Abstract

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Re: Abstract

Postby Ichthus » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:41 pm

:0(
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Re: Abstract

Postby Hobbes Choice » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:46 pm

I did not know Abstract as I am new to this Forum.
I hope there is no one here who has taken cause to wonder if something they said might have upset him.

The world of Forum posting can be very aggressive and upsetting. I have to say that I'm a refugee from one or two Forums that seem to have no limits to the evil that people will do another. I've always liked to think that I can give as good as I get, but have always tried to start by giving the benefit of the doubt by never making that first strike, with the vitriolic attacks.

But, so far so good. I find the debate here rather good natured, with a little sarcasm, and although people seem able to say what they feel without the wizened hand of the moderator scratching their eyes out, it seems the balance is about right.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Flannel Jesus » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:47 pm

I'm not under the impression that this forum or anything that happened here had much to do with it.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Hobbes Choice » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:50 pm

Ierrellus wrote:The sadness is now ours. Abstract is beyond it. A beautiful soul, now reaching beyond what we know. May the God of love comfort family and friends.


I can't help but say how hollow that is. What is the god of which you speak?
If god is all powerful then you have to ask why he allowed Abstract to do what he did. And he will comfort whom he wills, or not as he sees fit.
You might also reflect that in Christianity suicide is a mortal sin, so your co-religionists are now of the opinion that Abstract is gone to Hell, is that how you feel about it?
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Re: Abstract

Postby Hobbes Choice » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:53 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote:I'm not under the impression that this forum or anything that happened here had much to do with it.


I did not even mean to imply it.
But you said something about people 'being real', and it made me think about what it can be like in the online world.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Helandhighwater » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:28 pm

Hobbes Choice wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:The sadness is now ours. Abstract is beyond it. A beautiful soul, now reaching beyond what we know. May the God of love comfort family and friends.


I can't help but say how hollow that is. What is the god of which you speak?
If god is all powerful then you have to ask why he allowed Abstract to do what he did. And he will comfort whom he wills, or not as he sees fit.
You might also reflect that in Christianity suicide is a mortal sin, so your co-religionists are now of the opinion that Abstract is gone to Hell, is that how you feel about it?


God works in mysterious ways his wonders to perform.

Ok I am not going to argue that, there is never any reason for someone who is so popular and seems to have so much to give to the world to die before his or her time. There are 7 billion people on Earth it is likely everyone is going to see dozens people die before their time in their life (some of which they may know personally and some of which they may not), and the lesson will not become clearer or more magical even the 3rd time. No matter how much you want it to. Life is arbitrailly "cruel", for an atheist, for an agnostic it is utterly unfathomable, for a religionist it is a matter of apologetics. If there's always a plan, why is religion so bad at following it or making it clear? Is God not perfect? :D

Anyway this is not the time or the place to polute a thread with arguments, so I will ask if this can be moved.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Amorphos » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:19 am

i am shocked at this, i really liked him.
The way i see things is that his pattern [or essence] will go towards the creation of further generations of thinkers. Maybe some great philosopher of the future will learn from his experience in an innate manner. I hope also that one flame has gone out and yet another is lit!

:(
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Re: Abstract

Postby fuse » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:06 am

Honestly Abstract has affected me quite a bit. I've been thinking about it a lot lately. I had recently been arguing with him in a thread about the indeterminacy of nature and then I participated some in his thread about his real life ordeal and being held against his will at a hospital. I really thought there was more to the story than Abstract was keen to discuss (like what his shouting and laying in the street really meant, or why his parents would sign the petition for him to taken to the hospital), but since it was so personal I wasn't going to push for more information. Even now, I realize what I'm bringing up might be uncomfortable to some, but mostly I can see no greater way to respect Abstract than to find him and his ideas worth reconsidering.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Mr Reasonable » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:55 am

I got arrested for public intox in 1995 and because I was already on probation and I could have gone to jail they threw me in a hospital for a 4 or 5 days with all these lunatics. One kid thought he could do magic, there were a few droolers, and a few kids who were like drunken delinquent gang members who were probably there because of some technicality that their lawyer pulled off for em.

It was an interesting place to be for the short time I got to be there. I became the hero of all the crazies inside when they had to let me go. I mean, if you're not crazy, you're not crazy no matter how much money a hospital or pharma company wants to make. I should probably be quiet. I have a lot of grievances with the "mental health" system as it is. No need to go on a tirade any longer than this.

