The Philosophers

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:23 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:It was ballsy, it was a ballsy move.

I think Plato was far more of a loner than you give him credit for. I think for him Socratrable was just a challenge.

Well as usual principle commands I defer to your superior valuing of him as implying a more intimate understanding (one which I may reject but which nonetheless pertains to Plato) and wont argue. Someone who doesn't value x can never convince the one who values x to drop that valuing. As the valuing is the being.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:27 am

I know that that is also true.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:33 am

But I won't stand for what he did. I cant stand for what he did and at the same time do what I do; I am runic - I don't metaphorize myself. I don't imagine there is an outside fundamentally different from an inside unless there is confusion. Everybody knew doubt, Odysseus surely had doubts. But that isn't what carries the story, that isn't the content itself. How vain to introduce doubt as a virtue in the middle of a war. Isn't Homer a much more vital expression of uncertainty, doubt, relativity, human limits and questions? I never learned anything from Plato.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:38 am

Your problem is that you are actually a Greek. I never supposed I could actually bear that pain, or that honor. They had their religion, and they are my religion.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:42 am

And yet every single phrase in Homer teaches a thing about truth. None of it is in there merely to push along some narrative. It is of course a text that has been honed over centuries before Homeros made the definitive compilation. "The old mythical language"... should study the timeline here.
Homeros is impossible to read for me, it is completely compressed and has its own past tense, the Homeric aorist, which makes forms which are very hard to discern.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:47 am

Well, it couldn't be a main religious text if it wasn't, could it?

Only something forged by nature itself.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:55 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Your problem is that you are actually a Greek. I never supposed I could actually bear that pain, or that honor. They had their religion, and they are my religion.

Well, then Ive done my job. Become what I am. I do revere like the Greeks did. Maybe there is less of a border for me between my reverence for what they revered, and my reverence for them. As their reverence for what they revered was also the gravest self-reverence.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:03 am

I wouldn't have taken you for less of a Greek than I am - just a younger one.
Still don't, really. But I appreciate the honour. 兄弟.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:07 am

I'm Greek enough.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:20 am

Yes but indeed there is an Ocean there.

American then.
But America is only in the beginning of its Homeric poetry.

A great city state, city on a fucking hill, is in the distant future... if we keep our poetry tight.
My compliments on the lyrics you posted recently by the way, they keep getting better, more... expensive. Good craft.
A wide variety of rappers could make money with them. Maybe become a bread writer to enter the industry.
Your lyrics have a quality of a go-to place for some easy mean rapping, not unlike Eazy E - whose best shit was also ghostwritten.
You'd be a Ice Cube.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:45 pm

I'd like that. Though, you know, Eazy Es aren't easy to find!

But I like that...
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby promethean75 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:05 pm

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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:28 pm

My name is Eazy E and I have bitches galore. It is possible thay you have a lot of bitches, but I have a fair amount more.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:34 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:I'd like that. Though, you know, Eazy Es aren't easy to find!

But I like that...

Ghostwriting is a big business in rap.
Like Still DRE was written by Jay Z

I recommend you pick some rappers and analyze how they might sound on your lyrics.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:37 pm

promethean75 wrote:https://streamable.com/qmf9l

you could make millions as an entertainer if you had a consistent idea

you even fit in SNL or crap like that on account you're a Trump hating progressive.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:53 pm

Lol yeah.

Dude's a millionaire refusing to happen.

Tragic story of corrupted youth.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:30 am

Anaximenes believed in a primordial substance, which he figured to be air, and he thought fire was a rarified form of air, and wind, cloud, water, earth and stone to follow from further rarefaction, and for this reason some accredit him with being the first to recognize that substances aren't absolute. He thought the moon and earth flat disks floating through the air and the stars to be holes punctured in the sky dome. As the student of Anaximander, he was the last of the Miletan philosophers. The cause of this is given as being a Persian invasion but this occurred after his death. Hyppolitus says of him: "He says that the stars do not move under the earth as others have supposed, but around it, as a felt cap turns around our head. The sun is hidden not because it is under the earth but because it is covered by the higher parts of the earth and on account of the greater distance it comes to be from us."

Scholars understand Anaximander and Anaximenes both as substance-monists, not understanding that Anaximanders apeiron was not a substance, because they have no knowledge of occult theory. The strong Presocratics were powerful occultists, able to use the mind as a forge. Just like the Eleatic Anaxagoras and unlike his Miletan predecessor Thales, Anaximander refuses any particular substance the role of arche; both posit substance, or in the case of Anaxagoras at least the perceptible phases of substance, as the result of an unmanifest. Anaximander points simply "the indefinite", Anaxagoras, being of the school of Parmenides, posited Nous, the mind. Anaximenes however understood principle as a physical mechanism; things were literally created out of thin air, infinite thin air which produced clouds and down the line winds and precipitation, and finally Earth and its species.

The most elegant application of his air-monism theory is perhaps how it helps him retain a deism while maintaining the terminology of natural philosophy. Augustine writes: "[Anaximenes] [...] attributed all the causes of things to infinite air, and did not deny that there were gods, or pass over them in silence; yet he believed not that air was made by them, but that they arose from air."
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:05 am

Edit - erred in my reading there attributing him to Atmanic things.

Perhaps Im not doing justice to the man in general but what I read lacks elegance, especially compared to his teacher. More than that, what he held to be true is most often not true.

