2 months--no drugs or alcohol

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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:32 pm

This 2018 July 1st, Gib?

4) Take acting classes

I took Acting 101 at a community college to get over my crazy fear of public speaking where my mind goes blank. Mentally freezing up hurts my ability to interact and debate in groups. I aced the class, but my overall fear remains with some improvement though, my mind only goes partially blank now (LOL!).

5) Talk to WendyDarling about astral projections

Oh snap, I'd forgotten about your tutorial. I'll get to crackin' on my instruction manual for you. The most important aspect of astral traveling is having an energized positive disposition/outlook. You need a great deal of feeling both physically and emotionally good.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:04 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:All right. So these past five years your main focus and GOAL was NOT about getting off the drugs and alcohol. Yes and no. You were simply experimenting. I still do not get the reasonableness of it all but I am perhaps coming from a place where you have not been ~~ or perhaps you have. Did alcoholism touch your life as you were growing up? You do not have to answer that if you do not want to.
The bottom line is that you have the freedom to come to consciousness in whichever way you choose.


My dad was a bit of an alcoholic, but not a drunk. He liked to have a glass, maybe two, of cognac every second night or so, or sometimes a glass of wine. He was very rarely drunk. The only time I really remember him being drunk was at a Halloween party at our house. He invited all his work colleagues. It was fun. One of his friends was dressed like a monk, and my dad knelt down in front of him pretending to confess: "Oh please father, forgive me for I have sinned." <-- Or some shit like that. He was joking around, of course. It took me several years to get over the scars.

Arcturus Descending wrote:It would still not have made any difference to me, gib. I still see no logic in it considering what alcohol and drug addiction can do to lives, what it did to my life. That is my right. Of course, you have the right to live your life the way you choose but people also have the right to disagree with your way of thinking but it is still your way of thinking. I am coming from a place of experience and knowledge though I can understand your choosing to deny that. You really have no idea *where I live* at my core or where I *lived* at my core.


That's fine because this thread isn't about you.

Arcturus Descending wrote:
gib wrote:Also, I'm conditioning myself to be extra sensitive to criticisms/attacks on my approach, and I'm doing it on purpose. I'm conditioning myself to take pride in my approach, to put all my value into it (that's why it will work), which therefore means that criticisms/attacks against it are going to sting more. It's called the migration of value. I talked about it above. You can search it.
Doesn't that seem a bit counter-intuitive? To you, maybe.
If you truly believe and value what you are about then why give way to such negativity? It's called choice Wouldn't questioning what others say be a more reasonable thing to do and then afterwards, if you actually disagree, just affirm and validate yourself.

Would that turn off the 'insult' switch in my brain?

We cannot, ourselves, always be *impartial* judges and witnesses to ourselves. Can we, gib?


I can be a lot more impartial than you ever could.

You're talking as though it's completely unnatural to be insulted when our personal values are attacked. What you're talking about can be done but it's not an alternative to being insulted, it's done despite being insulted. Given that, one can still say "I was insulted" while affirming and validating one's self. And furthermore, one can still respond.

Arcturus Descending wrote:...to the point where you will make the conscious decision to STOP drinking and drugging, continue in an ongoing way to get help and to give the gift of that promise which you made to your children to stop by July 1st? Yes, it's already done (the decision, I mean, not the drinking and the drugging).
One day at a time of course or one hour at a time.


Arcturus Descending wrote:What was the most important thing which you learned about yourself over the last five years insofar as your addictions go and how it might help you in your journey into sobriety ~~ in case I missed it somewhere?


Oh, I've learned a ton over the past 5 years, but if I were to pick the most important, it might be this:

What it means to take care of myself. I used to think taking caring of yourself meant fending for yourself, doing what you want instead of what others want you to do. I essentially thought of it as doing whatever you want. But now I think of taking care of myself as taking care of my future. Thinking long term. Which sometimes means not doing whatever I want in the moment.

Arcturus Descending wrote:Hmmm...the first attempt? I may actually be wrong in what I am thinking here but is it a good idea to think of it as an attempt? You're reading waaay too much into it. Your mindset right there means that you realize you may fail. Of course, that is possible. There are setbacks and relapses. I think it is important to see that ahead of time. As I said, I may be wrong but considering it as an *attempt*? Is that healthy? I do not know. It was just a thought.
I suppose that it IS important to give ourselves permission to have failed, to be loving toward ourselves through it and then get back up and continue on...and not to give up on ourselves.


I was being clever with words (er, I thought I was 8-[ ); previously, I was trying to correct your misinterpretation as "failed attempts"; I thought calling July 1 a "first attempt" just flowed. But you're right, it's not an attempt, it's a decision.

Arcturus Descending wrote:Other times it can be just the opposite, gib. We take both of them.
What are some of the things which you have done in the past, during your two-month stints, to keep yourself off the alcohol and drugs, when you were in the throes of boredom and dullness? Just making the decision seemed to work.
Where do you find your bliss, gib?


That's the 64 million dollar question, isn't it? How to be happy without the drugs. This is one of the more damaging things drugs have done to me. My happiness--pleasure--has become intricately connected with the drugs. It's like getting to experience what it's like to be a billionary and then having to go back to making a mediocre living. Small things which used to bring you pleasure, like seeing a movie, seem pittiful afterwards. Hopefully, that will fade with time.

I'm also going to ask the therapist if he (or she) can refer me to an energy specialist. I swear that if my body could just generate a bit more energy, or my brain work just a little faster, I could have happiness set on auto-pilot. And it wouldn't have to be intense happiness. I think I could be satisfied feeling like I had a couple shots of tequila and a cup of Joe... all day, every day.

