De’trop wrote:
That was exceptional witty.
Warrior Monk wrote:
This seems awfully out of character for you. Are you being facetious, or is there something about Slobodan Milosevic that you find admirable? Just curious…
That’s sort of a joke. Milosevic was a Bolshevik Socialist police-state wielding dictator, yimach shemo vzichro, may his name and memory be obliterated. But he did do some good things, like kill a few guilty, mass murdering, Saracen, Muslim, Osama-worshiping, Bosnian, Jihadi terrorist Nazis for noble Serbia and Western Christendom.
I am, however, very credulous that Monk finds a great deal admirable in the racist monster Baruch Goldstein.
Warrior Monk. I’m thinking of reading Rimbaud. What’s your impression of him?
Rimbaud was a drug addict, a flaming homosexual, and a slave trader. A completely immoral Satanic degenerate who is definitely burning in eternal hellfire as we speak.
My impression of him is that we was a boy genius until he turned to a life of sin and that he was the greatest French poet – which isn’t really saying much because the French are philistines who have no culture and no appreciation or respect for the arts whatsover.
This is worth reading:
ROMANCE
I
When you are seventeen you aren’t really serious.
- One fine evening, you’ve had enough of beer and lemonade,
And the rowdy cafes with their dazzling lights ! - You go walking beneath the green lime trees of the promenade.
The lime trees smell good on fine evenings in June !
The air is so soft sometimes, you close your eyelids ;
The wind, full of sounds, - the town’s not far away -
Carries odours of vines, and odours of beer…
II
- Then you see a very tiny rag
Of dark blue, framed by a small branch,
Pierced by an unlucky star which is melting away
With soft little shivers, small, perfectly white…
June night ! Seventeen ! - You let yourself get drunk.
The sap is champagne and goes straight to your head…
You are wandering ; you feel a kiss on your lips
Which quivers there like something small and alive…
III
Your mad heart goes Crusoeing through all the romances,
- When, under the light of a pale street lamp,
Passes a young girl with charming little airs,
In the shadow of her father’s terrifying stiff collar…
And because you strike her as absurdly naif,
As she trots along in her little ankle boots,
She turns, wide awake, with a brisk movement…
And then cavatinas die on your lips…
IV
You’re in love. Taken until the month of August.
You’re in love - Your sonnets make Her laugh.
All your friends disappear, you are not quite the thing.
- Then your adored one, one evening, condescends to write to you…!
That evening,… - you go back again to the dazzling cafes,
You ask for beer or for lemonade…
- You are not really serious when you are seventeen
And there are green lime trees on the promenade…
September 29, 1870
ROMAN
I
On n’est pas sérieux, quand on a dix-sept ans.
- Un beau soir, foin des bocks et de la limonade,
Des cafés tapageurs aux lustres éclatants ! - On va sous les tilleuls verts de la promenade.
Les tilleuls sentent bons dans les bons soirs de juin !
L’air est parfois si doux, qu’on ferme la paupière ;
Le vent chargé de bruits, - la ville n’est pas loin, -
A des parfums de vigne et des parfums de bière …
II
- Voilà qu’on aperçoit un tout petit chiffon
D’azur sombre, encadré d’une petite branche,
Piqué d’une mauvaise étoile, qui se fond
Avec de doux frissons, petite et toute blanche …
Nuit de juin ! Dix-sept ans ! - On se laisse griser.
La sève est du champagne et vous monte à la tête …
On divague ; on se sent aux lèvres un baiser
Qui palpite là , comme une petite bête …
III
Le coeur fou Robinsonne à travers les romans,
- Lorsque, dans la clarté d’un pâle réverbère,
Passe une demoiselle aux petits airs charmants,
Sous l’ombre du faux-col effrayant de son père …
Et, comme elle vous trouve immensément naïf,
Tout en faisant trotter ses petites bottines,
Elle se tourne, alerte et d’un mouvement vif …
- Sur vos lèvres alors meurent les cavatines …
IV
Vous êtes amoureux. Loué jusqu’au mois d’août.
