well delivered movie lines

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

Moderator: MagsJ

well delivered movie lines

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:54 am

I thought I'd try at a topic to share some appreciation of things most posters will probably have a shared interest in.

The reason I come up with this particular topic is that I I recently saw Apocalypse Now (the redux, which I had not seen before and which roots the film into its political context, as a result of which I became more involved), and I am intrigued by the way Marlon Brando comes into his acting very late in the long monologue about the Vietnamese warrior mentality. I feel the bulk of it is a bit contrived, but it suddenly is startlingly evil, when the actor applies all this horror to himself. He says:

"If I had ten divisions of those men, then our troubles here would be over very quickly."

Not a great line per se, but it is so convincingly delivered that it accumulates all the random cruelty of the film prior to that moment into a bit of sense of purpose, which then is even more disturbing than the a-moral chaos we have seen so far.

I must say that I'm generally just as interested in romantic comedy as in poetic war films.
Before the Light - Tree of Life
Image
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 7844
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby PavlovianModel146 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:44 am

If I may ask, would you take issue with me moving this to Arts, Music & Entertainment?
"Love is the gravity of the Soul" - Abstract -/-/1988 - 3/11/2013 R.I.P

Image
User avatar
PavlovianModel146
Ringing The Bell
 
Posts: 7084
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:56 am
Location: Ohio

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby Faust » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:58 am

Richard Crenna's speech in First Blood. To Brian Dennehy. Maybe the best ever.
User avatar
Faust
Unrequited Lover of Wisdom
 
Posts: 16748
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 6:47 pm

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby PavlovianModel146 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:28 am

Alec Baldwin did a pretty good job on his closing argument in Nuremburg.

Kevin Spacey's speech to his wife in American Beauty ending in, "I rule," was pretty hilarious.
"Love is the gravity of the Soul" - Abstract -/-/1988 - 3/11/2013 R.I.P

Image
User avatar
PavlovianModel146
Ringing The Bell
 
Posts: 7084
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:56 am
Location: Ohio

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby iambiguous » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:34 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
"If I had ten divisions of those men, then our troubles here would be over very quickly."



I always had my own misgivings about that line. It doesn't really address the fact that one can use those ten divisions to further the aims of any particular Kingdom of Ends. On the other hand, I always liked it because it didn't attempt to argue that any one particular Kingdom of Ends is necessarily preferrable to any other.

And I always liked this line from Captain Willard:

"Charging a man with murder in this place was like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500."
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 26901
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby tentative » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:37 am

From the same movie: "I love the smell of napalm in the morning."
IGAYRCCFYVM
Sorry, arguing with the ignorant is like trying to wrestle with a jellyfish. No matter how many tentacles you cut off there are always more, and there isn't even a brain to stun. - Maia

I don't take know for an answer.
tentative
.
 
Posts: 12390
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby Trevor » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:50 am

"The only good bug, is a dead bug."
Trevor
 

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby tentative » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:50 am

About 8 minutes of lines, but unforgettable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH4p9BQ3V9o
IGAYRCCFYVM
Sorry, arguing with the ignorant is like trying to wrestle with a jellyfish. No matter how many tentacles you cut off there are always more, and there isn't even a brain to stun. - Maia

I don't take know for an answer.
tentative
.
 
Posts: 12390
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby iambiguous » Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:09 pm

tentative wrote:About 8 minutes of lines, but unforgettable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH4p9BQ3V9o


Still, everything is context here. Suppose instead of dropping a balloon filled with paint on a car, George Willis Jr. and the boys had burned down a campus building or been involved in a sexual assault or murdered someone? What would constitute integrity on the part of Charlie Simms then?

Should he rat them out or not? Would that be the couragous thing to do?

Movies often manipulate us emotionally. Everything is always more black and white than the shades of gray world we live in.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 26901
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby tentative » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:21 pm

iambiguous wrote:
tentative wrote:About 8 minutes of lines, but unforgettable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH4p9BQ3V9o


Still, everything is context here. Suppose instead of dropping a balloon filled with paint on a car, George Willis Jr. and the boys had burned down a campus building or been involved in a sexual assault or murdered someone? What would constitute integrity on the part of Charlie Simms then?

Should he rat them out or not? Would that be the couragous thing to do?

Movies often manipulate us emotionally. Everything is always more black and white than the shades of gray world we live in.

We always know the right thing to do in the black and white world, it's the grey areas that do us damage, and that was pretty much what his speech was about. Integrity is in the small things, not the obvious should-shouldn't.
IGAYRCCFYVM
Sorry, arguing with the ignorant is like trying to wrestle with a jellyfish. No matter how many tentacles you cut off there are always more, and there isn't even a brain to stun. - Maia

I don't take know for an answer.
tentative
.
 