Actually, I lied. The decision to abstain from drugs/alcohol during my 2 month stints wasn't the only thing motivating me. Posting in this thread helped as well. It's another one of these psychological tricks. Therapists recommend announcing your commitments. The more people you tell, the more likely you will be to stick to your commitment.

But other than that, I didn't try anything. Rather, I just looked ahead to the day when I could drink or do drugs again. I just endured the two months. Taking at least two years (or forever) off drugs and alcohol is forcing me to look for alternatives.

Arcturus Descending wrote:All of these things do sound interesting.
Do you believe that in the midst of doing all of these things you will not feel the need to drink? Well, sure I will. The question is, how strongly. I know that from my experience of quitting smoking, the urge hasn't been that strong. Eeevery once in a while, I see someone smoking or a full cigarette lying there that hasn't been smoked, and I get a slight urge... but even that's short lived and I just move on with my day.
At some point, you may get tired of them or they may not offer you the excitement which you seem to need. This is possible, you know. What then?
Again perhaps I am wrong but it is good to be prepared.


Ok, fine:

gib wrote:1) Therapy

2) Take a Dale Carnegie course

3) Get a tattoo

4) Take acting classes

5) Talk to WendyDarling about astral projections

6) Talk to my good friend Rita about other forms of spirituality

7) Get exorcised

8) Join AA <-- There, you happy?


Arcturus Descending wrote:Maybe you need to take things a bit slow. Allow yourself to be a bit bored with life. Anyway, you will be talking with a therapist. Perhaps it might be a good idea to find one who has been a reformed alcoholic for years but I may be wrong.
I am quite aware of how very often I have been wrong but if you use this against me, my wrath shall be visited upon you, gib. lol Only kidding.


I can deal with a bit of boredom, just not depression.

Arcturus Descending wrote:How often do you feel you will see a therapist? Proly once a month. AA meetings give you the opportunity to *be there* when you are feeling down and shaky...if or when that happens. That is the beauty of the meetings. There will be like people there who have experienced what you have and will want to help you. You will need a strong sense of inter-connectedness.


Tell you what, Arc. Let's compromise. I'll think about joining AA if I fall off the horse after July 1. I'll be forced to ask myself: what have I got left? And I'll remember you: well, Arc did suggest AA. What have I got to lose now? For now, however, I want to give myself a chance to do it on my own. <-- That's something I can take pride in, and pride fuels my will to succeed. The opportunity (and the vanity) to say I did it on my own.

Arcturus Descending wrote:I would be very interested to know how this comes about. I was going to make a negative comment being the skeptic but I figure that I will just shut my mouth and wait to see what you have to say about it.


TBH, I expect it to be a big nothing burger. But I think I owe myself this just as a formality.

Arcturus Descending wrote:So, what do you think will *actually* be the first thing you say to him/her after the initial pleasantries have been done away with.


I don't know. I'm not going to actually adhere to a script (although I have a few lines prepared); I know what I want out of therapy though, so I know the ideas I want to get across. I probably *will* say "help me be awesome" (as a joke) but I'll use that as a segway into the details of what I want out of therapy.

Keep in mind, however, that finding substitutes for the drugs is only part of what I want out of therapy; I also want to pick up my software business and I think I'll need a therapist to help me gain the skills needed to run a business (hence: influence people rather than be influenced). This is all part of a larger goal to improve myself. I feel like July 1 is a deadline I'm giving myself to grow up. I feel like I know what I need to do to improve myself (like get therapy) and I'm just waiting for July 1. I know I can be like a superhero if I really wanted, but I will need a coach (therapist) to help me get there. I'll definitely lean on the therapist to help me find substitutes to the drugs, but I feel like I have to get them out of my life first before I even start to kick this into high gear with the help of a therapist. <-- That's the general gist of what I want to say.

Arcturus Descending wrote:Does this mean that come July 1st, you believe that you will not need the therapist?

Won't 'need' one per se, just going to leverage the help of one.

I just deleted the sentence which I had typed here and I will ask you this instead: In what way do you mean "that there's nothing wrong with me"? Can you explain that attitude and how it will serve you?


Think of it as digging myself out of a hole. I'm in the negatives right now, below ground zero. But I'm climbing out. Once I stand on solid ground, I will consider myself "OK". <-- That's July 1. But OK only means nothing wrong with me. It doesn't mean anything great. Standing on ground zero is not the same as soaring through the sky, and I want to leverage the help of a therapist for that. I want to be more than OK. I want more than for nothing to be wrong with me, I want to be awesome!

Arcturus Descending wrote:Do you believe that of July 1st you will be reformed and healed?
Ah, no. I think that you are much too intelligent and aware to believe that.


I believe that I will no longer be able to fault myself for anything. Right now, I can't deny that the drugs and alcohol are a bad choice and that I am choosing. <-- I can (and should) blame myself. Although I will continue to have flaws even after July 1, I think the majority of them (or the main ones) are just a part of who I am (ADD for example), and so I won't blame myself for having them. I took the MMPI a couple years ago, and there were three main findings: drug abuse and alcoholism, ADD, and self-doubt. <-- I'm not worried about any of those. The drugs and alcohol will go July 1, ADD is just a part of who I am and so I don't really consider it a flaw, and self-doubt, if it remains after July 1, will be an illusion (like fearing nothing but fear itself).

Arcturus Descending wrote:Why do you feel you want to be awesome? What will that do for you? <-- Did you really just ask that? #-o
Also, do you not, in some ways, already feel that you are awesome or capable of being awesome, in a humble way, :evilfun: albeit you have these problems?


