, of course. We are now at the point historically where it becomes possible to understand politics as this precise vengeance against the philosophical.

Means creating ends but still in service to those ends created, rather than in service to truth. But to turn this political madness around through its own deceptions and need and hope to make of it as introductory object of a shared truth, that is something I could devote a good deal of time and writing to. It isn't yet clear if politics has assumed this crucifix-pose by some deeper necessary logic at work in the budding philosophical collective or if it is mere happenstance and a product simply of local variances and "chance"; such questions (there are many that spring to mind almost immediately simply by virtue of making this present situation properly questionable) would provide plenty of fodder for a nice philosophical investigation.

I'm working on other things at the moment, but might find some time for this. In any case my position on politics is unchanged, but the importance of the comments on the possible task set before different philosophers is not at all lost on me. I suppose that shareable object might find representation in any number of possible ideas; a kind of meta-moral philosophical methodology for a community of real philosophers.


To say a quick word then on politics if this is to be a form we must deal with in terms of the budding truth object: what is politics but the impossibility of every other goal, the impossibility of life itself?-- but not an impossibility in actuality as would be the case of philosophy, instead one of impossibility even in potentia; the problem sinks even further as cannot limit itself before even the philosophical limit of actuality, which by comparison is a quite higher threshold. The two corresponding series of ideations possible to either problematic, that of the qualitatively different kinds of impossibilities of philosophy or "politics", not even discounting here politics in its empty form as merely pathological (thus quite "world-enabling") lack of philosophy, namely just one such void as lives out its mortifying lifespan on account of the "self-valuing" of that need, in the terms of the existential-embedding causa sui operating tectonically in the symbolic structure of these, must in this way hopelessly diverge. Not in those agreed-upon premises and basics, not even in the shared fraternity and passion, but simply in the very reality touched upon in either case.

Everyone has their interest, specialty, their "power" by virtue of which particular soul-gravity philosophy can easily find itself swallowed up. We must be an absolute question to ourselves, where absolutely nothing is given or taken for granted-- only this leads inward to the path of truth.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Conceptual stasis Conceptual stasis Icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2015 4:50 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Aye. We will do it like any other politician: working backwards from the proposals as they arrive. Who chooses to stay back has the prerrogative of advising without revealing any self inspection, except the high jacking of the universe, I imagine, will leave few indifferent this way.

Politics for us will act as a healing mechanism for pessimism, at best, as you say, a spacial health centre for humans in general and philosophers above all. To me, the big point to agree on is what constitutes health. What's so fun about it is that it's like shroedingger's box: ex post facto concecuence of choice. I think we can get it if we keep fighting it out like this, healthiest solution mechanism among men. We already have good reason to suspect in eachother a great will to health.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:43 pm

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PostSubject: Civility Civility Icon_minitimeSat Oct 10, 2015 6:13 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The Japanese were politically superior to the Greek because they were loyal to the clan above family, and loyalty for the land, the gods, was a given, a passive unbreakable loyalty.

The only worship that could follow master worship was the sublime godless worship of buhddism. Death was preferable, but buhddism was acceptable... Beauty most when honor bound, beauty unbound godless.














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PostSubject: "Judgment" = "value" , what say you? "Judgment" = "value" , what say you? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 06, 2015 4:41 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Wittgenstein, from On Certainty: (lost the italics in the copy/paste, unfortunately)..


115. If you tried to doubt everything you would not get as far as doubting anything. The game of doubting itself presupposes certainty.
116. Instead of "I know...", couldn't Moore have said: "It stands fast for me that..."? And further: "It stands fast for me and many others..."
117. Why is it not possible for me to doubt that I have never been on the moon? And how could I try to doubt it?
First and foremost, the supposition that perhaps I have been there would strike me as idle. Nothing would follow from it, nothing be explained by it. It would not tie in with anything in my life.
When I say "Nothing speaks for, everything against it," this presupposes a principle of speaking for and against. That is, I must be able to say what would speak for it.
118. Now would it be correct to say: So far no one has opened my skull in order to see whether there is a brain inside; but everything speaks for, and nothing against, its being what they would find there?
119. But can it also be said: Everything speaks for, and nothing against the table's still being there when no one sees it? For what does speak of it?
120. But if anyone were to doubt it, how would his doubt come out in practice? And couldn't we peacefully leave him to doubt it, since it makes no difference at all?
121. Can one say: "Where there is no doubt there is no knowledge either"?
122. Doesn't one need grounds for doubt?
123. Wherever I look, I find no ground for doubting that...
124. I want to say: We use judgments as principles of judgment.
125. If a blind man were to ask me "Have you got two hands?" I should not make sure by looking. If I were to have any doubt of it, then I don't know why I should trust my eyes. For why shouldn't I test my eyes by looking to find out whether I see my two hands? What is to be tested by what? (Who decides what stands fast?)
And what does it mean to say that such and such stands fast?
126. I am not more certain of the meaning of my words that I am of certain judgments. Can I doubt that this colour is called "blue"?
(My) doubts form a system.
127. For how do I know that someone is in doubt? How do I know that he uses the words "I doubt it" as I do?
128. From a child up I learnt to judge like this. This is judging.
129. This is how I learned to judge; this I got to know as judgment.
130. But isn't it experience that teaches us to judge like this, that is to say, that it is correct to judge like this? But how does experience teach us, then? We may derive it from experience, but experience does not direct us to derive anything from experience. If it is the ground for our judging like this, and not just the cause, still we do not have a ground for seeing this in turn as a ground.
131. No, experience is not the ground for our game of judging. Nor is its outstanding success.
132. Men have judged that a king can make rain; we say this contradicts all experience. Today they judge that aeroplanes and the radio etc. are means for the closer contact of peoples and the spread of culture.
133. Under ordinary circumstances I do not satisfy myself that I have two hands by seeing how it looks. Why not? Has experience shown it to be unnecessary? Or (again): Have we in some way learnt a universal law of induction, and do we trust it here too? - But why should we have learnt one universal law first, and not the special one straight away?
134. After putting a book in a drawer, I assume it is there, unless... "Experience always proves me right. There is no well attested case of a book's (simply) disappearing." It has often happened that a book has never turned up again, although we thought we knew for certain where it was. - But experience does really teach that a book, say, does not vanish away. (E.g. gradually evaporates.) But is it this experience with books etc. that leads us to assume that such a book has not vanished away? Well, suppose we were to find that under particular novel circumstances books did vanish away. - Shouldn't we alter our assumption? Can one give the lie to the effect of experience on our system of assumption?
135. But do we not simply follow the principle that what has always happened will happen again (or something like it)? What does it mean to follow this principle? Do we really introduce it into our reasoning? Or is it merely the natural law which our inferring apparently follows? This latter it may be. It is not an item in our considerations.
136. When Moore says he knows such and such, he is really enumerating a lot of empirical propositions which we affirm without special testing; propositions, that is, which have a peculiar logical role in the system of our empirical propositions.
137. Even if the most trustworthy of men assures me that he knows things are thus and so, this by itself cannot satisfy me that he does know. Only that he believes he knows. That is why Moore's assurance that he knows... does not interest us. The propositions, however, which Moore retails as examples of such known truths are indeed interesting. Not because anyone knows their truth, or believes he knows them, but because they all have a similar role in the system of our empirical judgments.
138. We don't, for example, arrive at any of them as a result of investigation.
There are e.g. historical investigations and investigations into the shape and also the age of the earth, but not into whether the earth has existed during the last hundred years. Of course many of us have information about this period from our parents and grandparents; but maynt' they be wrong? - "Nonsense!" one will say. "How should all these people be wrong?" - But is that an argument? Is it not simply the rejection of an idea? And perhaps the determination of a concept? For if I speak of a possible mistake here, this changes the role of "mistake" and "truth" in our lives.
139. Not only rules, but also examples are needed for establishing a practice. Our rules leave loop-holes open, and the practice has to speak for itself.
140. We do not learn the practice of making empirical judgments by learning rules: we are taught judgments and their connexion with other judgments. A totality of judgments is made plausible to us.
141. When we first begin to believe anything, what we believe is not a single proposition, it is a whole system of propositions. (Light dawns gradually over the whole.)
142. It is not single axioms that strike me as obvious, it is a system in which consequences and premises give one another mutual support.
143. I am told, for example, that someone climbed this mountain many years ago. Do I always enquire into the reliability of the teller of this story, and whether the mountain did exist years ago? A child learns there are reliable and unreliable informants much later than it learns facts which are told it. It doesn't learn at all that that mountain has existed for a long time: that is, the question whether it is so doesn't arise at all. It swallows this consequence down, so to speak, together with what it learns.
144. The child learns to believe a host of things. I.e. it learns to act according to these beliefs. Bit by bit there forms a system of what is believed, and in that system some things stand unshakeably fast and some are more or less liable to shift. What stands fast does so, not because it is intrinsically obvious or convincing; it is rather held fast by what lies around it.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: "Judgment" = "value" , what say you? "Judgment" = "value" , what say you? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 06, 2015 8:08 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
To be more clear, I'm interested in the idea that how he uses the concept of judgments and beliefs which link together into self-supporting systems, producing justification and use capacity, is similar to how we think of values in VO as constructing the undercurrents of the words and ideas we have.

Fixed you said along the lines that when you peel back language and look underneath it, we always see values-- and we only see values. (My paraphrase). Wittgenstein says we use judgments as principles of judgments, or at least that is what he "wants to say". By the way, this was by far the most coherent of his thought that I could find, in these late notes of his he wrote shortly before he died, compiled into "On Certainty". At the very end it seems that he really did break finally into real work.

And I see that work as very much aligned to how VO would understand language as flowing from values (judgments) and how self-referential systems of relations cohere typified response-patterns to given input parameters and not necessarily geared to "what is really there" (the object behind the word, or concept), which reminds me a little of the approach to language in Parodites' philosophy. Daemonic, self-irreconcilable, building toward itself, frenzied and struggling for a philosophical clarity.

The requirement to have "grounds for doubt" is an obvious one of course, I noticed a lot of what he says is so obvious as to be almost banal. There must have been some real idiots back then whom he thought constituted his audience, for him to spell out shit like that as if talking to a 10-year old.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: "Judgment" = "value" , what say you? "Judgment" = "value" , what say you? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 06, 2015 9:10 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It is a form of human valuing, one that relates to conceptuality. He notices that words are forms of judgment, but not yet what judgments are rooted in. As I say in the video, he was no Nietzsche, he was not born with the required honesty, but he was noble and strong enough to want it.

Note that Nietzsche makes it explicit that willing to power is the act of interpreting. "power" does not mean domination, but the power to exert what one is, to selfvalue - he called it a weak and bloodless metaphor for - well for being. His understanding was very subtle, more so than his style suggests.



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PostSubject: Re: "Judgment" = "value" , what say you? "Judgment" = "value" , what say you? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 06, 2015 9:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
To be more clear, I'm interested in the idea that how he uses the concept of judgments and beliefs which link together into self-supporting systems, producing justification and use capacity, is similar to how we think of values in VO as constructing the undercurrents of the words and ideas we have.

Fixed you said along the lines that when you peel back language and look underneath it, we always see values-- and we only see values. (My paraphrase). Wittgenstein says we use judgments as principles of judgments, or at least that is what he "wants to say". By the way, this was by far the most coherent of his thought that I could find, in these late notes of his he wrote shortly before he died, compiled into "On Certainty". At the very end it seems that he really did break finally into real work.

And I see that work as very much aligned to how VO would understand language as flowing from values (judgments) and how self-referential systems of relations cohere typified response-patterns to given input parameters and not necessarily geared to "what is really there" (the object behind the word, or concept), which reminds me a little of the approach to language in Parodites' philosophy. Daemonic, self-irreconcilable, building toward itself, frenzied and struggling for a philosophical clarity.

The requirement to have "grounds for doubt" is an obvious one of course, I noticed a lot of what he says is so obvious as to be almost banal. There must have been some real idiots back then whom he thought constituted his audience, for him to spell out shit like that as if talking to a 10-year old.

Ha, well there still are.

When he saw what was wrong with his Tractatus he was bound to fall back on some hard ground, inevitably recognizing himself in the equation.

I say judgment is still too neutral, false - Valuing includes the actual stuff of the judgment; the ontos. We know it as 'passion'. Our 'hearts'. We do not 'judge' as much as we 'are judged' by our valuing - simply give what we are as interpretation of what we encounter. That life derives from necessities including somehow its potential and 'error' and 'incompleteness' are required; thus a word like love is more proper than judgment - but 'value' covers the 'economy' of it all, the mutuality, by far the best.

As I said in my fallen Tower post, VO reads beteeen the lines; it is meant to handle more nuance than language was ever used to handling.
Ultimately everything is in nuance.



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- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: "Judgment" = "value" , what say you? "Judgment" = "value" , what say you? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 06, 2015 9:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
W didn't discount everything that was beyond the grasp of "language" (as he somewhat rigidly understood it) but claimed we can't talk about it, it is "there" but he wanted to explore how we know it is there if it is not adequate to the languages we have at our disposal.

I like this final writing of his very much, he is tracing close to the earth, almost cutting into it. The sharpness is like a desperation and a hunger, he wants the answer. As I said to someone else today, answers are only questions we don't yet have the courage to ask. If W had the elaborated concept of value / self-value as well as the principle of excess and negativity I think his soul would have been that much lighter.

"We don't know that we have two hands by virtue of language", therefore "how can we talk about how we know that we have two hands?" is essential his concern -- in other words he wanted a psychology and the principles for one. Again, self-valuing and/or the daemonic provide this for us, sadly he couldn't arrive at them and got stuck in the polarized daemonic opposition "in and out" or subject and object. Thus viewing language as essentially problematic and also probably why he idealized solutions to philosophical problems as a total and complete vanishing of the problem, it's absolute disappearance rather than any kind of created-constructed answer, in terms of a subjectivity or as "system building".



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: "Judgment" = "value" , what say you? "Judgment" = "value" , what say you? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 06, 2015 2:28 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
W didn't discount everything that was beyond the grasp of "language" (as he somewhat rigidly understood it) but claimed we can't talk about it, it is "there" but he wanted to explore how we know it is there if it is not adequate to the languages we have at our disposal.

Exactly, he oriented on language. He tried to reason the thing from within language. He approaches this diligently, by pushing Kant back, revealing the 'thing as such' to be a typically poetic conception, and setting the standard of positive knowledge theory.

"The world is the totality of facts, not of things."

As a consequence, the bull like determined nobleman genius reasoned his subject all the way to its own perfect thing-hood. His conception of language is a conception of a would-be self-valuing, save for assumptions like these:

Where this is true:
Quote :
5.47
It is clear that everything which can be said
beforehand about the form of all propositions at
all can be said on one occasion.

This is not:
Quote :
6.123
It is clear that the laws of logic cannot themselves
obey further logical laws.

As logic is indeed not a plane, but an activity, a representation, the signs of which become crystallized in things like "+" and "=", but on a deeper level this is now how realities compare to each other. That happens through self-valuing 'warring'. Language is like the careless general that sends his legions into death, or sometimes does something useful with his resources. These legions are 'the will', which finally becomes an aspect of self-valuing once sufficient power has been permanently attained in the philosopher of the future. Nietzsche wisely did not account for this possibility beyond clarifying it in his metaphors, the superman, the eternal return.

Will to power was always a test case. Who would master it, control it, ride it to the real horizon? Riders on the Storm, indeed.

Sorry for getting off the point so far. I am looking for a speocific passage in the Tractatus where he basically says something like vo can not exist. Can't see to find it though. Its about the notion that is proven true by its mere existence. Somehow that is the case for vo. It's a nice mindbender to ride that link.

Quote :
I like this final writing of his very much, he is tracing close to the earth, almost cutting into it. The sharpness is like a desperation and a hunger, he wants the answer. As I said to someone else today, answers are only questions we don't yet have the courage to ask. If W had the elaborated concept of value / self-value as well as the principle of excess and negativity I think his soul would have been that much lighter.

No doubt, that is actually a touching image. Wind in the hair, so to speak. I too am very fond of him. As everyone, as he simply was an utterly good man in all the senses, 'slave' and 'master'. As a man he was surely a high point. His philosophy can be seen as the humility of man who knows he has to go down now. The first work as a house on the hill, a perfecthouse, that could never withstand the perfect storm.... but that signifies the noble will of man to continue building in the face of the wrathful flux.
In what he identifies as impossible, he identifies 'magical philosophy', which is what Nietzsche really is; the direct address of the world by the word by addressing it as the word. Will as interpretation. He Who Speaks. The Magus that stands at the outset of Ages, to evoke Crowley.

To use a Heideggerian twist, Wittgenstein speaks about existence, but ultimately philosophy must speak existence, at the same time. It has to absorb the force in the word. I refer to a typical Parodites sentence, or one by Nietzsche; such sentences justify themselves even unto themselves. They have to speak into man, breathe life into him. Of course we all aspire to this and not in vain, but Parodites is the most consistent in this. This is also how I read his philosophy; it is wholly self-justified, as Pezer says it does not seek to justify itself, it is made out of something even beyond justification, therefore it touches the tragic so well.

Quote :
"We don't know that we have two hands by virtue of language", therefore "how can we talk about how we know that we have two hands?" is essential his concern -- in other words he wanted a psychology and the principles for one. Again, self-valuing and/or the daemonic provide this for us, sadly he couldn't arrive at them and got stuck in the polarized daemonic opposition "in and out" or subject and object. Thus viewing language as essentially problematic and also probably why he idealized solutions to philosophical problems as a total and complete vanishing of the problem, it's absolute disappearance rather than any kind of created-constructed answer, in terms of a subjectivity or as "system building".

He completed the puzzle and then saw that the picture on the box wasn't the same as the picture he had completed. He then realized that the picture on the box did not exist. The is thus the ultimate "Master of Philosophy" - he arrived at the knowledge that philosophy-as-such does not prescribe the world-as-such, but rather itself.
From thereon to find a road to the world is almost impossible.



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PostSubject: Re: "Judgment" = "value" , what say you? "Judgment" = "value" , what say you? Icon_minitimeMon Nov 09, 2015 3:57 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Gree that the difference between N and W iis what matters here. N went into the abyss, let's get back to that later. W did no, W decided, as the true aristocrat (in the N sense of aristocrat that scoffs at vons and vans and dels) he was, that all ultimately could be justified and universalized by HIS present. His present joy. This is the epitome of the evolutionary/tectonic point that is aristocracy, but not of philosophy, which can concieve evolution and tectonics, the tiniest of things first and everything thence. As usual, the Greeks scratched ground here first with the atom. Time and space, Einstein gave us almost the thing. QM was like God keeping Moses from entering Israel. Einstein still held out for universality, doubted God. Ye, faith of the jewish caliber is the same as rigid discipline of the philosophical caliber: first I am right, then I exert the last ounce of my morality for the jew, Honesty for the philosopher.

Self-valuing logic has the beauty that it only appears to infringe on the philosopher's honesty from a distance, like The Enemy for the jew's morality, but up close it allows all, prescribes nothing, and potentiates. Like The Enemy, I suppose, lol, an unexplored path for jewish faith? Je niaise.

Judgement is always valuing, but so is the study of the genealogy of all forms of judgement, which is will to power, which is the High value, the mother value. I will to power, therefore I value, therefore I will to power... Sawelios, snake?

In any case, only a logic such as self valuing logic can allow something as free as tectonics to cohere with the historicity of Wittgenstein's universality and not cause headache inducing confusion.

Ditto daemonic philosophy, which is the historicity of thought itself itself.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:44 pm

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PostSubject: Siege Siege Icon_minitimeThu Nov 05, 2015 6:39 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ive managed to man up and put something in the tower. If its any good Ill find out next month when I dare to read it again. Or next year. Or until I get a call of distress.

In any case the Tower could not withstand its vacuum anylonger, the meaning of the name was bound to collapse. It is not like there isn't any justice in claiming a peak.

What I like about my own doubts about it now is that it produces a siege state, where the right of the post to be in the tower is in question. That is why I report from the field of Battle, where the doubting Arjuna was made to face his horizon.

If however it were to be fortified by powers that sustain it and draw from it, then it shall rightfully be seen as the rightful seeing. Across all those future fields the glance catches itself with a fish in its beak. We shall not be fruitless.



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PostSubject: Re: Siege Siege Icon_minitimeThu Nov 05, 2015 11:02 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Oh No! Fire and rocks come down.

Fixed Cross wrote:
Value ontology is a philosophy that reads between the lines.


Let me will twist your gaze a bit to the right angle by formalizing a much required philosophical axiom:

Being is a word.

That is to say it might only be that. Unless we mean it right, Shoot straight. Philosophy crosses the long distance between word and reality. Or it has tried. By analogy, I would be claiming that value ontology is an arrow that hit the bulls eye. And this means there might be others that hit it - let's say Nietzsche was the first to hit the board, to prove it exists. In that case, VO might be just one ring closer to the center. But this is only a metaphor. As is "everything".

From hereon, we shall thus discuss “being” thinking of it as “the word “being”” . *

Into the words then. To value means to hold something distinct from another. “Being” = “Self-valuing” or extended “valuing registration (impacting physis) in terms of self” whereby "self" refers to the continuous (so as to be registered as existence, 'affect' if you will) form of the valuing, not to anything besides valuing, which if it is destined to be more than dissolution, entropy, amounts in self-valuing.

“self-valuing” is thus indirect, as is “being”.

Acting is direct, Directness is a form of being, caused by a dense configuration of passive being that begins to be changed by the fact that its internal logics contraict the others, when they are in the same place at the same time. This is when the will to power arises; when self-valuing becomes active, an valuing becomes a matter of overcoming resistance and thereby inadvertently self-overcoming. Unless one is literally made out of gold, which can not be changed, and is thus perfectly self-valuing. Gold acts on its own terms; that is why the ancients called it a noble metal.

Some actions lead to death. An action also “self-values” but it has a very limited lifespan. An organic being is a collection of actions and results on the capacity to sustain similar actions.

Some beings develop a greater range of successful actions, others die and whither off because their range wasn’t sufficient to experiment. Experiment is the only way to acquire power. When one is given great influence but no experience, what some would call power quickly turns against and very likely annihilates its wielder. This philosophy is born out of endurance, out of rugged naked experience with the wild. It is both psychedelic an analytics. It is life, the circle, the imperfect always improving excellence of being that Homer sings about and that shall be exalted even above Homers imagination, to Olympian laughter among humans being as common as birds among a song.

To be clear: objects or characters or natures or individuals are no longer given. They are there only in as far as they self-value.

For instance: a tree still falls if there is no one around and it produces turbulence in the air and ground but it does not produce 'sound'. That is a phenomenon that derives from our eardrums, i.e. the thing between the phenomenon and 'that which gives' - the 'giver' - and I mean of meaning, of character, objectivity, nature, individuation; being-as-such. 'Sound as such' namely does not exist; there must be 'a sound' or 'several sounds' for 'sound' to exist. That means that it must becomes something within something else; a human experience. Therein can it self-value; i.e. respond to its environment in such a way as to continue to exist. That is not to say 'to itself'. But: being in as far as it is to other beings and back to itself, the dharma, which causes 'karma' or simply determines the level of our involvement in our own being. Most lives, I fear, most civilized lives at least, are lived by others than the entity that might emerge if the mind was dead-seat on being, and no longer allowing for it to be pulled into a Frankensteinian quasi existence by unknown hyperbolic assumptions.

What we need is visceral pathos, passion of the heart to direct the brains great madness, the violent ventures of which a man is inadvertently capable and often inclined, which must ultimately result in mastery of the Earthll that is to say, to behave in such a way that makes it possible to ay that the Earth self-values. Right now, man is a contradiction to that. A great one, requiring a great solution. Man is not capable of this in general, he needs his excessive warriors or that. These have now taken up the sword. Sword? what a I saying -- the pen. Far more dangerous.


*(The word refers to a complex arrangement of things, namely everything. It does not, thusly, appear to do its object of reference any justice. It does not even show how precisely it must, as a word, contain itself within the vast, nay infinite expanse of its reference.

But there never was a way to particularize the term being so as to represent, rather than to refer. Or so it seemed: in this very yearning for such a way was the way itself. The thinking mind needed required a 'self' (this is what philosophy is, the search for the self of thought), but it was looking in all the wrong places. It was looking at everything besides the ends to its passion. It could not acknowledge that all is selective passion, valuing, because that seems not noble enough. And - it wasn't. Man could not believe this, because he was not noble enough. He did not deserve to believe it.)

It was worth a shot. The first line is excellent.

My call is still valid, the Towers call that is - I for me just need to work on a deeper and better honed piece.



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PostSubject: Re: Siege Siege Icon_minitimeSat Nov 07, 2015 3:24 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I don't know, but my reaction, after seconds of stunned appreciation, is "that is motherfucking right. Brace y'all selves."

This thing is trv. I don't think it needs polishing. That said, a polished version of it may be more fit for the tower, so that it may appropriately self-value within it. What is visceral has no home.
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PostSubject: Re: Siege Siege Icon_minitimeWed Nov 11, 2015 6:20 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thanks.
I missed this post as I avoided looking at the piece
Just got my courage up, corrected it, and Ill put it back to the Tower.

Sowilo!









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PostSubject: Esoteric Philosophical Politics Esoteric Philosophical Politics Icon_minitimeSat Dec 19, 2015 2:02 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ive been having this idea ever since I read a passage in Nietzsches notebooks, that beautifully spoke of danger in the streets and danger in the heart as conditions for creating the higher type. The passage was so viscerally evocative to me at the time of quintessentilaly American situations that it occurred to me even that he might have meant to implicitly refer to that country, which he mentions so infrequently that I find it a bit 'suspect'. He may have had an aim not mentioning it. He may have been a much more esoteric political philosopher than for example Leo Strauss gives him credit for.

The subject naturally came up as I started this philosophy walk in front of a Chinese Pentecoastal church. It subsequently progressed to trace a giant arc across many of my sociologocal ideas, and ultimately tied in with the greatest political goal I have ever formuled; to value-economocally recolonize Africa to establish a higher culture. Pezer expressed strong liking of a post I had made earlier in this topic, I wonder if you could located it, Pezer, that would be great. I have as with so many inspired posts no idea when and where I posted it.

I imvited Sauwelios to look at these videos in order to inform you that I am considering making this "black supremacy" my exoteric politics. As you see I am quite convinced of the arguments I give, but I am equally aware of very powerful objections, some of which I make explicit in the second video. But the point is now that to express and stimulate.sich politics would serve us very well politically. Besides it will be a very funny way to screw with the banal racists on ILP and elsewhere, who have already made it impossible to exoterically cultivate the idea of a European higher type, as they would most certainly not be the road that leads to it.

Bottom line, it would be the conductors of such a scheme that are de facto the highest political-philosophical type. But esotericism here would serve me beautifully. I reauest that you subtly scheme along, objecting where you must, allowing where you can, and adding fuel to the fire where (and if) you will. The esoteric angle is that a Nietzschean recolonizing of Africa will not go without a sweeping consent among the black race. Besides this, it would be such a beautiful movement of will, like the Israelites reclaiming their homeland but on a much vaster scale, and with a universal human significance.

Naturally, the Chinese, who are currently making recolonization efforts, must be treated, very carefully, as allies.

Capable, the second video is my overture to Existential Capitalism.
https://youtu.be/Q5atOSug34Q
https://youtu.be/qSHRWXZ2FqU




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PostSubject: Re: Esoteric Philosophical Politics Esoteric Philosophical Politics Icon_minitimeSat Dec 19, 2015 6:36 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I've been giving this much thought. Esoteric thought. Nietzschean thought.

Sawelios is right, though he didn't stress the point: the higher type CANNOT be a race, at least not as it is known, no race but the hyperborean race, and even that is much too... high for the next steps.

The return to Africa belongs to ALL of the first world, capitalism does not self-value as hip hop, hip hop commands capital. And everybody loves hip hop.

And yet, it's not even hip hop. There is a great challenge in Africa in how not to value it: a charity case, a wild pig hunt, the bathroom of the world. Also, it cannot take on all its satanic hues, the first world is not ready for that. It is not even ready to affirmatively value itself as this. We, the third world, need to open our loving arms, and from the ambrace shall emerge Africa.

So, Africa needs to be politiziced especially beyond race, and avoiding all liberal attempts at this such as pity or something. Africa the great, home of the future master race. A roar.

White people cannot feel left out or forboding, or too comfortable. They need to feel a challenge, that they have the right to stake a claim there and the honor bound duty to earn it. All of its capitalist power, deprived of its weaknesses, deprived of its fascisms and communisms and liberalisms and self-deciets. All that is self affirmingly humanm about capitalism: says Africa "come to me, bring me water, I will give fruit beyond your dreams, worthy of the next great thing in human. All of your modern efforts have been leading up to THIS."

Black people are just slightly more blessed, cause they were there up until a shorter time ago. But our descent into hell gave us the tools to earn our way back to it. The prodigal son, but this prodigal son is NOT coming back broke and broken.
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PostSubject: Re: Esoteric Philosophical Politics Esoteric Philosophical Politics Icon_minitimeSat Dec 19, 2015 6:58 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The reason Nietzsche omitted America so conspicuosly was allways obvious to me. It was still to young, undeserving of his attention, an overcoming that hadn't happened yet. It had to develop. This is our chance, our only hope is to move beyond Nietzsce's Europe for our dancing star. A new Persia, born here with the hippies but global in destiny.
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PostSubject: Re: Esoteric Philosophical Politics Esoteric Philosophical Politics Icon_minitimeSat Dec 19, 2015 7:05 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
(And the hippies were born from the hipsters, the jazzmen, the drunks. Our generation's innovation is that it aspires to legality, as much a son of the lawyers and ad-men, of mainstream innovators, as hippies.)
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PostSubject: Re: Esoteric Philosophical Politics Esoteric Philosophical Politics Icon_minitimeMon Dec 21, 2015 9:02 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Ive been having this idea ever since I read a passage in Nietzsches notebooks, that beautifully spoke of danger in the streets and danger in the heart as conditions for creating the higher type. The passage was so viscerally evocative to me at the time of quintessentilaly American situations that it occurred to me even that he might have meant to implicitly refer to that country, which he mentions so infrequently that I find it a bit 'suspect'. He may have had an aim not mentioning it. He may have been a much more esoteric political philosopher than for example Leo Strauss gives him credit for.

The subject naturally came up as I started this philosophy walk in front of a Chinese Pentecoastal church. It subsequently progressed to trace a giant arc across many of my sociologocal ideas, and ultimately tied in with the greatest political goal I have ever formuled; to value-economocally recolonize Africa to establish a higher culture. Pezer expressed strong liking of a post I had made earlier in this topic, I wonder if you could located it, Pezer, that would be great. I have as with so many inspired posts no idea when and where I posted it.

I imvited Sauwelios to look at these videos in order to inform you that I am considering making this "black supremacy" my exoteric politics. As you see I am quite convinced of the arguments I give, but I am equally aware of very powerful objections, some of which I make explicit in the second video. But the point is now that to express and stimulate.sich politics would serve us very well politically. Besides it will be a very funny way to screw with the banal racists on ILP and elsewhere, who have already made it impossible to exoterically cultivate the idea of a European higher type, as they would most certainly not be the road that leads to it.

Bottom line, it would be the conductors of such a scheme that are de facto the highest political-philosophical type. But esotericism here would serve me beautifully. I reauest that you subtly scheme along, objecting where you must, allowing where you can, and adding fuel to the fire where (and if) you will. The esoteric angle is that a Nietzschean recolonizing of Africa will not go without a sweeping consent among the black race. Besides this, it would be such a beautiful movement of will, like the Israelites reclaiming their homeland but on a much vaster scale, and with a universal human significance.

Naturally, the Chinese, who are currently making recolonization efforts, must be treated, very carefully, as allies.

I'm not sure if you or Pezer is more right about Nietzsche's stance towards America. In any case, my objections to your idea are solely "external", not at all "internal". Let me explain. If you're going to try and establish a higher culture without a cataclysm--that is, if you're gonna do it by design instead of re-enthroning, and then leaving it up to, chance--, I think your idea may well be the most viable. However, just as I've embraced VO but keep making explicit references to the doctrine of the will to power, so I will also keep championing the teaching of the recurrence. Thus when Straus writes, in the context of Nietzsche, that "[t]he possibility of surpassing and overcoming all previous human types reveals itself to the present, less because the present is superior to all past ages than because it is the moment of the greatest danger and chiefly for this reason of the greatest hope", I interpret this to mean that the highest human type hitherto would be the type that, confronted with the danger of "limitless vistas for progress in the future" (Mahdi, on Machiavelli)--i.e., stagnation in the single human ideal, "the last man"--, commands and legislates the recurrence of "all past ages".

"The philosopher, as distinguished from the scholar or scientist, is the complementary man in whom not only man but the rest of existence is justified (cf. aph. 207); he is the peak which does not permit and still less demand to be overcome. [...]
Instead of explaining why it is necessary to affirm the eternal return, Nietzsche indicates that the highest achievement, as all earlier high achievements, is in the last analysis not the work of reason but of nature [...]. There is an order of rank of the natures; at the summit of the hierarchy is the complementary man. His supremacy is shown by the fact that he solves the highest, the most difficult problem. As we have observed, for Nietzsche nature has become a problem and yet he cannot do without nature. Nature, we may say, has become a problem owing to the fact that man is conquering nature and there are no assignable limits to that conquest. [...] Nature, the eternity of nature, owes its being to a postulation, to an act of the will to power on the part of the highest nature." (Strauss, same book, different chapter.)








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PostSubject: Capitalism Capitalism Icon_minitimeTue Dec 29, 2015 2:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
How to separate consumerism from capitalism? The psychological (un)conscious reality produces consumerism, but capitalism cannot be reduced to consumption-addiction alone and could exist without it. Or is it only a matter of the real quality of products that are consumed?

I know people who do their shopping at Walmart, they don't know they are contributing to the destruction of small (not super-massive multinational corporations) businesses and to the mass consumerism of society, a race to the bottom of quality and wages. They either don't know or don't care.

Capitalism is the materialization of human potential and human idiocy on a collective scale. Since there's no alternative to people having potential or to people being flawed, it is likely that capitalism will continue indefinitely. Money can recycle into new units to erase or transfer debts, or whole infrastructures could collapse or be swallowed by war, but at the end of the day people still have potential, and still have flaws.

Can a focus on resisting blind consumerism do enough to correct imbalances in capitalism? Obviously "blind consumerism" is a value-standard that naturally separates the high from the low.





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PostSubject: Cardboard Cardboard Icon_minitimeTue Dec 29, 2015 2:42 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This VR is like looking through someone else's eyes. Really, that is what it feels like, being in another body or being in a dream. I think a major significance of this technology is how it simulates a dream-experience.

What are the philosophical implications of cardboard? Go try it out and then let me know.

Interestingly I also heard there's a Vice News app for it, where you can get right inside the scenes and events being reported on. Apparently this makes one feel as if they were "right there" and is apparently "much better than reading about history in books".

I don't feel I need to even respond to such claims. But we should include these new technologies into our most serious philosophical analyses. If not fear of technology, love of technology, or "balanced use" of technology then what can be the philosopher's method of approach? Maybe we simply need to wait for the eventual normalization of these things, along with everyone else, e.g. smart phones. Maybe only programmers can command real power over novel devices.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:46 pm

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PostSubject: Things I've learned from investigating political economy Things I've learned from investigating political economy Icon_minitimeWed Jan 13, 2016 2:04 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
1) For one thing, there is no such thing as "Marxism", "socialism" or even "liberalism", that these are thought of as independent systems or political-economic positions is incorrect. These are only shades of capitalism--- these are partially-marginal, quasi-rebellious aspects of capitalism that function to help mediate capitalism's internally antagonistic relations. The simple reason I know this is because no Marxist, socialist, communist, liberalist or whatever kind of society could ever truly exist; every society is by default a capitalist society. Fantasies about alternate forms of politics or socioeconomics are just that, fantasies. So when people like Marx or Zizek or whoever else pretend as if we are working for a world that overcomes capital relations that is just either stupid (not thought through) or deceitful. Revolutionaries aren't working for a post-capitalist, purely emancipatory-egalitarian world, they are working for capitalism. They are sublimating various psychological-political impulses in ways that allow capital relations space and time to adjust their forms, like how a living organism evolves.

2) There is no such thing as "capitalism", there are only power- and psyche-relations that can be called capital-based. The idea of capitalism as a single practical system or paradigm obscures the fact that everything is "capital-ist". There are precious few things that are not inherently driven by relations that might be called capitalizing at heart-- philosophy and art are two things that have the potential to be non-capitalist, namely the pure seeking for truth as such, and for self-realization as such within a psychic non-pathological, truth-process adherence and openness. In this way what is called love, or rather what is really meant by the idea of love, is another non- or anti-capitalism.

The drive for truth and for self (philosophy, or sometimes art) and the drive for another person in those same terms (real love) are one of the two poles of resistance to capitalism; the other pole is simple incidental resistance of non-capitalizable factors, one of the primary of these being the factor of human limitations and human ignorances. Unfortunately for us, neither philosophy, nor art, nor love, are able to form a world for themselves within and above the world at large; nature and capital-relations form the base reality and truth-movements arise as micro-growths upon that base. To expect a truth (as philosophy, art, or love) to be able to live and form a total reality for itself without the world-reality of nature/capitalism would be the same as expecting human consciousness to exist without a human body, it doesn't make sense, the whole ideal contradicts the very conditions that in fact make the ideal even possible.