Posts: 12390
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby iambiguous » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:46 pm

tentative wrote:We always know the right thing to do in the black and white world, it's the grey areas that do us damage, and that was pretty much what his speech was about. Integrity is in the small things, not the obvious should-shouldn't.


But the context upon which Charlie's integrity rest is a rather grey area. Should he rat on George Jr. and his rich kid friends for participating in a stunt that resulted in a car being damaged by paint?

But the stunt could have been considerably more grave. The movie portrays Trask, George Jr. and "the boys" in a very unfavorable light. Which makes it easier to react to Charlie's behavior as a nominal betrayal only. The sleazeballs deserved to be humilitated or punished---but not the angelic [ordinary guy] Charlie.

This can only be predicated however on how we react to what the sleazeballs did to Trask. Change that and our reactions might change as well.

But this will always be embedded in the narratives of particular daseins. There is no exact line we can draw between Charlie did the right thing and Charlie did the wrong thing.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 26901
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby von Rivers » Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:24 am

Lawrence of Arabia...

User avatar
von Rivers
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5792
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:24 am

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby iambiguous » Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:35 am

Monooq wrote:Lawrence of Arabia...



One man's river is another man's dam.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 26901
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:38 pm

PavlovianModel146 wrote:If I may ask, would you take issue with me moving this to Arts, Music & Entertainment?

Not at all.
Before the Light - Tree of Life
Image
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 7844
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:55 pm

trevor wrote:"The only good bug, is a dead bug."

Indeed that is a well delivered line. If I am not mistaken this film is directed by the same man who directed Robocop, which also has some memorable performances. Especially the character of the gang-leader and his boss Dick Jones deliver their lines well.

tentative wrote:From the same movie: "I love the smell of napalm in the morning."

That's probably the best line in the movie. But it's delivered so casually, as if he says "I love the smell of coffee in the morning".

iambiguous wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
"If I had ten divisions of those men, then our troubles here would be over very quickly."



I always had my own misgivings about that line. It doesn't really address the fact that one can use those ten divisions to further the aims of any particular Kingdom of Ends. On the other hand, I always liked it because it didn't attempt to argue that any one particular Kingdom of Ends is necessarily preferrable to any other.

No, Coronel Kurtz is beyond any such value judgments. I think the film makes a very strong turn in introducing Kurtz after first having made it clear that Vietnam is no place for morality, as described in the line abut speeding tickets you quoted. Before we see him, the viewer is led to think that it cannot possible be worse or less moral than the arbitrary death we are treated to at every juncture. But then it is. "It smelled like slow death in there".
Before the Light - Tree of Life
Image
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 7844
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:20 pm

Faust wrote:Richard Crenna's speech in First Blood. To Brian Dennehy. Maybe the best ever.

Are you being serious? I have not seen this film, I have always avoided it with some zeal. Should I reconsider?

PavlovianModel146 wrote:Alec Baldwin did a pretty good job on his closing argument in Nuremburg.

I do remember getting quite involved, but I remember no specifics. Is there any line in particular that stands out?

Kevin Spacey's speech to his wife in American Beauty ending in, "I rule," was pretty hilarious.

For me the best delivered line for that film is: "It's okay, I wouldn't remember me either". I still want to say that to someone, if the occasion presents itself.
Before the Light - Tree of Life
Image
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 7844
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:36 pm

iambiguous wrote:
tentative wrote:About 8 minutes of lines, but unforgettable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH4p9BQ3V9o


Still, everything is context here. Suppose instead of dropping a balloon filled with paint on a car, George Willis Jr. and the boys had burned down a campus building or been involved in a sexual assault or murdered someone? What would constitute integrity on the part of Charlie Simms then?

Should he rat them out or not? Would that be the couragous thing to do?

Movies often manipulate us emotionally. Everything is always more black and white than the shades of gray world we live in.

That's exactly what they are meant to do, and do all the time, I would say. Film is in a sense a continuation of the art of rhetorics. To place a perspective in a context, so as to make it believable and acceptable, to an audience that is at first uninvested. This very effective scene is a good example of how you can make any issue seem like the world is at stake.
Before the Light - Tree of Life
Image
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 7844
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:37 pm

Monooq wrote:Lawrence of Arabia...


Strong delivery indeed. Very theatrical.
Before the Light - Tree of Life
Image
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 7844
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby Faust » Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:48 pm

Yes, FC, I am serious. The movie is a very good but not great action/thriller type. Crenna just eats this speech for lunch, though. A little bit comic-book character, but that what i like about it.
User avatar
Faust
Unrequited Lover of Wisdom
 
Posts: 16748
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 6:47 pm

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:56 pm


A guy getting told he's going to kill someone. (1:00)

What's well delivered is the fear, rather than the striking of it. (Although if you haven't seen this movie watch it --- it completely trumps morality, extremely Hegelian, positing determination (absolute spirit) as culminating from slavery through suffering and suffering overcome, to pride and then victory. This order of things, this is the genius.

