Analysis of a despicable friend

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby Meno_ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:27 pm

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
Bit the content being the same is astounding


It is kinda kool eh! Begs the question ... What isn't coincidence?

Be as it may the reason for our trip to India was some kind of illumination or atonement for my son"s death


an echo of my earlier post ...

Since the system wouldn't punish you ... you had no choice but to punish yourself ... you're doing a fine job ... though lots of collateral damage.


Your son's breaking off, for instance may be also a representation of a state of death between You and Him, although metaphorically this may be stretched to the limit. The dynamic undertow , however may be more similar, then not.


My son's decisions/actions have been replicated in one form or another by his four sisters. As I mentioned in an earlier post ... my five children are granting me a great service. The consequence of their actions ... my isolation ... fuels my efforts towards achieving ultimate individuation.

Major motives motives at times are hidden under minor ones, manifesting denial and unconscious neurotic behavior
symptomatic of very large aggregates of major conflict,


An echo of my first post in this thread ...

An alarmingly accurate microcosm of the Western Psyche ... intentional or otherwise. :-)


Paraphrasing the title of your OP:

SOS ... Please Help!!


Countless people around the world utter the same cry every day ... consciously or unconsciously.

... and they get the same response.



Your comments are helpful and thoughtful. The mix of major and minor premises , the later covering the former was my delineated form of denial was my point of more specificity. Whereas Yours was indicative of a general form of denial.
It does make a difference, because a general form can not initially figure out the difference between intentional or unconscious motivation.

And how does that make a difference in real life?

In this case Your daughters' replicating Your son's actions shows a kind of assumptions on Your daughter's part that whatever it took for them to assume justifications on their part to take that action, had to do with their opinion that Your son's actions needed no explanation.

But that leaves You as You have described it, and here I too, am deservedly apologetic of may be crossing boundaries between major or minor premises, of between primary and secondary processes , on psych. language.
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:25 pm

In this case Your daughters' replicating Your son's actions shows a kind of assumptions on Your daughter's part that whatever it took for them to assume justifications on their part to take that action, had to do with their opinion that Your son's actions needed no explanation.

The more interesting fact ... not intentionally obscured ... is my son as very little communication with his one biological sister ... and in his entire life only a few minutes with any of his 3 step sisters.

Seems to confirm this stuff can happen without direct communication ... hmmm!
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby Meno_ » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:45 am

Interesting, then what could be the process underlying such mass exodus?
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:17 am

Meno_ wrote:Interesting, then what could be the process underlying such mass exodus?


Seems our no boundaries, no rules and no getting bogged down is paying dividends ... for me at least.

Reminiscing on my family life(s) I just realized my family(s) are a microcosm of what's known as Nationalism.

Like the globalists I too flirted with integration ... with 40 years passing between my first attempt and my last attempt. Obviously my persistence isn't enough.

Conclusion:

Integration cannot be forced ... at the appointed time it will happen by itself ... or it simply won't happen!
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby Meno_ » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:09 pm

I agree. Which brings in the old postulate, of identifiable groupings, and how cross cultural identity ties in with more proximate familial identity , and how these conform .
, where coersion fuses with subliminal factors , willingly or unwillingly, and whether acceptance or rejection plays a part .

A subliminal acceptance or an overt rejection would tie into a differentiation from lower levels , to higher ones, with minimum disruption , or the opposite, and how these formations will disrupt the transition successfully is the key to a reverse effect.

For instance rebellion or a clear cut break with familiar patterns is usually not the exception, of the difference consist of major breaks in the developing transition. Then the throwback results in rejection of primary values .

In Your household, Pilgrim, was this process uneventful, or dis it consost of major breaks such as divorce , favoritism, or other unpleasant events? If so , that would explain the sudden severing of relationships.

Of Frank ill to talk later.
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby Meno_ » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:01 pm

Another tie in with what is going on in the world today, extending the notion of what's behind the hoopla of the seeming political mess in. today's political environment.

