The Philosophers

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:42 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:No. Maybe hegemony is just stretching its legs.


Right.

Bending the knees, reaching as low as he can.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:50 pm

We here are the anti-Plato:

The rebirth of philosophy, the only step N couldn't make and for which he awaited and instructed his friends of a hundred years after him, was to recreate the Greek forum and to restore the living Presocratic dialogue.

Out with the dialogue of the upper hand, right and wrong, zero sum; in with the Ill be damned you're right now lets see what I can build on top of that engine made out of philosophy;
Socrates reduced, Plato consolidated the reduced world. With the archaeological tool of the internet we philosophers unpack the ancient world - but the key to unlock the mechanism of Platonization is, even as it fits the lock, not easy to turn.

it requires not just human, but also astronomical forces.

There is a moment when the world says click.
Several moments, click clack clock. A complicated lock.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:57 pm

Cause you'll be damned assured the old Plate himself used the ancient mechanisms to establish his hegemony.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:59 pm

baddabing, baddabang
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3257
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:01 pm

And in this he was the greatest.
He was the greatest wizard.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:12 pm

Evokes itself;

So at the crucial moment where the knowledge needed to propagate itself as Truth, the time before and into the conquest Alexander, it must have been the Pythagorean aspect that had the upper hand. Of all philosophers before Socrates, Pythagoras was the only one that held any claims to truth as an institution. His was the true nature of the "Academy", namely, a lodge.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:29 pm

There's a definition of truth in the brush; truth is knowledge that has acquired self-valuing.
So in case of human knowledge a self valuing would consist of humans and often the involvement of written language.
And a general way in which the truth is conveyed, a statement.

I wonder then if a type of statement can pertain to "truth";
is there such a thing as an untruthful type of statement?

Yes, presumably.
A lie can be said to be a type of statement.
but that is a type of untruthful statements.

A lie as a member of a type is truthful if it is told deliberately.

What is an untruthful type? It cant exist.

A type is a truth. A type is always truth.
Archetype is a ground-truth.
If its effective it is a grounding truth.
Arching type.

Just trying this Platonic damn key...
We need weird yet transparent magic tricks to convince the people that the truth is human.

We need camels and sheep, camels like lions among the sheep.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:39 pm

But is truth always a type?

"A truth told so as to be understood will always be believed",
But even if it isn't understood, truth must be a type to be believed.

I do not mean "a type of truth". Shit this Platonic shit is so ancient and wack. Theres just no rubrics cube click clack to it, its purely pegs and holes and a whole bunch of pegs for which there is no hole and mostly vice versa. Thats Platoniism. It creates holes for which there are no pegs and is itself a peg for which there is no hole, except itself, which is us.

But the wackness of it is due to its having outrun its purpose. Which ironically was to preserve what came before it.

If it hadn't been for Aristotle and his incredible wish to categorize we would have a shred of what we have now in knowledges of almost everyone who came before him, and almost nothing of the Presocratics. If Socrates hadnt made such a upheaval, all of it might have been forgotten, buried with Athenian political hegemony.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:46 pm

As long as an ethos explicitly elaborates the things it renounces, it preserves those things for posterity to weigh their preference at a moments desire.

I exaggerated the scope of the Academy's role in preserving knowledge referring to the rest of sources as a shred, but still, perhaps if it hadn't been for those fanatics of the supremacy of truth, none of the whole preceding enterprise would have acquired such prominence in any culture whatsoever, Neither Arabic nor European. Universal monotheism would still be an alien notion. Like literally something only aliens hold.

Which brings me to any next point. I read something recently about the appearance of Socrates that brought immediately to mind Edgar, from Men in Black, after he had become a suit.
Apparently this is now a type.
A truthful type?
See there ya go into Plato.

Eggarsuitness. No Dasein allowed, only a giant mall of sometimes-items.

Anyway. As long as an ethos explicitly elaborates the things it renounces, it preserves those things for posterity to weigh their preference at any moments desire. If it wasn't for the gravity which holds the whole enterprise together at a level of being able to understand money, which is where I have to defer to Parodites, before reducing it immediately to "abstract valuing". Here is one thing where only something as voluminous as his work could ever even pretend to do justice.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:18 pm

Freuds work needed to be quadratized.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:25 pm

Its time to make a careful note of what VO does not address.

Basically everything that isn't ontology.

Everything that has general yet non-universal content.

Ontology only has universal content.
It is a monadic knowledge system.

