2 months--no drugs or alcohol

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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:12 am

Raw chocolate contains many important vitamins and minerals including:4
Magnesium, and other essential minerals including calcium, sulfur, zinc, iron, copper, potassium, and manganese
Polyphenols called flavonoids, with antioxidant properties
Vitamins: B1, B2, B3, B5, B9, E
Essential heart-healthy fat: oleic acid a monounsaturated fat
Protein
Fiber

These nutrients found in raw chocolate have been linked to a number of health benefits:

1) Raw chocolate can lower blood pressure & improve circulation

Flavanols, theobromine, and other components found in cacao may lower blood pressure and enhance circulation by promoting dilation, strength, and health of blood vessels

2) Raw chocolate can promote cardiovascular function & health

The antioxidant power of flavonoids and essential minerals and vitamins found in cacao can support healthy heart functioning5 by lowering blood pressure, improving blood flow, lowering LDL cholesterol, and reducing plaque buildup on artery walls.6

3) Raw chocolate Can Neutralize free radicals

High levels of antioxidants protect the body from a buildup of free radicals from sun exposure, pollution, cigarette smoking, etc., which may damage healthy body tissue giving rise to cancer and cardiovascular disease.

4) Raw Chocolate can improve digestion

A sufficient amount of fiber delivered with each serving of cacao supports digestion while cacao stimulates the body’s production of digestive enzymes.

5) Raw chocolate can enhance physical and mental well-being

There are many components of cacao including alkaloids, proteins, beta-carotene, leucine, linoleic, lipase, lysine, and theobromine, that all work together to improve physical and mental health. For example, theombromine helps to stimulate the central nervous system, relax smooth muscles, and dilate blood vessels, giving the body a boost of energy; “bliss” chemicals found in cacao help to increase circulation and availability of serotonin and other neurotransmitters in brain, improving mood and combating depression.

Raw Chocolate Buying Tips

Cacao beans can be found at most health food markets including Whole Foods, and online at Amazon, or Navitas Naturals.

Raw cacao can be purchased as whole beans (peeled or unpeeled), nibs 7, or powder8. by Jessica Zack
http://www.builtlean.com/2012/04/12/raw-chocolate/

According to the United States Department of Agriculture, a tablespoon of unsweetened cocoa powder contains 12 milligrams of caffeine. This is approximately one-eighth the amount of caffeine contained in an 8-ounce cup of coffee.

For a 2-ounce, 70 percent dark chocolate bar with 10 percent cocoa butter, the amount of caffeine is 79 milligrams. As a comparison, an 8-ounce cup of coffee contains 145 milligrams of caffeine. If you consumed all of that dark chocolate bar at one time, you would still be consuming less caffeine than 1 cup of coffee.


Basically 4 ounces = 1 8oz. coffee (however good coffee tastes it does not have the health benefits)
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I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:34 pm

Thank you very much, Mongoose, I will be trying that.
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It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:09 am

You're very welcome Gibmuffin. :mrgreen:
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:22 pm

Well, this is the start of my 6th abstinence experiment, and as Mongoose said, this time it will feature caffeine and that's it. I will be trying her suggestion of 80% dark chocolate, but not all the time. I might try it on one of my "off-caffeine" days. For the most part, I save my caffeine days for Friday, but on occasion I do need a small pick-me-up during the week. When that happens, I usually have half a cup of coffee for the day and that's it. Maybe on one of these days, I'll try Mongoose's suggestion.

So starting today, Jan 1 2017 (Happy New Year everyone!!! :occasion-balloons: ), 'til Feb 28 2017, I will only be consuming caffeine as my choice of drug.

And now an aside: I think these experiments I've been conducting on myself since December of 2013 have been working. At the beginning, I started with the attitude that this was just going to be an experiment, nothing more, and that based on the results I'd decide whether or not I wanted to get off the drugs. Now it's become more than that. I actual do want to get off the drugs--even before the experiments are over--and I'm sure of that. I'm even looking forward to it.

However...

The experiments must continue if they are to be successful at all. But so far, they seem to be working. They're having the desired effect.

That means I have to go through two more rounds after this--they will include 2 months of alcohol only, and 2 months of cannibinoids only--and in keeping with prior ideas, I'd like to keep them 3 months apart if I can. That means the next round after this will be June/July of 2017 and round 3 will be Nov/Dec 2017. However, like last year when I didn't want any of my stints to overlap the office Christmas party so I pushed it 'til now, this time I think I'm going to do the same for 2017. So the final stint will probably be Jan/Feb of 2018. I'll give myself 3 months of usual intoxication after that, and then I'm going to go a full year, if not more, completely alcohol and drug free. I feel I need a full year (at least) because these 2 month stints don't seem to be providing enough data. If you look at the chart, they are averaging between slightly positive to moderately positive.

Image

I figure a full year will not only provide more data, but will really give my body a good chance to adjust and start adding more meaning/excitement to my life on its own rather than depending on the drugs for that. It will also provide me the opportunity to try seeking out other substitutes, things that might add a richer spiritual dimension to my life--Moreno suggested taking up some extreme sports, Mongoose suggests OBE's (btw, Mongoose, if you're reading this, this is why I said I'd get back to you about that after roughly a year), might get into meditation again--but something definitely has to replace the drugs, and starting in the summer of 2018, I'll start trying these things. <-- This is part of the reason I'm looking forward to it.

