Abstract

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

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Re: Abstract

Postby Chakra Superstar » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:01 am

Thank you for letting us know that, motherofabstract.

It's good to know he had a parent he could communicate with on such a deep level. It's good to know he was not alone.

Our deepest condolences to you and your family.

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Re: Abstract

Postby motherofabstract » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:07 pm

Jayson
Thank you for this reply. Your adjustments to the text are appropriate. It took me two weeks after his death to gather the emotional strength to begin reading posts that were associated with Abstract. I wish I could have every word he ever wrote and I hope that his posts don't disappear before I can read it all. (I am still grieving and perhaps always will be...plus I am a single mom still working hard to provide...so time and energy is not something I have a lot of.)

Please consider sharing your works with me. I will be glad to read them.
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Re: Abstract

Postby motherofabstract » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:30 pm

Thank you Chakra Superstar and Jayson and all others who have offered their condolences.

Yes he did have constant love through out his life. His life was not always 'a bed of roses'...unless you take in to consideration the thorns that roses have. There were certainly trials that he had to endure, but I am sure that, aside from a few times of psychosis, he knew he was loved. He knew that he was not alone and had at least one person who he could share honestly with. I guess it is a consolation to know that I did provide, at least, that for him.

His statement "Love is the gravity of the soul" is one thought that he did not share with me. Since the moment that I realized that he had coined this phrase I have constantly pondered about it. About one month before he ended this life, I was alarmed by my intuition that he had shut off our connection. It was as if someone had drawn lead curtains between our souls. I frantically began trying to alert his other family members, his friend and his psychologist... I told them that something was more wrong than ever and that he was suicidal.

So I wonder...if "love is the gravity of the soul" does that mean that love has to be cut off before the soul can move on? Is it possible that our loving him so much caused him to stay, suffering, longer than he could bear?
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Re: Abstract

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:59 pm

To Robin's Mom,

As a mother, I know that there really isn't much one can say. I grieve for Robin and for your loss. As I write this, the tears are streaming down my face and I share your pain/I drink a little from your cup. Your words about your son are so beautiful and they painted a picture which I saw in him, within his essence, when I shared with him. Above everything, he was such a sweet beautiful Being.

Sometimes, the only real thing which can bring us "there" is a deeply-felt gratitude for those moments with someone we've lost (yet will never truly lose) and the eventual letting go of being "anywhere else" with him but in that place of gratitude and love.

~ as Rumi said....Thankfulness brings you to the place where the Beloved lives."

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And Love
SAPERE AUDE!


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Re: Abstract

Postby Silhouette » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:00 pm

motherofabstract wrote:if "love is the gravity of the soul" does that mean that love has to be cut off before the soul can move on? Is it possible that our loving him so much caused him to stay, suffering, longer than he could bear?

At a guess, assuming my mind works anything like his, I would say it was a physical description.

As a philosopher, one is constantly looking for more accurate and more exhaustive definitions in order to make sense of the world when others seemingly cannot (sufficiently). Poetry is not apart from this pursuit, and so concise, precise attempts often take the form of elegant aphorisms - such as love is the gravity of the soul.

What is love? Well, what do I know about love? I know it is a feeling, and that it feels longing, sincere and devoted. It feels heavy and strong, and runs through your entire being, through your soul. One cannot make such observations without being so well aquainted with such concepts, and one cannot give them such importance without the realisation that they have such significant effect on oneself and one's surroundings. I would think such a statement from one's son a cause for pride and peace, in the knowledge that he knew it so well.

I cannot claim I knew him very well or that I have any firm basis for this interpretation, but my views are that it makes a fitting epitath for a life well spent.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Orbie » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:48 pm

Motherofabstract:

Please accept my deep condolences to You. I would alsop lile to share my son"s suicide with You, who took his life 2 years ago. We could perhaps set up a special correspondence in this regard.As Your wound being relatively more recent than mine, perhaps, gives me an opportunity to share some of the attempts at healing, which I have tried, to help with our sorrow: God Bless : Obe. We could correspond on the open forum, or as personal communication.
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Re: Abstract

Postby scherado » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:02 pm

motherofabstract,

My condolences, too, for your profound loss. I'm looking forward to reading your son's writing that has been made available. Please indulge me in the following.

