## The Philosophers

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

### Re: The Philosophers

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Damn, I thought this thread was dormant. Well um. Anyway, I made a follow-up to the Rhetoric installment. Here it is.

http://sendvid.com/gd4ccpwz

Efficient rhetoric actually. Aristotle said always to leave out half, so the audience can imagine it, in dire times one perhaps needs to leave out all content from the expressions of profundity.

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### Re: The Philosophers

Going back to the Clan archives. I think this stuff ages well.

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### Re: The Philosophers

By the way, the Chameleon is real. I think it's in HATH maybe. But it's there. The minutious Nietzsche reader will see what I'm szzaying.

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### Re: The Philosophers

Pedro I Rengel wrote:

Going back to the Clan archives. I think this stuff ages well.

What a record, damn.
I still had the courage of my convictions which is for all types a virtue except for the philosopher.
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
~ Владимир Ильич Ульянов Ленин

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### Re: The Philosophers

Pedro I Rengel wrote:By the way, the Chameleon is real. I think it's in HATH maybe. But it's there. The minutious Nietzsche reader will see what I'm szzaying.

Yes, I see.
I like the stunned and doubtful silence it causes in me.

Hearing this back, I havent thought about this order of the ages much since, I am puzzled. What would it explain? It does seem to indicate some possible aspects of the future. But is this of value? Was I stuck in a triviality, a philological frivolity or was this an instinct for the inevitable?

If there is any value to the return to a barbaric age as a notion, it should be utilitarian. As Faust says, how am I supposed to go about my (philosophical, even eternally recurring) day armed with this knowledge? Cui bono?

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### Re: The Philosophers

The seasons of power.

Events to which are the guardians like gateways to comprehension, about the human subject.

Events, wars

events that never happened
the dweller on the threshold
https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/13037 ... g-hexagon/

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### Re: The Philosophers

Yeah but this one is my favorite. Zen man. By the power of Zen!

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### Re: The Philosophers

Pieneuf said

yeah that felt strong I remember.

Goddamn. We actually did create philosophical experience. Insanely good memories.

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### Re: The Philosophers

God exists because he exists by his definition. Thats very good.

Meno, my sock puppets weren't systemically deranged enough to be banned. What can I say. Im not the only one who has registered more than once. But I don't do it to run from myself. Its just also existence.

Im also an indian sage around here

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### Re: The Philosophers

Screen Shot 2019-06-02 at 4.57.23 PM.png (25.06 KiB) Viewed 1229 times

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### Re: The Philosophers

Subject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fixed and Value Ontology - Page 2 EmptyTue Dec 02, 2014 12:14 pm
Cohesion only requires the "self" which is constructing it as a singular thing.
It need not be innate in the phenomenon.

This your agreement with the Fixed.

The only self I acknowledge is the living organism which is, itself, an incomplete unity.

The tone is not self=cohesive, it is (inter)acting, discovered in the midst of ts particular (inter)action in time/space.
Th mind makes it a thing, a one.

Self-Honesty is a matter of self-knowledge.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fixed and Value Ontology - Page 2 EmptyTue Dec 02, 2014 12:24 pm
Satyr wrote:
Cohesion only requires the "self" which is constructing it as a singular thing.
It need not be innate in the phenomenon.

This your agreement with the Fixed.

Their definition of cohesion as per their video, was "violation" of its suchness, what violates and splits its congruence.

You can interpret me whichever way.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fixed and Value Ontology - Page 2 EmptyTue Dec 02, 2014 12:38 pm
Then they are projecting their "suchness" as being willful, or part of some universal motive.

As "such" everything perceived can be "evaluated", using self, as part of a grand scheme, some unifying law.
And so you've found your own.

Lyssa wrote:
You can interpret me whichever way.

Thanks, I will, as I always have, whether you approve or give me the "right" or not.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fixed and Value Ontology - Page 2 EmptyTue Dec 02, 2014 12:48 pm
Satyr wrote:
Then they are projecting their "suchness" as being willful, or part of some universal motive.

As "such" everything perceived can be "evaluated", using self, as part of a grand scheme, some unifying law.

Its not for no reason, I'd titled that thread as the "Hyperreality of the Humanarchization of VO".

I had already made a list of their statements to expose their hedonistic liberal/sec.humanist/libertarian agenda, at a time that suited me...

Video wrote:
@52:00 - we are not saying things need to be this way or that way, but to make you more aware of this is what you have valued.

@56 - "same incentives" as xt., marxism, etc. need to be installed into humans but without turning into institutions. VO lets how we relate to each other to keep the unity.

@1:02:14 - The challenge is to affirm your own group wthout rejecting any other group

@1:03 - a mature identity doesn't divide into classes, but that we are a part of this group because we see something of value in it and not because we hate the other; we are just distinct.

@1:05 - we are giving them power to empower themselves

@1:06 - it is not relativism because it is objectively true for each subjective being; my subjective experience is what it is - it is reality for me, your values are no less than your very existence. not valued by some universal agenda or world order. they are creating the world as they explicate their values. if valuing is all that exists,, you effectively allow other beings to grow... many worlds grow and become possible.