And at the end of this (at least) one year stint, I will, once again, give myself the option of making a choice right then and there. This would be opposed to giving myself a short period (like a few months) of intoxication after the (at least) full year before deciding once and for all. My decision, of course, will be what I want to give up and what I want to keep. I feel at least the caffeine will have to go because it has the most noticeable effects on my energy levels, and I know from past experiences of abstinence, after a while without caffeine, my body's natural energy levels do come back. <-- That was the plan all along. But I feel that if this (at least) one year proves fruitful, and indeed spiritual, then it will provide more incentive to give up all the drugs. I think this has to be an option since it surreptitiously allows me to look back and say: I really quit summer of 2018.

The fact that now I know I want this gives me confidence that I will make the choice right then and there and that I will choose abstinence. Even if all the new age spiritual mumbo jumbo junk turns out to be a farce, I'm confident that having a whole year (at least) behind me of experiences without drugs or alcohol will tell me that my life is indeed better now.

That being said, I do want to continue exploring alternate mind states but without becoming addicted to the drugs. I know I can do that. For example, what if I got my hands on some DMT? I'd allow myself maybe 4 or 5 sessions with it and then dump the rest. I have absolutely no doubts that I can do such a thing without becoming addicted. The problem isn't physical addiction. It's my attitude and values--this whole thread being an exercise in reprogramming them. And I know that I can tell myself "4 or 5 sessions and that's it" and commit to that. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I've always had a knack for carrying through with the things I say I'll carry through with. Trying new drugs for the sake of exploring new experience won't be a problem. <-- And this is really what I wanted all along--to be able to delve into these mind states for the sake of knowing them without becoming addicted. That's the practice I want to keep. And who knows--with any luck, all the spiritual mumbo jumbo shit I get into might introduce me to some alternative, healthier, drug free ways of doing it (Moreno did hint that he's able to see God).

Now I keep saying "at least" one full year. Why? Because the full year that I want is going to be about more than just abstinence from all drugs and alcohol, it's also going to be about letting go of all the major things in my life that are dragging me down. This includes the drugs, of course, but it also includes my book. I want to be done publishing it, and for that I *might* need a deadline later than the summer of 2018 (if I were to guess, I'd say maybe an extra six months). <-- Those are the two "anchors" in my life that I feel are weighing me down, keeping me from full spiritual freedom. (There's also my children, but I don't want to let them go). So it might end up being a year and a half (and that's a good thing... more data).

But that's all for the long term. Right now, my focus is on the next two month: no alcohol or drugs except for (chocolaty) caffeine.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:15 pm

I got around to trying Mongoose's suggestion today. I bought a bunch of Lindt Excellence dark chocolate bars. They're 70% cacao (couldn't find any 80%), each 35g. So I ate two of them. I felt a little bit of something, but not much. Equivalent to about half a cup of coffee. Not sure if this is placebo or the real deal. Anyway, to get something around the ball park of 2 to 3 cups of coffee, I'd probably have to eat about 10 of these things. I don't really want to do that.

I bought a couple more, so I might try this out again later in the week.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:59 pm

Tried it again today. 2 chocolate bars. Was feeling a bit groggy at first, now I feel a bit more perked up. I'd say a bit more noticeable than a placebo.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:15 pm

=D> Finally! Glad you are noticing positive, healthier returns.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:56 am

done.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:02 am

So? Results? :mrgreen:
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:25 am

Sorry Wendy, not in the mood right now.

Maybe on the weekend.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:25 pm

I was surprised at how easy it turned out to be to not think of drinking on my high caffeine days. Not to say this never happened, but being committed to no booz or other drugs made it incredibly easy to push those thoughts out of my mind when they arose, making them far and few between. <-- Which goes to reinforce my thoughts about how at least half the battle in overcoming addiction is the resolve to do so. It's one thing to say to yourself "I really ought to get off the drugs but I just don't feel like it right now," and "I really ought to get off the drugs and gosh darn it, I'm gonna do it!" Just being able to say the latter is half the battle--at least half the battle, and if you're lucky like me, the other half will be relatively simple (i.e. in the sense that if your resolve to commit to it is set in stone, pushing thoughts to the contrary out of your mind will almost certainly shut off the urges). Not to mention the fact that one of the effects of caffeine is to increase your will power. Compare this to the urge to eat when you're hungry. Speaking from experience, that's an urge that doesn't just leave your mind just because you've resolved to diet. If you're hungry, you're hungry. <-- That's the body telling you: no, you've got to eat. The urge to drink when I'm highly caffeinated is more like the thought of how much fun I *could* have if I cheated--just this once--but then if that thought is followed up by: not gonna happen, then it pretty much becomes a settled matter, and then the urge just goes away. But hunger pangs don't just go away even if you tell them: not gonna happen. And it's not so much that this makes the urge to eater so much harder to resist--you can exercise the thought "not gonna happen" just as easily every time the urge to eat is felt, but since it happens so frequently and doesn't shut up, that just increases the odds that you'll slip one of those times. Not to mention the fact that if you know you're gonna have to keep telling those urges to STFU, you kinda lose the will to try: it all of a sudden seems to make more sense to shut them up now so that you don't have to deal with them for hours on end.