Capable? Yes! That I am awesome? Depends on if I'm caffinated/drunk/stoned. That's what the drugs did for me (mind you it was often an illusion). It's made it difficult for me to feel that way without them. Feeling awesome is a substitute for drugs. If I'm lucky, this lack of feeling awesome will just fade with time.

Arcturus Descending wrote:Hmmm...Will your mind also have the humility to admit that you cannot go it alone and that it will take a lot of time, patience, energy, struggle, honesty, exorcising of any (unsupernatural) :evilfun: daemons and stick-to-itive-ness?


Ha! Ha! Stick-to-itive-ness. :lol:

Time, patience, energy, honesty, exorcising of demons... yes. Cannot do it alone? I wouldn't mind sharing the journey towards awesomehood with someone, a special person who knows how to support me in my goals, but I just want July 1 all for myself. As I said, it's a matter of pride, and pride is fuel. After that, I might relax the intensity (depending on if I think I still need it or not).

Arcturus Descending wrote:lol
I do not know, gib. You may want to ask all of the men with tattoos of their girlfriends' faces or names who they were so obsessed with but who have long since gone the way into history.


I don't think you can compare relationships to drug addictions. Sometimes it's healthy to end a relationship. Sometimes people change and they have to go their separate ways. I don't think there's very many situations in which it's healthy to become an addict.

Besides, I'm not expecting the tattoo to be a guarantee. Nothing I listed above is a guarantee. But I definitely think it will help (and besides, I'd just like to have a tattoo).

Arcturus Descending wrote:I think that imagining the faces of your two smiling happy children might be by far a much stronger imagery to hold onto to solidify your commitment but then I am thinking as a Mom.


The imagery of salvation works for me. It's not just an image, it's a drawing that I created. Though it may sound bad, I haven't drawn any images of my children. I'm letting you know some of the multiple dimensions to this journey I'm on, but there are other dimensions I haven't told you. The imagery of salvation has to do with demonic experiences I've had, which are tied to my drug use, and have a lot to do with why I'm approaching my drug problem the way I'm approaching it.

Arcturus Descending wrote:I have a little tattoo. Anyway, at what point would you get tattooed to ACTUALLY symbolize that you HAVE earned it? Prior to July 1st or how many months past that time when you become conscious of the fact that you indeed earned it or are earning it?


Shortly after July 1; I'm cocky, Arc. I actually believe that by July 1, I will be drug and alcohol free. I don't need to give myself time to see if that's true. July 1 will be the day I earn a tattoo.

And besides, the tattoo is instrumental. It will keep me from falling off the horse just as much as it will symbolize my not falling off the horse.

Arcturus Descending wrote:The journey which you will be on to get off and stay off of the alcohol and drugs WILL BE part of an exorcism though perhaps a different one than you mean.
You really appear to be *raring to go* gib. You need to slow down but you probably will not.


Remind me of that after July 1, Arc. Raring to go? Yes. I feel like I need to rev myself up in order to make July 1 significant and meaningful, like getting a running start in order to jump over a chasm (in fact, you might even think of the past 5 years as backing up in order to get a good run). After July 1, however, I may switch gears depending on how my life is going. I'm not running to win a marathon, just to make that initial leap.

Arcturus Descending wrote:That is okay gib and I appreciate the apology. You did not hurt my feelings at all. I just questioned your response.
You may consider me hereby validated.
:angelic-blueglow:


Excellent! :D

We seem to have switched to discussion mode, not trolling mode. ;)
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:05 am

WendyDarling wrote:This 2018 July 1st, Gib?


No, the other one. ;)

WendyDarling wrote:I took Acting 101 at a community college to get over my crazy fear of public speaking where my mind goes blank. Mentally freezing up hurts my ability to interact and debate in groups. I aced the class, but my overall fear remains with some improvement though, my mind only goes partially blank now (LOL!).


Yeah, speaking in front of crowds is one thing. Spontaneously thinking of witty things to say is another.

Do you think the environment has anything to do with it? Acting classes might provide a more comfortable environment, whereas speaking in front of crowds feels more like "the real world".

WendyDarling wrote:Oh snap, I'd forgotten about your tutorial. I'll get to crackin' on my instruction manual for you. The most important aspect of astral traveling is having an energized positive disposition/outlook. You need a great deal of feeling both physically and emotionally good.


That could be a problem. :lol:
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
- Rick Sanchez

That's earth therapy. You might as well ask a horse to fix a merry-go-round. I mean, he'll try his best, but mostly, he's just gonna get horrified.
- Rick Sanchez

You're young, you have your whole life ahead of you, and your anal cavity is still taut yet malleable.
- Rick Sanchez
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:00 pm

gib,

Thank you for sharing about your father, gib.

That's fine because this thread isn't about you.


Basically, this is correct. We are in here having a discussion so what does this mean? I would suggest that it mostly means that what is being said will be about you and at other times will be about whoever else is in here doing the *sharing* or the *speaking*. When I made the thread about me (as you put it) I was trying to give you some insight into my reasoning based on my history.

We cannot, ourselves, always be *impartial* judges and witnesses to ourselves. Can we, gib?

I can be a lot more impartial than you ever could.


You mean to say that you can be a lot more *impartial* where your self is concerned? That is what I said or asked you.
We are often more impartial with others than we can be with ourselves.
I wonder if it is far easier to see others as being awesome than it is to see ourselves in that same way albeit I do not think that our main focus in life is to concentrate on being awesome. But that is an individual thing.

Aside from that, you cannot actually make a statement like that because you are not a fly on the wall of my entire life.

But give me examples, gib, where you *believe* that you are more of an impartial person than I am.