Your son has given me two gifts of which I am aware. I've been here a short time and addressed your son directly only once in a thread that he authored and in whose title I had an instant identification. As I've been writing here daily, I've regretted that I didn't expound on the solution that I broached: I vow never to make this mistake and in this regard, perhaps, his influence can have a perpetual effect as I have continuous interaction with men like him and those with chronic substance abuse.

I have been a member of a Fellowship for several decades which believes very strongly that those of it's members who lose their way or, worse, land in one of the three guaranteed destinations--jail, an institution or death--that they do it FOR the rest of us, meaning that our knowledge of what they do buys us more time, as our time is contingent upon a few simple things.

My personal, suicidal despair has been at bay for a year or so and I have no confidence that this will remain true: If I return there, then I will remember 'Abstract' and force the thought that he did it so I don't have to do it and save my family the horror of that funeral.

Thank you for your indulgence and thank you for posting. You seem like a very courageous person.

`S
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Re: Abstract

Postby motherofabstract » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:31 am

fuse wrote:Honestly Abstract has affected me quite a bit. I've been thinking about it a lot lately. I had recently been arguing with him in a thread about the indeterminacy of nature and then I participated some in his thread about his real life ordeal and being held against his will at a hospital. I really thought there was more to the story than Abstract was keen to discuss (like what his shouting and laying in the street really meant, or why his parents would sign the petition for him to taken to the hospital), but since it was so personal I wasn't going to push for more information. Even now, I realize what I'm bringing up might be uncomfortable to some, but mostly I can see no greater way to respect Abstract than to find him and his ideas worth reconsidering.


Fuse: I suppose it is difficult, but I agree with showing respect to Abstract in this way...his ideas are definitely worth reconsidering...I don't care how uncomfortable it might be. There is more to the story, of course.
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Re: Abstract

Postby gib » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:01 pm

I feel guilty that I hadn't noticed this until now. I saw a quote by Abstract in V-OutOfTheWilderness's sig which said R.I.P. but I thought it was some inside joke between him and Abstract. Then I stumbled across this thread. I can't believe that was real.

I have a mind now to go through a sample of his posts to get a feel for how he thought.

Now I wish I had conversed with him more, to get to know him better, maybe even gained some insight into his late predicament and offered some words of encouragement. But I don't know what I would say.

I'm reminded of the times in my youth when I was suicidal. I don't think anyone could have ever talked me out of my suicidal ideations--or even if they could, I would have felt manipulated instead of convinced, and I would have continued brewding in silence over how it should all end now.

I'm also reminded of how cock-sure I was that I could help other people with their problems. I had a girlfriend at the time who had some major psychological issues. I kept on trying to reassure her that she could tell me anything and that I would understand. I was a psyc undergrad at the time, and tried to convince her that this qualified me to understand whatever it was she was going through. Later, after we broke up, I found out just how disturbed she was, and how clueless I was to some of the things going on in her head before the breakup. I don't know if I would have been able to understand, or if I could have done anything to help her. It was quite humbling.

I find that a lot of the time, even in our most sincere efforts to offer words of advice or solace to those who appear to be suffering or in need of help, a part of us is really trying to help ourselves. Looking back now, I realize that the "wisdom" I wanted to bring to the table in trying to help my ex-girlfriend was really an effort on my part to persuade her to believe in my views, opinions, values, attitudes, and so on. I think a part of me did want to help, but it's obvious now that another part of me just wanted to spread my own beliefs onto another who was vulnerable at the time.

I had a fundamentalist Christian friend a while back who, whenever he noticed I was down in the dumps or troubled by something, would always seize the opportunity to make a convert out of me: "Trust in Jesus, Gibran. That'll get you through," he'd say.

We all do this, and I don't think we can help to do this, not all the time--indeed, it may sometimes be helpful to the other person despite what our true motives are. But I wonder if this is sometimes one of the reasons those whom we are trying to help resist us. I wonder if they can sense what we're doing: you're not trying to help me, they might think, you're trying to push your own views on me--you don't really understand, you don't really care.

Of course, we do care, but there is this eclipsing in the eyes of those we are trying to help--an eclipse of our selfless motives by our selfish ones, and all they can see is the selfish motive. I say this, not claiming to know what was going on in Abstract's mind, not even assuming he resisted any help offered to him, but knowing what was going on in my own mind back when I was depressed and suicidal.

