What's in a name?

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

Re: What's in a name?

Postby Mowk » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:12 pm

Sorry, I listened to the vid. Anyone who calls another person a retard, because they aren't aware of something is the retard. Correlation is not proof of causation. If my mom wasn't a two pack a day smoker I'd have been born full term, not the 5 lbs scrawny ass baby I was, that spent his first three weeks on the planet in an incubator. So was I born when I popped out of my mom like a little fart or when I was pulled from the incubator finally able to breath, eat and shit on my own? I wasn't expected until October, but I made it on the scene in early Sept. I was born a product of my mom's behavior more than that of natures.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:03 pm

Seems Ive touched a nerve.

Astrology always does that with people desperate to avoid self knowledge.

Obviously your moms habits are in both your moms and your chart.

Don't look now!

" Anyone who calls another person a retard, because they aren't aware of something is the retard."

This is bona-fide endearing.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:09 pm

It is a dangerous business knowing oneself.

Why Delphi is high up in the mountains, I suppose. Only those fond of climbing in the first place would be recommended to look at themselves.

You're talking to a physicist, by the way. You seem to be unaware that most scientifically established relations are only observed relations, not explained ones. Like the correlation of mass and gravity is no proof of causation. There is no such proof. And yet gravity is considered law - because the correlation occurs without exception, exactly as it does in astrology.

Please don't make a complete douchebag out of yourself by making any more claims about a field you haven't researched. I hate being made to look down on people I used to respect - it ruins my fucking mood okay?

Be a fucking man and do the work or shut up.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Mowk » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:30 pm

I flipping could agree with you more Fixed about knowing the truth of self.

So do I enter by birth date and time or the moment I was pulled from the incubator? If birth date and time was all that mattered. I'd have had a pretty short chart. I was born blue and not breathing. It would have been a pretty short chart.

Spare me your mock respect. If by astrology I can only ever be a douchebag, then I'm fine if that's all I am to you. See you're just another nut job to me, claiming to have reasoned everything is explainable in the position of the stars. That's some serious fucked up self delusion.

So you believe you know yourself... and you credit astrology for this awareness. Could be, but you just sound sort of messed up to me. I don't respect people for what they believe, I respect them for how they behave toward their fellow planeteers. Good luck with that.

So you're a physicist, huh? a real one or one like the biologist, and scientist Urwrongx1000 claims to be? Well I'm the Son of freaking man, sort of like the biologist Urwrongx1000 claims to be.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:47 pm

Mowk wrote:I flipping could agree with you more Fixed.

So do I enter by birth date and time or the moment I was pulled from the incubator? If birth date and time was all that mattered. I'd have had a pretty short chart. I was born blue and not breathing. It would have been a real short chart indeed.

A chart is just the map of the situation around you when you became your own little EM system, its neither short nor long.

But you ask a legitimate question here. Did you become your own system, when you were born or when you came out of the incubator?
Since I know few people who were in incubators Ive not researched that. But what seems likely to me is that the moment you came out of the incubator is a significant chart for you.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Mowk » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:12 pm

But what seems likely to me is that the moment you came out of the incubator is a significant chart for you.


Well they didn't put that nice piece of information on my birth certificate, I have looked for the records of my stay in the hospital after my birth. I was born on a military base that doesn't even exist any more. Even finding a record of the military base is a mystery. The last time I looked up the address of the hospital on my birth record it turned out to be a private residence that was built 2 years before I was born.

But if you're dead it would be a pretty worthless map. My sister gave birth to twin boys, both still born. They have names and birth records and are buried with our parents. She even had them baptized to insure they went to heaven. Can't really fault anyone for a belief. The world is full of myths masquerading as truths. I try not to judge anyone too harshly, particularly those who can guess again.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:21 pm

Mowk wrote:
But what seems likely to me is that the moment you came out of the incubator is a significant chart for you.


Well they didn't put that nice piece of information on my birth certificate, I have looked for the records of my stay in the hospital after my birth. I was born on a military base that doesn't even exist any more. Even finding a record of the military base is a mystery. The last time I looked up the address of the hospital on my birth record it turned out to be a private residence that was built 2 years before I was born.

Damn. Thats pretty interesting origins.

But if you're dead it would be a pretty worthless map.

Well, yes. Much is worthless when you're dead, I presume.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Mowk » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:37 pm

I might as well have a chart created for every date and time between my actual birth and my expected birth date, and throw a dart.

For all I know the choice to pull me from the incubator was sort of like, he looks ripe to me. Let's call his mom and tell her the good news.