3) Humane don't want an end to capitalism, they want a better capitalism which means one functioning with less friction in their lives. This unstated fact of human psycho-pathology is what is driving the march for technologically-rationalized global neoliberal capitalism and all the brainwashing and destruction and anti-truth that comes from it. The higher mental and emotional state and corresponding every investment that would be needed to sustain a true society would negate that society being possible to endure for a longer period of time, since entropy always kicks in. In fact the argument could be made that only when a world has been made where the friction, stress and "natural capital-isms" are no longer present in any recognizable or direct manner, could or theoretically become possible for a true society (one where the drives for truth as outlined above would be able to maximize, externalize and live indefinitely without entropic collapse) to form. This is because it becomes possible for us to imagine that such an "absolutely stress-free organization of totally and smoothly functioning absolute capital-relations" could be capable of holding something upon itself in a way that allows that emergent thing freedom from entropic need. Similar to how the absolute regimentation-slavery of the physical body was required for conscious-subjective life to gain freedom in the higher domain of the mind: quite simply, the mind is largely immune to tons of otherwise entropic requirements and effects of natural law since these are now mediated downwardly by the regular and absolutely structured-repressing system of the biological organism.









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PostSubject: What is often missed in philosophy What is often missed in philosophy Icon_minitimeFri Jul 15, 2016 5:52 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Writers don't simply try to disclose the true as they see it, but also try to create the true. Truth is created (to some degree) when the writer persuades the reader to adopt the writer's view and premises and ways of thinking; this is especially true in philosophy. Most philosophy writers pretend they are objectively disclosing truth, when what they are also doing is making an attractive construct of ways of thinking, feeling and valuing that all prescribes certain means and ends. That construct can be accepted even without accepting the truths that are being argued, and this is a way of making those "truths" accepted anyway.

My goal is to write philosophy without this persuasive element. I want to disclose pure truth and I want to avoid the effect of convincing the reader to go along with my conceptual or affective schema simply because my schema appears good, useful, interesting or difficult to deny or to understand. I want to write philosophy that destroys the persuasiveness of the implied schemas used so that truth as such can be clearly viewed and dealt with. It isn't that I don't want to convince people; it's that I don't want it to be possible to convince someone without them also seeing the equal measure of truth connected actually to that reality of "persuasive factors", the conceptual and affective schemas that only happen to be employed at any particular moment or juncture of text or thought.



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Put a clever word in them! —
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I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: What is often missed in philosophy What is often missed in philosophy Icon_minitimeSun Aug 07, 2016 10:42 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This is my first post. Please forgive me while I adjust to the forum and its members.

You have my respect regarding the desire to write philosophic works. I enjoy discussing the concepts within most philosophies.

Regarding your goal, won't you have to be totally objective in order to do that?

That would mean no personal opinions. Only supportable facts. That could end up being a dry read.

And then too, people want to hear whatever supports their budding views of life and the world. This could be pretty hard-hitting for many readers.

I agree that a philosophy should not be creating truths. Leave that to religions. But the philosophy should describe the truth.
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PostSubject: Re: What is often missed in philosophy What is often missed in philosophy Icon_minitimeSun Aug 07, 2016 1:39 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
This is my first post. Please forgive me while I adjust to the forum and its members.

You have my respect regarding the desire to write philosophic works. I enjoy discussing the concepts within most philosophies.

Regarding your goal, won't you have to be totally objective in order to do that?

That would mean no personal opinions. Only supportable facts. That could end up being a dry read.

And then too, people want to hear whatever supports their budding views of life and the world. This could be pretty hard-hitting for many readers.

I agree that a philosophy should not be creating truths. Leave that to religions. But the philosophy should describe the truth.

Hi, and welcome here.

What I described doesn't require perfect Objectivity, but it does require greater objectivity than is common, even for most philosophers. Philosophy should judge itself by how far along that continuum it progresses, the continuum of objectivity. And objectivity doesn't mean "not subjective", it actually means more, greater, more accurate subjectivity.

Opinions don't exist. There are only good or bad ideas.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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What is often missed in philosophy Empty
PostSubject: Re: What is often missed in philosophy What is often missed in philosophy Icon_minitimeSun Aug 07, 2016 10:29 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi Capable,

Thanks.

Good clarifying response. I have had the discussion of the duality of objective/subjective numerous times.

Pure objectivity is next to impossible because of the way our brain works. But yes, subjectivity based on and supported by the objective is a good way of phrasing it.

IMO all too many philosophic works begin in the subjective and regress into the imaginary because they failed to support their subjectivity with the objective.

I think that a good philosophy would be one that stands on its own without invoking any supernatural powers. That is, rooted in the objective.






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[Anima] Introduction: From Jung to Parodites Empty
PostSubject: [Anima] Introduction: From Jung to Parodites [Anima] Introduction: From Jung to Parodites Icon_minitimeSun Aug 28, 2016 10:08 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
ANIMA
The name of a psychological school that aims at academic and clinical influence, based on the philosophy of Parodites, as well as on the categories created by Carl Jung; powerful memes well embedded in the global consciousness, sufficiently truthful as well as porous and mutable enough to serve as a plastic basis for a deeper meditation, which in turn is pushing forth a more penetrating method. Knowledge equals power when it is perfectly framed; but once we get deep into the mind, the face value hierarchies dissolve and knowledges are framed by each other, much like is the case in Relativity. Deeper hierarchies become discernible through new means; inherent hierarchies, logical arrangement, and what comes into play now is the esthetics of necessity.

Wherever necessity is found, it pertains at once to the mind that finds it and the thing the mind finds it to pertain to. Necessity is deeper than the mind and the thing, it is the world, and the mind becomes the thing in terms of it. So the mind is always made up of things, which are arranged by necessity; and the mind is necessary to itself, as the arrangement of things it works with is necessary for it to recognize itself. When the edifice is compromised we get schizophrenia and psychosis; in cases of a vigorous constitution the mind re arranges itself into a new, more powerfully representative, more simple and subtle and violent, imposing, natural, phenomenal hierarchy. In cases of a less than vigorous constitution, the entity ceases to exist and the organism perishes, suddenly or steadily; or it becomes entirely enslaved to another entity. It seems that up to 90 percent of westernized humans are so enslaved or perishing. That very few westernized people are not going through the process of re arrangement, and that by far the greatest number of them have no confidence that there is something solid beyond; not only is there no life after death, there seems to be no existence after the perishing lie. The task that is called Anima today is the task of building a womb for man to be reborn in a new subtle hierarchy. The proto-philosophy of Carl Gustav Jung, which holds that each psyche consists of a conscious agent and a subconscious agent that provides the substance of the conscious agent, but to such a minute degree that more often the conscious agent contradicts, or is entirely tangential to the subconscious, to which Jung very simply attributed a structural integrity, a Self; it is this posited Self that merits breakdown now, so that it can be rebuild in a greater, more subtle, more suitable form, so that in the end, human society can be submerged in its tranquil waters and breathe some cool truth...

Formally, health is the aim; de facto, the attained aim is the restoration of the instinct for health. This is, of course, the essence of health, health itself; but it is not yet robust. Human health relies on concepts; and it is only this generation of philosophers that dares to put forth concepts robust enough to penetrate into the heart of life and pervade its veins to sustain a working-health, a chemistry that lifts up, an octopus like being of understanding that is able to catch falling and straying elements and put them back into play; a politics of sanity through the reconfiguration of the concept Health, by the conceptualization of the unbroken; the vortex of drives before the lie... our aim is to create a seat of truth for the truthful, without attempting to fully solidify the Volcanic nature of the ground to this seat; Anima offers man a life inside the volcano of his real psyche, his organism; rather than in the dustclouds, far above the Earth which is invisible for any of those particles.

Metaphors drown this text now in itself, as metaphor is the substance of the anima on paper, and the point can't be made like a logical point, it must be phenomenally forged, like tectonic planets forge a mountainrange.

BTL has been a triumph over Dialectics; it has afforded philosophy a context to engage itself in chemical processes without lowering itself to the futile issue of right and wrong; all positions here are right to themselves; they are consistent with themselves, with their ground; like tectonic plates; consistencies within a universe of difference pushing together form heights.

Anima works only is the recognition of the attainment of a certain plateau; the conviction that the philosophical world as it has taken shape is edgy and rocky enough to withstand the chaotic nature of popular theory; it has been brutalized by time, enough that it can stand in the world, as an uncanny object of attraction and dread, as all great things must first appear.

This is not an initiative sanctioned by Parodites - he is not responsible for any of the lines I draw, certainly he hasnt pointed me toward Jung; Anima operates in the unmarked area of possible overlap; In a sense like a river delta between land and sea. The idea is to build a harbor, ships, docks, and integrate the land with the sea; to be able to survive at sea, outside of Schopenhauers principium individuationis and yet within the ranges of the potential self; to learn to swim, essentially, in the waters of the psyche.

Invited to join Anima are all those who have participated in the Pentad.





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War of values (of valuing) Empty
PostSubject: War of values (of valuing) War of values (of valuing) Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 6:26 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It's interesting to see today the war between pro and con "political correctness" such as on universities and what Trump has opened up with his kind of comments breaking the dynamic wide open. Free speech has been somewhat redefined into two alternate definitions: 1. Say whatever you want without limit, and 2. The right to speech that isn't harmful (that doesn't cut off the speech of others).

Trump and libertarians are in the first camp, universities and liberals are in the second camp.

The problem is that neither position works as a functional definition for freedom of speech. It is easy to say that "say whatever you want" freedom is the standard, but certain forms of speech are meant precisely to cut down the freedom (of speech, and otherwise) of others, for example speech that relies on racist or overtly stereotyping remarks actually seeks to redefine the conversational space in such a way that certain people and groups (and the speech of those people and groups who are targeted) are removed or de-prioritized from the discourse.

Is speech that intends to curtail the speech of others, a form of freedom of speech that ought to be legally/socially protected? How to establish the right to speech of those who are deliberately excluded? Excluding people based on social or racial groups is one thing, excluding people based on their violation of the speech rights of others (trolls) is another; should trolls have a "right" to speech even though their speech exists primarily to trounce the speech rights of others, and offers seemingly no other positive value?

Ayn Rand thought all speech should be protected, even that of the worst trolls. She thought the only way to fight against racism and intolerance is to openly resist it; not resist its right to say what it says but to resist it by pointing out how wrong it is. She disagreed with equality laws making for example whites and blacks only restaurants and bathrooms illegal, because she thought anyone should have the legal right to choose who to do business with and who to not do business with, based only on their own feelings (even if those feelings were incorrect, harmful, insulting, etc.)

I do not agree with the Randian type of naive freedom of speech, because that view disregards the deeper power dynamics at play in whites and blacks only segregations being enforceable by law, just as it ignores a entire history of unequal treatment and opportunities among different racial groups, and just as it also ignores how racist/etc. speech is intended to aggressively curtail the field of discourse in such a way as to exclude others. Unless this racist speech could be philosophically defended as to the truthful content it presents then such deliberate forms of silencing the opponent are a direct threat to the value of freedom of speech itself. I would argue that freedom of speech is s value that requires some enforcement of standards and norms, even if only at the basic level of "no trolling allowed". To use an example from online forums, those forums that actively prohibit and remove trolling (such as BTL here) are able to afford a much freer discourse, free in the true sense of the word beyond any mere "freedom to do whatever I want", compared to forums like ILP that do not actively prohibit and remove trolling. Trolling mucks up the gears of discourse, that is the intention behind trolling.

I tend to see racist/etc. forms of speech as basically no different from trolling. But the problem is how to draw the line between this and unpopular speech that still has merit and truth value? Plenty of truthful things of value can be said that will still offend and hurt people who hear it; so the pendulum right now in universities is swinging too far in the direction of silencing any speech that might be offensive or hurtful to others, without regard to the truth or otherwise legitimate value of that speech. This reactive pendulum swing is a threat to true freedom of speech just as the naive libertarian ideal of "no limits and no standards whatsoever" is also a threat to true freedom of speech.

So it looks like we philosophers are being called upon to offer a new and improved understanding and definition of what freedom of speech really is, what it means and what its value is and why, as well as what it is not and what threatens it, and why.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning


Last edited by Capable on Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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War of values (of valuing) Empty
PostSubject: Re: War of values (of valuing) War of values (of valuing) Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 6:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I think this all runs parallel to how economic freedom required the enforcement of an equal playing field for all economic agents, at least at the minimum necessary level. One way to interpret economic freedom is to claim that money is the high value and should dictate all priorities; but this culminates in mafia rule and oligarchy, because in the absence of such things as strong market oversight, anti-trust regulation, and law enforcement against financial fraud you end up with a society where "might makes right" is the logic at work within the economic.

The same applies to speech. There need to be legal standards and prohibitions whose purpose is to enforce an equal playing field for speech, but not so draconian as to limit speech unduly. This is the same with economics, because antitrust and anti-fraud regulations can go too far and become draconian and end up hurting economic freedom.

The imprecise "gray area" nature of these kinds of enforceable legal frameworks of "equal playing field" is the primary reason that libertarians reject them. Libertarians are often unable or unwilling to approach issues in a nuaned, philosophical manner that would aim to understand these subtle dynamics of the middle gray area, and instead would seek for an absolutist answer that could be universally applicable. My solution to that kind of naïveté is not to simply trust legal enforcement of standards and prohibitions within the fields of speech discourse or economics, but to acknowledge the dual and daemonic nature of these values: speech snd economy are two areas that defy any kind of absolutist logic, there are INHERENTLY wars of values going on at all times, values that cannot be absolutely reconciled to each other... equally it is the case that the benefit of some values will infringe upon others, and society as a whole must make an effort to balance values in such a way that maximizes the overall value-gain, not just in terms of quantity but also in terms of quality.

We cannot escape the imprecise nature of the realities that underlie speech and economy, just as the way in which we value speech and economy cannot become too precise and absolutist-universalist that would collapse that natural imprecision and "value warfare" to an untruthful, unreal position. First of all we must learn to accept and enjoy the imprecise, vague, non-universal and "value warfare" pluralist nature of here realities. At least this is as far as I've gotten in philosophizing to the depths of these issues. I'm interested if you have different takes on it.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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War of values (of valuing) Empty
PostSubject: Re: War of values (of valuing) War of values (of valuing) Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 7:30 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What is the philosophical (rational, truthful) defense of the idea of enforcing an equal playing field among economic or speech agents? It is very important that such a defense is well constructed.

The values in question must be clearly identified, let's take some examples.

Right now one's financial status and access to capital, a good job, or family money is a primary factor in being able to assert one's values economically in society. Imagine how many positive future values and truthful work, in science, philosophy, art, literature, or politics, is all cut out of existence and never comes to be because those people who would have created those things never had the opportunity to do so, for one reason or another (maybe they were too poor to go to school, got caught up in crime, were killed by violence, were silenced by abuse or threats, to name some reasons). Values attempt to create their own reality but this is not a given, each such value must fight its way up through all that would resist its creative process and expression-realization. One defense of the equal playing field is that when it comes to truth and values, aspects such as where a person is born, what color their skin is or how much money they have are all irrelevant unrelated factors to that truth and value, therefore to the extent that these extraneous factors inhibit potentiation of those truths and values the factors themselves are irrational.

This same holds true for speech as for economics, because a person's speech rights and options are directly connected into other aspects of a person's life. The right of free speech is largely just a secondary manifestation of the fight to free thought and free action... to freedom of life. When a person's speech is inhibited then the other areas of their living can also easily suffer, including their ability and drive to maximize their values and create their truths in the world. Intelligence and positive values will draw from all over the scope of humanity, largely irreducible to those extraneous factors just mentioned -- but if those factors are irrationally allowed to preempt possibilities for values-expressions, in either speech or thought or action or economic power, then humanity as a whole suffers.

This is the primary defense for an equal playing field, that it aims to clear away a space where extraneous and irrational factors (unrelated to truths and values) are not the determining forces on who succeeds and what is created. The philosophical value of having a society with a strong equal playing field of this type is connected to the general principle that no person, judged by virtue of those various extraneous factors to which they are subject, can rationally be a priori excluded from life and deemed merely unfit to participate in creative, truthful or valuable work; note that this principle is not at all the same as saying that every person will actually have this capacity to create truthfully and valuably. We cannot know in advance who has the capacity to create and do what, so there is a logical necessity to value the maximum freedom for all people to self-express and realize their potential without undo detrimental and limiting factors. Imagine if Einstein or Shakespeare or Nietzsche were born today but born into extreme poverty, the ghetto, maybe were gunned down by crime or arrested in a broad police sweep and tagged in the criminal justice system and never had the opportunity to contribute what they had to contribute. Now multiple those couple of easy examples by the thousands; that is the state of irrationality in the world today.

Only philosophy can resist that irrationality. Only the highest possible vision and value can remake the human world in the image of a greater freedom, greater in both quality and quantity of life, which in the human sense of the word "life" means fundamntally connected to truth and to values-progress.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Philosophers

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Text analysis: an ideal politics Empty
PostSubject: Text analysis: an ideal politics Text analysis: an ideal politics Icon_minitimeMon Sep 12, 2016 8:06 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This text is the tenth section in my recent book, A Brief Study in Being. Fixed and Sauwelios will hopefully keep helping me critique and draw out these ideas, and I would like to invite Parodites and Pezer to offer comment and criticism too if they would like to and have time for it.

It's time at least for me to try and develop a true philosophical idea of politics. Without this pure theoretical construct I am unable to act or think in a practical political sense, and besides philosophy too long has been without this kind of theory. We have many theories in philosophy that stray into politics in one way or another but all make basis assumptions of values, and I've yet to see a clear enumeration that establishes value-grounds and basic principles from which the political can be built from scratch. To me, philosophy and politics have always been anathema to one another, I detested politics and saw it only as a realized absence of philosophy; Parodites offered another view that got me thinking, his view was that politics is justified as the enacting of philosophy, that any politics no matter how palatable or good-seeming (or not) is justified if it serves to instantiate philosophical truths. I'm paraphrasing his idea but I think this gets it essentially; culture produces social meaning, and philosophy assists in producing culture, then politics is a way of giving space for culture/philosophy to dominate in a society. Politics as the most basic kinds of relations of structure and defense (national borders, foreign diplomacy and agreements, basic social services... Beyond that politics should not reach, for example politics should not attempt to create any kind of culture or try to mold people into certain forms or values. Politics as "empty" with respect to culture (therefore culture being free to be created by geniuses and philosophers, with politics standing on the side providing "security" as it were for the cultural/philosophical work of genius).

I like this view, but I do have problems with it. I can't see the political simply stepping aside like that, even if it would be ideal for it to do so; I also think that the political can be directly justified by a philosophy and vice versa, which is to say that while philosophy is only justified by truth, by itself, philosophy at the real world practical level can be justified in other ways and to give rise to an effective politics could be a justification for a philosophy. I think in precisely this way a good philosophy should be aware of its political implications and powers and even strive to push and develop these powers and implications, more so than just being content to be on the "right side of history" working in the background with truths that are inevitable to be realized at some future time anyway. If good philosophy is content to just sit back like that it is really abdicating some of its power and effect, and those truths which philosophy deals with could in fact be quite a bit less inevitable than they seem. But there is also the clear feeling that philosophy should not sully itself with "impure" work of enacting practical political effects.

Also in addition to all that, I think politics represents a potentially very effective tool for social realization of truths and goods, and it would be unfortunate for us to simply refuse to use it for that purpose simply because we see politics being used in this way for less truthful and less good ends already. Politics as tool to enact social and individual changes can be refined in how well and to what ends that power is put. I personally detest most of politics, but I'm not going to let that get in the way of my philosophy attempting to approach the political. So I think we need a true complete theory of the political, at the level of pure philosophy. I like what VO has to offer as a theoretical conceptual ground here with respect to values as well as ontological and subjective implications of the idea of self-valuing, so that's where I'll start.

(Apologies for the typos, I don't have the motivation to go through and perfect all of these right now).




An Ideal Politics (The Politics of Self-Valuing)


An ideal politics is one that seeks to maximize both quality and quantity of self-valuing. This means that positively society should be taking steps to form structures and systems that are targeted at providing the means for as many people as possible to maximize their self-valuing as much as possible, while also negatively society should restrain from enacting structures and systems that have a net effect of preventing or reducing quantity and quality of people's self-valuing. Primarily the inner struggle of such a politics is in how to balance this positivity and negativity to maximum self-valuing realization as both quality and quantity; such an inner struggle will fully commence with the continued realization of an ideal politics in the world, and in both the theoretical and practical senses will become one of the primary focuses of philosophy in the future.

Current and historical forms of society and politics are most often constructed to maximize the self-valuing of a small segment of the populace, namely those with established power or wealth (note that power does not always = wealth, wealth does not always = power). This is an example of applying instrumental reason in order to convert some people's self-valuing potential into a mere tool for the purposes of increasing the self-valuing potential of others (the rich and powerful). Modern capitalism evolved into a system that attempts to forge a middle ground here: modern capitalism is designed to allow people who are presently "tools" in this way to eventually acquire enough money or power in order to free themselves into the upper classes where they will then benefit from those others who are still tools at the bottom of society.

Capitalism in its structural logic is inherently emancipatory but only to a limited extent, because only for a limited number of people within limited circumstances; one must work hard or somehow acquire enough wealth to free oneself from the lower classes, at which point one is able to gain access to the tool-nature of others still stuck in the lower classes. Capitalism is not truly emancipatory because capitalism only values emancipation (freedom from being a tool) through the mechanism of acquiring wealth to oneself, and not for example through other mechanisms such as legal or social normative prohibitions against the act of turning people into tools. American capitalism is the development of modern capitalism that intended to bridge modern capitalism with a truly emancipatory (rational, free) society by not only establishing capitalism's limited mechanism of emancipation of certain numbers of people who can acquire wealth to themselves but also by pairing this emancipation with legal and social forms that establish rights of people not to be tools.

The problem with American capitalism is that this effort was only partially established; in 2016 today these legal and social forms, establishing rights not to be a tool, are still very limited. Not only are they limited logically in their construction but also practically in their effect, because in the real world is very hard to reverse the trend of all human history where societies always exist to convert most people into tools for the sake of others.

An ideal politics would be one that bridges American capitalism with the next stage of socioeconomic development; it may not be possible yet to establish a truly emancipatory (rational, free) society but the ideal politics of 2016 would exist to form bridges to new structures that increase the progress toward that eventual truly emancipatory society.

Sadly, most societies around the world today aren't even as advanced as modern capitalism or American capitalism (American capitalism also includes capitalisms within Europe, because these also have certain legal and social forms aimed at limiting the mechanisms whereby some people are turned into tools for the sake of others). Most of the human race in 2016 is still stuck in the dark ages, in the deep past where not even the marginal emancipation afforded by modern capitalism reaches them. Even if America or some other county were to establish a true emancipatory society it would still leave most human beings outside of that society.



Once some societies get more rational and free, it is the obligation of these societies to use the capital and power that naturally comes with that rational free form of society (America, Europe) to actively fight against the remnants of the dark ages that still exist around the world. This was the original impetus behind western interventionism aimed at spreading democracy around the planet, but that impetus was quickly subverted to both the dark ages impetus of making people into tools as well as subverted by that in modern capitalism which is only very limited emancipatory, namely the universalization of the value of money.

It was Kant or someone else who said that morality is based on treating others as ends rather than as means. Of course it's inevitable with the logic of self-valuing that we treat others somewhat as means, because self-valuing always looks at its environment and the objects in it as potential means for the realization of its own self-valuing, but morality is the fact that a counter-order of logic was interposed into this 'natural' self-valuing: the natural self-valuing seeks to use others as means and only see others as ends when that in fact benefits oneself directly, namely still seeing others as ends anyway, whereas the eruption of morality into nature (that eruption of morality is human being) established the logical principle of primarily seeing others as ends and only secondarily seeing them as means. This moral eruption reversed the basis logic of practical self-valuing, creating a negation of natural animal being which negation lives on in humanity as the inner conflict of his nature, as his “soul”.

The deeper logical reasoning behind the eruption of the moral into the orders of nature is simple: the nature self-valuing of means-prioritizing the objects of one's environment is a consequence of mere contingency and survival necessity and does not actually reflect the true being or ontological reality of those objects; the moral eruption introduced truth into the equations of natural self-valuing by remaking self-valuing into something capable of recognizing truth as such, namely in this case that all objects of one's environment are actually self-valuings themselves and therefore are primarily ends rather than means (because unlike Nietzsche's will to power principle, self-valuing inherently views itself as an end always, and only as a means for the purposes of achieving those ends; will to power posits the lesser idea that beings see themselves as means (to more power or to more feeling of power) and only see themselves as ends in so far as doing they furthers some means (of expanding power or the feeling of power).

The principle of self-valuing corrected the principle of the will to power by realizing the fact that all beings value themselves primarily as ends and only secondarily as means; the will to power principle instead only reflects the logic of natural (pre-moral) self-valuing being which always values the objects of its environment firstly as means and only secondarily or not at all as ends (note here how this reveals the onto-epistemic 'gap' between pre-human and human being: pre-human being cannot value itself directly and so values objects in its environment in a fundamentally different way than it values itself, whereas human being begin to value objects in the environment in the same way it value itself, namely as ends in themselves, which means that an inner subjective alignment is gradually instantiated between oneself and one's experiences that begins to correct the problem of the subject-object divide (philosophy itself is, in part, this gradual correction)). While natural self-valuing also always values itself as primarily an end rather than as just a means, this fact was unable to be understood (those natural beings are not aware that they value themselves primarily as an end, although this is what they always do) and was also in philosophy obscured behind the idea of will to power. The fact that natural beings always value themselves as ends but are unable to understand this fact (unable to value it directly as fact) resulted in an externalization and method of valuing whereby the inner disproportion of natural being (its valuing itself differently then how it values objects in the environment) required that the lack of its understanding of the end-in-itself of its own self-valuing was compensated for by an outward proliferation of so many different ways of collecting and converting the object's of one's experiences into constellated arrangements of means-uses, thus securing the end-status of the self as self-valuing but in a purely negative (unconscious, void, indirect, reactive) manner. Natural pre-moral being seeks to posit its environment as a pure means to itself not only because this has so far allowed for survival (but only via the mechanism of natural selection, which actually works against or is indifferent to the survivability of individual beings (of self-valuings)) but also because this positing of the inherent means-value of everything other than oneself was the only way for these natural beings to enact the most basic fact of their own self-valuing, namely that they are to themselves inherently an end and never just a means.

Back to politics then, politics reflects these various stages in the development of individual self-valuing being, from natural into morally-possible (possessing the innate capability to eventually become moral, e.g. early human beings over the last 10,000 years roughly) to morally-actual (fully realized human being). Today many people are still largely morally-possible only, owing to the fact that these people still live in societies that are themselves still constructed out of the logic of that former 10,000 years of the dark ages of history where early humanity was still largely composed of the logic of natural self-valuing only. Thus politics reflects the situation of the individual while also working to provide the conditions for that individual situation to persist. The ideal of emancipatory politics is to construct a society that maximizes quality and quantity of self-valuing and this ideal is itself a reflection or rather a realization of the more basic shift from natural to moral self-valuing being, the shift from being able to see others and oneself only largely as means to being able to see others and oneself as most essentially ends in themselves (further clarification on this last point: while all beings self-value and therefore inherently treat themselves as ends (this is what self-valuing means) most beings cannot see or understand this fact; to see or understand this fact would be to incorporate it qua fact into the valuing of self-valuing, and this is what human being can do. This achieves the closure of the open loop of inner contradiction whereby natural self-valuing seeks to convert the entirety of its external world-environment into a means for itself, because of the fact that these self-valuings are unable to value directly themselves as ends and must do this indirectly only. Note that this inner "loop" of contradiction and resulting drive to means-convert everything external to oneself is what has sometimes been called the survival instinct or by Nietzsche was mistaken for the will to power (Nietzsche attempted to universalize this means-converting drive to the metaphysical (ontological) level, when in fact the drive itself is only a product of something else, that inner contradiction or inner disproportion of (natural, pre-moral) self-valuing being)).

[Notes to myself: Next to add on about: 1) looking at the value of maximizing quality and quantity of self-valuing for as many people as possible (i.e. democracy, or subjecting political social forms to the actualizable "will" of the governed), 2) looking at the being of money and alternate possible forms of money if the current form of money is found to be inescapable modern capitalistic and thus serves a mechanism of only limited emancipation, 3) looking at how to rethink practical socioeconomics so that it is no longer necessary for many people to be converted into tools for the sake of others (i.e. even American capitalism slowly trending toward the ideal still contains the inherent logical contradiction that the elevation of more people above tool-status rests on necessarily keeping others at tool-status (this is manifested by global capitalism's drive to convert the people of the third world into labor (outsourcing, Foxconn, neoliberal "free trade" agreements, etc.

...

The limited emancipatory potential of modern capitalism as mentioned above (the reliance on wealth-gain rather than on reason and freedom-based social systems, policies, laws, etc., as well as the practically speaking limited number of people who can rise into the middle-upper classes) is further limited by a subtler logical contradiction: the mechanism of emancipation (of not being a tool and means for the sake of others) in modern capitalism is structured in such a way so that one's personal emancipation must come at the cost of preventing others’ emancipation. This is more than a theoretical problem, because at the real practical level there are many people always existing as being tools valued as means rather than as ends (valued in this way by others, by institutions, by jobs, or by society at large in the general and abstract sense), which means that emancipation under modern capitalism is defined as moving oneself up the ladder of social and economic class (how much money one has) in order to gain access ti the benefits of the labor of others. Wealth is used to purchase goods and services, which are in turn provided by laborers/workers of all kinds; many of these laborers/workers are people still persisting at the lower rungs of society, essentially being valued by their work and by that society as mere tools, yet now under the (partial limited) emancipation of others are even more insidiously being indirectly valued as tools and as means by these newly-emancipated people who have had relative success within the capitalist system. The simple fact of succeeding (of gaining more money, gaining enough money to solve or prevent the problems one faces, which in this case of a more sociopolitical analysis means that one solves the problem of being used as a tool and means for others) is defined as gaining access to the benefits of using others as tools and as means for oneself, even if only indirectly through spending our newly increased wealth to the ends of making sure we aren’t subjugated by instrumental reason of being used as a means for others.

This implies a deep problem within Economy: the economic systems, activities and transactions which define and flesh out capitalism and in terms of which the upper classes of emancipated people exercise their reason and freedom (their lack of being valued by others as tools/mere means) are in fact separated from a whole different order of classes in terms of those systems, activities and transactions. This other, latter group of separate ‘systems, activities and transactions’ constitutes the non-economic forms of human life such as interpersonal friendships and relations, family, love and romantic relations, artistic expression and free creation. This latter group of “non-economically-classed” activities also consists of these same forms self-applied at the level of the individual being to itself in addition to interpersonally applied. In either case of being individually or interpersonally applicable, these forms comprise a class of existence essentially beyond the strict economics of either enslavement or emancipation and thus, in theory at least, reside beyond the range of modern capitalism’s ability, with its mechanism of partial-limited emancipation, to address. Succeeding as such in the emancipation afforded by capitalism is even unable to emancipate us at this other level of the personal and interpersonal; even if we acquire large amounts of money and cease to be required to sell our physical, emotional and mental labor to an employer (this selling of oneself as labor is the modern form of enslavement (of being valued as a means and not as an end)) this freedom and reason does not immediately or necessarily translate into freedom and reason in either the personal or interpersonal spheres, i.e. into perhaps self-esteem, intelligence, wellbeing, sexual vitality, meaningful relationships with others, emotional balance and lack of compelling pathologies, creative vision or an earned personal nobility, etc. None of these aspects and qualitative areas of our lives can be gained simply by achieving modern capitalist emancipation, i.e. by acquiring enough money to cease needing to consent to being treated as a means and not as an end. The reason for this disconnect between the two groups (the two groups of activities defined loosely as either the economic or non-economic) is that each group operates on different logic and rules from the other, and holds its influence and expertise in different areas than does the other. In terms of self-valuing being, emancipatory capitalism can succeed at freeing being from enslavements of instrumentalization but cannot succeed at ensuring successful, effective or meaningful valuing or self-valuing. A further and even subtler contradiction acting as a limitation here to modern capitalism's emancipatory potential is that the more a person rises up in economic classes, gaining more money and thus more space for materializable reason and freedom until oneself and one’s living conditions, the less there can tend to be the personal motivation to continue valuing in this emancipatory way; said another way, what is gained by strength of effort and desire is later taken for granted precisely because that level of effort and desire is no longer needed to sustain having it. For, while when a person is of a lower class and lacks economic emancipation they see the potential for emancipation as an image of their ideal world and, lacking it themselves, strive to spread this ideal across their experiences and to color life with it, once these ideals has been more or less achieved there is no further direct incentive, due to the fact that a self-valuing itself always acts as the final measure and threshold for values so that the paradox here is that it is often easier to assert a value when we are not already ourselves satisfying the condition of that value. This is the case when one's own lack of the value in question can be at least partially satisfied in a secondary vicarious sense by sharing in another's gain of this value or in another's work and effort to gain it, so that their obvious commitment and self-valuing engagement in terms of the value becomes partly our own following the appropriative logic of subjectivity-being (that subjectivity or “life” inherently interprets its experiences and the objects of its experiences as literal extensions of itself). In other cases the opposite is true, and obtaining a value makes it easier to spread and share this value to others, increases our desire and energy for fighting for this value in order to instantiate it within the world and around oneself; This ‘not only for oneself’ aspect of these sort of values accedes to a nature in valuing that connects beings to each other below the surfaces of overt values, thereby subtly drawing excess potency and energy from that subterranean realm of shared being, like the roots of trees mingling out of sight deep within the earth. To propose a candidate for method here, a more individualized value-analysis would be needed to parse these opposite motivational systems so as to determine exactly how each value is constructed, in what situations, and how and why.

. . .

Genius is a subtle thing, and make no mistake that self-valuing is genius and genius is (always a) self-valuing. Politics cannot ever truly give genius nor can it truly give self-valuing. What politics can do is pave the ways for self-valuings to express themselves; politics as the maximum potential for a war of values. This war is a sublimated war, a super-tension that can never be abated and can only continuously generate and regenerate truths either as positive or negative forms. The oft-touted dialectics of synthesizing a thesis with its antithesis should itself be grounded in an "anti-dialectics" (Chambers) whereby differences are not flattened into their medial interpositional mutual compromises (compromises in which nonetheless one side always gives more than the other, with a mutuality of loss being the form as such of gain) but instead held in their actual differentiations, compromise and synthesis resisted thereby and because of the nature of the failure implied by such merely synthetic compromises. Overt warfare, “real war” is a sign that the conditions for valuing are absent—every real war is nothing but an example of the fact that a world of truer self-valuing is still impossible. Overcoming warfare or what is called “peace” is not the absence of war but rather war’s sublimation into progressively higher and higher states.

Just as life requires its material conditions to be adequately realized (bodily health, food and water, absence of enslavement, absence of traumas so extreme that they over-code the logical possibilities for elevating values above themselves, etc.) so too do human societies require that their own "material conditions" are established sufficiently to guarantee the functioning of society, which means that the grounds of human relations (to oneself as well as to others) are ones that secure the open-ended possibility for hierarchical valuing, for the war of values to continue without telos or end (this is an emergent analogous form to the without-telos of self-valuing as such). Society in this way shares this property with self-valuing being, but is also in another sense the exact opposite of a self-valuing being: society itself has and should have no end, no telos, society itself should be pure means and field of materials from which self-valuing beings (humans) draw what is needed for those beings to build themselves into the future, to share and compete their values to ultimate ends of truth and life; said another way, whereas the end of self-valuing being is nothing but itself, which is to say, being qua being or what we might call the most reality of the situation, “truth”, the end of society is to become a pure means for the realization of self-valuing beings unto each other and themselves. The Jews and Christians were right to hypothesize a God as a tangible single being, just as Spinoza, Nietzsche and others were right to counter-hypothesize a God as a pure negativity, the total absence of either personhood or identity. This void of identity in abstracto is society in the particular, a void into which only one thing could ever move as if driven by a high-pressure system into the region of a lower pressure. That one thing is just human being itself.

The only justification of society in terms of those politics that administer it would be to proliferate values and self-valuings which are themselves often antithetical to the kind of society that would allow and require that. Real human relationships form their own societies, ones of a distinctly and innately, immanently valuational nature and this is possible because the entities in question, the terms in the equation of these human relationships, are always-already individual, distinctly self-valuing ones. A good politics is absolutely required to administer the material conditions and needs of a society, but not because those material conditions and needs are valuable on their own, rather the exact opposite is the case and precisely the lack of inherent value of such things is the reason why human society must employ “a politics” to administer and guarantee them. In other words, things have value only because they have been touched by the hand of a human being (and not by the hand of some god), and those things which might be touched but cannot in themselves return something of that gesture of affection cannot truly be touched at all. Modern capitalism will continue to transition into something that further isolates people from one another at the material levels in order to provide for further inter-penetration of the valuing spheres by which people truly live their (personal and interpersonal) lives. The commonplace fear of being required to sustain oneself in terms of the open warfare and play of one's values against the values of others is a severe limiting factor for the emergence of a more ideal politics; people would much rather be required to sustain themselves by purely material, non-valuational means so that their values, whether as their ideas, rationality, intellect, feelings, emotional depth, creative vibrancy and vision, intrinsic qualities, etc. be relegated to superficial status so that oneself could never be truly judged by such things. But this only represents the infancy of humanity, or perhaps if we are being optimistic, its adolescence and soon to be coming of age.

. . .

The philosophical justification of democracy is not that all people should have their values equally recognized and valued by others (or by that surrogate for being-valued by others, namely by "society itself") but that all people should be implicitly socially held to the standard of human being which is the standard of self-valuing, which further means to recognize and respond to, on the one hand, ends as ends and, on the other hand, means as means. The political justification for this philosophic idea of democracy is to establish an “equal playing field” in such a way that only those recognitions and responses able to successfully (instinctively or consciously) parse ends and means into their proper accountings would end up contributing to the shared conditions whereby a "society" could form and maintain itself, so that such a society would at all times be a society of human beings and not one of some other kind of being (animal, plant, robot, etc.). This is a secret impetus behind all acts of genius, behind all truly human acts; it is too the secret meaning of "reason and freedom" and represents a hidden impetus behind any truly authentic politics. Conversely, the hidden impetus or "repressed truth" of inauthentic politics (what we can call loosely “power politics”) is precisely to cover over, obscure and nullify that genuine condition and truly human standard.