PERKS TO BEING ON A CAFFEINE ONLY DRUG DIET:

* Get a bit more work done, but not a hell of a lot. Unless you've become completely tolerant to caffeine, it has a tendency to boost your energy and your will power--if you channel all that energy and will power into getting things done, you can check off a lot of items on your todo list. Pot makes you lazy, not wanting to do anything except listen to music. Alcohol too, but for subtly different reasons, and the next day, you're definitely not getting much done for obvious reasons. Ironically, I found that I get more sleep on this caffeine only diet. Yes, I still made Fridays my caffeine days which meant I was up 'til the wee hours of the morning, but I generally felt like going to bed around 1:00AM (usually doing work or posting on ILP until then), whereas my habit on Friday nights would usually consist of getting drunk (usually between 10 and 11 PM), then stoned (usually between midnight and 1), and then I wouldn't be going to bed until 4:00AM. But of course, that comes at the cost of being super tired the next day and having to endure a hangover. Without the booz and drugs, I'm still tired the next day but it's not nearly as bad.

* I save money. Booz are pretty expensive, obviously, especially if you get the urge to go out (which I do).

* Generally happy. Although I try to abstain from caffeine except on Fridays or Saturdays, sometimes I'll cheat and have half a cup or a full cup of coffee (enough to get me by). Usually, these are on days when I'm tired and falling asleep at my desk at work. During the last two months, I've noticed that half a cup to a full cup is generally all I need to perk up my mood and get my brain going--I can think more clearly, I can talk more fluently, I'm a bit more sociable--but all without the caffeine buzz... essentially, feeling normal.

CONS:

* I still need the caffeine to feel like this. Without it, I'm still tired and cranky. This, of course, is the result of caffeine withdrawal, and I know from experience that I can get over it by abstaining for a good week or two. But given that these two months were an experiment in what life is like if limited only to my regular caffeine routine, I had to stick to the routine. So it was generally this: either drudge through fatigue and aching muscles or cheat a little by having 1/2 to 1 cup of coffee for the day.

* No alcohol buzz, no drug high... for obvious reasons.

Take home lesson: I could get used to this--wouldn't be that bad a life--but I know that after 1 to 2 weeks of total caffeine abstinence, life could be a lot better. I know I'm going to miss the fun nights of subjecting myself to a drunken intoxicated stupor--I'll miss those dearly--but I also have to remind myself that these come at a high cost: hangover next day, more fatigue, less work getting done, etc.--almost enough to make the whole thing not worth it. <-- This is the part that I'm going to have to give special attention to. I will never be conditioned to give up the drugs by the negative consequences--the brain doesn't work that way, it only works according to whatever is the most immediate consequence. I get caffeinated, drink booz, get stoned, and experience an immediate pay-off. I go to bed (finally) and wake up the next morning feeling like shit. But the pay-off is experienced first, so it takes priority in conditioning me. That's why it's going to require an extra bit of awareness, an extra bit of resolve, to remind myself that the negative consequences, though they come later, may outweigh the positive, and therefore what's really the best thing for me, what I really want, even just from a utilitarian point of view, is to give up the immediate gratification so as to secure for myself more long-term benefits.

I really think it's gonna have to be all or nothing. Even though I think I could get used to a life of tiny bits of caffeine every now and then (half a cup ever odd day, maybe the occasional full cup), I know myself: it will only lead to a slippery slope--maybe not right away but eventually--I'll end up allowing myself those total caffeine buzz Fridays or Saturdays, and it won't take long for that to become a habit, and then it's just a matter of time before sliding down the next slipper slope--back into drugs and alcohol.

^ So none of that. It's all or nothing for me. Summer of 2018, baby!
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Some Guy in History » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:27 pm

So, what hobby or hobbies did you substitute? You didn't beat addiction, all you did was change what you were addicted to.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:59 pm

Yes, and that's the whole point of this exercise--to attach myself to healthy things, not unhealthy things. The two things which are holding me back in my life are the drugs and my book. If I can get these things done and over with, there will be very little left holding me back. I'll still be addicted to breathing, but that don't hold me back. I'll still be addicted to my children, but they don't hold me back. If I can get myself addicted to extreme sports, paranormal experiences, building my business, not only will those not hold me back, but they will be the very things I want to strive towards.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Some Guy in History » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:16 pm

gib wrote:Yes, and that's the whole point of this exercise--to attach myself to healthy things, not unhealthy things. The two things which are holding me back in my life are the drugs and my book. If I can get these things done and over with, there will be very little left holding me back. I'll still be addicted to breathing, but that don't hold me back. I'll still be addicted to my children, but they don't hold me back. If I can get myself addicted to extreme sports, paranormal experiences, building my business, not only will those not hold me back, but they will be the very things I want to strive towards.


Here's the question, I guess, that comes next, after this following statement: What you call healthy addictions are still to distract your mind from thinking about the things you're running from. That being said, the question: What will you do when years past this point, your book is done, the drugs behind you and the nightmares come back, the thoughts come back, the insecurities, the fears, the overwhelming forces? The fact is that while doing drugs, you are already addicted to extreme sports of a variety; paranormal experiences of a variety, and the continued decimation of your psyche and if you run from them now, when they recur, and they will recur, they will still hold you back at a much more crucial and critical point of your life.