She told me she was released from the hospital the morning after I was born and that I didn't go home with her, she never told me when I was released from the hospital. Three weeks is an inference based on my weight at the time of my birth and how fast I was likely to put on two pounds and the date I was expected. That is all I have to go on. I don't personally remember any of the details.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:45 pm

I'm a Chinese fire dragon and a Sagittarius...

I know from my high school class that astrology was bullshit.

I have great signs, but so did they.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Mowk » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:06 pm

So all this time of study, and the question never came up before? I can understand how that could happen.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:17 pm

No, astrology of incubator births hasn't been a specialty of mine. Im sure countless theses and probably some books have been written on it though. Though it could be said that my Turus cousin who was in an incubator has a lot of Gemini qualities this is nothing to go on at all, everyone has Gemini qualities as Gemini was somewhere whenever someone was born, and this is one case in one hypothesis. Astrology is only interesting where great masses of evidence point to a fact. Being a body of methodological applied knowledge, it is approached as a science or not approached at all.
Id reckon your natal chart is accurate in any case - your stage in the incubator would for example have been a progressing moon in the 12th house coming out at the ascendant or rather the 4th house cusp point at the moment of your release.

If Id approach it I could probably tell when you were released from your natal chart.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:29 pm

Ecmandu wrote:I'm a Chinese fire dragon and a Sagittarius...

I know from my high school class that astrology was bullshit.

I have great signs, but so did they.

Fire Dragons and Sagittariuses are extremely vain, presumptuous, and wise.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby surreptitious75 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:08 pm

Can you explain how your knowledge of astrology has actually affected your life in any positive way
Something for which there is no other explanation so it could not have happened to you otherwise
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:32 pm

Like any science enriches a scientists life; most dominant of all effects it has is a constant being in awe of these majestic realities. A constant awareness of the astronomical situation around me is also an advantage. And it has helped me make people understandable to themselves but that is never completely undivided pleasure. Ive not yet tried to make money with it.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:35 pm

It makes the world a lot more vast and complicated, it confronts you with a lot of titanic facts, and it shows that "sense-making" in a contemporary way isn't really very advanced.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby surreptitious75 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:11 pm

I was anticipating you saying that it gives meaning to your life in the same way a belief system does
That you have found peace of mind as a consequence of it but you seem to be saying something else

I have zero knowledge of it and would never actually use it myself but I am interested in what human beings believe and why they believe what they do
You say you are in awe of majestic realities but you could have that without astrology so maybe for you it just makes the awe that little bit more special

I am in awe of things in majestic realities like black holes and neutron stars for example and more so because I can understand them through physics
The more you understand something like this then the greater the appreciation is although we are using entirely different means of appreciation here
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:23 am

It gave me the opposite of peace of mind as I was immersed in it in some moments that shattered me when I was 20, I also had suddenly weird magical powers and my coherent causal linear universe was shredded. It was so horrifying to find that no rational law Id know applied to this. But I learned to live with it and eventually learned ways to navigate my own chart.

I used to want to be an astronomer, or I was an amateur astronomer until I was 16 when I got a video camera and turned to filmmaking. Then this weird crisis came and then astrology came into the picture. It is really not such a merciful science. I found out how tremendously taxing my chart is and how it was bound to keep bringing me down, next to all kinds of lofty powers, and I simply confronted it and wrought some understanding of myself in relation to some powerful and unorthodox authority figures due to some personal alchemy in my psyche using the psycho-chemical substances of the solar system and the zodiac.

Gods as they exist in pantheons are always correspondences to planets, and these correspondences are always the same ones, regardless of culture or age. Astrology doesn't give value judgments and doesn't deify the planets, it is rather an observation of what exists, what kind of frictions of qualities are at the core of this or that being. It is impersonal. A bad tempered or ill intended chart reader could ruin someones psyche by making a very accurate but partial and particularly cruel analysis. And that happens, then they sell you ointments, and magical boons. You can see into someones psyche infinitely sharper than you can with psychoanalysis. But then when you see truly deep, I also tend to see situations there people might rather not be aware of, and which might indeed be disturbed into unnatural motions when some partial light of understanding is cast upon it.

On the other hand if you're out to make someone dependent on you, a natal chart is an invaluable tool.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:35 am

Its much sooner a burden than that it makes life easier - but in turn it is sooner a treasure than a burden. Its ... power, its not tame.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:37 am

I talk about neutron stars here a bit, at the end.

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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Mowk » Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:36 am

Fixed Cross wrote:You're talking to a physicist, by the way.


So you're a physicist, huh? a real one. Got a masters degree at least and working in the field? Employed for a long time unraveling the mysteries of the universe?