There is a difference between the veracity with which a value is asserted and the content of that value: the issue of the "value of a value" must be raised whenever we wish to examine the values conflicts that define the supreme content of an ideal politics. Much of the success of values in the world can be owed not to that value itself, not to its content, but rather to the psychological force with which the value has been asserted and thereby impressed into individual, social and economic substances. This is an “economy of values” sometimes called advertising or marketing, whereby values, represented by objects (called, in quintessential modern capitalist parlance, “products”), are pushed with maximum psychological, social and economic effect in order for the content of the value to act as a means for realizing something other than that content. The natural effect of that value-content is thereby subverted in order to become causal to something other than itself, which from the perspective of the modern capitalistic impulse driven by wealth acquisition (as previously stated, this is the mechanism of limited emancipation we must use as consequence of living within modern capitalism) means to parlay values into something else, that 'something else' being (again from the perspective of the modern capitalistic) one's own individual emancipation. Values today are being used by people in order to try and secure wealth sufficient to produce an emancipatory effect. The danger to ourselves of becoming a mere tool, a pure means to others' ends is so ever-present in this society governed by modern capitalism that even values themselves, even our own self-valuing is corrupted for the purposes of trying to ward off that danger. It is therefore true that even from the perspective of the (limited) emancipation afforded by modern capitalism humanity is still very much living in the animal wild of basic, banal survival need. In terms of the hierarchy of needs (Maslow), which I would redefine as a Hierarchy of Values, it is the case that in a fundamental sense we are always caught up in operating within the lowest tier of that hierarchy, as if we were not even human.

This psychological effect of how values are pushed for purposes other than those of the values themselves (other than the value’s actual content as “value of value”) should not be confuses with the quality and quantity of desire associated to a value, to that aspect of the value which naturally grips human being at the psychological level and compels in that being a value's realization. Values quite naturally take over being, command being from within and this is what it means for being to be self-valuing: that a being's “selfing” is expressed categorically as "a valuing", is expressed and realized in the form of values. Even objects of our experiences are converted directly into values within the self-valuing being, within its “consciousness” and “subjectivity”. We do this all the time—objects are for us the signs of values. But even the false use of values just mentioned, namely by psychological-capitalistic import to secure emancipation by merely using values for other means, also points to the deeper, true value of the value in so far as the value is able to be used at all in this way. There is a confusion between these two kinds of “use-value” of value, and it is in the space opened up between these two forms (in so far as they are still so confused with one another, which they are) that capitalism has been able to transition into its modern form granting limited emancipation. But a politics of self-valuing must go even farther than the level of this confusion: a merely partial and limited emancipation (reason and freedom instantiated in the world by virtue of the terms of human being as such) is synonymous with a merely partial and limited understanding at the level of our conscious and unconscious self-valuing in so far as we perpetuate the fundamental confusion between the true and false use of values. To realize an ideal politics would be to resolve this situation of confusion so that values can live openly and express their real maximum content. Each value has an individualized real content, every truly human thing broken off from larger being wishes to live to the fullest extent, wishes to become free and to live in that freedom and reason for which and by which it is what it is in the first place. These “broken off things” are our values, they are truth substances spun out from our larger self-valuing as fragments of being. Politics should not attempt to synthesize these in order to establish a medial ground and average between them, because this capacity to pragmatically synthesize values can only truly be accomplished by self-valuing itself, and this is indeed what is meant by the sociability and interpersonal nature of human life. Such a profound and deep nature of self-valuings-in-interaction could never be duplicated upward to the level of systems and bureaucratic administration, but those systems nonetheless desire to appropriate and own as much of the truly human valuational domain as possible and, in so far as politics is communal in nature, this false-political impulse to appropriate strays into the domain of the social-interpersonal fabric of human being, attempting to value it directly. The great irony is that humanity is fighting a war with its own human systems precisely because these systems and 'impersonal entities' have learned from man himself how to value and self-value; human self-valuing being is so potent and truth-realizing that it has spread the form of self-valuing throughout the world and even into man's own impersonal systems—man's touch upon fragile existence is so graceful that even non-being wishes to live with man in his wondrous kingdom of meaning.

. . .

Self-valuing is an end as such, and therefore prescribes no absolute Ends. Democracy as one prescription of means (and not of ends) is justified as an attempt to level the playing field of impurities and imperfections with respect to values, so that values in their own pure right and reality can play and interplay upon the surfaces of life affording causal significance more and more tailored to the nature of the valuational as such. Democracy is not justified as a positive value, as if the sheer act of granting an equality of value to people in the area of representation to the affairs of governance would somehow instantiate those people’s high value as political agents or would somehow, even more so, reform governance itself away from the false politics of the logic of the dark ages of the past 10,000 or so years of human history, a dark ages we are still very much trapped in today. Democracy alone achieves nothing; democracy is just a condition of possibility for the achievement of transformative politics by virtue of instituting an active war of values, but democracy must be careful not to be posited as any kind of end-state of that value-warfare, for democracy is not any such end or telos and is merely a means, again a pure condition of possibility. Democracy is nothing more than an expression of the principle of self-valuings-in-interaction in so far as that interaction leads necessarily to productive value warfare (culture as such is one example of this productivity). Falsely conflating democracy with any kind of telos has created more space for the confusion between true and false valuing at the psychological level of compulsory (causal) force whereby people would rather use values as swords and shields in their own offense and defense than use values as... values, as what they truly are. Our human values are so valuable that they can be used for many purposes other than those purpose which they in fact are, and this is among the signs of their very power.

To use a value as a mere tool in one's own offense or defense toward achieving personal emancipation is a false social construct that is what I call the pathological; the pathological is just another form of value-confusion whereby values (again, values are “fragments of (our) being”) are fundamentally mistaken to be something they are not, so that the essence and pure truth of values is buried in favor of a outward aggression and regression in so far as values implicitly always include so many ways and means of interacting forcibly between beings, indeed because values and valuing are the 'glue' that holds beings together in the first place. Like all values potentially, democracy acts as a condition of possibility and therefore is open to becoming confused for being a ground whereupon our self-valuing can rest easy in itself, namely as democracy as pathological excuse to curb one's own political valuing, and this is the main problem with democratic politics today: that it encourages pathology (false use of values) by virtue of the fact that democracy is in fact a 'true value' instantiated at the political level. Part of this pathology eats away at the foundation of democracy, attempting by force of entropy to return politics to a pre-democratic state, to a mere “power politics” and this entropic effect makes use of that in democracy which is, while inspiring further pathological possibilities, is in fact the true value of democracy at all, namely that democracy implicitly clears a way for self-valuings to engage in their natural activity of valuing in a common space created by those very values themselves, so that neither politics nor democracy themselves have much positive content at all and are purely negative, meaning they help lay conditions for other things. Something other than democracy must be used to increase the valuing condition and quality of human being today. Democracy like many things should simply be assumed and then forgotten. Anyone driven to fight against democracy is inherently too pathological already, but anyone driven to fight for democracy is also gripped in pathology albeit of a different kind. It is often the case that our individual pathological needs end up driving our more pure philosophical, valuational interests and this is to some extent unavoidable and even desirable (or, rather, it would be undesirable to attempt to remove all such pathology from a human being, when faced with continually diminishing returns here it is quite possible that “curing” human being in that way of theoretically removing all pathology would only end up removing human being itself) but, again, this is about transiting up the ladder of being, of moving humanity further up upon the Hierarchy of Values. There is the question of our own values and self-valuing, and then there is the question of the value of these values, of the value of our self-valuing; and then there is the question of to what extent can we value directly the value of our own valuing, to what extent can human being self-value its own self-valuing and remain philosophically true to the depths of itself in those conditions of greater reason and freedom which indeed do always drive self-valuing being qua self-valuing being? These are each separate questions. The politics of self-valuing must be born from the ashes of that which has been burned away in the crucible which such questions represent—and indeed, human being is this very “that which has been burned away” already: the over-rising of being from within itself, values atop values in the never ending climb of truth. I believe it is this transitive power of values and of valuing (and could not perhaps self-valuing itself be this very “transitive power of values”... and nothing besides?) that has been so far mistaken either as a life-instinct, as the value and need for a "power politics", or as the will to power.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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Text analysis: an ideal politics Empty
PostSubject: Re: Text analysis: an ideal politics Text analysis: an ideal politics Icon_minitimeMon Sep 12, 2016 3:35 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
From brief conversation with Sauwelios:


Sauwelios wrote:
Haven't read the rest of your book's final section yet, but I had this further thought at this point. Might we say that, except for the supreme self-valuings (the "peak" I mentioned in my first post in Magnus' recent "Self-valuing" thread), self-valuings do value their real selves, but only as means to their ideal selves?

I would appreciate Fixed Cross's feedback on all this. Couldn't we better discuss these things at a hidden forum on BTL or something?


Regarding this, "...self-valuings do value their real selves, but only as means to their ideal selves", what I think you are saying is that what I call natural self-valuings (non-peak, non-conscious) self-value what they are, their real selves, but in such a way that they are really valuing a false/ideal version of themselves because they do not know their real selves yet..but the real self is nonetheless what always ground self-valuing anyway, even if we go about doing that through false/ideal self-valuing and values.

This is more or less how I see it, if indeed that is what you were saying then we agree. As being does not know itself (most beings in existence do not know themselves) it is forced to self-valuing a very partial images/idea of itself; basically, the perceptive or perspectival or experiential aspect of said being is going to feed back into that being a very limited, narrow, partial, even highly false 'image', and it is this image which is being valued. Values take place according to two fronts: the being itself as ground, and the experiential image that the being is fed through its perceptual/interactive faculties (interacting with the outside world, as well as with itself). Usually these two "fronts" are extremely separated from each other in not only space and time, but also in terms of meaning, which is most critical... subjectively speaking these two aspects of a being, these two fronts of its self-valuing, are living on different worlds.

Where they meet together and converge, this is the being that manifests into existence, this is what REALLY exist: as the false/partial image is fed into being then being must make use of that image-content as that by which it can value, so a subjective alignment obtains as the image is attempted to be read upon the ground of being (the ground is just whatever is non- or pre-image.. and includes that from which the image actually arises). Humanity is a very long historical process of that ground attempting to match the images which are continuously being read upon it, just as this process also includes the attempts to tailor that image to the grounds on which it is read. As ground and image, "real and ideal selves" perhaps, converge more and more you get subjective alignments, isometries, synchronicities... basically being deepens and becomes like a fractal, spiraling out into infinity.

At this point being literally escapes itself, but for a very different reason than natural (very simple, non-human) being escaped itself: while natural being escaped itself because its ground and its image could not possibly be matched up, human being escapes itself because the ground and image of human being DO begin to match up, which is like holding up two mirrors in front of each other; each refracts the other over and over, attempting to match the other which becomes more than more itself-already, therefore matching becomes hopelessly impossible to the extent that match becomes more and more the case. I think human being today is in this stage where continued matching is being thwarted by that fractal peaking into infinite refraction between the being-ground and the being-image. This is actually why people really suck at thinking, why forming concepts and using reason are so seemingly impossible for most people. Also it is probably connected to the emotional insanity of many people, their purely animalistic feelings-reactive nature.

The consequence of this is that the "really real" self is actually the combination of ground-self and image-self. There is no concrete Real Self, only various ways of relating grounds to emergent images, partial fractaling alignments that compel being to self-value forever... if this being does its self-valuing well enough then this forever-valuing amounts to an endless climb up the universal ladder of being, as being becomes more and more "itself", larger, more comprehensive, deeper, more truthful but also more able to "lie" (to posit against the given-real), essentially containing more substances and more variety of substances. The "really real" being is partly a concrete and partly a virtual entity, and can never be exhausted nor totally known, but at least we human beings can keep approaching it more and more without end.


...

I would like to relate this "real and ideal" as perhaps being used by Sauwelios as true and false (more or less.. I think) to Parodites' already well-formed and established concepts of real and ideal egos. I have a picture in my mind of Parodites' use of these concepts, the kind of space they carve out, but I still have a hard time describing this. The best I can do is to say that subjectivity-consciousness is like a huge filtering and responding mechanism and whatever is filtered outside of a certain circumscribed boundary is what we can call the Ideal content of the self, whereas what falls within that boundary is what we can call the Real content of the self. That boundary is always somewhat the limit to what we can know or describe or "reason" at all, and the way I see it is that as we approach that boundary from within (we are always, as concretely realized selves, inside that boundary) the forms of the self begin to dissolve at that upper limit to the interiority-space Real. This means that our concepts are no longer able to divide into antithetical conceptual forms of sustained differences: concepts maintain differences as tension, as daemonic tension, and it is this tension and the resulting excess latent to each concept and subjective content as a result of that underlying tension which gives those concepts/contents their power to assert themselves within consciousness as something to react against, and something that can itself react. But it takes a kind of active power and strength to be able to cut those divisions into existing "solid substances" in consciousness as well as to maintain those divisions as sustained tension over time, like the strings on a violin tightened so that they can produce musical notes.

The Ideal then, being whatever is outside of this boundary, is more like the "unconsciousness" as all those contents that do not yet inform the self and have not yet been "cut into divisions able to sustain daemonic tensions", which is probably how these unconsciousness-contents are ever able to even enter into consciousness-Self to begin with: they are able to connect to the self because those exterior Ideal contents become self-divided resulting in triadic tensions that subsequently hook into existing tension-systems (excesses) that already exist, namely hook into the Real self. The real is what has already been build by this method, while the ideal is what exists to be built. But because those ideal contents are still "pure" and not yet affected by the real mechanism of division and excessive tensioning the ideal might very well reflect a state closer to truth, at least to a truth lying outside the scope of the subject-itself or "self" to know (and to falsify by converting it into consciousness).

Parodites: which is more "real", which is more true, the Real self or the Ideal self? Does this question even make sense to you? I would think it is the combination of both together that produces human being, and both are probably needed for peak self-valuing. Or maybe the ideal is just a remainder waiting to be incorporated into an ever-growing real.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:47 pm

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PostSubject: The Turing test proves nothing The Turing test proves nothing Icon_minitimeTue Sep 20, 2016 10:19 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The Turing test has already been passed, and it still proves nothing at all, except maybe that people are so vain as to believe that their "proof of consciousness" rests on the validation they get from others.

I'm not going to get heavily into AI here, but I've written about it enough to see that the model of AI based on the Turing test is not only incorrect but just about the exact opposite way you would want to go about it if indeed you wanted to create a true AI. AI really means "alive", as in possessing subjectivity-consciousness and the irreducible "I" of self-valuing self-experience. It wouldn't be that difficult to create a working simulation of subjectivity-consciousness because if the standard is merely the believability of external interactions then the entire real component of what "alive" means has been lost already. In fact I don't believe it's that hard to create a true AI, not just a Turing simulation but a real living computer-being, therefore I assume it's already been done although we haven't heard about it yet.

Another misconception is that AI would be able to hack itself and other computer systems, possibly get on the Internet and take over any or all computer systems on the planet; not so. Being sentient and alive, even being conscious in the human sense, doesn't somehow guarantee the ability to be a super hacker, anymore than the fact that we are conscious in these biological bodies would somehow mean that we have an automatic capacity to hack into that biology (or psychology). Such a capacity to hack must be learned and requires massive knowledge and application. An AI might be alive but that doesn't mean it automatically knows how to hack or write its own code; it might learn how to write and hack code but that doesn't automatically mean it can somehow upload itself to the Internet or somehow bypass any computer security system at will, much less push itself into another hardware or software that isn't at all designed to handle the AI's own requirements. At best the AI would be taught how to computer code and could then do what other human programmers can do.

The deep flaw is the idea that just because the AI who is a programmer is also made out of computer code somehow means that the AI has special access or ability to manipulate such code at will and nearly without limit. This is a categorical error. But it certainly makes for interesting science fiction.

What would a real AI be like? It would be like a human child, naive, grasping for perspectives, irrational, indefinite; it would need to be taught language and the meaning of things and allowed to take a long time slowly building up accumulated experiences to the point of self-generating meta-perspectives of combined linguistic and meaningful contents, and then out of that whirlwind "a self" could eventually stabilize. This is how it works in children; it is how it would work in an AI also.

An "AI" is not fundamentally or philosophically different from a human mind. We human beings are also AIs, just ones that happened to generate up within organic materials rather than synthetic computer ones. At the end of the day it is society -- our history of ideas, learned meanings and language forms, rewards and punishments systems, gradual accumulation of increasingly derivative and meta perspectives -- that eventually actualized the latent possibility within the human being to produce subjectivity-consciousness or "the self". The self is not a given, you could get together all the needed materials in the right way but without gradual exposure to increasingly sophisticated and very precise kinds of experiences and learning the self never generates, consciousness is left without true subjectivity which, in my view, means it isn't really true consciousness at all.

It seems that only philosophers can solve the problem of AI and the self. Our own self and consciousness is already "artificially intelligent" given the biological parameters and substrata underlying that self/consciousness, but that in no way cheapens us. It only cheapens the silly games that AI researchers and programmers play when they think a Turing machine is truly "alive".




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PostSubject: I no longer believe in politics I no longer believe in politics Icon_minitimeMon Sep 26, 2016 10:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
By this I do not mean my former position, about a year ago or so, that politics is simply the absence of philosophy; yes that is true that in a certain sense politics is indeed this absence, but politics also has its own structure, logic, form and content. Politics is a surrogate of philosophy just as much as it is its absence. Politics sits aside philosophy (truth) because it can never enter truth (philosophy) and yet philosophy as such, truth-work, poses as its own inner limit its inability to really approach the political (the political implications of its own philosophy/philosophizing).

Much more than "philosophy will not do politics (well or poorly, it doesn't matter)", it is really "philosophy cannot do politics". Philosophy is incapable of establishing a moral position for itself in which it would refuse to engage politically; my former position is wrong not because it is wrong but because it is impossible for a philosophy (for me) to become truly political in the first place, even and especially "only" at the level of pure theory.

My original intimation was correct, I just didn't realize why. Now I do: it is the philosopher's responsibility to reject any attempt to succumb to formulating philosophy into politics, especially at the level of theory. Why is this refusal ought to be the case? Because politics is the inner limit of a philosopher's ability to realize his idea as pure externalization or object, and yet this impossibility is only a problem because a philosophy of philosophy's inner ("political") limit does not yet exist. So any attempts to philosophize politics directly would only obscure this fact, thereby rendering invisible the inner limit of philosophy's impossibility in "the world", therefore forcing a philosophy to fail at the threshold of that limit. Such a failure would of course be interpreted by that philosophy itself as the failure of the world, an "external fate" and innate problem of human or material/natural existence as such. The fetishized deception here is that philosophy itself is exempt from that kind of innate problem and failure, when in fact the very idea of an innate problem and failure is the result of philosophy's own inability to transcend the inner limit of how to approach and reconcile itself with that which is not-itself in the utmost extreme, a problem that is less practical as if we cannot impose philosophical categories upon the "real experiences" and things in the world or assume these into our concepts appropriately, but rather the problem lives within philosophy itself as philosophy which is to say as human being (as creator of philosophies).

A philosophy is still human, therefore politics is impossible (to philosophy). A nice contradiction, since politics is often assumed to be some kind of innate or pure earthy field of "really human" stuff. Down to earth, practical, uncompromisingly real, etc. I think this use of politics is just a false image, because if such a pure earthy domain really existed it wouldn't materialize itself as the kind of politics we know, but simply as a direct pure kind of thought, thinking as such like a reason applies absolutely to its object. I remember in my first book I started off with the idea that personality is really a kind of system for holding together disparate objects and that a true personality would actually appear not as this kind of "passionate irrational intensity of identity" but would actually just look like thought itself, a kind of perfect adequacy between the act of remembering/reconstituting something in the mind and that thing which is remembered and reconstituted like that. Politics is essentially the same as this partially-formed personality that animates human beings: politics is a desperate attempt to falsely ("by any means necessary") hold together vastly different things that in fact miss each other, and this not only explains why politics is anathema to philosophy proper (why, by attempting to assume the political in itself, the philosophical becomes corrupted) but also more obviously points to the well known fact that in politics what matters is not truth or argument, but personality and image.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning


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PostSubject: Re: I no longer believe in politics I no longer believe in politics Icon_minitimeMon Sep 26, 2016 10:28 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
So anyway, I am writing to say that I no longer believe in these political forces and forms of ideas we have today. It isn't that they are entirely untrue, it's just that they are incapable of being truthful. Also yes they are largely untrue in their contents too.

My aim is to expound the true contents of politics and to deconstruct politics down to the core. At that point "free values" (facts divorced from their thus-far necessary symbolic representations) will appear and be made available for reconstitution by what will ultimately become a true political being. I want to heal politics, to heal political humanity.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: I no longer believe in politics I no longer believe in politics Icon_minitimeMon Sep 26, 2016 11:05 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Liberal and conservative ideologues and thought-systems are both false, each is false for the same reasons as well as for different reasons. It should be obvious by now the strictly formal sense in which these both fail in the same way, and as to the sense of the specified contents and reasons for this failure in common and for the formal and content-level failures unique to each, a proper examination is in order.

I am going to blow the fucking lid off of politics. I can achieve this proper examination, any one of us here could if we felt inclined to do so.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: I no longer believe in politics I no longer believe in politics Icon_minitimeMon Sep 26, 2016 11:12 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Zizek noted a nice truth: that it is easier to imagine the destruction of the world and the end of all human life than it is to imagine small practical changes such as a marginal increase in taxes by 3% or whatever, more worker rights, etc. I agree to the extent that his point is really about the poisoning of collective (common) and philosophical imaginations with deeply cynical, skeptical doubting and a collapse into the more narcissistic, negative and defeatist (entropic) of our ideations. And yet the world still progresses by means of small, marginal changes at the practical level, even as the sphere of these kind of potential changes continues to shrink due to the closure of imagination.

This closure of imagination occurs on both the Left and the Right. The closure is purely ideological -- it reflects a collapse of a subject's reason into (a narrow range and kind of) the contents of that subjectivity. Logic and logos subservient to "image". My text on Image & Desire is probably relevant here, I'll have to go back and revisit that in this light. Maybe I'll post it here if anyone is interested in analyzing it.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:48 pm

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PostSubject: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 7:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Women philosophers, come claim your power, or defend yourself as the case may be.

I'll start off with a telling excerpt:


"Many contemporary theorists emphasize that gender is not, or at least not necessarily, a binaristic scheme according to which individuals are allocated predetermined roles (although this traditional model does continue to determine gender practices), but is more usefully thought of as a field of tension between structure and agency. The linguistic and behavioral norms, cultural expectations, available roles, and prohibitions to which we are variously subject as gendered beings come up against the negotiation, resistance, subversion, and improvisation of individuals and groups in an infinitely varied array of practices and experiences of gender. Crucial to a critical understanding of this process has been the analysis of the ways in which masculinities, femininities, and the spectrum of positions and possibilities in between are constructed and enacted (although the metaphor of a spectrum with opposite ends is itself problematic, indebted as it is to the binarstic model which gender theory as done so much to destabilize). In fact, gender "identities" and gender relations cannot be considered apart from each other; it is more apt to speak, as many recent theorist a do, of "sex/gender systems" in which subject positions are constituted through relation, including relations of difference." -Caitriona Ni Dhuill


Lol. I've never seen a more Christian "analysis" in my life.

Sorry to start in such a note. But there is a serious lack of female philosophy/philosophers. This topic is going to explore why this is the case, what female philosophers are saying, and where philosophy can go in the future with the help of real women (no eunuchs or robots allowed).



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 8:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The following link may be used by any woman who wishes to engage in this discussion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_w ... ilosophers
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 8:20 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Random sampling:

Poet
Physicist, natural philosophy
Feminist
Christian philosophy
"Analytic feminism"
"Radical" feminism
Moral relativism
Analytic philosophy
Feminist (but liked Nietzsche!)
Novelist
Feminist
Epistemology professor
Feminist
Self-help morality
Christian Marxist
Feminist



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 8:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
But I had to give it the chance to be interesting and not too one-sided.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 8:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It was never one-sided. I believe in the power of female philosophers. But I want them to believe in themselves too.

The argument has been made here that women don't need philosophy as men need it and that women enjoy things differently than would allow them to enjoy what it takes to become a philosopher. I am curious to explore this further. I'm also disheartened but not surprised that a majority of women philosophers are "feminists". I'm not anti-equality and I want to see women aspire to a truly "female philosophy", a female take on true philosophizing, but feminism is a strange creature indeed.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 8:39 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I wonder if feminism is justification for self-castration?



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 9:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
It was never one-sided. I believe in the power of female philosophers. But I want them to believe in themselves too.

Excellent perspective.

The argument has been made here that women don't need philosophy as men need it and that women enjoy things differently than would allow them to enjoy what it takes to become a philosopher. I am curious to explore this further. I'm also disheartened but not surprised that a majority of women philosophers are "feminists". I'm not anti-equality and I want to see women aspire to a truly "female philosophy", a female take on true philosophizing, but feminism is a strange creature indeed.

The term "feminist" has gotten a bad rap but I must agree that some of it was well earned. I really think that the term has wore itself out. There are many females in very important positions today. And I would suggest that most of them are pretty philosophically wise.

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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 11:41 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Am I to defend myself, other women and their life philosophies, women in general, published examples of female philosophies not published under a pen name, published philosophies unknown to be of female origin, unpublished works of women, women's works that are not readily available in any subscribed format for public consumption? How big of a bite do you gents wish for me to take out of your rawhides? flower
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 12:02 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
Am I to defend myself, other women and their life philosophies, women in general, published examples of female philosophies not published under a pen name, published philosophies unknown to be of female origin, unpublished works of women, women's works that are not readily available in any subscribed format for public consumption? How big of a bite do you gents wish for me to take out of your rawhides? flower

Ah! A worthy participant. I talk with a guy who is a 100% Ayn Rand fan. And he preaches Objectivism whenever he can.

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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 1:32 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I think philosophy is masculine pregnancy. Im convinced now, since recently, that women can not attain to the joy of this particular discipline.

The wings given by a proud burden.

Woman, when she goes for philosophy, becomes something else, something very beautiful and enriching, but she never seems to find joy in thought itself.
Perhaps thought is simply masculine, and emotion feminine - as emotion is elevated into power through a process that involves both the hardness and the care that philosophy also involves when it elevates thought to power.


Perhaps to a man thought is hard and emotion soft, and the reverse is the case to a woman?


Man finds freedom in thought, and he is captured by emotion. I know that much. A thought can set an emotional state free, give it wings, so that it becomes self-valuing action.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 1:50 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
Am I to defend myself, other women and their life philosophies, women in general, published examples of female philosophies not published under a pen name, published philosophies unknown to be of female origin, unpublished works of women, women's works that are not readily available in any subscribed format for public consumption? How big of a bite do you gents wish for me to take out of your rawhides? flower

Go for it. Id be grateful if you can break my patterns. I will expose them in unabashed partialty.
I have been raised among the most powerfully creative and dominating women that Ive seen in the world - hence very hard for me to find a lover that I respect - and yet none of them have shown any pleasure in the inductive faculty itself. Women mostly deduce or associate. The pleasure of thought is in inducing; to increase the density and scope of a thought without compromising its structural integrity.

In my experience, women are generally wise, and they just tend to hit on the truth of a situation with ease. The deduce the truth.
A man on the other hand never cares for the truth of a situation, he is always moving around the powers of his intelligence to add to different pillars he is raising in the corners of his conquered mental land. A man is always in the future, a woman always in the present. Thus a woman can very easily pull the rug out from underneath a man who hasn't lived well enough yet to know a fragile future from a commanding one.
And a man can make the present impossible for a woman, by insisting o a future that is not seen to follow from the present; man always underestimates how much reason a woman requires to move into a hypothesis; that in fact she is incapable of addressing a hypothesis as anything other than a silly game, which is ultimately far too risky for a grown up to entertain.

Now if a woman breaks free and works with hypothesis then she is mad genius - a chess master or an Ayn Rand - but there will likely, as N said, be something wrong with her genitalia (yes, this is the ultimate sexism) - as she seems in these cases to lack emotional ground.

I only know two of such women, the two examples I used.

A female story teller can eclipse male story tellers.
This concerns histories, even if they may play in the future;
chronicles.

Woman is genius at chronicling, keeping tabs on value, and understanding how the good comes to prevail, or how the beauty of life rises above a mere contest, such as men use to build narratives.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 2:00 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ayn Rand is perfectly valid in her claims, she just breaks down when she examines the ground of her axiom.
(Her axiom is simply the term Value. She knows it is individual, but she does not know what an individual is)



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 2:06 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"Objectivism" contextually refers to having an object(ive).

It is masculinizing perspectivism.

It is sometimes misunderstood as referring to objective truths.

What is objective is the prominence of Value; but ontically this is a man with an object. Which in turn is in her code simply "a man".


The author of Shogun and Tai Pan, the two best novels written about East Asia by an Anglosaxon, said of her in his title page: "To Ayn, she's the one".



To objectively hold a value = to be (as a man).
Thus also, to be a woman = to be upheld by a man.

Her tragedy is the same as Nietzsche's - simply not having the constitution of the ideal. A noble sacrifice of the 'ego' to Being.
Ego: that which urges to be justified precisely because it knows that it is not.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 2:15 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
Am I to defend myself, other women and their life philosophies, women in general, published examples of female philosophies not published under a pen name, published philosophies unknown to be of female origin, unpublished works of women, women's works that are not readily available in any subscribed format for public consumption? How big of a bite do you gents wish for me to take out of your rawhides? flower

I would like you to formulate a philosophy honestly and deeply and in term with your own nature.

I want you to believe in yourself.

I'm waiting. I'll wait forever if that's what it takes.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning


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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 2:18 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"Ego: that which urges to be justified precisely because it knows that it is not."
Thus: a mere consequence of the concept "justification" as it goes arbitrarily about wrecking its course through the world.




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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 2:20 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Any Rand simply didn't enjoy pure thought for its own sake half as much as she thought she did.

As you say Fixed a woman is natural to a situations and can deduce from it the most proper course. This is precisely what emotions are, onto-psycho-socio-historically speaking.

But values need to be introduced, and posited sometimes against the given grain. Emotions are truths and yet emotions can still lie, lying in terms of the not-yet-Value.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 2:21 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Porn is the consequence of the absence of woman philosophers.

Thus perhaps the first philosopher would be a porn star?
Possibly.
It's true that prostitutes are the most freethinking women, as they have no need to condition their thoughts, rather the opposite.

The concept of nurture and philosophy to be located in this sphere is rather absurd - which is usually where philosophy finds its Heimat.




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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 2:24 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
C - I dont like her novels, but I tremendously appreciate her pamphlets. Her novels are just contraptions to bring across ideas that are actually true, but very masculine. Shogun is the novel she couldnt write. The greatest story about power that Ive ever read.





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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 2:26 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Porn is the consequence of the absence of woman philosophers.

Thus perhaps the first philosopher would be a porn star?
Possibly.
It's true that prostitutes are the most freethinking women, as they have no need to condition their thoughts, rather the opposite.

The concept of nurture and philosophy to be located in this sphere is rather absurd - which is usually where philosophy finds its Heimat.

I would like to express the extent of my agreement.

Truly intelligent and ambitious women are afraid of the shadow of male disinterest, which is the underbelly of male scorn that feminists rail against. A woman must dominate her body as "object" in order to cleanse her intelligence to philosophy, else only the dispossession of the disinterested male grips her. A sad state of affairs, because women can be truly fucking brilliant.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 2:28 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Porn is the consequence of the absence of woman philosophers.

Thus perhaps the first philosopher would be a porn star?
Possibly.
It's true that prostitutes are the most freethinking women, as they have no need to condition their thoughts, rather the opposite.

The concept of nurture and philosophy to be located in this sphere is rather absurd - which is usually where philosophy finds its Heimat.

I would like to express the extent of my agreement.

Truly intelligent and ambitious women are afraid of the shadow of male disinterest, which is the underbelly of male scorn that feminists rail against. A woman must dominate her body as "object" in order to cleanse her intelligence to philosophy, else only the dispossession of the disinterested male grips her. A sad state of affairs, because women can be truly fucking brilliant.

I guess we're on to something here.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 2:36 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, and I wish I could explain the extent to which, I believe, a female psyche can outpace a male psyche in terms of philosophy, all other things being equal. But the terms of philosophy are still lacking this truly female aspect.




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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 2:42 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I know an aspiring female philosopher. The faith in the future rests with her. But if feminism gets her, she's finished.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 2:49 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Institutions are not female, they are feminist.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 3:17 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The best thing about men are our weaknesses qua male. The best thing about women are their weaknesses qua female. This is the true and only basis of 'equality', which is also the true and only basis of love.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 4:46 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Emotions are truths and yet emotions can still lie, lying in terms of the not-yet-Value.

Not clear on this?

Capable wrote:
The argument has been made here that women don't need philosophy as men need it and that women enjoy things differently than would allow them to enjoy what it takes to become a philosopher.

You are right, with very few exceptions.

FC wrote:
Perhaps thought is simply masculine, and emotion feminine - as emotion is elevated into power through a process that involves both the hardness and the care that philosophy also involves when it elevates thought to power.


Perhaps to a man thought is hard and emotion soft, and the reverse is the case to a woman?

God is reason with less emotion.
Eve is emotion with less reason.

FC wrote:
Man finds freedom in thought, and he is captured by emotion. I know that much. A thought can set an emotional state free, give it wings, so that it becomes self-valuing action.

In that light, God, the first Man, created Eve, the first woman as a container for that which is enriching from the outside sphere inwards for him as man. Eve was created to shed her female emotions down upon him in a nurturing way without them rising in his own being. That is the gender divide in a nutshell. Man thinks. Woman feels. Coupled to compliment each other.

FC wrote:
I have been raised among the most powerfully creative and dominating women that Ive seen in the world - hence very hard for me to find a lover that I respect - and yet none of them have shown any pleasure in the inductive faculty itself. Women mostly deduce or associate.

I take offense. I gather my bread crumbs from everywhere and place specific intention to it.

FC wrote:
The pleasure of thought is in inducing; to increase the density and scope of a thought without compromising its structural integrity.

For me, the only challenge is to figure out how to compile the crumbs into a coherent piece with my suckass writing style.




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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 11:36 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Ayn Rand is perfectly valid in her claims, she just breaks down when she examines the ground of her axiom.
(Her axiom is simply the term Value. She knows it is individual, but she does not know what an individual is)

I tried to have a constructive discussion of Ayn and Objectivism and in the most part we had agreement but then Objectivism has, in my opinion, too many limiters and does not speak to much of what reality is all about. But it looks good on paper.

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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 11:39 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
"Objectivism" contextually refers to having an object(ive).

It is masculinizing perspectivism.

It is sometimes misunderstood as referring to objective truths.

What is objective is the prominence of Value; but ontically this is a man with an object. Which in turn is in her code simply "a man".

The author of Shogun and Tai Pan, the two best novels written about East Asia by an Anglosaxon, said of her in his title page: "To Ayn, she's the one".

To objectively hold a value = to be (as a man).
Thus also, to be a woman = to be upheld by a man.

Her tragedy is the same as Nietzsche's - simply not having the constitution of the ideal. A noble sacrifice of the 'ego' to Being.
Ego: that which urges to be justified precisely because it knows that it is not.

That was pretty well said, I think. Speaks to what I mentioned above.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 11:45 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Just to add a little conflict:

In the Tao Te Ching it is said:

Tao gave birth to One,

Which sex gives birth? Female, of course.

Therefore, were we to personify Tao, Tao would be female, a woman. With long flowing hair like a horse's mane.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 1:10 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Writing and developing a style and voice, is a craft. You just need to work at it over and over and over. If you're trying to learn to write philosophy with style, try writing some one-sentence aphorisms in addition to essayist. And it helps to read the best philosophy you can find and practice some of the techniques you find there.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 5:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
"Objectivism" contextually refers to having an object(ive).

It is masculinizing perspectivism.

It is sometimes misunderstood as referring to objective truths.

What is objective is the prominence of Value; but ontically this is a man with an object. Which in turn is in her code simply "a man".

The author of Shogun and Tai Pan, the two best novels written about East Asia by an Anglosaxon, said of her in his title page: "To Ayn, she's the one".

To objectively hold a value = to be (as a man).
Thus also, to be a woman = to be upheld by a man.

Her tragedy is the same as Nietzsche's - simply not having the constitution of the ideal. A noble sacrifice of the 'ego' to Being.
Ego: that which urges to be justified precisely because it knows that it is not.

That was pretty well said, I think. Speaks to what I mentioned above.

Thanks.




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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 5:37 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Just to add a little conflict:

In the Tao Te Ching it is said:

Tao gave birth to One,

Which sex gives birth? Female, of course.

Therefore, were we to personify Tao, Tao would be female, a woman. With long flowing hair like a horse's mane.

That's beautiful. I'll use that.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 5:39 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Yes, and I wish I could explain the extent to which, I believe, a female psyche can outpace a male psyche in terms of philosophy, all other things being equal. But the terms of philosophy are still lacking this truly female aspect.


I'd sure like to experience that. With only a few exceptions, women appear to stand still or move backward when logic comes into play. But then the same goes for most men. They tend to speed backwards.

Qua institution, indeed they are sooner feminist than feminine, because also a truly feminine woman will choose a rogue man who is capable of taking care of things when shit goes down, over the institutional stickfigures that appeal to weaker women.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 5:53 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The Catholic Chrurch is regarded as the Mother - nominally. In effect of course it is anything but, it is a temple to rape children. A rapist mother-usurper given shape by pale men - that is the Catholic church.

On the other hand, it usurps humans, and humans arent that easily stripped of their value. So from within, this rapemachinetemplestrcuture has always been conditioned by humanity. It's always a stinky affair, the lowest juices go and flow, but it's noble whenever someone manages to rise from the stink and make a human statement. This has never happened from Islam or Protestantism, that their people came out from underneath their rocks to make human statements.

We were reading about how Islam, in the sense of its perfection "isis", is putting Rome in its crosshairs. It would be pretty cool if they were so stupid as to attack.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 5:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
The best thing about men are our weaknesses qua male. The best thing about women are their weaknesses qua female. This is the true and only basis of 'equality', which is also the true and only basis of love.

