The Philosophers

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:51 am

Still playing that Turok play through as audio.




Mario Kart both SNES and N64 were sublime.

shaving off time at this track with Donkey Kong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux6g2CBJfh0
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:52 am

Fuoock.

Ok enough goddamnit. Fucking Mario. Japanese LSD dropping motherfuckers.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:55 am

When your headphones begin to feel like glasses.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:20 pm

Samuel Alexander lived in a time of exploding scientific developments with which he simply could not keep up. His writing is mostly the expression of profound confusion, so much so that it is sometimes hard to discern any content at all, besides the so enormously compelling dichotomy between what is in the mind and what is physical. This dichotomy is expressed in virtually all that he says. Relentlessly pointless thinker.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Dante Alighieri created, to put it generously, or standardized, to put to prudently, the Italian language, which he also gave its name. He spent his life entrenched in political battle over the fate of Florence and the role of the papacy, and as he suffered the blows from fate he received on this account his writing became more ambitious and he eventually produced the three books of what is surely one of the most renowned works in human history, the Comedia ("Divina" was later added by fellow poet Boccaccio), the rendering of the various forms of Christian afterlife, drawing pre-christian myth and literature into the Christian domain.

He came to fruition as a poet under the influence of the troubadours, and his unconsummated devotion for the girl Beatrice fits well between the sensual love of the troubadours an the papal virgin cult which was established largely to combat the worldly sensuality of the dangerous singer-songwriter cult. Incidentally, the term "troubadour" means "finder" and refers to the practice of digging up old themes musical and poetic and throwing them together in new ways to recreate culture, and this is what Dante did more successfully than any other.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:12 pm

Antonio Aliotta was commissioned by the Royal Society of Naples to conduct a study of the various strains of contemporary thought concerning cognition for the greater glory of scientific philosophy in the early 20th century. He gets caught up in the distinction "intellectualism" vs "anti-intellectualism", studies Spencer and Mach, pits Neohegelianist revelationalism against empiro-criticism and performs a critical examination of neo-criticism. He eventually concludes that the concept does not stand in the way of intuition, and after a study of Anglo-American pragmatism he argues for the superiority of the concept vs the images produced by the senses where it concerns scientific elaboration. Nevertheless he finishes by arguing for the inclusion of ethics, aesthetics and in general things concerning the values of the human soul into the general scientific approach to cognition.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:28 am

When an Italian says it, it's something different.

Marco Iacoboni
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:41 am

Archibald Alison was a publishing and priests whose "sermons were characterised by quiet beauty of thought and grace of composition." His preaching drew such an audience that they had to build a bigger church. Indeed it is difficult to give account of the mans mind in a summary, as he covers a great deal of very different subjects in serious depth with a jovial, indifferent compassion, not entirely unlike Emerson.

Ill let the man speak for himself a bit.



Of Miscellaneous Sounds.

1. All sounds in general are sublime, which are
associated with ideas of danger ; the howling of a
storm, — the murmuring of an earthquake*— the report
of artillery — the explosion of thunder, &c.

2. All sounds are in general sublime, which are
associated with ideas of great power or might ; the
noise of a torrent — the fall of a cataract — the uproar of
a tempest — the explosion of gunpowder — the dashing
of the waves, &c,

3. All sounds, in the same manner, are sublime,
which are associated with ideas of majesty, or solemnity,
or deep melancholy, or any other strong emotion ; the
sound of the trumpet, and all other warlike instruments
-r-the note of the organ — ^the sound of the curfew — ^the
tolling of the passing bell, &c.

That the sublimity of such sounds arises from the
ideas of danger, or power, or majesty, &c. which are
associated with them, and not from the sounds them-
selves, or from any original fitness in such sounds, to
produce this emotion, seems to be obvious from the
following considerations :

[...]

The sound of thunder is, perhaps of all others in na-
ture, the most sublime. In the generality of mankind,
this sublimity is founded on awe, and some degree of
terror; yet how different is the emotion which it gives
to the peasant who sees at last, after a long drought,
the consent of heaven to his prayers for rain*— to the
philosopher, who from the height of the Alps, hears it
roll beneath his feet— to the soldier, who, under the
impression of ancient superstition, welcomes it, upon
the moment of engagement, as the omen of victory !
in all these cases, the sound itself is the same : but
how different the nature of the sublimity it produces !
the report of artillery is sublime, from the images both
of power and of danger we associate with it. The
noise of an engagement heard from a distance is
dreadfully sublime. The firing of a review is scarcely
more than magnificent. The sound of a real dcir-
mish between a few hundred men, would be more
sublime than all the noise of a/eigned engagement
between a hundred, thousand men.


