Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

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Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Maia » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:15 pm

Seasonally Affected Disorder, or S.A.D. gets me every year sometime around October, and it seems to be getting worse with each passing year. I can literally feel my energies drop. Any suggestions as to what I can do to alleviate it?
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby barbarianhorde » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:58 pm

First gather energies in some way. Maybe use some frequency conditioners to become aware of where the energy is and goes. Iv not listened to this but my friend says it helps him adjust to the change between day and night, because he works at night.



I believe we are theoretically disposing over all the nuke energy in our cells. I got this from some yogi guru who said yoga can withstand the nuclear bomb. Its not that I then think oh wow he says it so it must be true, I think the boldness on this guy, where does get off staying this, to himself I mean. How does he get so strong willed that the can have this opinion. Maybe there is something in his technique. His technique is krya yoga which I never learned because I once sat next to an old lady doing it and it sounded like a demiurge was regurgitating a cosmos. I went outside and decided the world was good enough without too deep of a meditation. But I kept the idea and applied it to raising energy in myself and it works.

Also gather the fire. Use cold showers and then runes.



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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Maia » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:19 am

Thanks. I'm actually quite familiar with runes and Runic Yoga, in which one reproduces the shape of the rune with one's body. Usually a sequence of runes, in fact, for specific purposes. I like runes because of their simple, angular shapes, which I can easily recognise if they're carved into wood, for example.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby MagsJ » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:22 pm

This:
I went outside and decided the world was good enough without too deep of a meditation. But I kept the idea and applied it to raising energy in myself and it works.
..because we become aware of our energy output, and in doing so start using it more efficiently, because we begin to waste less on unuseful habits and actions.

Try Kira hypericum supps from Boots as they're the best, but you can get other brands, but I've found them to be less effective - I took them when grieving (rather than prescribed meds) and I felt bloody fantastic. :)

Also.. a 20 minute walk is meant to release endorphins, or any other exercise done briskly enough, and you'll find that your mood has greatly elevated - I started doing so, and the endorphin rush was much appreciated. :D
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Maia » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:29 pm

I find it helps to be outdoors and active as much as possible, which is a good thing in my job. Doing nothing, on the other hand, drains my energy away.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Carleas » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:39 pm

I don't know about a cure, but better lighting is a well-attested treatment. Relatedly, vitamin D supplements are said to help.

As I understand it, the theory is that SAD is an adaptation to life in northern climates where daylight is shorter and less direct in winter months, which was great when the best thing a person could do in the winter was hunker down and conserve energy (hibernate, essentially). And in modern society, it's become less adaptive. So you trick your body into thinking it's summer by giving it more light (or its biological products, e.g. vitamin D).

That fits with what you're saying about being outside and active: more light and non-hibernation, and your body responds by not going into hibernation mode.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Maia » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:07 pm

I suppose that when it's dark in winter I'm not getting any benefit, even though I work outdoors most evenings at the leisure centre.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Carleas » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:38 pm

It depends. Dim sunlight may have more light in the relevant frequencies than artificial light, so being outside may expose you to parts of the light spectrum that you aren't getting otherwise. Blue light in particular is mostly absent from artificial indoor lights, but dominant in natural light even when it's cloudy. And blue light is most effective at treating S.A.D.

But I have to think there's something to just being up and about. Exercise is a good way reduce many kinds of depression.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Maia » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:41 pm

Carleas wrote:It depends. Dim sunlight may have more light in the relevant frequencies than artificial light, so being outside may expose you to parts of the light spectrum that you aren't getting otherwise. Blue light in particular is mostly absent from artificial indoor lights, but dominant in natural light even when it's cloudy. And blue light is most effective at treating S.A.D.

But I have to think there's something to just being up and about. Exercise is a good way reduce many kinds of depression.