I won't ask the second half of my question again, cause it would be an insult to someone who is a physicist. I teach at a tech college, you can find my name as a faculty member. You could even search on the classes I teach. I'm interested in a lot of shit besides that, but I don't claim to be anything but what I am.

You don't have to provide answers to shit I ask. But a scientist would ask the question.

So if I knew your name and googled your company I'd find some validation you are the physicist you say you are? I've been around the block a time or two. Smells like something other then the genuine artifact. You know how many people claim the role of authority in argument of their point? A lot. Most of it is bullshit. But every once in a while I meet the actual true to earth artifact. It would be a pleasure.

I'd actually have some questions for you that a physicist would have no trouble answering. My nephew was an astrophysics major. I asked him a problem relating to the design of an airfoil. It took him a day to respond with the degree of inclination I needed for the structure I was trying to create. And he was a full time student and tutoring math on the side. You back off from the second grade question I have asked like it would require some special training.

A real scientist would have began with that as a control condition. Who really signs your pay check?

Then lets discuss your notion of ego. I got a monster, hows yours stacking up? Sorry no credentials required to post a YouTube video under a made up username. Not impressed.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Mowk » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:45 am

Certificate of Live Birth. Florida. 1360 USAF Hospital, Orlando Florida. 7624 Waring Avenue.
D.O.B: Sept xx 1959. Birth weight: 5 lbs. 1 oz.
Father, 1st Lieutenant. U. S. Air Force.
Mother xxxxxxxxxxx
2 previous births. No twins or triplets. Not really that specific.

7624 Waring Ave, Orlando, FL 32812 | Zillow
[Search domain http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7624- ... 3826_zpid/] https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7624 ... 3826_zpid/
The property at 7624 Waring Ave, Orlando, Florida is a Residential Single Family property, built in 1957.

1360 USAF Hospital, Orlando Florida, 1959. Google that and see what you find. But of course internet records don't go back that far.

So how valid would any astrological chart be? Ya think it's going to reveal anything about who I really am? Not if DOB is the only thing you've got to go by, and in my circumstance that's sort of iffy.

Fixed Cross wrote:Seems Ive touched a nerve.

Astrology always does that with people desperate to avoid self knowledge.

Obviously your moms habits are in both your moms and your chart.

Don't look now!


Yeah I tried to look. So I guess it doesn't always do that to people.
But truth onto self, that's a pretty good place to begin. So unless you've got some job at MIT or something. Anything to back up the claim "that You're talking to a physicist, by the way."

Even Ted Talks gives the name of their speakers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORUUqJd81M
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Mowk » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:15 pm

I also checked into the role of preemies on astrology. Most references sighted no effect. It's your date of birth regardless.

Found a site for a free chart, don't know the time of birth but they had an option unknown T.O.B.
Sort of half right half wrong with a lot of saying something positive in one aspect and the opposite in another aspect. Really far off with regard to my need for order and arrangement. Also I'm suppose to be a social person that makes friends easily and with high sense for style. Not so much, Introvert and I don't give a rats ass about style.

All in all I didn't find the interpretation very informative, revealing or particularly accurate regarding knowledge of self. I know myself better than astrology does.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby promethean75 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:02 am

Also I'm suppose to be a social person that makes friends easily and with high sense for style. Not so much, Introvert and I don't give a rats ass about style.


That's where the vast ambiguity of astrology comes in. Probably also part of it's development as a pseudo-science. There has to be a way to explain what first strikes you as inaccurate as in fact being fully explained... if only you look closer.

Joe's sun sign has him as introverted, but he doesn't feel that way at all. Ah, it's because his rising sign is a cardinal fire sign, aries. But wait, he doesn't have a temper like a typical aries. Ah, it's because his moon is in virgo. On and on these go to explain away all the discrepancies.

Oh there's certainly explanations for these things, but they have nothing to do with the position in space of Neptune and Pluto when you popped out of the womb.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby Mowk » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:31 am

Seems like the genes you are born with would be far more useful in explaining character traits.
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Re: What's in a name?

Postby surreptitious75 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:50 am

I do not know what someone reading my astrological chart would be able to tell me about myself that I do not already know anyway
I also cannot see any logical connection at all between the moment of my birth and the position of the planets at that specific time

I think it is wrong to even label astrology as a pseudo science because that is giving it too much credibility when it has absolutely no scientific basis at all
Astrologers are not scientists and psychology and psychiatry are much better disciplines at understanding human nature more than astrology will ever be

I think it came from a time when scientific explanations for natural phenomena were not as accepted as they are today and religious ones were much more favoured
Of course it was science that discovered that the Earth was not the centre of the solar system so any astrological chart before then would have been seriously flawed
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