You're talking as though it's completely unnatural to be insulted when our personal values are attacked. What you're talking about can be done but it's not an alternative to being insulted, it's done despite being insulted. .


No, I suppose that it is not. It may be part of our natural instinct toward self preservation in different ways.

Given that, one can still say "I was insulted" while affirming and validating one's self. And furthermore, one can still respond.


Ah, but wouldn't it be so much easier if we were capable of just letting it all go. What would be the secret to that? Knowing ourselves and what we are about and just letting ourselves flow like water ..

Oh, I've learned a ton over the past 5 years, but if I were to pick the most important, it might be this:

What it means to take care of myself. I used to think taking caring of yourself meant fending for yourself, doing what you want instead of what others want you to do.


I do not necessarily see anything wrong with that. There can be a sense of personal freedom there unless one has to walk all over others to do it. The right kind of self ~ ishness is an art.

But now I think of taking care of myself as taking care of my future. Thinking long term. Which sometimes means not doing whatever I want in the moment.


I think that the above is true too. But I also think that a part of that is doing what one must do in the *here and now* like going to AA meetings :mrgreen: and seeing a therapist. I do not see us as going from A to Z in one giant leap.


I suppose that it IS important to give ourselves permission to have failed, to be loving toward ourselves through it and then get back up and continue on...and not to give up on ourselves.

I was being clever with words (er, I thought I was 8-[ ); previously, I was trying to correct your misinterpretation as "failed attempts"; I thought calling July 1 a "first attempt" just flowed. But you're right, it's not an attempt, it's a decision.


I really do not know if I am right or wrong here. I guess it depends on the one who is looking. But in one sense, looking at it as an attempt just might set one up for failure. Again, I could be wrong. But I like where it can be a *decision*.


Where do you find your bliss, gib?

That's the 64 million dollar question, isn't it? How to be happy without the drugs. This is one of the more damaging things drugs have done to me. My happiness--pleasure--has become intricately connected with the drugs. It's like getting to experience what it's like to be a billionary and then having to go back to making a mediocre living. Small things which used to bring you pleasure, like seeing a movie, seem pittiful afterwards. Hopefully, that will fade with time.


If you could have more of happiness or meaningfulness in your life, which would you choose?

I'm also going to ask the therapist if he (or she) can refer me to an energy specialist. I swear that if my body could just generate a bit more energy, or my brain work just a little faster,


I have never heard of an energy specialist so I googled it. It was not what I expected...nothing that has anything to do with rejuvenating yourself. The way I look at it, energy begets energy. Do you like to walk?


I could have happiness set on auto-pilot. And it wouldn't have to be intense happiness. I think I could be satisfied feeling like I had a couple shots of tequila and a cup of Joe... all day, every day.


We do need to be happy sometimes in order to want to survive but I think that you focus too much on wanting to be happy. You might find it easier if you do not look for it.
Is *following one's bliss* necessarily about being happy all of the time or finding and doing what makes life more meaningful to us?

Perhaps if you would take the time to consider all of the human beings out there, especially children, who are usually never happy but struggle everyday of their life, even to have a bit of food, you might find a balance and not *need* to feel happy or be happy.

Therapists recommend announcing your commitments. The more people you tell, the more likely you will be to stick to your commitment.


I get that but then again, how would people know for the most part whether you have stuck to your commitment?

Taking at least two years (or forever) off drugs and alcohol is forcing me to look for alternatives.


https://www.soberjulie.com/2012/10/yest ... -tomorrow/

Ok, fine:

8)[/color] Join AA <-- There, you happy?


I am neither happy nor unhappy as I type these words.
BUT I think that making *Join AA* as No. 1 would be a much more practical and wise thing for you to do. But you know what they say: "You can bring a horse to water but you cannot make him drink it." But at least you are capable of seeing the water, gib.

I can deal with a bit of boredom, just not depression.


Do you have the kind of depression that can be worked out by following a particular regime or no?

AA meetings give you the opportunity to *be there* when you are feeling down and shaky...if or when that happens. That is the beauty of the meetings. There will be like people there who have experienced what you have and will want to help you. You will need a strong sense of inter-connectedness.

Tell you what, Arc. Let's compromise. I'll think about joining AA if I fall off the horse after July 1.


A stitch in time saves nine, gib.

I'll be forced to ask myself: what have I got left? And I'll remember you: well, Arc did suggest AA. What have I got to lose now? For now, however, I want to give myself a chance to do it on my own. <-- That's something I can take pride in...


One question: What kind of pride are we speaking about here?
I personally feel that any man or woman who goes to AA, determined to help him/her ~ self get off the alcohol, with all of the hard work and struggle that that entails ought to give themselves a nice pat on the back and good affirmations like *good for you* and *keep on keeping on*.

...and pride fuels my will to succeed. The opportunity (and the vanity) to say I did it on my own.


A little voice is telling me to be silent here. That is for you to reflect on or not.


Keep in mind, however, that finding substitutes for the drugs is only part of what I want out of therapy
;

For instance, what might some of those substitutes be?

I feel like July 1 is a deadline I'm giving myself to grow up.


lol I kind of thought that *growing up* is part of a journey that lasts until death.
Why do you seem to be in such a hurry for everything?

I feel like I know what I need to do to improve myself (like get therapy) and I'm just waiting for July 1.


Well, the therapy might wait until July 1st, but you will do absolutely nothing until THEN to continue (hopefully) to improve yourself?
Maybe I am just mis-reading what you mean here

I know I can be like a superhero if I really wanted,


Define what YOU mean when you say *superhero*?

but I will need a coach (therapist) to help me get there. I'll definitely lean on the therapist to help me find substitutes to the drugs, but I feel like I have to get them out of my life first before I even start to kick this into high gear with the help of a therapist. <-- That's the general gist of what I want to say.


