2 months--no drugs or alcohol

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

Moderator: MagsJ

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:01 am

Hello ILP club, did you miss me? Well, I didn't miss you.

I have a lot to report, but not today. Got no time, and don't have the energy. But today is March 1 and just wanted to say I did it (again). Will have more to say on Saturday.

Peace motherfuckers. :obscene-birdiedoublered: :banana-fingers:
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
User avatar
gib
resident exorcist
 
Posts: 8729
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: in your mom

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby MagsJ » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:41 pm

:lol:

Look forward to it; )
Image
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist
 
Posts: 17505
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: London, NC1

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:34 am

MagsJ wrote::lol:

Look forward to it; )


I can always count on you, MagsJ. ;)
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
User avatar
gib
resident exorcist
 
Posts: 8729
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: in your mom

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:11 am

Hello ILP scum bags, what's up?

I suppose you wanna hear about the results of my two month stint of only alcohol. No? Too bad! Here it is! :evilfun:

As usual, the lack of caffeine forced my body to pick up the slack a bit in terms of energy and alertness and I was able to get more work done without needing a nap. However, I still needed naps. The body will NEVER reach the equivalent of three cups of coffee in terms of energy and alertness all on its own. So though the improvement in energy and alertness was noticeable (as usual) it by no means got rid of my need for at least an hour nap in the middle of the afternoons.

I suppose part of the need for sleep might have to do with the booze--they do after all make you sleepy--but I'm not talking about days when I had been heavily drinking the night before. Then again, I've developed a bad habit of going out a couple nights a week to the local Moxie's or Milestones across the street and having a couple glasses of wine and a shot of tequila. By no means did I get drunk or wake up with a hangover the next morning, but this means I can't totally rule out the influence of alcohol on my energy and alertness levels. I do know that there were days when I hadn't had a drop of alcohol the night before, and I'd had a good night sleep, yet I was still tired.

Then there's the usual Fridays... Moxie's downtown before I go home. I used to do this only every second Friday, but that was back when I had a full work day on Fridays. Full work days when it's my weekend with the kids means no drinks after work on those Fridays. But since the beginning on 2016, I've been working at a place at which we get Friday afternoons off. So end of work Fridays means drinks at Moxie's downtown at noon, then go home and be ready for the kids after they get out of school. At first, I kept the schedule of Friday drinks only on every second Friday (my weekends without the kids), but now it's every Friday... not good for my wallet.

Then there's the usual getting drunk on Fridays (weekend without my kids) or Saturdays (weekend with my kids) which continued even without the caffeine (I'd make Saturdays my caffeine days on weekends with the kids since it's fun having the energy to engage with my kids... which of course, being the conditional alcoholic that I am, conditional on caffeine, would make Saturdays on weekends with the kids my getting drunk days... after the kids went to bed of course).

It didn't used to be the case that I'd go out twice a week. It used to be that I'd go out only once a week, if that. Again, not good for my wallet. In fact, during the first few weeks of January, I really didn't have the urge to drink at all. Moreover, I can honestly say that in the past couple months, I haven't had the urge to buy booze at the liquor store. I mean, I'd be lying if I said it never happened, but it's certainly became way less (like maybe twice in the past two months). So while Moxie's/Milestones (and sometimes Jameson's or Joey's) has gone up, liquor stores have gone down (unfortunately it's the more expensive venue that's gone up).

Alcoholism seems to be a funny thing... it always seems to be conditional (at least in my case). I know caffeine fuels my alcoholism but I'm also finding that my desire to go out to Moxie's/Milestones more often is fueled more by the good looking girls who work there. I love to flirt with them. I just don't get that from a mickey of Jack Daniels. So my alcoholism seems to bootstrap itself onto my longing for love. I wish I could say that I'm completely not an alcoholic without the caffeine or the pretty girls at the local pubs but I've learned through these two month stints that if you allow yourself to partake of the booze even without these catalysts, your alcoholism (if you have it) can become unconditional.

All in all, though, I'm not worried. I know that by July 1 this year, I won't have to worry about any of that. It will force me to become more responsible financially and also health-wise.

On a lighter note, there have been some positives. On a few occasions, drunk at the bar, I've found that I can be just as social without the caffeine as I can with. Caffeine makes me talkative, makes me extroverted, makes my brain more responsive in real time. But on a few occasions, I've found that all it takes is a bit of lowering of inhibitions (thanks to the booze) for me to get into that state and have intense stimulating discussions with the local drunkards. However, I think there's still a difference. Someone once told me that caffeine is like a block you put behind the break peddle of your car... no matter how much you need to stop, you just can't. I found that without the caffeine (and with the booze) I can step on the gas no problem, but I can also run out of steam real quickly. So whereas I can strike up a conversation and have witty things to say to people, I also slow down sometimes and have trouble thinking of appropriate responses or keeping on top of the conversation. IOW, the ability is there, I just can't sustain it for as long. But knowing that the only thing holding me back is inhibitions is a comforting thought; it means it's within my control and can be remedied by a bit of conditioning.

(This makes sense based on what they say of introverts... socializing drains us a lot more quickly than it does extroverts; but caffeine makes me extroverted; I also wonder for some extroverts... does socializing sometimes fuel their energy, exciting them as it were such as to feel like socializing even more?)

And the cannabinoids? Not much to report there. I guess there's this: I feel spiritually dead inside without the psychedelics... like there's a big fat nothing inside, and what's left of me is an automaton, a mindless drone carrying on with his daily obligations, getting done what needs to be done, working through the daily grind... but no real life inside, no spark. In fact, it's set in a bit of depression. I think this is hugely fueled by July 1 fast approaching. I'm asking myself: is this what it's going to be like? A desert--just the dull grind of tired life, the banalities of the meaningless ordinary? The alcohol and the flirting alleviates this painless pain on the occasions when I go out, but even that I'm going to have to give up come July 1.

I have a bit of a delusion. I sometimes believe in a demon who accompanies me. During the past two months, that delusion just didn't arise. When I do the psychedelics, that delusions comes alive. But more on this below.

Let's see the chart so far:

Image

This month was a big neutral... not really feeling any better than I usually do but not worse either. The only change was, predictably, life was more steady (and monotonous) than the ups and downs of my usual life of drugs and caffeine. The idea, therefore, is supposed to be that this is what life is like with only alcohol. You might compare this with the last stint I did in the summer of 2017 when I did only the cannabinoids. Those two months features at least a few days when I felt above average (in terms of energy and good feeling). You might draw the conclusion, therefore, that an alcohol only drug diet cause neutrality, dullness, whereas a cannabinoid only drug diet allows for the occasional above-average day. But common sense tells me there is no real link between the variables. If I could have said, after the two month stint in 2017, that I felt good and full of energy 90% of the time, that would be something else. It would be more reasonable to infer a correlation... but only three days out of the whole two months? Nothing can be gleaned from that.

(I also have to say that I was trying out the Atkins diet during the past 2 months, and that *could* be a confounding variable, but I doubt it... and yes, I understand the irony of consuming alcohol at my usual rate while on a diet that prohibits fast burning energy, but that's a complicated (and irrelevant) matter.)

So anyway, we're now in a position not only to draw some conclusions about what life is like on an alcohol only diet but on what I should do with my life now that all the results are in. And I don't think there's any question about it. I've already made my decision. I'm going to take at least a year off all drugs and alcohol, maybe two, and then make a final decision on what to do with the rest of my life. These past 5 years have worked out perfectly. It started out as an experiment; I wanted to determine for myself, with hands on experience, whether life is really better without the drugs than with. The irony is that, if you look back at the results, life is only slightly better. Not overwhelming. Yet slightly better is still better, so logically I should take it. Yet psychologically, I'm disappointed in the results. Slightly better sounds pitiful to me. And strictly speaking, I should really only be looking at the results of the first two stints since those were the only ones that did away with all drugs and alcohol. All the others were the results of specific combinations and I should be interpreting them as what life is like on those particular drugs only. Yet having gone through these experiences, I really feel that life is far too complicated, far too rife with confounding variables, to draw any kind of connection. The results of the spring of 2014, for example, were the most positive, but do I have a right to say that if I cut alcohol out of my life but stuck with the caffeine and cannabinoids, my life would be great? Probably not. Probably, these results are the consequence of unenumerable variables (and most likely a hell of a lot of bias and subjective interpretation). So what was the point? The point was to arrive at something like the decision I'm making now, and that happened.

This needs elaboration. There's a psychological game that one can play on one's self; I call it the migration of value. It's based on the natural psychological phenomenon whereby one's values "migrate" from one thing to another. One has attachments. One values those attachments. But sometimes attachments get compromised. One values one's car, for example. One is therefore attached to it. But if that car breaks down and becomes unusable, then one's attachment to it is compromised. One feels the pain of the loss. But then one can compensate for that by buying a new car. The new car is bought and one no longer feels the pain (except perhaps in one's wallet). Once again, one feels secure knowing that one has a reliable mode of transportation, of getting from point A to point B, of being able to get things done and make ends meet, etc. In other words, one restores the security of one's values by "migrating" those values from one attachment to another, from a compromised car to a new car.

We see the migration of value with abstract attachment as well. One values winning the argument. But if one finds that he or she cannot match the arguments of one's contender, then one's attachment to winning the argument is compromised. But what does one usually say? Maybe something like "Ok, you win, but you didn't have to be so rude," or perhaps "fair enough, but I still think I'm right on point A, B, and C." In other words, one's values migrate from winning the argument to getting an apology from one's contender for being so rude, or to a concession on points A, B, and C.

Attachments to drugs and alcohol are no exception, except that since they are always readily available and easy to consume, they don't typically get compromised. Instead, they are unhealthy attachments that one may admit to without being forced to find alternatives for. For this reason, one must not wait for something to occur which forces one to migrate his or her values (for example, what if alcohol suddenly became illegal), one must proactively invoke the migration of value upon one's self. (This is typical of coming to an understanding of a phenomenon; when we understand a natural phenomenon, like electricity, we tend to proactively make it into technology, like electronics; understanding the natural phenomenon of the migration of value means that one can proactively use it on one's self to effect change, to effect, that is to say, the migration away from unhealthy attachment to more healthy ones).

