Advertising and Authority

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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:51 am

Moreno wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:In advertising lies a danger: it does not usually represent the actual value an advertised object has to an average audience, it rather evokes a basic lust within the human and connects that to a brand name. Advertising is a means of getting people to do what someone else wants them to do, but because it is not done by violence, it is wholly accepted.
I would say that even more important than the buying of the Product is the way advertising gives Brains, especially children's Brains, all sorts of ideas about what is going on, what is important, what a human being is, what to be scared of, what is cool......This all taking Place in the background of the Products. The background of a coke Commercial often includes all sorts of messages about what emotions one should have, how the men and women should dress and relate, what happiness is, what is cool. This is poured into the brain and then associated with the Product. Sure, it is unpleasant if people buy sugar water, but what they are being taught about Life is even more damaging.

I agree. In this sense it's a continuation of religion - but rather a heathen liberation from the Christian sexual and modesty mores.

Ads aim at the most vulnerable, susceptible parts of the human brain, and affect them with messages which are not checked for the kind of effect they might have on a persons well being. Is it perhaps legitimate to view advertisement as a form of non physical violence?
Sure. Or cult training.

Exactly.

In as far as this is a hyperbole I am aware of it being one. It's true that we can ignore advertising, some even claim to be uninfluenced by it.

I am very skeptical About this claim. They may not buy a toyota because of the latest advertising, but the background messages will reinforce brainwashing they got as kids and they are very likely not immune to that. They Think they are not influenced because they Think reality is the way it is presented in advertising. Their skepticism gets aimed at the Product - though even here I Think people are more influenced than they realize - but Corporate ideas about what ontology and methodologies 'citizens' should have are getting in there and settling in.

It works in two ways. The ad man tries to read the mind of the viewer, and connect the product to this mindset. At the same time he will be stimulating and perpetuating the mindset that allows him to be persuasive.

In principle, we could make use of this pre established 'blank stare' in any way we'd wish.

'You are (only) your Surfaces and spending more Money on these Surfaces is the way to improve who you are'

The war around that one is nearly over.

Because money is running out. People find that they can not be how they've been trained to value themselves. Mass cognitive dissonance, an urge to return to reality, but a complete lack of capacity to interpret reality in any way except the pleasure principle. That's how it stands - in this turmoil I'm thankful to be trained in using my imagination to persuade myself of what I've decided is true. There is no more reality that is handed out without a price.

The trick to selling a truth is to make it seem like a luxury and a privilege. Often that means making it expensive. In more interesting cases it means that only a certain audience is permitted to the product. Any truly thing of power being advertised must discard a lot of people by simply making itself known.

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I'm not talking about Mercedes but it's not entirely unrelated.

One should have more reverence for the shame-facedness with which nature has concealed herself behind enigmas and motley uncertainties. Perhaps truth is a woman who has reasons for not showing her reasons? Perhaps her name is Baubo, to speak in Greek?... Oh, those Greeks! They knew how to live: for that purpose it is necessary to keep bravely to the surface, the fold and the skin; to worship appearance, to believe in forms, tones, and words, in the whole Olympus of appearance! Those Greeks were superficial - from profundity ! And are we not coming back precisely to this point, we dare-devils of the spirit, who have scaled the highest and most dangerous peak of contemporary thought, and have looked around us from it, have looked down from it? Are we not precisely in this respect Greeks? Worshippers of forms, of tones, and of words? And precisely on that account artists? [Nietzsche - The Gay Science]

But what Nietzsche leaves out here is that the Greek surface is beautiful because the body is superabundant.
Last edited by Fixed Cross on Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby Moreno » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:00 am

Fixed Cross wrote:I agree. In this sense it's a continuation of religion - but rather a heathen liberation from the Christian sexual and modesty mores.
I would guess there are even mixed messages in their, some judging sex. But more importantly, I see primarily anti-lliberation messages. YOu are a Surface. You need to have the perfect Surface or you will not get X, y and Z. Bad people have negative emotions. Losers are like ________. You can buy your way to happiness. If you do not own X you will not be happy. Men and women interact like _____________. To be the right kind of man you are like ____________ To be the right kind of woman you are like ___________You are the sum of your Products. If what you have is old but not yet an antique you are ______________[negative evaluative term] And much more constraining, judging, manipulating, distorting and severely limiting and causing a lot of fear and confusion about what one is.