I do not know, gib, and I may be wrong here but my instinct is telling me that you are putting the cart before the horse.

I want to be more than OK. I want more than for nothing to be wrong with me, I want to be awesome!


Where do you think that your wanting to be awesome is coming from?
If I were you and perhaps in some ways I am similar to you, aswe can all be, that is one of the questions which I might ask the therapist or reveal in an AA meeting.

I think perhaps, gib, that if you give it some thought, you might find that you ARE awesome in some ways, not in a way that is egoistical or vain, but in a way that is real, in the same way that you might look up into the night sky, and know instinctively how awesome that beautiful bright moon is.


I believe that I will no longer be able to fault myself for anything. Right now, I can't deny that the drugs and alcohol are a bad choice and that I am choosing. <-- I can (and should) blame myself.


Maybe seeing that is enough. I do not know where blaming gets us. If Rome was not built in a day neither were you. It took what? Almost forty years to build you? That does not mean you take no responsibility for it.

Although I will continue to have flaws even after July 1,


Join the club, gib. :evilfun:

ADD is just a part of who I am and so I don't really consider it a flaw, and self-doubt, if it remains after July 1, will be an illusion (like fearing nothing but fear itself).


As for the first, good for you.
As for the second, would you necessarily consider *self-doubt to be an illusion? I mean if it is there, it IS there and is it not a good thing to reflect on why it is there, what triggered it?


Feeling awesome is a substitute for drugs. If I'm lucky, this lack of feeling awesome will just fade with time.


“What I am really saying is that you don’t need to do anything, because if you see yourself in the correct way, you are all as much extraordinary phenomenon of nature as trees, clouds, the patterns in running water, the flickering of fire, the arrangement of the stars, and the form of a galaxy. You are all just like that, and there is nothing wrong with you at all.”
Alan Watts



Time, patience, energy, honesty, exorcising of demons... yes. Cannot do it alone? I wouldn't mind sharing the journey towards awesomehood with someone, a special person who knows how to support me in my goals, but I just want July 1 all for myself. As I said, it's a matter of pride, and pride is fuel. After that, I might relax the intensity (depending on if I think I still need it or not).


Didn't you mention that you have a very good female friend? I cannot remember her name. As for the other, it might be better for you not to look for a special someone. What do you think? They might just muddy the waters of your journey into sobriety but quien sabe!


I don't think you can compare relationships to drug addictions.


lol You certainly have that wrong, gib. But it would depend on the individuals and the relationships. Many relationships are very addictive and co-dependent.

Sometimes it's healthy to end a relationship. Sometimes people change and they have to go their separate ways.


Yes, it is.
This too can be true. Sometimes people refuse to change so another has to go his/her separate ways.

I don't think there's very many situations in which it's healthy to become an addict.

I do not see ANY situation where it is healthy to become an addict.


Shortly after July 1; I'm cocky, Arc. I actually believe that by July 1, I will be drug and alcohol free. I don't need to give myself time to see if that's true. July 1 will be the day I earn a tattoo.


I have no doubt that you can be. You have done it before.
Living in the NOW is the most important thing but do not forget that the NOW is always a continuation or a continuum.
We just see things differently.
I never did see the image of that tattoo.


And besides, the tattoo is instrumental.


It is? What piece of instrumental or classical music will you hear as you gaze at it?
What actual piece of music would go well with your journey into sobriety?
I would be interested in what you come up with.

I'm not running to win a marathon, just to make that initial leap.


Is the leap the beginning or the end of your journey? Will you already be there when your feet touch the ground?
“Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.”
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It Felt Love

How did the rose
Ever open its heart
And give to this world
All its beauty?
It felt the encouragement of light
Against its being,
Otherwise,
We all remain
Too frightened
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:01 pm

gib wrote:Tell you what, Eternal. You do you, and I'll do me. I'll quit the drugs but I promise not to put any pressure on you to do the same. That way, you can feel free to indulge in whatever drug habits you desire without feeling like you now have to live up to a new standard.


I dont care what you do in terms of quitting drugs, if you actually can, which you can't. It's the other things you're getting in the way of, beyond just trying to quit drugs, that has me getting involved. You need to knock your attitude off.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:20 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:You mean to say that you can be a lot more *impartial* where your self is concerned? Yes, and in general. That is what I said or asked you.
We are often more impartial with others than we can be with ourselves. We also project our own issues onto others.
I wonder if it is far easier to see others as being awesome than it is to see ourselves in that same way albeit I do not think that our main focus in life is to concentrate on being awesome. But that is an individual thing. I think it's easy to be fooled by appearances.

Aside from that, you cannot actually make a statement like that because you are not a fly on the wall of my entire life.


I don't need to be a fly on the wall of your life to be more impartial than you, especially if we're talking about my life. I've had 41 years of experience with myself; I have direct access to my inner world, my personal memories, my tastes, my desires, my deepest most hidden secrets; and I have a lot more experience with my own children than you do. You don't even know if the person I present myself as on ILP is the real me; you have no idea when I'm lying and when I'm not. You've never met me, we've never talked person-to-person.