@1:09 - what are your core values and how do you make those values thrive? there will be more joy in the world, living more fulfilled lives, we'll achieve more.

@1:11 - if you change how you approach the world, it will literally change your eyes.

...but pls. dont spare me any credit; I want none of it.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fixed and Value Ontology - Page 2 EmptyTue Dec 02, 2014 1:00 pm
I'm sure you've offered me no less of a "free pass".

I speak of reality, not politics, or how to trick others to "maintain unity".
Did anyone say Strauss was not hiding his agenda?

This comes after you perceive what is.

You sound very close to Fixed.
Maybe he can fix you well.
Maybe you've been broken.

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This was all very interesting, as indeed the issue of antagonism has been the crucial doubt as to how to proceed.
At which level does VO account for antagonism and destruction, the gladness of destroying an opponent is obviously directly available as interpretation.

Now we have the theorem of the attack in 4 levels:

Mass
Energy
Speed
Style

Mass and Energy speak for themselves as means to dominion.
A culture with great Speed is necessarily superior in knowledge. Speed relates to epistemology, consensus, information. Light "is" information.
Greater Style simply means that even an energetically dominant culture will want nothing more than to assimilate to that style. How Greece conquered Rome, made it into her servant and messenger by being coveted and usurped by it.
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
~ Владимир Ильич Ульянов Ленин

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### Re: The Philosophers

Haha. I retrieved this from CeltX which warned me it was going to terminate my account if I didn't log in. So I logged in and found, among other things, this script.

Code: Select all
Water - it's dangerousWater, the number one dependencythis moment there are over 7 billion people going through water-addiction.It affects every aspect of their lives.Water is a pervasive element in today's society.Face the facts.Are you an addict?A rehab situation.A camera is going round a circle of beings. They are all addicts. One of them, PEDRO, is making his confession.pedroWell hi, my name is Pedro. I'm a water addict.circleHi Pedro.PEDROI remember this one time... Ive been addicted to water all my life. I remember this first time. I was thirsty and I saw this hose there, and I turned it on, and.... I drank It.I drank it until I'd satisfied my craving. Nothing compares to that feeling. That's why it's so hard to quit.ClappingPEDROI've been off water for two days now. It feels good.... I finally feel like a person again. But it's hard. Even now I'm thirsty.People shift in their seats. Dry swallows.Pasty mouthsoundsPErdroBut at least now I can say that I'm a dignified, water-free being. (loud voice) I don't need water!groupNo you don't. No you don't.In the background, everybody is moved and one person wells up. The person next to her notices and lunges at her and starts licking her face. People jump in and pull them apart.Group leaderTears are also water.PEDRO(Emotional) Tears are also water! Tears are also water! Tears are also water!The group claps and people try to hold their tears. Stoic faces and repressed but violent sniffing all around.

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### Re: The Philosophers

"Dry swallows."

I spat out my food in laughter.

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### Re: The Philosophers

We are solid writers.

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### Re: The Philosophers

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PostSubject: Resolutions of politics Resolutions of politics Icon_minitimeFri May 24, 2019 8:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The complete resolution of politics,
Part 1: Ground-layer

Politics is a good deal more amoral than even Nietzsche thought, since politics isn’t even about 'human values' or will to power; politics is a natural-physical process taking place at the level of constructed sociocultural substance and at the level of genetics. “Political” ramifications upon psychology at the individual and group levels are just secondary effects of this. We write our own desires and feelings onto the process which gives it the impression of being a moral thing, and that’s all fine and good but fundamentally those morals don’t coincide with or alter politics itself. Like psychological implications, our moralities are secondary side-effects of the underlying reality.

Sociocultural substance is comprised of a network of such “sociocultural” substances as Moldbug points out, which involve interacting sets of traditions, rules, laws, norms, definitions and restrictions. Include things like stories and mythologies in that too. This “substance” is literally an onto-epistemo-metaphysical structure comprised in a sense as a “pure logical form” that endures in reality over time and manifests as a people, a group, a nation, a civilization, etc. The pure excess of truth the existence and primary importance of which Parodites reminds us of is partitioned into quantities and these quantities set in meaningful mutually delimiting relations to one another, causing the original impetus for the formation of these sort of structures and substance in the first place. Once the structures and substance exist they continue to hold themselves in existence by self-valuing according to their own internal logic and various survival requirements. Dutton points out that religion is used here as a selected-for mechanism to solve the problem of free rider behavior and to keep the overall set of structures more or less intact over time. This works for a while until technology is developed to a point where small entropic releases of latent energies trapped in the substance are able to be tolerated as a kind of inter-structural excess creating an outer and inner dynamic whereby small bits of structural order can be loosened here or there to produce new available energy to the entire system, all without fundamentally disturbing the equilibrium of the system as a whole. This is as Moldbug notes with the whole ant and grasshopper analogy.