So what could one say to someone in need of help? What would I say to Abstract? In Bowling for Columbine, Michael Moore put this question to Marilyn Manson in regards to the Columbine shooters. Manson replied: "I wouldn't say anything. I would listen."
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Re: Abstract

Postby fuse » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:03 am

motherofabstract wrote:Fuse: I suppose it is difficult, but I agree with showing respect to Abstract in this way...his ideas are definitely worth reconsidering...I don't care how uncomfortable it might be. There is more to the story, of course.

I'm not sure what made you want to venture into the site but you put a brave and loving personality to Abstract's family.
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Re: Abstract

Postby eyesinthedark » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:53 pm

Abstract was many things. Among those things, he was a nihilist preoccupied with egodeath, in addition to being a schizophrenic. Frankly, I'm not surprised he killed himself, in fact, other than fuse, I'm the only one who saw it coming.

From his belief that the microcosm contained the macrocosm, to his rejection of labels and rigidity, to his preoccupation with transgender and universal brotherhood, Abstract didn't have a strong sense of identity, of self, it seems like he didn't particularly enjoy being alive and being himself... resisting, struggling.

Life requires effort and a strong sense of self, of division, of separateness, all things he attempted to overcome via his philosophy. His ideal person was a watery one, one that could transform into others at will, one that encompassed all psychosocial variations within itself, a doppelganger of sorts, a mime, a shapeshifter, a voyeur.

What is death but a releasing, a letting go, transitioning from a relatively fixed, stable form, composition and constitution to a relatively transient one with infinite, unlimited potential to become anyone and anything?

Even schizophrenia and his belief that he could broadcast, transmit and receive thoughts was a blurring of the lines between self and other. What is schizophrenia but a breakdown, a fragmenting, a splitting, where the lines between the subjective and objective, between pathos and logos, between fantasy and reality, future, present and past, there and here, you and me, them and us begin to collapse. It's a disordering of the mind, and what is order but the opposite of balance and equilibrium, order more this than that, disorder more this, that and the other, occupying the same space and time? I'm not sure what experiences and genetics lead to this disposition (possibly negative ones?), I was aware of his essence, but not necessarily what brought it about.

Many people view suicide as a form of supreme selfishness and hedonism, of wanting to escape pain and suffering and caring little for the pain and suffering others will experience in your absence. However, there's another perspective which may apply to Abstract. Suicide could be seen as the deepest form of altruism and asceticism, where one ends his form, choosing to feed the world with his nutrients, or, less Abstractly and more personally, one perceives oneself as a burden on others and doesn't wish to burden them any longer.

Suicide is not something arbitrary or incidental to Abstract's life, suicide was the deepest expression and manifestation of who and what Abstract was. Even his name, Abstract, was an indication of who and what he was. He didn't want to be concrete, a particular, a monad with a strong sense of self and identity, of life, as life requires resisting the flow and transience of things. Rather, he wanted to blend in, to join, to merge, to lose himself in others and in the whole.

In summary, his philosophy and his personality was very Buddhist and nihilistic. He was very genuine, as his philosophy was an expression of his deepest self and longings, a philosophy preoccupied with death and the absolute nothing, everything or chaos as opposed to western philosophies and religions which are more preoccupied with the absolute something or order, each which is nowhere apparent in the world (absolutes, absolute nothing, everything or something). Life is the dynamic interplay of these two extremes, and he gravitated towards the former which is perhaps the more prevalent force in the world.
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Re: Abstract

Postby lizbethrose » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:30 am

Dear motherofabstract,

I'm very happy you were abstract's mother. It makes it easier to understand some of what he was.

I was, at first, totally shocked when I read about abstract's suicide. I read of it about 1/2 hr. ago and have spent the time reading the thread in an effort to settle my mind. I ran the gamut;--was I as nice to him as I could have been?; did I do enough to try to understand him?; did I really understand the gravity of his illness? But these were all thoughts of me rather than of abstract.