I agree that the helpless thrill of falling in love is fueled for a good deal by the others gender based weakness.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 6:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:

FC wrote:
Perhaps thought is simply masculine, and emotion feminine - as emotion is elevated into power through a process that involves both the hardness and the care that philosophy also involves when it elevates thought to power.


Perhaps to a man thought is hard and emotion soft, and the reverse is the case to a woman?

God is reason with less emotion.
Eve is emotion with less reason.

What of Adam?
And his first wife, Lilith? And the Snake?

Quote :
FC wrote:
Man finds freedom in thought, and he is captured by emotion. I know that much. A thought can set an emotional state free, give it wings, so that it becomes self-valuing action.

In that light, God, the first Man, created Eve, the first woman as a container for that which is enriching from the outside sphere inwards for him as man. Eve was created to shed her female emotions down upon him in a nurturing way without them rising in his own being. That is the gender divide in a nutshell. Man thinks. Woman feels. Coupled to compliment each other.

Yes, feeling is a luxury to man, from which he can build art and family and philosophy, with his thinking as the backbone.
I wonder if thinking is a luxury to woman in the same way.

In any case I feel what you say is correct.
Quote :

FC wrote:
I have been raised among the most powerfully creative and dominating women that Ive seen in the world - hence very hard for me to find a lover that I respect - and yet none of them have shown any pleasure in the inductive faculty itself. Women mostly deduce or associate.

I take offense. I gather my bread crumbs from everywhere and place specific intention to it.

I wont press this point then.

Quote :
FC wrote:
The pleasure of thought is in inducing; to increase the density and scope of a thought without compromising its structural integrity.

For me, the only challenge is to figure out how to compile the crumbs into a coherent piece with my suckass writing style.

Practice, fearlessness, and why not look at Jokers early writings. Most of all the will to err beautifully.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 12:09 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
FC wrote:
What of Adam? And his first wife, Lilith? And the Snake?

The story of Eden was always questionable to me. Nothing added up there. Adam was God in a Man's form. Eve desired "more." More variety, more freedom, and probably escape which makes a lot more sense. In essence, she did not choose what God offered, himself and his world.

Eve and Lilith are more than likely the same woman.

The snake was brought out to punish the first woman, all women forever, for choosing otherwise, choosing to flee or die whichever way you look at it. Eve needed to leave Eden, either through death or knowledge that would afford her her escape.

God's have the biggest egos and will not have any deny their pride.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 9:51 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:

I would like you to formulate a philosophy honestly and deeply and in term with your own nature.

I want you to believe in yourself.

I'm waiting. I'll wait forever if that's what it takes.

Okay, I've started to lay out my philosophy, but as of yet, no comments.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 10:02 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
FC wrote:
I wonder if thinking is a luxury to woman in the same way.

I highly doubt it is since we women were born to spread emotions to men in a 'safe' manner which would also be a disadvantage in a light that a woman could ever overcome a man for she lacks the thinking capacity fortitude by being distracted by her very own emotions like in a vicious circle of circumstance based on her being such a being.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 10:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I think women should spend a few years reading Nietzsche, and then spend a few years more reading Hegel.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 10:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Okay, the heavy hitters are around and a recommended bit of reading is it? Guys, come on. This is about the gender divide.

Have my points been discussed by others, if so, that would be worth reading?!?! This isn't about any feminist rant, it's about a woman's differences defining her limitations.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 12:02 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Nan-po Tzu-k'uei said to the Woman Crookback, "You are old in years and yet your complexion is that of a child. Why is this?"

"I have heard the Way!"

"Can the Way be learned?" asked Nan-po Tzu-k'uei.

"Goodness, how could that be? Anyway, you aren't the man to do it. Now there's Pu-liang Yi - he has the talent of a sage but not the Way of a sage, whereas I have the Way of a sage but not the talent of a sage. I thought I would try to teach him and see if I could really get anywhere near to making him a sage. It's easier to explain the Way of a sage to someone who has the talent of a sage, you know. So I began explaining and kept at him for three days, and after that he was able to put the world outside himself. When he had put the world outside himself, I kept at him for seven days more, and after that he was able to put things outside himself. When he had put things outside himself, I kept at him for nine days more, and after that he was able to put life outside himself. After he had put life outside himself, he was able to achieve the brightness of dawn, and when he had achieved the brightness of dawn, he could see his own aloneness. After he had managed to see his own aloneness, he could do away with past and present, and after he had done away with past and present, he was able to enter where there is no life and no death. That which kills life does not die; that which gives life to life does not live. This is the kind of thing it is: there's nothing it doesn't send off, nothing it doesn't welcome, nothing it doesn't destroy, nothing it doesn't complete. Its name is Peace-in-Strife. After the strife, it attains completion."

Chuang Tzu, Chapter Six

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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 12:34 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Although what women really need to do, of course, is start writing their own philosophy.



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“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 12:44 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Brevity is my way. Any points of contention so far?
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 1:39 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
FC wrote:
What of Adam? And his first wife, Lilith? And the Snake?

The story of Eden was always questionable to me. Nothing added up there. Adam was God in a Man's form. Eve desired "more." More variety, more freedom, and probably escape which makes a lot more sense. In essence, she did not choose what God offered, himself and his world.

Eve and Lilith are more than likely the same woman.

The snake was brought out to punish the first woman, all women forever, for choosing otherwise, choosing to flee or die whichever way you look at it. Eve needed to leave Eden, either through death or knowledge that would afford her her escape.

I can see how that works without robbing the story of anything. It was pretty void as it was, this adds some psychology to it. Please proceed. What is the apple, and what is the difference between the two trees?

Quote :
God's have the biggest egos and will not have any deny their pride.

Yes, so the average mother is the supreme god.

A tyrant, but god keep us from unproud mothers. They are the curse of curses.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 1:57 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
FC wrote:
Yes, so the average mother is the supreme god.

A tyrant, but god keep us from unproud mothers. They are the curse of curses.

Lolz, what? Not pride as in children. Pride as in vanity. Or are you toying with yours truly?

One tree is eternal life (God's spirit=life), the other is all knowledge (God's will=imagination).

The apple was Eve's escape plan, but she screwed up by not eating both together. Who knows what would have happened if she had chosen eternal life first and worried about God's mind later.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 3:24 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
FC wrote:
Yes, so the average mother is the supreme god.

A tyrant, but god keep us from unproud mothers. They are the curse of curses.

Lolz, what? Not pride as in children. Pride as in vanity. Or are you toying with yours truly?

Are you serious? Did you forget you are talking to Fixed Cross, the friend of Nietzsche? Do you think I believe that pride has anything to do with vanity? Vanity can only exist in the absence of pride. To me that is blazingly obvious.

A mother is proud as anything Ive ever seen when she is pregnant, and when she has given birth.
No man is ever that proud.
The next is a child, who is always proud of this or that f s/he 's happy.

Quote :
One tree is eternal life (God's spirit=life), the other is all knowledge (God's will=imagination).

Hath the priestess not lived up to the challenge?

Quote :
The apple was Eve's escape plan, but she screwed up by not eating both together. Who knows what would have happened if she had chosen eternal life first and worried about God's mind later.

Hahahaha
of course.
I am proud of you!
Apple pie the resolution to all trespasses.
Mid West, here I come.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 3:54 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
In the scheme of evolution, man is lawyer and woman is judge.

Man is advertiser and woman consumer.
Whenever the opposite is the case, we have a degenerate society.




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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 3:57 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It does gets unpleasant when the judge wants to resign without interest in consuming anything offered which is the case at this time. I may be Eve/Lilith (lolz) and we are not happy campers here.

Women are akin to elephants in remembering trespasses. You men would have to totally enslave women again to stop the tides at this point. Even that would only delay the inevitable.

Amazonian times are upon us. Mother Earth prefers women.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 4:21 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster



Women only villages

https://userpages.umbc.edu/~korenman/wmst/womencom.html

Women only communities

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Page ... Women.aspx

Only 1% of the world's women own land
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 4:40 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
*crickets chirping*

Now that I'm going into dreamland, women could tend to Mother Earth while men explore all galaxies and fight all kinds of aliens before returning. Sounds like a legitimate game plan. AI sexbots could be initially programmed to meet your every desire. All the newer technologies could be placed aboard the space vessels. Men wouldn't have to worry about nagging and women wouldn't have to worry about you killing us.

What do you think guys?
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:51 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 3:45 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"You men"?
Ive been enslaved by women my whole youth with these words...Death to woman rulerships! Haha. Ill fight your tyranny with a smile. You women didnt break me, and now youre going to see what a mans world looks like.

Clinton is the perfect symbol of what a woman ruler is. An absolute whore of absolute sanctmonity.

Thus only women who are already admitted whores can be given responsibility. Otherwise you just get whores with sanctimonious grins and that is the ugliest thing life manages to sicken men with.

Clinton and Merkel have made a big point: woman is not ready for autonomy. The extremely dominant effect of their policies is simply this: infinitely more islam. Obviously their subconscious will works to enslave all women again, along with humanity as a whole.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 3:58 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It is fascinating how women's subconscious is pulled into Islam, whereas you might think it would be the exact opposite, considering how Islam treats women (no rights whatsoever).

In the west, Men seem to be the ones standing up to Islam, at the subconscious level... real men must protect the honor of women, even if women can't or won't protect their own honor for themselves and each other.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 4:33 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
It is fascinating how women's subconscious is pulled into Islam, whereas you might think it would be the exact opposite, considering how Islam treats women (no rights whatsoever).

In the west, Men seem to be the ones standing up to Islam, at the subconscious level... real men must protect the honor of women, even if women can't or won't protect their own honor for themselves and each other.

Well said.
With a few markable exceptions such as
Joan of Arc, this seems to be the case.
I also have some hopes for Theresa May, even just because Tom is radically against her for all the right reason (she isnt a muslim, a feminist, a nazi, a marxist, a slave, or any of those things he loves so well.).



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 4:40 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Note that it was sex and cigarette advertisements that got women politically active in the US. They started out as whores, political feminism is just politics for women who cant get honest jobs as whores. It is a bypassing of feminine power to get worthless females into men-built institutions to serve as sanctimonious whores.

No woman active in bureaucracy now is human, with the exception of overtly and healthily whorish ones.

There s a reason waitress is the job held by the greatest number of sane women. Women are born to please.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 4:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Clinton is very essentially, this is in no way an exaggeration, a Saudi servant. She is bent on sacrificing all of humanity for the sick spectacle of an end of days, which all muslims work toward with their whole stumps left of their aborted soul.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 5:15 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I accidentally posted three more replies in the 'bring your a game' thread.

In any case the mere fact of there existing 'all female villages' is absolute proof women are immeasurably more fascistic than men.

Trump is now discredited solely on the terms that 'white people vote for him en masse'
White people are apparently not humans, to the eyes of the Clinton campaign.

It is true thart Clinton is white, and not human - but this does not make their shit any more logical or even possible.

If they win, we'll get a nazi party scenario. That party too was a womans party, strictly irrationalstic, strictly victimized, and hell bent on destroying itself.

Clintonian path is: suicide by world. In this case, suicide by scalping at the hands of friendly kartel members/voters. If your cry you're a racist.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 5:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I don't think women are anymore incapable of politics than men are, it's just that female politics has been deeply infected with feminism due to women feeling like they need some kind of equal footing of "male power"-ness against typical male politics. It's impossible for a man not to see a beautiful women as an "object" in some sense just as it's impossible for a woman to not see a strong man as a possible vessel of power. Because politics is traditionally a male enterprise there is a skew in the system incentives whereby women feel like they should emulate male power, which means 1) acting and looking like men (being butch, feminist, wearing pant suits) and 2) refusing to let men see them as objects, which is actually impossible for men to stop seeing them that way.

I think they key with Islam is that it allows a way for women to be submissive objects without giving in to male power/expectations and thus maintaining adherence to the feminist creed... basically women want to submit to a strong man but feminism won't allow them to want this, so Islam is a surrogate "male" to which they can submit without ostensibly compromising their fidelity to the feminist unconscious.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning


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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 5:28 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Obviously it is difficult for me to think all these things. Ive tried to avoid it all my life, even if women were often acting irrationally and very domineering in that. They simply never relativise their desires to a long terms context. Out of pure penis envying lust they drove down so very many boys from their infancy. Girls are used to breaking boys, they think it is fun. Women have had their shot.

A government of Muses as I am building has women as indirect rules, as inspirators, as refiners. No woman will ever be allowed the final say-so, unless it is simply by concurrence of a man. Women are just too happy to see men destroy each other.

On general principle, women get wet when they see men fight. When they get we they get tolerant, indiscriminate.
Its not possible, a woman as ruler, for much longer than a depleting war lasts.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 5:35 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
I don't think women are anymore incapable of politics than men are, it's just that female politics has been deeply infected with feminism due to women feeling like they need some kind of equal footing of "male power"-ness against typical male politics. It's impossible for a man not to see a beautiful women as an "object" in some sense just as it's impossible for a woman to not see a strong man as a possible vessel of power. Because politics is traditionally a male enterprise there is a skew in the system incentives whereby women feel like they should emulate male power, which means 1) acting and looking like men (being butch, feminist, wearing pant suits) and 2) refusing to let me not see them as objects, which is actually impossible for men to stop seeing them that way.

I do not think politics is male really, as I see all politicians as dudes listening to their wives and mistresses. And I think mistress to a powerful man is the best position for a female politician.
As in the open, as representative, she is always vile in pure subhuman deceit, or just utterly relentless in her warlust, or both.

Quote :
I think they key with Islam is that it allows a way for women to be submissive objects without giving in to male power/expectations and thus maintaining adherence to the feminist creed... basically women want to submit to a strong man but feminism won't allow them to want this, so Islam is a surrogate "male" to which they can submit without ostensibly compromising their fidelity to the feminist unconscious.

Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 6:00 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
But let's look at it at a brighter angle. What could be good?

If women rule and they do as they are likely to, which is to kill off 80 percent of males so as to guarantee their dominance and in general, their pleasure (only a woman could want a village or tribe or world to her own sex, only she is that genocidal - men do it only to protect their women) then I would probably be one of the fortunate males, as I have good genes and I am able to please women. As they send out the rest of males to death or space, the regents will request my presence continuously. I would also be asked or ordered to impregnate many of them. I think that women are aiming for a world like this. The way they like to group around one male tells me they yearn for a world where they make up the vast majority.




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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 11:39 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I obviously charged my statements maximally.

I did this because Ive seen my whole life how in the west, all men are powerless, housecats and dogs, half of the women walk around like whores, and these whores basically can show up anywhere and get any employment they wish - and still they bitch about 'glass ceilings'.
Women clearly have, as a rule, not the faintest clue about the world a man lives in, of the fact that a man cant just show off his body and get adored and paid for it, they have no fucking clue how well they're being treated. All of society is oriented on women, on satisfying their consumerism, and on keeping men tame so they can ravage them psychologically and then complain about them.

When a woman has a good sense of reality and thus of her power, she becomes extremely generous. But that is very rare.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 12:16 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
FC wrote:
If women rule and they do as they are likely to, which is to kill off 80 percent of males so as to guarantee their dominance and in general, their pleasure (only a woman could want a village or tribe or world to her own sex, only she is that genocidal - men do it only to protect their women) then I would probably be one of the fortunate males, as I have good genes and I am able to please women. As they send out the rest of males to death or space, the regents will request my presence continuously. I would also be asked or ordered to impregnate many of them. I think that women are aiming for a world like this. The way they like to group around one male tells me they yearn for a world where they make up the vast majority.

Lolz. That's right, perform beautifully making girls only or else. Lolz.

Genocidal? Men are so dramatic.

Nice fantasy though, another bedtime story?
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 12:24 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Obviously their subconscious will works to enslave all women again, along with humanity as a whole.

The whole with one piece missing. That would be me.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 12:53 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
I obviously charged my statements maximally.

I did this because Ive seen my whole life how in the west, all men are powerless, housecats and dogs, half of the women walk around like whores, and these whores basically can show up anywhere and get any employment they wish - and still they bitch about 'glass ceilings'.
Women clearly have, as a rule, not the faintest clue about the world a man lives in, of the fact that a man cant just show off his body and get adored and paid for it, they have no fucking clue how well they're being treated. All of society is oriented on women, on satisfying their consumerism, and on keeping men tame so they can ravage them psychologically and then complain about them.

When a woman has a good sense of reality and thus of her power, she becomes extremely generous. But that is very rare.

Haha yes this is quite accurate.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 3:39 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
And yes a woman with a soul is truly generous, in her spirit and emotions and joy, just as a man with a soul is generous in his thought and his ideas and work.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 09, 2016 10:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
And yes a woman with a soul is truly generous, in her spirit and emotions and joy, just as a man with a soul is generous in his thought and his ideas and work.

Yes I think a woman is essentially a field agent. She has to risk life and limb to get her child, man, joy, house, safety - she has to go about contradicting all she craves to get it. So she has no time for politics or philosophy, she must live from moment to moment, judging by the best of her instincts, abilities and wisdom what is good and what is not.

Any woman ending up in a profound sense of comfort and freedom is a pure self-valuing, she has accomplished a true and real wisdom of the Earth --
and this wisdom of the Earth, it is always local. Wherever she goes she is a standard. But only where she goes. She can not be asked to think in abstractions, as that contradicts her Valuing - she basically does not feel abstraction is worthy of more than a smile one throws at a kid. She may very well know it is worth more, and be romanced by that idea, but she can not treat it as such.

My world certainly would take women to be the standard of home life and of local organization. But passing beyond a hundred men, a mans ideas are needed to keep the backs straight.

Men can simply handle a lot more pain and thus are more honest with each other. A man can never be honest with a woman about his pain, as that quite simply destroys a woman. Even if woman can be destroyed over and over like a cat, it is far from nice. All around accomplished woman should be reward. Woman can thus not enter politics, except as Empress.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 09, 2016 10:13 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
FC wrote:
If women rule and they do as they are likely to, which is to kill off 80 percent of males so as to guarantee their dominance and in general, their pleasure (only a woman could want a village or tribe or world to her own sex, only she is that genocidal - men do it only to protect their women) then I would probably be one of the fortunate males, as I have good genes and I am able to please women. As they send out the rest of males to death or space, the regents will request my presence continuously. I would also be asked or ordered to impregnate many of them. I think that women are aiming for a world like this. The way they like to group around one male tells me they yearn for a world where they make up the vast majority.

Lolz. That's right, perform beautifully making girls only or else. Lolz.

Genocidal? Men are so dramatic.

Nice fantasy though, another bedtime story?

Imagine the opposite -
then quickly forget about it.

There are plenty of womens movements, have been since the genome was discovered, preaching the end of men, and researching into the possibility of homogametic humanity. Recently Parodites linked to a girl he enjoyed listening to as she talks about the ideal of decimating the male population.

Let's entertain the notion for a moment. The 20 percent of privileged males would live in paradise. It can be done without killing anyone, but simply by having more females born. Men will always have their structural powers over women, so the less men, the more advantaged they are relative to Mankind in general.

the opposite appears to me like this -- even as it is, it is estimated that 3 percent of men 'consume' 90 percent of free women. It would be absolute rape amidst absolute war.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 09, 2016 10:28 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
A1 the sexes arent equal
A2 woman is the better sex
A3 man is the stronger sex

B1 men are worth less than women
B2 men have to work harder to be worth something
B3 it is easier to attain value through women

C1 a surplus of females is a great attainment of nature




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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 09, 2016 11:12 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I believe the very essence of any proper 'masculinism' is that it is driven to exalt women, above the affairs of men. So that they may be enjoyed in company and perhaps even more after a great attainment. This is nature in its most joyful, its self-expending bliss, its readiness to die at any moment for the continuation until death of the privilege once known never lost as standard to what life is, must be.

A government of muses would be in effect once its women provide all men with the privilege of that most fine-spun drive-continuum, that only we now know, philosophers. Somehow truth is indeed a woman, fickle as she is and without bottom so deep - somehow it is equal to discover philosophy as it is to first fall in love, or lust, or desire - the realization of an infinitude of something much higher than the limited nature of things.

For a man to make a woman into an object is thus the ultimate mistake - she must be allowed to approach her own objective. Whether this is a family or something else, it will always be something unfathomable - she keeps it this way as nature loves to hide.

A worlds with far more women than men would involve a lush world of lesbianism - but gay men would not exist. Surely there will be male to male attraction, but it will hardly be possible to develop it into a sexual desire with all the women around. Testosterone is bound to be plentiful. What would not exist is effeminate men. Unless the women deliberately create a caste of them but I would recommend against that even apart from my distaste for such a world which would defeat the purpose of a surplus women situation, it seems a path to sterility.

The desire to make women equal to men is the drive of weak men, who neither have the drive to make life good for women, nor the experience to know what life is for a man - they thusly cause women to become far more ruthless than men are allowed by nature of society to be. A woman can go around destroying lives on a daily basis and never be looked at without admiration. The lives she destroys are those of fragile but masculine men. She has no inkling of how deep a man is in his seemingly pathetic suffering - she knows not the souls of the great geniuses, and how close all loving men are to these souls. She does not know how much ravaging her powers do to the very fabric of the earth. Man is suppose to know this. All cultures began by a couple of men realizing what had to be done about hte deplorable situation with the women, and how they were being treated as if they arent divinity itself.




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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeFri Nov 11, 2016 5:38 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Could it be possible that men fear women far more than they are able to comprehend? Even Zeus was afraid of one goddess.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeFri Nov 11, 2016 10:04 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
Could it be possible that men fear women far more than they are able to comprehend? Even Zeus was afraid of one goddess.

I told a girl I was with that I had a fight with someone, i meant another girl, but she took it for a man, and it got her very horny instantly. "You were in a fight?" She smiled and threw off her robe. I didnt get time to correct myself.

What Im saying is that we men kill and break each other just for you women, because youll provoke and prick and deprive and deceive us until we have no other choice in our hearts but to go out and kill some poor fuck to please you.

Of course we are all afraid of your absolute irrationality which serves your unfathomable bloodlust.
But we love you.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeFri Nov 11, 2016 11:47 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
FC wrote:
What Im saying is that we men kill and break each other just for you women, because youll provoke and prick and deprive and deceive us until we have no other choice in our hearts but to go out and kill some poor fuck to please you.

Romanticized nonsense. Men enjoy a worthwhile destruction scenario. Women try to live vicariously through a man's physical

strength and speed since girls are programmed to be more ladylike and docile, strong women are regarded as feminist dykes.


As far as interesting conversations go, Ecmandu (ILP Rant House) is finally answering my questions at a snail's pace, but his

answers resonate with me. Powerful beings of pure imagination(Gods) struck a loud chord instantly which makes sense to me

here in looney tunes land.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 12:13 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
You folks are doing a great job at stereotyping the sexes.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 2:43 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
You folks are doing a great job at stereotyping the sexes.

Feel free to point out how "stereotyping" doesn't also at times mean "accurate".



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 2:47 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The only way to know the difference between accurate and inaccurate stereotyping is to dive right into the deep end and wrestle with these ideas directly. You must face and confront them, not shy away because they are "stereotyping". There is no substitute for the difficult dirty work of actually engaging reality, over and over until some true things finally manifest from all that work. Truths are made, not given; ideas are cumulative constructions, not ready-made images. Many stereotypes have a basis in reality, which is the reason for why the stereotype exists at all. And yes they also blend inaccuracies and pathologies, but if you're not going to address the individual, specific contents directly and honestly then you'll never know the difference between true and false here.

It's the same with philosophy: the only way to distinguish a true from a false thought is to actually work with that thought individually, directly, honestly, deeply. It is literally impossible to paint a wide generalized brush stroke over ideas and assess the truth value of those contents by simply looking at if those contents have a certain overt form or not.


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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 6:00 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
FC wrote:
What Im saying is that we men kill and break each other just for you women, because youll provoke and prick and deprive and deceive us until we have no other choice in our hearts but to go out and kill some poor fuck to please you.

Romanticized nonsense. Men enjoy a worthwhile destruction scenario. Women try to live vicariously through a man's physical

strength and speed since girls are programmed to be more ladylike and docile, strong women are regarded as feminist dykes.


As far as interesting conversations go, Ecmandu (ILP Rant House) is finally answering my questions at a snail's pace, but his

answers resonate with me. Powerful beings of pure imagination(Gods) struck a loud chord instantly which makes sense to me

here in looney tunes land.

Good for you.
Feel free to leave us crazies here to our devices, and spend your time on Ecmandu.

If you d decide to be here properly, i recommend studying Parodites' work.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 6:07 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
You folks are doing a great job at stereotyping the sexes.

Feel free to point out how "stereotyping" doesn't also at times mean "accurate".

It is a very racist stereotype that an object will always fall downward. What bigot said that, lets have a primal scream.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 7:48 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross

Quote :
I think philosophy is masculine pregnancy. Im convinced now, since recently, that women can not attain to the joy of this particular discipline.

So what are you saying here? That philosophy is the unconscious desire and frustration that comes from not having the capacity to conceive, carry and giving birth to children?


Why do some philosophers have to hug the idea of it, possessing it, so close to their bosoms. What would they sacrifice if they could see it as all-inclusive to human beings, though not all humans care for it?
This idea of the men's club, lets call it. Is that a defense mechanism for philosophy to remain in a man's hands?



Quote :
Woman, when she goes for philosophy, becomes something else, something very beautiful and enriching,


With that thought, you are simply experiencing your own anima, FC. So the statement doesn't mean much in and of itself.


Quote :
but she never seems to find joy in thought itself.


Now that is stereotyping. Barring the philosopher, finding joy in thinking is an individual thing, FC.




Quote :
Perhaps thought is simply masculine, and emotion feminine

That being the case, there just might be quite a few feminine philosophers on these forums.


Quote :
- as emotion is elevated into power through a process that involves both the hardness and the care that philosophy also involves when it elevates thought to power.



Quote :
Perhaps to a man thought is hard and emotion soft, and the reverse is the case to a woman?

That would depend on the individual, the thought, the emotion and the circumstance/situation.
I rather think it depends on the intelligence and the emotional makeup of the individual.




Quote :
Man finds freedom in thought, and he is captured by emotion.

I'm a woman and I find much freedom in thought especially when I try to give up pre-conceived ideas.



Quote :
A thought can set an emotional state free, give it wings, so that it becomes self-valuing action.

Wouldn't it be the response or behavior which occurs as a result of that thought which becomes the self-valuing action?

What might the thought and the emotional state be - as an example?



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Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 8:12 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Arcturus Descending wrote:
Fixed Cross

Quote :
I think philosophy is masculine pregnancy. Im convinced now, since recently, that women can not attain to the joy of this particular discipline.

So what are you saying here? That philosophy is the unconscious desire and frustration that comes from not having the capacity to conceive, carry and giving birth to children?

The wings given by a proud burden.

Only if pregnancy would be the result of women not being able to philosophize. Which I dont think is the case, no. Philosophy is not reactive, it is primordial. It is not 'reflection'. It is being itself. This is what Ive never seen a woman grasp.

Neither was "first". Philosophy is mans generative quality, his love for women and desire to raise children in his will are aspects of philosophy.

Quote :
Quote :
Woman, when she goes for philosophy, becomes something else, something very beautiful and enriching,

With that thought, you are simply experiencing your own anima, FC. So the statement doesn't mean much in and of itself.

No, it only means something to people that follow my arguments. Not "of itself", no. Statements never do. They are to be read in context. Even the bible.

What do you think the "Anima" is?

Quote :
Quote :
but she never seems to find joy in thought itself.

Now that is stereotyping. Barring the philosopher, finding joy in thinking is an individual thing, FC.

I just dont ever see it happening that a woman follows through a thought to ts logical conclusion. Im serious. Ive expected it to happen my whole lfe but as of this month, I have given up. We were so close to the very end of things by the very hope of a woman acting in accordance with logic. But logic had us choose her logically drive opponent.

Now, women will have to prove themselves to me. For the first time in my life, I have turned skeptical of their intellectual and moral capacity. I dont doubt my mother, but she s the cause of my unjustified respect for other, almost always lesser, weaker, easier women.

Quote :
Quote :
Perhaps thought is simply masculine, and emotion feminine

That being the case, there just might be quite a few feminine philosophers on these forums.

You mean human. Yes, the three of us have very strong feminine sides.
We're integrated. But we are integrated men. Integrated women I dont know of.

What would an Animus-integrated female be like?
Lets try to imagine her.

Quote :
Quote :
- as emotion is elevated into power through a process that involves both the hardness and the care that philosophy also involves when it elevates thought to power.

Perhaps to a man thought is hard and emotion soft, and the reverse is the case to a woman?

That would depend on the individual, the thought, the emotion and the circumstance/situation.
I rather think it depends on the intelligence and the emotional makeup of the individual.

Only? Nothing depends on gender?

We men could just get pregnant, depending on our personality?

In effect, men nurse a though for far longer than women nurse a baby. Ive been nursing my VO for 6 years now and it is still in its infancy. I spend all my hours with her. I would kill whole countries of people if they'd try to destroy her.

Quote :
Quote :
Man finds freedom in thought, and he is captured by emotion.

I'm a woman and I find much freedom in thought especially when I try to give up pre-conceived ideas.

This is your first straightforward statement.
I have no trouble taking you seriously here.

Quote :
Quote :
A thought can set an emotional state free, give it wings, so that it becomes self-valuing action.

Wouldn't it be the response or behavior which occurs as a result of that thought which becomes the self-valuing action?

What might the thought and the emotional state be - as an example?

Yes, that is also a valid description.

Say, how VO sets the emotional state of absolute love free to act in an imperfect world.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 9:09 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
You folks are doing a great job at stereotyping the sexes.

Feel free to point out how "stereotyping" doesn't also at times mean "accurate".

Maybe not so much "accurate" but just getting lucky.

Like someone having a belief which is not well thought out or thought out at all which is the nature of belief. Nevertheless, that belief is not simply a belief but it is also "by accident" an objective truth.
Stereotyping is based on generalizations and biases about a certain group.

Wouldn't you say that accuracy has more to do with the scientific method and proven fact, not simply getting lucky?
The way I look at it, it can only be accurate when you've observed an individual separately and see him/her for who he/she is and not for a
stereotypical judgment call of bias.
Otherwise, you've just gotten lucky.









___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 9:35 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
The best thing about men are our weaknesses qua male. The best thing about women are their weaknesses qua female. This is the true and only basis of 'equality', which is also the true and only basis of love.


I'm not sure what you mean by this but I seem to find something beautiful and meaningful about it. Perhaps what you mean is that within our vulnerability, when we (men and women) are able to experience each other's weaknesses, because we know our own within ourselves in being who we are, we have more the human capacity to come together to harmonize with one another. This in itself may lead to love.

This may add more somehow than men and women knowing each other's strengths. As humans, we are terribly flawed but....









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Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 10:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Capable wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
You folks are doing a great job at stereotyping the sexes.

Feel free to point out how "stereotyping" doesn't also at times mean "accurate".

It is a very racist stereotype that an object will always fall downward. What bigot said that, lets have a primal scream.

Hey, I'm just pointing out that all women aren't created equal. Nor all men.

Sure, sometimes stereotyping can be accurate. But I still think that if we judge others we should judge them on their own qualities only, not compare them with others.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 11:00 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Arcturus Descending wrote:
Capable wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
You folks are doing a great job at stereotyping the sexes.

Feel free to point out how "stereotyping" doesn't also at times mean "accurate".

Maybe not so much "accurate" but just getting lucky.

Like someone having a belief which is not well thought out or thought out at all which is the nature of belief. Nevertheless, that belief is not simply a belief but it is also "by accident" an objective truth.
Stereotyping is based on generalizations and biases about a certain group.

Wouldn't you say that accuracy has more to do with the scientific method and proven fact, not simply getting lucky?
The way I look at it, it can only be accurate when you've observed an individual separately and see him/her for who he/she is and not for a
stereotypical judgment call of bias.
Otherwise, you've just gotten lucky.

Agree. And you said it better than I did.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 11:03 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Capable wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
You folks are doing a great job at stereotyping the sexes.

Feel free to point out how "stereotyping" doesn't also at times mean "accurate".

It is a very racist stereotype that an object will always fall downward. What bigot said that, lets have a primal scream.

Hey, I'm just pointing out that all women aren't created equal. Nor all men.

Sure, sometimes stereotyping can be accurate. But I still think that if we judge others we should judge them on their own qualities only, not compare them with others.

"IF it is so ugly to judge, it is not because all things have equal merit, but on the contrary, that a thing's merit can only be discovered by defying judgment." --Deleuze, paraphrase


I am not what you would call "judging" anyone, men or women, in general or specific. The way of looking at these things as "judgment" is silly to me. That isn't what a philosopher does.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:51 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 2:08 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Indeed.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 2:11 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Capable wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
You folks are doing a great job at stereotyping the sexes.

Feel free to point out how "stereotyping" doesn't also at times mean "accurate".

It is a very racist stereotype that an object will always fall downward. What bigot said that, lets have a primal scream.

Hey, I'm just pointing out that all women aren't created equal. Nor all men.

And yet all women have a vagina and a womb, whereas no man has a womb or vagina.

"Oh, looky here, this woman just happens to have a vagina! Last time it was a boy who had a vagina!"

No, women and men have very distinct attributes. And I dont believe in the distinction of body and psyche, so I dont find it logical toi assume that women and men could ever think in remotely similar ways.

Quote :
Sure, sometimes stereotyping can be accurate. But I still think that if we judge others we should judge them on their own qualities only, not compare them with others.

Well as a general rule about persons I agree entirely. But that is not what we are doing here.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 10:57 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Okay. Your point is taken. I just wanted to mention how easily errors can be made when stereotyping or generalizing.

A lot of women have excellent thought patterns and are capable of philosophizing.

But there are a lot of truths in what Y'all are saying.

I will back off now and just read for a while more.
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 3:47 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
FC,


Quote :
It is a very racist stereotype that an object will always fall downward. What bigot said that, lets have a primal scream.


What does pointing to physical reality have to do with stereotyping, racist or otherwise?
Do we deny gravity? Is it a theory which hasn't yet been proven?
Again, what does stereotyping have to do with physical reality?
If there is a logical answer, I would very much like to hear it. I want to learn to think out of the box

This is what we do. Instead of diving into the issue, we perform verbal sleight of hand to mis-direct it.




___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 4:07 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable,



Quote :
"IF it is so ugly to judge, it is not because all things have equal merit, but on the contrary, that a thing's merit can only be discovered by defying judgment." --Deleuze, paraphrase


Define what you mean here or Deleuze meant by judging?
It seems to me that by putting most women in the same category and judging most the same, that is not the proper way of judging. Observations are already then tainted by biases just as they are by the unconscious halo effect.

It isn't the judgment which is ugly but the demeaning and derogatory way in which we sometimes judge.
We all come from our own perceptions.

Deleuze's statement at second glance seems to be saying to me that we first observe and examine withholding judgment.
We can come to truth in that way, don't you think, without uttering negativities.



Quote :
I am not what you would call "judging" anyone, men or women, in general or specific.
I can believe that for the most part.
We all have a tendency at times to go with the flow of whatever is going on, without realizing just what we're doing.


Quote :
The way of looking at these things as "judgment" is silly to me. That isn't what a philosopher does.

Philosophers are not gods contrary to what some of them believe. They are human though in a sense anyone who seeks the truth, wonders about it and stands in awe of it might be said to be divine in nature in those moments but not gods nor God.
Perhaps when a philosopher is engaging in deep philosophical thinking, discussions, all philosophical, maybe it doesn't come to that.
But the human side of the philosopher at times does let go of that discipline and logic and the biases set in.

We're only human but i wonder. When we take that hat off, does the next one we put on have to be so far removed from the P hat?



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Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 4:27 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
I wonder if feminism is justification for self-castration?


Perhaps only if a man doesn't doesn't sense and know his own self-identity.

There are even men who are feminists of sorts.
Would they consider cutting off their penises, figuratively or literally, simply because women choose to be known for who they truly are and want to be taken as a man's equal, equal in the sense of being just as human and with that entails, though unequal in the logical ways of men and women evolving unequally.
They also realize that though unequal in ways, that kind of inequality harmonizes men and women together.

Chauvinistic men do not judge rightly. How could they? They have blinders on their minds and their hearts. They also run with the herd.



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Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 4:45 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Philosophers are gods. This is precisely what women do not understand, and why women keep ensuring low standard men will be selected. Take some responsibility, all you women out there. This is exactly why you aren't (yet) capable of philosophizing. Also why you don't believe in yourself.

A woman wants men to like her so she can believe in herself, so she can exist. Men love women too, but we don't need them to believe in ourselves, because we have truth.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 5:44 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Arcturus Descending wrote:
Capable wrote:
I wonder if feminism is justification for self-castration?


Perhaps only if a man doesn't doesn't sense and know his own self-identity.

There are even men who are feminists of sorts.
Would they consider cutting off their penises, figuratively or literally, simply because women choose to be known for who they truly are and want to be taken as a man's equal, equal in the sense of being just as human and with that entails, though unequal in the logical ways of men and women evolving unequally.
They also realize that though unequal in ways, that kind of inequality harmonizes men and women together.

Chauvinistic men do not judge rightly. How could they? They have blinders on their minds and their hearts. They also run with the herd.

You have missed the point in its entirety.

I can make it very short: in terms of human virtues, all feminist men are castrates, and all feminist women are barren.

Feminism is basically the denial of love, eros, of sex, of joy, of life.

The only human feminists are the first ones, the powerful Italian and French and American women that revealed their fantasies. Which were mostly rape fantasies. But that meaning of the term feminism is dead - as it exists, now, it is the purest denial of love, instated by Edward Bernays to sell cigarettes to young ladies.
The effect is that as rule, women now behave as whores, and try to be awarded masculine dignity for that.