Here's the formula for migrating away from unhealthy attachments to more healthy ones: for any undesired value attachment A, and any desired value attachment C, find a value attachment B that is compatible with both. Migrate as much value as you can away from A and to B. Once all or most of your attachment has been migrated, repeat the migration away from B and to C. This may be done for any number of migrations--for example, from A to B to C to D to E, etc. The principle upon which this works is that migrations from one value to another are much easier when those values are compatible, or when you value both, than when they are not.

Let's take attitudes as an example. Supposed you had a bad habit of nursing a negative attitude towards everything, but you also knew that this was unhealthy and you should really practice being more positive. You know this from seeing the effects in others who are more positive, how they are happier, how they seem to lead healthier lives, how people just like being around them more, but you just feel stupid being positive yourself, you feel like a dork, like you're just lying to yourself. So you're blocked; you want to go from here to there but the two seem utterly incompatible. You can't just make a switch over night. What does the formula for the migration of value prescribe? It prescribes that you find a middle attitude, one that is compatible with both your negative attitude and the positive one you hope to acquire. How 'bout realism? It seems to be a general trend among pessimists and others with negative attitudes that they prefer to be called "realists" rather than pessimists. So be it. You're a realist. But that means you value realism. That means that realism, for you, is compatible with pessimism. It also so happens to be compatible with optimism. And why not? To be realistic is to be okay with admitting that sometimes positive outcomes happen, that the world isn't always bad. Or at least that if a positive outcome occurs, admitting that it's positive is still to be realistic. What you do then is put some mental effort into focusing on realism rather than pessimism. The principle here is that since you already value realism, this should be far easier and smoother a transition than that from pessimism to optimism. So you make the migration. With practice and commitment, thinking with a realist attitude eventually becomes second nature, conditioned as it were, and then you are ready to make the move from realism to optimism. You repeat the process: you put mental effort into focusing on optimism rather than realism. Your prior pessimism no longer gets in the way because you've already migrated away from it and essentially detached yourself from it, drained it of any power to keep you in its grips. That's how it's done.

In my case, drugs are the unhealthy attachment, sobriety is the healthy one, and these 2 month stints over the past 5 years are the middle one that's compatible with both. In the beginning, I was a proponent of drugs. I believed in one's right to explore alternate states of consciousness. It was a form of spirituality for me, and still is. For me, doing drugs to explore foreign experiences was like a scientist conducting experiments or like a Christian going to church. It is their right according to their beliefs. And I still believe this (that's the beauty of the migration of values; values don't always have to be compromised). It was therefore difficult for me to come to grips with the adverse effects of drugs, the possibility that they were doing more harm to me than good. It was the fact that I had to admit to myself that, at some point along the way, I wasn't really doing them to explore alternate states of consciousness anymore, but just for a buzz on a boring Friday night. This, now that I think about it, was the first step in migrating away from the drugs. That I was hooked to the buzz didn't have to count as a compromise of my values. It was compatible. Yet, it wasn't enough to decide right then and there to quit. For that, I needed real hands on experiences with sobriety. I value real experiences. I thought, therefore, that if I can prove to myself that life is indeed better without the drugs than with, I would be OK with giving them up. That's when the next step in the migration stood before me. But what this means is that neither these experiments nor the results were ever the ultimate goal; they were only a means to a goal: valuing sobriety. This is why it doesn't matter how disappointed I am in the results--I now want sobriety--I want it regardless of the results. It took five long years to get here, five long years to convince myself to be OK with giving up the drugs, convincing myself through a psychological trick, but it worked. Not: it's going to work, it did work. I am now looking forward to July 1 2018, proud to say I'm going to be drug free.

Yet I'm depressed, right? I did say above, didn't I, that I look forward to it with a heavy heart? That the prospect of walking through a desert of spiritual death is something I dread? Yes I did say this, but this is not because my values are compromised. It's just the hard work that I know is in store for me. The problem with addiction is that we are animals. Animals seek immediate gratification--hedonism--and act in accordance with their impulses and their environmental conditioning. So even while I value sobriety, I know I will miss the rush and the euphoria of the drugs, and I know I will have to endure deprivation and depression. I need this momentum, this conviction to my new values, in order to make it through. I am human; I am an animal but I am human. I have an animal self but also a higher self unique to my humanity. The higher self of human beings is the part of us which strives for higher things, which reaches beyond immediate gratification, which can effect its will against impulse and environmental conditioning. My higher self has placed his values at odds with his visceral desires and cravings so as to overcome them. It shouldn't be a surprise that this will hurt, that even now I am depressed. That's what it takes, after all. The point is this: five years ago, if I had looked across this desert, straight to the horizon, I would have said: no way, man. Now I am not saying this.

Yet it's not quite the same as a commitment to give up drugs and alcohol all together, is it? I've been saying, "at least a year, probably two." <-- Is that a commitment to quit drugs and alcohol? Or just an extended 2 month stint? What I've done here is give myself one more intermediate step in the migration of my values. The results of these 2 month stints have not only been disappointing, but they have been based on things I don't even feel (hedonistically, at least). For example, much of what goes into saying that the results of this or that stint are positive are things like: I save money (alcohol is hella expensive), I will be a better roll model for my children, I will get more work done, be more focused on my career. These aren't "feel good" benefits. They're more like "be good" benefits... things I have to remind myself of because I don't just feel it like a immediate buzz. What this means is that the animal side of myself, which only knows immediate gratification, that is feeling good, dreads the prospect of walking through the desert of self-deprivation and spiritual meaningless even though I know it will make me a better person. Because of this, I, at a certain point in my journey, had to decide on a compromise: rather than making that fatal decision to give up all drugs and alcohol, do one more extremely long stint. Yet his is more than just another stint in my mind; it is an opportunity to find real substitutes for the drugs. I don't think one can find substitutes for drugs in only two months. One needs at least a year. My hope is that through all the things I intend to try, something will give me that hands on experience that I desperately want, the hands on experience which is more than "slightly positive", which is a real contender to the euphoria of the drugs.

What are the things I intend to do with my year, probably two, away from drugs and alcohol? How do I intend to replace them?

1) Therapy

2) Take a Dale Carnegie course

3) Get a tattoo

4) Take acting classes

5) Talk to WendyDarling about astral projections

6) Talk to my good friend Rita about other forms of spirituality

7) Get exorcised

Let's go through these one by one, shall we?

1) Therapy: I'm going to walk into the doctor's office and say: help me be awesome. There are other ways of saying this:
- Help me become extroverted, not introverted.
- Help me become fit to run a business.
- Help me to influence people rather than be influenced.
- Help me to become more energetic.
All things which the drugs helped me do--at least the caffeine and alcohol--but I want to learn how to do this without a crutch. I'm hoping a therapist can help. I intend to take the attitude that there's nothing wrong with me--and indeed I think I will be able to say that with full confidence and conviction on July 1--but that I want to become better anyway (to be fucking awesome!). I want to be better than OK. The drugs made me feel like a super star, like a god. I want to be able to churn that out with the power of my own mind.

2) Take a Dale Carnegie course: I took the Dale Carnegie course when I was 14 (my dad thought it would help given the problems I was having at school). I was too young at the time to realize how I was supposed to apply the lessons they taught me, but I'm 41 now and very capable of applying these principles. Back then, I sort of expected things to happen automatically, as though the Dale Carnegie coaches were gonna make me more sociable, that I just had to let them do the work. Now I see it like a tool. Like therapy, I mean to use it with intent--that is, like a tool which does nothing by itself, I intend to use it proactively, to purposefully apply the lessons they teach to actual life.

3) Get a tattoo: This one here:

Image

This is a drawing a made a while back. I call it "Transition"--perfect for what I'm going through. I intend to get this branded on my upper back as a symbol of my salvation, of being set free from my demon. <-- That's a whole other story which I won't get into, but suffice it to say, the drugs definitely keep my demon alive, like feeding a leach with what you consume for yourself. Starve yourself and you starve the leach. Yet my hope is that Gaseous (that's his name) is also set free by this act. I will consider the act of tattooing myself a kind of self-induced exorcism. My hope is that he will stand trial before God and he will be judged on the good acts he has performed in teaching me his wisdom the last 20 years, that his parole will have proven worthwhile, and that he will be forgiven--an exorcism for us both, so to speak--and that, now with freedom, he will chose to revisit me, and maybe because of that, continue to fuel me with the magic he has so far imparted to me. <-- That would be another way to replace the drugs.

On a more practical note (to come back down to Earth :lol: ), the tattoo will symbolize my commitment to abstain from drugs and alcohol, not only out of a desire to express myself with body art, but as another psychological trick. I mean, if you really want to stick to a commitment, what better way than to permanently brand yourself? It's the equivalent of tattooing onto your forehead: "I promise never to do drugs again." <-- You can't just go back on that.

(As an aside, I also think I deserve it. I've always been reluctant to the idea of getting a tattoo because, well, that's for tough guys, or maybe cool guys who ride motorbikes; but I had an epiphany: why do you care if you're a touch guy or not? Why not get a tattoo because you earned it? Why not because you did something that is worth a tattoo, something like giving up drugs and alcohol?)

4) Take acting classes: Now this one's a rather new ambition. I thought to myself one day: how are you going to be confident enough to socialize with people and to flirt with girls without your liquid courage? Well, why not just pretend to be a guy who's confident enough to socialize and flirt with girls? Play a roll, act a part. If you feel like it's lying, then be okay with lying. I even thought this: if you want a substitute for drugs, see how far you can get with acting like you're on drugs. I could go to the bar stone cold sober and just walk around talking to people like a stumbling drunk. If you had the acting skills, you could probably pull this off. Then you could socialize and talk to girls just like you did in the good old days... huh? Am I right? Huh?

And with any luck, the placebo effect might come into play... actually making you feel drunk (or high, or stoned, or whatever).