But the fact is fuse, he very well coulda been telling you the whole story. The sick part of all this is that as they're destroying your life and raping your freedom and prodding you and violating your privacy and your personhood and treating you like some specimen they actually in their minds believe that they are helping you and they've got a whole cookie cutter line about denial and self control and how the brain is a mystery that they understand but can't explain to you in any proper way. One of the worst feelings in the world is that of being overtaken by a bunch of people that you know are not as smart as you. Especially when it's via the use of some kind of force. I had to ride almost 200 miles in the back of a van with my hands and feet zip tied together when I was 15 or so because my parents thought I was on drugs. Insanity. I wasn't.

Ok. I'm stopping.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Drusuz » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:24 pm

Rest well Abstract, may your questions be answerd in the afterlife!
All statemens must be within logic and reason!
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Re: Abstract

Postby Sauwelios » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:11 pm

I never corresponded with Abstract after he became a moderator. I just couldn't take him seriously anymore. He just seemed too—moderate, and I imputed that to his being a mod. But maybe it was the other way round. In any case, I regretted not being able to correspond with him any longer. And when I read Carleas' post, I did wonder, like Hobbes Choice said, and with a chill, like Silhouette said, whether his becoming a mod might have isolated him just that little bit more, that little bit too much. I mean, it must be depressing for someone so young to already have ended up where Faust has. Just kidding, Fausty... I hope this post takes a middle ground between being funny and sad.
"Someone may object that the successful revolt against the universal and homogeneous state could have no other effect than that the identical historical process which has led from the primitive horde to the final state will be repeated. But would such a repetition of the process--a new lease of life for man's humanity--not be preferable to the indefinite continuation of the inhuman end? Do we not enjoy every spring although we know the cycle of the seasons, although we know that winter will come again?" (Leo Strauss, "Restatement on Xenophon's Hiero".)
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Re: Abstract

Postby Jayson » Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:58 am

I have been working with Robin (Abstract) over the past couple years collaboratively on spiritual philosophies, as well as on the theory of writing spiritual philosophies.

At the beginning of this year, Robin emailed me a body of over 32,000 words that he had organized his thoughts into for what he had titled so far as his, "religious text".
He did this with request for me to proof the work and provide feedback, which of course I did.

Due to his death, and in honor of his philosophical gift spiritually, as well as his interest in people reading his work which he viewed to contain truth, I have copied the contents of what he had emailed me and posted it online with essentially no editing; leaving it as he last wrote it with his hand.

Here is the page in honor of Robin Anderson's Religious Text.
The Religious Text of Robin Anderson
>jaysonthestumps.blogspot.com
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Spiritual: a set of neurological processes dealing with value placement, empathy, and sympathy through the associative truncation of relative identity, and which has reached a value set capable of being described as reverent to the individual, and from which existential experience and reflection is capable explicitly.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Helandhighwater » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:17 am

Nice Jayson. :)
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Re: Abstract

Postby peterpan » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:56 am

Yes, well done Jayson. I will read this work with interest. And take time reading it. As Abstract says
Read a little and stop, let it soak in
.
"I didn't get where I am today by thinking" - C.J.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Kriswest » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:46 pm

Yes, very nice, thank-you.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Tab » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:22 pm

A great pity.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:32 am

Carleas wrote:I regret to say that the poster who we knew as Abstract died on Monday. He had been struggling with mental illness, and on Monday he took his own life. The death of a young, promising mind is always tragic, and made worse by the thought that the world might have convinced him to make another choice. But life can be hard on minds like Abstract's, a mind burdened and made brilliant by the way that it different from the norm. The world is often cruel towards brilliance.

The most ironic thing is that his gift, the thing that killed him, is termed illness. The very thing that made him beautiful, his extremely keen and receptive mind and absence of presumption, is what caused his death. This is simply a matter of a world without heartfelt standards, without trust, without "God", as Abstract sought -

He wasn't the first to fall in this way, as the only way to draw the consequence of his experience in the world - it is a curse of mans best young. Our standards of well being are a deep sickness to those who have it in them to live pure - they can only keep valuing themselves by withdrawing from the vortex of corruption, 'normalcy', and doing the radical thing - truth.

We can be proud that he endured us with some real joy. It means we are not 'normal', but real, to a degree.
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Re: Abstract

Postby scherado » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:03 am

I knew nothing of 'Abstract' when I posted in his recent thread. It was the title that drew me as I at one time thought life not worth living from the first of the two tortures.