During the winter months the sun has already set by the time I get to work.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Serendipper » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:15 pm

Maia wrote:Seasonally Affected Disorder, or S.A.D. gets me every year sometime around October, and it seems to be getting worse with each passing year. I can literally feel my energies drop. Any suggestions as to what I can do to alleviate it?

Eat salmon. I crave it every October due to it being about the only food that contains ample vitamin D.

https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/ ... easureby=g
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Serendipper » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:34 pm

Maia wrote:
Carleas wrote:It depends. Dim sunlight may have more light in the relevant frequencies than artificial light, so being outside may expose you to parts of the light spectrum that you aren't getting otherwise. Blue light in particular is mostly absent from artificial indoor lights, but dominant in natural light even when it's cloudy. And blue light is most effective at treating S.A.D.

But I have to think there's something to just being up and about. Exercise is a good way reduce many kinds of depression.


During the winter months the sun has already set by the time I get to work.

Ideally we should get sun between 10am and 2pm in order to receive UVB and UVA in balance and we should avoid sun exposure outside that band due to UVA dominance. There is no sense is receiving UVA damage without the benefit of UVB vitamin D generation.

All indoor lighting probably extends into the UVA (since UVB requires more energy) and probably contributes to cataracts (A/B imbalance).

Blue lights (daylight bulbs) are pretty, but have more energy which causes more damage than yellow light. This is a big deal right now, especially with regard to public safety. https://gunnar.com/do-environmentally-f ... blindness/
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Maia » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:05 am

Serendipper wrote:
Maia wrote:
Carleas wrote:It depends. Dim sunlight may have more light in the relevant frequencies than artificial light, so being outside may expose you to parts of the light spectrum that you aren't getting otherwise. Blue light in particular is mostly absent from artificial indoor lights, but dominant in natural light even when it's cloudy. And blue light is most effective at treating S.A.D.

But I have to think there's something to just being up and about. Exercise is a good way reduce many kinds of depression.


During the winter months the sun has already set by the time I get to work.

Ideally we should get sun between 10am and 2pm in order to receive UVB and UVA in balance and we should avoid sun exposure outside that band due to UVA dominance. There is no sense is receiving UVA damage without the benefit of UVB vitamin D generation.

All indoor lighting probably extends into the UVA (since UVB requires more energy) and probably contributes to cataracts (A/B imbalance).

Blue lights (daylight bulbs) are pretty, but have more energy which causes more damage than yellow light. This is a big deal right now, especially with regard to public safety. https://gunnar.com/do-environmentally-f ... blindness/


Well that last bit isn't a worry for me, since I'm already blind.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Pandora » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:51 am

Maia, I remember you were trying to be a neo-pagan at some point. Have you abandoned it?
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Maia » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:44 am

No, not at all. I've become even more serious about it and hope to be able to train as a priestess.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Pandora » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:33 am

Well then, perhaps you can incorporate it into your worldview and try to somehow work with it, instead.
Your pagan ancestors most likely also experienced it, but they may also incorporated it into their spirituality and world view as part of their adaptation to their environment.
And their ancestors probably had it even worse, to the point where what mattered the most was not just upholding the psychological well-being, but actually just surviving through (especially long) winters. Starvation was a real concern and possibility in winter even in not so distant past. Perhaps back then just knowing that they had enough food to last through the winter (a good harvest) may have been enough to keep their spirits up (especially if you know that you might not make it through).
Granted, today we live on an artificial schedule, with different energy demands, but maybe some kind of synthesis or compromise could be attempted. That could be your challenge. For example, there are some diets which encourage eating local seasonal foods. So, the emphasis is on available local fresh fruits and vegetables in summer months and meats, nuts and fats in winter months. Some activities that focus on solitary inner work may also take priority during winter months. The idea is to go with the natural flow and also try to incorporate it into modern lifestyle (as best as you can).