You are addicted beyond breathing, and not just addicted; because if it was just addiction, then walking away from drugs would be just a matter of dealing with withdrawals, but it isn't just addiction because you like the drugs, don't want to quit except you believe that they are ruining your life based on what people tell you. What will you do when it hits you the same while completely sober and isn't just a flashback or a ptsd experience, but the sheer fact that things weren't done with you. You are addicted to the idea that quitting drugs entirely will help you, and in a way, it can, but only if you recognize what its' helping. Separation anxiety, bipolar, anger, fear, pain, temptation. And, did you know that even if you quit, you'll never 100% walk away. You say to attach yourself to healthy things, but even those healthy things can kill. What kills us is often the very same thing we survived with for ages, or the very same thing that cures us. And, it's not like you can just jump ship from the track you're in, with your book at the least. You'll keep pushing your limits to finish it in unhealthy manners until you push through breaking points like I did in my life with my pursuit. Oh, I rush and rush until life's no fun; all I gotta do is live and die, but I rush and rush and don't know why.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:53 pm

Random Factor wrote:Here's the question, I guess, that comes next, after this following statement: What you call healthy addictions are still to distract your mind from thinking about the things you're running from. That being said, the question: What will you do when years past this point, your book is done, the drugs behind you and the nightmares come back, the thoughts come back, the insecurities, the fears, the overwhelming forces? The fact is that while doing drugs, you are already addicted to extreme sports of a variety; paranormal experiences of a variety, and the continued decimation of your psyche and if you run from them now, when they recur, and they will recur, they will still hold you back at a much more crucial and critical point of your life.


I'm not sure what kind of psychological process you're referring to here, so I can't really answer this. In any case, it doesn't sound like the kind of thing that the drugs help. Do you seriously recommend continuing the drugs?

Random Factor wrote:You are addicted beyond breathing, and not just addicted; because if it was just addiction, then walking away from drugs would be just a matter of dealing with withdrawals, but it isn't just addiction because you like the drugs <-- Yeah, that's how addiction works., don't want to quit except you believe that they are ruining your life based on what people tell you. What will you do when it hits you the same while completely sober and isn't just a flashback or a ptsd experience, but the sheer fact that things weren't done with you. Well, RF my friend, things may not be done with me, but at least I know that I'll be able to deal with them with higher energy, better mood, and more confidence in myself. I'm not sure I want to live a demon-free life. You are addicted to the idea that quitting drugs entirely will help you, <-- Yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to do in this thread. and in a way, it can, but only if you recognize what its' helping. Separation anxiety, bipolar, anger, fear, pain, temptation. Boredom, dullness, emptiness. And, did you know that even if you quit, you'll never 100% walk away. You say to attach yourself to healthy things, but even those healthy things can kill. It's a matter of choosing the lesser evil. What kills us is often the very same thing we survived with for ages, or the very same thing that cures us. And, it's not like you can just jump ship from the track you're in, with your book at the least. This thread's been alive since 2013--this is not exactly jumping ship. You'll keep pushing your limits to finish it in unhealthy manners until you push through breaking points like I did in my life with my pursuit. Oh, I rush and rush until life's no fun; all I gotta do is live and die, but I rush and rush and don't know why.


This whole thread, RF, is an experiment. The whole point is to see what the result of a drug-free life are. I'm giving myself that year and a half (or thereabouts) beginning summer 2018. <-- If during that year and a half, I find that everything you say above is right, that quitting the drugs didn't help in the slightest (or made my life worse), that will answer the question, it will be the results I was looking for. I'm doubting your right, but that's the point of experimenting.
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It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Some Guy in History » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:04 pm

gib wrote:
Random Factor wrote:Here's the question, I guess, that comes next, after this following statement: What you call healthy addictions are still to distract your mind from thinking about the things you're running from. That being said, the question: What will you do when years past this point, your book is done, the drugs behind you and the nightmares come back, the thoughts come back, the insecurities, the fears, the overwhelming forces? The fact is that while doing drugs, you are already addicted to extreme sports of a variety; paranormal experiences of a variety, and the continued decimation of your psyche and if you run from them now, when they recur, and they will recur, they will still hold you back at a much more crucial and critical point of your life.


I'm not sure what kind of psychological process you're referring to here, so I can't really answer this. In any case, it doesn't sound like the kind of thing that the drugs help. Do you seriously recommend continuing the drugs?

Random Factor wrote:You are addicted beyond breathing, and not just addicted; because if it was just addiction, then walking away from drugs would be just a matter of dealing with withdrawals, but it isn't just addiction because you like the drugs <-- Yeah, that's how addiction works., don't want to quit except you believe that they are ruining your life based on what people tell you. What will you do when it hits you the same while completely sober and isn't just a flashback or a ptsd experience, but the sheer fact that things weren't done with you. Well, RF my friend, things may not be done with me, but at least I know that I'll be able to deal with them with higher energy, better mood, and more confidence in myself. I'm not sure I want to live a demon-free life. You are addicted to the idea that quitting drugs entirely will help you, <-- Yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to do in this thread. and in a way, it can, but only if you recognize what its' helping. Separation anxiety, bipolar, anger, fear, pain, temptation. Boredom, dullness, emptiness. And, did you know that even if you quit, you'll never 100% walk away. You say to attach yourself to healthy things, but even those healthy things can kill. It's a matter of choosing the lesser evil. What kills us is often the very same thing we survived with for ages, or the very same thing that cures us. And, it's not like you can just jump ship from the track you're in, with your book at the least. This thread's been alive since 2013--this is not exactly jumping ship. You'll keep pushing your limits to finish it in unhealthy manners until you push through breaking points like I did in my life with my pursuit. Oh, I rush and rush until life's no fun; all I gotta do is live and die, but I rush and rush and don't know why.