I get the impression that it's the position of the American writers guild, that this is the first American in French -- but in being this, it surpasses the American film. Nothing is added, but one thing subtracted: prefabricated morality. A morality is being built up.
Before the Light - Tree of Life
Image
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 7844
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby iambiguous » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:01 pm

iambiguous wrote:
I always had my own misgivings about that line. It doesn't really address the fact that one can use those ten divisions to further the aims of any particular Kingdom of Ends. On the other hand, I always liked it because it didn't attempt to argue that any one particular Kingdom of Ends is necessarily preferrable to any other.


Fixed Cross wrote:No, Coronel Kurtz is beyond any such value judgments. I think the film makes a very strong turn in introducing Kurtz after first having made it clear that Vietnam is no place for morality, as described in the line abut speeding tickets you quoted. Before we see him, the viewer is led to think that it cannot possible be worse or less moral than the arbitrary death we are treated to at every juncture. But then it is. "It smelled like slow death in there".


It was never really established in the film that Colonel Kurtz was even sane. To wit:

Willard: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound.

Kurtz: Are my methods unsound?

Willard: I don't see any method at all, sir.


There are always value judgments. It is only a question of jamming all the conflicting ones together and coming up with the least dysfunctional behaviors. But this can never be more than a point of view. Kurtz's own included folks dangling from trees and decapitated heads strewn about everywhere.

The moral narrative I impose on Vietnam revolves around political economy and the assumption that those who prosecuted the conflict were less interested in democracy and human rights for the South Vietnamese and more concerned with preventing the falling Commie dominos from taking more and more cheap labor, natural resources and markets from the folks who owned and operated Wall Street and Washington D.C.

Morality "out in the world" has far more to do with the whims and the wherewithal of wealth and power than with the carefully calibrated philosophical propositions we get from folks like Aristotle and Kant.

Virtue? That's always been for sale. It's just that some folks want to rationalize things bought and sold as Virtue.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 26901
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:03 pm

"Heavy is good, heavy is reliable... if it doesn't work you can always hit him with it."

Last edited by Fixed Cross on Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Before the Light - Tree of Life
Image
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 7844
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby Oughtist » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:07 pm

The essence of a commanding argument:

Things are apparent.
User avatar
Oughtist
Para-philosopher
 
Posts: 2877
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:42 am
Location: Epiphoneminal Max

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:21 pm

iambiguous wrote:I always had my own misgivings about that line. It doesn't really address the fact that one can use those ten divisions to further the aims of any particular Kingdom of Ends. On the other hand, I always liked it because it didn't attempt to argue that any one particular Kingdom of Ends is necessarily preferrable to any other.

On second thought, I think that it precisely does address this - ! perhaps the line as it is written does not, but the delivery is too convincing to take lightly. I find it the most frightening part of the entire play of perspectives.

Fixed Cross wrote:It was never really established in the film that Colonel Kurtz was even sane. To wit:

Willard: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound.

Kurtz: Are my methods unsound?

Willard: I don't see any method at all, sir.

Yes, you're right. Beautifully written.

There are always value judgments. It is only a question of jamming all the conflicting ones together and coming up with the least dysfunctional behaviors. But this can never be more than a point of view. Kurtz's own included folks dangling from trees and decapitated heads strewn about everywhere.

But what do you think that was he doing there in the first place? What might he have thought, on his way over, possibly on a similar boat-ride?

The moral narrative I impose on Vietnam revolves around political economy and the assumption that those who prosecuted the conflict were less interested in democracy and human rights for the South Vietnamese and more concerned with preventing the falling Commie dominos from taking more and more cheap labor, natural resources and markets from the folks who owned and operated Wall Street and Washington D.C.

In Vietnam the military industrial complex came to light. From what I gather (in large part through film) is that this was the death-blow to American morality, from which it is now properly beginning to suffer. And meanwhile, "communism" (statist dictatorship) is triumphing all over the world.

Morality "out in the world" has far more to do with the whims and the wherewithal of wealth and power than with the carefully calibrated philosophical propositions we get from folks like Aristotle and Kant.

In a word: will-to-power.

Virtue? That's always been for sale. It's just that some folks want to rationalize things bought and sold as Virtue.

Yes, that is true of course, and it has always been. The truth wears a friendly mask.
Before the Light - Tree of Life
Image
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 7844
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: well delivered movie lines

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:28 pm

Faust wrote:Yes, FC, I am serious. The movie is a very good but not great action/thriller type. Crenna just eats this speech for lunch, though. A little bit comic-book character, but that what i like about it.

What else do you like, that is somewhat in the same vein?
Before the Light - Tree of Life
Image
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 7844
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Next

Return to Non-Philosophical Chat



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users