This continues for a while until technological development reaches a level that allows for survival of such a high percentage of individuals in the society that social and biological selection pressures collapse; as Woodley notes this causes gene mutations to begin to percolate up the social hierarchy and cause a reversal of the downward social mobility of gene mutations, both good and bad mutations, which had been occurring. Previous to this high level of technological development, the society was dealing with gene mutations by pushing harmful mutations down into the lower classes where they tended to die out due to brutal selection pressure, while concentrating beneficial gene mutations at the top in the upper classes, but which beneficial mutations also distributed to everyone at all social levels due to downward social mobility. Now with the collapse of selection pressure starting in the upper classes and moving gradually down to the lower classes too, beneficial mutations are no longer selected for while harmful mutations accumulate and push up through the social classes. This leads to a feedback loop caused by social epistatic amplification whereby genomic integrity declines in proportion to the decline of the integrity of the sociocultural structures and vice versa. This allows for the technological entropic-compensating process to increase exponentially and begin to consume the structures at a runaway pace, causing a collapse at the level of the civilizational substance itself.

There is no solution to this dilemma. Once the structures are dissolved to the point where continued technological progress becomes impossible, and even where the continued maintenance of existing technologies begins to break down, entropy suddenly has no way to be siphoned off into the outer layers as useful energy release and becomes instead a poison in the veins of the substance itself. By this point the substance and all individuals in the society are too genetically degraded, in IQ for example, to be capable of doing anything to solve this problem, since solving the problem would require building back up the former ordered structures of tradition, rules, law, limitation, etc. Social cohesion collapses into individualistic narcissistic behavior as Conquest’s first law is squeezed to the minimum point of expression due to the loss of any social common denominator for coordinated conservative action. Leftist dynamics of pure entropy have attempted to replace the structures and act as a new substance which of course they cannot do because leftism is nothing but entropy of existing structures. Substance can only grow under leftism as a marginal excessive force—once this margin overtake the center the entire system is inverted and falls apart, like we are seeing today in the western world.

Once the civilization experiences runaway collapse events and falls apart the remnants of structure will gather and balkanize as much as possible, as the seeds for a new future civilization are sown throughout the remnants of for former civilization’s territory. Then we can wait another 1000 years for the new dark age to play itself out and eventually form a new set of enduring sociocultural structures leading eventually to the emergence of a new substance, a new civilization. And the whole process starts over again.

___________
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Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man... flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Resolutions of politics Resolutions of politics Icon_minitimeFri May 24, 2019 8:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Part 2: Inter-medial or second layer (human stuff)

Above the ground layer there exists a two-part or perhaps technically multi-part layer, another tectonics; this tectonics consists of mainly two intertwined domains, on the one hand the domain of human desires, needs, and emotions and on the other hand the domain of pure will to power. These two domains intersect and entwine with one another to form the second layer over the first layer of the ground level (part 1 in previous post).

Above the base reality and entirely non-moral requirements of "politics" and "society" and all of that outlined in part 1, this human element rises up and imprints itself onto the surface impressions and salient aspects of the ground layer. We are human, we have many desires, feelings, ideas, wants and needs, sense impressions, biological drives, theories, etc. etc. We also have shared cultural histories and stories, mythologies and religions, etc. etc. All of these things work in tandem as necessary elements of "the human being" at both individual and group levels to comprise the second layer. Since the first layer is based primarily on genetic and physical (physics) realities, this second layer is more "human" and puts our human impressions onto the cold hard natural world below the rocks beneath our feet. The tectonics way down there, the truly amoral level of brutal "direct reality" are always holding us up where we are, but humans still want to put a nicer touch on things, in part to give it more meaning, which is very important, but also to seek to merge the ground layer and the second more human layer together in a synthesis that mirrors the structure of the human mind itself. The ground layer echoes and mirrors much about the brutal reality of the natural human, his genes and physical aspects for example; to bring this together by bringing the two layers into contact we can know more and develop more about ourselves.

It is also interesting that technological development and technology per se is a function primarily of the ground layer and not of the human layer, despite that it appears as it technology springs up from the second human layer. Technology is delimited in both its development and application by structures and arrangements in the second layer, however the impetus and true tectonic power pushing technology up and up occurs from the ground layer, as previously noted in part 1. So what the second layer does is both give retroactive justification and meaning to new technologies as well as delimit and shape to some degree their development and use. The second layer basically appropriates the technological growths that come up from the ground layer, making use of these to enhance a more human world-space. So technology itself is two-part, it functions as pure brutal reality mechanism and it also functions as human value-justification and value-expansion. Technology enables the levels and forms and possibilities of human valuing in totally new ways and to totally new degrees, but that is secondary and quite separate from the effect of technology at the primary level such as discussed in part 1 where technology directly enables the continued and exponential increase of entropy in the system as a whole. It is not necessarily the case that technology has this entropic-productive effect on humans in the second layer. In fact we might say that it even tends to have a reverse effect, to close up some of the excess tendencies to entropic decays. Humans will value-appropriate technology to themselves and make it a part of themselves in new ways, they will basically justify technology and turn it to properly human roles. This can close up gaps in the systems as well as fortify the hardened capital shell around the civilization and along its spine.