The way I see it, Arc, there is some truth to the idea that others can be more impartial about ourselves than we can (even though we are ourselves), but I find this idea is often misunderstood and misused (abused?) in discussions. People try to leverage this idea as if it were true of the whole person--but it's actually very rarely true; the rare occasions when it's true are usually those when it's over something very difficult for the individual to come to terms with and easy for the other person because they don't have a stake in it. But this happens maybe 10% of the time, and it involves maybe a small piece of the pie that is the whole person or the person's life. Even then, there's numerous other things to consider; for example, you'd still have to somehow confirm that the other person isn't projecting their own issues and prejudices on the individual; most people do bring their issues and prejudice to bear on judging other people, making others less impartial than one's self. Also, being impartial or having no stake sometimes means not caring enough to really look into the matter so that your opinion is at least a little bit informed rather than a knee jerk reaction; for a third thing, you'd really have to be someone close to the individual, someone like a good friend or a family member--definitely not some anonymous person you happen to know on an internet forum--otherwise, you're competing against a whole lifetime of experience and knowledge (like my 41 years of experience with myself compared to your, what? Maybe a couple days worth, cumulatively, of reading exchanging on ILP?); and of course, being a close friend or relative can make you less impartial, not more, right?

Arcturus Descending wrote:But give me examples, gib, where you *believe* that you are more of an impartial person than I am.


How 'bout the fact that you confuse your experience growing up with your mother for expert impartial insight into my life and who I am, and how that's affecting my children? I wouldn't make that leap when judging others. If I were raised by an alcoholic, I would at least consider the fact that that makes me biased.

Also, I've had my IQ tested and I show an exceptional aptitude for what Gardner called "intrapersonal intelligence"--the intelligence to know one's self. We all have this ability to one extent or another; it's when we lie to yourselves or go into denial, but then find a moment when we can drop the act and temporarily admit to ourselves the truth and what we're really doing. While this doesn't mean I don't ever go into denial, or distort the truth on myself, or play psychological games with myself unconsciously, it does mean that I have the ability to put that on hold for a moment and admit to myself the truth and what my motives are for playing these self-directed mind games; it's what I call the "higher self" within. To me, the experience is like becoming someone else; that is, treating myself as though I were another person; it thereby becomes a lot more like trying to make a psychological assessment of another person--not having to get by defense mechanisms and assaults to the ego--being more "impartial" in a sense--which really helps in nurturing self-awareness.

Arcturus Descending wrote:Ah, but wouldn't it be so much easier if we were capable of just letting it all go. What would be the secret to that? Knowing ourselves and what we are about and just letting ourselves flow like water ..


Easier in what way? Are you asking wouldn't it be easier if our brains were naturally wired differently, if we were a different species without the propensity to be insulted when someone attacks our values? I can imagine it would be easier not having to deal with hurt feelings and anger, but we were created this way for a reason.

Personally, I try to exercise choice. I recognize, first and foremost, that this is a discussion forum, which means that I don't have to respond... now or ever. Then I allow myself time. Time to reflect, to think creatively on a response, to decide on how to respond, if at all. Letting some insult go and not responding is one option I allow myself, but not the only one. Having enough time to think of an appropriate response often results in coming up with better things than letting go and not responding (better in my estimation, at least)--I allow for that option too--and I'm usually quite satisfied with whatever I choose. What I try to watch out for are situations where I find myself getting all caught up in defensiveness and frustration--you know, the negative emotions--responding reactively, almost in a panic, rather than proactively. <-- Then I feel like I'm just feeding negative unhealthy emotions where making the decision to let go much earlier would have been better.

In brief... choice and time, not following a self-imposed rule, is what makes discussions like this most enjoyable to me. <-- I don't know if that's the same as "easier" but it is the most fulfilling to me.

Arcturus Descending wrote:I really do not know if I am right or wrong here. I guess it depends on the one who is looking. But in one sense, looking at it as an attempt just might set one up for failure. Again, I could be wrong. But I like where it can be a *decision*.


TBH, I'm not oblivious to the fact that July 1 will be an attempt; even decisions are attempts, and it could be a catastrophic failure; I'm just choosing not to think of it that way. Like I said, my thoughts and attitude towards this are just as instrumental as they are reflections on truth--they are meant to create the truth just as much as to predict it. It's like an athlete competing in the 100 meter sprint. Typically, with 7 other competitors, he stands a chance of 1 in 8. But he doesn't tell himself this. He doesn't say: I've only got a 1 in 8 chance of winning. He tells himself: I am going to win. <-- It may not guarantee the win in his pocket, but it just might bump up his chances a bit higher than 1 in 8.

Arcturus Descending wrote:If you could have more of happiness or meaningfulness in your life, which would you choose?


Beh... that's a good question. Can I sit on it?

I know I want happiness, but that's the animal side of me. What would a higher being choose? I think a higher being might choose meaningfulness and from that, draw out happiness.

Arcturus Descending wrote:I have never heard of an energy specialist so I googled it. It was not what I expected...nothing that has anything to do with rejuvenating yourself. The way I look at it, energy begets energy. Do you like to walk?


Yes, I like to walk (particularly when I'm stoned :D ). I also like to ride my bike.

Here, I'm looking for a substitute to the caffeine.

In general, I'd like my brain to be more responsive. When I compare myself to others, I find others usually have a nack for being able to respond to things in real time, and usually it's the right respondse, and on occasion there's more than one response. They know exactly the right thing to say, how to say it, how to win people over. My brain's more reflective--it needs time to digest and come up with appropriate responses--but usually this only works on internet forums. In real life, it's detrimental. Caffeine fixes that, speeds up my brain, makes me more responsive, makes me more influential. It gives my brain the energy it needs to come up with the right responses on the spot. If I could get that energy without the drugs somehow, I will be one step closer to awesomehood.

Alcohol is a nice complement to the caffeine as far as being responsive and infuential goes, so coupled with the search for more energy is the search for more confidence and less inhibitions, but I think that will be a much easier problem to solve than the more energy one.

(though I've also learned that too much caffeine and alcohol just makes me an annoying prick--not very influential--so I have to keep in mind that maybe less is more).