Now I only feel peace--almost a joy. Can you understand? I'm writing to you, not about Robin or what he was, but about me and how I feel about you. If I could hold you and rock you as my child, I would.
"Be what you would seem to be - or, if you'd like it put more simply - never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise."
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Re: Abstract

Postby motherofabstract » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:03 pm

eyesinthedark: I need time to ponder all that you have expressed but my initial reaction is gratitude that there are people that seem to have understood Robin. Sometimes I have felt that I was selfishly keeping him in this existence...for myself. (for example when he was recovering from heart surgery when only 8 days old and I bonded with him trying to entice him to stay in this existence and let me show him this world). I will write more soon...when I am not making myself late to work...but for now I want to say that, for the most part, I agree with what you have written about Abstract. You seem brave for daring to explain things this way.

lizbethrose: Thank you. I really want people to remember my son and his wonderful, exciting expressions...not just his illness. I cry, but yes, that is for myself...my loss...perhaps a little for him because I really hoped he could experience the joys of intimacy and I am not sure that he ever did...I cry because I selfishly miss him.

More to come
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Re: Abstract

Postby eyesinthedark » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:16 am

I edited, there were some ideas I wanted to flesh out, not to mention some spelling and grammar mistakes I wanted to correct.

eyesinthedark: I need time to ponder all that you have expressed but my initial reaction is gratitude that there are people that seem to have understood Robin. Sometimes I have felt that I was selfishly keeping him in this existence...for myself. (for example when he was recovering from heart surgery when only 8 days old and I bonded with him trying to entice him to stay in this existence and let me show him this world). I will write more soon...when I am not making myself late to work...but for now I want to say that, for the most part, I agree with what you have written about Abstract. You seem brave for daring to explain things this way.

It's not bravery, so much as I tend to revel in boldness, directness and divergence, which is not to say I'm being disingenuous.

I didn't know Abstract personally, so much as I knew him Abstractly, as a thinker, as a philosopher first and foremost.
Philosophically he struck me as a monist of sorts, someone who negated or relegated division and separateness.

For him, distinction was often illusory.
For example, an example he used, if I wrote a series of letters "randomly" - xryqu, it's meaningless to me, you, and anyone else, but if the universe is infinitely varied and vast, which I believe he tended to believe it was, though he was open to all possibilities (you could even say he lived more in possibilities than in actualities), then perhaps in some remote part of the universe, what I wrote was an extraterrestrial word, and if I wrote more words down, eventually and inevitably I'd wind up sentence, a paragraph, a book... you see where's he's going with this.

Of course there's some truth to this (the universe may or may not be infinitely varied and vast, so...), nonetheless it's all very fantastic sort of thinking and it tends to equalize all things, both in terms of what they are and the value we assign them, so that no thing and by extension person could be said to be (absolutely) x or y, or valuable or valueless, it depended wholly on context.
Furthermore, no thing could be said to be more meaningful than another, everything was equally meaningful or meaningless from an absolute, objective standpoint.

Another example, he believed the ideal person was a mix of male and female, white and black, young and old, and could become more like one or the other at will. When I urged him to take a personality test, he refused to be pinned down. Initially he received an enfj on myersbriggs (I thought he was an intp or infp), then he insisted on taking the test again and wound up with istp, to prove to me and to himself that he could have a dramatically different personality at a slightly different time, altering his personality at will even (did he have multiple personality "disorder" by chance?).

Life is contextual, of course, I tend to agree with this, though I have my reservations. However, I'm not sure if the universe is infinitely varied and vast or if the microcosm contains the macrocosm.
However, that's where Abstract began and ended, he never really fully went beyond that and dealt with the conditions and contexts he found himself in, or addressed the conditions and contexts humanity found themselves in, or at least he seldom did, was reluctant to, or didn't emphasize it. All was contextual and therefore, both existent and nonexistent from an "objective", neutral standpoint, both good and bad, male and female, this, that and the other.
For him then, life and distinction was a kind of illusion.
All was circumstantial, relative and situational, dynamic and ever-changing, flawed and imperfect, and therefore, all is one and the same, with an infinite potential to become anything and anyone... all is infinite potential.
The past wasn't important to him, what mattered was the present and the future, what you are and wanted to become. He believed human beings especially weren't limited by things like age, race, sex and their genetics, or that they could overcome them and become anything and anyone they wanted or needed to become, and that that ability and propensity, more than anything, is what made us who and what we are... human. Humanity then, perhaps more than any other species, was itself the embodiment of the deepest metaphysical principles of the cosmos, and Abstract believed that one day, all distinctions between people and perhaps even species would be blurred or dissolve and we'd enter a new golden age of universal brotherhood and oneness... or at least that's how I understood it.