Looking at the dual nature of the second layer, we have the "human" aspect generative of what is called meaning or conscience, desire, need, want, image-making, storytelling, feelings, etc. etc. and we also have the pure harsh will to power aspect also. The will to power aspect comes directly from Nietzsche and he elaborated this very well. There are all sort of Machiavellian power games going on within politics, society, economics, just as there are all sort of individual psychological will to power games going on within individual human beings and which games often play a role in person to person relationships. But despite how muddied this all is together and contra Nietzsche's view that we might reduce everything to "willing to power", it is the case that both of these aspects of the second layer really are two distinct realms. Pure will to power as logical principle and ontological fact play their role in the development and maintenance of human things, but those human things cannot be reduced to that will to power aspect. This failure of reduction mirrors the failure of reduction from the second tectonic layer to the grounding tectonics: it is the case that no level can be reduced to the other, despite that there appear massive imbalances and tectonic shifts, volcanic eruptions forming totally new island chains and landmasses; even as we can tie one layer so firmly into the other and see so many consequent causal logistics occurring, these layers remain distinct. This holds true between the ground and the second layer, and it holds true between the "human" and the "will to power" aspects within and of the second layer itself. Irreduction is a critical aspect to understand if one wishes to begin to form a properly philosophical understanding of things. And irreduction does not mean absolute irreduction, for that too would be just one more... false reduction.

Seating all things 'human' most firmly within this second layer, we can see how these interact with existing political realities and shape political, economic, and social arrangements. One key principle of the second layer's enduring stability is the principle of locality, whereby forces organize from the bottom up or rather from the inside out, stabilizing themselves in self-valuing fashion. Relationships are formed as agreements of mutual benefit, between individuals and families and groups and tribes and nations etc. etc. Something like 80-90% of what is really meant when things like society, politics, economics comes up and when we look at these realities in the world is something directly about the second layer. The second layer is in a sense the largest of the three layers, although there is no way to really compare the size of the ground layer with the size of the second layer because they are so categorically different from one another. In any case, when we talk about politics we are usually taking mostly about something to do with the second layer, and this second layer is also where most people put into and get from their political aspirations, inclinations, goals, justifications, feelings and motivations, etc.

Realities percolate up from the ground layer and take human shape in and as the second layer. Then we play around with these more human things and build what amounts to, in the ideal anyway, a self-contained human world. This works out most of the time to a sufficiently large extent. Most disagreements in politics and society are formulated in and about something to do with second-layer tectonics. This is especially true since the ground layer remains all but invisible to most people and to most political calculus; the more 'brutally real' of the political world in practice, both salient and hidden, is still something almost entirely to do with the will to power aspect of the second layer. Note that this does not even descend down into the ground layer but is, like all more "human" aspects, another secondary side-effect shaping things post-hoc into the various forms of human imagination.

___________
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man... flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Resolutions of politics Resolutions of politics Icon_minitimeFri May 24, 2019 9:03 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Part 3: Law, pure logic and rational construction; the third layer

The third layer that rests atop the second layer is that of law. This includes overt and covert law, open and closed laws and law-making, and it contains the reasons and rationales of law. It also includes pure logical and rational structures, again on all possible levels including practical and pure theory levels, that relate to laws; law also means the strict economic functions and forms as well, as in capitalism and its processes, and also includes whatever happen to be the philosophical roots of abstraction and speculative-possible thought, including science of course, that are the case for any group or civilization at any given moment. This is also therefore where we can locate much of the actual reality of the 'hardened capital' as well as therefore a huge bulk of the contents of culture. Culture is a strange thing that mixes from and come out of the interplay between the second and third layers. Culture in a way is a kind of direct image-symbol for precisely how the second and third layers relate to each other.

We can already see that the third layer is very different from the second layer and it is the case that the second layer cannot be reduced to the third nor the third to the second. They are distinct. They relate and together comprise basically the human world in all of its obvious facets. Together the second and third layers form the second half of the total equation, balanced out by the first half which is the grounding layer that remains most separate and hidden of all the layers. Politics at the level of law and pure reason that happen to exist, not counting any kind of Machiavellian schemes or calculus of pure will to power for such things are firmly of the second layer and not of the third layer, comes almost entirely from the third layer; the third layer is "reasoning as such" or we might call it the philosophical layer, the layer of greatest abstraction and logical potency, the layer in which science, math, philosophy most participate although of course this participation includes much gathering of things from the second layer, and even at times from the ground layer as well.

These three layers are stacked upon one another. Brutal realities shift up from the ground and are tectonically absorbed and dissipated into the second layer; the second layer grows and is delimited by the third layer which is developed at a different pace than things develop in the second layer, and each layer therefore has quite its own being and nature, its own categorical logic. If either the second layer cannot continue effectively absorbing and mediating ground-layer realities, or the third layer cannot continue effectively absorbing and mediating-delimiting second-layer realities, due to breakdowns in either the second or third layer, or due to catastrophic problems occurring in the ground layer, then the entire civilizational structure wavers and ultimately falls apart.