I don’t know how I feel about pagans suggesting using sun lamps. As a pagan, how comfortable are you in tricking your body into thinking it’s summer? I feel like something valuable would be lost in the process (even if it’s not pleasant).
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Maia » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:51 am

I would never consider using a sun lamp and always try and avoid drugs or suppliments, even if they are supposed to be natural or herbal (real herbs don't come in capsules, for example). I'm a great believer in the idea that a healthy humam body shouldn't need such things because it's already perfectly adapted to its environment. I would go even further and say that everything we need to cure ourselves of anything can be found around us, growing in the forest for example, and we can take such things in the form of herbal teas, as our ancestors did.

That's the theory, anyway. But none of us are perfect and I fall short of that ideal. In particular, while I would very much like to get into a natural routine of spending the daylight hours outdoors, given that I work in the evenings, this is not always possible, as I have other things to do in the afternoon. If I'm to train as a priestess I would have to give up my job and begin a totally new daily routine, which is one of the reasons it is so appealing, but as of now, I am still reluctant to give up the sense of independence having a regular income gives me, even if that independence is ultimately spurious.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby MagsJ » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:37 am

I agree with both you Maia, and Pan, on not tricking the body with artificial stimuli, as who knows what repercussions and effect they can have on the body over time.

Hypericum tea, made from the flowers from the Hypericum plant, is the natural alternative to the capsule form, and is covered in the most stunning buttercup-yellow bowl-sized flowers - I have one in my garden, and a smaller variety in a shady corner, but I have not ingested from them due to unnecessty.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Maia » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:39 am

If it grows naturally in England I would certainly consider it.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby MagsJ » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:00 pm

Maia wrote:If it grows naturally in England I would certainly consider it.

St John’s wort (Hypericum perforatum) is so named because of its association with the knights of the Crusades and was traditionally hung around the house on St John’s Eve, in midsummer, to ward off bad spirits. It is one of a number of native hypericums. The common one, H. perforatum, is used pharmaceutically for depression and as an anti-inflammatory, and it’s a good subject for wildflower gardens. But be warned: it will self-seed shamelessly. You’ll either have to do lots of weeding or start a pharmaceutical business.


Habitat Information
Hairy St John's-wort is a British native perennial of relatively unproductive grasslands on well-drained, neutral to basic soils. It is particularly characteristic of the transitional zone between shaded and unshaded habitat such as might be found in woodland rides and clearings, river banks, roadside banks and verges. Its ability to spread by vegetative means is limited and its very small seed requires open ground in which to germinate. This suggests that Hairy St John's-wort requires occasional disturbance to its habitat if it is to persist.


Hypericum Perforatum and Hypericum androsaemum are both native to Britain.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Maia » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:57 pm

That's definitely the sort of thing I would use then, rooted in our native soil.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Serendipper » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:51 pm

Maia wrote:I would never consider using a sun lamp and always try and avoid drugs or suppliments, even if they are supposed to be natural or herbal (real herbs don't come in capsules, for example).

Yes, I bought a reptile light, but rarely use it because I kinda feel like you: that the light may be missing something that occurs naturally in sunlight.

During the winter I usually seek out vitamin C and D foods, not because I'm trying to be healthy, but because I crave them. Fermented pickled peppers (or fermented anything really) is a good source of vitamin C in winter and was the cure for scurvy on ocean voyages. Vitamin C is hard to store and easily destroyed by heat, time, light and is very hard to obtain in winter.

Then about march, or as soon as it's warm enough, I lay out in the sun daily until I get too busy to manage it.

I believe that we shouldn't force medicine on ourselves and health routines should be in response to cravings. Like Mark Twain said, "Be careful reading health books; you may die of a misprint."
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Maia » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:52 am

The foods that we crave are exactly what our body needs. Or at least they would be if we were able to lead an active, outdoor life.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Serendipper » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:42 pm

Maia wrote:The foods that we crave are exactly what our body needs. Or at least they would be if we were able to lead an active, outdoor life.