The opposite sort of philosophy would be to say that things have an essence or, even an existence that never changes and isn't dependent on anything or anyone but itself, or natural or divine law, and that change and perspectivism are in some sense illusory - left brained absolutism and pluralism as opposed to right brained relativism and monism.

He'd use all kinds of clever tricks and wordplay to arrive back at this conclusion.
Additionally he was very preoccupied with spirituality, mysticism and death and what, if anything, lies beyond, again, as opposed to the here and now, his attention was forever elsewhere.

He didn't adhere rigidly to any particular philosophical or religious school of thought or cultural tradition, though I'd say his thinking had a great deal in common with Buddhism, Daoism and Zen (see Alan Watts). Of course it was too idiosyncratic and nuanced to fit in neatly and precisely with any other, especially more so his immensely peculiar psychosocial views.

What sort of person would be drawn to such a philosophy besides just saying, well, one who's wise since it's the correct one, or one who's foolish because it's the incorrect one? I'd say the absolutist and the pluralist desires drama, risks and rewards, wins and losses, and he wishes to cling to life, to capture and bottle it, where as the relativist and the monist wants to let go more, to abandon themselves to their feelings, their emotions, their improvisations and whims, creativity, playfulness and imagination, and that probably says something about Abstract. There's great freedom in such thought but also great indirection and less security. There's less of a right and a wrong, everything is open to interpretation and reinterpretation.

You can still be perspectivist (I lean towards perspectivism though not wholly, and my perspectivism is far more left brained and systematic, I begin there, but that's not where I end, my categories and conceptions are flexible, nonetheless I love to categorize and conceive) and be more pragmatic like myself and know that even if there is no static, objective, things out there, we can still make use of our perspectives and say, well this poison may be medicine to a cat and nothing to rock but that's doesn't change the fact that I'm not going to drink it and since you're more or less like me, human, I'd advise you not to drink it either... and of course Abstract did that, he had to in order to function in the world, but he tended to get lost in his perspectivism.
For him it was either one or the other it seemed, either a thing was something fixed and therefore something could be said about it, or it isn't and little or nothing could be said or thought, everything is just noise, static on your television screen, including you, including the screen.

For whatever reason he took his perspective of perspectivism to an extreme and thus lost touch with reality (not to say nothing physiological or neurological was occurring), a reality that was perhaps unkind to him in some ways, I don't know, perhaps physical complications (like you mentioned) with his heart in addition to his mental and social difficulties drove him to it, but let's not forget philosophy can shape our personality and not just the other way around. I believe his philosophy contributed significantly to his own demise... that's where that sort of thinking when taken to an extreme ultimately leads.
All extremes lead in death, from extreme positivism to extreme negativism... he happened to be negative in the philosophical sense. He wanted to drop out, to relinquish, to surrender, and perhaps more than anything, to merge, to become one with everyone and everything... maybe he had fear of abandonment issues, I don't know.
Where as I don't, I want to be myself, I want to live for as long as I can... which is not to say I don't have a dark side, on the contrary.

No matter the differences in our philosophies, I think we both recognized each other as thinkers, and even though we differed, for several months he kind of used me as a soundboard for the many ideas that were whirling around in his head, because even though we diverged on some key issued, he knew I would provide him with relatively objective, fair criticism and alternative points of view, and that I wouldn't be biased or prejudiced contra his ideas just because they were "weird" or other than my own... I think we both appreciated each others intellectual openness, and I'm sure many here felt that way about him.

We shared nothing personal, I wasn't his friend so much as his partner working on a project, or his philosophical associate, we kept personal discussions to a minimum.
I warned Abstract to get help, but either he didn't realize what dire mental straights he was in... or he didn't care. In a way, I'm not sorry he took his life, because I don't think he did so on a whim, even if he was going through a rough period mentally and physically. No one his age or even decades older explored the implications of life and death more than he, and he had many opportunities to seek additional professional and interpersonal help... yet it seems he choose not to, from what I gather.

