Abstract

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Abstract

Postby Carleas » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:39 pm

I regret to say that the poster who we knew as Abstract died on Monday. He had been struggling with mental illness, and on Monday he took his own life. The death of a young, promising mind is always tragic, and made worse by the thought that the world might have convinced him to make another choice. But life can be hard on minds like Abstract's, a mind burdened and made brilliant by the way that it different from the norm. The world is often cruel towards brilliance.

Abstract's posts in the weeks leading up to his death show the philosopher, exploring to the last. We might have preferred for him to have made another choice, but we can be sure that his choice was not impulsive, and that he approached it with all the intellectual curiosity and skeptical inquiry of Socrates himself. A month ago, in sadly prescient words that he later repeated, he questioned death itself, and in retrospect his words ofter some solace:

"[I]t is not simply fear of death, it is fear of end. but then what is end but a concept, I mean what really ends. i would say that things do not end at all, things change, and it is rather that humans conceptualize a finite understanding of a thing that then results in the perception of the end of that thing when it changes beyond that conception. We are not taking a "thing" into account for its whole infinite lifespan as a changing thing."

His family has asked that donations in his memory be made to National Alliance on Mental Illness.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Flannel Jesus » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:46 pm

Sometimes I forget how real people are, in person but especially online. It's so easy to forget. It's a bit ironic that Abstract is more real to me now than he ever was before. He's very real now.

Death is beautiful and terrifying and the realest thing that I can think of.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Silhouette » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:08 pm

Always a shock when someone who has been part of your life dies. News of suicide seems to meet me with a certain chill, and I am always saddened and regretful that interractions with deceased people may no longer continue. I can only imagine how much this is magnified for family and closer friends - I hope they pull through as best they can. Only 6 hours before his sister announced the news was I speaking favourably of him:

Silhouette wrote:Abstract no doubt considers himself a philosopher and he comes across as a highly intelligent guy, if troubled and perhaps a little overly imaginative
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Re: Abstract

Postby Only_Humean » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:37 pm

This is shocking. And tragic; that a bright, inquisitive, open mind could find no way to avoid such a path. Carleas has written eloquently, I can't add much. My condolences to those who have lost a son, a brother, a friend.

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Re: Abstract

Postby iambiguous » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:49 pm

I tried a couple of times myself. But I found folks able to bring me back around. I'm truly sorry Abstract wasn't able to do the same. But we can only go so far inside the pain of another. And who really knows what is on the other side.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
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Re: Abstract

Postby Orbie » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:37 am

Deeply felt condolences! A sad repeat of my own son's suicide a year ago.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
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i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
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Re: Abstract

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:51 am

Sad. Pretty shocking really. I dunno man. Very sad.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Kriswest » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:15 am

He is somewhere causing something to learn and think, he like all energy has not ceased, only changed. May you call em as you see em Abstract, you will be missed.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Mowk » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:58 am

consider his signature "Love is the gravity of the Soul" I'm not a big proponent of a soul and it still made me stop and think.
my goal in life is to die and no one notices.
in other words; to live as audaciously as possible while drawing the least attention. Or at best something vaguely similar.
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Re: Abstract

Postby fuse » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:51 am

Abstract wrote:Regardless of whether it is true or not I can further say that part of my raving is simply a result of tiredness of dealing with whatever the fucking problem is. So you know it is possible that on some subconscious level I decided to lie down in the road because i do just want to end it all. But nonetheless after the primal screaming and getting out i felt quite the bit better and had no longer any need of hospitalization and such feel that it was unfair that i was detained without the ability to argue against my detainment. And now I unfortunately feel that I can't risk talking about my beliefs with people as it may result in involuntary hospitalization as it happened to be what should be my most trusted ones my parents that signed the petition.

And that is where I stand at the moment :shock: X|

He seemed afraid of an imminent choice between two options- incarceration or hiding who he was. This is an eerie comparison:



Socrates on Trial, Apology by Plato

--------
          I am convinced that I never willingly wrong anyone, but I am not convincing you of this, for we have talked together but a short time. If it were the law with us, as it is elsewhere, that a trial for life should not last one but many days, you would be convinced, but now it is not easy to dispel great slanders in a short time. Since I am convinced that I wrong no one, I am not likely to wrong myself, to say that I deserve some evil and and to make some such assessment against myself. What should I fear? That I should suffer the penalty Meletus has assessed against me, of which I do not know whether it is good or bad? Am I then to choose in preference to this something that I know very well to be an evil and assess the penalty at that? Imprisonment? Why should I live in prison, always subjected to the ruling magistrates, the Eleven?

       I should have to be inordinately fond of life, men of Athens, to be so unreasonable as to suppose that other men will easily tolerate my company and conversation when you, my fellow citizens, have been unable to endure them, but have found them a burden and resented them so that you are now seeking to get rid of them. Far from it, gentlemen. It would be a fine life at my age to be driven out of one city after another, for I know very well that wherever I go the young men will listen to my talk as they do here. If I drive them away, they will themselves persuade their elders to drive me out; if I do not drive them away, their fathers and relations will drive me out on their behalf.