Archetypical knowledge systems are psychology, religion, philosophy as a whole.

Mathematics is I would say a dyadic knowledge system, having always two meanings; the one thing and thing it is equal to by mathematical terms. It is never equal to it in directly apparent terms. The system is designed to show dyadic relationships underneath myriad differences.

Arguably it is only because mathematics had been invented as a a formal system that people were able to think in true over false rather than just right over wrong.
Without math its kind of hard to prove that there is such a thing as objective right. Its hard to establish objective teleology if you don't begin with given outcomes.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:32 pm

No, because primes, Pi, etc.

But these are exactly perhaps rather extra-mathematical, chaoses which have designated roles in the structural order of equations. Primes an outer limit, Pi an inner contradiction, the golden ratio is an equation which tends to occur in nature.

The golden ratio applies to physics, pi to the physics and the mind, and primes to real metaphysics.
Which is a science which has not yet been discovered.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:50 pm

Though Capable has done some work there which he then destroyed, though left enough for me to see the danger, an experience which makes me think of Tesla.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:56 pm

Truth that leads back to itself satisfies the will to power. Socrates doesn't lead back to himself. That is where he did the deed, like Jules in Los Angeles.
Philosophy and Truth were separate matters, and this was what drove philosophy. Truth was known only as God, leading eventually back to men if they tried and wished hard enough after hey had done something truthful as a reward. Even the feeling of being truthful was the reward for getting some equation right. Truth as a statement rather than as an observation.
This distinguishes Pythagoras, who "religiously observed truth" which was not much more than this religious observing itself, from Aristotle, who categorizes truth so he could stop observing it, force others to observe it. Where Pythagoras had sought to exclude, Aristotle sought to include.

All until Nietzsche sought to include.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:10 pm

"Supposing that Truth is a woman--what then? Is there not ground for suspecting that all philosophers, in so far as they have been dogmatists, have failed to understand women--that the terrible seriousness and clumsy importunity with which they have usually paid their addresses to Truth, have been unskilled and unseemly methods for winning a woman? Certainly she has never allowed herself to be won; and at present every kind of dogma stands with sad and discouraged men -- if, indeed, it stands at all!"



Catch ye my drift?
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:21 pm

Truth is, I presume, not just any woman.

Who is this woman named Truth?
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:23 pm

Where can I meet her?

"Whats the occasion?
Tommyguns blazin"
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:26 pm

Truth would reasonably only reveal itself to truth, and only when we're very lucky to a very wholesome lie.

-I am the truth and the this and the that I am He I will fuck you up.
-Yeah well thats just like, your opinion man. New shit's come to light.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:40 pm

Can a man be understood?

Cinema.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:41 pm

Still have only seen Once Upon A Time In Hollywood once.

Is this Tarantino's first film without Weinstein?
Last edited by Fixed Cross on Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:48 pm

I think there was more distance between people and points in time back then.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3257
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:52 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:I think there was more distance between people and points in time back then.

Yes, even between people and points in general.
Even to points in their lives.

Maybe ... something is about me?

Socrates made that a notion - for a life to be supposed to have some kind of idea behind it.

Crazy.

Acid solves that.

Philosophers before Soc were maybe perceiving like we are on acid. It would explain a lot. Soc was rehab.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9115
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:57 pm

Socrates was just the crystallization of a point of view afforded by the first ever city. As soon as it was city, you see, there was Socrates. It would not have waited a second. Not a minute.

Pythagoras was part of an older stuff.

That's what Plato is. An exclamation of the newness. I think I meant to write at the newness. No of. And all the unfortunate events that followed? At. There at.

WHEREFORE THIS NEWNESS?

WHEREFORE?

WHEREFORE...?

WHEREFORE

wherefore...


But Plate was too brave to freak out like that. and so he made a thing.


Like in hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy when they build the answer machine.

if anything, one might even guess Plate was pissed at Socrts.


So, you know, in the end you are right. that's extremely fucking prescient about us really knowing of the others because of him, because of Plate. but fuck Plate. And fuck those weak assholes that needed him as an excuse.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3257
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:00 pm

I might have some things to say about Alexander, but you know what? Let's just be honest: Alexander stands on top of philosophy.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3257
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:02 pm

The only thing that made socrts and his henchman noble enough to be transmitted through the centuries was the nobility of the men who poisoned him, and of the stone catacombs where it happened.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3257
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Non-Philosophical Chat



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aegean