Anaximanders ideas hold up after over 2500 years or are at least pretty close to the way things turned out to work physically, where Anaximenes' cosmology holds no relevance at all.
Anaxagorases cosmology of all things being in all things and of there being no end to size either up or down seems rather futuristic, like something you could use for time travel. By comparison to Anaximenes but even to Plato who btw apparently used this air-idea of Anaximenes, that is very good stuff to ponder and apply tot modern knowledge. The idea that all quality is hidden in all qualities and that they're distributed differently to form elements is not so much wrong as a very taxing equation to pull off in practice - it is like Wittgenstein without the language barrier. Or something. Anyway it is a useful concept you could use to develop a programming language or a data analysis protocol, or investigate the uncertainty principle in a broader scope to perhaps discover subtle regularities ... certainly he is the cause of me having these ideas now, proving his salt across thousands of years making money for people who will use it to get happy, he's like a first motion himself. Fuck. His idea is of a first motivator and this idea itself works as a first motivator.
Last edited by Fixed Cross on Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:13 am

So Anaxagoras thinks that Mind animates the spiralling of al things as being simply in all things, and due to the whirling motion, causing things to be extracted and attracted and distributed according to the particular things natures, while retaining all things in them. He further posits that reality is infinitely reducible in scale in both directions. These are both qualities of a fractal - he probably had some acquaintance with the "Elysian Mysteries", the possession and distribution of which led to Alcibiades' arrest one time.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:45 pm

"America is dead. In spirit, it no longer even exists. This is why even Trump is spending like crazy, he knows the only way to sustain the illusion is to keep pumping out more and more increasing amounts of capital. Because there is nothing left to fall back on.

This recent rise in the last 5-10 years of “identity politics” as an open and accepted issue is the final sign of the end. The mind is dying, screaming its last gasps of terror as it drowns. I’m not being hyperbolic, I’m being serious.

Of course even in any major collapse event or any situation where things go to Hell your going to still have plenty of reasonable people, people not sucked into the chaos. But that doesn’t matter. Once critical mass of irrationality is reached then it’s over. The remaining more or less rational people even if they’re a majority don’t even matter at that point. And yes we are now at that point. Because irrationality as such, ignorance and idiocy for its own sake, has taken over public discourse, the institutions, media, and policy. So it’s over. Let’s just be honest about that fact."



"BTL is now over 8 years old. Back when this forum was started, these sort of things hadn’t really taken off yet. I didn’t run into many such “arguments” and “positions”. Now, suddenly they are not only everywhere but presumed always to be victorious. There is no out, no way to fight back, because the mind has killed itself. It happened quickly. And now we will see the practical effects of this in the real world as massive spending to try and keep the illusion going a little longer is going to lead to depression and economic collapse as debt cannot be serviced. At that point some people will wake up and remember the role and value of reason, of recognizing and valuing truth for its own sake, but by then it will be too late.

I am sad to see that BTL had to arise so close to the end. I am more saddened to see humanity killing itself. But I suppose that’s just in its nature, because it’s happening. I wish the next iteration of sentient life, whatever and wherever it may be in the future, better luck than we had.


Ad extremum vale"

- Capable-Aletheia







Maybe you're right.

I still interpret it all in terms of my astrological scheme, where when Pluto enters Aquarius, I expect a complete overhaul of mentally and spirit. But that is still over three years from now, so no point in getting fluffy and optimistic now before such a drastic experience as you, as a working American, are having these past years. I cant "relativize" that. I don't know what its like to be in the greatest country on Earth, perhaps of history, and see it collapse into a pool of aggressive, poisonous retardation, and all the while having to struggle to keep ones head above water and not have the luxury to sit back and watch the show, as I have had for a while now. Though that luxury is running out.

However. I do believe my predictions are being met, even though I had no idea what exactly the chaos I predicted was going to be like. I didn't know about the depths of insanity lurking. I really did not quite fathom that. And I don't know how we will manage the coming years.

Jupiter is about to enter Capricorn. There it will join Pluto and Saturn who are already there, now nearly conjunct around the 22th degree. Venus is also in Capricorn now. Jupiters ingress is the 3rd of December I believe. It is its first ingress into an Earth sign since we started the calendar.

Many people are afraid of what Jupiter will do when he activates Pluto and Saturn. World War 1 was started during a Pluto-Saturn conjunction. Im not sure if, for philosophy, there isn't also an opportunity coming. As so many tens of millions, hundreds of em really, are aware of the precipice we are at, philosophy can perhaps rise above the surface and announce itself.



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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:56 pm

Pezer, Capable also posted this link,

https://bcb.home.xs4all.nl/rietdijk.html

I think you'll like this guy.

Wim Rietdijk wrote:One feature of our argument is that, partly via something that has been called super-rationalism, we come to te idea of meaning. Super-rationalism boils down to determinism – also based on some physical disproofs of the “fundamental uncertainty and fuzziness” quantummechanics starts from – and a deep coherence of nature and its laws.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:17 pm

I might check him out later. He uses a format that I have clearly come to identify as neo-nazi intellectualism. Not saying that means he is, but he probably is, but I cannot condemn in this case until I have read some. Which I might later.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:34 pm

Zoot Allures has hit upon the kit of neo-nazism, and probably nazism as a conscious subjective experience itself. First, apocalypse must be accepted. Which hits upon the point I made a while ago, that Nazism is a simple off-shoot of fanatic catholicism (here catholicism in the sense we today use islamicism). Not only accepted, but desired. Unlike communists though, the nazi doesn't then take it upon himself to actually produce the downfall, for that would be a betrayal of the faith. Also by not producing it themselves, they like to think they are staking out a position of on high, a snarky understanding that sees the true gold at the center from which "society" is created, the "christian" society they unwittingly will, a society in the service of the fanatic Catholic God, and from which they can design the "truth." Apocalypse here is not simply a means to an end, it is itself a transfigurative religous event.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:35 pm

In the end, the "golden society" is simply an excuse before their still Christian God (which they need for sustenance) for their sexual bliss at the apocalypse itself. No other apocalyptician can own apocalypse so well, for only here is it endorsed by a God.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:39 pm

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