It works in two ways. The ad man tries to read the mind of the viewer, and connect the product to this mindset. At the same time he will be stimulating and perpetuating the mindset that allows him to being persuasive.
and in most cases they have been a third parent, often, perhaps most often, having more time to beam messages into that child's mind than either parent or both has had.

Because money is running out. People find that they can not be how they've been trained to value themselves. Mass cognitive dissonance, am urge to return to reality, but a complete lack of capacity to interpret reality in any way except the pleasure principle. That's how it stands - in this turmoil I'm thankful to be trained in using my imagination to persuade myself of what I've decided is true. There is no more reality that is handed out without a price.

As much of the West gets poorer it will be interesting to see what the advertisers do and what Products the lower classes and the precariat have aimed at them.
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby Tyrannus » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:14 am

Advertisement is a extension of propaganda. They're almost identical. Like cousins of each other really.
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:30 am

Being a filmmaker and photographer as well as a value-ontologist I'm interested in advertisements on both an artistic and philosophical level. Most of them are ugly as fuck, that's an issue that has to be separated from the violence before we can proceed into a reconstruction of the concept into an asset.
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby Tyrannus » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:04 am

Fixed Cross wrote:Being a filmmaker and photographer as well as a value-ontologist I'm interested in advertisements on both an artistic and philosophical level. Most of them are ugly as fuck, that's an issue that has to be separated from the violence before we can proceed into a reconstruction of the concept into an asset.


Everything abstract is a type of symbology trying to convey a message. The artist is constantly trying to convince people of something.
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:14 pm

Tyrannus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:Being a filmmaker and photographer as well as a value-ontologist I'm interested in advertisements on both an artistic and philosophical level. Most of them are ugly as fuck, that's an issue that has to be separated from the violence before we can proceed into a reconstruction of the concept into an asset.


Everything abstract is a type of symbology trying to convey a message. The artist is constantly trying to convince people of something.

Not at all, but you wouldn't know what it means to not try to convince anyone.
Wanting to convince is the antithesis of creativity. They can come together (synthesize) and then you get things like political media and advertizements. Creativity + a sense of lack.

Good art (what's good in my book ) is born out of excess, surplus.

All this artist needs to do is share his abundance.

It's not a concept that many people seem to understand.
The rarity of this non teleological abundance is what taught me more than anything about mankind.
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby Pattern » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:59 am

When you think about it, literarcy and the ability to paint or build in the physical world was the medium of the last century.

This time around. it's the ability to program. The excess you think doesn't exist, or that doesn't exist to the degree that you like, does exist. You're just oblivious to it.

Time to get with the program, gramps. If that is what you really aspire to find in life.
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby MagsJ » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:21 am

Advertising can be cool, fun, informative, ingenious etc. so why does it have the negative label? as no-one is forcing you to buy into certain lifestyles or products.

Post an example of your idea of the best and worst advertising campaigns, and I will respond in kind ;)
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby Silhouette » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:52 am

MagsJ wrote:no-one is forcing you to buy into certain lifestyles or products.

I just read an article in my december Mensa magazine about how this is exactly not true when it comes to the increasingly effective attempts by companies to actively control your thinking when it comes to advertising and encouraging the purchasing of their products. There was mention of an experiment that successfully controlled how long customers looked at a certain product, and how many products they will look at, simply by manipulating the lighting. And there are so many other factors that companies have capitalised upon thanks to the most up-to-date neuro-science and experimentation, that taken together fall little short of force - the brain is easily manipulable and the intention is absolutely that of control, but most disturbingly, selling the idea that the consumer is the one in control.