        Perhaps some might say: But Socrates, if you leave us will you not be able to live quietly, without talking? Now this is the most difficult point on which to convince some of you. If I say that it is impossible for me to keep quiet because that means disobeying god, you will not believe me and will think I am being ironical. On the other hand, if I say that it is the greatest good for a man to discuss virtue every day and those other things about which you hear me conversing and testing myself and others,
for the unexamined life is not worth living for men, you will believe me even less.

        I was convicted because I lacked not words but boldness and shamelessness and the willingness to say to you what you would most gladly have heard from me, lamentations and tears and my saying and doing many things that I say are unworthy of me but that you are accustomed to hear from others. I did not think then that the danger I ran should make me do anything mean [unworthy], nor do I now regret the nature of my defense.
Neither I nor any man should, on trial or in war, contrive to avoid death at any cost.

        You too must be of good hope as regards death, gentlemen of the jury, and keep this one truth in mind, that a good man cannot be harmed either in life or in death [...] What has happened to me now has not happened of itself, but it is clear to me that it was better for me to die now and to escape from trouble. So I am certainly not angry with those who convicted me, or with my accusers. This much I ask from them: when my sons grow up,avenge yourselves by causing them the same kind of grief that I caused you, if you think they care for money or anything else more than they care for virtue [...] Reproach them as I reproach you, that they do not care for the right things and think they are worthy when they are not worthy of anything.

       Now the hour to part has come. I go to die, you go to live. Which of us goes to the better lot is known to no one, except the god.

--------


If Abstract were still here, the only thing I would suggest to him is this part: "that a trial for life should not last one but many days"
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Re: Abstract

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:17 pm

The sadness is now ours. Abstract is beyond it. A beautiful soul, now reaching beyond what we know. May the God of love comfort family and friends.
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Re: Abstract

Postby V-OutOfTheWilderness » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:55 pm

Ierrellus wrote:The sadness is now ours. Abstract is beyond it. A beautiful soul, now reaching beyond what we know. May the God of love comfort family and friends.

Yes yes! The death of my son destroyed my family. It was a very hard hitter. And I saw the same loss destroy my uncle's family. The loss of a child is a parents worst nightmare.

All prayers and good thoughts to his family. Hang in their. Much love and compassion your way.
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Re: Abstract

Postby anon » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:20 pm

I'm so sorry to hear this. I confess I don't know what to say. My thoughts are with his parents, his sister... anyone who was close to him.
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Re: Abstract

Postby Stoic Guardian » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:39 pm

I was corresponding with him quite often for the past few months except this last one as my computer needed to be fixed, I wish I Had been able to speak with him and find out what in particular was troubling him.

Never Recalled him speaking of Suicide, we talked Politics, Philosophy, Theology etc.

Played Games chatted during then.

He was an interesting Character, from how he spoke often and especially in the last thread he made I think the frustration he was having was a result of an excessive amount of Empathy and his apparent inability to come to terms with other peoples Apathy.
Last edited by Stoic Guardian on Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Fascism combats, and must combat, without respite or pity, not intelligence, but intellectualism—which is, as I have indicated, a sickness of the intellect" - Giovanni Gentile

”After visiting these places, you can easily understand how that within a few years Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived. He had boundless ambition for his country which rendered him a menace to the peace of the world, but he had a mystery about him in the way that he lived and in the manner of his death that will live and grow after him. He had in him the stuff of which legends are made.”- John F. Kennedy
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Re: Abstract

Postby Orbie » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:53 pm

How old was Abstract? Does anyone know more about him, was he living at home, going to school?
This really resonates because my son took his life a year ago, and there was no inkling. I too feel overburdened by the thought that I could have said X number of things to connect. My son was 33.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
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Re: Abstract

Postby V-OutOfTheWilderness » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:06 pm

obe wrote:How old was Abstract? Does anyone know more about him, was he living at home, going to school?
This really resonates because my son took his life a year ago, and there was no inkling. I too feel overburdened by the thought that I could have said X number of things to connect. My son was 33.

As I understand he was 25 yrs old. See my tagline ...
"By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher."
~ Socrates

There's a serpent in every paradise ...

The question mark is shaped like a serpent ???

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It's not God I have a problem with. It's his fan club ....
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Re: Abstract

Postby Stoic Guardian » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:08 am

He lived with his Father.
Apparently he did some work for Missile defence programs or something like that.
"Fascism combats, and must combat, without respite or pity, not intelligence, but intellectualism—which is, as I have indicated, a sickness of the intellect" - Giovanni Gentile

”After visiting these places, you can easily understand how that within a few years Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived. He had boundless ambition for his country which rendered him a menace to the peace of the world, but he had a mystery about him in the way that he lived and in the manner of his death that will live and grow after him. He had in him the stuff of which legends are made.”- John F. Kennedy
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Re: Abstract

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:59 am

Man the whole city of Huntsville is into missiles and rockets and all that stuff. Extremely high concentration of engineering types. He really shoulda come to Birmingham. There are a lot more philosopher types here, and a lot more crime. I can't tell you how many people I know have done things similar to what he described himself doing while out in the road and for the most part you just stuff em in the car and take em home. It's crazy. When I was 14 I got my hands and feet zip tied together and I was thrown in a van and taken to a facility for people on drugs, even though I'd never done any drugs. It's a weird place to be when you're under the mental microscope.