On Napoleon

The character of Napoleon has been drawn
by his contemporaries with more graphic
power than any other conqueror in history;
and yet so varied and singular is the combina-
tion of qualities which it exhibits, and so much
at variance with what we usually observe in
human nature around us, that there is no man
can say he has a clear perception of what it
actually was : Brave, without being chival-
rous ; sometimes humane, seldom generous ;
insatiable in ambition ; inexhaustible in re-
sources ; without a thirst for blood, but totally
indifferent to it when his interests were con-
cerned ; without any fixed ideas on religion,
but a strong perception of its necessity as a
part of the mechanism of government ; a great
general with a small army, a mighty conqueror
with a large one ; gifted with extraordinary
powers of perception, and the clearest insight
into every subject connected with mankind ;
without extensive information derived from
study ; but the rarest aptitude for making him-
self master of every subject from actual ob-
servation ; ardently devoted to glory, and yet
incapable of the self-sacrifice which consti-
tutes its highest honours ; he exhibited a mix-
ture of great and selfish qualities, such as
perhaps never were before combined in any
single individual. His greatest defect was the
constant and systematic disregard of truth
which pervaded all Iris thoughts. He was
totally without the droiture, or honesty, which
forms the best and most dignified feature in
the Gothic or German character. The maxim,
Magna est veritas et pravalebit, never seems to
have crqssed his mind. His intellect was the
perfection of that of the Celt or Greek ; with-
out a shadow of the magnanimity and honesty
which has ever characterized the Roman and
Gothic races of mankind. Devoted as he was
to the captivating idol of posthumous fame ;
deeming, as he did, that to live in the recollec-
tion and admiration of future ages " constituted
the true immortality of the soul," he never
seems to have been aware that truth is essen-
tial to the purest and most lasting celebrity ;
and that the veil which artifice or flattery
draws over falsehood during the prevalence
of power, will be borne away with a merciless
hand on its termination.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:04 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:When an Italian says it, it's something different.

Marco Iacoboni

When I first looked his guy up I got results for some sports coach and twitter feed. Must have misspelled. Now I see he is a neuroscientist.
Last edited by Fixed Cross on Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:01 pm

Abdullah al-Quasemi was a modern age Saudi Arabian philosopher well deserving of the title. Not a lot of thinkers are as brave as this guy. He made a turnaround from defending a certain form of the big faith to defending secularism and opposing organized religion. As a first consequence, al-Quasemi was expelled from Al Azhar university in Cairo because of his sublimely titled book "The chandelier in the sweep of the Dark Darkness". After he was banned he made a definitive turn for secularism and scepticism to the point where people began to regard him an atheist. He was the target of more than one assassination attempt and was finally imprisoned in Yemen because of his great influence among Yemeni youth. His works have naturally been banished, and on reddit I found this comment: "He's an interesting man. A lot of Saudis cling to the idea that he repented near the end of his life and found Allah again before he died, even though there's no real evidence of that."

Here are a few citations.

"We wanted, then imagined, we believed, and in the end, we were convinced."

"Man does not want the knowledge that would hurt his will. He prefers to be silly but happy than intelligent and poor."

"If they don want to eternalize themselves in underdevelopment and ignorance, and to leave their sloth behind, the musulmen have to benefit from the patrimony of humanity's science and understand that there is nothing to know that is destructive and no useful ignorance. And that knowledge is the origin of the good and that evil comes with ignorance."

"The occupation by [name of the god] of our hearts is the worst of colonialisms,"

"Reason changes because it is strong, the strong thing doesn't stagnate, it transforms, the strongest is always changing more than the weak and the non-existent. What remains still in perpetuity doesn't exist."

"Men find their religions as they find their homelands, their lands, their homes and their fathers. They just find them, they do not search for them, do not understand them, do not choose them either."