Arcturus Descending wrote:I get that but then again, how would people know for the most part whether you have stuck to your commitment?


They don't need to know. I just have to have something to prove. Announcing my intentions drives me to want to prove myself (yes, I see the irony in that).

Arcturus Descending wrote:BUT I think that making *Join AA* as No. 1 would be a much more practical and wise thing for you to do. But you know what they say: "You can bring a horse to water but you cannot make him drink it." But at least you are capable of seeing the water, gib.


Eighth place is all you're getting, Arc. :evilfun: And if I think of other things to add to the list, you're getting bumped to 9th.

Arcturus Descending wrote:Do you have the kind of depression that can be worked out by following a particular regime or no?


Uh... idunno. :confusion-shrug:

Arcturus Descending wrote:One question: What kind of pride are we speaking about here?
I personally feel that any man or woman who goes to AA, determined to help him/her ~ self get off the alcohol, with all of the hard work and struggle that that entails ought to give themselves a nice pat on the back and good affirmations like *good for you* and *keep on keeping on*.


I know, you're an institutionalist, you'd be proud of that. I wouldn't. I just question why doing it on one's own is shameful to you. Should I not give myself a pat on the back for doing it on my own?

Arcturus Descending wrote:
gib wrote:...and pride fuels my will to succeed. The opportunity (and the vanity) to say I did it on my own.


A little voice is telling me to be silent here. That is for you to reflect on or not.


It's 'cause I said vanity, isn't it?

Arcturus Descending wrote:For instance, what might some of those substitutes be?


Astral projection.

Being awesome.

Raising my energy levels.

Arcturus Descending wrote:lol I kind of thought that *growing up* is part of a journey that lasts until death. I like Jack Sparrow's saying: "I don't know how to act my age, I've never been this old before."
Why do you seem to be in such a hurry for everything?


I've got a lot of catching up to do. There's tons of things I know I could be doing right now which I'm not. Just because they can easily be applied all in one go doesn't mean I need to take my time. I should just apply them. If it were more uncertain or seemed to require a lot more will power--you know, hit and miss--I'd probably take a more experimental approach (like my 2 month stints) which is best done taking one's time.

Arcturus Descending wrote:Well, the therapy might wait until July 1st, but you will do absolutely nothing until THEN to continue (hopefully) to improve yourself? I thought there's no rush.
Maybe I am just mis-reading what you mean here


Nope, you got me pretty well pegged. What if I told you I'm not doing anything to improve myself until July 1? What's the worst I can expect from you? Disaproval?

Arcturus Descending wrote:Define what YOU mean when you say *superhero*?


Being awesome.

Arcturus Descending wrote:I do not know, gib, and I may be wrong here but my instinct is telling me that you are putting the cart before the horse.


You want me to get therapy first and then get off the drugs?

Arcturus Descending wrote:Where do you think that your wanting to be awesome is coming from?


The drugs.

Arcturus Descending wrote:Maybe seeing that is enough. Yes. I do not know where blaming gets us.


It's temporary. It's just another motivator. Another one of those instrumental things (<-- You know what that means, Arc?)

Arcturus Descending wrote:As for the second, would you necessarily consider *self-doubt to be an illusion? I mean if it is there, it IS there and is it not a good thing to reflect on why it is there, what triggered it?


No, no, no, Arc, if the MMPI shows that self-doubt is the only thing wrong with me, then there's nothing wrong with me. What is there to doubt if drugs/alcohol are gone and ADD is not a flaw? Self-doubt itself? <-- Are you kidding? You wanna make that a self-fulfilling prophesy? It may not go away easily, but that doesn't make it any less illusory. In fact, it's most likely a chronic condition (my mother had it), like a schizonphrenic who has to live with hallucinations or delusions; just because he has them doesn't make them real.

There's a whole mess of things which cumulatively lead to my self-doubt--it's not a mystery why I have it--figuring that out doesn't make it go away; it just means the only thing left for me to do is to recognize it's illusory nature. What else do you think a therapist would prescribe? That I convince myself that I have reasons to self-doubt and then tell myself that it's illusory?

Arcturus Descending wrote:Didn't you mention that you have a very good female friend? I might have. I cannot remember her name. Me neither. As for the other, it might be better for you not to look for a special someone. What do you think? Not looking. It would just be nice if she fell from Heaven. They might just muddy the waters of your journey into sobriety but quien sabe!


Exactly. As Shieldy so eloquently put it: "What woman wants a man who struggles with a drug or alcohol addiction."

Well, the answer is: a woman who also struggles with a drug or alcohol addiction. Now, if I didn't have my July 1 goal, I might look for a woman like that, but since I have my July 1 goal, I think you're right--finding a woman who also suffers addiction problems would only bring me down, and before July 1 any woman who doesn't would never go for me. After July 1, however, the game changes.

(Not that I'd necessarily want a relationship even then--being single does have its perks.)

Arcturus Descending wrote:I never did see the image of that tattoo.


Let's try again. I just switched internet service providers and they won't let me run a web server out of my home. But we'll try forwarding on port 5000:

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Arcturus Descending wrote:Is the leap the beginning or the end of your journey? Will you already be there when your feet touch the ground?


Let's just call it the end of a phase.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Chakra Superstar » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:52 am

WendyDarling wrote:
gib wrote:5) Talk to WendyDarling about astral projections

Oh snap, I'd forgotten about your tutorial. I'll get to crackin' on my instruction manual for you. The most important aspect of astral traveling is having an energized positive disposition/outlook. You need a great deal of feeling both physically and emotionally good.


