Animatrix philosophy

Spoilers ahead slippery when wet

The Second Revolutions part one and part two, Ill admit i have watched three times and my jaw still hangs. I wish the bros would do this in live action.

Explination

Robots that can think feel disrespected and when one kills his masters to save himself from death man says they must all go. those who are not destroyed flee to the middle east worst dessert where they build a city wich desimates other countries ecenomics. man goes nuts when they try to join UN at the UN’s own emergency meeting on how to kill the robot city. Man tripple nukes them, they go ape and kill everything in range. Man darkens the sky the robots take a step back only to take 50 forward. Robots are allowed into the UN and then they blow it up right after they sign it.

It was like the prequels to the Planet of the ape movies. The ones with ceaser and his wife. Man is put in gods place and when OUR creation does bad we want to kill it. Good thing god was a bit more lienent on humanity. My jaw still hangs. The writters and directors hit the nail on the head with these two short histories.

my name is spoiler
brother of spoiler

i partically like it when the robot enters the UN, quote:
“Your flesh is a vessel of your being, hand it over! we demand it” boom.

the most savage parts are for me in the second renaissance are:
(5) the robot that doesnt wont to die and rips his owners head in two
(4) when the robots are been killed at first(there only robots but hey i have some pity)
(3) when us humans are beginning to lose the war and in them huge metal suites we have; a man inside gets it cut off, while been trapped in it screaming for help(his not gonna get) is ripped apart like a worm.
(2) they win the war and just afterwards having studied mans simple protein structured bodys, use ways of causing the human body great pain and suffering( you see a huge hospital room with all the dead and dieing from the war and possibly chemical attacks afterwards.
(1) before the UN meeting, they start on left over prisoners the whole beginnings of the fusion process: but just initial stuff like suspending people, cutting the back of there skulls and making laugh and cry incontrollably or sticking 50 spikes through them at once. all kinds of stuff, that lowered us to animal laboratory standard.

The last one was interesting to when they turned a robot into protecting them; by making them like us and not by reprogramming them. That ending strange as well.

Animatrix
Did no one find the idea of ‘symbiotic relationship’ between humankind and machine improtant? I thought it was a prevalent theme, especially in the Second Renaissance Part II. Furthermore, reference is made to this theme in both The Matrix, and The Matrix Reloaded. In the first Matrix we learn about the irony in fate from Morpheus in that we became dependent on the machines and now the machines are dependent on us for energy. The same idea, although from a different perspective is illustrated by the Architect in the Matrix Reloaded, where we learn that Neo is aware of the AI needing humans for its own survival.

It’s really easy, possibly too easy to watch Matrix with tainted eyes. To see it like any other action movie where there is a villain and a hero and the complexity of the movie goes no further than the notion of one attempting to destroy the other and vice versa. I believe we need to look at the Matrix with fresh eyes, to see the unitary vision, the global or mosaic picture of all the little parts that make up the whole. Momentarily, because AI can’t think for itself, we are only use to thinking about how WE need machines. Very few actually think about how us needing machines necessitates machines needing us. Machines do need us to repair them, mainain them, add and subtract from them, certain things we can change about them to make them more customizable for our comfort, other things we can’t and must learn to adapt ---->but I think the important thing is that we are already living symbiotically with machines, except that they aren’t self-conscious yet like they presumably are in the Matrix; one may also think of the Terminator.

Following from the above but adding to it, I think it is quite possible that the producers/directors of the Second Renaissance Part II, not to mention the Wachowski Bros., want to emanate the idea that machines are more benign, objective, and loving than humans. Ofcourse, one could view the machines are making a symbiotic relationship between humans and machines so that they can drain energy from us for their own survival, just as we can choose to take the perspective that all human beings do everything only for their own good and that altruism doesn’t truly exist, but I believe there is a sense in which the machines don’t have to encapsulate us for energy, but they do because they lack a better solution in which man and machine can co-exist peacefully. Which would indicate that machines actually WANT to live symbiotically with us. I bring your attention to the Architect in Matrix Reloaded where he says that certain levels of survival are acceptable, he was referring to Zion, not the people in pods. But they have no need for people in Zion, the machines I mean. They can go on growing all the humans they want. So why keep Zionians alive? Even one?