I think so, although sometimes we can go overboard into addiction where the thing we crave causes harm. For instance a friend starting craving salt and initially I told him the craving is probably medicinal, but then he began consuming a whole shaker every couple days. About a year later he had a heart attack and kidney failure. I don't think the salt caused it, but such an intense craving was a warning sign and no doubt all that salt didn't help. Here is a doctor who says refrigeration is unnatural and it's causing a deficiency of salt in people since salt was used for ages for food storage before refrigerators: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV-36i2nmx4

Anyway, I find food cravings fascinating.

Craving salami, pepperoni, sausage (fermented meats) is almost certainly a craving for vitamin K2 https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/ ... easureby=g And that could be indication of atherosclerosis (or other calcification of soft tissue)

Craving liver is probably a vitamin A craving https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/ ... easureby=g

Craving peppers, especially pickled, could be vitamin C https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/ ... easureby=g

Craving salmon (fatty fish) is almost certainly vitamin D https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/ ... easureby=g

Others are more difficult to figure out. Craving vinegar pickles could be a craving for calcium since lots of acid is required to breakdown calcium components. Craving dirt is thought to be a craving for calcium. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geophagia

I think animals are more in tune with their cravings than people since people are obsessed with right and wrong behavior and fall victim to fashions in science (low fat, low salt diets).
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Carleas » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:14 pm

The problem with the 'only do natural things' approach is that our current environment isn't natural at all, and not the environment for which we are adapted. Most of our evolution happened in much warmer climates, and later periods were much colder (the last ice age ended 11000 years ago), and the Genes associated with S.A.D. arose farther north than England. Many foods we eat are transplants, most of our local environments are heavily modified by human activities, and our daily routines are generally almost nothing like our daily routines in the 'state of nature'.

It shouldn't be impossible to find artificial lights that faithfully mimic natural lights, because we have good data on the spectrum of natural light and can measure spectra for artificial lights as well. It also seems that the light isn't just about creating vitamin D, because shining extra light on people's skin was found to have no effect on S.A.D. symptoms. And, relevant to the present case, the presence of S.A.D. in the blind lead to the discovery to additional photoreceptive cells in the retina that are tied to S.A.D., that allow the blind to synchronize their circadian rhythm and are also related to S.A.D. In line with other observations, these cells are most sensitive to blue light, which is also most effective in treating S.A.D.
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Re: Anyone know a good cure for S.A.D.?

Postby Maia » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:25 pm

Serendipper wrote:
Maia wrote:The foods that we crave are exactly what our body needs. Or at least they would be if we were able to lead an active, outdoor life.

I think so, although sometimes we can go overboard into addiction where the thing we crave causes harm. For instance a friend starting craving salt and initially I told him the craving is probably medicinal, but then he began consuming a whole shaker every couple days. About a year later he had a heart attack and kidney failure. I don't think the salt caused it, but such an intense craving was a warning sign and no doubt all that salt didn't help. Here is a doctor who says refrigeration is unnatural and it's causing a deficiency of salt in people since salt was used for ages for food storage before refrigerators: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV-36i2nmx4

Anyway, I find food cravings fascinating.

Craving salami, pepperoni, sausage (fermented meats) is almost certainly a craving for vitamin K2 https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/ ... easureby=g And that could be indication of atherosclerosis (or other calcification of soft tissue)

Craving liver is probably a vitamin A craving https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/ ... easureby=g

Craving peppers, especially pickled, could be vitamin C https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/ ... easureby=g

Craving salmon (fatty fish) is almost certainly vitamin D https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/ ... easureby=g

Others are more difficult to figure out. Craving vinegar pickles could be a craving for calcium since lots of acid is required to breakdown calcium components. Craving dirt is thought to be a craving for calcium. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geophagia

I think animals are more in tune with their cravings than people since people are obsessed with right and wrong behavior and fall victim to fashions in science (low fat, low salt diets).


I'm sure all those things are many more like them are true. Our body surely has a way of telling us what it needs.
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