He lived his life the way he wanted to, and he left many of his thoughts behind on this forum and other forums, and in that book he wrote on spiritual matters, no doubt he foresaw this and despite his whirling, twirling, transcendental philosophy, wanted to leave a little something of himself behind, a legacy, a little piece of immortality in a fluid world. No regrets then? At the very least before he died he could say he did it his way, he met life and death on his own terms, and for that... I admire him... many people can't say they same, their thoughts are other peoples thoughts, their feelings someone else's. Robin Anderson wasn't anything other what he appeared to be, he may not have disclosed everything about himself... who would, but what he did disclose was real, of that much I'm certain.
Last edited by eyesinthedark on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Abstract

Postby motherofabstract » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:13 pm

eyesinthedark I have seen this. It is so very perceptive. I have much to respond, but little time right now.

(Robin showed no signs of multiple personality disorder, was mostly suffering from recurrent delusions, paranoia and profound anxiety. He seemed to be experiencing more frequent and worsening bouts of psychosis related to his delusions and was most recently diagnosed with schizo-effective disorder with major depression. He was willing to try medication and talk therapy and had found a psychologist who could sort of keep up with him. I have many thoughts about treatment of this or any brain disorder...but for now, I mainly want to remind everyone that he was more than his illness...to the very end...he was stronger than his illness...to the very end)

I still ponder...but...thank you..for now.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Silhouette » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:55 pm

Maybe I'm just unobservant about these things, or simply don't believe in them, but I never even noticed Abstract had a mental illness.

Personally, I don't think anyone ever has or ever will take their own life for purely intellectual reasons. Nor do I think philosophy is dangerous or negatively impacting on anyone's will to live. It's far too much of an important decision to make for the sake of sober curiosity, just as it is to make on a whim. The will to suicide must necessarily be emotionally driven, and whilst it will always feel like it is long overdue when the time comes, it can only be finally decided for sure in a short enough space of irrational and mentally clouded time, such as to disallow for the inevitable rational self-doubt and clarity (and shame) that will always follow if one hesitates too long.

From what eyes says, and from what I know, Abstract was just familiar with "the void". Knowledge of the void comes when one truly understands the lack of objective/univeral/absolute reason to be any which way or another, because everything apparently definite must have a benchmark and assumptions in order to be firmly one way or another, yet those benchmarks and assumptions must also be backed up in the same way, and so on... and the floor disappears beneath you. How you react to the world once you have considered and understood the full extent of this is up to your personality. It leaves you open to death, though as I maintain, this is not enough on its own to drive one to explore death just as easily as one might choose to explore life, even though this is a perfectly reasonable quest for one who has come to know the void. There is human physiology at work that overrides even the deepest curiosity towards this end, though it is a flawed physiology, and under certain emotional circumstances just needs that extra "rationally justified" push.
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Re: Abstract

Postby The Golden Turd » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:05 am

This is the first I've read of his death.

If this forum can edit and write a commentary to his work, I'll print 3 copies, two for the library of Congress, and the last for the mother. I have most of my Industrial Paper Cutting and perfect bound binding boards back- my printer is out of ink but is simple to fix.

Unless you, Abstract, or the Mother, want to do it- it's relatively simple to do.... Kromekote makes good glossy cover paper, cutting the pages if over 40 sheets uniformly is simple. Only a ISBN is needed after that to be submitted. From that point on, his work will always be along side of other similar works.

If you want it to last longer you can make cloth based paper, and hard bind it, sewing it in.

I didn't know Abstract well enough to edit or feel comfortable commenting on his work.

If you get his work on the shelf there, he'll essentially will outlast you, or most of US. If the book is handmade with care and unique construction, and is made to last, it will be destined for a rare books room. Everytime the pain and grief becomes too much, you can dedicate yourself to making another in a more unique way. Maybe even take up western calligraphy, embellish his ideas with beauty.

And no, Christians don't automatically assume hell for suicides, judgement of the dead is out of our hands, and in Gods. We try our damnest to convince people to continue on. If he died of suicide resulting from insanity, he has a pretty decent excuse in my book, given he couldn't think straight anymore.