It's all way way sinister, and I cannot help be repulsed by it. The only aspect of force that's been removed is the physical side, which it turns out isn't particularly needed anyway.

Do you deny that your line of work is nothing other than the attempt to manipulate minds?
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:01 am

Pattern wrote:When you think about it, literarcy and the ability to paint or build in the physical world was the medium of the last century.

This time around. it's the ability to program. The excess you think doesn't exist, or that doesn't exist to the degree that you like, does exist. You're just oblivious to it.

Time to get with the program, gramps. If that is what you really aspire to find in life.

Like I said, its not a concept many people seem to understand.
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Magsj - one of the ones from when I still enjoyed them was this one.



Recently, this was brilliant



I have no idea how much these campaigns improved the sales though, so what's "good"?

Hard to say what's bad, as so much is... and yet isn't because it's effective. What is most obviously bad in Holland is the ads for toilet cleaner which are dubbed from the original German version.

Also I've repeatedly been impressed by Nike ads.

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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby Moreno » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:57 am

MagsJ wrote:Advertising can be cool, fun, informative, ingenious etc. so why does it have the negative label? as no-one is forcing you to buy into certain lifestyles or products.
Kids are watching advertising. Their minds and conception of reality are being formed Before they have the tool to tune this out. Of course, it works very well on adults also, in part because the backdoor - I mean this metaphorically - has been put in Place since they were kids, but not just that. There is the information directly being given in the ad, then there is the divvying up and valuing of reality going on all around this. Those with Power are getting a tremendous amount of time with growing Brains. And there needs are being fulfilled by this training.
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby Helandhighwater » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:13 pm

Moreno wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Advertising can be cool, fun, informative, ingenious etc. so why does it have the negative label? as no-one is forcing you to buy into certain lifestyles or products.
Kids are watching advertising. Their minds and conception of reality are being formed Before they have the tool to tune this out. Of course, it works very well on adults also, in part because the backdoor - I mean this metaphorically - has been put in Place since they were kids, but not just that. There is the information directly being given in the ad, then there is the divvying up and valuing of reality going on all around this. Those with Power are getting a tremendous amount of time with growing Brains. And there needs are being fulfilled by this training.


1984.
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby MagsJ » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:19 am

Silhouette wrote:I just read an article in my december Mensa magazine about how this is exactly not true when it comes to the increasingly effective attempts by companies to actively control your thinking when it comes to advertising and encouraging the purchasing of their products.
I don't know about you or anyone else but I buy only what I need.. and that's after researching the best brand of that product that suits my pocket and needs.

Do you deny that your line of work is nothing other than the attempt to manipulate minds?
Do you know what projects I've worked on?
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby MagsJ » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:32 am

Moreno wrote:Kids...
...and therein lies the problem. In my day :eusa-naughty:
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby MagsJ » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:39 am

:lol:

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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby Pandora » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:48 am

I like this ad campaign: Unplug1, Unplug2, Unplug3.



Promoting hedonism:

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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby Moreno » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:47 am

Helandhighwater wrote:
Moreno wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Advertising can be cool, fun, informative, ingenious etc. so why does it have the negative label? as no-one is forcing you to buy into certain lifestyles or products.
Kids are watching advertising. Their minds and conception of reality are being formed Before they have the tool to tune this out. Of course, it works very well on adults also, in part because the backdoor - I mean this metaphorically - has been put in Place since they were kids, but not just that. There is the information directly being given in the ad, then there is the divvying up and valuing of reality going on all around this. Those with Power are getting a tremendous amount of time with growing Brains. And there needs are being fulfilled by this training.


1984.
Yeah, the 80s were bad, but they are better at manipulating now. Orwell wouldn't just be looking to the East were he alive today.
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:42 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Magsj - one of the ones from when I still enjoyed them was this one.



Oh, fuck yeah, thats still up?
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I've been guided somewhat by William Blake's quote: "I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create". Just change 'system' for 'style'. - Bill

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- Thucydides
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Re: Advertising and Authority

Postby MagsJ » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:53 pm

I love this ad for Anchor Spreadable:

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