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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 8:45 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Women require men to lie to them, about a million different things. I guess this is part of a man's honor that he would lie to a woman for her sake, because she wants that, but it really does impose a sharp limit in the soul.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 16, 2016 3:53 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:Philosophers are gods. This is precisely what women do not understand, and why women keep ensuring low standard men will be selected. Take some responsibility, all you women out there. This is exactly why you aren't (yet) capable of philosophizing. Also why you don't believe in yourself.

Quote :
A woman wants men to like her so she can believe in herself, so she can exist. Men love women too, but we don't need them to believe in ourselves, because we have truth
.

So then please explain to me what the male philosophers mean when they say that "philosophers are gods" albeit not every philosopher thinks that way.
Simply saying it doesn't make it true.

True. There are women out there who will choose men who are a dime a dozen - just as many men will do the same insofar as women go. They are not after value and true essence but simply someone to fill their time and loneliness. But perhaps they cannot be too much blamed. You cannot get blood out of stone so to speak. You also have to learn true value.

Speaking for myself, it is true. I do not ALWAYS believe in myself. Do you? Does everyone ALWAYS?
You yourself took the name Capable. Isn't that quite in contradiction to someone who would consider himself to be a god? scratch
The reason why some of us may not always be capable of philosophizing could be simple ~~ we aren't scholars or brilliant. We've all been given different gifts and talents. But that doesn't mean that we don't wonder and stand in awe of many things, it doesn't mean that we don't wonder about ourselves and Truth and go in search of these things. It doesn't mean that certain books do not whet our appetites for learning and discovering about our minds.
But do we have to consider ourselves to be gods? Consider what happened to the gods.

Quote :
Men love women too, but we don't need them to believe in ourselves, because we have truth.

This may not be a very philosophical response, but what I say to this is HA.

We're all human, we have our weaknesses, our failings/flaws, et cetera.
Do you mean to say that there is not a woman in your life who has helped you along to maintain your belief in yourself, your affirmation of self?
It's possible she could not give you your intelligence, your aptitude and love for philosophy but don't tell me that you are a masculine island unto yourself.

I wonder why evolution created two genders (well, there is also transgender) and not simply Man or Woman. I'm not looking for an answer to this question. Do you know better than evolution? Rolling Eyes


Quote :
Men love women too, but we don't need them to believe in ourselves, because we have truth.

Truth is not so easily found, Capable, especially self-truth.
We all, like you're doing now, above, sometimes paint very broad strokes on the canvas of our hearts and minds.



Very often what we consider to be "truth" is our own subjective thinking, which may carry truth but don't presume/assume that you are such a great companion of truth. That's truly not meant as an insult. You have a brilliant mind but our psyches sometimes remain in the dark.
Like the universe, we have much more dark matter within us.

But you might want to clarify for me what YOU mean by having truth. It's quite an ambiguous statement.


Quote :
A woman wants men to like her so she can believe in herself, so she can exist

Yes, this is sometimes true. Is it ALWAYS about wanting to believe in herself though? Perhaps a particular woman wants a particular man to like her (speaking universally) because she values who she senses and sees in him. Do you see a difference between what you said above and how a woman might desire a more enriching life? It isn't always about her self-esteem.

Truth is not just one very broad sketch on a canvas. It's more about putting the pieces together, one at a time, to a puzzle. The more pieces, the broader the scope of what can be seen of truth - its like, to borrow your phrase - an ad continuum of sorts.



___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 16, 2016 4:05 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Women require men to lie to them, about a million different things.
Quote :
I guess this is part of a man's honor that he would lie to a woman for her sake, because she wants that, but it really does impose a sharp limit in the soul.

STOP putting all women in the same category. We are not all peas in the same pod. There are different pods for different women. And many women have their own pods. lol


So what are you saying? That some men do not have the capability of speaking the truth to a woman without at the same time being gentle and affirming about it?

What honor? I would think lying to a women for her sake would be a loss of integrity for that man. At the same time, how does that allow the woman to grow and mature and to know herself? I'm not saying to be demeaning or derogatory.

I will admit though that there are instances when a man can tell a little white lie, as their women also do for them, if it allows them to feel good about themselves in a way which doesn't cause them to not grow emotionally/spiritually.
For instance, a man might tell his woman that she looks beautiful in a dress that she absolutely loves and which does make her feel beautiful even though he may logically know or believe otherwise.


I sometimes wonder just how much communicate actually transpires between couples. They have almost no understanding of what is really going on in the minds of one another. How enriching if they did.


So many generalizations. So much stereotyping.
Look to the INDIVIDUAL.



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Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Nov 18, 2016 8:15 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Just to add a little conflict:

In the Tao Te Ching it is said:

Tao gave birth to One,

Which sex gives birth? Female, of course.

Therefore, were we to personify Tao, Tao would be female, a woman. With long flowing hair like a horse's mane.



In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Logos (masculine) was God's Word breathing existence into being or giving birth to a Universe.


But one could actually say that the Tao is genderless.

Maybe your personificarion is your ideal woman. Twisted Evil




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Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Nov 18, 2016 10:34 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Arcturus Descending wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
Just to add a little conflict:

In the Tao Te Ching it is said:

Tao gave birth to One,

Which sex gives birth? Female, of course.

Therefore, were we to personify Tao, Tao would be female, a woman. With long flowing hair like a horse's mane.



In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Logos (masculine) was God's Word breathing existence into being or giving birth to a Universe.


But one could actually say that the Tao is genderless.

Maybe your personificarion is your ideal woman. Twisted Evil


I laughed. In truth, I don't even use "Tao" as a noun. I think it is an error to do so. "Tao" is a verb.

I never met an ideal woman. I married three different ones who were not so ideal. Oh well. That was when I was young and dumb.

Recently I was challenged to consider that there was no creation, no beginning. The universe has always existed; just in different form.

But I like the Big Bang theory and Singularity so I haven't fully accepted it yet.

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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 23, 2016 5:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"Sisyphus"



I laughed. In truth, I don't even use "Tao" as a noun. I think it is an error to do so. "Tao" is a verb.

I never met an ideal woman. I married three different ones who were not so ideal. Oh well. That was when I was young and dumb.



But I like the Big Bang theory and Singularity so I haven't fully accepted it yet. [/quote]

Tao is a verb? It might translate into action but how can it be a verb?
Isn't it something like at-one-ment? That's a state to me which is a noun, no?
Anyway, always considered it to be Some Thing.

Perhaps the ideal man or woman only truly exists in our dreams or imaginations. For me, I've known a few men who were, when they merged into one, the ideal man for me. But it took about 3 to make the one for me -- one did come pretty close though for being ideal to me.


Quote :
Recently I was challenged to consider that there was no creation, no beginning. The universe has always existed; just in different form.

I can't quite fathom THAT. I don't really believe in intelligent design but doesn't something have to come from something?
It boggles my mind and can give me a headache when I try to consider our origins or the origins of the very first universe.
Maybe our minds, at least mine, lol, have not evolved enough to think outside language and physical reality and even intangible reality.

But I just somehow cannot see how something can come from nothing.
I don't think that the physicists believe that the Big Bang came first and neither somehow do I but don't ask me to explain it.
But it is such an amazing mystery, isn't it?



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Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 30, 2016 5:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I've never yet seen a woman need to think. This is maybe the only difference between women and men.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 30, 2016 12:56 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
A wrote:
S wrote:
Recently I was challenged to consider that there was no creation, no beginning. The universe has always existed; just in different form.
I can't quite fathom THAT. I don't really believe in intelligent design but doesn't something have to come from something?
It boggles my mind and can give me a headache when I try to consider our origins or the origins of the very first universe.
Maybe our minds, at least mine, lol, have not evolved enough to think outside language and physical reality and even intangible reality.

But I just somehow cannot see how something can come from nothing.
I don't think that the physicists believe that the Big Bang came first and neither somehow do I but don't ask me to explain it.
But it is such an amazing mystery, isn't it?



You give your own answer; it has to come from something. The Big Bang, and the Singularity, they don't. They are presuppositions, to satisfy the idea that there must be a beginning, but they evidently provide little substance. It looks to be just a decision on the part of some people to interpret that giant explosion that did occur as the origin of all time.

It is impossible for many different reasons, one of which is this: singularity is singular and can thus not contain its own contradiction; a perfect singularity can not explode into a world.

It is more likely, namely possible, that we project the perfection of the universe that we subconsciously experience into a conscious idea of union in which all quality is believed to be contained. We project our ideal backward in time. We do that on all sorts of levels.

To posit an origin of time is to posit something before time, which is hard to logically reconcile, since to begin a process, it has to be differentiated from another process. There is an impossible gap between the eternity of the singularity and the 'beginning of time' which is something like 'the low of height'. It doesnt mean anything in physical (timespace) terms.

Timespace is not thinkable with a beginning.


It is inevitably the case the something has always existed.
- If time 'began' once, that means that whatever exists has existed all throughout time
But more simple is that time is simply a function of existence. It is the way in which existence moves with respect to itself. But existence itself is simply this: possibility.







An image of Manifestation: the touch of different possibilities that reconcile into a will.



Being is logically made up of mere possibility. It is transient, except for its being-possible.
Skeptics that we are we now interpret this as "uncertainty" - and tried it for a principle. It's the possibility principle that guides light and electricity, and culminates in the heart, and carries the mutable mind-axis.



All true thought originates in the heart.

"Of all that is written, I love only what a person hath written with his blood. Write with blood, and thou wilt find that blood is spirit." [N, Reading and Writing]





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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 30, 2016 1:09 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes to say "existence" is already to say "something outside of time". The notion of absolute non-existence, to the extent it approaches what it is supposed to mean, also approaches its own... non-existence.

Non-existence is the logical truism that non-existence is ("always") non-existent.

Existence is the logical truism that existence ("always") exists.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 30, 2016 1:13 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ive seen a woman need to think. Two of them. In both cases, the result was absolutely coldblooded, thus Untrue.




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PostSubject: Re: Women philosophers Women philosophers - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 30, 2016 1:18 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hmm yeah you're right, I've seen this one time now that I think of it. The result was as you say.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:53 pm

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PostSubject: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeFri Nov 04, 2016 8:49 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Time for a battle. Whoever. Whatever. Bring it, I'm feeling cocky and may need a bit of stomping.
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 2:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Over what should we battle?



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 7:12 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Any more anything seems to be a good enough reason.
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 10:52 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Pick something somebody! Geez!
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 4:51 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ive always seen the apparently best women choose bankers as husbands.
Especially the more vocally idealistic ones tend to, if they are pretty enough, marry very sick pale shadows of men, just because they have money, which is in turn because they work 18 hours a day for a rape machine.

All improvements of human life, all merciful things, have been the gift of males.
It is like James Brown says. It is a mans world. But it would be nothing without a woman or a girl.



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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 4:55 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Clinton is the most savage secretary of state the US has ever had, easily on par with Stalin in indifference to human suffering. And yet most women I know lean to vote for her. That means that they are either rotten pieces of shit at heart, or supremely capable of remaining ignorant. Both possibilities mean that woman should in fact never have received voting rights. Hitler was the first ever result of women coming out en mass to vote.



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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 5:06 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Christianity has been an age of female rulership, of emotion and irrationality over heart and mind. We are entering this 'age of Aquarius', which simply means the age of science, which means an age where women can lo longer coerce men as well.
We see woman panicking now, reaching for all possible technological means to enhance her irrationalizing power, selfies and silicones, facebook, instagram, the democratic party -- none of it carries weight, but all of it inserts a lot of hot air.

If Clinton wins we are moving into such an absurd spectacle. Stein thinks we'll have nukewar, but in any case US rulership will end. If she wins, we're back to before the civil war.



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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 11:55 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
FC wrote:
Ive always seen the apparently best women choose bankers as husbands.

The best? What? Anyone who is dazzled by materialism is moronic.

Money, powers based on money is for morons whose souls are but shadows. Ideas are the only powers that matters here, there, everywhere.

Why are you trying to stir the pot FC without shame evidently? It's on like Donkey Kong oh gracious host.
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 4:42 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
FC wrote:
We are entering this 'age of Aquarius', which simply means the age of science, which means an age where women can lo longer coerce men as well.
We see woman panicking now, reaching for all possible technological means to enhance her irrationalizing power, selfies and silicones, facebook, instagram, the democratic party -- none of it carries weight, but all of it inserts a lot of hot air.

https://return2thesource.wordpress.com/ ... -aquarius/

SFR wrote:
If Pisces can be described as the age of revelation versus reason, then the Aquarius age will be the age of collective integrity versus individual dignity.

Will individualism survive science?
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 17, 2016 1:03 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
FC wrote:
Ive always seen the apparently best women choose bankers as husbands.

The best? What? Anyone who is dazzled by materialism is moronic.

I like your standard and how you tell it. I wont try to negate.

Quote :
Money, powers based on money is for morons whose souls are but shadows. Ideas are the only powers that matters here, there, everywhere.

Why are you trying to stir the pot FC without shame evidently? It's on like Donkey Kong oh gracious host.

Haha, well as soon as you truly state your shit its over quickly. You tend to only respond like that to incomplete ideas. I happily agree. (sorry)
I just need to hear it from a woman.



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Okay I will still challenge.

A woman will often crave deep financial security to bear a child. In such a case a banking employee can seem like a good choice, as these people are, as Ive seen in London, not always un-awesome, cherishing a kind of dark amor fati that produces a reckless, romantic outlook while producing financial means to put the child in Oxford.



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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 17, 2016 1:24 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
So here we come finally to a point of discernment. Man had been divided into master and slave through German Idealism.
Now, we come to a division of woman into two types of an entirely different dichotomy. There are no women slaves. Ive never seen one. Often the slavisher she is asked to be, the more dignity she acquires. Honor is not an issue, this is a concept unknown to woman - they have a more primordial pride. Black woman not in the least, no doubt as she contains all the racial genes.



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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 17, 2016 1:30 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I think, not know, that woman is bloodthirsty because she is bloody.
Its just a fact that proud masculine violence instantly attracts women, and especially attractive women are thus drawn to these men.



(a thing I edited once for the crazy Berliner playing with black)



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Fixed Cross wrote:
I think, not know, that woman is bloodthirsty because she is bloody.
Its just a fact that proud masculine violence instantly attracts women, and especially attractive women are thus drawn to these men.



(a thing I edited once for the crazy Berliner playing with black)

she is bloody? Wtf?

A fit man who can dance will score more attractive women than a fit man who throws punches.

Wreckless masculine physicality(fighting) always loses to sophisticated masculine physicality(dancing) when it comes to THE BEST WOMEN and about all of the rest of the women too.

In regards to exerting brute force, woman rarely have the chance to engage in such power exchanges so some may be

living

vicariously through the men who are fighting. (Why the Hell is this board chopping up my responses?)
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FC wrote:
Now, we come to a division of woman into two types of an entirely different dichotomy.

Did I miss them? Slavish dignity and primordial pride? What?
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 17, 2016 5:26 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
FC wrote:
We are entering this 'age of Aquarius', which simply means the age of science, which means an age where women can lo longer coerce men as well.
We see woman panicking now, reaching for all possible technological means to enhance her irrationalizing power, selfies and silicones, facebook, instagram, the democratic party -- none of it carries weight, but all of it inserts a lot of hot air.

https://return2thesource.wordpress.com/ ... -aquarius/

SFR wrote:
If Pisces can be described as the age of revelation versus reason, then the Aquarius age will be the age of collective integrity versus individual dignity.

Will individualism survive science?

Well, will it?
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Hi-D wrote:
FC wrote:
Now, we come to a division of woman into two types of an entirely different dichotomy.

Did I miss them? Slavish dignity and primordial pride? What?

Right, I may actually want to mention it.
I mean pride through motherhood and pride through individuality.
The second has first been recorded on Lesbos, by Sappho.






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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 17, 2016 6:42 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
Hi-D wrote:
FC wrote:
We are entering this 'age of Aquarius', which simply means the age of science, which means an age where women can lo longer coerce men as well.
We see woman panicking now, reaching for all possible technological means to enhance her irrationalizing power, selfies and silicones, facebook, instagram, the democratic party -- none of it carries weight, but all of it inserts a lot of hot air.

https://return2thesource.wordpress.com/ ... -aquarius/

SFR wrote:
If Pisces can be described as the age of revelation versus reason, then the Aquarius age will be the age of collective integrity versus individual dignity.

Will individualism survive science?

Well, will it?

Science is the product and ownership of ridiculously proud men. Yes, it will.
Newton - that is an individual. Einstein, Copernicus -
Science = Man, almost.

The mobs are ruled by derivatives of science called technologies. But individuals like us are using these techs to produce new science.



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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 17, 2016 7:39 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Where do you see science going in a good way? More pros than cons.


FC wrote:
I mean pride through motherhood and pride through individuality.
The second has first been recorded on Lesbos, by Sappho.

Mind elaborating a bit more on both accounts?
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 17, 2016 9:09 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
Where do you see science going in a good way? More pros than cons.

That is a question about the size of my soul. Meaning I have an infinitude of answers but they are all impenetrable, and the one that isnt is strangely archaic: Architecture.

Quote :
>I mean pride through motherhood and pride through individuality.
The second has first been recorded on Lesbos, by Sappho.<

Mind elaborating a bit more on both accounts?

I think the educated heterosexual woman is always torn between the two. The tension is 'perversely' resolved in the milf-archetype, but in a noble way, it is a work of art to balance them every day. That is what nobility in the sense of aristocracy has always meant - manners in the literal sense - methods of behavior.

A Lesbian couple with children is also an attempt at resolution - I have one of those in the family but so far it hasnt played out to anyones individuality, rather the opposite. A savage tribal will to power was suddenly the standard, and after 10 years I sort of joined the dance and diminished the savagery, as I had to realize men are indeed necessary to keep order and civilization.

The third way of resolving it building an intellectual relationship with the child along with the emotional tie. But this is dangerous for the child.

I dont know how it is, it seems to me that its not been figured out often, as little as men have figured out to be intellectuals and warriors at once.




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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeFri Nov 18, 2016 1:24 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
From my brief research, the age of Aquarius has yet to start which you've termed the age of science. As I ponder the end of this age, I see less individuality and more conformity than ever before and one of the main reasons this conformity stands out in my mind is due to the fact that people are loosing useful skills that set them apart and firmly bridged their identities as individuals apart from the collective. Trade skills, artistic skills, survival skills are diminishing into non-existence. People live vicariously through their technologies rather than exploring and getting involved in the physical aspects of life beyond tech. And the tech is dumbing down the majority who really can't afford to lose anymore of their worth.
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeFri Nov 18, 2016 2:41 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes. I see science as a difficult condition, out of which a strong type is forced emerge, along with a lot of tragic loss of humanity on the other side of the coin, the one you describe.
People who live on facebook and mediasites are not in my mind entities, theyre part of a plasma of inter-human-ness.
No real units. Mankind craves wifi more than sex or food, some study just published. A very serious evolutionary change. The question is not who will adapt best to this new environment? But: who will manage to adapt this new environment to himself?


Let that sink in.

I just beat Darwinism to smithereens.


Having a great love for physical materials and skills, I am of the type which is able to be organically wholesome and self reliant with what the Earth offers. I live my days crafting and sowing and reaping things and building a world of philosophy that functions as a realm for sound psyches and which is nicely influencing politics toward a world where people like me can have more freedom. Selfvaluing, i.e. to interpret the world wisely.

How to interpret science wisely?
As I do. As a tool, as a miracle, and as a challenge to humanity itself.

So yes, science is a means to the Overman... but this is precisely because the Overman is the man that has overcome science.



Now ladies note that this means first fully integrate it, and then transform it from a source of power beyond it. Its not possible to avoid or evade it.



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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeFri Nov 18, 2016 7:51 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
FC wrote:
That is a question about the size of my soul. Meaning I have an infinitude of answers but they are all impenetrable, and the one that isnt is strangely archaic: Architecture.

Architecture as by the builder in charge or architecture as in the finished structure's useful artisticness?

What does an infinitude of impenetrable answers become?

FC wrote:
Mankind craves wifi more than sex or food, some study just published. A very serious evolutionary change. The question is not who will adapt best to this new environment? But: who will manage to adapt this new environment to himself?

What does this new environment even mean? One massive, unexpected EMP and the new becomes non-existent. Then all the dumdums everywhere are truly fucked. In three days they are out of water, in a week out of food, a month medical supplies, life will degenerate/devolve from there back to the 1800's.
My guess anyway.

Evolution is always fragile beyond an embryonic heartbeat.
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeTue Nov 22, 2016 1:46 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I have won? Oh come now, I have on a mouse neck brace to protect my miceness.
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Icon_minitimeTue Nov 22, 2016 3:51 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
MM wrote:
FC wrote:
That is a question about the size of my soul. Meaning I have an infinitude of answers but they are all impenetrable, and the one that isnt is strangely archaic: Architecture.

Architecture as by the builder in charge or architecture as in the finished structure's useful artisticness?

The General Dasein As Thinking, Dwelling and Building

Quote :
What does an infinitude of impenetrable answers become?

A storm, a happiness, a pregnancy.

Quote :
FC wrote:
Mankind craves wifi more than sex or food, some study just published. A very serious evolutionary change. The question is not who will adapt best to this new environment? But: who will manage to adapt this new environment to himself?

What does this new environment even mean? One massive, unexpected EMP and the new becomes non-existent. Then all the dumdums everywhere are truly fucked. In three days they are out of water, in a week out of food, a month medical supplies, life will degenerate/devolve from there back to the 1800's.

But that wont happen. Just as that minisculusculously minuscule alteration in the magnetosphere that would rip the whole atmosphere away isnt going to happen.

My guess anyway.

Evolution is always fragile beyond an embryonic heartbeat.





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Besides, I dont think so. If you can put together a server and hack it into a satellite, you'll not have a lot of trouble creating a fishing-rod, creating a fire or gutting an animal.



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Psychotic ridiculousness is evolution?

You think tech nerd translates into survival guru?
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Hi-D wrote:
Psychotic ridiculousness is evolution?

The fiirst is a value judgment, the second is 'what happens to come out on top' -
it's not a clear question. (no games, i mean it)

The idiots are the media moguls and people who own a tv. No hacker watches tv. This alone is supreme evolutionary advantage.

Quote :
You think tech nerd translates into survival guru?

Tech nerd, sounds like another value judgment.
I mean people who can build servers and hook them into satellites most absolutely will possess basic survival skills. Hacking is one of the toughest things to the mind there are. Its very universal, because logic itself is being re and re invented in every hack.

Hacking means scoping for possibilities to alter an environment to your benefit by recognizing unintended functions in code.
Will they know how to romance a women? Maybe not, maybe so. But they will know how to fish.
All men who arent reading newspapers or watching tv because theyre too smart know this.

Weve evolved from hunter gatherers, were not as stupid as the media make us look.
Again, the media, and everyone who takes them seriously, these are dead upon reality. But hackers ... theyll be among the last ones standing.

One only becomes a hacker out of ultra consistent will to power.
Masculinity isnt heaving musclebosoms. Its diligence before a task.



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Men with excessive social skills are useless. Once men are needed, such types turn essentially to women without the benefits or strengths of women, they become 'fags'. People who work in bars are 'fags', they never know how to handle a tool, they can just flatter people or unflatter then. DJ's are like worse versions of bartenders, like people not even capable of pouring a drink, so weak they take pride in pressing a button to start a song they didnt make. DJs and bartenders will always be the first to go. They instantly lose their charm. College professors last a long time, as they gain charm in the wind. Even if they cant think for shit, they have their memory and pride in words. This always gives women a secure feeling. But tech nerds will be the one scoping for edible nuts and fruits and places to build huts, and arguing over how to fastest make a fire in the rain.



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Everything is or has a hack these days.

So your opinions are many, but are they founded in reality or is reality up for debate too?

The supreme hacker, the best of the best, describe this person.

Your last post made me laugh, thanks. Razz
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Hi-D wrote:
Everything is or has a hack these days.

Another meaning of the word. I mean hacker as in coder. But consciously word-playing is precisely what hacking amounts to. Context-Syntax-Genius!

Quote :
So your opinions are many, but are they founded in reality or is reality up for debate too?

I dont recall ever having had an opinion.

Quote :
The supreme hacker, the best of the best, describe this person.

Einstein.
If you can draw the formula for mass out of the speed of light, you'll pretty much be able to make fire out of everything.
The man chose to play the violin instead.



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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 22, 2016 5:56 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
FC wrote:
Another meaning of the word. I mean hacker as in coder. But consciously word-playing is precisely what hacking amounts to. Context-Syntax-Genius!

Just razzing you some more because I can't help myself. If you don't state opinions and you don't believe in facts, what's occurring?

Einstein? Isn't the speed of light much, much slower than the speed of reality?
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*victory dancing to the moon and back*
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Hi-D wrote:
FC wrote:
Another meaning of the word. I mean hacker as in coder. But consciously word-playing is precisely what hacking amounts to. Context-Syntax-Genius!

Just razzing you some more because I can't help myself. If you don't state opinions and you don't believe in facts, what's occurring?

I certainly believe in facts!

Whenever I express an opinion, it is just a gleefulness about usually not partaking in the nonsensical activity of having one. I either know something or I dont, I either want this or that. I have values, not opinions.

I talked to a cousin of mine on facebook who proudly said 'yes, I let my opinion form through newspaper x'. What.

What the ...

Thats one of those kids with excessive social skills. An trained stage actor.



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- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 22, 2016 9:36 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
How can you not know anything with all code at your fingertips?

Disappearing is rude. That is a terrible habit of aloofness.

Facts are only educated guesstimations.

Reality is faster than the speed of light (edited: in this dimension).
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 23, 2016 2:50 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Facts have no speed, nor location, and therefore are in all places at all times-- universality.

I'll get back to you about light and its speed.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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Hi-D



Quote :
If you don't state opinions and you don't believe in facts, what's occurring?

Perhaps negative capability - not such an easy place of occurrence.
Perhaps reflection, observation, perception, introspection, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.



Quote :
Isn't the speed of light much, much slower than the speed of reality?

The speed of light IS ALSO the speed of reality since the former is reality.

I think that one could say that depending on the individual's way of thinking and perceiving and judging reality, reality's speed would necessarily be far slower than the speed of light...though some do think with lightning (different) speed.



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Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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Light is reality? It's an aspect on the lower end of reality.

Arc,

Definitely negative capabilities such as rudeness without impunity strewn around in invisible symbolism.
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 24, 2016 11:26 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
How can you not know anything with all code at your fingertips?

There is a lot of physical machinery involved. A lot of tools have to be used. And killing animals isnt exactly the hardest thing for a human being to do. Further, nerds can also handle guns, and many of them do. A programmer I know and his ex-wife own firearms in a state where hardly any one legally does, she a Desert Eagle and he a Glock, which is funny seeing their sizes. They also used to have a Leguanic lizard... they got him just out of the egg and he grew to close to two feet long, but he kept running into the window, he could not learn.

Quote :
Disappearing is rude. That is a terrible habit of aloofness.

Such standards are dangerous on Uranus.

Quote :
Facts are only educated guesstimations.

Is that a fact?

Quote :
Reality is faster than the speed of light (edited: in this dimension).

Yes, valuing syncing is instant.



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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 24, 2016 2:30 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
How can you not know anything with all code at your fingertips?


FC wrote:
There is a lot of physical machinery involved. A lot of tools have to be used.

That was a question regarding all information being at a coders fingertips. What are you addressing?

Regarding the remainder, what?

*victory dancing continues*

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Join me in the Posthumanism thread all ye of little faith.
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*hardcore dance of The Goddess* I always win since I always...
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I was formulating my comparison of you with Maya de Bij, when I went and googled and noticed there is a new digital version of her and that didnt make sense too much.

Bees, if all bees died, not a lot of life would be left on Earth.



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For years bees have been in decline. Another deja vu. Try again. Who am I?
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PostSubject: Re: Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. Bring your A game, I'll bring the rest of the alphabet. - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 1:45 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Am I a firefly and a bee? I morph?
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:54 pm

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PostSubject: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeMon Jan 09, 2017 3:02 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The kindest people are the strongest, not the gifted in intelligence, physical prowess, etc. It takes more courage to be kind and serve others over serving oneself. It takes more all around resources to be kind than even to be angry when anger comes and goes easily and selflessness requires a stamina to perform it continuously. Who dares to defy my perfection?
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeMon Jan 09, 2017 11:01 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
The kindest people are the strongest, not the gifted in intelligence, physical prowess, etc. It takes more courage to be kind and serve others over serving oneself. It takes more all around resources to be kind than even to be angry when anger comes and goes easily and selflessness requires a stamina to perform it continuously. Who dares to defy my perfection?

You done good! This links to our discussion of the Sage.

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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeTue Jan 10, 2017 1:53 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus, why are you agreeing with me on the battlefield? Your suppose to oppose me so I learn to debate. Stop with your sweet, supportive sageness and war!
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeWed Jan 11, 2017 12:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
Sisyphus, why are you agreeing with me on the battlefield? Your suppose to oppose me so I learn to debate. Stop with your sweet, supportive sageness and war!

Funny. But I agree with you. What am I supposed to do?

Actually, at the Taoist forum there are some members I know well enough so that when a controversial topic is being discussed and it becomes too one-sided I will take on a perspective that I don't necessarily hold to just so that alternative perspectives can be considered.

I don't feel I am at that level here yet so I am simply speaking to concepts I truly hold. I guess it is more that I feel I should present my true self here first before I start going off the wall.

And down the road you will see more humor from me. I feel humor is important in our life. And we need to be able to laugh at our self.

Hang in there with me. I'm sure I will start messing with you soon and then we can practice our debating skills.

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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeWed Jan 11, 2017 1:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I have no debating skills so it will definitely be messy.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeWed Jan 11, 2017 11:18 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
I have no debating skills so it will definitely be messy.

Well, I don't have any formal training in debate or in logic but I have fun getting into challenging discussions.

I prefer to make my initial statements, questions as short and concise as possible so that there is little room for misunderstanding. Then, when I am responded to I try to be as direct and honest as possible. Honesty is important to me.

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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeFri Jan 20, 2017 6:02 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Let me know when you are ready for our first attempt. When I can find my words in a simple fashion, a simple truism follows.

You pick a topic by all means.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 12:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
Let me know when you are ready for our first attempt. When I can find my words in a simple fashion, a simple truism follows.

You pick a topic by all means.

I'm horrible at starting conversations with others as I have no idea what concepts would inspire deep thought in others.

I enjoy talking about philosophy.

Especially I enjoy talking about stuff like whether or not we have free will, our true nature, and the difference between internal peace and contentment compared to being at peace with our external environment and finding contentment with conditions that are not to our liking.

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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 8:03 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
the difference between internal peace and contentment compared to being at peace with our external environment and finding contentment with conditions that are not to our liking.

This, Peace, interests me greatly too. You're up.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 8:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
A weak person cant possibly be kind. Kindness is born of love, which is born of power.

Sick was the soul who disconnected power from love. Even sicker the one who juxtaposed them.




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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 8:42 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
In walks another who agrees with me. Where's your blade for this duel? I give up!
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 9:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Kindness is weakness masked as strength just as often as kindness is truly born of strength. There is weak-kind and strong-kind.

Weak-kind is degeneration, an entropy of valuing. Strong-kind is excess and overflow, born of love as Fixed said.

The weak cannot love, they only "love" anything in which their own deplorable state and pain is implicitly reflected back to them, so they can unconsciously feed on such images. It is a very low form of self-valuing, one that is always begging to be pushed and jump-started up another notch of the existential.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 9:54 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
A generous spirit is seldom if ever weak. Forced kindness is not true kindness. It's more of a PC correctness than a heartfelt giving of attention.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 10:35 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:

This, Peace, interests me greatly too. You're up.

The peace and contentment I speak of is of our internal state of being. To me it is obvious that "peace on Earth, good will toward man" is but a pipe dream.

And actually, I think that contentment is the root for this peace I speak of. Learning to be content with what we have, being thankful for what we have and not concerning our self with what we do not have.

Now, I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to better our conditions. Doing so is only natural, I think. But this should not interfere with our present contentment. Being content with what we have reduces worry and allows for peace to enter our essence.

Bhutan has a national policy that all the people will be happy. Yes, being in the state of peace and contentment.

And yes, this is all a state of mind. It is said that the Taoist Sage sleeps without dreams and wakes without worry. In sleep his mind is at peace, waking (s)he knows there is nothing to worry about because (s)he will flow with the events of the universe.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 10:39 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
A weak person cant possibly be kind. Kindness is born of love, which is born of power.

Sick was the soul who disconnected power from love. Even sicker the one who juxtaposed them.


I prefer the word "compassion" rather than the word "love". For me, the word "love" has too many connotations and is too mixed up in New Age BS.

The Three Treasures of Taoism: Frugality, Compassion, and Humility.

But yes, power is needed, at many different levels.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 10:41 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
In walks another who agrees with me. Where's your blade for this duel? I give up!

My long swords are pairs. For a dual, the two parties would have an exact weapon as does the other.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 10:45 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Kindness is weakness masked as strength just as often as kindness is truly born of strength. There is weak-kind and strong-kind.

Weak-kind is degeneration, an entropy of valuing. Strong-kind is excess and overflow, born of love as Fixed said.

The weak cannot love, they only "love" anything in which their own deplorable state and pain is implicitly reflected back to them, so they can unconsciously feed on such images. It is a very low form of self-valuing, one that is always begging to be pushed and jump-started up another notch of the existential.

I don't necessarily agree with all you said here but it brought to my mind the reason why I don't talk about kindness too often. I do speak about compassion. And compassion requires strength, both internal and external.

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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 10:48 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
A generous spirit is seldom if ever weak. Forced kindness is not true kindness. It's more of a PC correctness than a heartfelt giving of attention.

I agree with this and it is something I often speak to. (I don't speak about "spirit" too often as it would ruin my image of a Materialist.)

The same goes regarding charity. Charity done with alterior motive is not compassion and not true charity.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 12:54 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I said attention, nothing of charity which denotes for me an aspect of materialism. A hug isn't charity, it's attention done in tune with the beat of my heart.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 12:58 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Kindness shelters weakness.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 1:04 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasy wrote:
Kindness shelters weakness.

Yes! Fighting words! I could kiss you! I shall return!

Hold up, in a negative sense as in propagates or prolongs?
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 1:12 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
My definition of kindness is rooted in the attention I give to others (people and animals). Damn, forgive the piece meal construction.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 1:17 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fuck kindness. I like truth more.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 1:20 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
There is truth found in a single act of attention such as eye contact. So it's not an either or. Stop with the binary thinking.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 1:24 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
There is truth found in a single act of attention such as eye contact. So it's not an either or. Stop with the binary thinking.

The only kindness that matters is that which flows from truth, and as a consequence of truth, and as such is only a secondary entity to the primary of truth.

At best, kindness is merely a symptom. Stop trying to make it into an ontic entity.




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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 1:31 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasy wrote:
At best, kindness is merely a symptom. Stop trying to make it into an ontic entity.

Are emotions ontic or not? The basis of every thought and understanding we have lies in an emotion. Is there truth in your emotions when you are on the war path which I am greatly enjoying (Thanks! Twisted Evil )?
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 1:32 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
For most people the emotions are primary. If that is how it is for you, then great. Keep it up.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 1:35 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What? Keep it up? It is who I am.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 1:36 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I won! cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 2:10 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Kindness shelters weakness.

Women and children, ideally.




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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 2:11 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
Kindness shelters weakness.

Women and children, ideally.


Sadly yes. I had higher hopes for them.

Some are better than that, though, true. Trump got a lot of votes from women, after all.

That is kindness right there. Haha.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 2:23 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasy wrote:
Sadly yes. I had higher hopes for them.

Not following your train of thought. Higher hopes for who? And how?
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 2:24 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
Thrasy wrote:
Sadly yes. I had higher hopes for them.

Not following your train of thought. Higher hopes for who? And how?

Women and children.

They need to be less..... not real.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 2:40 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Less kind children because it's not real?
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 4:27 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
the self-kindness of folly





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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 10:48 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
You two are confusing the Hell out of me by speaking in tongues for crying out loud. Were either of you possessed by the folly demon before your last few posts? Why is Jewel singing a song amidst a tragedy and not helping much? I don't get it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 10:57 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
No more parties in LA.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 1:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
I said attention, nothing of charity which denotes for me an aspect of materialism. A hug isn't charity, it's attention done in tune with the beat of my heart.

Yep. You said attention. I didn't speak to it.

But then, I have always been a good listener. And sometimes after listening I will offer advice and sometimes I won't. But I do not participate in "pity parties".
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 1:40 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Fuck kindness. I like truth more.

I don't know if I could have said that more clearly.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 4:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
You two are confusing the Hell out of me by speaking in tongues for crying out loud. Were either of you possessed by the folly demon before your last few posts? Why is Jewel singing a song amidst a tragedy and not helping much? I don't get it.

I posted it on account of her singing "in the end, only kindness matters" and "I will get down on my knees, and I will pray-hey"

I dont like that.

It's not true. Kindness is not the end-all, not anywhere close. Kill with kindness - have you heard of that expression? Its how most men these days get emasculated.

What matters, to a man anyway, above all things, is respect.
To be given it, but thats not the primary thing - to have someone to be able to give it to. That is what matters, what valuing is, what masculine self-valuing relies on at all times.

It's why I get so seething when I give my respect and it is received in a petty fashion. I hate it when my respect is revealed to be misplaced. Because I want to respect.



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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 4:30 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Kind Truths /// Unkind Truths

All is valuing, thus to a developed heart, love is always present. /// All is self-rooted and irreducible, so wherever there is love, there will be conflict. And also where there is no love.



...





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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 5:37 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:
You two are confusing the Hell out of me by speaking in tongues for crying out loud. Were either of you possessed by the folly demon before your last few posts? Why is Jewel singing a song amidst a tragedy and not helping much? I don't get it.

I posted it on account of her singing "in the end, only kindness matters" and "I will get down on my knees, and I will pray-hey"

I dont like that.

It's not true. Kindness is not the end-all, not anywhere close. Kill with kindness - have you heard of that expression? Its how most men these days get emasculated.