Either way, a terrible tragedy. I mean there's always some pleasure to be had no matter where you are in life. Sometimes you just gotta suspend all philosophical discourse in your mind and sink into the superficiality of life. It can be looked down on at times, but it's a useful tool when the world gets to be too real.
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Re: Abstract

Postby PavlovianModel146 » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:55 am

There's nothing I can add here, R.I.P. Abstract.
"Love is the gravity of the Soul" - Abstract -/-/1988 - 3/11/2013 R.I.P

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Re: Abstract

Postby Ben JS » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:33 pm

He was brave enough to place the bet... R.I.P

---

How'd you find out he committed suicide?
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Re: Abstract

Postby V-OutOfTheWilderness » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:38 am

Joe Schmoe wrote:How'd you find out he committed suicide?

His sister signed on as Abstract and told us ,,, and Administration was told also.
"By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher."
~ Socrates

There's a serpent in every paradise ...

The question mark is shaped like a serpent ???

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It's not God I have a problem with. It's his fan club ....
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Re: Abstract

Postby Helandhighwater » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:14 am

Only sane mod I ever met, I liked him, I am genuinely upset he is gone. People who you remember and genuinely get on with are hard to forget. Tragic: thoughts to family and friends. Kinda been messing around on other threads, talking shit, you know the usual, didn't want to come to this one 'til I had thought about what I wanted to say: sure he was just an acquaintance, sure I never really knew him, but the fact I will miss him nonetheless, speaks volumes: a unique honest and clever man. A rare soul in the world.
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Re: Abstract

Postby V-OutOfTheWilderness » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:42 am

Helandhighwater wrote:Only sane mod I ever met, I liked him, I am genuinely upset he is gone. People who you remember and genuinely get on with are hard to forget. Tragic: thoughts to family and friends. Kinda been messing around on other threads, talking shit, you know the usual, didn't want to come to this one 'til I had thought about what I wanted to say: sure he was just an acquaintance, sure I never really knew him, but the fact I will miss him nonetheless, speaks volumes: a unique honest and clever man. A rare soul in the world.

I don't know Abstract at all ... don't even think I ever had a dialogue with him ... maybe ... but don't think so.

But I read the threads where he express his struggles with his demons (as an expression, not literally.)

And reading just those threads was all it took for Abstract to move and grab my heart. As a result, as crazy as it sounds, I've been having dreams were a shapeless Abstract is a presence ... and a force behind the scenes.

Does the dead come to us? Yes! The dead visit us in our dreams. My dad and my son visited me the other night. It was so nice to see them again. I woke up happy and in a good mood. Hope they visit again real soon. The welcome mat is always out for them.

R.I.P. Abstract ... and visit your loved ones ...
"By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher."
~ Socrates

There's a serpent in every paradise ...

The question mark is shaped like a serpent ???

Degrees from the University of Divine Quackery (UofDQ).

It's not God I have a problem with. It's his fan club ....
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Re: Abstract

Postby Helandhighwater » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:41 am

V-OutOfTheWilderness wrote:
Helandhighwater wrote:Only sane mod I ever met, I liked him, I am genuinely upset he is gone. People who you remember and genuinely get on with are hard to forget. Tragic: thoughts to family and friends. Kinda been messing around on other threads, talking shit, you know the usual, didn't want to come to this one 'til I had thought about what I wanted to say: sure he was just an acquaintance, sure I never really knew him, but the fact I will miss him nonetheless, speaks volumes: a unique honest and clever man. A rare soul in the world.

I don't know Abstract at all ... don't even think I ever had a dialogue with him ... maybe ... but don't think so.

But I read the threads where he express his struggles with his demons (as an expression, not literally.)

And reading just those threads was all it took for Abstract to move and grab my heart. As a result, as crazy as it sounds, I've been having dreams were a shapeless Abstract is a presence ... and a force behind the scenes.

Does the dead come to us? Yes! The dead visit us in our dreams. My dad and my son visited me the other night. It was so nice to see them again. I woke up happy and in a good mood. Hope they visit again real soon. The welcome mat is always out for them.

R.I.P. Abstract ... and visit your loved ones ...


That's odd but somehow interesting.

I don't sugar coat my words with people, and I certainly don't feel the need to do so, but I did genuinely like Abstract he had a way about him that both put you at ease, and made you think. I spoke to him both on threads and in PM. The only mod I ever thanked for banning me, 'cause sometimes like him I do go off the rails and lie down in the street, all be it figuratively in my case. That may be because I am slightly crazy to, but as I said to him in my last post, all the best people are. I just found it sad that he was gone. I had a friend who was Schizophrenic who eventually learnt to deal with it, perhaps that is why it resonates with me?
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Re: Abstract

Postby James S Saint » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:58 am

Born and raised in the wrong place at the wrong time, ever feeling the lack of compassion and understanding so sorely and truly needed.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
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From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

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It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

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