I regret that I dropped the ball, that I didn't press.
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Re: Abstract

Postby scherado » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:47 pm

Abstract wrote:[i_]t is not simply fear of death, it is fear of end. but then what is end but a concept, I mean what really ends. i would say that things do not end at all, things change, and it is rather that humans conceptualize a finite understanding of a thing that then results in the perception of the end of that thing when it changes beyond that conception. We are not taking a "thing" into account for its whole infinite lifespan as a changing thing.


Yes - Perpetual Change

I see the cold mist in the night
And watch the hills roll out of sight.
I watch in ev'ry single way, Inside out, outside in, ev'ry day.

The sun can warm the coldest dawn.
And move the movement on the lawn.
I learn in ev'ry single day, Inside out, outside in, ev'ry way.

And there you are!
(Making it up but you're sure that it is a star.)

And all you see!
(Is an illusion shining down in front of me.),

And then you say!
(Even in time we shall control the day.)

When what you see!
(Deep inside the day's controlling you and me.)

And one peculiar point I see,
As one of many ones of me.
As truth is gathered, I rearrange,
Inside out, outside in, inside out, outside in, Perpetual change.

And there you are!
(Saying we have the moon, so now the stars.)

When all you see!
(Is near disaster gazing down on you and me.)

And there you're standing!
(Saying we have the whole world in our hands.)

When all you're seeing!
(Deep inside the world's controlling you and me.)

Who'll see perpetual change?
You'll see perpetual change.


And there you are!
(Making it up but you're sure that it is a star.)

And all you see!
(Is an illusion shining down in front of me.)

And then you say!
(Even in time we shall control the day.)

When what you see!
(Deep inside the day's controlling you and me.)

As mist and sun are both the same.
We look on as pawns of their game.
They move to testify the day,
Inside out, outside in, inside out, outside in,
All of the way.


I find it hard to accept that he screamed out, I heard it and I did nothing.

I really do.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:13 pm

For You, Robin - with Love

Sparrow

Who will love a little Sparrow?
Who's traveled far and cries for rest?
"Not I," said the Oak Tree,
"I won't share my branches with
no sparrow's nest,
And my blanket of leaves won't warm
her cold breast."

Who will love a little Sparrow
And who will speak a kindly word?
"Not I," said the Swan,
"The entire idea is utterly absurd,
I'd be laughed at and scorned if the
other Swans heard."

Who will take pity in his heart,
And who will feed a starving sparrow?
"Not I," said the Golden Wheat,
"I would if I could but I cannot I know,
I need all my grain to prosper and grow."

Who will love a little Sparrow?
Will no one write her eulogy?
"I will," said the Earth,
"For all I've created returns unto me,
From dust were ye made and dust ye shall be."
Simon & Garfunkel


If Only, If Only

"If only, if only" ....
the demon wolf cries,
the prey on the ground were as soft as the sky,
as I howl here, hungry and lonely,

If only, if only...
the little fox cries,
the moss on the ground was as soft as the skies,
and I crouch all alone,
sad and lonely,

if only, if only,
the woodpecker cries,
the bark on the trees was as soft as the skies,
and the wolf howls below,
hungry and lonely,
Crying to the moon

"If only, if only...."
~ from Holes by Louis Sacher

:sad-teareye: :sad-teareye: :sad-teareye: :sad-teareye: :sad-teareye: :sad-teareye: :sad-teareye:

Shalom aleichem, Robin ~ ~ Fly Free! :angelic-blueglow:
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
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Re: Abstract

Postby motherofabstract » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:38 pm

About two years ago, my son, the person you know as Abstract, shared with me some of his posts on this forum. He told me that I should consider taking part…that I would find stimulating minds worth relating to. I chose not to at that time because this forum was HIS…something that he did separately from me. I did not want to infringe on one of the few pleasures that he had found as an adult…reaching out to other minds separately from me.

When he was a 7 days old, he had to have heart surgery to correct a coarctation of the aorta. At that time his father and I were told that there was a 10% chance that the surgery could cause brain damage. During this time, my son and I developed a deep and enduring spiritual connection. As he grew, we saw no evidence of brain damage, but rather evidence of genius. As early as when he was in kindergarten…maybe earlier…he and I had deep discussions about Infinity, the concept of God, and more. During this part of his life he had difficulty grasping the concept of yesterday and tomorrow. He finally settled on calling tomorrow ‘nextday’…and we all went with that. As he grew up, he and I loved to speculate about the universe together. I did not really think that it was abnormal for such a young child to be able to think on this level because of the family that I grew up in. Some of you in this forum who communicated with him seem to have satisfied his need to question, seek, and debate about the seemingly unsolvable.