What matters, to a man anyway, above all things, is respect.
To be given it, but thats not the primary thing - to have someone to be able to give it to. That is what matters, what valuing is, what masculine self-valuing relies on at all times.

It's why I get so seething when I give my respect and it is received in a petty fashion. I hate it when my respect is revealed to be misplaced. Because I want to respect.

Yes and there is also another name killing with kindness, as cults and some women apply the technique, called "love bombing".



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 8:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ive been lovebombed all my life, hahahaha. Thanks, its good to have a word for this.
It goes like this: "Oh sweet how we love you, don't look so serious, we know that you aren't the silly pretentious fool you try to be, underneath is the real you, which loves us and wants what we want."

Thankfully my mother raised me to war, as did my grandmother - but still they couldn't help but succumb to the paradigm as well, since they could hardly bring into being a masculine culture out of nothing. My mother has very often expressed the desire to do just that, though. Her father was a warrior, first in deed against the nazis, then in word in parliament for the Communists;


(2:15, M Bakker)

for all his errors, which he later saw and kind of shrank under (he hated having been deluded by Stalin), he has always only uplifted. "Don't kneel. Never kneel." Those words he spoke as a 70 year old man finally daring to attempt to set foot in the great archnemesis of old, to a beggar in New York, as he yanked him upright. He was a wise man because he knew that the only thing worth fighting for is the will to fight. which, for a man, is health - but perhaps for a woman, it is kindness that is this health.

A woman is naturally kind to her warrior, as he comes home from the ravage - but she is naturally a bitch to her clerk-man who comes home from his office job. There aren't many warrior type jobs around - it's not the men who are to be blamed- who knows who is to be blamed and fuck them - it's the men who must alter this situation.



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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 8:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thus we invent the Righteous war, as men have always done -
but it gets harder with evolution for wars to be righteous.

Philosophy as art of war, we might want to call in Sauwelios, see if he will war with us.
Where it concerns Europe there isnt a better man to talk to right now.



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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 8:42 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Its interesting that my grandfather was a backbone of a movement that spread out into all the liberal directions that have brought about this bizarre mindless horde that feels deprived of the white house and needs therapy.

My other grandfather also heavily contributed to Liberalism, with his much published "Praise of Unadaptedness", which helped crowbar the dutch youths out of their parents sordid retro-Christian guilt-trip of the 1950's.

Both were fighting for good causes then, or so it seemed - they had their righteous wars, in any case. This praise of unadaptedness, it certainly premonitions the self-valuing logic - Ive not read it except a few pages, as I know it's too close.










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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 8:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
He was very kind man, Bakker. But not in the battlefield. He knew how to separate the two, the kindness and the zenith.

My other grandfather, Milikowski, not so much. I dont know if he was cruel before he went to the camps but the stories my father tells are rather sardonic.

I'd be sardonic if I lost the mother of my just born child at the greasy hands of a sausage-eater.



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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 8:52 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Odin is not kind.

But his creatures are.

"Make allies out of your nature!" "Prosper and multiply!"


Perhaps it is true that what respect is for a man, is kindness for a woman - it is, perhaps, the very best her nature has to offer.

"The sunlight was kind"

Men on the other hand if they are trustworthy may not appear all that kind at first.





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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 10:21 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Socialists love to kill with a smile. This seems especially true of men who become socialists. I am thinking of people like Marcuse, or Deleuze & Guattari, or Hardt & Negri, or Lacan and Zizek... all these "philosophers" are more or less legions in the socialist army, foot soldiers using truths as weapons against truth, and they make it seem interesting, deep, trendy, provocative, compassionate, daring, etc. etc.

In other words they do it by alternating a stern serious gaze with a soft-hearted smile of understanding.

What fucking nonsense.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 10:39 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
FC wrote:
Perhaps it is true that what respect is for a man, is kindness for a woman - it is, perhaps, the very best her nature has to offer.

Oh, that turn of phrase, "perhaps, the very best her nature has to offer" is insulting, as if a shortcoming. Nurturing with our attention is less than enough? Take that back!

Our attention is our respect, even when we're riled up, when it's sharing our anger or disgust. When our attention ceases, be very worried, your "value" lacks any further affect. These women mutate into the hard edges of men and lose their flexibility to not war for respect from all, all are seen as opposition to them.

Kindness, nurturing attention is our way to expressing freedom to our emotions which you guys have to know by now are paramount to our beings. I'm rambling.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 10:58 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I think it's a beautiful thing but I am not feminine enough to really understand it. Sure I have an anima and all, but it's more oriented on Persephonic and Demeterian emotions, or Saturn and Hades as companions. It's not an insult even though I had no choice to allow for the interpretation of condescension. It's more than men have to offer one another, okay? On general principle, a man will abandon all his friends and family for the right woman. If she's kind to his tastes and to him. It's not a bad thing, I respect Jewel, she's very good, but this phrase always nagged me.

So...look, if emotions are what you are made of, then kindness is indeed a kind of self-disciplining, a beautifying of oneself. If you say this comes from the emotions directly, then it means that the preconscious hones itself into kindness, and that is similar to how in men, it hones to respect -- or not.

I find this pleasing. I'm not ready to admit it's offensive as a concept, as I have some experience with women that try to go by the codes of men, and it is certainly not respect, what that amounts to. Just as little as it is kind.

A man will instinctively be kind to his child if it is acting interestingly, or if it is in sensible distress. It is not wise for him to be all playful and cuddly with it all the time. The Child will become insecure about life, which must be emulated by the father in its rock-like consistency.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:55 pm

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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 11:02 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
No, not rock, Sun-like. The father isn't always present, he comes and goes in a steady rhythm.

Viking fathers just went away to go away - they were bored, that is why they were fighting all the time. Too strong for the Earth. It's still a mystery how these people happened.

What was their kindness?
Why, in all their harshness, is there a hearth of softer will than we find in the masculine halls of peace?

What is the meaning of the Vestal Virgins?




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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 12:04 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Well, don't expect me to be understanding women. I was married three times and finally understood enough to know that I should not get married again.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 12:35 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Your nature outlines you. Your essence fills in that outline. Your self highlights both in the positive and the negative. Hopefully, more positive than negative. Negatives seem like the last resorts to me.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 12:38 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Well, don't expect me to be understanding women. I was married three times and finally understood enough to know that I should not get married again.

Out of fear? Razz
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 12:53 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
Your nature outlines you. Your essence fills in that outline. Your self highlights both in the positive and the negative. Hopefully, more positive than negative. Negatives seem like the last resorts to me.

Where is the You in this? Is it in the nature, the essence, or in the outline? What is negative, if not that which comes with the positive? Dualism is not done!

Thymos of Daemon.



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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 10:38 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:
Your nature outlines you. Your essence fills in that outline. Your self highlights both in the positive and the negative. Hopefully, more positive than negative. Negatives seem like the last resorts to me.

Where is the You in this? Is it in the nature, the essence, or in the outline? What is negative, if not that which comes with the positive? Dualism is not done!

The combination. Your nature defines the boundaries of what type of being you can be. *yawning* Fading fast. May have to turn in.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 1:08 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
Your nature outlines you. Your essence fills in that outline. Your self highlights both in the positive and the negative. Hopefully, more positive than negative. Negatives seem like the last resorts to me.

Oh, I have had lots of negatives. I'm pretty much beyond that now though.

Yes, my positives far our-weigh my negatives.

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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 1:09 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
Well, don't expect me to be understanding women. I was married three times and finally understood enough to know that I should not get married again.

Out of fear? Razz

No fear here dear.

Out of common sense.

As someone once said, common sense isn't nearly as common as we assume it would be.

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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 1:11 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:
Your nature outlines you. Your essence fills in that outline. Your self highlights both in the positive and the negative. Hopefully, more positive than negative. Negatives seem like the last resorts to me.

Where is the You in this? Is it in the nature, the essence, or in the outline? What is negative, if not that which comes with the positive? Dualism is not done!

Thymos of Daemon.

Dualism will never be done because our brain operates according to that process.

Essence is key. Essence will dictate our true nature. The outline is the only part that most others ever see.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 8:55 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The kindest are indeed the strongest, but not as Wendy intended the meaning. They are not strong because they are kind; they are kind because they are strong. Being conciliatory and gracious is the liberty of one being who has completely defeated another. True strength is gracious to those it defeats. Love is the same as grace, only much more so. I love the girl who teaches me something new about myself in my defeating her. I become kind. To those whose defeat teaches me nothing, I have disdain I suppose, or simply no reaction at all. Also, I always leave one corner of my heart opened up, vulnerable, I am kind in that way, for one must always spare a contingency and leave a path open for the enemy, especially in love- leaving a path forward to the enemy allows us to test his- or her arrogance and spirit, and without this no victory is possible, without that no strategy is enough.



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[ The Ecstasies of Zosimos, Tablet
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BTHYS TOU ANAHAT KHYA-PANDEMAI.


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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 9:06 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What you said about female attention being the same as respect... Yes, that reminds me of what I noted concerning the difference in male and female emotional engagement:


We- males, philosophize because we are daemonic, because we are divided from ourselves, torn, split, and transform one isolated part of ourselves into a symbol for the whole- that is what knowledge is, that is what the Ego is, that is what masculinity is- a part with whose image, with whose ego, we become hypnotized and intoxicated from power, and generate the libidinal excesses characteristic of our type. But females are still whole, before the apple of knowledge- they are still in the garden... they are the garden. Males above all else crave to expend our energy, on a project, we draw up a line and a goal and a value and dump all our excess libidinal reserve into it; we architect and philosophize a grand intellectual universe, etc. For philosophy caters to this masculine potency above all other things. But females desire something else. Something that may perhaps have not yet been reified by a social form as philosophy and art have reified the male ego and erotic impulse. Females instead crave a kind of emotional engagement [attention] with the world; and if their emotional existence is sterile and flat, they will even take negative intensity in emotions, thus they gravitate to abusive men, though they would still prefer intensely positive emotions. But intensely negative ones are preferable to flat, neutral, modest ones for them. It's hard as a male to even understand what this means, craving emotional engagement with the world, since our emotions are just things that happen to us, we don't intentionally create or cause them or participate in them, they are passive internal events to us.


If I agree with you too much, be uhm, kind with me, as you seem to have wanted an argument. But then again, perhaps I could initiate one by mentioning that the fact that I understand women isn't nearly as impressive as the fact that you understand women, being one yourself. Self-knowledge isn't exciting in females. You creatures have charms you do not understand; that is your charm. At least I assume from your name, otherwise I've thoroughly wasted an attempt at being amusing. You write like one.



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in formis perisseia mutilata in omnia perisarkos mutilatum;
omniformis protosseia immutilatum in protosarkos immutilata.

[ The Ecstasies of Zosimos, Tablet
the First.]

BTHYS TOU ANAHAT KHYA-PANDEMAI.


-- Hermaedion, in: the Liber Endumiaskia.


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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 9:28 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Beautiful, very moving actually.

Considering the serious possibility that this type of reification hasn't happened yet for woman, we can avant la lettre identify it as an achitecture of emotions.

Much as I see a Greek/Roman goddess, such as Artemis/Diana.




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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 9:34 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Beautiful, very moving actually.

Considering the serious possibility that this type of reification hasn't happened yet for woman, we can avant la lettre identify it as an achitecture of emotions.

Much as I see a Greek/Roman goddess, such as Artemis/Diana.



That's why I hate feminism, it gets in the way of that possibility, of true female emancipation.



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in formis perisseia mutilata in omnia perisarkos mutilatum;
omniformis protosseia immutilatum in protosarkos immutilata.

[ The Ecstasies of Zosimos, Tablet
the First.]

BTHYS TOU ANAHAT KHYA-PANDEMAI.


-- Hermaedion, in: the Liber Endumiaskia.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 9:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Parodites wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Beautiful, very moving actually.

Considering the serious possibility that this type of reification hasn't happened yet for woman, we can avant la lettre identify it as an achitecture of emotions.

Much as I see a Greek/Roman goddess, such as Artemis/Diana.



That's why I hate feminism, it gets in the way of that possibility, of true female emancipation.

It's so vile I can't even hate it. Whenever I feel a surge of hate for it, that's a good day, it mobilizes me to destroy some of it. Otherwise, I am just stunned by the baffling absurdity of its horrid existence.



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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 1:23 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Dualism will never be done because our brain operates according to that process.

Essence is key. Essence will dictate our true nature. The outline is the only part that most others ever see.

Yes, the outline is all surface stuff. Yes again, one's essence is key and I believe it eternal and unyielding once realized and re-realized, etc. throughout time. Our growth or lack of it is found in the highlights our self exemplifies in thoughts turned to actions. So you are way ahead of the game with a plethora of acknowledged positives.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 1:43 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
FC wrote:
Why, in all their harshness, is there a hearth of softer will than we find in the masculine halls of peace?

What a beautiful question, just jaw droppingly good.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 2:11 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Parodites wrote:
They are not strong because they are kind; they are kind because they are strong.

If you go around changing what I mean then we're going to have to war Twisted Evil , especially when that is my meaning, you're just flipping it to confuse me into thinking that is not what I meant. The Kindest People Are The Strongest (period, no inversions necessary). I can understand where you're coming from, bringing more kindness out of more strength, but I would say that kindness trumps all other qualities concerning the definition of strength. Stop trying to confuse me! Wink
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 2:27 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Parodites wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Beautiful, very moving actually.

Considering the serious possibility that this type of reification hasn't happened yet for woman, we can avant la lettre identify it as an achitecture of emotions.

Much as I see a Greek/Roman goddess, such as Artemis/Diana.



That's why I hate feminism, it gets in the way of that possibility, of true female emancipation.

It was beautiful as Fixed wrote. Feminism is rabid.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:02 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I will add here that I think kindness is learned and it isn't something we are born with. Survival trumps kindness.

And kindness must be re-enforced occasionally for it to remain in all people.

Some people never learn kindness. They can't learn it because of what they have previously learned. (Selfishness)

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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 5:15 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Some people learn kindness as a means to survival.
If you cant be strong, take care of yourself, be kind so that others will take care of you.



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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 6:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Some people learn kindness as a means to survival.
If you cant be strong, take care of yourself, be kind so that others will take care of you.

Sounds like a functional plan to me.
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:14 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Some people learn kindness as a means to survival.
If you cant be strong, take care of yourself, be kind so that others will take care of you.

What would all the elderly think of that? They do seem to be the kindest, the frauds!
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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:20 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Do they? Lol... never noticed especially. Some of them I guess make a big effort.

Children, theyre kind.



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PostSubject: Re: The Kindest People Are The Strongest The Kindest People Are The Strongest - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:21 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
They live in the bliss, if lucky I guess, of having their questioning valued by giants.







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PostSubject: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeSat Jan 21, 2017 2:12 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Contentment is NOT Peace.

Sisyphus, which side is your choosing? Please go for contentment *winking*
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 1:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
You are correct. Contentment in not peace. Seems a lot of people are content with being at war.

However, contentment is based in what each individual feels comfortable with.

Contentment = Having no unattainable desires, wants or needs.
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 3:09 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
And going by that definition, S, Id say peace and contentment are pretty close, if we talk about psychological states.

World-Contentment ... just a phrase comes to mind.

Many are indeed contented in war - but they aren't any less at peace in war.

A warrior is only at peace in a fight.

Is that a contradiction? I don't think so...

As I said it to a lesbian friend here, who enthusiastically repeated indefinitely it with her French accent, "Men must fight!"



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 5:40 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What matters is having the right kind of wars. Not the wrong kind.

But philosophy has so far gone nowhere near that insight, so I have no significant way of formulating it... yet.



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I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 8:05 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
What matters is having the right kind of wars. Not the wrong kind.

But philosophy has so far gone nowhere near that insight, so I have no significant way of formulating it... yet.

Brilliant insight.

I am promptly and powerfully pulled to Thucydides. I'll come back on this in a new thread.



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 10:06 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Why is my every thread to battle being circumvented with agreement and enlightenment that I have not fought for? Why do I inspire others so amicably? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 10:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
Why is my every thread to battle being circumvented with agreement and enlightenment that I have not fought for? Why do I inspire others so amicably? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Twisted Evil

Maybe you don't present enough of a challenge.



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Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 10:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Duh! I'm a Muse. I ignite you to rise to all challenges! But since you beg for more from me... Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeSun Jan 22, 2017 11:58 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
Why is my every thread to battle being circumvented with agreement and enlightenment that I have not fought for? Why do I inspire others so amicably? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Twisted Evil

Hehehe. But we can find peace within contentment, can't we?

FC mentioned the warrior; he is likely correct in that if a warrior has no battles to fight he feels his life is being wasted. No contentment in peace.

So what do you think about our "needs, wants and desires" having great influence on whether or not we attain contentment?

An the peace I am talking about is our internal peace, not being at peace with our externals. Our externals, after all, are constantly changing.
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 12:34 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
There is no peace with fears. True peace is when the inner and outer match, even if it is shortlived, but without being full of love and joy, there is always fear lurking inwardly.

Contentment is acceptance, balance. Peace is the step beyond mere contentment, it's the step into harmony, shifts into alignment with existence completely, interior/exterior.

Trick is how do you stay there?

For me, contentment is not difficult except when it comes to expectations in myself regarding others. I need to not blame others for falling short, only I can live up to my expectations, not others and sometimes my frustrations get the best of me and I project my failure to yield and be patient onto others as their failures to rise in my time frame.

So many concepts in there that I speak to often.

Fears: Full knowledge will almost always eliminate our fears. And many times fear transforms into respect.

I don't talk about love and joy. I leave that to the Buddhists and the New Agers.

Acceptance is a tricky one. There are many things that I will not accept in my life. But it is important to acknowledge their existence. Change what can be changed, accept the acceptable, and avoid those things that are unacceptable but we cannot change.

Harmony: I speak to this often. I have replaced balance with harmony. The reason is that everything is constantly changing. In order to maintain balance we have to constantly change as well. Harmony, on the other hand, only requires the addition or decrease of either yin (rest) or yang (activity). When yin and Yang are in harmony Chi can flow unobstructed.

Expectation: We should never place "our" expectations on others. So many negative consequences of doing that. In most cases we shouldn't even put expectations on our self. In our daily activities we simply do the best we can. In doing that we can ignore the duality of success and failure. We simply acknowledge the results and move on. No praise or blame.


However, I still haven't been able to disagree with you so that we can exercise your debate skills.

Now, if you tell me you use drugs or something like that I will get all over your ass.


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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 9:32 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It is indeed fruitless, or a cause of bad fruits, to expect other people to have the desire to live up to ones own standards. With the wisdom that a healthy person has his or her own standards, and will be in the act of trying to live up to them at all times, such bad fruits are no longer part of our lives.



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 9:34 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The only way we can get another person to satisfy our expectations is to go through the process of identifying that persons own values, and seeing if these are compatible with ours. Then we can frame our own expectations in terms of that persons values, and see if he/she 'buys it' - if it rings true to that person, if our standards are of any merit to their own.




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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 9:40 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fear is natural and necessary. It is our way of mobilizing against threats.

The eternal warrior spirit: dont fool yourself, fear will always haunt you at crucial moments, as it matters greatly whether you fail or succeed, whether you are true nor not. Therefore, only courage matters: the power to act despite fear.

As I said earlier somewhere: fear rules in the absence of taste, where(as) taste makes fear into an instrument of beauty.
Courage and Beauty are, as far as I'm concerned, at bottom the very same.



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 9:43 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
A man without fear is like a cat without a tail.



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 1:51 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Delete piece


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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 2:31 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
To agree with that would be dishonoring my murdered family.
I dont see torture victims as "where they need to be". Nor do I see the children being raped right now in that way.

That theory, I am well aware of it, it is the most dangerous part of new age. It puts the blame for the crime on the victim, no matter how young and helpless.



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 2:49 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
How are you connecting the two, murders/rapes and Peace, when you have yet to experience such Peace?
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 2:59 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

Wow.



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 3:10 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Such a state of peace would seem a rather dishonorable fate.


Lets not mention it again.



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:06 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
The only way we can get another person to satisfy our expectations is to go through the process of identifying that persons own values, and seeing if these are compatible with ours. Then we can frame our own expectations in terms of that persons values, and see if he/she 'buys it' - if it rings true to that person, if our standards are of any merit to their own.

That's where the ball is: What's in it for them?

If another sees no benefit in attaining expectations I have set then little or no effort will be expended at attain those expectations.
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:14 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Such a state of peace would seem a rather dishonorable fate.


Lets not mention it again.

Zizek makes this point understandable with reference to Buddhism and its idea that everything is part of a "cosmic dance" where even the knife in my hand is part of a larger movement of natural process that I am caught up in as I cosmically dance with you and a knife happens to make contact with your body but that is just part of "being at peace in the metaphysical moment" and not anything I am responsible for, since I was one with God while I did it.

Yes this "idea" is some of the lowest kind of trash you can find. Himmler apparently had this exact same philosophy. Suicide bombers too.



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Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning


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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:15 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Fear is natural and necessary. It is our way of mobilizing against threats.

The eternal warrior spirit: dont fool yourself, fear will always haunt you at crucial moments, as it matters greatly whether you fail or succeed, whether you are true nor not. Therefore, only courage matters: the power to act despite fear.

As I said earlier somewhere: fear rules in the absence of taste, where(as) taste makes fear into an instrument of beauty.
Courage and Beauty are, as far as I'm concerned, at bottom the very same.

I have spoken with others who have the same understanding as you have.

I do agree that when we are young there is a good purpose for fear. Survival.

But I still hold that fear can be reduced and even eliminated with knowledge and truth.

The fear of dying is silly because we all are going to die.

The Taoist Sage wanders the woods and fears not the tiger nor the rhino. Not because the Sage cannot be harmed but because the Sage is aware of the presence of the tiger and the rhino, (s)he knows what harm both can do and therefore remains out of harm's way.

Awareness!
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:16 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
A man without fear is like a cat without a tail.

Bobcats do quite well for themselves, thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:20 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
Harmony, an alignment with existence, is it's own protection, it's own understanding. No need of courage. You are who and where you are meant to be. Very metaphysical. I would say it's being in step with a God. You may not be the God but you walk together like one of them.

Yep. Harmony is a wondrous thing. It even allows enemies to be friends while conditions permit.

(I don't speak about gods very often as I know of none.)
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:57 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:28 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
To agree with that would be dishonoring my murdered family.
I dont see torture victims as "where they need to be". Nor do I see the children being raped right now in that way.

That theory, I am well aware of it, it is the most dangerous part of new age. It puts the blame for the crime on the victim, no matter how young and helpless.

Excellent point Fixed Cross and my heart goes out for your loss.

However, the past is written in stone; can't change that. What is at any given moment in time is exactly what it is. Can't really change that either. The future, however, is yet unknown. This is the only aspect of time that we have the possibility for changing.

Cause and effect still rule. But we have potential for adding cause or changing cause while it is reifying itself. Not all Taoists just sit on their ass and meditate. Some become "cause".
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:30 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The fact that the past cannot be changed, as far as we know, isn't any kind of mark against or devaluation of what happened in the past. It is no less real and significant for having already happened than for happening "right now".



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Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:31 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The new agey "be immersed in the Now" is effectively the philosophy of an ant, and would be a death sentence for human beings.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:33 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Such a state of peace would seem a rather dishonorable fate.


Lets not mention it again.

Zizek makes this point understandable with reference to Buddhism and its idea that everything is part of a "cosmic dance" where even the knife in my hand is part of a larger movement of natural process that I am caught up in as I cosmically dance with you and a knife happens to make contact with your body but that is just part of "being at peace in the metaphysical moment" and not anything I am responsible for, since I was one with God while I did it.

Yes this "idea" is some of the lowest kind of trash you can find. Himmler apparently had this exact same philosophy. Suicide bombers too.

I would make sure I have a larger knife than you have while we dance. I would also make sure I was more efficient than you are with its use.

And yes, your post refers to cosmic cause and effect. I sometimes throw marbles on the dance floor.
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
The fact that the past cannot be changed, as far as we know, isn't any kind of mark against or devaluation of what happened in the past. It is no less real and significant for having already happened than for happening "right now".

I was placing no judgement whatever regarding the past. (Sure, we can, but I won't right now.)

The important thing about the past is that we should learn from it.

To error is human; to make the same mistake over and over again is stupid.
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:39 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
The new agey "be immersed in the Now" is effectively the philosophy of an ant, and would be a death sentence for human beings.

From a certain perspective I completely agree with you. But this is why I place so much importance on awareness. We can be immersed in our now moment as long as we are aware of what is going on around us.
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:44 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
The new agey "be immersed in the Now" is effectively the philosophy of an ant, and would be a death sentence for human beings.

From a certain perspective I completely agree with you. But this is why I place so much importance on awareness. We can be immersed in our now moment as long as we are aware of what is going on around us.

Valuing being in the moment for its own sake is like valuing pleasure for its own sake-- it is empty, putting the cart before the horse. Being in the moment isn't bad just because valuing it for its own sake is bad, anymore than pleasure is bad just because some nihilistic hedonists abuse it.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 3:20 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:

Valuing being in the moment for its own sake is like valuing pleasure for its own sake-- it is empty, putting the cart before the horse. Being in the moment isn't bad just because valuing it for its own sake is bad, anymore than pleasure is bad just because some nihilistic hedonists abuse it.

Because of your opening phrase: "Valuing being in the moment for its own sake ..." I again must agree with you.

We Taoists have a concept that the Hippies grossly distorted. It is the concept of "wu wei", generally translated as "non-doing". The Hippies thought it meant don't do anything except use drugs and have sex. So very far from the target!

Imagine, if you will, a Taoist Sage sitting in meditation appearing to be nothing more than dead and cold ashes. This is the external appearance. (S)he is doing nothing because there is nothing that needs be done.

Yet, even in deep meditation the Sage is totally aware of what is going on around them. But if conditions require the Sag can spring forth with the strength and will of a tiger. They do what needs be done. nothing more but nothing less. And the springing forth is without any conscious intention; no alterior motive. Just doing what needs be done.

And the springing forth is also "being in the moment".

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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 3:31 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I read a description once from a Taoist about it too, the analogy was that the Taoist wades upstream in a river but moves so naturally with the currents that he doesn't disturb the natural flow of the water more than absolutely minimally necessary. Another I remember reading was that he can talk through a field without disturbing or breaking a single blade of grass.

May have been in this book, which is good: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/mobile/w/ ... 1110905557



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 4:41 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
I read a description once from a Taoist about it too, the analogy was that the Taoist wades upstream in a river but moves so naturally with the currents that he doesn't disturb the natural flow of the water more than absolutely minimally necessary. Another I remember reading was that he can talk through a field without disturbing or breaking a single blade of grass.

May have been in this book, which is good: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/mobile/w/ ... 1110905557

You done good.

The link, authored by Red Pine, a respectable translator of the Tao Te Ching.

Red Pine is Shamanistic/Alchemic Taoist in his translations, probably in "real" life as well.

I am a "Philosophical Taoist" so our understandings vary somewhat but not to the depths of the roots of Taoism.

It is said that the Sage can walk without leaving a trace. And that (s)he can visit foreign lands and be invisible (they adapt the customs of the common people therefore they are not noticed as being different).

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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 5:34 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Very interesting.

As a man of Odin, which is a kind of existential aesthetics, not a religion, I am bound to myself by 8 generations prior, and I welcome this "Wyrd", this spirit, as my own, as my quest, as the dark woods of my soul, in which I am privileged to wander.

I dont give a shit for my existence as 'in the moment'. Indeed, fuck the moment, fuck peace. I want substance, love, I want weight in my heart, I want people to fight for, to heal, to fight with, to struggle with, to learn from, to love, to remember, to suffer for, to be thankful for, to be confused by, to dream about, to encounter in myself - and I want a future, too, I want to play a role over many generations, - and as a philosopher, that is exactly what I have guaranteed for myself.

Value, and selfvaluing, both increase as we take on more time on our hearts. The weak and puny try to only think about their personal situation, whether they will suffer or not, the real will think about the whole world, and when they contemplate suffering, they contemplate actual, brutal suffering of the unfortunate. (Those who haven't 'earned Gods Universal Peace', I suppose).

The price for selfvaluing is a good deal of dread for ones fellow beings. If one cant tolerate such dread, one is no human, but a mere animal. Nietzsche's affirmation of the ER is only about being honest about mankinds suffering. Nietzsche was too honest - he took on more than his heart could handle. Which is noble in a sense, the opposite of the vile, cold, inhuman "new age-love" - but also unwise.

And no, it is by no means established that N went mad of syphilis - this appears to be mere propaganda. It is however possible, but this means nothing for what Ive said before - regardless of the circumstances that accompanied it, it is palpable in the Seven Seals that he snaps.

He snaps as he forces himself to affirm something that isn't logical.

The rationale of the ER is that, "in a universe of finite particles and infinite time, all particles will eternally be re arranged in the same fashion".

But the universe isn't made of finite particles, it isnt even made of particles. It's made of will to power, which directly negates isolated-particle theory. It's fucking bullshit. He succumbed to an inferior theory, and from that derived a religious answer, a substitute for eternity. He succumbed to wanting to affirm everything, whereas he has no power to discern/value everything. In occult terms, he crucified himself.



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 6:55 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Oh, Fixed Cross, I have already done all those things you mentioned plus some that you didn't mention and likely some that you haven't even thought about yet. Now it is my time to rest in peace with the Spirit of the Valley.

Regarding Nietzsche, no, there is n "proof" that he died of syphilis so I will try to not mention it again.

Your complaint of Nietzsche is similar to Albert Camus' complaint; that Nietzsche declared God dead but failed to find a replacement for God.

Your view is quite different from Camus' but the bottom line is pretty much the same.

But none of this effects my remaining to hold Nietzsche in high regard as he had the balls to question - most don't.



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 7:37 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Its not so much a complaint. I just dont agree with him on the ER and I think it did him in. Very possibly accompanied by syphilis, but I find such irrelevant. No offense taken though.

Yes I can see you are experienced with such things as I mentioned. I am not criticizing you.



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 7:39 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I've been at the threshold of this madness of affirming something irrational. I believe that indeed it can break a person's mind, if not their spirit.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 7:40 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Perhaps it's one or the other, if a person cannot manage to think themselves out of the threshold and back into truth: they either give up their spirit for the sake of their mind, or they give up their mind for the sake of their spirit. N obviously chose the latter.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 7:47 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hmmm, I feel thats pretty accurate.




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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 8:43 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Its not so much a complaint. I just dont agree with him on the ER and I think it did him in. Very possibly accompanied by syphilis, but I find such irrelevant. No offense taken though.

Yes I can see you are experienced with such things as I mentioned. I am not criticizing you.

I know you weren't criticizing me. I doubt that will ever be a problem even if you do criticize me. I've had happen to me many times before..

But I agree that Nietzsche didn't finish his work. Zarathustra should have become superman in his next novel titled "Zarathustra Furthermore Spoke".



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 8:45 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
I've been at the threshold of this madness of affirming something irrational. I believe that indeed it can break a person's mind, if not their spirit.

Interesting. I likely have too. (No confessions here.)

It causes inner conflict. We can never be at peace with our self when we have inner conflicts.
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 9:33 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Cognitive dissonance truly is a bitch.



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 10:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Cognitive dissonance truly is a bitch.

Thanks for the scientific name for it.

And yes, it is a bitch.

And actually, we experience it quite often when we learn something new that contradicts what we thought was the truth. We want to throw away the truth and keep believing what has given us comfort in the past.
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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 11:07 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Like how people react to VO. It's dissonant with everything they think is self-explanatory. They are in pain because of it.
And they often take it out on their repressed sexuality.

Ironically, VO describes just this - that they can't self-value in terms of VO, aka they cant value VO in terms of their selfvaluing.

Bizarrely, they are entirely predictable in this behavior by the very theory this behavior rejects. The irony of this situation has always blown me away, like truly given me blasts of awe for reality and embarrassment for them, from day 1 when I introduced it.

Some people are sparked into valuing it, and having it then as an expansion of their already phenomenon-oriented mind, whereas most are sparked in detesting the implication it has for them, namely that they should put more effort in valuing, (care, love, respect, attention, discernment, truthfulness, realism, determination, self-respect, self-love, self-care, etc) and they dont want this. Theyre nihilists! Close to 0 Kelvin in blood temperature, as a manner of speaking. VO is warm blooded logic. Forbidden fruit.

Cognitive dissonance produces totems, taboo-items in the mind. I, the creator of VO, have become such an item in the minds of those that hate the theory. It is predictable, but no less bizarre.

A bitch, truly.
Ive suffered it of course, but in 2007 in New York City I was able to melt it down into a giant mass of liquid steel. From that day forth I had the peace of an Architect of his own Mind


I then went into the filmacademy building and registered for a summer course. My world-vision, at that moment, must have been present somehow in my first exercise on celluloid.







Naw, it was just my view on cinema.



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 11:20 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
That's a heart, by the way there on the pavement. It's the meatpacking district, I bought something appropriate.

It didn't really come out as bloody on the grainy 16mm there in that urban shade.



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 11:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
So yeah, anyway, cognitive dissonance.

4 expressions throughout my life before I attained philosophy.











I liked it in a lot of ways. I find art harder to make now that Im spiritually coherent.



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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 12:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
So where were we? Searching for peace and contentment/ Yeah.

Must both be present? Can we have peace without being content? Can we be content without peace?

I feel that both are other supporting, that is, we won't have either without the other.

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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 2:21 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What all this bullshit should teach is that contentment and peace are pretty sickly aims for a man.

A woman may pursue them, but she will gladly plunge many into ruin for it.

Thats how it will always be.

Done. Its over quickly whenever I decide.




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PostSubject: Re: Contentment is NOT Peace Contentment is NOT Peace - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 5:11 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Well, Sir, it seems that since I disagree with you it is not over.

It is said that a man must know the masculine but hold to the feminine. That is to say, to know how to defend what needs defending yet to be able to rest in peace and contentment.

There is no point in being constantly active (yang) and wearing one's self into death. Better to live restfully and live to your full potential.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:58 pm

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PostSubject: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 6:13 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
No further desire.


Last edited by WendyDarling on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeMon Jan 23, 2017 10:14 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Does the Maverick Philosopher ring any bells? I browse his articles from time to time. Headaches arise when I read at length, so his works are ample to spin thoughts around. On his site the right hand side, there's a list of possible topics for our debate, but to be honest, some may require homework of me.

His site:http://maverickphilosopher.typepad.com/maverick_philosopher/
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:21 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
There are no thought police here. Say what to use want and be prepared to be called out when it is inaccurate or stupid.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:21 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Posts may be removed for severely violating aesthetic taste. That isn't "censorship". Otherwise, have fun trying to defend your ideas, if you can.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:48 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
If you haven't noticed our "Contentment is not _____" thread has been beheaded with righteous indignation by one who lacks understanding.

I have been told not to mention ________ again.

Any other ideas of debatable topics that won't cause the thought police to shut our discussion down?

Funny in a strange kind of way, isn't it. We cannot find any reason to disagree with each other even though we really are trying.

"Peace and Contentment" is in my signature block at the Taoist forum.

I'm sure as time goes by we will find a concept that we have differing understanding of.

I am an Atheist and an Anarchist. Do you have any problem with that?
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
Does the Maverick Philosopher ring any bells? I browse his articles from time to time. Headaches arise when I read at length, so his works are ample to spin thoughts around. On his site the right hand side, there's a list of possible topics for our debate, but to be honest, some may require homework of me.

His site:http://maverickphilosopher.typepad.com/maverick_philosopher/

I took a short peek. Seems to be an interesting site. I have never viewed it before.

A topic of great disagreement is abortion. And the Maverick does mention Trumps opinion regarding it. I have my opinions. Do you have any? (I'm not stating mine right now as I do not want to influence any possible discussion.)

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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 3:00 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
There are no thought police here. Say what to use want and be prepared to be called out when it is inaccurate or stupid.

I respect that. I don't mind being called out but I do mind being told what I can and cannot say before being given the opportunity to defend what I have said.
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 3:05 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Posts may be removed for severely violating aesthetic taste. That isn't "censorship". Otherwise, have fun trying to defend your ideas, if you can.

I don't agree with the removal of post prior to being given the opportunity to either defend what has been said or the chance to modify the post so that it is acceptable.

Free speech brings out many prejudices many of us have. Without being challenged for what we say (type) here we will never have the opportunity to question our self and our prejudices.

Now, I agree that "free speech" is not totally free. There are limits everywhere in the universe. But we should know where the limits are so that we know when/if we are trying to violate the limits.
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 3:51 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
By offensive to aesthetic taste I basically mean trolling.

Serious ideas will be given equally serious treatment. Sometimes that means mockery. But such is still in the spirit of truth. And there is something of an art in good insult, after all. Ideas are respected here, but if there is nothing backing up the idea then that will be pointed out.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 4:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
By offensive to aesthetic taste I basically mean trolling.

Serious ideas will be given equally serious treatment. Sometimes that means mockery. But such is still in the spirit of truth. And there is something of an art in good insult, after all. Ideas are respected here, but if there is nothing backing up the idea then that will be pointed out.

Fair enough. I really don't know what happened and really don't care to know.

At the Taoist forum I have been, on a number of occasions, accused of trolling. In truth, what I am doing is seeking out alternative perspectives, alternate understandings.

I agree that personal insults should not be tolerated. They take the discussion totally off topic and they inspire negative emotions.

However, I will never hold back from disagreeing if I have a supportable different understanding of a concept.

WendyDarling is trying to build upon her ability to logically argue a concept. Maybe she stepped over into the area of personal insult, I don't know. This should never happen. Insult the concept but not the person.

At the Taoist forum we have a large number of Buddhists and New Agers and I have had to call "bullshit" on what was said many times. Only once did I resort to a personal insult and that was only because the person was telling lies about me. (I got suspended for three days. Hehehe. The suspension was because I would not edit my post until I was sure that another person involved had seen my rebuttal post.)

But anyhow, I hope that WendyDarling will be able to get experience at respectful debate and be able to disagree with what was said but still be respectful to the person who said it.

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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:05 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Personal insults made by me? What? Tsk, tsk. Didn't happen.