And this could be used in all sort of life's facets... being a good salesman for example. If you don't think you're smooth enough, or influential enough, or persuasive enough... try acting like someone who is... see how far you get.

5) Talk to WendyDarling about astral projections: this speaks for itself I think. Astral projections would be the perfect substitute for drugs, and WendyDarling can attest to their reality. She's had them before and *might* be able to instruct me on how to induce one for myself. No pressure Wendy, but I'm coming for you after July 1 :D . We've talked about this before and she knows I'm eager to learn from her once I get off the drugs. And spiritual experiences in general would be an incredibly fitting substitute for the drugs--doesn't have to be astral projections--I mean, if you had the ability to astral project, or talk to spirits, or gain a psychic ability, or to perform magic... wouldn't you give up an addiction to have it?

And what if this is just a bunch of nonsense, mumbo-jumbo, new aged bull shit? What if it is? I'd still be willing to settle just for the experience thereof. I mean, suppose that the experience of astral projection wasn't really your soul leaving your body and blasting through the cosmos FTL, what if it was just a psychedelic experience, a hallucination, an alternate state of consciousness that was happening only in my brain?... well gee, how could that possibly count as a substitute for drugs? And what if there is no such experience? What if, after a year or more of trying, I can't astral project any more than I can now? Well, hopefully, given that year or more, I will have bought enough time to experience the benefits of sobriety, enough so that I will still be able to say it's worth staying sober. IOW, maybe the migration of value can still happen--migrating away from a compromised value (astral projection) and towards an uncompromised value (the benefits of being sober for a year or more).

6) Talk to my good friend Rita about other forms of spirituality: Now Rita isn't her real name; to protect her identity, I will not reveal her real name. But she knows a lot about spirituality; she's much like Wendy in my eyes. So essentially, she might be able to serve the same purpose that Wendy might. The power of two spiritualist is better than one. And I can actually meet up with Rita whereas my contact with Wendy is limited to PMs.

7) Get exorcised: speaks for itself... I think I need an exorcism. Hoping Wendy can help, maybe Rita too. If not, maybe they can recommend someone. If not, hoping the tattoo will do the trick. If not, oh well, it's a delusion anyway.

These are the things I hope to accomplish on my year, probably more, off the drugs and the alcohol. These are the things which I hope will help me find a substitute for the drugs and therefore help me fully accept a completely sober life. Now why do I always say: a year, maybe more? Well, the formal decision to migrate from the compromised 2 month stints to the full year was one according to which I thought 1 full year was a good round figure, a reasonable amount of time to accomplish the things set out above. However, for me this is about more than quitting the drugs; it's about detachment from unhealthy values. What this means is that there's more than just the drugs I wish to detach myself from. Actually, there's one other thing: my book. If you click on the link "My Thoughts" in my sig, you will be taken to my website where I am trying (without much success) to sell my book The Nuts and Bolts of Consciousness. <-- This is an unhealthy attachment. Why? You might ask. How can writing a book, or selling one, be an unhealthy attachment? Well, I don't think it's unhealthy in general, but this one in particular is for me. I've been obsessed with my theory of consciousness since, oh, shortly after I got hooked on drugs. The unhealthy aspect of it is that it distracts me from the more important things in my life--my career, my children, girls--it eats up my time with little return. I'm way better off spending my creative energies elsewhere. Yet, like the drugs, I can't just "give it up"--not over night--but what I can do is finish it--volumes II and III that is--upload them to my site, maybe make some kendle copies, and then let it go. But there's no way this will ever be done before July 1. I'm thinking I need at least a year after July 1 2018 to get all that done. What this means is that the real period of detachment from unhealthy values will begin only after I am done with my books, and it is then when I plan to spend a full year being free from unhealthy attachments. So it's definitely going to be at least a year of complete sobriety, but most likely more.

It's weird though... though I intend to spend at least a year free from unhealthy attachments, this most likely will not be like the Buddhist monk who frees himself from worldly attachments, he who spends his time in quiet solitude, cultivating a tranquil mind and a stress-free life. No, no, no, quite the opposite for me. I intend to spend my time away from drugs and alcohol, away from obsessing over my book, building up my business. I have a software business that dormant at the moment and I intend to pick it up again sometime in 2018, and hopefully over the course of the next 2 years or so, make it into a small business. Retreating to a Buddhist monistary, or spending your days meditating in silence for hours, is not how that's done. I plan to be busy, busy, busy--probably quite stress out--and I can't afford to let drugs and alcohol, or attachments to deadly money pits, hold me back. Detaching myself from these unhealthy attachments will put me in the best position possible to accomplish my career goals. And yet, the Buddhist aspiration of attaining inner peace through lack of attachments is still one of my fundamental goals. How can this be so? Wouldn't the stress of being bogged down with overwhelming work and the stress of keeping a fledgeling business afloat do precisely the opposite for me? Maybe to the animal self within me, but not the higher self. Stress is certainly something an animal can feel, but it's the art of managing one's attachment which is key. <-- That's something only the higher self can weild. It's like this: attachments are not just addictions forged by hedonistic forces, they are commitments--or rather, excuses--they are the self refusing to give them up. The key is to not commit. I will persue my ambitions to start a small business, but I promise myself never to say: I can't give this up. I will always allow myself the option of migrating my values to something which, if deemed more healthy or a better, more reasonable option, keeps me getting stuck to that which is not good for me. In other words, it's really a very simple trick: just don't ever commit. I can persue a career as the owner of a small software company, working the long hours, working through the stress, but as long as I don't lock myself in psychologically, I think I can preserve that freedom of mind which is the staple of the Buddhist way of life. The key is this: always, always, always allow yourself an out. <-- Preserve that as one of your highest values.

That being said, however, I'm ultimately driven by something I absolutely will not detach myself from: my daughter. The whole reason I want to start a small business is so that I can make the kind of income required to support my daughter. My goal is to gain custody of her, at least shared custody with my X, but that requires money. And when it comes down to it, I'd prefer to have custody of both my children--my daughter and her younger brother--but I know my son is better off with his mother (he's a mama's boy :D). My daughter, every time I ask her, says she'd prefer to live with me. And so I'm determined to make that happen, but I need the money. There are healthy attachments, and there are unhealthy attachments, and then there are attachments which I simply will not let go of. The Buddhist monk who retreats to a monistary in order to detach himself of the fleshly desires of the material world isn't morally obligated to do so. Buddhism isn't a moral religion. It promises a path towards peace and ultimately enlightment. But it does not say: though shalt. It says only: it's there if you want it, and this is the way. What this means, however, is that a descrepancy can be drawn between what one can do to achieve the ultimate Buddhist goal and what one ought to do. The choices that the Buddhist monk makes are not always moral. To truly detach himself from all worldy pleasures and attachments, to seclude himself from the world, he must give up his attachment to his family and loved ones. If he has a family--a wife, a child--he must abandon them. And I ask myself: is that right? I mean, sure, if he detaches himself from the bonds of family, he may be free of any hardship or worry that such attachments sometimes cause, but has he done his family right? Has he done what's moral? I don't think so. This is why, out of all the attachments which are holding me back from being truly free, I will not give up my attachment to my daughter. It just wouldn't be right. And this, in turn, drives me on to achieve building a small business and financial enhancement. But I still believe in allowing myself to detach myself from that goal, that value, if one day it seems practically sound to do so--it's just that it cannot compromise my attachment to my daughter. If, for example, rather than achieve success as the owner of a small business, I won the lottery... well that would certain suffice to support gaining custody of my daughter, and so long as I haven't formed an attachment to my business for it's own sake (committing to it for its own inherent value, in other words, which is what addictions or based on), then I should be able to let it go for the sake of a higher goal, that being gaining custody of my daughter.

But in any case, building a small business would certainly count as yet another reason to stay off the drugs and alcohol. I think if I achieve that, not only will it mean I absolutely cannot return to being a druggie (I think that would spell absolute disaster for the owner of a business), but it might even fulfill me in just the right way that drugs did.

I'm not there yet, however, and all this is highly uncertain. I don't have a crystal ball. I have no idea what the future holds for me. This is why I'm still treating this like an experiment. As a formality, I am telling myself: at least a year, probably two, and I reserve the right, after that time, to choose to go back into the drugs. If the results of this experiment prove that life just isn't the same without the drugs and alcohol--one or probably two years worth of sobriety, which is more than ample--then I'd be an idiot to have locked myself into a commitment of this sort, a commitment to stewing in misery. I have yet to really acquire the experience of being happy, of being fulfilled, without the crutchs of drugs and alcohol, and at this point, it remains uncertain whether any of the forgoing is possible, let alone affective. Therefore, I'm thinking of this year, probably two, as much like the American Constitution--to be respected as a set of laws that government and citizens alike are obliged to observe, but also open ended and subject to amendment--life is too precarious and uncertain to lock something like this down permanently; it must be allowed to change if necessary. I think it will be enough, however, to achieve the main goal. That being said, I'm pretty sure that come July 1, I'll be done with alcohol and caffeine forever. I've come to grips with the fact that these are no good for me. The cannabinoids and other drugs, however, I *might* consider going back on them after the fully year, probably more, is up. I know the trick to avoiding addictions now, so I'm not worried that I will fall back into addiction. And quite frankly, I still believe in one's right to explore alternate states of consciousness--it's just that this time around, I will have to explore new drugs that are, well, new. If the drug is tried again, and again, and again... well, chances are I've grown to enjoy the buzz rather than exploring the novelty of an altered state of consciousness. I'll have to figure out a way to deal with the tattoo and what it represents, but I already know the answer to that: it represents my self-induced exorcism, and unless I fall back into addiction, I think the spirit of it will remain true. <-- But therein lies the dangers of self-deception... this is why I really have to see what can be made of life without the drugs and alcohol, and prove to myself that after a year, probably more, of feeling truly happy and fulfilled, of feeling that this is better than anything I could have imagined, I'd have to be utterly stupid to risk losing it all by returning to the drugs, my right to explore or otherwise be damned.