This whole thread, RF, is an experiment. The whole point is to see what the result of a drug-free life are. I'm giving myself that year and a half (or thereabouts) beginning summer 2018. <-- If during that year and a half, I find that everything you say above is right, that quitting the drugs didn't help in the slightest (or made my life worse), that will answer the question, it will be the results I was looking for. I'm doubting your right, but that's the point of experimenting.



the result of a drug-free life is the same as a life filled with drug use: death. You will experience the same things you have experienced on drugs while sober, but you will experience them differently because you are sober. You will experience some things the same and some things so different as to leave you unable to find the connecting bind and tie to something you know until later on.

You can doubt me all you want, but time WILL tell. It's what I've come to expect of so many stubborn shitheads in the world around me, that I can tell them any truth I want and they will still stubbornly and thick-headed try to prove me wrong even after extensive evidence. Just to, 'see for themselves'. Which is one of the main reasons why we can't have perfection. it's not that we can't reach it; we're too stubborn.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:35 pm

Random Factor wrote:the result of a drug-free life is the same as a life filled with drug use: death. <-- Oh please. :icon-rolleyes: You will experience the same things you have experienced on drugs while sober, but you will experience them differently because you are sober. <-- Thanks captain obvious. You will experience some things the same and some things so different as to leave you unable to find the connecting bind and tie to something you know until later on.

You can doubt me all you want, but time WILL tell. It's what I've come to expect of so many stubborn shitheads in the world around me, that I can tell them any truth I want and they will still stubbornly and thick-headed try to prove me wrong even after extensive evidence. Just to, 'see for themselves'. Which is one of the main reasons why we can't have perfection. it's not that we can't reach it; we're too stubborn.


You do realize that, from my perspective, you're just a dumb schmuck on the internet. You must have some inflated image of yourself to prance around thinking that everyone should bask in your wisdom just because you say so. If you actually had evidence, which you don't, that might help. Since you don't, I've got to collect my own evidence, and that's what I'm doing. Yes, I've got to "see for myself" <-- I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Some Guy in History » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:02 am

gib wrote:
Random Factor wrote:the result of a drug-free life is the same as a life filled with drug use: death. <-- Oh please. :icon-rolleyes: You will experience the same things you have experienced on drugs while sober, but you will experience them differently because you are sober. <-- Thanks captain obvious. You will experience some things the same and some things so different as to leave you unable to find the connecting bind and tie to something you know until later on.

You can doubt me all you want, but time WILL tell. It's what I've come to expect of so many stubborn shitheads in the world around me, that I can tell them any truth I want and they will still stubbornly and thick-headed try to prove me wrong even after extensive evidence. Just to, 'see for themselves'. Which is one of the main reasons why we can't have perfection. it's not that we can't reach it; we're too stubborn.


You do realize that, from my perspective, you're just a dumb schmuck on the internet. You must have some inflated image of yourself to prance around thinking that everyone should bask in your wisdom just because you say so. If you actually had evidence, which you don't, that might help. Since you don't, I've got to collect my own evidence, and that's what I'm doing. Yes, I've got to "see for myself" <-- I wouldn't have it any other way.


I do realize that your perspective is that of an insulted monkey. I didn't insult you, did I? Must have been something you misread and just assumed I insulted you. Must be that I said something you just didn't like. You say the same thing as so many others, that I just expect people to do what I say JUST because I say so and that I expect people to bask in my wisdom. If only you can so many others could actually take back the words in bitterness spoken that they knew were not the truth; if only they and you could have bitten your tongues. All you had to do was ask and I could have given you my fieldwork study on the effects of methamphetamines. I could have gone into detail about my own sobriety, my dabblings with marijuana, etcetera. I could have described each experience I had, how I experienced it while going through it and what I learned when looking back on that with new experience. I could have gone above and beyond, if you had only asked with the intent to sincerely listen and take to heart. I was speaking of people in general, and meant no disrespect by calling them stubborn and thick-headed. It can be a good thing, when properly used.

And, you know, for all that I am and all that I do, I could easily have an inflated image of self. But, you are right, I completely just prance around just like trixie; just like you.

And good for you... you go see for yourself and you go live it because you haven't experienced it for yourself, disregarding whatever you might hear about it.

What really got you the most was the deflating of self-image you had when I gut-punched you with the truth about you not wanting to quit, only that you want to quit because it scares you some times, but you like and love the drugs beyond the addiction, beyond the habit. Go ahead and quit like every time you didn't get your fix in time, go through the withdrawals; by all means, live your life, but don't sit here and get pissy just because I respond to what you said publicly with knowledge and experience. Don't make me smack you upside the head. Actually, forget that. Make me smack you upside the head, it'll be good for you.
Last edited by Some Guy in History on Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Some Guy in History » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:08 am

I love how you make fun of what I said about death being the end result no matter what. Why are you laughing and rolling your eyes? You think I'm being dramatic when I'm just being blunt and to the point? You will have to face your own mortality eventually and deal with your fears. I do know what you're running from beyond just death, beyond staring it down. I do know that you, like so many others, loathe coming to confession. You think I found it easy when I hit my knees and found myself, even desiring to do so, confessing things I never actually confessed in the heart of myself, never told a single soul; never thought about with intent or focus. To name them one by one as they came. Do you think I find the truth easy to tell or easy to accept? If you do, it's because it has become so for me through years of effort. And still, I refuse to speak lies. I do enough of that unintentionally. I know your arrogance and pride and it will be your downfall. You'll go back to the drugs, even if you quit for a couple months. You'll hit a point where you'll think, just one or two hits, or just this one time shouldn't hurt; I'm doing so well.