"Those who do not know how to smile finally institutionalize tears and call to consider this as an adoration."
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:52 pm



Joe Rogan Experience #1366 - Richard Dawkins

"Richard Dawkins, FRS FRSL is an English ethologist, evolutionary biologist, and author. He is an emeritus fellow of New College, Oxford, and was the University of Oxford's Professor for Public Understanding of Science from 1995 until 2008."

https://imgur.com/a/b0DJ7OV
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:58 pm

Honestly, I see young prince there in SA as the political toungue of that fork.

Both characteristically Saudi Arabian: with calm graduality, in no hurry about such a certain thing as certainty, but with no pause or relenting either.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:00 pm

Fuck Dawkins, man.

Dude lost it after The Extended Phenotype. When he realized how analphabet science is in the face of philosophy, he became a shell of a thinker.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:01 pm

Men like Iacoboni are far happier to stick with the curve.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:42 pm

Here's the distinction as I see it between science and philosophy:

Philosophy deals with what matters.

Science deals with what can be measured.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:17 pm

Naturally, Ive always disliked Dawkins and been very contemptuous of him - not a shred of philosophy in him much like any Englishman bearing the title. But somewhere in this interview is a small bit of information about some politics going on, about which I do not wish to be explicit. I place breadcrumbs here and there for the hypothetical Hansl.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:19 pm

Tell me about his Iacobini if you would. Ive watched a piece of one of the videos that have him talking but it was very long about some specific project they were undertaking. Whats your background with him?
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:21 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Here's the distinction as I see it between science and philosophy:

Philosophy deals with what matters.

Science deals with what can be measured.

Yes, philosophy even has to define "mattering".

And you phrased it, it is very clear how the term 'value' indicates both the philosophic and the scientific objective and materials, and in the very different meaning of the term here shows the different temperaments of science and philosophy.
Last edited by Fixed Cross on Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:22 pm

For a long time I considered studying neuroscience at university. During that time, I read Iacoboni's The Mirror Neuron. It is the neuroscientist's version of a pirate movie. That guy GETS it. That book is also where I found out about a machine whose name I forget, that is able to electromagnetically switch neurons on and off at the individual neuron level.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:25 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:Here's the distinction as I see it between science and philosophy:

Philosophy deals with what matters.

Science deals with what can be measured.

Yes, philosophy even has to define "mattering".

And you phrased it, it is very clear how the term 'value' indicates both the philosophic and the scientific objective and materials, and in the very different meaning of the term here shows the different temperaments of science and philosophy.


Yes yes. This was never in doubt.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:29 pm

That is more interesting than anything Dawkins, yes.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:40 pm

So to pin them down isn't easy.

"In humans, brain activity consistent with that of mirror neurons has been found in the premotor cortex, the supplementary motor area, the primary somatosensory cortex, and the inferior parietal cortex."

"Small populations of mirror neurons have been found in areas of the brains of monkeys, humans, and birds. In the macaque brain, those areas include area F5 of the inferior frontal cortex (ventral premotor cortex) and the inferior parietal lobule (IPL)."

"It is not normally possible to study single neurons in the human brain, so most evidence for mirror neurons in humans is indirect. Brain imaging experiments using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) have shown that the human inferior frontal cortex and superior parietal lobe are active when the person performs an action and also when the person sees another individual performing an action. It has been suggested that these brain regions contain mirror neurons, and they have been defined as the human mirror neuron system."

mirror neuron.png
mirror neuron.png (54.98 KiB) Viewed 89 times

"The mirror neurons can be activated only after the goal of the observed action has been attributed by other brain structures."
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:03 pm

"LEHRER: If we're wired to automatically internalize the movements and mental states of others, then what does this suggest about violent movies, television programs, video games, etcetera? Should we be more careful about what we watch?

IACOBONI: I believe we should be more careful about what we watch. This is a tricky argument, of course, because it forces us to reconsider our long cherished ideas about free will and may potentially have repercussions on free speech."

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... n-revolut/
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:07 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Honestly, I see young prince there in SA as the political toungue of that fork.

Both characteristically Saudi Arabian: with calm graduality, in no hurry about such a certain thing as certainty, but with no pause or relenting either.

And the process can be enjoyed from a position of great luxury.
Much art could be born, in fact such a transition could perhaps only take place where nature feasts on herself like in a Renaissance.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:08 pm

Anyway what a mirror neuron does is locking value down, so as for it to become natural force, WtP.
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