To wrap this up, then, I would like to say this: one thing I've noticed is that whenever these two month stints involve abstaining from caffeine, I have absolutely no desire to come here to ILP. Caffeine makes me chatty, it makes me want to talk, to write, to socialize. Coming to ILP is what I like to do when I'm caffeinated. Actually, that's not quite true. I also come here at least once a day to either: 1) check if there are any responses to the things I wrote, or 2) working no my projects (Which at the moment only consist of my Rick and Morty thread). But chances are, after July 1, you won't be seeing much more of me. I'll still be here, hanging around, but it will probably be rare that I ever participate in discussions. I'll be more like ghost. It will be as if I wasn't even here. For this reason, I feel like being an ass. I think I'll spend the next 4 months being an asshole to each and every one of you here at ILP. I don't much like you guys anyway. There's only a small smattering of people who I like here (I'll PM you guys after July 1 to let you know). But for the rest of y'all, you guys are scum bags... the scum of ILP. You guys are frickin'... well... I won't get into that. :D
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
User avatar
gib
resident exorcist
 
Posts: 8729
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: in your mom

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby MagsJ » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:58 pm

gib wrote:
MagsJ wrote: :lol:

Look forward to it; )


I can always count on you, MagsJ. ;)

..coz I ain't the fickle kind, Gib.. flaky, but never fickle. ;)

I'll have a read of your findings later and get back to you.. there's a lot to read. :)
Image
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist
 
Posts: 17505
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: London, NC1

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:42 pm

You may not like what I am saying here but you have been doing this now for five years, gib. Why not just go to AA meetings to get help and get some serious therapy? It does work. But you have to do the work. You may not think that it does but what you have been doing - does that work? Has that made you clean and sober?
I do not get this journey into nowhere which you are on here. You just go around in circles playing games with your life and your health.

You have had five years of doing the same thing, over and over again!!!!

You may already have written a very interesting book by now and had it published. But you choose to spend your energy in this way.
Perhaps I am the only one in here who does not, but I find nothing interesting about what you are writing.

...and real love struggles and works hard and transcends and sacrifices. Everything else is just sentimentality...or gross self- love.
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15278
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:21 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:You may not like what I am saying here but you have been doing this now for five years, gib. Why not just go to AA meetings to get help and get some serious therapy? It does work. But you have to do the work. You may not think that it does but what you have been doing - does that work? Has that made you clean and sober?
I do not get this journey into nowhere which you are on here. You just go around in circles playing games with your life and your health.

You have had five years of doing the same thing, over and over again!!!!

You may already have written a very interesting book by now and had it published. But you choose to spend your energy in this way.
Perhaps I am the only one in here who does not, but I find nothing interesting about what you are writing.

...and real love struggles and works hard and transcends and sacrifices. Everything else is just sentimentality...or gross self- love.


Arc, do you know what the relapse rate is for those who go to rehab centers and attend AA meetings? 90%. You know why? Because at the end of the day, they can't really say they did it themselves. Someone intervened. I won't have that problem.

The answers to your questions are in my post. If you think these past five years have just been repeated attempts at the same thing, you're gravely mistaken. I have a strange suspicion you only skimmed through what I wrote.

And I think you misspoke: I think you do find it interesting, you're just appalled at it.

I can't wait to see the look on your face when I tell you after July 1 that I'm 100% clean and sober. <-- Thanks for the extra bit of motivation.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
User avatar
gib
resident exorcist
 
Posts: 8729
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: in your mom

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Meno_ » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:04 am

I have had the pleasure of talking with You off and on, and honestly my recollection fails me as to what we were discussing.

But I sympathise and it is because I agree with what You're saying, especially because I have gone through it, and if I may offer some correlative story with what I have gone through. Its quite similar really.

Back about 15 years ago, many things happened to upset the my applecart my mother , best friend, my mother in law, followed by my son all passed.
Then I got back on the alcohol and went to work and they smelled it on my breath. The management gave me an ultimatum, either go to rehab. or, go look for another another job.

For me , an obsessive person, this became a nightmare, I was torn because I was totally addicted, and decided to go.
It was a win win experience and I haven't been 100 per cent clean.

I'm glad because without a few my creative life would drive up in a minute. What I got out of the six months, was that I cut down to managed levels without adding the added dissappointment of having to deal with another guilt to my already rather hefty collection, of lacking willpower. Other fuolts I kicked in the behind are a little personal to write about about, but they seal with philanderinf and insincerity.
I've become more open, less afraid of what others think. and that is giving me much more serenity.I've come to realize, that is have to start to forgive myself more, because in a large part drinking helps to alley guilt, even the guilt and shame attached to diminished lack of social skills.
So when drinking out of lack of social skilla becomes becomes another guilt to worry about, it doesn't take a rocket rocket scientist to begin to see where this is heading


So what I did was not to -continue later my wife needs some help-

Back- but only for a second because she wants me to take her out for dinner, so I will leave this unfinished for now, .
Hopefully be back afterwards , but a parting shot, I read)u do want to get to know You better so that we can talk about it.

So of You are open to it, I would like to engage Your interest in pursuing it, and don't worry, when I am in a hurry, my writing is full of errors, but will go back and try also to edit it
Meno_
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3576
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:24 pm

gib,

Arc, do you know what the relapse rate is for those who go to rehab centers and attend AA meetings? 90%.


So the above is to be your explanation for the last five years, gib?
If those statistics ARE real, so what?! Many fail then they pick their selves up and begin again. It all depends on just how serious and determined they are to turn their lives around, to get off all of that poison, and how much they value their selves and their loved ones.


You know why? Because at the end of the day, they can't really say they did it themselves. Someone intervened. I won't have that problem.


I am not grasping what you are saying here. Did *what* themselves? Have a relapse or manage to stay sober?
No one gets sober and stays sober by themselves. They need a lot of help and support.
Many who have a relapse always manage to blame it on others even though it can expected that there can be a relapse.



And I think you misspoke: I think you do find it interesting, you're just appalled at it.


Appalled may be too strong a word here, gib and I do not really find it interesting. What I question though is how you can make of yourself a guinea pig. Do you ever wonder looking back on the last five years where you might be right now if you had done things differently?
Have you looked ahead a year or two or three, et cetera, and wonder where you might be then if you continue down the same road ........or if you take, let's say, the road less traveled for you?


I can't wait to see the look on your face when I tell you after July 1 that I'm 100% clean and sober.


But this is the question. Will I even believe you based on the last five years? But it really is not necessary if I believe you. What is important is you knowing that you did it.
But then where do you go from there?
There is a reason why people say "One Day at a Time". Sometimes it is "One Hour at a Time".


<-- Thanks for the extra bit of motivation.


You are quite welcome, gib.
I have a lot of experience with alcoholism as I am the adult child of an alcoholic. Trust me when I say this, I know their ins and outs, I know their laziness and their ways of denial. I know their self-pity which is capable of sending their children into the depths of the abyss. I can remember a moment in time, one specific night, when her drunkenness was so terrible and affected me so badly that it actually made me begin to understand, to see, to experience, just how a person can want to commit suicide though I cannot ever see myself doing that. It took me quite a while to realize how destructive and damaging that experience is to a child and to the adult child and to their psyche.
My mother was very manipulative and very controlling. Everything negative which happened within her life and caused her to drink even more was my fault. The strange thing was that I chose to believe her until I began to wake up and took a good long hard look at her and also myself.
My mother was an alcoholic until the day she died. She did not need AA according to her. She was not an alcoholic and she was far too good for those people. She loved me so much, according to her, but basically she would say this to me when she was slobberingly drunk. Do you have any idea what it is like for a young adult woman who has to face the human being who gave birth to her while she is slobberingly drunk and crying in her liquor? Do you have any idea what it is like to go looking for this alcoholic in bars in order to bring her safely home?

So I say to you, gib, your welcome. The alcoholic may suffer but not as much as the children do.
Remember that.
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15278
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:22 pm

Meno_ wrote:I have had the pleasure of talking with You off and on, and honestly my recollection fails me as to what we were discussing.


I believe you responded to my comment in Gloominary's thread.

Meno_ wrote:But I sympathise and it is because I agree with what You're saying, especially because I have gone through it, and if I may offer some correlative story with what I have gone through. Its quite similar really.

Back about 15 years ago, many things happened to upset the my applecart my mother , best friend, my mother in law, followed by my son all passed.
Then I got back on the alcohol and went to work and they smelled it on my breath. The management gave me an ultimatum, either go to rehab. or, go look for another another job.

For me , an obsessive person, this became a nightmare, I was torn because I was totally addicted, and decided to go.
It was a win win experience and I haven't been 100 per cent clean.

I'm glad because without a few my creative life would drive up in a minute. What I got out of the six months, was that I cut down to managed levels without adding the added dissappointment of having to deal with another guilt to my already rather hefty collection, of lacking willpower. Other fuolts I kicked in the behind are a little personal to write about about, but they seal with philanderinf and insincerity.
I've become more open, less afraid of what others think. and that is giving me much more serenity.I've come to realize, that is have to start to forgive myself more, because in a large part drinking helps to alley guilt, even the guilt and shame attached to diminished lack of social skills.
So when drinking out of lack of social skilla becomes becomes another guilt to worry about, it doesn't take a rocket rocket scientist to begin to see where this is heading


Feel free to PM me with whatever stories you want, Meno... or lay them out here. ;)

Meno_ wrote:So what I did was not to -continue later my wife needs some help-

Back- but only for a second because she wants me to take her out for dinner, so I will leave this unfinished for now, .


Glad I'm not married.

Meno_ wrote:So of You are open to it, I would like to engage Your interest in pursuing it, and don't worry, when I am in a hurry, my writing is full of errors, but will go back and try also to edit it


Don't worry about editting. I can generally understand what you're saying (except what's philanderinf?). I'm a completely open book as you seem to be. We can engage on this topic, or any topic, any time you wish.