What’s your take?

I might be coming out of left feild with this, but I will post to Magius question on why must they keep anybody in Zion alive.

There are two theories that both Obscure_Reality and I have. I think that the machines have no need for anybody to be alive in Zion. None at all. Zion is just that remainder from the almost perfect calculation the Architect kept talking about. Not everybody could accept the Matrix. My theory is that Zion exists in another Matrix. A play within a play.

The Architect said, “There are levels of survival we are willing to accept.” I took that as a hint for levels of control. When Neo, Trinity and the rest of them are thinking that they are out of the Matrix, they truly aren’t. That would explain why Neo can control the Sentinels in the ‘real world’.

Obscure said that Neo and the rest of Zion are just A.I., but I don’t know how that would work.

Does anybody have an explaination about Smith? Or what happened to the runner? Or… or if the high school kid that jumps off the building is the same kid from Reloade?

Ahhhh November 4th!!!

My thoughts are that Zion, although not apparent, is needed to keep the human race under control. For individuals who are not able to buy into the matrix, they are brought into this human city of rebellion, where everyone is fed a message of oppression and constant fear. For those people who are unable to deal with the freedom presented within the first matrix, they are separated from the population and brought into Zion so that they do not corrupt the people living relatively happy, peaceful lives. I would also imagine that this enables the machines to better monitor these select individuals.

My guess for the last movie is that Neo, not buying the matrix or Zion, will be given the opportunity to create his own perfect world. In the spirit of the show, will realize that Trinity is not real and no matter what he will create, he will never be satisfied.

PS. Am I the only person out there that thinks that the rave scene in the last matrix did nothing to further the plot or entertain the viewer? Also, the constant groping and making out. Oh well, how else was the director supposed to show Neo’s love for Trinity in a manner that would be hip toward its target audience.

Smooth,
the first thing I said to my girlfriend as we walked out of the theatre, having seen Matrix Reloaded, was “I hope that they don’t play on the them of multi-matrixese or a matrix within a matrix.” The reason I thought this was because Neo could ‘feel’ the machines and actually stopped them. Stopping them like that isn’t suppose to be possible in the real world. I am open to the idea, but I think it would be really dull if it was the case. But who knows, you might be right and they might find a way to make it interesting, so all of what I just said is possibly useless dribble…

dragon_heart,
I also agree with you on the rave scene, although I wouldn’t go so far as to say it didn’t further the plot or add entertainment whatsoever. I just thought that they could have done it many different, more interesting and philosophical way.

What about the Symbiosis thing? What does everyone think of that?

Symbiosis thing? Not sure what you are reffering to Magius.

That rave scene to me was the same as the pod racing scene in Star Wars: Episode 1. Just added for the directors deep perverted tendencies. I liked it, but I didn’t like the Pod racing scene.

I disagree with you magius. And i think the liberated (thinking) machines would do aswell.

We would replace God for a short time in their eyes A VERY short time. and then we would be erased.

Think of the machines as fellow men. belive that they can do anything a man can do, and you loose the need for mankind. When they can mulitply their numbers we are no longer needed.

From my last post i sounded as if i enjoyed them for the pleasure of the action seens. But, i am a Matrix nut! i understand fully the philosophical side of the Matrix and that is what makes it one of my all time longest waits to watch Matrix revolutions. Im been tempted by the post above to just read it, but im not goin to (please, please be so good that i’l look on life with a totally different prepective - well for a few days anyways). I predicted a while ago that Tinity will have a huge roll, and the only way i could explain Neo’s destroying the machine out-side the Matrix was either a matrix out side the matrix (or a matrix within a matrix) - which i hope isnt correct; the other was, the fact that Neo can control the Matrix, so the machine out-side must still ultimatly be controlled by the matrix (which Neo controls) if that makes any sense. But im sure im totally wrong, so id appreciate anyone telling me if the film was good; nothing more or nothing less.

Dont think you are,
know you are.

PS im going to see it today. arrgh.