Vous êtes amoureux. - Vos sonnets la font rire.
Tous vos amis s’en vont, vous êtes mauvais goût.
-
Puis l’adorée, un soir, a daigné vous écrire … !
-
Ce soir-là , … - vous entrez aux cafés éclatants,
Vous demandez des bocks ou de la limonade … -
On n’est pas sérieux, quand on a dix-sept ans
Et qu’on a des tilleuls verts sur la promenade
29 septembre 1870
"ideal political system: America of the Founding Fathers
ideal social system: Western Judeo-Christendom "
Monk, I would like to see how you would respond to this. It is a section from a Frank Zappa autobiography where he is talking about issues involving the Church and State. Assuming that these quotes are not frauds, I think they may have an impact on your two choices above and how the corespond with one another.
"The revolutionaries who got this country started were not a bunch of wig-headed Jeezo-Grovelers, whimpering for guidance from The Unseen Hand. Speak up, boys…
The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine- George Washington
It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg- Thoman Jefferson
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church- Thoman Paine
I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature- Thomas Jefferson
The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma- Abraham Lincoln"
What say ye, Monk?
“It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible” – George Washington
“Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prorate myself before Thee.” – George Washington
“Bless O Lord the whole race of mankind, and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and Thy Son, Jesus.” – George Washington
“Of all dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens.” – George Washinton
“To the distinguished character of a Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of a Christian.” – George Washington
"I believe in one God, Creator of the universe… That the most acceptable service we can render Him is doing good to His other children… " – Benjamin Franklin
“I have lived, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth – that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?” – Benjamin Franklin. Address at the Constitutional Convention Thursday June 28, 1787
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” – Thomas Jefferson
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever.” – Thomas Jefferson
“The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart.” – Thomas Jefferson
“We have staked the whole future of American civilization not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments.” – James Madison
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other.” – John Adams
“The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity, and humanity.” – John Adams
From Paul Johnson’s History of the American People:
“The second day of July 1776 will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America…it will celebrated by succeeding generations as a great anniversary festival. It ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.” – John Adams
“One great advantage of the Christian religion is that it brings the great principle of the law of nature and nations, love your neighbor as yourself, and do to others as you would that others should do to you – to the knowledge belief and veneration of the whole people. Children, servants, women as well as men are all professors in the science of public as well as private morality…The duties and rights of the citizen are thus taught from early infancy to every creature.” – John Adams
"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His mercy, to implore His protection and favor… That great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that ever will be, that we may then unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people. " – George Washington
I am a God fearing Patriot just like my Founding Fathers. God bless America and God bless Israel.
I had my doubts before, but now I know for sure. You’re yanking our chains. Bless you sir, you had us all going. Good game, man, good game.
It’s annoying, joke or not. Plus, it’s crude, and crass. The pictures are innapropriate and grotesque, and he does nothing but pose as a distraction to rational thought.
Good game my ass.
"The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine- George Washington "
Hmm…
Perhaps you’re right, Monk. This statement only says what was the case, not necessarily what Washington would have wanted it to be. So that means he did a terrible job getting things started, wouldn’t ya’ say? That, or the fella couldn’t make up his mind between your quotes and mine.
No matter. I submit. The country was founded by a bunch of Jezzo-Grovelers, I was wrong.
Anyway, Monk, I can’t say I’m comfortable with what I have seen from you so far. Initially you gave a sermon on Truth and Kant which was acceptable but somewhat short, then, suddenly, you start talking about “God” as if we have already determined what that is. The thread becomes a slippery slope as we progress and these simple one liners that you keep posting aren’t really helping much. I’ve got an idea. Try explaining one of these ideas at length, give examples, have some effect. I see your intelligence because I can find patterns in your thinking and there is some amount of self consistency, which, mind you, doesn’t mean to me that you are correct in your reasoning, but rather only that you are capable of being methodological. This is why I believe that it is worth speaking to you here…but you must understand that I need more than what you offer to work with. Who knows, I might actually be agreeing with you at places where it seems I am not.