Arc, you're next. :evilfun:
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
User avatar
gib
resident exorcist
 
Posts: 8729
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: in your mom

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:41 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:So the above is to be your explanation for the last five years, gib?
If those statistics ARE real, so what?! Many fail then they pick their selves up and begin again. It all depends on just how serious and determined they are to turn their lives around, to get off all of that poison, and how much they value their selves and their loved ones.


Yeah, or... they can do what I'm doing.


Arcturus Descending wrote:I am not grasping what you are saying here. Obviously. Did *what* themselves? Have a relapse or manage to stay sober? Take a wild guess.
No one gets sober and stays sober by themselves. Give the girl a gold star! :clap: They need a lot of help and support. Not me.
Many who have a relapse always manage to blame it on others even though it can expected that there can be a relapse.


Usually, the victim mentallity is what leads to relapse in the first place. I don't have a victim mentality.



Arcturus Descending wrote:Appalled may be too strong a word here, gib I don't think so. and I do not really find it interesting. Then why are you still talking? What I question though is how you can make of yourself a guinea pig. Keep questioning Do you ever wonder looking back on the last five years where you might be right now if you had done things differently?
Have you looked ahead a year or two or three, et cetera, and wonder where you might be then if you continue down the same road ........or if you take, let's say, the road less traveled for you?


Now that's hardly fair, Arc. I know you're always eager to judge, but let's wait 'til after July 1 to ask these questions. I'm actually right on schedule.

Arcturus Descending wrote:
I can't wait to see the look on your face when I tell you after July 1 that I'm 100% clean and sober.


But this is the question. Will I even believe you based on the last five years? I'm guessing not. But it really is not necessary if I believe you. Ya think? What is important is you knowing that you did it.
But then where do you go from there?
There is a reason why people say "One Day at a Time". Sometimes it is "One Hour at a Time".


What the hell is that supposed to mean... where do I go from there? What, am I supposed to regret that I did it on my own according rather than go to rehab/AA? Am I supposed to reflect on the hollowness of my approach?

Arcturus Descending wrote:I have a lot of experience with alcoholism as I am the adult child of an alcoholic. Trust me when I say this, I know their ins and outs, I know their laziness and their ways of denial. I know their self-pity which is capable of sending their children into the depths of the abyss. I can remember a moment in time, one specific night, when her drunkenness was so terrible and affected me so badly that it actually made me begin to understand, to see, to experience, just how a person can want to commit suicide though I cannot ever see myself doing that. It took me quite a while to realize how destructive and damaging that experience is to a child and to the adult child and to their psyche.
My mother was very manipulative and very controlling. Everything negative which happened within her life and caused her to drink even more was my fault. The strange thing was that I chose to believe her until I began to wake up and took a good long hard look at her and also myself.
My mother was an alcoholic until the day she died. She did not need AA according to her. She was not an alcoholic and she was far too good for those people. She loved me so much, according to her, but basically she would say this to me when she was slobberingly drunk. Do you have any idea what it is like for a young adult woman who has to face the human being who gave birth to her while she is slobberingly drunk and crying in her liquor? Do you have any idea what it is like to go looking for this alcoholic in bars in order to bring her safely home?

So I say to you, gib, your welcome. The alcoholic may suffer but not as much as the children do.
Remember that.


:violin:
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
User avatar
gib
resident exorcist
 
Posts: 8729
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: in your mom

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:31 am

So this being-an-asshole-to-everyone thing isn't panning out so well. Most of you, I enjoy treating like shit, but then on occasion, I rip into someone whom I thereafter regret ripping into, someone like Meno_. I then get this really strange feeling that I'm not that familiar with... what is it called again? Oh yeah, guilt. I feel guilty. So I tell you all what... I'm just gonna treat you like shit if I feel like, or not if I don't, but I'm not gonna put a concerted effort into it either way.

I think an alcohol only diet makes me down right miserable. Maybe it should have been a negative.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
User avatar
gib
resident exorcist
 
Posts: 8729
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: in your mom

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby MagsJ » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:48 pm

gib wrote:So this being-an-asshole-to-everyone thing isn't panning out so well. Most of you, I enjoy treating like shit, but then on occasion, I rip into someone whom I thereafter regret ripping into, someone like Meno_. I then get this really strange feeling that I'm not that familiar with... what is it called again? Oh yeah, guilt. I feel guilty. So I tell you all what... I'm just gonna treat you like shit if I feel like, or not if I don't, but I'm not gonna put a concerted effort into it either way.

I think an alcohol only diet makes me down right miserable. Maybe it should have been a negative.

Why worry about it, even...?
Image
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist
 
Posts: 17505
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: London, NC1

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:02 pm

gib wrote:So this being-an-asshole-to-everyone thing isn't panning out so well. Most of you, I enjoy treating like shit, but then on occasion, I rip into someone whom I thereafter regret ripping into, someone like Meno_. I then get this really strange feeling that I'm not that familiar with... what is it called again? Oh yeah, guilt. I feel guilty. So I tell you all what... I'm just gonna treat you like shit if I feel like, or not if I don't, but I'm not gonna put a concerted effort into it either way.

I think an alcohol only diet makes me down right miserable. Maybe it should have been a negative.


Ever think that if your body craves it then it might be healthy at times?
Slenderman can invoke memory loss in all but the most resolute - you could have already had a Slenderman encounter and not remember it.
User avatar
The Eternal Warrior
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2542
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:26 am

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:17 am

MagsJ wrote:
gib wrote:So this being-an-asshole-to-everyone thing isn't panning out so well. Most of you, I enjoy treating like shit, but then on occasion, I rip into someone whom I thereafter regret ripping into, someone like Meno_. I then get this really strange feeling that I'm not that familiar with... what is it called again? Oh yeah, guilt. I feel guilty. So I tell you all what... I'm just gonna treat you like shit if I feel like, or not if I don't, but I'm not gonna put a concerted effort into it either way.

I think an alcohol only diet makes me down right miserable. Maybe it should have been a negative.

Why worry about it, even...?


Because, Mags, because... just because...

The Eternal Warrior wrote:Ever think that if your body craves it then it might be healthy at times?


No.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
User avatar
gib
resident exorcist
 
Posts: 8729
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: in your mom

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:10 pm

You're wrong.
Slenderman can invoke memory loss in all but the most resolute - you could have already had a Slenderman encounter and not remember it.
User avatar
The Eternal Warrior
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2542
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:26 am

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby MagsJ » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:00 am

The Eternal Warrior wrote:You're wrong.

..he's being strong/exercising his willpower.
Image
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist
 
Posts: 17505
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: London, NC1

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:27 am

Eternal,

I'm aware of the studies that show that a glass a wine or a beer once a day is actually good for your health, but I don't think that's what you're talking about; you're talking about desires, cravings, and the only sense in which the satisfaction of those is good for you is when they're not corrupt. Drugs corrupt your brain. They corrupt the centers for cravings and desires, detaching them from healthy things and re-attaching them to unhealthy things. So no, I don't take my desires and cravings as necessarily indications of something healthy.

And BTW, drinking alcohol is the equivalent of drinking gasoline.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
User avatar
gib
resident exorcist
 
Posts: 8729
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: in your mom

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:39 pm

gib,

Just a question here or maybe two.

Did you at any time while you were reading my long text, the one which you responded to with a (:eusa-violin:), gain any kind of thought, insight, realization, et cetera, from my words or was your only response and reaction really only that of one playing the violin?

What do you believe or feel was the reason for that lack if you indeed received nothing from it?
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15278
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:25 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:gib,

Just a question here or maybe two.

Did you at any time while you were reading my long text, the one which you responded to with a (:eusa-violin:), gain any kind of thought, insight, realization, et cetera, from my words or was your only response and reaction really only that of one playing the violin?

What do you believe or feel was the reason for that lack if you indeed received nothing from it?


The minute I realized you were speaking out of ignorance, I went into trolling mode. :eusa-violin: is trolling. It's when I stop taking the other person seriously and start playing games instead.

But I did get something out of it; I got that you like to generalize:

Arcturus Descending wrote:I have a lot of experience with alcoholism as I am the adult child of an alcoholic. Trust me when I say this, I know their ins and outs, I know their laziness and their ways of denial. I know their self-pity which is capable of sending their children into the depths of the abyss.


You like to take your experience of your alcoholic mother and generalize to all alcoholic parents.

I am nothing like your mother... not remotely.

For example:

Arcturus Descending wrote:My mother was very manipulative and very controlling. Everything negative which happened within her life and caused her to drink even more was my fault.


I would never say anything like that to my kids, or make them feel they are to blame for my own faults. In fact, I have made a promise to them both to quit drinking and doing drugs July 1 of this year. I have my kids listed as my #1 reason for quitting. Seriously, I have list; it's stuck to the fridge with a magnet; it keeps growing (incidentally, I have: "shove it in Arc's face" on there :D ).

And just this here...

Arcturus Descending wrote:You have had five years of doing the same thing, over and over again!!!!


...was pure insulting. ^ That's what clued me in that you have absolutely, positively, indubitably... NO idea what I'm doing in this thread or how this whole procedure works... even though I made it crystal clear at several points throughout this thread. But since it's so uninteresting to you, I guess you don't bother reading... but of course, you're still totally qualified to post your arrogant rant about how I'm just like your alcoholic mother because, you know, all alcoholics are the same. No, no, Arc, don't bother reading, don't bother understanding, but please do tell us your expert opinion on my psychology and problems with addiction.

I am not seeing any sign in my children that they are suffering any trauma or hardship; they are both doing well in school, they have a healthy social life with their peers, they have big grins on their faces as they run to meet me on my weekends with them. In fact, my daughter occasionally reminds me that she wants to live with me (and I'm working towards that). My son tells me: "daddy's nice; mommy's mean" (I try to discourage him from talking about his mother that way, but...). Everybody who knows me thinks I'm an awesome dad. Would a dead beat parent write this for his son on his 7th birthday? Did your mother ever do anything like that for you?