How does national identity tie in with the familiar, the familial organization of primal groups?

Nancy Reagan began her own personal heat to restructure American regional , small town organizations so that somehow it would change the obcious animosity which presents such atmosphere as when people living next to each other appear to not to care even of who is living next door. (Unless that neifjvor obviously doesn't 'fit I'm, according to their own assessment of the type of person that can5. In other words exclusion on some justified basis come before inclusive inclusive, accepted adoption of projected value judgement.

Reagan's efforts did not pay off, and normative values do not define the identifiable itraits of acceptance
This has extended to international proportiona5 where Put in
can openly declare at his State of the Union address that he feels Russian populace is far more together, and hence his social programs are far more manageable
The implication of the consequences of social unrest, regardless of the level of reality. Considered is a measure of distrust and consequent. paranoicc projection need to be externalized.

Familial social architecture has been interjected more unitarily per each individual
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:01 am

In Your household, Pilgrim, was this process uneventful, or dis it consost of major breaks such as divorce , favoritism, or other unpleasant events? If so , that would explain the sudden severing of relationships.


My first marriage was too short, my 3 daughters and us too young.

My second marriage ... for 17 years I punished myself ... I know first hand the self destructive force of perceived guilt. Outsiders considered our household family a model family ... I knew otherwise.

Familial social architecture has been interjected more unitarily per each individual


SCAP ... Social Contructs and their Attendant Proprieties prevails on the surface everywhere.

Below the surface is "chemistry" ... the love at first sight phenomenon ... the decision concerning compatibility made in 4 seconds or less phenomenon.

Chemistry is unpredictable neuron activity.
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby Meno_ » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:28 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
In Your household, Pilgrim, was this process uneventful, or dis it consost of major breaks such as divorce , favoritism, or other unpleasant events? If so , that would explain the sudden severing of relationships.


My first marriage was too short, my 3 daughters and us too young.

My second marriage ... for 17 years I punished myself ... I know first hand the self destructive force of perceived guilt. Outsiders considered our household family a model family ... I knew otherwise.

Familial social architecture has been interjected more unitarily per each individual


SCAP ... Social Contructs and their Attendant Proprieties prevails on the surface everywhere.

Below the surface is "chemistry" ... the love at first sight phenomenon ... the decision concerning compatibility made in 4 seconds or less phenomenon.

Chemistry is unpredictable neuron activity.


And when SCAP and the underlying chemistry become at odds, trouble brews. With me , as I have already noted, the chemistry subsists on magical formulae, of an almost compulsive hereditary neural path work, inasmuch, as to really become the causative factors of things effected, rather then the other way around, an alchemy of sorts
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:30 am

Meno_ wrote:And when SCAP and the underlying chemistry become at odds, trouble brews.


Even a cursory glance at the planet and all it's life forms ... at any point in time and space ... confirms your statement.

If SCAP ... in all it's manifestations across time and space ... is the highest good ... as most adherents believe ... than the 'trouble' you refer to can correctly be labelled nefarious.

OTH ... if there is a higher good ... albeit unknown ... as some people believe ... the 'trouble' you refer to is seen as a force attempting to move the species in a more appropriate direction. Much like our subconscious takes us places we don't want to go.

SCAP will continue to fail until it aligns the fundamentals to nature.

Meno_ wrote:With me , as I have already noted, the chemistry subsists on magical formulae, of an almost compulsive hereditary neural path work, inasmuch, as to really become the causative factors of things effected, rather then the other way around, an alchemy of sorts


The word alchemy points in the right direction ... getting there without 'magic' is the key.
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby Meno_ » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:34 pm

The divided self through the magic of alchemy=triple crucifixion.

Alchemy may be more akin to logical systems then magic granted but ......

Magic came first then alchemy
That is a historical fact , besides being the result of reductive reasoning. The argument otherwise is bound to and is based on the current and fairly recent post -enlightement induction .