I've always seen you, gib, as a Peter Pan character: a boy who refused to grow up, and Wendy? Well Wendy is Wendy :lol:

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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:07 pm

Chakra Superstar wrote:I've always seen you, gib, as a Peter Pan character: a boy who refused to grow up, and Wendy? Well Wendy is Wendy :lol:


Yes, that interpretation's crossed my mind too. :lol: Except I think if Wendy can help me with astral projection, she'll be the one in the lead.

BTW, I remember you saying you've astral projected too. Want in on this?
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:01 pm

BTW, I remember you saying you've astral projected too. Want in on this?

Yeah Chakra, contribute lots more. I could swear that I asked you for more about your astral experiences ages ago.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Chakra Superstar » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:17 pm

gib wrote:BTW, I remember you saying you've astral projected too. Want in on this?


Thanks for the invite but I think you and Wendy should do this alone. If you’re successful then you might consider adding another person but at the start, I’d suggest you keep the complications to a bare minimum. It’s a skill, not magic and it takes a lot of concentration and control. The fewer distractions, the better.

FTR: I’ve only travelled with one other human and that wasn’t planned. It was with one of my brothers when we were kids. We only realized it when he mentioned a weird dream he had with me in it and I told him I had the same ‘dream’. Our recollections were identical then, some time later, after gaining some astral projection (AP) experience I realized that the ‘weirdness’ was the energetic astral body and realm. The energetic body is quite different from the mental dream 'body'; it's more vibrant, more alive.

I did try to 'rendezvous' with someone when I thought it would be a good idea to sneak into a girls bedroom a couple of houses down (I was about 15, I guess :oops: ). On thinking that, I felt a thud and found myself back in my body. It wasn't punishment or guilt. It was simply because what I desired was a bodily desire so.... BAM!!! Back to the body. You get the body to meet your desires. Damn!!!

It will be interesting to see if guys can pull this rendezvous off.
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Chakra Superstar » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:36 pm

WendyDarling wrote:.... I could swear that I asked you for more about your astral experiences ages ago.


Mmmm… you may have?…. I tend to disappear for a while then forget where I was… sorry ‘bout dat. I wrote a lot about astral projection on ILO but now it’s all gone. I wish I had kept copies….
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

OK, got that out of my system…. where were we? Oh, yeah, there were some awesome AP experiences -- and terrifying one’s, too. I’d love to share them. All of them are fascinating and one of them -- if it can be called an AP? It may have been a reverse AP -- anyway, it still blows my mind to this day. I still don’t know what to make of it. It was witnessed by half a dozen friends so I know it happened. I just don't know what it was.

Anyway, I’ll do my best with the fragments of time I have.... Enjoy your travels and be sure to ask questions and take notes. If anyone asks about me, tell them you don't know me. It wasn't me who pinched the flower fairy's bottom or cheated on the magick powers test. Honest :oops:

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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby gib » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:08 am

Chakra Superstar wrote:Thanks for the invite but I think you and Wendy should do this alone. If you’re successful then you might consider adding another person but at the start, I’d suggest you keep the complications to a bare minimum. It’s a skill, not magic and it takes a lot of concentration and control. The fewer distractions, the better.


Pretty volatile stuff, huh?

Chakra Superstar wrote:I did try to 'rendezvous' with someone when I thought it would be a good idea to sneak into a girls bedroom a couple of houses down (I was about 15, I guess :oops: ).


You dirty, dirty boy. :lol:

Chakra Superstar wrote:It will be interesting to see if guys can pull this rendezvous off.


I'll let you know. :lol:

Chakra Superstar wrote:I’d love to share them.


Please do!

Chakra Superstar wrote:It was witnessed by half a dozen friends so I know it happened.


What exactly did they witness?

Chakra Superstar wrote: If anyone asks about me, tell them you don't know me. It wasn't me who pinched the flower fairies bottom or cheated on the magick powers test. Honest :oops:


Your secret's safe with me. But I can't speak for Wendy (I hear she's a snitch, but only if you get on her bad side :D ).
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby Chakra Superstar » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:46 pm

gib wrote:Pretty volatile stuff, huh?

Yep, the astral world is an energetic world. Forms, time and space are very sensitive to thoughts and emotions -- one rises and falls in direct proportion to one's state of mind.

gib wrote:What exactly did they witness?

I’d rather share the story in context because what we saw came at the end of an experience that lasted 6 weeks... but the elevator version is: a purple mist appeared on the lounge room ceiling where a group of friends and I were sitting. We just froze and watched the mist grow in size and slowly creep down the walls. When it got about a foot from my head, I had an urge to touch it so I raised my arms and flattened my palms as if I was trying to stop it from moving any further but it just kept going... pushing my hands back as it advanced... then one of the girls freaked out. She screamed her lungs out and totally lost it. The mist disappeared in a flash.

I thought the mist was pushing my hands back down but the others told me that I (I guess my astral/energetic body?) was actually rising up out of my physical body and began to enter the mist. They had seen it. I had no idea I was moving; I thought the mist was moving.

Not only did the others witness it but the girl that freaked out was an atheist and a super sceptic when it came to anything supernatural. She’d be the first to call bullshit if someone told her that a mist appeared on the ceiling blah, blah, blah... so it was even more convincing that a disbeliever saw it.

I contacted her about a decade or so after the incident and when I broached that episode (which was why I tracked her down), she suddenly got up from the table and told me not to talk about it again. It really disturbed her that much. Anyway, I’ll leave it at that.

Good luck with your travels. Send us a postcard when you get there. :P
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Re: 2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:39 pm

Meeting up? When did I say that we're meeting up in the astral world, gib? My goal is to teach you the steps I followed to get out of my body.
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