My son does suffer anger management problems, and we're seeing a child psychologist, but my x and I both agree that he was like that since he was a few days old. 7:00 PM was the witching hour for him. It was like clock work. As soon as 7:00 PM rolled around, he became completely inconsolable (it wasn't exactly at 7:00 PM, but after 7:00 PM, the first thing to upset him would set him off on a non-stop crying marathon that only ended once he managed to fall asleep). As he grew to a toddler, young child, and now 7 years old, this inconsolable mood evolved into problems with letting things that upset him go, things that would anger him (like not getting a second dessert :lol: ). He gets angry at the ordinary things that ordinary kids get angry at, but ever since he was an infant, he did not have the skill of letting it go. He's learning that skill now, and in fact seems to be better at it when he's with me during one-on-one time than with his mother or his sister.

^ I really don't think the alcohol or the drugs are the crux of the problem here.

But in any case, Arc, if you want me to gain something from your rant, it might help if you first understood why these past five years have not just been a series of failed attempts. If you want to say I'm an egoist prick who refuses to swallow his pride, you may be onto something, but I doubt you'd understand half the reasons why that's true.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
User avatar
gib
resident exorcist
 
Posts: 8729
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: in your mom

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:48 pm

gib,

The minute I realized you were speaking out of ignorance, I went into trolling mode. :eusa-violin: is trolling. It's when I stop taking the other person seriously and start playing games instead.


How was I speaking out of ignorance according to you?
Granted, I cannot be a fly on the wall to see how you and your children relate to one another; how "sober" for lack of a better word you are when you are with them. So, no, I can have no knowledge of that whatsoever.
I pretty much figure that your wife would not turn over her and your children to you if you were not at that time sober. I hope not.
Yes, you are pretty good at playing the games, gib. That is why you are STILL HERE and waiting for July 1st.


My reason for relating that part of my story to you was so you might gain some insight or understanding into the mind and heart of someone who has had to deal with alcoholism, especially any child. There was no ranting whatsoever going on there, gib. I will admit that by doing that I did make myself somewhat vulnerable. Children who grow up with alcoholics or drug addicts ( a double dose there) do have scars which are capable of opening up.

You simply dismissed what I had to tell you and quite frankly I am not sure if that is not a symptom of your disease. It is a disease you know.


Arcturus Descending

I have a lot of experience with alcoholism as I am the adult child of an alcoholic. Trust me when I say this, I know their ins and outs, I know their laziness and their ways of denial. I know their self-pity which is capable of sending their children into the depths of the abyss.

You like to take your experience of your alcoholic mother and generalize to all alcoholic parents.


No gib, that is not a generalization. The above is a fact. I had the experience and many many have had the same experience. Perhaps your children have not. I have no idea how often you see them so hopefully they have not really been so touched by your way of life. Perhaps when you do see them, you are sober; otherwise, I am not so sure your wife would allow it.
But I do know that when an alcoholic has sober moments (not as a reformed alcoholic) he/she is struggling.
Are you so sure that your addictions do not touch your children in any way?


I am nothing like your mother... not remotely.

I do not mean to be harsh here but you are addicted to both alcohol and drugs. I would suggest that you are capable of being very much like her at times.
Could I be wrong...maybe...but I do not think so.


I would never say anything like that to my kids, or make them feel they are to blame for my own faults.


I hope that that is true.

In fact, I have made a promise to them both to quit drinking and doing drugs July 1 of this year.


By July 1st? On July 1st? Why the wait? Why the postponement? Why not NOW?

I have my kids listed as my #1 reason for quitting.


Your children are how old now? Why were they not on that list before?
That is a very good incentive to quit, gib, and I hope that it really works BUT what are you going to do to make sure that it works this time? As I said, your children have been around you for quite some time now.


Seriously, I have list; it's stuck to the fridge with a magnet; it keeps growing (incidentally, I have: "shove it in Arc's face" on there :D ).


For the sake of your children and yourself, I certainly would not mind being wrong.


And just this here...

You have had five years of doing the same thing, over and over again!!!!

gib: ...was pure insulting. ^


You took it as an insult. Why is that? It was meant as a challenge though and it is FACT.
After 5 years and perhaps more of "off and on" you are still treating yourself like a guinea pig and postponing the inevitable.


That's what clued me in that you have absolutely, positively, indubitably... NO idea what I'm doing in this thread or how this whole procedure works... even though I made it crystal clear at several points throughout this thread.


But it is not working, is it gib. Even now you are promising your children that come July 1st you are giving up alcohol and drugs.
How do you plan to do this? Are you going to AA meetings?
If it were that easy to just STOP by hasn't it happened in all of this time?


.... because, you know, all alcoholics are the same.

Psychically speaking, they are for the most part. Only the histories and experiences may differ.


I am not seeing any sign in my children that they are suffering any trauma or hardship; they are both doing well in school, they have a healthy social life with their peers, they have big grins on their faces as they run to meet me on my weekends with them.


I am happy to hear that. Ask yourself a question. If your children lived with you, would you be responding in the same way?


In fact, my daughter occasionally reminds me that she wants to live with me (and I'm working towards that)
.

So you plan to go to AA and to get help? If I were a judge, after having read this thread, I would not be giving custody of your daughter to you. Harsh again I know. I am a mean horrible person. I judge you. I have absolutely no sense of who you are. My observations are completely off the mark where you are concerned.

Only you can know for sure how drunk or stoned you are if you are which you must be since you promised your children that there would be no more of that come July 1st.


My son tells me: "daddy's nice; mommy's mean" (I try to discourage him from talking about his mother that way, but...). Everybody who knows me thinks I'm an awesome dad. Would a dead beat parent write this for his son on his 7th birthday?


Yes that is a beautiful gift to give your child. A lot of time, energy and love went into it. At the same time, there is a gift which is far more valuable and meaningful, a gift which as your children get older, would/will appreciate far more/value far more. Your sobriety. A lot of time, energy, struggle and love will go into gaining sobriety too. Which do you think is the greater gift?

Did your mother ever do anything like that for you?

lol No, my mother was not a writer. She did have her moments which would eventually turn to dust because she could not, would not, give me the one thing which I would have valued more than anything - a sober Mom. My mother was more intent on living her life her way, even though it was miserable, highly destructive and caused pain all around.


I can greatly admire men and women who had strong addictions but got help for them, turning their life around. It takes a lot of honesty, fortitude, struggle and inner strength to overcome things like that. It also takes the right kind of self-love and self-caring.


My son does suffer anger management problems, and we're seeing a child psychologist, but my x and I both agree that he was like that since he was a few days old. 7:00 PM was the witching hour for him. It was like clock work. As soon as 7:00 PM rolled around, he became completely inconsolable (it wasn't exactly at 7:00 PM, but after 7:00 PM, the first thing to upset him would set him off on a non-stop crying marathon that only ended once he managed to fall asleep). As he grew to a toddler, young child, and now 7 years old, this inconsolable mood evolved into problems with letting things that upset him go, things that would anger him (like not getting a second dessert :lol: ). He gets angry at the ordinary things that ordinary kids get angry at, but ever since he was an infant, he did not have the skill of letting it go. He's learning that skill now, and in fact seems to be better at it when he's with me during one-on-one time than with his mother or his sister.


So again, what do you consider would be the greatest gift which you could give to your son - and to your daughter?


^ I really don't think the alcohol or the drugs are the crux of the problem here.


You might have to do a lot of reading to figure that one out or talk to people who would know about it. It may be a biblical saying but remember the one - "The sins of the parents are visited upon the children? But my question to you would be: Why are you so eager to dismiss that possibility?
When I use the word "sins" I am not putting a guilt trip on you. I am talking about genes, heredity and how alcoholism and drug addiction can affect children both physically and psychically and emotionally. You also know how and why your own journey into them took place.

But the real bottom line there, at least for me, is that your son is getting help.


But in any case, Arc, if you want me to gain something from your rant, it might help if you first understood why these past five years have not just been a series of failed attempts.


Would I be wrong in saying that your meaning here is that you have also had successes?
I am sorry but I just cannot see it that way. Your whole purposes is to stop the drinking and taking of drugs, or am I wrong?
Has it been in some way a scientific experiment with you?
If that is the case, you are not just playing with your own life but with that of your children.


If you want to say I'm an egoist prick who refuses to swallow his pride, you may be onto something, but I doubt you'd understand half the reasons why that's true.


That sounds like it just might be more of an excuse than an explanation but I may be wrong in my thought. The men and women who eventually gave up that mindset or mentality are the ones who are now the reformed alcoholics who never touched another drink although at times they may have dearly wanted one.

None of what I have written in here is a rant and I can see that for the most part it is falling on deaf ears, at least I think that it is...another symptom.

I really hope that this time is going to be it for you gib but thinking and hoping for it is not doing it. There is no magic in that...just magical thinking.
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15278
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:55 pm

Arc, you're still speaking out of ignorance and you're still generalizing. Sounds like you're pretty sure of your opinion, so I think it would be a waste of my time to argue with you about that.

I'm just going to respond to a few things you said:

Arcturus Descending wrote:You took it as an insult. Why is that?


Because this was you speaking out of ignorance. You're speaking as though I've been trying to get off the drugs and alcohol these past 5 years, and that each 2 month stint was a failure. As I said before, this is not what these 2 month stints were, and you would know that if you read the thread before making that comment. The insult is you being critical without first bothering to understand (because it's too uninteresting) what you're being critical about.

Also, I'm conditioning myself to be extra sensitive to criticisms/attacks on my approach, and I'm doing it on purpose. I'm conditioning myself to take pride in my approach, to put all my value into it (that's why it will work), which therefore means that criticisms/attacks against it are going to sting more. It's called the migration of value. I talked about it above. You can search it.

Arcturus Descending wrote:After 5 years and perhaps more of "off and on" you are still treating yourself like a guinea pig and postponing the inevitable.


You've brought this up before, the guinea pig analogy. You talk about it as if it's a bad thing. I don't get it. Experimentation is what we do to learn. Treating myself as a guinea pig teaching me about myself, helps me grow.