Right now in our present time there are massive problems in the ground layer which are due to feedback loops developing between the second layer and the ground layer, which feedback loops themselves are occurring because of problems between the second and third layer, as the third layer ultimately breaks down in a large way. These feedback loops cause a dissipation of the ground layer's structure and governing realities, a collapse of nature as it were, and this in turn begins to make the second layer more and more unstable; as the second layer becomes more unstable it loses more and more contact with the third layer as well, and all feedback and entropic focus redounds upon the second layer and gathers there, because the second layer is not only the most "humanly real" of the three layers and not only the largest of them, but is also the one in-between the other two. Feedbacks and energetic tides tend to push into the second layer, also because the second layer is most able of all the layers to handle and dissipate, structure and make sense of such excesses (in normal circumstances the second layer can mediate huge amounts of excess without anyone even noticing, that is how deep these 'human aspects' are). The second layer is beginning to go insane as it loses its structural onto-epistemo-logical groundings and moorings; ontologically it is displaced by the disabling feedbacks that are depowering the ground layer, and epistemologically it is crumbling due to massive failures at the third layer of philosophical vision in both theory and practice. As is obvious, a point is reached where errors on each level simply reverberate with errors on the other levels and the whole tower of civilization shakes and quivers. Once it cannot sustain its own weight anymore it will collapse. That will be a very ugly process, but I am not sure there is anything we can do about it.

It would be possible to analyze the collapse in advance and try to understand and predict it to a degree, and therefore plan for it as well, but I will leave that for another time.

___________
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man... flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Resolutions of politics Resolutions of politics Icon_minitimeFri May 24, 2019 9:16 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
So also we have two directions of idiocy going on at once, just to be precise about it; either society goes for massive statism whereby the religious instinct is falsely appropriated up into governance itself, which is basically what the left stands for now (as Moldbug noted how strange it is that somehow left-leaning people have become convinced that when it comes to government, more is always better), or we have an Islamic invasion of fundamentalist literalist Medieval religion to fight against. We have to fight against both of these things. And right now, because these two (statism and fundamental Islam) understand at some intuitive level that the enemy of their enemy is their friend (note: we, ordinary human beings, and our conceptions of individual rights and our political and cultural power, our wealth, etc. all of that is "the enemy" from their perspective; also of course our freedom) the Statists and the Islamists are basically teaming up to threaten the middle, namely to threaten western civilization itself.

Not enough people in Europe are "reasonably religious" enough anymore to be able to resist this double onslaught.
As the collapse of the natural religious instinct creates a void that is filled by statism, this is a parallel to what Karen Staughan noted with her observation that what all of this mass migration policy and "all are welcome here" stuff looks like objectively and from the outside is one basically one huge feminist "shit test", as she calls it, of men at the hands of women, or more accurately maybe of 'male society' (western society, more or less) at the hands of triggered female psychodynamics.

___________
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Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man... flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Resolutions of politics Resolutions of politics Icon_minitimeFri May 24, 2019 9:42 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I'm not convinced about the patchwork idea. I can definitely see more balkanization occurring, but not this kind of science fiction scenario of so many hundreds or thousands of little advanced city-states in some kind of larger grid of free movement. What would exist to hold that kind of network in place, to prevent war between them for example? Why would people be content to have no voting representation and no power over the inner politics and economics of their city-state? Only a very oppressive tyrannical power could enforce something like that total lack of freedom of the people, and the mere idea they can just move around to other city-states isn't an answer to that.

But yeah, I can definitely see larger nations of today breaking up into smaller nations, as well as some nations being taken over by others and becoming part of larger nations. I just do not see the breakdown of the concept of the nation-state as being likely to occur; globalism is what is going to collapse with the collapse of civilization, and yeah globalism will try to maintain its control and leverage all of its technology and power to maintain the global singular state, but I just cannot see that lasting for very long. I think more like maybe what Parodites thinks will occur; basically the EU and these various globalist institutions will fall apart or lose a lot of their power, there will be massive war in Europe, civil war in Europe and America, economics collapses and a resurgence of locality principles naturally within existing areas and states, and then after some period of chaos for however many years some degree of order will be restored and discussions will begin about how to reconstitute the nation-state boundaries and relationships. The US will be at an advantage in this, and European nations will have advantage too to the degree that they still retain a meaningful degree of their own historical and linguistic-cultural continuity. But the Muslim problem in Europe is going to be a HUGE problem for them once this collapse occurs. This isn't going to be so much a problem in the US, rather in the US there will just be regular problems of crime, that sort of thing. Not the massive invasion force that we see building up in Europe.

Either electricity and internet will basically fall apart, or these will somehow be maintained throughout the collapse; if they fall apart then the collapse will be longer and more violent, but come to a clear resolution after so many years or a couple of decades, and electric and internet will eventually be restored first as new innovations at the local levels rather than in a huge interconnected grid; I can see groups of people digging up fiberoptic cables and equipment using this to rig up local internet networks for their community, etc. Or the other option is that the globalist regime will be able to maintain electrical and internet throughout the collapse, which will mean that the collapse is not actually a total collapse but will be used to further cement and expand the powers of the global state, for example with surveillance controls and controls over digital money. So while the collapse might be less extreme and painful under that second option, we should hope for the first scenario I think.

Also, the centralization of military is another big problem for the US, although the US does have state-level and local level forces and I agree with someone else who said that most people in the military would never join a coup against the people of the US, because the US army is still so civilian focused (volunteer, for example, and often part-time). The bonds are too great, basically, for there to be too massive levels of abuse. However, the build-up of EU armies could be a problem. As is the problem of automated, drone and AI weaponry. And bioweapons of course, things like that.