I want you to ask me how I know this to be true. I want you to ask me just how bad tobacco withdrawals are. I want you to ask me how I'm doing with methamphetamines and I want you to know that I do just up and walk away from them when I choose to and even easier when I don't have the choice but to. That I can face withdrawals from that that are comparable to 103 degree fevers that nearly killed me years ago that I just brush off and sweat out and still move around as if it's just a passing thing, like food poisoning.

All any of it is is pain tolerance. Run, run little horse, but there is no escape, there is no hiding.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:25 am

Random Factor wrote:I do realize that your perspective is that of an insulting monkey. I didn't insult you, did I? Must have been something you misread and just assumed I insulted you. Must be that I said something you just didn't like. Random, you're like a little tease. Here's you: You're stubborn... oh, what's that? You're insulted? Well, guess what? I meant it as a compliment. Ha! Ha! Now you're judgemental, you make assumptions. Ha! Ha! Ha! You say the same thing as so many others, that I just expect people to do what I say JUST because I say so and that I expect people to bask in my wisdom. <-- Gee, I wonder why they say that. If only you can so many others could actually take back the words in bitterness spoken that they knew were not the truth; if only they and you could have bitten your tongues. All you had to do was ask and I could have given you my fieldwork study on the effects of methamphetamines. I could have gone into detail about my own sobriety, my dabblings with marijuana, etcetera. I could have described each experience I had, how I experienced it while going through it and what I learned when looking back on that with new experience. I could have gone above and beyond, if you had only asked with the intent to sincerely listen and take to heart. That would tell me about you, not me. And I don't do methamphetamines. I was speaking of people in general, and meant no disrespect by calling them stubborn and thick-headed. It can be a good thing, when properly used.


You: black people suck. Oh, what's that? You're offended because you happen to be a black person? Well, I was talking about black people in general, not you. And besides, sucking can be a good thing when properly used.

Random Factor wrote:And, you know, for all that I am and all that I do, I could easily have an inflated image of self. But, you are right, I completely just prance around just like trixie; just like you.


Prance around doing what? That's the question. At least I "prance around" doing real philosophy. You just prance around bitching and moaning about how you're so misjudged.

Random Factor wrote:What really got you the most was the deflating of self-image you had when I gut-punched you with the truth about you not wanting to quit, only that you want to quit because it scares you some times, but you like and love the drugs beyond the addiction, beyond the habit. <-- I don't even know what that means: liking the drugs beyond the addiction, beyond the habit. That a part of me likes the drugs and another part wants to quit is a no brainer. It describes pretty much every drug user's experience who wants to quit. Another glorious strike by Captain Obvious! Go ahead and quit like every time you didn't get your fix in time, go through the withdrawals; by all means, live your life, but don't sit here and get pissy just because I respond to what you said publicly with knowledge and experience. <-- I'm getting pissy? This whole thing started because you got pissy (as usual) after I expressed my doubts that you were right. Don't make me smack you upside the head. Actually, forget that. Make me smack you upside the head, it'll be good for you.


You go ahead and try. Reach through the internet and do it.

Random Factor wrote:I love how you make fun of what I said about death being the end result no matter what. <-- Yeah, because it wasn't even remotely relevant to the point of my question. Unless you're saying I'm going to die during the year and a half of compete abstenance, that doesn't shed any light at all on the difference in experience between a drug-free life and a drug-filled one. Why are you laughing and rolling your eyes? You think I'm being dramatic when I'm just being blunt and to the point? <-- No, you are being dramatic; you're a whiny little drama queen. You will have to face your own mortality eventually and deal with your fears. I do know what you're running from beyond just death, beyond staring it down. Do you now? I do know that you, like so many others, loathe coming to confession. You think I found it easy when I hit my knees and found myself, even desiring to do so, confessing things I never actually confessed in the heart of myself, never told a single soul; never thought about with intent or focus. To name them one by one as they came. Do you think I find the truth easy to tell or easy to accept? If you do, it's because it has become so for me through years of effort. And still, I refuse to speak lies. I do enough of that unintentionally. I know your arrogance and pride and it will be your downfall. You'll go back to the drugs, even if you quit for a couple months. You'll hit a point where you'll think, just one or two hits, or just this one time shouldn't hurt; I'm doing so well.


HA! Now I know you don't know a thing about me.

Random Factor wrote:I want you to ask me how I know this to be true. I want you to ask me just how bad tobacco withdrawals are. I want you to ask me how I'm doing with methamphetamines and I want you to know that I do just up and walk away from them when I choose to and even easier when I don't have the choice but to. That I can face withdrawals from that that are comparable to 103 degree fevers that nearly killed me years ago that I just brush off and sweat out and still move around as if it's just a passing thing, like food poisoning.


There are no withdrawal symptoms from marijuana or alcohol unless you're a chronic user, which I'm not. Caffeine withdrawal is a few days of fatigue, sluggish thought, and irritability (basically being cranky). <-- That I've been through many times. Your story about enduring withdrawal doesn't impress me.