Arcturus Descending wrote:
gib wrote:That's what clued me in that you have absolutely, positively, indubitably... NO idea what I'm doing in this thread or how this whole procedure works... even though I made it crystal clear at several points throughout this thread.


But it is not working, is it gib. Even now you are promising your children that come July 1st you are giving up alcohol and drugs.
How do you plan to do this? Are you going to AA meetings?
If it were that easy to just STOP by hasn't it happened in all of this time?


Ok, this is probably a good spot to explain, in a nut shell, what's been going on these past 5 years... at least I'll try.

Have a look at this chart:

Image

Notice a pattern? Notice how each 2 month stint is a different combination of the three main drug categories I consider to be a problem for me? Except for the first two. The second one (Aug. 2014 to Oct. 2014) was just a repeat of the first one because I figured I needed to do it again. To go through all 7 combination (plus a repeat of the first)--that is, all 2 month stints with breaks in between--has taken 5 years. This was on purpose. I expected from the very beginning that the whole thing would take 5 years (and I told my x this). And I'm right on schedule. Each 2 month stint was a resounding success. Why? Because the goal was not to get off the drugs and alcohol right then and there; the goal was to get off the drugs and alcohol (or some combination thereof) just for those two months... and I never fell off the horse once. They were successes. The whole thing, so far, is a success.

July 1 will work because it's not just another 2 month stint. It's the actual formal decision I've made for myself. Now that I've gone through all combinations via these 2 month stints with breaks in between, I'm ready to actually make this move. It won't be just the next attempt in a series of failed attempts, it'll be the first attempt.

In fact, I even wrote this above: I said that I'm actually disappointed in the results. Life tends to be dull and boring, and sometimes depressing, off the drugs and alcohol. I learned that you can't just find a quick substitute for the drugs, at least not within 2 months. But then why am I still committed to quitting July 1? In the beginning, I told myself I needed these 2 month experiments in order to give myself some hands-on experiences with sobriety--that is, in order to convince myself a drug and alcohol free life is indeed better. You would think, then, that if I'm now disappointed in the results, I should be deciding not to quit. So why am I deciding otherwise? Because this whole thing worked. My decision, and desire, to quit is no longer dependent on the results of these experiments. The migration of value that I performed on myself these past 5 years has made it so that I actually value quitting regardless of the results of these experiments. In other words, the experiments were only a surface mechanism, something to get the ball rolling, but underneath the surface (in a sort of semi-conscious state, I suppose) I've been working on changing my values such that I don't need to conduct these experiments in order to justify quitting. This is what really makes it work, investing all my value into quitting. When you're stubborn like I am, you have to play tricks on yourself in order to let go of unhealthy attachments. I'm in a state of mind now where it's just a matter of executing the decision, whereas 5 years ago, I was too stubborn to even consider it without positive results from my experiments. By the sounds of it, your mother didn't even want to try sobriety, not even for 2 months. I'm in a totally different state of mind, thanks to these past 5 years, than your mother ever was.

^ This is what I've been explaining throughout this thread, just not so succinctly.

And to answer your question about what I'm going to do to make this decision stick (besides will power and commitment), let me quote myself:

gib wrote:What are the things I intend to do with my year, probably two, away from drugs and alcohol? How do I intend to replace them?

1) Therapy

2) Take a Dale Carnegie course

3) Get a tattoo

4) Take acting classes

5) Talk to WendyDarling about astral projections

6) Talk to my good friend Rita about other forms of spirituality

7) Get exorcised

Let's go through these one by one, shall we?

1) Therapy: I'm going to walk into the doctor's office and say: help me be awesome. There are other ways of saying this:
- Help me become extroverted, not introverted.
- Help me become fit to run a business.
- Help me to influence people rather than be influenced.
- Help me to become more energetic.
All things which the drugs helped me do--at least the caffeine and alcohol--but I want to learn how to do this without a crutch. I'm hoping a therapist can help. I intend to take the attitude that there's nothing wrong with me--and indeed I think I will be able to say that with full confidence and conviction on July 1--but that I want to become better anyway (to be fucking awesome!). I want to be better than OK. The drugs made me feel like a super star, like a god. I want to be able to churn that out with the power of my own mind.

2) Take a Dale Carnegie course: I took the Dale Carnegie course when I was 14 (my dad thought it would help given the problems I was having at school). I was too young at the time to realize how I was supposed to apply the lessons they taught me, but I'm 41 now and very capable of applying these principles. Back then, I sort of expected things to happen automatically, as though the Dale Carnegie coaches were gonna make me more sociable, that I just had to let them do the work. Now I see it like a tool. Like therapy, I mean to use it with intent--that is, like a tool which does nothing by itself, I intend to use it proactively, to purposefully apply the lessons they teach to actual life.

3) Get a tattoo: This one here:

Image

This is a drawing a made a while back. I call it "Transition"--perfect for what I'm going through. I intend to get this branded on my upper back as a symbol of my salvation, of being set free from my demon. <-- That's a whole other story which I won't get into, but suffice it to say, the drugs definitely keep my demon alive, like feeding a leach with what you consume for yourself. Starve yourself and you starve the leach. Yet my hope is that Gaseous (that's his name) is also set free by this act. I will consider the act of tattooing myself a kind of self-induced exorcism. My hope is that he will stand trial before God and he will be judged on the good acts he has performed in teaching me his wisdom the last 20 years, that his parole will have proven worthwhile, and that he will be forgiven--an exorcism for us both, so to speak--and that, now with freedom, he will chose to revisit me, and maybe because of that, continue to fuel me with the magic he has so far imparted to me. <-- That would be another way to replace the drugs.

On a more practical note (to come back down to Earth :lol: ), the tattoo will symbolize my commitment to abstain from drugs and alcohol, not only out of a desire to express myself with body art, but as another psychological trick. I mean, if you really want to stick to a commitment, what better way than to permanently brand yourself? It's the equivalent of tattooing onto your forehead: "I promise never to do drugs again." <-- You can't just go back on that.

(As an aside, I also think I deserve it. I've always been reluctant to the idea of getting a tattoo because, well, that's for tough guys, or maybe cool guys who ride motorbikes; but I had an epiphany: why do you care if you're a touch guy or not? Why not get a tattoo because you earned it? Why not because you did something that is worth a tattoo, something like giving up drugs and alcohol?)

4) Take acting classes: Now this one's a rather new ambition. I thought to myself one day: how are you going to be confident enough to socialize with people and to flirt with girls without your liquid courage? Well, why not just pretend to be a guy who's confident enough to socialize and flirt with girls? Play a roll, act a part. If you feel like it's lying, then be okay with lying. I even thought this: if you want a substitute for drugs, see how far you can get with acting like you're on drugs. I could go to the bar stone cold sober and just walk around talking to people like a stumbling drunk. If you had the acting skills, you could probably pull this off. Then you could socialize and talk to girls just like you did in the good old days... huh? Am I right? Huh?

And with any luck, the placebo effect might come into play... actually making you feel drunk (or high, or stoned, or whatever).

And this could be used in all sort of life's facets... being a good salesman for example. If you don't think you're smooth enough, or influential enough, or persuasive enough... try acting like someone who is... see how far you get.

5) Talk to WendyDarling about astral projections: this speaks for itself I think. Astral projections would be the perfect substitute for drugs, and WendyDarling can attest to their reality. She's had them before and *might* be able to instruct me on how to induce one for myself. No pressure Wendy, but I'm coming for you after July 1 :D . We've talked about this before and she knows I'm eager to learn from her once I get off the drugs. And spiritual experiences in general would be an incredibly fitting substitute for the drugs--doesn't have to be astral projections--I mean, if you had the ability to astral project, or talk to spirits, or gain a psychic ability, or to perform magic... wouldn't you give up an addiction to have it?

And what if this is just a bunch of nonsense, mumbo-jumbo, new aged bull shit? What if it is? I'd still be willing to settle just for the experience thereof. I mean, suppose that the experience of astral projection wasn't really your soul leaving your body and blasting through the cosmos FTL, what if it was just a psychedelic experience, a hallucination, an alternate state of consciousness that was happening only in my brain?... well gee, how could that possibly count as a substitute for drugs? And what if there is no such experience? What if, after a year or more of trying, I can't astral project any more than I can now? Well, hopefully, given that year or more, I will have bought enough time to experience the benefits of sobriety, enough so that I will still be able to say it's worth staying sober. IOW, maybe the migration of value can still happen--migrating away from a compromised value (astral projection) and towards an uncompromised value (the benefits of being sober for a year or more).

6) Talk to my good friend Rita about other forms of spirituality: Now Rita isn't her real name; to protect her identity, I will not reveal her real name. But she knows a lot about spirituality; she's much like Wendy in my eyes. So essentially, she might be able to serve the same purpose that Wendy might. The power of two spiritualist is better than one. And I can actually meet up with Rita whereas my contact with Wendy is limited to PMs.

7) Get exorcised: speaks for itself... I think I need an exorcism. Hoping Wendy can help, maybe Rita too. If not, maybe they can recommend someone. If not, hoping the tattoo will do the trick. If not, oh well, it's a delusion anyway.


And I'm gonna apologize. Sorry for the violin. You were putting yourself out there, becoming vulnerable like you said, tell us something that would normally be private, and I rudely dismissed it with the little violin guy. I'm sorry. I hereby validate you.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
User avatar
gib
resident exorcist
 
Posts: 8729
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: in your mom

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:17 pm

MagsJ wrote:
The Eternal Warrior wrote:You're wrong.

..he's being strong/exercising his willpower.


No. He's being weak in expressing a lie. When a body craves something, it can be as simple as just a bad addiction. However, in a reality where everything stems from nature and is natural, the very same thing that is poison in large amounts is healing and therapy when moderated. Even excess, in moderation, is readily good medicine. And, this should be taken with some grain of 'obviously, we all indulge in excess before we get to the point of being able to moderate.' And that should be a 'DUH', that should be an 'of course, this is obvious', if not for how stupid we all have been.