Basically, the collapse is not going to be pretty. Another dark ages might occur, centuries long. The tension will be between the actual collapse itself as "Event" and the orchestrated planned "collapse" that the globalists want to create in order to cement their power and control. But yeah, I just don't see any kind of utopianism emerging from any of this. The earth won't tolerate such nonsense. And humans are still and will always be highly earthy people, and much more so when the chips are down.

___________
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Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man... flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Resolutions of politics Resolutions of politics Icon_minitimeFri May 31, 2019 12:34 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I think what we are engaging in this century is a technology of sex, which could become the way to reverse the decadence process. Or rather than a technology of it, a philosophizing of it, which already includes all the technocratic forms of sexuality that dominate the culture; it is primarily as an enhancer on the selection mechanism that the scientific prowess we've developed has become a weapon for nature to work on herself. A philosophizing of his would extend to a vast system of categorizing preferences, into which the left has already diffused its once literal self. The power of this phenomenon is, due to the excessive foundations of it, entirely sufficient and adequate to the whole of the human struggle even put together as one great demon - in fact such a demon would merely appear as yet another suitor. And he would as such be subdued in pleasure, which the excess takes on as form and life in case it finds itself challenged in its existence. Excess proves itself through Venutian paths, it survives as form through them. In Mars it dissolves as form and becomes force, war. Excess is ordered in mind but only qua the excessive powers of the human organism, its multifarious beauties and proportions. Logic and excessive practicality (such as science and art) are not properties of a beast that wishes to experience itself, but of a hard fought perfection that discovers that it is, in this perfection, reflected throughout the universe it can perceive. Perfection is only the beginning of the evolution of consciousness, and it is in terms of perfection that it can be developed, and not otherwise, as it will veer off into dreamworlds in which incongruities can exists in symbiotic pathology, the enemy of clarity and thus of a lot of kinds of pain. Perfection is the consequence of much that is undesirable. But it has been attained - ape has been overcome, and thought is now possible. Glad to find it here.

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PostSubject: Re: Resolutions of politics Resolutions of politics Icon_minitimeSat Jun 01, 2019 9:18 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sexual technologies are destined to this, a kind of power we cannot control. If this high degree of tech is a consequence or reinforcer of the massive entropic slide in mentality and culture and I think it is, then the feedback there is crushing. Not much hope to break out of that cycle except at the far end when everything has already been reduced to ash.

Believing men and women can become the opposite gender or have the opposite gender brain, millions of developing human beings murdered by their mothers and doctors in “abortion”, #metoo feeding the hostility and distance between the sexes, the rich getting away with rape and oedophilia and never facing justice, devaluing having children and families and devoted relationships.. it’s all part of the same thing. The entropy. It’s clear by now that not enough humans have the cognitive and emotional clarity and resolve to think into reality.

Stacking it up in my theory of ground-biology -> human-cultural -> Logic-law, we can see this process unfolding at all levels and how the levels affect one another. I don’t see an escape. Will to power isn’t an answer, waiting for people to wake up and think for themselves isn’t an answer. Trying to take over the whole corrupt elitist structure appropriating human life and value to itself isn’t an answer. All possibilities shrink into individual modes of mere survival. Which to me is dumb. So I’ll just keep theorizing and diving into truth to understand it all as it all burns.

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Put a clever word in them! —
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I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Resolutions of politics Resolutions of politics Icon_minitimeSun Jun 02, 2019 12:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed- yes I hope that you’re right. Nature using these things to further work on us. But it would seem to be a different sort of nature. Which leads into the question I wanted to ask here: what role does the existentia play in all of this? In the entropy. I’m quantifying so much of what’s happening as entropy. No more frontier to discharge excess friction, combined with natural slow progression in entropic ideas, combined with deliberate attempts to subvert the world, combined with advanced technology that is used to prop up and speed up the whole process.

Can truth itself, the higher levels of abstraction and ideas, the pure existentia, compensate for and use all of this to some noble end? Where are examples of productive entropy? I can think of one: the human brain. The brain uses entropy in the neurological networks to create a kind of baseline frenzy when the natural entropy in the neurons and networks trying to find their lowest energy state is paired with and set against an opposite tendency and logic for the networks to seek their maximum consistency and efficiency for representing that information which they do represent as structure, and this at the level of the networks pushes down to the individual neurons too.

Entropy used along with its opposite to create a baseline of endless energy, a free energy system almost. A pure positivity of affect or psychic energy which is then delimited more and more into specific forms - words, concepts, instincts etc.

Might we look for something similar in the collapsing world around us? I don’t know.

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Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man... flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Resolutions of politics Resolutions of politics Icon_minitimeToday at 4:16 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Havent been here in some days. Grown out of the habit of tough philosophizing online.

First, thats a beautiful description of the brain.

One could actually begin to design a society with this description.

I wonder if perhaps entropy hasn't been designed to be the norm at the lower strata of society, so as to provide for such a brain like environment. It is clear that much "chemical experimenting" with human conditions has been taking place, especially during the past century.