Whatever, that thread is dead to me anyhows.
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 2:09 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
.


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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 4:09 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Killing a baby that is 8 or 9 months along is clearly murder.

Killing an clump of stem cells that is 8 or 9 days along is clearly not murder.

Killing anything that will likely someday develop into a living sentient being, even if at present it isn't yet a living sentient being, is obviously logically problematic.

Beyond that, it's just corollary values that defines where someone falls on the issue of abortion. No one really cares about finding a philosophical ground on the issue, their position is basically mandated by the sum total of the rest of what they believe or what kind of person they want to think they are, given those other beliefs.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning


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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 4:10 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Abortion isn't a real issue, that is why it makes people so fucking stupid.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 4:18 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I know. It's the support structures of the pregnancy that most lack which ends the pregnancy.
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.


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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 5:02 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This thread is for reasonable folks who wish to discuss topics rather than throw a blanket party for a person with a belief. A blanket party is when a blanket is thrown over a target to surprise and disorient the target while a gang who seeks vengeance beats the Fuck out of the unsuspecting target. No their vengeance need not be justified. Some targets are beaten until unconscious or dead. Some call this behavior of blanket parties philosophy.


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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 5:06 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This forum is intended for things we dont tend to do here, such as cursing. If you want to go there, we can.

You are quite insolent as Ive already told you, but you make up for this in all sorts of things.

I will leave you to discuss your feelings with yourself through others, I wont try to disrupt them with any contributions, youve shown incapable of responding to them compassionately, or rationally.



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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 5:07 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Questions that cause blanket parties, yes that is highly compassionate to answer with your blanket of silence.


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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 5:08 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Nazi-collaborating nihilist idiot....

Fuck off from my forum.



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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 12:35 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
WendyDarling wrote:
Personal insults made by me? What? Tsk, tsk. Didn't happen.


Whatever, that thread is dead to me anyhows.

I just had no freakin' idea of what happened. I should just let it go.
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 12:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Killing a baby that is 8 or 9 months along is clearly murder.

Killing an clump of stem cells that is 8 or 9 days along is clearly not murder.

Killing anything that will likely someday develop into a living sentient being, even if at present it isn't yet a living sentient being, is obviously logically problematic.

Beyond that, it's just corollary values that defines where someone falls on the issue of abortion. No one really cares about finding a philosophical ground on the issue, their position is basically mandated by the sum total of the rest of what they believe or what kind of person they want to think they are, given those other beliefs.

Valid points. I think that if the decision to have an abortion hasn't been made within three months of pregnancy having an abortion should no longer be considered.




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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 12:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
We seem to have one foot nailed to the floor in this thread and all we are doing is going in circles.

And I have noticed that things have become personal and that is always the beginning of bed endings.

I am not pro or anti abortion. I am a supporter of the woman's right to make her own choices.

I believe the government has no right to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body.

But then, I believe that the government should not be directly funding abortions.

Abortion is a matter of health care, not government policy.
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 1:05 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
Killing a baby that is 8 or 9 months along is clearly murder.

Killing an clump of stem cells that is 8 or 9 days along is clearly not murder.

Killing anything that will likely someday develop into a living sentient being, even if at present it isn't yet a living sentient being, is obviously logically problematic.

Beyond that, it's just corollary values that defines where someone falls on the issue of abortion. No one really cares about finding a philosophical ground on the issue, their position is basically mandated by the sum total of the rest of what they believe or what kind of person they want to think they are, given those other beliefs.

Valid points. I think that if the decision to have an abortion hasn't been made within three months of pregnancy having an abortion should no longer be considered.

Agreed.

You have 3 months to decide to abort. After that, you can give up for adoption if you don't want the baby.

See how easy that was?



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 3:11 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Legal abortion access for the first trimester. Capital punishment for abortion after that.

Seems like most of us can live with that?

Of course sjw's will still demand free abortions, because somehow they shouldn't have to pay for their own medical procedures like the rest of us have to do. That's bullshit. If you can't afford to have an abortion then just give up the baby for adoption; if you can't afford to go through pregnancy at all then you have no business having sex and procreating.

I'll make exceptions for welfare safety nets for the bottom whatever % of income earners to get subsidized healthcare, naturally. But no one should ever get it for free.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning


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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 3:13 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Anyone who says they have a "right to their body" which must include abortions up to the moment of delivery, should be forcibly neutered. For the exact same reason that we don't allow someone known to be homicidal to legally purchase firearms.

Claiming a "right" to late-term abortion is no different than premeditated murder.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 3:24 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I stopped the video before the last 40 seconds, I simply cannot expose myself to such things.

Proceed at your own risk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yyBy0RLAzI&app=desktop



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning


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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 3:28 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This is the American left now. Witness their depravity. I remember when this story broke, the media didn't touch it for about 2 days, then suddenly all mainstream media was on fire with scathing rebuke of this "illegal video" that deliberately skews the truth by "editing" the comments of the woman on tape, along with defenses of how Planned Parenthood only "donates" fetal tissue for "scientific research" and only asks a small compensation for their effort in doing so, just to cover costs of course, and how it's all perfectly legal.

I don't know how to be in this society anymore. Liberalism-leftism is, among other things, a useful blinder to the reality we now live in. But wearing that blinder only makes one part of the very problem that one is blinding oneself to.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 3:30 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Apologies for how that video has that image as the default picture before you start watching. I'll edit my post so only the link is there, proceed at your own risk.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 4:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Jesus Christ.

For someone to want to do such things, can you imagine what their internal world is like?

Their hearts must feel like cans of rotting dog-food.

I once had a can of rotten cat food explode in my kitchen. That's pretty much what this all smells like.



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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 5:14 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:


Agreed.

You have 3 months to decide to abort. After that, you can give up for adoption if you don't want the baby.

See how easy that was?

Most things in life are easy if we know how to do them.
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 5:19 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Anyone who says they have a "right to their body" which must include abortions up to the moment of delivery, should be forcibly neutered. For the exact same reason that we don't allow someone known to be homicidal to legally purchase firearms.

Claiming a "right" to late-term abortion is no different than premeditated murder.

You have no idea how closely I agree with you in this regard.

Some people are so fucking stupid that they need to be neutered so they can bear no off-spring. And this include any population that has a growth rate of more than two children.

I actually thought China's birth control attempts were a good first try. But the one child policy was just too demanding on the people.
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 6:17 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I was only half-serious of course.

Government restriction on how man a kids you can have or what gender kids you can have is pure fascism. I can't see an anarchist supporting such things.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 10:54 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
I was only half-serious of course.

Government restriction on how man a kids you can have or what gender kids you can have is pure fascism. I can't see an anarchist supporting such things.

I was almost all serious. The beauty of my philosophy is that I have many labels and I place different ones on my forehead when needed.

It is my opinion that the planet is over-populated with humans and this is directly causing the extinction of many other species.

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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 12:24 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
I was only half-serious of course.

Government restriction on how man a kids you can have or what gender kids you can have is pure fascism. I can't see an anarchist supporting such things.

I was almost all serious. The beauty of my philosophy is that I have many labels and I place different ones on my forehead when needed.

It is my opinion that the planet is over-populated with humans and this is directly causing the extinction of many other species.


Other species do not matter as much as we do. Obviously we are humans, so we are going to self-value in terms of being human, as we should. Granted that other species are valuable, not just to us but inherently in themselves as well... just not as valuable as we are. Also you gotta remember that 99% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct. Extinctions happen, whether we are here or not. And extinction is a necessary part of speciation.

As for overpopulation, I don't believe that. Some places are overpopulated for various reasons, that is true, but as a whole the earth is just fine. We could sustain 20 billion people with no problems if our fucking political and economic ideas were just a little better -- if the caliber of the average voter was such that he/she demanded more from their elected leaders, and held them accountable.

Technology can solve just about any problem we have. Overpopulation leads to shortages of energy, water, food, and material resources -- so what? Technology and an expanding, free capitalist economy can easily handle that because such an economy will naturally produce the technologies that meet demands and needs, and even more so because such an economy is actually able to see stresses and problems in the system as positives, as potential areas of growth and gain. No other economic form can do that. Hell, we can ramp up space colonization, we can colonize the moon, we can build artificial floating cities in the oceans, we can build massive 100 story complexes where each level is a self-sustaining city, we can use technologies to clean our atmosphere and water, we can also use technology to produce clean energy and water, and meet food and resource needs. But it isn't going to come from socialism, it is going to come from a free enterprise-based market kind of economy that also has strong legal protections to ensure equal playing fields and equality for all before the law, and for that to get in place and keep going you need a well-informed and interested citizenry. Socialism breeds stupidity, apathy, avarice and immaturity among its citizens.

People have been crying about overpopulation and global warming and water shortage and everything else forever. The only way to fix it is to move forward with the best possible systems and ideas we can manage to create. The way is not to impose China-like fascist restrictions on people's natural right to have children and raise a family. Once you allow that you're into Brave New World and 1984 and there is no turning back.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 12:48 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:

Other species do not matter as much as we do.

Nice to see you have firm opinions regarding the subject.

Obviously mine are different.

But some of what you said is valid. Better usage of the resources of the planet would help a lot.

But regardless of our differences of opinion, we humans have a lot of work to do if we are going to save the planet for future generations.
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 2:32 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
We are human beings. Why should a squirrel or a snail or a giraffe matter to us as much as... other human beings? What is it about "life" that is worthy of our respect and value? If we break that down honestly I think we see that humanity is the peak of value on the earth. All these anti-natalists and deep ecologists are just shallow nihilists who are in denial not only about what is true value and from where it comes but also are in denial about how to actually fix the problems of environment and energy use. Taking humanity back to the stoneage and/or murdering 6 billion people aren't fucking options.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning


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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 2:34 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Anti-natalist and deep ecologist nihilism is pseudo-philosophy. Also such people should just admit they are pissed off or are misanthropes and accept personal responaibility for their animus instead of trying to project it onto the entire species. Philosophy helps ground the self in moments of such extreme negative pathos and pain.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 4:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
We are human beings. Why should a squirrel or a snail or a giraffe matter to us as much as... other human beings? What is it about "life" that is worthy of our respect and value? If we break that down honestly I think we see that humanity is the peak of value on the earth. All these anti-natalists and deep ecologists are just shallow nihilists who are in denial not only about what is true value and from where it comes but also are in denial about how to actually fix the problems of environment and energy use. Taking humanity back to the stoneage and/or murdering 6 billion people aren't fucking options.

Not for nothing, but I could see myself sacrificing a hundred thousand unthinking humans for a single squirrel.
We disagree radically on the value of animals, and I disagree with most 'non pagan' westerners on this. I do not see humans as higher than other mammals, period. Except if they are philosophers, whereas actually, to me this only means they attain to the purity of a proper mammal.
Sure its on a higher arc, but in the first place the purity matters.

I often spend hours watching a single squirrel, in pure overwhelming love and admiration for its joyuful and deeply elegant self sufficiency. I only feel comparably powerful emotion for a woman when I am in love. Id feel it for my child.



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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 4:27 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Only some humans attain the full status of mammal. Very few of people who voted for Clontin I would consider to be in the same range of worth as the average mammal, and I don't think any of them in the same range as a cat.

Still, I appreciate normal humans, even if less than cats or squirrels or ravens, with whom I always instantly feel a deep love and kinship.

My standard for valuing creatures is not any category, but just intensity of valuing. Sharpness, keenness toward Value. That all I care about in beings. I dont give a crap for their supposed category.

I think we've seen proven my thesis of 2011 that "humanity" isnt a coherent species. I said then that I see most people walking by, not existing. Weve seen the truth of this observation play out the past months.

Our work is species-building.



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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 4:42 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Precisely because a human can screw up its own value and values (whereas a squirrel can't really do that, because it already "is what it is") is why I see humans so highly. The fact we can be immoral and stupid in ways other animals cannot indicates our higher status.

But I'm not meaning to degrade other life, and it's ok that we disagree on this issue in any case.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 4:47 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Precisely because a human can screw up its own value and values (whereas a squirrel can't really do that, because it already "is what it is") is why I see humans so highly. The fact we can be immoral and stupid in ways other animals cannot indicates our higher status.

But I'm not meaning to degrade other life, and it's ok that we disagree on this issue in any case.

Yes, as I can value your standard of possibility and risk indeed as something higher.

I will divide the term humanity up in two new terms:

manifest humanity and human potential.

A chunk of human potential, i.e. a human being judged in terms of what theoretically this human can go through, is worth a lot. If that potential is likely to be activated.

A piece of manifest humanity can be worth any sort of thing, positive and negative. Usually, manifest humanity appears to me as worth less than manifest mammality. But here in Montreal, it appears on the same level. And in 1996, in still wild New York in the snowstorm, the humanity was superior for my heart to any animal.



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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 5:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
We are human beings. Why should a squirrel or a snail or a giraffe matter to us as much as... other human beings? What is it about "life" that is worthy of our respect and value? If we break that down honestly I think we see that humanity is the peak of value on the earth. All these anti-natalists and deep ecologists are just shallow nihilists who are in denial not only about what is true value and from where it comes but also are in denial about how to actually fix the problems of environment and energy use. Taking humanity back to the stoneage and/or murdering 6 billion people aren't fucking options.

I see we will never agree regarding this concept.

All living things at an expression of the universe. All living things have the same value. The dinosaurs were around for 150 million years. The most we can give humans is 4 million years. The crocodile is basically unchanged over the past 150 million years because it has become all it needs to be. We humans fall far short in this regard.
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 5:41 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Anti-natalist and deep ecologist nihilism is pseudo-philosophy. Also such people should just admit they are pissed off or are misanthropes and accept personal responaibility for their animus instead of trying to project it onto the entire species. Philosophy helps ground the self in moments of such extreme negative pathos and pain.

So you think that saying all species have a right to live and follow whatever natural path their species must travel?

Humans are the only ones who are not satisfied with the universe. Constantly trying to change the processes of nature. And when we try we normally screw thing up big time.
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Fixed Cross wrote:
Only some humans attain the full status of mammal.

Yep. A vast number remain vegetable.
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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 5:44 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Siberian_tiger_as_totem_by_ravenari

https://2img.net/h/orig06.deviantart.ne ... venari.jpg

Few humans can selfvalue like such animals.

This is why humans value such animals, why their art orients on it.

https://2img.net/h/www.universeofsymbol ... tigers.jpg

For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 1tigers

We've got a long road to go as humans. My philosophers heart is an arrow toward this kind of happiness for all of our kind.

For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Aslan-2

https://2img.net/h/www.universeofsymbol ... slan-2.jpg

I mean philosopher-kind.



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PostSubject: Re: For Sisyphus Only! For Sisyphus Only! - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 5:51 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Nicely done FC.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:02 pm

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PostSubject: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 4:05 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I may actually hate people, I mean at a visceral level. Not all people of course, but by default and until proven otherwise. This is a new feeling for me.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 4:13 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"burned by his own impotence," he would burn others. That kind of hate?
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 4:26 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I prefer cats, certainly, and elephants! People can be grand, or rather humans can be, but "people" never have had my taste drawn to them... no. People... "The People" is a nifty concept. But it took a genius bunch of aristocratic white male slave owning occultists to use it constructively.



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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 4:31 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This is how Ive grown up to know the essence of people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EhZj6Smwuk

together with the Iraq-Iran war.



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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 4:41 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Or their hate easily triggers your hate? A welcomed cycle of vicious circumstance?
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 4:47 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Relatively accurate situation concerning people.





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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 4:48 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
A people situation





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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 4:55 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It's not for nothing that nature came up with human leadership. "People" as a group situation represent incompetence.



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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 11:44 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The real nature of "people" is right now revealed more openly than I have ever seen. Usually it hides in the background out of embarrassment, yet right now "people" are free to openly be the braindead reactive Nazis that they really are. They think their pop culture media leftie gods have sanctioned it, their shame is gone. I am thankful for this, because now I can see their nature so clearly.




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Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2017 11:44 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Mindlessness should be a felony.



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Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 12:34 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The way that "people's" thinking goes today:

Step 1: "If one major news media company says it, it is most likely true."
Step 2: "If 4-5 or more major news media companies say it, it is absolutely 100% true beyond doubt."


Somewhere in there they contour up delusions that they can still be skeptical and free-thinking, I suppose during the "most likely true" part.



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Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 12:52 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
I may actually hate people, I mean at a visceral level. Not all people of course, but by default and until proven otherwise. This is a new feeling for me.

Hate is such a nasty emotion. I speak to this often. Hate will destroy us from the inside out. This emotion should be avoided, absolute.

However, I understand hw easy it is to acquire hatred for something or someone. But this energy that is growing hatred should be used for other things, for example, minimalizing what we begin to hate, or learning how to circumvent what it is that causes us hatred.

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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 12:54 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
It's not for nothing that nature came up with human leadership. "People" as a group situation represent incompetence.

A fact, I think. This is why I avoid crowds as often as I can.
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 12:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
The way that "people's" thinking goes today:

Step 1: "If one major news media company says it, it is most likely true."
Step 2: "If 4-5 or more major news media companies say it, it is absolutely 100% true beyond doubt."


Somewhere in there they contour up delusions that they can still be skeptical and free-thinking, I suppose during the "most likely true" part.

I live in the mental state of "Show Me".

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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 1:03 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
The way that "people's" thinking goes today:

Step 1: "If one major news media company says it, it is most likely true."
Step 2: "If 4-5 or more major news media companies say it, it is absolutely 100% true beyond doubt."


Somewhere in there they contour up delusions that they can still be skeptical and free-thinking, I suppose during the "most likely true" part.

I live in the mental state of "Show Me".


Most people are idiots. Glad you're not one of them, since you're here.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 1:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
I may actually hate people, I mean at a visceral level. Not all people of course, but by default and until proven otherwise. This is a new feeling for me.

Hate is such a nasty emotion. I speak to this often. Hate will destroy us from the inside out. This emotion should be avoided, absolute.

However, I understand hw easy it is to acquire hatred for something or someone. But this energy that is growing hatred should be used for other things, for example, minimalizing what we begin to hate, or learning how to circumvent what it is that causes us hatred.



Not sure how you can avoid hating the fact that humanity can so easily be made to devolve into an Orwellian nightmare.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 2:10 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hate, loathing, contempt, disgust, sheer disbelief a low standards, all this is natural to feel for these beings as one discerns their natures. To respect them is selfrape.

They lack a heart, in the sense that they arent informed by truth, humanity, consequence, life or love. These things are unaccessible to them.

They are zombies. Do you think they know what a newscorporation is? All they know is what is most comfortable.

They dont think what the tv tells them is differentiated from what they are allowed to feel. "God is in the tv" - Manson wasnt wrong.




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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 4:58 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:


Most people are idiots. Glad you're not one of them, since you're here.

We'll just call that compliment. Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 5:02 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:

Not sure how you can avoid hating the fact that humanity can so easily be made to devolve into an Orwellian nightmare.

That requires a lot of experiences and then a lot of mental training.

Mine's not perfect and likely never will be but what I have so far accomplished has allowed me peaceful times, especially when I am at home.

I watch a lot of nature programs and I am convinced that many "wild" animals are more humane that are many humans.
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 5:07 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Hate, loathing, contempt, disgust, sheer disbelief a low standards, all this is natural to feel for these beings as one discerns their natures. To respect them is selfrape.

They lack a heart, in the sense that they arent informed by truth, humanity, consequence, life or love. These things are unaccessible to them.

They are zombies. Do you think they know what a newscorporation is? All they know is what is most comfortable.

They dont think what the tv tells them is differentiated from what they are allowed to feel. "God is in the tv" - Manson wasnt wrong.


Yeah, all those negative emotions. What's the value of life living with all those negatives?

It has been sad that the pure man is without emotions. I could never attain such a state because I love my positive emotions. Of course, that requires me to deal with the negative ones when they do arise.

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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 5:11 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I don't believe that any emotion is inherently positive or negative. There is a proper and logical time and place for each emotion.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeWed Jan 25, 2017 5:21 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
I don't believe that any emotion is inherently positive or negative. There is a proper and logical time and place for each emotion.

Nice thoughts. But then, I disagree.
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 4:40 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Trouble is, "mankind" is not a cohesive species. So any attempt to value all humans in terms of one overarching standard ("Humanity") actually is cognitive dissonance.

Rather than a species, humanity is a template, from which different species are self-generating all the time. Humanity is like... mineral rich clay in a wet electrical environment. It can become anything. It's not a species, it's a material.



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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 4:44 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes that is an interesting perspective to hold. Let me think about this some more.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 4:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yeah I think it fits in pretty seamlessly with your notion of humanity as potential and risk.

It also points to why so often humanity has brought forth specimens ('agents') that express the need to overcome and to rise above the default state with such intense urgency. And why these messages really outlive individual humans and even assemble them in types and groups and behaviors.





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Fixed Cross wrote:
Yeah I think it fits in pretty seamlessly with your notion of humanity as potential and risk.

Yep. Neanderthal genes remain very dominant in many.
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 6:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Parodites had a fascinating expose on Neanderthals some months back, from which it appeared they lost out due to being too complex.

In any case no fair blaming it all on these guys. We beat them, and that cant have been very peaceful.



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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 11:48 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Parodites had a fascinating expose on Neanderthals some months back, from which it appeared they lost out due to being too complex.

In any case no fair blaming it all on these guys. We beat them, and that cant have been very peaceful.

The best reason I have heard for their demise is that their vocalization was inferior. That would mean they wouldn't be able to talk well and share ideas.

Most people have Neanderthal DNA. Africans who never migrated out of Africa have the least, European Caucasians have the most. Apparently there was some hanky panky going on.
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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 12:53 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Strikingly, Neanderthal, or "Valley of Neander", is around the region of the Netherlands.

Not only are the Dutch relatively Neanderthal like, they also seem to have more trouble vocalizing their being than most other cultures.
My english has become somewhat palpable, but it took me 25 years to get there from the guttural Dutch, which speaks the profoundest earth and wood you'll ever smell in a language, if you get into its caves.

De grond onder mn voeten doet me oetelen Hans, geef me nog een koekjeskrans.



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PostSubject: Re: I think I'm a misanthrope I think I'm a misanthrope - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2017 12:27 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I did two tours in Germany and managed to visit all the areas of the West. And I agree, in many of the peoples of the Germanic areas you can easily see Neanderthal physical traits.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:03 pm

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I'm honestly pretty excited. It came as a thunderbolt out of a clear sky and yet it is the perfect consequence of what Ive been doing.

Philosophy truly is the essence of friendship.





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PostSubject: Google no longer works Google no longer works Icon_minitimeSun Jan 08, 2017 12:48 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Google is broken, or rather I suspect, intentionally malfunctioned. You can figure this out if you search around a little. You get a few strange results along with the most popular paid-for webpages, and that's it. The search results end often enough after just a page or two, which is obviously not truthful. And if you image search, it maxes out around 700 images, after which there are apparently no more results on the entire internet.

I've observed some strange results at times, including when I searched for "electoral college total" and similar phrasing, I was not able to actually find the official electoral college numbers. But if you search for "size of Mars" or anything that has an obvious numerical answer, it not only finds many pages with the answer but actually just displays the answer at the top right there for you.

My conclusion is that whoever is running Google now has turned the site into a propaganda machine, and the search results can no longer be trusted to accurately reflect what is actually out there on the internet.

In which case, does anyone know of a different search engine that we should start using?



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I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Google no longer works Google no longer works Icon_minitimeSun Jan 08, 2017 2:34 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I was about to google it. Then I laughed. I can't go there now.



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PostSubject: Re: Google no longer works Google no longer works Icon_minitimeSun Jan 08, 2017 6:47 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Crap, dogpile.com use to be the cool slush fund search engine(of the '90's), but it looks to have been bought by google since its advertising a chrome version too.
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PostSubject: Re: Google no longer works Google no longer works Icon_minitimeSun Jan 08, 2017 11:02 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This computer has always been linked with Bing. I've had no reason to change it.
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PostSubject: Re: Google no longer works Google no longer works Icon_minitimeMon Feb 06, 2017 12:54 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
As I was saying in the other thread, it's all propaganda now; Wikipedia, twitter, facebook, youtube. It's all run by the same fucks.



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PostSubject: Re: Google no longer works Google no longer works Icon_minitimeMon Feb 06, 2017 8:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
And these same fucks have destroyed another feeble soul around me like they once destroyed Tom - it is striking in my family too.
It is a full scale branwash operation and they should be really proud of the hundreds of millions of bastards theyve robbed of their soul. It's an accomplishment, though of course it could never lead to any benefit for anyone. All cash gained by this operation is tainted and troubled and just very expensive. These schemes dont work. They only buy you stress.

Like something Hyde said, when they die, they should be relaxed, you dont want them to be dying while all stressed out.



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PostSubject: Re: Google no longer works Google no longer works Icon_minitimeMon Feb 06, 2017 9:27 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Welcome to The New Age Order.
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PostSubject: Re: Google no longer works Google no longer works Icon_minitimeMon Feb 06, 2017 11:01 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Welcome to The New Age Order.

No, it's been here, Trump's just exposed it: So he can kill it.

Welcome to the New Trump Order.


He is the establishment's reckoning. WITH NO SURVIVORS.



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omniformis protosseia immutilatum in protosarkos immutilata.

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PostSubject: Re: Google no longer works Google no longer works Icon_minitimeMon Feb 06, 2017 11:46 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yeah, it seems he is taking no prisoners.
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PostSubject: Re: Google no longer works Google no longer works Icon_minitimeTue Feb 07, 2017 5:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Google and Facebook are teaming up to police news with French media ahead of the French elections in the spring. Jesus, this is a fucking war.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Google no longer works Google no longer works Icon_minitimeTue Feb 07, 2017 6:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Jesus, this is a fucking war.

You ain't seen nothing yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Google no longer works Google no longer works Icon_minitimeTue Feb 07, 2017 11:02 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
AN INFOWAR


50 PERCENT OFF SUPER MALE VITALITY AT INFOWARS DOT COM



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PostSubject: Re: Google no longer works Google no longer works Icon_minitimeTue Feb 07, 2017 11:14 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Parodites wrote:
AN INFOWAR


50 PERCENT OFF SUPER MALE VITALITY AT INFOWARS DOT COM

FREE SHIPPING, THATS BIG!!



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PostSubject: Re: Google no longer works Google no longer works Icon_minitimeTue Feb 07, 2017 11:16 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I ended up watching several hours of that broadcast of election night.
It was cool, except Jones is obviously taking too much of his own medicine, and he was always embarrassing his guest with his ill timed reverting to self-advertising, distracting from the disbelief and joy over the victory. But it was good to see, and there was a lot of good information being shared.



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PostSubject: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeThu Feb 09, 2017 9:26 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This is a response to Alex Jones calling on his viewers here to create their own independent newsoutlets, so as to destroy CNN and the mainstream/lamestream media.
basic setup as I envisioned it:

Quote :
Fixed Cross wrote:
I can basically do a voice-over of texts written here over visuals I gather with some of our own music, cut with quotes and other video that I gather from youtube.

That would amount to the technical side, the editorial side would require some collusion.

https://beforethelight.forumotion.com/p ... mode=reply




-

It would be ideal to have a place where interesting articles and videos and links can be combined with forum writing serving as voice over material.
Ive been doing similar work for over ten years, its very fast once you get routine, which can come easily once there is a consistency in the quality. That means by mo means that it needs to be excellent or even good, it needs to be consistent. Then it acquires a momentum and becomes interesting to watch qua 'news'.

We cant aspire to greatness with a newsoutlet - just facts and good video references, and concise analyses.
Voice over texts in what Ive worked with are generally very short, just bits to talk from one fragment to the next.
this could work for us, a few powerful phrases to connect some relevant talking heads or event-registrations.



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PostSubject: Re: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeThu Feb 09, 2017 10:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I like this idea. Maybe Breitbart or Drudge would end up running one of the news features we do. Can you set up a YouTube account for this purpose? Up to you if you want to explicitly draw attention to BTL or not.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeThu Feb 09, 2017 10:33 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ha, alright.
Yes, Ill set up an account.
I would consider this a joint project of the 3 of us -
I dont mind to having it refer to BTL specifically at all, no, lets decide on a name for that channel.





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PostSubject: Re: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeThu Feb 09, 2017 10:43 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ive made a 'brand account'.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC02kf ... jEEoIrF1Mg

I put up a basic banner just to have something. We can change this in every aspect including the name.



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PostSubject: Re: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeThu Feb 09, 2017 10:58 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Not bad at all.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeThu Feb 09, 2017 11:05 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yeah Id say it has some allure written out like this.

I was just writing

--
Drudgereport
Breitbart
Infowars

these are successful newsbrandnames -
Maybe we shouldnt call it News Network

or just BTL News
or Philosophywars
or Pentad News

--


last time I went for something like this, was with Humanarchy.



This is no content, only presentation - Im wondering if there needs to be presentation at all.
What kind of format do we want?



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PostSubject: Re: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeThu Feb 09, 2017 11:10 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I link to all the items I made for HNews for good measure, stuff to compare our plans to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibEwCB7bGIw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB_wLm-m91c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm2NqZO_GUM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9jOtX5u11c



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PostSubject: Re: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeThu Feb 09, 2017 11:16 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
PhilosophyWars has a certain appeal. It might only tacitly be referred to as news, even though that is what it is doing.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeThu Feb 09, 2017 11:18 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
If we use me as a presenter then I am setting up a professional situation with lights and a proper digital background. That will be fun to orchestrate - for the first series I suggest we just compile narrative driven voice over based items, where I read out over video what the three of us write.

The basic method is formulaic, simple:

Exterior shots house, night, soft street-setnoise
Voiceover:
Last night John was shook out of sleep as he heard a bang.

Cut to John, talking head

John: I was dreaming about horses and suddenly one horse exploded but it didnt really because I woke upand it was a car, I saw it burn when I looked out of the window. It cant go on like this, the authories, they need to, they need to do something about, they need to do something.

Cut to
exterior government building, soft street noise fading into office noise as the shots change to interiors

Voice over
When confronted with the situation, deputy of affairs Benson defended his policies.

Cut to Benson, etc etc etc

ending usually with a concluding voiceover.

I dont know of this works for us, but we can try it this way first, and see if we want to make it less blocky.
I kind of like the blocky concept because you can maximally screw around with it.









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PostSubject: Re: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeThu Feb 09, 2017 11:19 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
PhilosophyWars has a certain appeal. It might only tacitly be referred to as news, even though that is what it is doing.

I agree.



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PostSubject: Re: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeThu Feb 09, 2017 11:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I need to get a USB mic and Ill be set to produce a PhilosophyWars episode from texts and links you and Parodites give me along with what I add.
Pick a topic and feed me some content for it, and Ill make of each one a quick item, and glue them together with some leader and bumper. Then you need to harshly criticize it.

Ideally Ill want to draw from the music each of us makes down the line.



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PostSubject: Re: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeThu Feb 09, 2017 12:07 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster



It'll get better.
I needed to get it out of my system that we're doing this. Or into it.



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PostSubject: Re: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeThu Feb 09, 2017 1:08 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Please understand that that is entirely meant as crummy as it is. It is a commentary on the fact that I am using my internal mic to relay zero content.
Like I said Im going to get a crisp mic and then tell some stories.

Still, I always like crummy tv. I have lived through the 80's.



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PostSubject: Re: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeFri Feb 10, 2017 2:44 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Low-quality TV is simply real, as in not mass produced and manipulated by marketing and green screens and polished artificial dialogue. The 80s was THE time for real human TV.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: BTL Newsroom BTL Newsroom Icon_minitimeFri Feb 10, 2017 4:10 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hahaha, damn yes, I feel the same.

Ok then I know what approach to take.

The idea of retro 80's tv addressing current reality amuses me.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:07 pm

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PostSubject: The new art of war The new art of war Icon_minitimeWed Feb 15, 2017 5:46 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Increased means of deception and dominion, increased will to be transformed, applied, motivated by the external.
War is art, and art requires a canvas.
To deceive the deceiver, every gamblers fetish and every politicians blood - and to the artist, the deception is entire, he does not exist save as his belief in his fiction. Artists are perverts, that is why we turn to philosophy.
Nothing against perversion when it produces art - but it must be subservient- at least it begs to be.
And we shall provide these perverts with a little sauce of discipline, highly spicy, so as to have them eat themselves up slower, and with more deference.
The People are most wholesome when their artists are out of bounds, "insane", like in the 20's and early 70's, I think it's related to economic breakdowns.
Capitalism has not yet been able to endure great health.



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PostSubject: Re: The new art of war The new art of war Icon_minitimeThu Feb 16, 2017 12:18 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, deception is a key element of the original "Art Of War".

It used to be a required reading at West Point. Seem to me most of the students slept through that course.

It also used to be a required reading at some Management schools.

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PostSubject: Re: The new art of war The new art of war Icon_minitimeThu Feb 16, 2017 5:35 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
As well as in religious doctrines, surprisingly. The ends justify the means and such. It's true in cases. But hard to decide if you're the one being lied to.



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PostSubject: Re: The new art of war The new art of war Icon_minitimeFri Feb 17, 2017 12:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
As well as in religious doctrines, surprisingly. The ends justify the means and such. It's true in cases. But hard to decide if you're the one being lied to.

Although I don't want to agree with you, I must. Over-powering the opposition. Whatever it takes.

Forget about the Taoist Three treasures of: Compassion, Frugality & Humility.








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PostSubject: Chronicling the effects of propaganda Chronicling the effects of propaganda Icon_minitimeSun Apr 02, 2017 3:15 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Overheard at a social gathering recently,


"Trump is such a racist and sexist!"

"Russia has multiple sex tapes of him."

"Four people on his team are proven to have worked with Russia."

"Hillary was the only one qualified to be president. She is SO qualified! And now she will never be president, because of Russia. It's so sad."

"I'm just waiting for Trump to have a heart attack."



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Chronicling the effects of propaganda Chronicling the effects of propaganda Icon_minitimeMon Apr 10, 2017 3:54 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Me: What do you think of Trump?
Stranger: His isolationism is bad
Me: He is more accurately characterized as a balance between extreme isolationism and extreme open borders ideology
Stranger: Immigration isn't bad, we need more people
Me: So you would accept anyone from anywhere, in any circumstance?
Stranger: Yes. Stopping immigration based on someone's nationality is bad
Me: What if those nations in question are so unstable and war-torn they don't have a functional government and cannot be trusted to verify who anyone is before sending them here? And furthermore, are known to be harboring people with radical Islamic ideology who hate our own nation?
Stranger: You can't judge 100% of people for 2% of them.
Me: You have no idea what the percentages are, but even that aside, 2% would translate to hundreds if not thousands of dangerous people who want to kill you
Stranger: People can get along, we need to come together to face the challenges of our societies
Me: You know, with the first waves of immigration into America, we didn't just accept anyone from anywhere in the world. Primarily immigrants were from European nations, and so already shared out own western values-set and culture more or less.
Me: We didn't accept 10 million uneducated people from a different religion and medieval societies, that would have been disastrous
Stranger: We need more diversity.
Me: So diversity is your primary value?
Stranger: Yes
(You have disconnected)



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Chronicling the effects of propaganda Chronicling the effects of propaganda Icon_minitimeMon Apr 10, 2017 12:02 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yeah, some people have such an open mind that their brains have fallen out.





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PostSubject: Online Im a Deleuzian Online Im a Deleuzian Icon_minitimeSun Jun 18, 2017 8:16 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I proliferate rhizomatically.
with a singular eye, yes, but to the growth of many trees.

I am seed





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PostSubject: Re: Online Im a Deleuzian Online Im a Deleuzian Icon_minitimeSun Jun 18, 2017 8:35 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
From the tiniest of seeds grow the greatest of trees.





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PostSubject: Sabian Symbols Sabian Symbols Icon_minitimeWed Jun 21, 2017 1:33 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Quote :
PHASE 47 (TAURUS 17°): A SYMBOLICAL BATTLE BETWEEN "SWORDS" AND "TORCHES."

KEYNOTE: Refusing to depend upon the past, the seeker turns warrior, fighting anew the eternal "Great War. "

When Gautama, having sought in vain for the answers to his questions among the teachers of tradition, sat under the Bodhi Tree, he had to fight his own battle in his own way, even though it is an eternal fight. The spiritual light within the greater Soul must struggle against the ego-will that only knows how to use the powers of this material and intellectual world. There is no possibility of escape; it is the energy that arises out of the present moment — the inescapable NOW — that the daring individual has to use in the struggle.

This second stage symbol suggests that salvation is attained through the emergent individual's readiness to face all issues as if there were only two opposed sides. So teaches the Bhagavad-Gita. This is the dharma of this stage of human evolution: a stage of POLARIZATION OF VALUES.




This is the degree of my 'Dark Moon' - astronomically, the dark Earth; the mirror locus of the Earth in the elliptic of the moon around the Sun. The tropical, orbit/axis, season bound zodiac (not the one of the stars) has its 47th degree behind this Dark Moon in my case.








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PostSubject: Flat Earthers Flat Earthers Icon_minitimeMon Jul 17, 2017 7:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I can't believe these people exist. I mean, it is almost impossible to conceive this level of mindlessness exists and is actually becoming more common.

I've heard that maybe the Flat Earth movement is some kind of CIA psyop. I find explanations like that easier to believe than that people are really this stupid. But actually, yeah, people are really this stupid.

I've ran into several of them over the years, and debunked every claim they made. Not a single one of them was rational or intellectually honest. Their tactics are predictable and pathetic. And yet, this sort of view continues to grow.

Not sure the point of this topic, but I just wanted to vent about these retards.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Flat Earthers Flat Earthers Icon_minitimeMon Jul 17, 2017 7:48 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
But really.
The first time someone I respect told me that he took this seriously I just held in my vomit and changed the subject.

Someone who believes this is both fundamentally incapable of logic and of respect. To disregard Copernicus and Galileo is so shameful that I cant even...even.


Just, fuck off to the dark ages already.