Random Factor wrote:All any of it is is pain tolerance. Run, run little horse, but there is no escape, there is no hiding.


Run from what? Does this have anything to do with that big secret you have, the one you claim we're all in denial about, the one that, when asked, you won't reveal?

^ You are a little tease, aren't you? If you've got something to say, come out and say it. Do just sit there and tell me "I want you to ask me blah, blah, blah."
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Some Guy in History » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:27 pm

I meant 'insulted monkey'. I swear that the tech team on this forum has tech I've seen before in being able to change what someone says after they post it.

Anyway, I'm tired of this song and dance, as I've said and told to others. Here's the thing, you respond too much to the insults that aren't even insults but bait. You bite the bait too much and fail to actually respond to the meat of it and then, when you do, you respond to it with tinges of negativity, pessimism, etc. which is destroying the world and you know it, but can't help yourself, which is another feedback loop, another back and forth like I exampled recently in Kropotkin's thread, 'new theory of blah, blah and blah'. You need to work on breaking that feedback loop otherwise you're going to be doomed to responding these same ways every time until you do, which is a downward spiraling self-fulfilling prophecy of the worst sort. Now, if you're going that way on purpose, then I understand that you have a glimmer of an idea or two which could be the beginnings of genius or madness and it is a good thing they go hand in hand. But, I do think the few going that way on purpose with a reason are a few and all the others that might get caught up in it are just the ones that get caught up in it. I'm personally tired of seeing too many people focus more on the insults which shouldn't even be insulting and hone in on those until they're all that they see; tired of seeing people trap themselves in that shit and I'm getting to the point where I'm able to see it and recognize it and address it. That's learning and growing over time through so much shit and I take personal solace in that at the least instead of focusing on how long it took to get to this point. It's frustrating as Hell.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:06 am

Random Factor wrote:I meant 'insulted monkey'. I swear that the tech team on this forum has tech I've seen before in being able to change what someone says after they post it.


No, that was called a typo... and you didn't have to explain it.

Random Factor wrote:Anyway, I'm tired of this song and dance, as I've said and told to others. Oh, you'll be back for more. Here's the thing, you respond too much to the insults that aren't even insults but bait. They're both. You bite the bait too much and fail to actually respond to the meat of it and then, <-- BREAK... why wouldn't I take the bate? What is there to be afraid of? So far I've seen no meat... OKAY GO ON --> when you do, you respond to it with tinges of negativity, pessimism, etc. <-- BREAK... It's called trolling... CONTINUE --> which is destroying the world and you know it, but can't help yourself, which is another feedback loop, another back and forth like I exampled recently in Kropotkin's thread, 'new theory of blah, blah and blah'. <-- Finally, a period! You need to work on breaking that feedback loop <-- Don't tell me what to do. otherwise you're going to be doomed to responding these same ways every time until you do, which is a downward spiraling self-fulfilling prophecy of the worst sort. Not in my experience. Now, if you're going that way on purpose, then I understand that you have a glimmer of an idea or two which could be the beginnings of genius or madness <-- The beginnings?!?! and it is a good thing they go hand in hand. Like Rick Sanchez? But, I do think the few going that way on purpose with a reason are a few Yeah, there's only about 4 of us in the world, 5 tops. and all the others that might get caught up in it are just the ones that get caught up in it. I'm personally tired of seeing too many people focus more on the insults which shouldn't even be insulting and hone in on those until they're all that they see; What are you looking for, really? The freedom to insult people without comebacks? Are you looking for a saint? A sucker for punishment? A masochist? tired of seeing people trap themselves in that shit and I'm getting to the point where I'm able to see it and recognize it and address it. I wouldn't worry about me ('cause I know you do); you are simply an opportunity for trolling. I get excited when you come along... fresh meat. :evilfun: Insulted? Not really? Devious? Mischievous? Yeah. That's learning and growing over time through so much shit and I take personal solace in that at the least instead of focusing on how long it took to get to this point. It's frustrating as Hell.


Aaawww, need a tissue, Freddy? :-({|=
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Some Guy in History » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:47 pm

gib wrote:
Random Factor wrote:I meant 'insulted monkey'. I swear that the tech team on this forum has tech I've seen before in being able to change what someone says after they post it.


No, that was called a typo... and you didn't have to explain it.

Random Factor wrote:Anyway, I'm tired of this song and dance, as I've said and told to others. Oh, you'll be back for more. Here's the thing, you respond too much to the insults that aren't even insults but bait. They're both. You bite the bait too much and fail to actually respond to the meat of it and then, <-- BREAK... why wouldn't I take the bate? What is there to be afraid of? So far I've seen no meat... OKAY GO ON --> when you do, you respond to it with tinges of negativity, pessimism, etc. <-- BREAK... It's called trolling... CONTINUE --> which is destroying the world and you know it, but can't help yourself, which is another feedback loop, another back and forth like I exampled recently in Kropotkin's thread, 'new theory of blah, blah and blah'. <-- Finally, a period! You need to work on breaking that feedback loop <-- Don't tell me what to do. otherwise you're going to be doomed to responding these same ways every time until you do, which is a downward spiraling self-fulfilling prophecy of the worst sort. Not in my experience. Now, if you're going that way on purpose, then I understand that you have a glimmer of an idea or two which could be the beginnings of genius or madness <-- The beginnings?!?! and it is a good thing they go hand in hand. Like Rick Sanchez? But, I do think the few going that way on purpose with a reason are a few Yeah, there's only about 4 of us in the world, 5 tops. and all the others that might get caught up in it are just the ones that get caught up in it. I'm personally tired of seeing too many people focus more on the insults which shouldn't even be insulting and hone in on those until they're all that they see; What are you looking for, really? The freedom to insult people without comebacks? Are you looking for a saint? A sucker for punishment? A masochist? tired of seeing people trap themselves in that shit and I'm getting to the point where I'm able to see it and recognize it and address it. I wouldn't worry about me ('cause I know you do); you are simply an opportunity for trolling. I get excited when you come along... fresh meat. :evilfun: Insulted? Not really? Devious? Mischievous? Yeah. That's learning and growing over time through so much shit and I take personal solace in that at the least instead of focusing on how long it took to get to this point. It's frustrating as Hell.