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PostSubject: Re: Resolutions of politics Resolutions of politics Icon_minitimeToday at 4:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Defenders of the Earth wrote:
Sexual technologies are destined to this, a kind of power we cannot control. If this high degree of tech is a consequence or reinforcer of the massive entropic slide in mentality and culture and I think it is, then the feedback there is crushing. Not much hope to break out of that cycle except at the far end when everything has already been reduced to ash.

I agree that sex-tech isn't likely something we can break out of, it is where "nature" is heading.
Sexual stimulation has been its stimulus throughout much of its development, probably its main cause of risk taking, so absolutely no way we can "reasonably" "step aside from the vehicle" here, hahaha.

No that its all that funny.
But it is in a way.

What Im not so sure about is that it can't be harnessed while it is taking over.
As you may remember Ive often speculated about creating a religion (a ritualistic economy of mass-passion) around it, to control it and harness it, guide it into valuable processes.

Quote :
Believing men and women can become the opposite gender or have the opposite gender brain, millions of developing human beings murdered by their mothers and doctors in “abortion”, #metoo feeding the hostility and distance between the sexes, the rich getting away with rape and oedophilia and never facing justice, devaluing having children and families and devoted relationships.. it’s all part of the same thing. The entropy. It’s clear by now that not enough humans have the cognitive and emotional clarity and resolve to think into reality.

Yeah well these phenomena are all... just, fallout. I have no hope that the elements that have been exposed to entropy to such a degree as to be actively involved in what you mention, will be drawn back into some sensible order. I have to accept that stuff as, indeed, entropy that is just the case and that will absolutely keep taking its toll until, well I think until a hard kernel of truth is exposed by a sudden shift in popular demand. That is something that still will have to be "done", accomplished by philosophers, to make truth humanly accessible, or at least palpable. To this end, such a religion Id conjure would serve.

Can we juxtapose truth and entropy as opposites?

Quote :
Stacking it up in my theory of ground-biology -> human-cultural -> Logic-law, we can see this process unfolding at all levels and how the levels affect one another. I don’t see an escape. Will to power isn’t an answer, waiting for people to wake up and think for themselves isn’t an answer. Trying to take over the whole corrupt elitist structure appropriating human life and value to itself isn’t an answer. All possibilities shrink into individual modes of mere survival. Which to me is dumb. So I’ll just keep theorizing and diving into truth to understand it all as it all burns.

There is nothing to take over at this point. Nothing of value exists in the bureaucratic-ideological structures at all. It is like a compost heap, people like Nancy Pelosi are pretty literally that, compost.
So... what?
Well, like with compost, we wait until the earf begins to swallow it.
I agree, we can't "intervene" in this process.

But philosophy still owns the field for which the final stage of the compost is destined.

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PostSubject: Re: Resolutions of politics Resolutions of politics Icon_minitimeToday at 4:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
And in another perspective, the decaying sexual materials in western humanity are simply forming an opportunity for non-western sexuality to take their place. And this is happening wholesale, has been happening.

Given that Truth is too powerful to attack with sex, this is not really problem even, in the long run. It just means truth is going to be dealing out punishing blows to the newcomers, once they find out that they may have animal prowess to beat the decadent layers of the west, but still need to deal with the unbearable envy before superior Style, which is closely tied to philosophy.

In fact one needs to have a great deal of style to attempt philosophy and no one in these nonwestern places has been attempting it for centuries. So they're fucked, in the soul. They'll never get to the core of things here. We are at that core though, and deep down our society loves us fanatically for it.

This will come to light.

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PostSubject: Re: Resolutions of politics Resolutions of politics Icon_minitimeToday at 4:51 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Imagine a young "educated" and intellectually prideful dude from some prison camp nation like China or Iran coming to the US and running into a Parodites book. Chances are good he wil surmise the triviality of all he will ever accomplish, and kill himself. If he doesn't, he will become a lifelong student.

This is a very real thing that is going to happen; fresh, vital newcomers envy of the ripened western intellect. They don't know it from movies or popular culture, they will run into it if they have the capacity for it. When they do they realize how many lifetimes they are behind. How they can at best hope the cultivate grandchildren capable of such abstraction.

This is not something mediocre westerners will see coming, of course. They are disposable anyway. The real confrontation is between the most vital newcomers and the philosophical pinnacles of our world. This is where power will be transformed.

And indeed, this is no will to power on the part of philosophy. It is like you said, Style is not interested in power, as it already is power.

For behold, all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals

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### Re: The Philosophers

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### Re: The Philosophers

Telling the truth is one thing, convincing someone of a truth is quite another, as we all know.

I always keep in mind these words, though I don't often manage to live up to them: "A truth told so as to be understood will be believed."

Re: The Future of Religions
Postby barbarianhorde » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:45 pm

Del Ivers wrote:
barbarianhorde wrote:
And no there is no great difference between an Egyptian scribe and people here.

So in the example of Egypt, you're saying there was no difference between a scribe in pharaonic times and someone like Naguib Mahfouz who won the 1988 Nobel Prize for Literature?

Not in any positive sense. Thought has just gotten more trivial, less consequential. Not one literary hero of today will be remembered in a hundred years, let alone a thousand. Because they all write about their feelings and the injustices done to them by their mom.