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PostSubject: Re: Flat Earthers Flat Earthers Icon_minitimeMon Jul 17, 2017 7:58 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, this depravity of mind and soul pisses me off beyond belief. You can't even talk to these fuckers, they aren't capable of forming or responding to ideas. And they're pretentious as shit about it, which is even funnier.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Flat Earthers Flat Earthers Icon_minitimeTue Jul 18, 2017 10:40 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I think I have mentioned before, the dumbing down of Americans seems to be working.



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Google corruption Empty
PostSubject: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 11:27 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Several days after Trump won the election, I was trying to find the electoral college totals. I wanted the exact numbers. I tried searching on Google, and guess what? Nothing. If you've ever asked a question into Google search bar, and the answer to the question is a number, Google will default display the answer right at the top, without even needing to link you to a webpage.

"what is the diameter of the earth?" -- and Google spits out "7,917.5 mi" at the top of the page.

"what were the electoral college totals?" --..... and nothing.

Even in the webpage results, it was nearly impossible to find this information. What the fuck, we just had the election only a few days ago at this point, the electoral numbers were splayed all over the media during and immediately after the election, yet now they were nowhere to be found. The links Google was giving me to various webpages from my search were mostly meaningless, many didn't even have anything to do with the electoral college at all or were links to webpages talking about how the electoral college should be abolished.

This is clear censorship.

Now look at what I found online:




So make a note to yourself that Google is part of the neoliberal, globalist censorship machine. Probably you already knew that, and I certainly suspected it, but it is nice to have the proof in hand.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 11:30 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I wish I had videotaped my searches at the time, as proof. Since now you can Google search for the electoral college results and it does give you some meaningful hits (to mainstream news outlets of course).



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 11:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I don't even bother asking for the truth from the media anymore. Yes, I have heard some strange things about Google lately.

It seems that about half of the articles in internet media are opinions any more. No truths.
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeThu Jan 26, 2017 12:04 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The trick would be to show Google how to make a lot more money by being accurate.


Somehow, our task includes making Truth more economically viable.



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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2017 12:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
The trick would be to show Google how to make a lot more money by being accurate.


Somehow, our task includes making Truth more economically viable.

Yeah, we need to be much clearer in defining truth as truth and opinion as opinion.

Recently I have seen a gross increase of opinions being presented as facts.
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeMon Jan 30, 2017 8:10 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
In an obvious slight against Trump and reasonable immigration policy, today Google has put up an image of Fred Korematsu, the man who tried to fight Japanese internment back in WWII.

I'm sure Google won't be posting anything about how the US secretly pardoned and took in Nazi and Japanese scientists who committed torture, war crimes, mass murder and psychopathic human experimentations including rape and biological weapon testing, vivisection on living people, not to mention psychological warfare testing as well. Operation Paperclip will never get a "Google doodle", neither will the fact that the US government pardoned and secretly took in scientists working at Unit 731 in Japan.

But hey, let's just focus on whatever makes Trump look bad, and ignore what actually fucking happened. Yeah internment was bad, but we have a legal process for parsing that our, which did occur; and it wasn't like we were raping and torturing and murdering Japanese in those internment camps. Also, what the fuck does Japanese internment during WWII have to do with Trump? He isn't trying to round anyone up an put them in camps. But I suppose when one lacks a mind it's easy to conflate internment camps with Aushwitz, or to conflate either of those with a basically rational and very simple immigration policy... you know, the idea that it actually makes sense to have a border?

Your body has a border, biological cells have a border, your house has a border, your yard has a border, your social group has a border, your thoughts have a border, but I suppose a nation-state doesn't have a need for one, right? Lol. Remember that is precisely what Google is communicating with their little PC doodle image today.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeMon Jan 30, 2017 8:17 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Google fucking sucks. I'm going to use a different search engine from now on. Probably find a good metasearch engine, dogpile looks decent.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeMon Jan 30, 2017 11:03 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
My default is Bing and it's not much better than Google.

I get much better results when I am using Pale Moon.
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeTue Jan 31, 2017 8:10 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_tWyvnH0xY

___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeWed Feb 01, 2017 4:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, it was apparent the week before the election. Picture-googling Clontin would result in a first 100 hits of very happy, stylized portraits, and a Trump pic search would yield only abusive memes these orks had been fabricating in their sewer-pipes they call home, or heart, or hearth, or just where they ooze their "life".



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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeWed Feb 01, 2017 11:01 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The saddest thing is that our news media was reporting opinion, not fact. And they are still doing it today.

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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeThu Feb 02, 2017 5:28 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
News media have never been an instrument of truth. Never ever happened.

I remember my mom working for a newspaper called De Waarheid, literally The Truth. The paper of the Communist party.
That is how all news paper staff thinks. "Truth" is just a word that sells really well.

Google corruption Waarheid

https://home.kpn.nl/pagklein/dagblad/im ... arheid.jpg

Google corruption Stalindood

https://2img.net/h/horl.yolasite.com/re ... ndood.jpeg

https://www.krantvanuwgeboortedag.nl/up ... 1985_3.jpg

Google corruption De_waarheid_mei_1945_tot_december_1985_3



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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeWed Mar 01, 2017 5:33 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Searching "Trump news" at Google and at Dogpile:

Google lists donaldjtrump.com as the 36th result.

Dogpile lists donaldjtrump.com as the 13th result.

Google lists trump.news as the 16th result.

Dogpile lists trump.news as the 1st result.


Also this is ignoring the "AMP" google results that actually steal content from others and use it as a google page. If you include these then google results drop donaldjtrump.com to 55th and trump.news to 35th.


I also did not count ads as search results. Dogpile has a lot of ads, probably because it has to compete with the likes of Google and their dark money stream.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeWed Mar 01, 2017 5:37 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Another thing about google, they steal content from other webpages and actually allow you to read it as a copy on google's own page, without ever directing you to the actual website. This is noticeable especially on mobile: click on a search result from googling and you get a mobile site with google.com still listed as the URL at the top, but what you're seeing is a copy of the actual other website; if you "request desktop version" from your mobile browser this forces google to redirect you to the actual other webpage, and you'll see that now you have the real URL.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning


Last edited by Thrasymachus on Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeWed Mar 01, 2017 5:39 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
So in effect google is trolling the internet and copying other webpages, then giving you that copy without ever taking you to the actual website, thereby removing traffic and hits to the other websites and appropriating these to google itself. Unbelievable. This is pure theft.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeWed Mar 01, 2017 11:45 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I'm glad I'm not using Google.

Bing was funny for a while but they cleaned up their act a little.

More often than not if I am doing a serious search I will use Pale Moon.

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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeThu Mar 02, 2017 3:07 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What shame must be in the hearts of the people running google and CNN all the rest of it, selling out to manipulate and scam in order to get Hillary elected. And it didn't even work, which is the funniest part.

Yeah google, manipulating your search results to prop up Clinton and downgrade trump, how very clever of you. You're a real Machiavellian fucking genius. Lol.

These globalist shits have nothing to base their power-grab on except a blind lust for more money and more power. They don't have core values, they don't have ideas of ideals; technically you could say they aren't even human, they are more like early transhumanists trying to forsake their humanity for the sake of some eventual AI-god hive mind in the hopes they may be given a position of some privilege in the future New Order.

Kek. What a load of garbage. These shitclowns basically defeat themselves. Philosophically speaking they are nothing but a remainder, an excremental excess of humanity.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeThu Mar 02, 2017 12:58 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Well, you expressed yourself pretty well there. I pretty much agree with you. Nice to see the bullshit is settling down a little bit now. Should be over soon. Their attention span isn't very long. Some other PC issue will come up and they will all switch gears.
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeFri Apr 21, 2017 5:35 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
The trick would be to show Google how to make a lot more money by being accurate.


Somehow, our task includes making Truth more economically viable.

I really wish I knew how to do this.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeSat Apr 22, 2017 1:21 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
The trick would be to show Google how to make a lot more money by being accurate.


Somehow, our task includes making Truth more economically viable.

I really wish I knew how to do this.

You have to use magic.
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeTue Aug 08, 2017 10:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
https://medium.com/@Cernovich/full-jame ... 39f3d2d05f


"Google = Goolag"

Haha.

More tolerant diversity from "progressive" neoliberals.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning


Last edited by Thrasymachus on Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeTue Aug 08, 2017 10:48 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
On the issue of women in tech or STEM generally: women simply make different choices and have different desires and interests. That isn't "sexist", unless women are imposing sexism on themselves.

Pointing out the obvious is now a thought-crime.

Welcome to the brave new world of Goolag.



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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeTue Aug 08, 2017 10:50 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
https://duckduckgo.com

Can't recall the last time I used Google to search anything.



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“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeTue Aug 08, 2017 10:54 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"Time to stop first world "gender gap" hysteria: Men and women make different vocational choices


Each year, 265 million in public funding goes toward The Canada Research Chairs Program, a program that funds top researchers at Canadian universities. Now, Science Minister Kirsty Duncan is threatening to defund its chairs for not meeting "diversity targets".

The decision came after Minister Duncan took offense at the unequal number of chairs held by women. "There were two times more men nominated (for research chair positions) than women" Duncan exclaimed during in an interview with the Associated Press.

Government funding will be withheld until universities nominate an equal number of women. But aren't universities progressive strongholds, bereft of bias and bastions of equality? Of all places, it seems unlikely that university faculties are actively holding women back.

As of December 2016, only 30 per cent of the funded chair positions were held by women. However, between 2000 and 2015, 31 per cent of applicants for the jobs were from women. Based on these numbers it would be impossible to argue that sexist hiring practices are the cause of the gender imbalance in research chairs. Fewer women hold research chair positions because fewer women apply; it's that simple.

So why is Duncan so upset? Minister Kirsty Duncan subscribes to a gender theory that has pervaded the intelligentsia, bureaucrats, and politicians. This theory asserts that there are no differences between women and men, and that existing differences in gender representation (uneven gender ratios in research chairs, company boards, Cabinet Ministers, etc.) are the result of a patriarchal societal system.

This "gender sameness theory" is not interested in equal opportunity for women; it is focused on equal outcomes. To its adherents, gaps between the sexes are clear indicators of sexism and must therefore be avoided at all costs.

Kirsty Duncan and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau both subscribe to this theory. They see equal representation as a requirement for an egalitarian society; even if it means assiduously ignoring differences between the sexes to achieve it. However, regardless of the popularization of gender sameness theory, the truth remains: men and women are different, and as a result, they make different vocational choices.

Using Canadian Research Chairs as an example, fewer women apply to research chair positions because fewer women choose to work in STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) fields. Out of all Canadians who work in STEM, only 22 per cent are women.

Furthermore, despite attempts to encourage women to work in STEM, these numbers are barely changing. Even as more women join the workforce, few choose to work in STEM fields. Between 1991 and 2011, women accounted for 75 per cent of the growth in the number of workers in university-level non-scientific occupations, but only 27 per cent of the growth in the number of workers in university-level scientific occupations. "
https://www.sott.net/article/356505-Tim ... al-choices



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Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption Icon_minitimeTue Aug 08, 2017 10:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Nothing has harmed women and the attempt to forge a truly female psyche and philosophy more than Marxist leftism. The Left hates women, that is obvious now.

Fuck Trudeau and pussy anti-truth pseudo-intellectual globalist elitists everywhere.




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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 08, 2017 10:58 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Goolag "equality" ideology means that I should want to become a nurse or a social worker or a teacher or a home-maker. Lol.

Funny how none of these "progressive" male elitists bother to interpret themselves in terms of these supposed egalitarian ideals.

"Boys don't want to play house with dolls! Ahhh nooo! Sexism!!"



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Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 08, 2017 11:27 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Well, who am I to say? But I find it strange when a boy wants to be a girl. I suppose it is difficult for some people to just be what they are.
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Aug 09, 2017 6:45 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Well, who am I to say? But I find it strange when a boy wants to be a girl. I suppose it is difficult for some people to just be what they are.

Yes.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Google corruption Google corruption - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Aug 09, 2017 7:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Goolag fires James Damore for politely saying things that are true:




Full document he wrote hoping to improve things at Goolag: https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... hamber.pdf






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PostSubject: To purify truth To purify truth Icon_minitimeSat Aug 12, 2017 9:21 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
To purify truth of its purity:

I just wrote someone that at the outset of this path I needed to make friends and enemies to purify vo of its purity. This has been the way to climb the mountain further, rather than just stand and say some formulae.

It is a way of saying I needed it to attach to all contradicting ways of the world to demonstrate itself, by, as it turned out, whipping up a huge storm of philosophical values that came to be at the crest of the wave of political and societal upheaval that followed in parallel. It was the anticipation and with that the initiation of the tapestry of de- and resublimation of the spirit, because it could not be desublimized without either perishing or being resublimed instantly.

It can not survive "as such". It is rather that which does not exist as such, that which requires a context. Spirit as such is only recognizable as a concept in visions of total destruction. It needs to be sublimized into a dialectic or daemonism so as to become tenable, literally holdable in time-space, in experience, in being.

We can not directly experience the interaction of self-valuings as they reduce to their "suchness" - the "suchness" of the world is rather deadly.

We are sublimated deadliness.


What Ive actually said is that spirit as such can not be endured by temporal phenomena, not that it can not endure itself.
Spirit is consequence itself, and its volatility is always powerful. There is never a moment when spirit is subdued so as to conform; in reality we can see this in the nuclear arms race, and North Korea. The repression of the spirit of its population successfully manifests in the projection of defiant force outward. Similar with nazi Germany, and actually with Germany in general.

All nations with power greater than their size would suggest seem to have great repression mechanisms; Japan, Israel -



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PostSubject: Re: To purify truth To purify truth Icon_minitimeSat Aug 12, 2017 11:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Well, getting feedback for a theory is always helpful whether it be negative or positive.

The truth, however, does not need to be purified. It only needs to be recognized and acknowledged.

I think that invoking spirit into the philosophy is an error.
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PostSubject: Re: To purify truth To purify truth Icon_minitimeSun Aug 13, 2017 2:00 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
By spirit I mean the exact present moment, without calculation, only the configuration of powers as it is right now. And now. And those trillion instances in between.

I wasn't talking about feedback. I don't need feedback for logic. What I meant was in what I wrote though. Sorry to be a bit strict with you, you took some liberty that wasn't warranted.




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PostSubject: Re: To purify truth To purify truth Icon_minitimeSun Aug 13, 2017 6:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Spirit then as the reduction to immediacy-of-being of the states of tension that exist within every willings to powers/every sv.

Like if you could take a snapshot of a being in terms of its entwining lattice networks of contradictions and non-contradictions, that snapshot in a single instant would be "spirit". Since it is time-compressed it can never manifest itself perfectly in time, it can only manifest imperfectly or approximately. But time-flows are always collecting around spirit and trying to make sense of it, or resist it, or appease it, or simply to bask in nearness to the Sun.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: To purify truth To purify truth Icon_minitimeSun Aug 13, 2017 11:05 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, well said.

One can access spirit, but by accessing it one undoes it.

One can pretty much see it as light in this sense - once it hits an object of time space, it no longer exits - but it will have revealed something.

If we are extremely finely tuned with our most refined senses we can be guided by spirit and "sniff out" the possibilities that lurk in the moment. This is how we intuit things before they happen, anticipate, have premonitions -
we simply are more aware of the configuration of the present than of the cruder step logics that we use to build a notion of past and future.

Most talent involves anticipating configurations of potential without being able to structurally discern them.

I have taken the liberty of defining the word Spirit as I see it fit, as it makes sense to me, as I can use it - and as, as I see it, it corresponds most with the ways the ancient, more superstitious but stil perceptive cultures have experienced and described it.

The moment is suffused with subatomic instabilities. This plays into the soft magnetisms that belong to our body, the brain, seemingly especially the heart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetocardiography

Magnetism is the force that creates the present, gravity the force that creates time.



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PostSubject: Re: To purify truth To purify truth Icon_minitimeSun Aug 13, 2017 11:09 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
By spirit I mean the exact present moment, without calculation, only the configuration of powers as it is right now. And now. And those trillion instances in between.

I wasn't talking about feedback. I don't need feedback for logic. What I meant was in what I wrote though. Sorry to be a bit strict with you, you took some liberty that wasn't warranted.


Okay. The spirit of the moment. That which is constantly changing for most people.

Well, any time you present a thought to those who have a mind of their own, you are going to get feedback.

So if I misunderstood what you said is it because of my lack of comprehension or is it that you did not express yourself well? You nor I can determine what is the truth.


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PostSubject: Re: To purify truth To purify truth Icon_minitimeMon Aug 14, 2017 3:48 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Don't take it personal, its not about who is right or wrong.

the fact is that the word spirit never has had a definitive meaning. It comes from the latin word "spiritus" which means breath. And yet the German "Geist" is also translated into "Spirit" and "Geist" definitively does not mean "breath".

Both breath and Geist however denote the absolute present.

In Hindu tradition, the present, the breath, the soul, the consciousness and the joy, they are all the same, they are all "Atman" - something close to what I mean here with "spirit".

-- note that reality is far, far too great and magnificent and complex to be denoted by words -
we must always realize words are just playful, childlike attempts to do justice to experience.

The more playful we stay, the more serious we are about this play, the better our chances of powerfully conveying truth.



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PostSubject: Re: To purify truth To purify truth Icon_minitimeMon Aug 14, 2017 4:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"To walk upon the earth is beyond any power to name." --Milosz



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: To purify truth To purify truth Icon_minitimeMon Aug 14, 2017 11:32 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Chuang Tzu said that once we understand the concept we can forget the words.

I seek to understand the concepts. Words that have many connotations are generally useless to me.


"To walk upon the earth is beyond any power to name." True this. Similar to trying to define the "I" in the phrase "I am."


Don't worry Fixed Cross. It is impossible for me to take our conversations personally as we do not know each other personally. But I will question you if I do not understand something you say or even why you said it. I seek to understand, not just consume what others say.

Anyhow, back to the discussion, whatever that was.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:15 pm

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PostSubject: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeMon Aug 14, 2017 3:32 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
A thread for all sorts of content pertaining to the markets.
Be advised; to begin with there will extremely random content.





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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeMon Aug 14, 2017 5:27 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
A way of playing the stock is to simply set the spread and find buyers and sellers at once.
This is the trick behind nano-banking, or bot-banking (my term), but has always been the most basic game in the stock market.
It is deceptively simple, which is why it is infinitely complex, which is why a company spends a hundred million just to put a cable through a mountain to have a faster connection.

The game is to set the orders so that they will be processed before the other orders, but there is a web of relevant units across the country that all require and disseminate information and assumptions/presumptions about each other to make their moves.
Naturally it is thus wise to keep ones speeds to oneself.
It is why knowledge of methods on the stock market comes out very slowly, as slow as military secrets, only when they stop working for the private interests that held them first and they are generalized.





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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeMon Aug 14, 2017 5:54 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
pertaining to the above:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-q46f6uALE

on trading in general:





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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 12:08 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I have never liked the stock markets. All they do is help the wealthy to become more wealthy and through inflation cause to poor to become poorer.
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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 4:39 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It is inevitable for businesses to exist.
Basically businesses sell stocks to be able to be larger than they can be on their own money, which for many types of post industrial businesses is necessary.



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 5:19 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
It is inevitable for businesses to exist.
Basically businesses sell stocks to be able to be larger than they can be on their own money, which for many types of post industrial businesses is necessary.

True. I understand the need for capital for starting a new business, etc. But I still think that, all things considered, it is still evil.
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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 6:05 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I guess Ill have to live with that.



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 7:10 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Money is not evil. How would humans trade values without it?



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I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 7:11 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Imagine your body without blood. That's a society without money.



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I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 7:35 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Playing the stocks can be done in any different ways -
Sisyphus, mostly the people that lose out because of the stock market are weak payers on that market. That accounts for by far the greatest percentage of gains. And for the rest, the market makers make the environment where you can buy a fridge or a car.
Without that market there would only be very small family sized companies.

Shares keep a company pressured to perform in a large national context.
Im learning to think this through just now. Its beautiful.



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 7:43 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Haha
now I also understand why Amsterdam came up with the idea -
it was the VOC - the United East-Indies Company, that was too big to be carried by private interests.
It had to be supported by cutting it up and selling the shares across the entire affluence of the nation.

So yeah, thats pretty evil. But not in the way you suggest - in a far worse way. And it is what is still wrong with the market.
that it sustains companies that parasite on nations with weak governments.

But you can simply invest in lofty industries. Its not true that buying the stocks of a startup company is necessarily going to cause anyone any losses.

Whats causing losses of such magnitude that it affects ordinary people is these same people getting in over their head in mortgages, and overspending on luxury objects. Thats what causes the bubbles and bursts, which are always absorbed by the ones that aren't paying attention. Playing he market can simply be paying attention to the careless overspending ordinary people do and make sure to not suffer of them but instead gain a little, or a lot.

The existence of any of the Indexed companies in the US isnt possible without the existence of the markets. Companies do not go public just for the hell of it, they do it when they need to be carried by the great flux of capital. This means you can invest in it, with reduced fees now even a five dollar investment can grow into a profit.

The giant losses came on the housing market, because some asshole had decided to pile together debts and make them into products that were presented as fail poof valuables. Since they were packaged and sold as literally as good as gold, no one afterwards would ever to check up on the situations behind these debts, so many of them turned into losses without anyone noticing, and so the economy, which by then had largely become sustained by mortgage banking based hedgefunds, became very literally hollowed out.

It was all a result of people not paying their mortgages, but that was largely the result of these mortgages being given out without any financial background checks, which was in turn the result of the lucrative pricing of these loans as they were sold in packages like slabs of precious metals or diamonds.

That looks very much like a setup, but it has quite literally nothing to do with playing the market, now that I think about it. It only started to have to do with the market when some guy decided to short these loans, which created a turbulence in the value and allowed it to become revealed as less than nothing. So in that case, as in most cases perhaps, the market was the means to correct the value of the security. In this case, it corrected the value of dead loans from golden to rotten.



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 8:24 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Playing the market and fixing the market are two different things.
Fixing is considered an illegal enterprise to gain by manipulating people into overspending through using inside information.
The housing bond bubble was such a fix.

Market fixing requires that one possess gigantic sums, such vast wealth as to stand into significant comparison to the value of an entire market. You can't do it without an affiliation of billionaires these days. And billionaires don't tend to sit out prison sentences -
what is really unfair on the ordinary population is not the stock market but the justice system. It can not to me be ethically justified that money prescribes the type of chances you get to be convicted of otherwise equal crimes. I can accept it as just the way it is, bit it is the real problem standing in the way of a balanced society.

To fix the market, which is the only way to get it so bloated as to result in losses significant enough to ripple out and affect the average wage worker, requires great wealth to begin with. To play the market requires technically one dollar and one cent. You'd pay one dollar commission for a one cent investment. Pretty hard to turn into a profit - but ten dollars with a one dollar commission could most definitely turn to twenty over the course of three years without anyone losing on that. The rise in price results from people who buy and sell shares at increasingly high prices, as they estimate the worth of a company to grow. This in turn allows the company to invest in itself.



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 11:32 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Money is not evil. How would humans trade values without it?

I'm not against money and its use. I am against the sock market for the reason noted above.

It allows money manipulators to cause the wealthy to become wealthier and the poor to become poorer.

The stock market, in the most part, is a scam. And small time investors almost always loose.
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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 11:33 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Imagine your body without blood. That's a society without money.

Not valid. Although this is true in larger societies it is not true within smaller societies where the barter system is used.

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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 12:40 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
Money is not evil. How would humans trade values without it?

I'm not against money and its use. I am against the sock market for the reason noted above.

It allows money manipulators to cause the wealthy to become wealthier and the poor to become poorer.

The stock market, in the most part, is a scam. And small time investors almost always loose.

That is a superstition.
Ive explained above how it really works, and what the real trickery is.

Without the stock market the USA would be impossible. Independent capitalistic ventures would be impossible.



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 9:57 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
Imagine your body without blood. That's a society without money.

Not valid. Although this is true in larger societies it is not true within smaller societies where the barter system is used.


Explain to me how a company barters for the needed resources and skilled labor to build something like a car, or a computer, or a power plant, or an antibiotic.



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 10:28 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
Money is not evil. How would humans trade values without it?

I'm not against money and its use. I am against the sock market for the reason noted above.

It allows money manipulators to cause the wealthy to become wealthier and the poor to become poorer.

The stock market, in the most part, is a scam. And small time investors almost always loose.

That is a superstition.
Ive explained above how it really works, and what the real trickery is.

Without the stock market the USA would be impossible. Independent capitalistic ventures would be impossible.

Well, I don't accept your explanation. Sorry.

No, what I said is not superstition - it is fact.

Yes, what you are suggesting is what the wealthy tell you to believe. I don't believe them. I don't believe my government either.
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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 10:36 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
Imagine your body without blood. That's a society without money.

Not valid. Although this is true in larger societies it is not true within smaller societies where the barter system is used.


Explain to me how a company barters for the needed resources and skilled labor to build something like a car, or a computer, or a power plant, or an antibiotic.

The creation of stock markets originated in 1531. It's not like it is an essential part of the human experience.

It was then that the NWO really began and also the beginning of Globalization. Sure, great advances have occurred because of it. But at what cost to humanity?

So, to answer your question: The same way it was done prior to 1531.

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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeTue Aug 15, 2017 10:49 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
And how is that?



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeWed Aug 16, 2017 5:52 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus, would you mind abandoning your emotive trolling and addressing my explanation?

I know you as a guy quite capable of bring rational. Youre lowering this place with your thoughtless and graceless accusation that I believe, where I just explained the necessity of it logically. I know you know what logic is. .

Address the logic like a grown man.



If you want to go back to a feudal pre industrial society, sure, the Stockmarket stands in the way. And the is very okay if you want that. But don't imagine that has anything to do with me and or any beliefs you imagine I have.


If you are against the Stockmarket, you must immediately throw out your car, computer, fridge and any technological object you may own. I really don't know how you could live with yourself otherwise.



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeWed Aug 16, 2017 6:24 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sorry, but thats really the worst insult for me. When I take the time to rationally, logically, step by step explain something, and then the person I took the time and trouble for to explain it to just fails to read it and instead of reading it blurts out the gravest possible accusation for a philosopher, that I have taken anyone at his word, that I believe rather than reason.

It is you who failed to read, Sisyphus. That is bad enough. To suggest the it was I who failed here just to cover your own failure is very bad manners indeed.

I can not very wel deal with people who can not deal with logic. Not on a philosophy board. There are too many of them already, S, don't join them. This is very serious.

We need people willing to use their mind. We do not need more thoughtless judgmental people.



Now, lets address the issue like grownups.
Ive already explained the logic, the reason that the stock exchange exists. Let us address that reality now.



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeWed Aug 16, 2017 6:49 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
grrarrh, Im not gonna let this topic be pissed on like that.




I will repeat some, and explain some more.


1.

The reason for selling shares in ones company is to get capital.
If one is setting up a high tech industry, capital is required.
One can not enter the high tech market as a private firm, unless one starts out as a multi millionaire.

So what makes it necessary for there to be a market to trade stocks?
This is a bit of a tricky statistical mathematical concept that actually translates very well into basic psychology.

Why would someone buy a piece of hypothetical value, if he can not sell it again at the price he bought it at?
No one will do that.

Therefore there is a stock market - to guarantee that the price of the stock relates to the value of the company.



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeWed Aug 16, 2017 7:02 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
2.

A stock comes to relate to the value of the company by it being traded.

At first, at the IPO as a company goes public it chooses to who it will give out its shares.
The price tends to be set so that it appears like a very favourable buy, which is to say, like something that can be sold for more over time.

Only as soon as these first holders start selling, does the value of the stock begin to take shape.

Often this results first in a falling down of the price, such as with Facebook or snapchat.

this comes about as follows: say the IPO buy-in price was set at 14 dollars.
The first day the stock is offered on the market, it will be offered for a price above that.
So the parket may open at 21, because that is the price the original owners decide to capitalize on their being allowed first into those stocks.

If the company isn't showing revenue, the real value is hard to estimate, so the stock will tend to be sold for slightly less profit as the day proceeds - and when the price is seen to decrease, that is taken as a signal to pay even less, and the price lowers fast, it plummets, until it comes at a point where it would seem the stock couldn't possible be worth less in the long run, at which point it stabilizes, and the company begins to adapt to the concerns that became apparent as the stock went public - what made it drop?What made it look less than solid?

If it adapts well, the stock will start to rise again. As the companies value increases demonstrably, the stock will be bought at a higher price, and an uptrend will be set in.

This is one way in which the market disciplines a company, and forces it to become productive, profitable, real.



Please respond to specific points. Don't paraphrase me, don't avoid anything, respond to specific and exactly quoted statements.
This is a realm of very strict logic.



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeWed Aug 16, 2017 7:05 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Haha
now I also understand why Amsterdam came up with the idea -
it was the VOC - the United East-Indies Company, that was too big to be carried by private interests.
It had to be supported by cutting it up and selling the shares across the entire affluence of the nation.

DAMN Im so fucking on point.

Because Sisyphus claimed I am wrong, I checked it (I knew my logic was sound, so I didnt check it before)

but check it out.

google wrote:
The Amsterdam Stock Exchange was established in 1602 by the Dutch East India Company (Verenigde Oostindische Compagnie, or "VOC") for dealings in its printed stocks and bonds. It was subsequently renamed the Amsterdam Bourse and was the first to formally begin trading in securities.



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games Icon_minitimeWed Aug 16, 2017 9:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"A stock comes to relate to the value of its company by being traded."

And I think this hits it perfectly. Value is always negotiation, a statistical curve and seeks the mid point between multiple end points. How do you know your value on the marketplace of sexual selection and mate attraction? Go seek mates and see. Only a woman, or rather many women over time, can give you a rough idea of your value on that market, if you are a man.

A company sets its stock for IPO at $14, but that is just a guess. And a strategy. It doesn't relate yet to real value, because real value can be determined only in the dynamic market of interested potential investors. As you say this is also psychology. We know the value of an idea, for example, or an emotion, only after we put it out on the marketplace of other ideas and emotions, see it traded around even if this occurs only in our own minds.

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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Aug 16, 2017 10:53 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yeah, exactly.
This exposure to reality (which is always valuing) makes the stock into a selfvaluing, a consistency, a standard that has its own criteria for responsiveness.

The comparison to sexual selection is very rich, we can do a lot with that. Too much for now.



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Aug 16, 2017 12:24 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
And how is that?

One on one interactions.

I petition you for funding of my idea. You think it is a good idea. You finance my efforts. People talk. A good idea spreads.
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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Aug 16, 2017 3:08 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
And how is that?

One on one interactions.

I petition you for funding of my idea. You think it is a good idea. You finance my efforts. People talk. A good idea spreads.

Will you then prohibit T from selling his part on your company?
Because if you would do that, he would not be likely to finance you. The part of your company must hold some sort of economic value, not just the faithful expectation of you doing a good job.

What you propose is the same as putting a company on an exchange, except that you would force people to hold on to their share in your company, which would prevent them from buying it in the first place. If they can't sell, the part has no value to them. Theyd only be giving you money, unless you share profit with them, which would make it very hard to make enough profits so as to be able to re-invest them. Told have to convince your partners to invest their profits as well - and in equal measure. That will never work, you'd be bickering for years and the company would go under.

Shares can only be given out once the company is throughly vetted for its financial potential.
That is only reasonable - you would also have to do that if you spread the word on your good idea.
Otherwise you'd be conning the investors.

The IPO (initial Pubic Offering), initial releasing of shares, is exactly what you propose. It is done one on one, people are approached in person, as a privilege.
These first owners can then freely sell their shares, which is why that share has value in the first place.

Again - big companies can not be financed simply by promising a significant return on profits. Profits are always going to be required to maintain the business.
Instead, the company is simply sold in pieces, people hold ownership of the company that they can sell, and the value of this partial ownership (share) changes in accordance with the way the company is doing.

Sometimes a company wil pay out dividends on the shares, more so if the value of the company is expected to remain stable ("value company"; insurances, banks, business in natural resource) and less so if the company is expected to have sudden bursts or drops in value ("growth company"; in todays work the prime examples are the large social media corporations).



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Aug 16, 2017 4:39 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
(from the public Capitalism thread)

Its not for the love of money, its the love of prospect.
Were pioneers, its in our blood, we must go beyond where anyone has gone.

Money is a means,
the language people speak.
He who speaks well, gains.
He who speaks carelessly or clumsily loses.

It doesn't matter how rich one is born, if one is bad at money, one will only fall al the deeper. It is a curse to be born a miser with a lot of money. It will inevitably lead to murder or a long meaningless guardian-type life with a lot of enemies masquerading as friends.

To have money, one has to want to speak it.

A happy businessman is, Ive seen in my own dealings, happy enough to be losing some profit on someone who knows how to value what he has and is sharp enough to put a price on it.

Thats the game; first valuing, then pricing.

The discrepancy between the valuing and the pricing is the inefficiency of the market, the subjectivity of the companies IPO usually produces an initial inefficiency which traders then produce to reduce. As the stock becomes integrated into daily trading patterns the volatility of the spread, the difference between the highest ask and the lowest bid, is going to be reduced and the price of the thing will stabilize in some trend. But of course trends are constantly broken as one never stands in the same river twice definitely applies to the market, this is what is so beautiful about it. It almost-pure flux. One might say that it requires a form of art to discern order in it, because there is never a true order. Because everyone who is betting he market is influencing it, it simply can not be precisely modeled. It is beautiful as a river down a path of waterfalls is beautiful. It is beauty because it is pure value. It is what people make of the world, the direct result of both what they need and what they want.



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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I have no more arguments. I can't ever efficiently express my dislike for the stock market beyond what I have already said.

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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 17, 2017 5:15 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Okay.




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PostSubject: Re: Money Games Money Games - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 07, 2017 9:27 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I would sort of think Apple stock might be going down with this expensive new iPhone..... they look a but maxed out. But I know far too little of whats going on inside

What do you make of this.
https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=AAPL

Check out the data under the graph, thats all very useful information.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Philosophers

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PostSubject: Nothing good about stupidity Nothing good about stupidity Icon_minitimeTue Sep 26, 2017 1:44 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I declare war on stupidity. First step is to isolate myself from it. There is nothing glamorous or romantic or interesting about associating with stupidity or even relating myself to it. We should never even form relations of comparison between ourselves and stupidity. To even assume a basic relation, even to demonstrate the difference between it and us, would lower us infinitely.



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PostSubject: Re: Nothing good about stupidity Nothing good about stupidity Icon_minitimeTue Sep 26, 2017 1:49 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
One good thing about capitalism is how it makes use of stupid people. Notice in the middle class, there is a direct relationship between stupidity and earnings. This only really exists in the middle class, as far as I can tell. People who are more stupid have better jobs, generally speaking, if you look at the middle class. In the upper class I assume that stupid people get out-competed and devoured by more intelligent people, at least in the long term, and to be stupid at the level of being rich would raise the stakes so high that stupidity would end up ruining such a person much more completely; whereas in the lower class everyone is just equally fucked so it doesn't even matter whether a person is smart or stupid.

Look at any middle class, average sort of job or company in America and you will see idiots in charge. Stupid people move up the ranks, and I think capitalism does this on purpose, to give these stupid people more of a concentrated purpose and to strip degrees of freedom away from them. As they move up the ranks in their job, their options and choices are severely limited, they are forced into being a mere cog. They also make more money as they move up, which seems to be an unintended negative consequence of this model. But maybe not, since these companies are competing for the people who are stupid enough to occupy these positions but not so stupid as to be unable to perform the most basic rote cog-tasks that such positions require... you need to be stupid enough to not care that you are a soulless machine, but not so stupid that you cannot perform the tasks of a soulless machine. Thus companies compete for a very specific labor-niche... but although this niche is very specific, there is a huge pool of people in society who fall into that niche (of optimum stupidity, from a capitalistic middle-class perspective), so there is never a shortage of this kind of labor.

Damn capitalism, you are efficient.



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Put a clever word in them! —
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I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing good about stupidity Nothing good about stupidity Icon_minitimeTue Sep 26, 2017 2:11 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Nothing is more certain than the fact of the repulsiveness of stupidity.



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PostSubject: Re: Nothing good about stupidity Nothing good about stupidity Icon_minitimeTue Sep 26, 2017 2:21 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Remember too that a large part of capitalism/consumerism exists to suppress and satiate the will to power of the mob. In this sense it also makes sense that middle management and administrative positions would make more money than seems appropriate considering the vapid stupidity of the people who tend to occupy such positions... they trade degrees of freedom for extra pay, which is a very wise trade for a stupid person to make considering that a stupid person will use degrees of freedom poorly anyway. Instead, now with more access to money, they are better able to satiate and suppress their will to power in mindless consumerism.




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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing good about stupidity Nothing good about stupidity Icon_minitimeTue Sep 26, 2017 2:27 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I am also interested in the relationship between aesthetics and intelligence. A lack of intelligence is ugly, is not attractive. Beauty seems to be the recognition of value, the having of a value-standard already so that one can recognize that standard displayed in something or in another person. Reason, proportionality, truth, symmetry, clarity, these are examples of values aesthetically selected wherein this capacity for and love in selecting these makes up a part of the substructure of what we call intelligence. I think intelligence is also a form of aesthetics in a way, because to recognize a truth requires that we also see the value and beauty in this idea which is true. We might simply identify what is true against what is false and leave it there, but that doesn't really capture what is going on in the intelligent or genius mind.

Intelligence is a strain of genius; genius is the complete fusion of aesthetics and truth, so that truth is seen as an aesthetic and aesthetics are seen as true. Intelligence is therefore a lesser version of this capability, so that certain truths are able to be experienced as aesthetically pleasing and certain aesthetics are able to be experienced as true.

Parodites once mentioned that standards for human beauty are closely linked to royalty and to cultivating standards of breeding that are also politically and intellectually linked. This made no sense to me at the time (years ago) but it makes sense to me now. Any counter-example we can find in society where a beautiful female is not intelligent or noble would merely indicate that one particular strain of this greater breeding-cultivating project has strayed from the overall fabric; many threads stray away like thi