I wish the best for you, the mother and family of abstract, and to Jayson, Abstract's friend.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Jayson » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:19 am

Unless motherofabstract would rather you not, for my end of things as just the fellow that relayed Robin's work, feel free to print out that text from Robin that's on the website link I posted.
(providing motherofabstract approves)
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Spiritual: a set of neurological processes dealing with value placement, empathy, and sympathy through the associative truncation of relative identity, and which has reached a value set capable of being described as reverent to the individual, and from which existential experience and reflection is capable explicitly.
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Re: Abstract

Postby motherofabstract » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:50 pm

Contra-Nietzsche and Jayson: If you are speaking of Robin's Religious Text then I am sure that Robin wanted this to be freely accessed by any who wished to read it.
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Re: Abstract

Postby eyesinthedark » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:59 pm

It is not simply fear of death, it is fear of end. but then what is end but a concept, I mean what really ends. i would say that things do not end at all, things change, and it is rather that humans conceptualize a finite understanding of a thing that then results in the perception of the end of that thing when it changes beyond that conception. We are not taking a "thing" into account for its whole infinite lifespan as a changing thing.

See I disagree with what he wrote here and I believe some of his philosophy may have contributed (don't get me wrong, of course it could never be the sole factor) to his suicide, which is not to say I'm condemning his philosophy, or philosophy itself, I'm just making a point about the kind of thinker he was, the kind of person he was, and how these two worlds influenced, interacted and collided with one another.

Philosophy obviously has the power to radically alter our perspective on life and death, I don't think any of us would be here for as long as many of us have if we didn't really believe that.
What is philosophy but a kind of revaluation of our values and value itself as individuals and as a society?
It's a holistic process, you don't just radically alter your perspective of race, sex, life, death, right, wrong, politics, economics, psychology, relationships, science and religion, in a bubble, in a vacuum, without it having some bearing on how you evaluate and interact with these fundamental categories of existence.
I believe even epistemology and metaphysics has some indirect bearing on our lives.
Philosophy is powerful!
How could you be the same person after reading Plato's Republic, David Hume's An inquiry concerning human understanding, Schopenhauer's The world as will and representation, or Nietzsche's Thus spoke Zarathustra?
If you're the same person then..you're not...thinking.

Abstract makes some valid points about life and death and how all things, including human beings, are continually changing.
What he's doing here is blurring the lines between self and other, between life and death, so there's no you to die in the first place, let alone a precise birth or death.
If you really believe this with all or even a good portion of your heart and mind, I'm thinking it's going to quell some of your fear of death.
I mean sure, humans are emotive, instinctual animals, as Sil rightfully and validly points out, so of course, there's always going to be emotive, personal factors at play, especially regarding a matter as grievous as this, nonetheless we're also highly cognitive animals, and it is our high cognitive powers that have given us the capacity to self-terminate in the first place, so you can't argue that how we intellectually conceive of life and death, has no bearing on our will to live, when the very fact that we can conceive of life and death, gives us the option to self-terminate in the first place, it's what separates man from beast.

It's true, human beings aren't static entities, that we're always changing.
You could say that every moment we're dying and being reborn as something new.
Scientists tell us our cells are being continually regenerated with nutrients and energy and even common sense will tell you this... I mean, what are we doing with all that food we're consuming daily besides crapping it out?

I wasn't the same person I was five years ago. Sometimes we go through a traumatic event and it irrevocably alters our personality, so much so that friends and family may say, the old eyes is gone, he's just not the same person anymore.
Nonetheless I argue, even though all things change, including us and everyone we're attached to, and here's my argument - my death is a far, far greater change to me, to what I am, than any other change that has happened to me since my birth.
I'll repeat.
My death is a far, far greater change to me, to what I am, than any other change that has happened to me since my birth.
Even though I have gone through significant changes in the past 10 years, I can identify intellectually and emotionally a lot more with myself, 10 years ago, than I can with a corpse or plant food.
So death is not just like getting a hair cut, hey, I'm a new person, the old me is gone... it's far, far more profound than that.

That's the fundamental difference between a thinker like Abstract and myself. He used philosophy to undermine common sense conceptions of reality, where as I use it to strengthen common sense and build upon it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm critical of common sense, it's just that common sense tends to be more/less correct from my experience, our most basic understanding, though it could use a great deal of refining and articulation, it's not as flawed as he believed it to be.

I found that I was more a builder of systems where as people like Abstract tore systems down, right-brained, destroyers of thought, or what they perceived as rigid thought, leaving us open to a more dynamic, fluid, spontaneous way of conceiving things that can't really fully be put into words, giving us over to our improvisations and our feelings.