How about in your own case? Are you saying there's no difference between you and one of your ancestors millennia ago?

I dont fancy myself superior to King Solomon or Thales of Milete, lol. No man, we didn't exactly advance. I try to live up to the ancients where I can, but most moderns are like the turning leaves pondering the inferiority of the roots. Trivial.

By the way this is my religion:

http://beforethelight.forumotion.com/t5 ... r-calendar
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/s ... p?t=110629

Re: Biological Will
Unread postby Jakob » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:09 am

Artimas - the difference between natural and unnatural values is as between life and death.

What value-prisoners need is to rebirth their will into their own natures proper values. This is a cathartic and long lasting process, probably related to what the yogis call the kundalini, the fiery snake which, if awakened at the bottom of the spine, begins to burn through all the falsehoods on a slow and painful but more than that liberating process of rebirth through consecutively more exalted value systems, from root to crown.

I think my realization that valuing is the core of things would have been an Anahata type insight. It felt like it. Nearly died before I could jump to the conclusion. Anyway, all or nothing values, this is what triggers us the most, if a value is so hot that we would die in our approach - get rich or die trying is expression of this in a primitive sense, sacrificing oneself in the saviour of ones nation is a higher sort - but this is how we see that will is superior to mere desire or want or need: we relate most to seeing others overcoming their needs and desires and wants in service of something that truly matters - the valuing of which is ones very soul.

Selling ones soul, selling ones will - letting go of the highest values for "realistic" ones.

A funny metaphor occurs to me;

a car and a ravine, and a ramp, and two sets of fuel.
Fuel 1 is ones natural valuing, which might or might not be strong enough to drive the car up the ramp and across the ravine.
Fuel 2 is ones conditioned valuing, which is sure to be weak enough for the car to never even reach the ravine.
Most people run on 2. Its only natural. But Fuel 1 is what drove human accomplishment, and evolution itself.
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### Re: The Philosophers

Re: The meaning of religion, to serve The Future of religion
Postby Jakob » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:57 pm

Dan~ wrote:
Religon is mankinds way of being honest about that.

If that was all religion, I'd sure be happy about it.
But really?

This honesty is what virtually none of the religious know of themselves, but it is still true about 100% of them. That makes it so powerful - they're even ignorant of their own honesty.

Religion is the only way to properly deal with the excess of ignorance we embody.

"God" is, on the deep down emotional system, the premise "I don't know jack but accept what I don't know as awesome"
Thats by far the most powerful attitude for a human to walk around with.

Religious people are always the badasses of the planet. For good or for ill.

As ignorance gets further stripped and religions get down to their cores and brass tacks, wars will become less interesting, as religion for its own sake is entirely absorbing, because it addresses the so-much-more with open arms.

Religion puts valuing of the whole being first, while science puts the specific part that is entirely predictable first.

Science is thus more surgical and will always dominate how things are being done, but religion will keep dominating why things are done. "Because God (aka existence beyond our limited views on it) is Great".

This attitude naturally prevails over the sense that God (idem) is not Great (a depressive, weak position) and the sense that God does not exist - which is, given the given definition of religion, untenable. By his/her/its/their definition, God exists.

Logically then the coming thousands of years will be the refinement of religion until this gaze of wonder, of which also all science is born, is the basic condition of human outlook.
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### Re: The Philosophers

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### Re: The Philosophers

Astrology and philosophers.
Philosophers have oppositions in their charts.
Almost all of them do.
People with oppositions in their chart are people who can't escape the contradictive nature of "self". They need to be aware, are constantly being made aware, of life being not a straightforward thing but more a game of checks and balances. This puts them at the centre of things, because people without this constant awareness, which slows everything down, can't escape the gravity of the people with it.
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### Re: The Philosophers

I haven't eaten magic mushrooms for a few years. The last time I ate them I made some music, which started a whole avalanche of music making. This was two years ago.
Before that, the last time I ate them must have been in 2012. A quite dreadfully bland experience that was. I had just arrived back in Amsterdam after breaking up with my Viennese girl in whose realm I created my philosophy out of pure life.
The mushrooms just showed me how pointless everything is except the one thing.
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### Re: The Philosophers

LSD - Ive taken that twice.
The second time was fucking brilliant.
I was on a busride through a snowy night to a New Years party. It was a school bus hired for the purpose. Behind me two dudes were discussing various party experiences and at one point one of them said "I have some acid left, anyone wants a hit?"
I turned around, said em sure. And he gave it to me. I hadn't had time to catch dinner because of the bus schedule and me not being able to find the stop at first, so I was a bit worried about that. But out of the blue another guy called saying "I have an extra tuna sandwich, anyone interested?" Absurdly perfect.
I took the drug and danced until it hit me and then went outside and made a philosophic video in the snow, about the end of evolution and the beginning of reverse-evolution, which I saw crystal-clear then.
Reverse-Evolution not as devolution, but as evolution using the other kind of pull. Not towards greater complexity but to greater simplicity.
Then I returned to the party and we had a several hour long tribal dance. Then, a pretty girl put her hands on my chest and another adventure began. We even made snow angels in the morning.
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### Re: The Philosophers

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### Re: The Philosophers

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### Re: The Philosophers

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