Relating to him has always been wonderful and challenging and one of my favorite things to do. He was an amazing, brilliant, sensitive, empathetic, gentle, caring, loving and very strong person. He was a genius musician, writer, mathematician and philosopher. His illness was completely separate from these gifts. His gifts were not what killed him…they were what sustained him for as long as he lived.

As he developed into the wonderfully gifted young man that you knew, he became more and more burdened with irrational delusions and paranoia. This was horrible and painful for those of us who loved him…as well as for him. I often worried that there might not be many people who got to know his brilliance and beauty, but I was relieved to learn that many other people were, after all, graced with getting to know some facets of his very special, loving spirit…regardless of how much he began to withdraw due to his affliction.

Robin’s (Abstract’s) love and strength helped him persevere for 25 years. Those of us who were blessed with knowing, loving and caring for him, personally, tried everything we could to make this life endurable for him…to encourage (beseech, even) him to stay with us longer...but to no avail.

It is becoming more and more clear that he had been intricately planning and preparing for taking his own life. He had back-up plans. He was able to hide his intentions from everyone but me, for the most part. He asked me if I really would be devastated forever if he took his own life. I tried every thing to talk him out of, prevent, such a path…and I told him of course there would be a painful emptiness in my being forever. There is. I am blessed with two other unique and brilliant children so I must carry on for them.

Robin (Abstract) is still with each and every one of us that his life touched…in the microcosm and the macrocosm…infinitely within us and infinitely enveloping us.
So I say (as he and I used to say to each other at each parting) “Robin! I love you Infinity!”
May your torment be over and may you be consoled by the light and the love of the All.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Jayson » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:24 am

motherofabstract (I had almost written down your real name, but then realized you may be opposed to that),

I have attempted to post this on the obituary, but Robin was working with me on some of his writing, and was sending it through email.
It wasn't finished, but was quite substantial.

After receiving the terrible news, I decided to electronically publish his work on a website essentially as it was.
The Religious Text of Robin Anderson

I wanted to share this with you and your family because I'm not sure if any of you were ever able to see this before, and I also wanted to provide Robin's interest to share his truth's to the world.

If, for any reason, any of the family would rather that I take this publication on this site down, please let me know and I will immediately remove the site.


I will miss Robin, especially our vibrant and insightful discussions.
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Spiritual: a set of neurological processes dealing with value placement, empathy, and sympathy through the associative truncation of relative identity, and which has reached a value set capable of being described as reverent to the individual, and from which existential experience and reflection is capable explicitly.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Kriswest » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:34 am

Thankyou, I to have a son. Mine just turned 28 and has ,, ma'am I could tell you alot of similar things. The most iimportant thing I can tell you is, thank-you for giving him to us and the world. He lives within us.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Abstract

Postby motherofabstract » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:00 am

Jayson
I have no idea if you truly know my real name. It would probably be best to stick with this screen name for now.

Robin shared with me some of what you have posted, among other things. I believe that we do have this writing in its entirety but I have not been able to make myself search for it as yet. At least one family member has suggested that I ask you to remove it from the internet, but I know that Robin would not want this...notice what he says in the beginning or the 'text' about oppression...so leave it open to the public, please. I know that it wasn't finished. I guess I hoped that he would decide to stick around until it was finished...who knows...maybe he thought it was. I understand why you published it. I hope that by "essentially" you actually mean, truly, "as it was". He produced many other writings of a different sort. His poetry is wonderful.

It seems that he trusted you by sharing these writings with you via email. I am truly glad he felt he could entrust them with someone other than me. I may post more at some point, but at this point it is like tearing the stitches out of a sewn-up, gaping wound....
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Re: Abstract

Postby Jayson » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:24 am

I give all of my sympathy and compassion.

For your peace of mind, "essentially", simply meant that I did adjust the subject headings to center alignment for ease of reading and right aligned his post-script "God Bless" et. al. for the same reasons, but did not edit the content, grammar, font choice, or text color - per his wishes.

I will miss him so very much; I wish I could have known him in person.
He was very much an influence to me personally, and has been responsible for motivating me to continue my own work - which now I am very sorry that I did not produce more quickly as I know he was anxiously awaiting a personal copy of the work he was helping me with.

I am so very sorry, and I lack words and grace well enough to extend my love and compassion to you and your family.

-Jayson
>jaysonthestumps.blogspot.com
>Hebrew, Greek, and more similar resources on ILP

Spiritual: a set of neurological processes dealing with value placement, empathy, and sympathy through the associative truncation of relative identity, and which has reached a value set capable of being described as reverent to the individual, and from which existential experience and reflection is capable explicitly.
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