His philosophy was like a mix of Heraclitus and Parmenides. The dynamic relativism of Heraclitus with the oneness of Parmenides. Him and I were polar opposites in some ways, not all ways but some.

This thread is a tribute to Abstract, the light, the dark, and everything in between.

How many of you really knew him or understood him... how many of you cared to?

------ ------ ------

One of his virtues was he genuinely wanted to understand and respond to what you were saying. Even if you held opposing views, even if you were a staunch catholic, a right wing extremist or a nuts and bolts materialist, he'd exchange with you, he was willing and able to hear you out. Sometimes he understood what you were attempting to say better than you yourself, and was always more than able and willing to offer you relevant, insightful feedback and criticism with ease.

Abstract was a very intelligent person, he grasped the most Abstract, sophisticated ideas with an ease few others could muster. He had a very imaginative, creative and unusual way of arguing for his positions and against others, and we had some very stimulating discussions throughout our participation here.
Last edited by eyesinthedark on Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Silhouette » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:58 pm

It is not simply fear of death, it is fear of end. but then what is end but a concept, I mean what really ends. i would say that things do not end at all, things change, and it is rather that humans conceptualize a finite understanding of a thing that then results in the perception of the end of that thing when it changes beyond that conception. We are not taking a "thing" into account for its whole infinite lifespan as a changing thing.

I agree with this just fine. Maybe I understood him and knew him without knowing. I did get the impression that we tended to fundamentally agree in many ways - probably why I didn't identify any mental illness or reason to be concerned about where he was headed.

I also agree that philosophy can be used in order to justify things to oneself that might otherwise be counter-intuitive. I'm just saying that the impetus to do so needs to be there first - philosophy is just a tool. Philosophy is passive and people are active - the person may drive philosophy in order to drive his or her self, but not the other way around.

To think of death as more significant than anything else that will happen to you since you are born is to start from common sense. One might call it "rare sense" that enables one to start from other points. It is fundamentally an artificial displacement of value, but one commonly seen in philosophers, at least in a mild case when they try to discover "objective truths" as though they originate from some other point than the subjective value to want to do such a thing in the first place. Philosophy can be a much more controllable and straightened-out escape from an inner turmoil that struggles to be tamed. When looking at oneself from outside, one can feel a lot more "objective" and orderly. That's my take, but admittedly it is just speculation.
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Re: Abstract

Postby eyesinthedark » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:12 am

I also agree that philosophy can be used in order to justify things to oneself that might otherwise be counter-intuitive. I'm just saying that the impetus to do so needs to be there first - philosophy is just a tool. Philosophy is passive and people are active - the person may drive philosophy in order to drive his or her self, but not the other way around.

Well said, I don't necessarily agree with everything else you wrote, but it's enough.
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Re: Abstract

Postby motherofabstract » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:55 pm

One of his virtues was he genuinely wanted to understand and respond to what you were saying. Even if you held opposing views, even if you were a staunch catholic, a right wing extremist or a nuts and bolts materialist, he'd exchange with you, he was willing and able to hear you out. Sometimes he understood what you were attempting to say better than you yourself, and was always more than able and willing to offer you relevant, insightful feedback and criticism with ease.


I do see this as a tribute.

I am fairly sure that Abstract wasn't trying to convince others of his opinion or convert those he philosophized with to his way of thought. Most of the time he seemed to be trying to prove his own theories flawed, thus giving himself the opportunity to improve them. He also seemed to know/intuit/grasp when a person he was theorizing with/against had reached their limit of understanding for that moment and, although sometimes disappointed or frustrated by this, refrain from pushing them so far from their comfort zone that they rebounded further backwards into the confines of their own limits.
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Re: Abstract

Postby _________ » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:52 pm

In my hiatus from the board, I missed this thread, and thus this unfortunate news. I bid a belated farewell to a bright mind and formidable opponent in chess; may he have found the answers that he sought. I give my condolences to the bereaved.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:12 pm

Jayson wrote:After receiving the terrible news, I decided to electronically publish his work on a website essentially as it was.
The Religious Text of Robin Anderson

I wanted to share this with you and your family because I'm not sure if any of you were ever able to see this before, and I also wanted to provide Robin's interest to share his truth's to the world.

This was truly great of you to do, Jayson.
Would be nice to see you back here.
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