Aaawww, need a tissue, Freddy? :-({|=


It wasn't a typo and did need to explain it, because it originally read 'insulting monkey' instead of 'insulted monkey', which is a huge difference in meaning where one is more insulting than the other. And, when such a 'typo' is made on my part, it's usually one such as that that isn't a typo at all.

Gib, I'm going to tear you a new one and you're going to hate me. You're going to get sucked right back into drugs. They're going to drag you back down. The alcohol will consume you. Your book will fail because of change of direction, you will simply give up on it and walk away. Your attention will wander as you learn more and more and 'see what the world is like' which will further serve to cement in your mind that every bit of the book you've been writing was meaningless and full of shit. You'll die surrounded by friends that aren't friends, family that isn't family and you will know what it's like to truly be alone, by that time, bitter and jaded, hateful and mean. In the afterlife, you will become worse and you'll go down a trail of evil and insanity until you get to a point where something, not me, comes along and smacks the fuck out of you, which isn't going to fix you or make you less bitter, jaded, hateful and mean. It will further push your into those things and you'll keep getting hammered like an unwanted woody.

Your life is a mess, you're barely holding it together; barely hanging on by a thread. You keep slipping and know it, are striving to keep your head above water in a world that you know is waiting to eat you alive and you don't have it in you to overcome your downward spiral into self-fulfilling prophecy and where, for some, saying these things would galvanize them into actually succeeding, saying these things to you will destroy you the rest of the way. There is no deception or falsity spoken here this day or in this thread on my behalf. You just weren't doing a good enough job of making yourself fail and you really picked the wrong motherfucker to step to with trolling. So, excuse me while I tear you down the rest of the way and don't expect things to happen right away. It's a long, slow burn that will take years and all of a sudden you'll find yourself in too far above your head, lost in the drugs, discarded papers and works scattering as you chase the high and the addiction. All because you never had it in you in the first place.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:08 pm

Random Factor wrote:It wasn't a typo and did need to explain it, Please, let's dwell on this more. because it originally read 'insulting monkey' instead of 'insulted monkey', which is a huge difference in meaning where one is more insulting than the other. <-- I get it, you wanted to be crystal clear that I wasn't able to insult you; that's important to you. And, when such a 'typo' is made on my part, it's usually one such as that that isn't a typo at all.


A typo that isn't a typo, huh?

Random Factor wrote:Gib, I'm going to tear you a new one and you're going to hate me. I'm shaking. You're going to get sucked right back into drugs. They're going to drag you back down. The alcohol will consume you. Your book will fail because of change of direction, you will simply give up on it and walk away. <-- That's sort of what I'm doing now. Your attention will wander as you learn more and more and 'see what the world is like' which will further serve to cement in your mind that every bit of the book you've been writing was meaningless and full of shit. You'll die surrounded by friends that aren't friends, family that isn't family and you will know what it's like to truly be alone, by that time, bitter and jaded, hateful and mean. In the afterlife, you will become worse and you'll go down a trail of evil and insanity until you get to a point where something, not me, comes along and smacks the fuck out of you, which isn't going to fix you or make you less bitter, jaded, hateful and mean. It will further push your into those things and you'll keep getting hammered like an unwanted woody.


You saw all that in your crystal ball, huh?

Random Factor wrote:Your life is a mess, you're barely holding it together; barely hanging on by a thread. You keep slipping and know it, are striving to keep your head above water in a world that you know is waiting to eat you alive and you don't have it in you to overcome your downward spiral into self-fulfilling prophecy and where, for some, saying these things would galvanize them into actually succeeding, saying these things to you will destroy you the rest of the way. There is no deception or falsity spoken here this day or in this thread on my behalf. You just weren't doing a good enough job of making yourself fail and you really picked the wrong motherfucker to step you with trolling. You're trying to troll me? So, excuse me while I tear you down the rest of the way and don't expect things to happen right away. It's a long, slow burn that will take years and all of a sudden you'll find yourself in too far above your head, lost in the drugs, discarded papers and works scattering as you chase the high and the addiction. All because you never had it in you in the first place.


Weak, man, weak.

Personally, I think you're projecting. ^ This almost sounds like a cry for help.
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It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

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gib
little shitheaded Buddha
 
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Some Guy in History » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:03 pm

Look at the tough man pretend to be tougher than he actually is like so many other broken males. Isn't he cute?

Image
Image

As spirits roam the neighborhoods at night, Let loose upon the Earth till it be light...

Halloween wraps fear in innocence, As though it were a slightly sour sweet. Let terror, then, be turned into a treat...
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Some Guy in History
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