Now get into the heart of darkness of it all, and obviously using the ( SCAP ), in order to establish some kind of relevance, continuity, and : - (non productivity) . Positing a negation of a negative productivity (creation), to bring up the point the way magic came about as a way to deal with an incredible massive dose of ambiguous creation.

That magic comes out of a creative aspect of positioning the totality of fears, is a very iffy and dubious idea to begin with.

The example of that form of creation. Is trying to convince people to believe in the benefits of pain, (because belief in those days was interily based on benefits) of the failure of a Saint Anselm -metapnysically speaking, to believe in the impossible.

The Crucifixion is , in it's very essence causes a dissociation of It's self, for is not Christianity and Judaism by definition , divided at least in its outcome? Thinking about it can drive one crazy.
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby Meno_ » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:48 pm

The craziness of the crucifixtion requires any sane person trying to believe in Christ, while attemptingto sustain bridges with it's historically tied in derivation, seems almost futile, until it is reaffirmed by Christ. when in answer to the question. of how to get into paradise, he answers that to do that , One-one has to follow Him.

This is an example of division of the Self, whereas all He is asking for is for the division of the self.


Big difference, and it's begging of the question of a magical formula for the times and in the context for said, a tremendous, and nearly inconceivable attempt to pre-figure both ancient skepticism and the great doubt arising out of Descartes' 'cogito upon the wings of St. Anselm.

Did even the Apostles understood this except taking it in verbatim? This is why perhaps , that he spoke in a transcendental language geared toward the future.

The crucifixion was really a three layered process, a Triple Crucifixion and his self divided into three and not into two.

Its no exaggeration to see this event as a magical heuristic attempt to communicate into the alchemy of the Middle Ages, and the despair was vested not in the pain ,but in the thought that perhaps all was in Vain , to disseminate value of Redemption.

That's how deep it goes, and it was relating to that death that Nietzsche was alluding to.

That it was a purposeful indication of the reductive capacity into the absurd heart of.the Deity into a bottomless pit, the Luciferian depth of man's heart.
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby Meno_ » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:02 pm

The thing is, when He said - ' Forgive them because They do not know what they do, He tried to overcome archaic literacy with the magic of demonstration .

But as all demonstrations devolve into disbelief, the middle ages' magic became just another sleight of hand, and devolved the notion of 'specialness'( of which all culturally bound speciallness can be generalized and colluded into,) making his claims dubious by virtue of a consequence from associations became hard to deny.

Therefore His deliberate disassociated self, under scrutiny became suspect to fraudelancy. (Initially, this may not have been intentional, but certainly, by examples of his extraordinary behavior as a child, such can be extrapolated)

And then came the payback for their short sightedness, and he was killed, , while the Romans realizing their inability to look through the glass darkly, acceeded.

I realize that revisions seem propotitious, but to really understand depth, one needs extreme curcumspection to avoid the trappings of ambiguity. Even You, Pilgrim, who may not take that backward glance! But so be it.


Whose fault? The messing with identity , even the concept of chosen-ness, is very dangerous because it could have driven a while archaic society mad. And certainly, archaic Jewish society did not act from pure malice, only by a an automatic reflexive effect to protect their social cohesion through identity. No one could blame them , people in slavery can not fathom revolutionary ideas at a crucial time in history, when their very existence hinges on the generosity of oppressors to whom they must give their homage and their very existence. They felt besieged by internal and external forces, in an age where according to Luke, even the Apostles didn't literally understand Him. No wonder that even today, sermons are constantly preached with the demonstrations of magic he used to propagate faith. No, it was too much to expect of people, who've heart drove them on to have God's promise fulfilled.He loved his people because he was from them, and they lived him, but they were politically devised by contradictions overwhelming them.


And that is when it was said to those of little faith, that Blessed are those who can believe without seeing.

But then, lack of seeing results in invisibility, as a reversal in temporal sequencing,that it came to be understood that the blind can not lead the blind, and why entropy ad nauseum prevents any possible revival of Faith. The symptoms patently cover up the illness of Nihilism. This is why Christ and Nietzche were fated to travel this road based on an inverted paradigm.