Now, obviously, I do say 'we all' for a reason, because if it were easy for me to say all that I have said, then you forget the years of seeing me refine what I say and how I say it. Obviously took effort, obviously needed to be pointed out for how obvious it is for the obvious problem of erratic thought processes, all that I did while getting high on meth, high on pot, living homeless, under attack and fighting, I managed to keep my mind, to some extent becoming healthier under it all than I had been my entire life, due to perception, due to waking up, due to wanting to live instead of wanting to die, of fighting to get out of negativity and depression... all the self-help book and seminars with douche-bags prescribed medicine.

The fact that if your body craves it, then it must, to some extent be healthy. They say fast food isnt healthy for the grease, but then why do we have it at all? Unhealthy eating? Due to what, unhealthy living? What is healthy living and why do completely healthy people still have as much danger from dropping dead? And shouldn't that be worried about more than the obviously unhealthy? Vegetables aren't much healthier for you than meat; they can cause gas, health problems just the same. Meat being just as healthy, not less or more. And, what are you supplementing for your lack of drugs and alcohol? You're not just going without without having a supplementary addiction that could be just as harmful if not more. And, if youre struggling with continued 'withdrawal attacks' etc., shouldnt you be wondering to some extent about, 'what if that bastard is right and drugs and alcohol are, to some extent, healthy? Maybe not for me, I might be healthier without them for supplementing other things in my life for addictions, but they could still be healthy for other people.'

And, realistically, healthy or not for people here or there, why should any of us care too much about that? I think, to some extent, morality only extends so far and we should focus more on this being said for intellectual curiosity and gain than moralistic purposes.
Slenderman can invoke memory loss in all but the most resolute - you could have already had a Slenderman encounter and not remember it.
User avatar
The Eternal Warrior
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2542
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:26 am

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:30 am

Tell you what, Eternal. You do you, and I'll do me. I'll quit the drugs but I promise not to put any pressure on you to do the same. That way, you can feel free to indulge in whatever drug habits you desire without feeling like you now have to live up to a new standard.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
User avatar
gib
resident exorcist
 
Posts: 8729
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: in your mom

Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:05 pm

gib,


Because this was you speaking out of ignorance. You're speaking as though I've been trying to get off the drugs and alcohol these past 5 years, and that each 2 month stint was a failure. As I said before, this is not what these 2 month stints were, and you would know that if you read the thread before making that comment.


All right. So these past five years your main focus and GOAL was NOT about getting off the drugs and alcohol. You were simply experimenting. I still do not get the reasonableness of it all but I am perhaps coming from a place where you have not been ~~ or perhaps you have. Did alcoholism touch your life as you were growing up? You do not have to answer that if you do not want to.
The bottom line is that you have the freedom to come to consciousness in whichever way you choose.


The insult is you being critical without first bothering to understand (because it's too uninteresting) what you're being critical about.


It would still not have made any difference to me, gib. I still see no logic in it considering what alcohol and drug addiction can do to lives, what it did to my life. That is my right. Of course, you have the right to live your life the way you choose but people also have the right to disagree with your way of thinking but it is still your way of thinking. I am coming from a place of experience and knowledge though I can understand your choosing to deny that. You really have no idea *where I live* at my core or where I *lived* at my core.



Also, I'm conditioning myself to be extra sensitive to criticisms/attacks on my approach, and I'm doing it on purpose. I'm conditioning myself to take pride in my approach, to put all my value into it (that's why it will work), which therefore means that criticisms/attacks against it are going to sting more. It's called the migration of value. I talked about it above. You can search it.


Doesn't that seem a bit counter-intuitive?
If you truly believe and value what you are about then why give way to such negativity? Wouldn't questioning what others say be a more reasonable thing to do and then afterwards, if you actually disagree, just affirm and validate yourself.

We cannot, ourselves, always be *impartial* judges and witnesses to ourselves. Can we, gib?


You've brought this up before, the guinea pig analogy. You talk about it as if it's a bad thing. I don't get it. Experimentation is what we do to learn. Treating myself as a guinea pig teaching me about myself, helps me grow.


...to the point where you will make the conscious decision to STOP drinking and drugging, continue in an ongoing way to get help and to give the gift of that promise which you made to your children to stop by July 1st?
One day at a time of course or one hour at a time.

What was the most important thing which you learned about yourself over the last five years insofar as your addictions go and how it might help you in your journey into sobriety ~~ in case I missed it somewhere?


July 1 will work because it's not just another 2 month stint. It's the actual formal decision I've made for myself. Now that I've gone through all combinations via these 2 month stints with breaks in between, I'm ready to actually make this move. It won't be just the next attempt in a series of failed attempts, it'll be the first attempt.


Hmmm...the first attempt? I may actually be wrong in what I am thinking here but is it a good idea to think of it as an attempt? Your mindset right there means that you realize you may fail. Of course, that is possible. There are setbacks and relapses. I think it is important to see that ahead of time. As I said, I may be wrong but considering it as an *attempt*? Is that healthy? I do not know. It was just a thought.
I suppose that it IS important to give ourselves permission to have failed, to be loving toward ourselves through it and then get back up and continue on...and not to give up on ourselves.



In fact, I even wrote this above: I said that I'm actually disappointed in the results. Life tends to be dull and boring, and sometimes depressing, off the drugs and alcohol
.

Other times it can be just the opposite, gib. We take both of them.
What are some of the things which you have done in the past, during your two-month stints, to keep yourself off the alcohol and drugs, when you were in the throes of boredom and dullness?
Where do you find your bliss, gib?


What are the things I intend to do with my year, probably two, away from drugs and alcohol? How do I intend to replace them?

1) Therapy

2) Take a Dale Carnegie course

3) Get a tattoo

4) Take acting classes

5) Talk to WendyDarling about astral projections

6) Talk to my good friend Rita about other forms of spirituality

7) Get exorcised


All of these things do sound interesting.
Do you believe that in the midst of doing all of these things you will not feel the need to drink?
At some point, you may get tired of them or they may not offer you the excitement which you seem to need. This is possible, you know. What then?
Again perhaps I am wrong but it is good to be prepared.

Maybe you need to take things a bit slow. Allow yourself to be a bit bored with life. Anyway, you will be talking with a therapist. Perhaps it might be a good idea to find one who has been a reformed alcoholic for years but I may be wrong.
I am quite aware of how very often I have been wrong but if you use this against me, my wrath shall be visited upon you, gib. lol Only kidding.


How often do you feel you will see a therapist? AA meetings give you the opportunity to *be there* when you are feeling down and shaky...if or when that happens. That is the beauty of the meetings. There will be like people there who have experienced what you have and will want to help you. You will need a strong sense of inter-connectedness.


Get exorcised.


I would be very interested to know how this comes about. I was going to make a negative comment being the skeptic but I figure that I will just shut my mouth and wait to see what you have to say about it.

1) Therapy: I'm going to walk into the doctor's office and say: help me be awesome. There are other ways of saying this:
- Help me become extroverted, not introverted.
- Help me become fit to run a business.
- Help me to influence people rather than be influenced.
- Help me to become more energetic.


So, what do you think will *actually* be the first thing you say to him/her after the initial pleasantries have been done away with.


I intend to take the attitude that there's nothing wrong with me--and indeed I think I will be able to say that with full confidence and conviction on July 1
--

Does this mean that come July 1st, you believe that you will not need the therapist?

I just deleted the sentence which I had typed here and I will ask you this instead: In what way do you mean "that there's nothing wrong with me"? Can you explain that attitude and how it will serve you?

Do you believe that of July 1st you will be reformed and healed?
Ah, no. I think that you are much too intelligent and aware to believe that.


but that I want to become better anyway (to be fucking awesome!).


Why do you feel you want to be awesome? What will that do for you?
Also, do you not, in some ways, already feel that you are awesome or capable of being awesome, in a humble way, :evilfun: albeit you have these problems?


I want to be better than OK. The drugs made me feel like a super star, like a god. I want to be able to churn that out with the power of my own mind.


Hmmm...Will your mind also have the humility to admit that you cannot go it alone and that it will take a lot of time, patience, energy, struggle, honesty, exorcising of any (unsupernatural) :evilfun: daemons and stick-to-itive-ness?

I mean, if you really want to stick to a commitment, what better way than to permanently brand yourself? It's the equivalent of tattooing onto your forehead: "I promise never to do drugs again." <-- You can't just go back on that.


lol
I do not know, gib. You may want to ask all of the men with tattoos of their girlfriends' faces or names who they were so obsessed with but who have long since gone the way into history.

I think that imagining the faces of your two smiling happy children might be by far a much stronger imagery to hold onto to solidify your commitment but then I am thinking as a Mom.


(As an aside, I also think I deserve it. I've always been reluctant to the idea of getting a tattoo because, well, that's for tough guys, or maybe cool guys who ride motorbikes; but I had an epiphany: why do you care if you're a touch guy or not? Why not get a tattoo because you earned it? Why not because you did something that is worth a tattoo, something like giving up drugs and alcohol?)


I have a little tattoo. Anyway, at what point would you get tattooed to ACTUALLY symbolize that you HAVE earned it? Prior to July 1st or how many months past that time when you become conscious of the fact that you indeed earned it or are earning it?



7) Get exorcised: speaks for itself... I think I need an exorcism. Hoping Wendy can help, maybe Rita too. If not, maybe they can recommend someone. If not, hoping the tattoo will do the trick. If not, oh well, it's a delusion anyway.


The journey which you will be on to get off and stay off of the alcohol and drugs WILL BE part of an exorcism though perhaps a different one than you mean.
You really appear to be *raring to go* gib. You need to slow down but you probably will not.


And I'm gonna apologize. Sorry for the violin. You were putting yourself out there, becoming vulnerable like you said, tell us something that would normally be private, and I rudely dismissed it with the little violin guy. I'm sorry. I hereby validate you.


That is okay gib and I appreciate the apology. You did not hurt my feelings at all. I just questioned your response.
You may consider me hereby validated.
:angelic-blueglow:
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15278
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

PreviousNext

Return to Non-Philosophical Chat



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot]

cron