This inversion is making s figurative comeback where the magic will close the circle-ring of Being, when with the coming of quantum computing, the mentioned paradigm shift from quantification to qualification will return, by sheer necessity to re-channel bits of information into more general channels. That is, what A1 will evolve into, a replication of it's self. (Leibnitz's two spheres.) Strangely, as I typed out it's self, 'myself' typed out)
I sneaked this in, because You , as I, may not consider it as relevant. -yet

The whole genesis is about coding-decoding, and the 'enigma code's breaking is very significant, if merely from this perspective. I don't anticipate a comment on this, and You probably won't muse on it anyway.

I wonder where Code-Decode went he appears as soon as he disappears. That too is a post script.
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:21 pm

Quite interesting ... I too spent some time thinking about 'magic' since my last post ... seems there is 'magic' in the air. :-)

The expression "The Christian West" is a fairly accurate expression ... certainly from the perspective the West was built on the foundation of Christianity.

What is the foundation of the genesis of Christianity?

Why 'magic' of course. The NT is peppered with 'magic' masked with the word 'miracle'. The Christian church(s) was founded on 'magic' and has been sustained with 'magic' for 2,000 years. Ditto for Judaism.

Travelling further back in time we can see the intimate connection of the early Christian church ... and Judaism ... to Egypt ... and ancient Egypt oozed with 'magic'.

So what?

Obviously 'magic' is an instrumental ingredient in the evolution of being ... that's not to say 'magic' will always retain it's stature. Like 'superstition' ... magic one day will come into the light and as a consequence it will lose it's sheen.

Some easier to grasp thoughts ...

Part I

For all our talk of global community, wide tolerance, and acceptance of differences, there is, almost everywhere, a growing obsession with boundaries and with protecting one’s own kind in terms of ethnicity, culture, language, religion, gender, ideology, lifestyle.


Part II

We burn lots of politically-correct incense in front of the shrines of multi-culturalism, ethnic diversity, global community, gender equality, wide religious tolerance, alternative lifestyles, and befriending our shadow; but, as we’ll all admit when we’re honest, the reality isn’t as easy as the rhetoric. The simple fact is that otherness frightens us and often brings out the worst in us. It’s not easy to be comfortable, at home, welcoming, to what’s other, different, seemingly deviant. More often than not we try to put up walls against it.


Part III

We can no longer live just among our own. Sooner or later, given that the planet is both limited and round, we’ll find it impossible to avoid what’s foreign to us. What’s strange to us will soon enough be part of our neighbourhood,
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:21 am

More emerging thoughts ... centred on the notion of 'magic'.

The story of Cinderella popped up ... particularly the fairy and her magic wand. The fairy bestowed some magic on Cinderella ... for a limited time. The limited time is key.

One could look at history and claim that some 'magic' was bestowed on individuals, communities, nations and empires ... for a limited time. When the time limit expired the beneficiaries were relegated to the dust bin of history.

Begs the question ... Why a time limit?

The logical answer is the purpose of bestowing the magic had been achieved.

Looking at today's world ... one might ask is the time limit for the 'magic' bestowed on the current empire about to expire ... ergo has the purpose of bestowing the magic been achieved. If so this may point to only one conclusion ... undoubtedly the largest empire in history as well perhaps the empire with the shortest lifespan.

This points to the ending of the Cinderella story ... the Prince found Cinderella without magic ... or at least with only a tiny remnant of magic.

Hmmm!
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby Meno_ » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:52 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:More emerging thoughts ... centred on the notion of 'magic'.

The story of Cinderella popped up ... particularly the fairy and her magic wand. The fairy bestowed some magic on Cinderella ... for a limited time. The limited time is key.

One could look at history and claim that some 'magic' was bestowed on individuals, communities, nations and empires ... for a limited time. When the time limit expired the beneficiaries were relegated to the dust bin of history.

Begs the question ... Why a time limit?

The logical answer is the purpose of bestowing the magic had been achieved.

Looking at today's world ... one might ask is the time limit for the 'magic' bestowed on the current empire about to expire ... ergo has the purpose of bestowing the magic been achieved. If so this may point to only one conclusion ... undoubtedly the largest empire in history as well perhaps the empire with the shortest lifespan.

This points to the ending of the Cinderella story ... the Prince found Cinderella without magic ... or at least with only a tiny remnant of magic.

Hmmm!




Yes but time is coming around to realize the relative aspects of all, if the biochemistry changes , it makes a difference difference and alters it.(time). Not only the perception of it, but time itself. Now is that magical ? ( if I could put time in a bottle) . But natural high can, and strange , both artists who were able are dead.

However, even that is not what it seems!
At this point we have gone somewhat through SCAT, and maybe we are able for a sec. to anchor down and maybe go fishing.

And I got that wrong its not code-decode, it's Encode Decode.
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:05 am

Yes, but ...


Thank goodness for the word 'but' . :D

I agree ... the time for word exchange has expired ... let's go fishing. :-)
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby Meno_ » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:26 pm

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
Yes, but ...


Thank goodness for the word 'but' . :D

I agree ... the time for word exchange has expired ... let's go fishing. :-)


I fished using a very wide net because the stream was very turbulent and murky, and I figured that the fish may allude a single point of reference as in a hook, line, and sinker scenario, they know relatively less of wide scope methods of catching them.


Well what did I catch? Honestly, I gathered bits & pieces of divided objects washed down such as half of a shoe, then half of a pair , only 1 shoe, the embodiment of a long disintegrated book probably left by a scholar, with the author's name still glittering in a gold lettered middle ages illumination, figures of young-yang and moebius spatial disarray contrasted with soul division unto absurdity, and other goodies.

I was thinking of a unibomber type ex ivory leage scholar to be a perpetual student type, who could have lost the will to reach a surface topology.

Then thought of Frank, and why he did not join the fishing expedition , maybe he wanted to avoid the depths , as it alluded to so many others? Out of fear of catching something , something eery, slimy and like a version of the plant aptly named the flytrap, becoming it's prey?

The turbulence of SCAT has left, and the gently flowing glimmering water, hissing with a secret song of the miraids, buzzing and breaking up light, the dragonfly , yearning for eternity, all that, a visual equivalency to its anthitetical bottom of darkness , equally restrained, and unmoved by any apparent force, as if all the motive of its forward surge had sought the surface as if the silence needed to break through to breathe.
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby Meno_ » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:10 pm

Frank called wanted to meet him and asked him to meet me at the once glittering now eroded bar in midtown.he took his place where he usually sat , next to the polished up golden bronze arch that signified the place drinks were ordered when there was no place to sit down. Quiet now, hardly giving a sign of recognition , he alternatively took a drink from his happy hour cocktail, followed. by a longer swallow of the beer chaser.
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:59 pm

Gone Fishin.jpg
Gone Fishin.jpg (36.29 KiB) Viewed 2763 times
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Re: Analysis of a despicable friend

Postby Meno_ » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:22 am

Saying that the grey area between the two may go either one or other direction, its flow pushing downward and upward any object , and being effected by it, the looking at the upper reaches may, by an effect of forces on it, either appear to have inflated , or deflated the object, as I predicted such a
Journey realized, where referentiality and the posted signals along the way proclaim: it may be a tough going, and though flies can not avoid the flytrap, fishermen can. (Especially those who try to
be fishermen of Man)

For that, Frank's changes of behavior has surprised me, and for a moment , thought he may have misunderstood the gravity of it, and tremble at the thought of his altered state becoming permanent. But then , it just may be the fragility of those neural channels which may have changed the entire pattern.

I fear for him, and others.

But it will work out anyway, in this great big old tether tother of a world, in any case.
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