Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby iambiguous » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:14 pm

Or, perhaps, more to the point:

Does anyone else experience psychic abilities that they are able demonstrate are in fact psychic abilities to all the rest of us?

There was once a time when you could garner a $1,000,000 reward for demonstrating it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Milli ... _Challenge

Though I suspect that, reward or not, if someone was indeed able to demonstrate a psychic ability, it would be all over the news. And not just the local news.

Why?

Because it is so clearly linked to what is often called "supernatural" or "paranormal" powers.

And how far can that be from God?

Besides, if you can predict the future, that means the future already exists to be predicted. And if the future already exists that shifts the discussion immediately to the extent to which human autonomy itself exists.

And how spooky is that?
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby Carleas » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:17 pm

Maia wrote:Very small ones. No one in the UK expects a tornado.

It seems a lot of people do, if their frequency in the UK is "internationally recognized".

In any case, there was plenty of opportunity for something that happens regularly near you to seed a dream that came true when that regularly-occurring thing occur again. The mundane explanations still seems like the best one for what you experienced.

unknowing wrote:my brain left my apartment and ended up in another state when I smoked Salvia Divinorium

Mundane explanation: you had an elaborate and realistic hallucination while under the influence of a potent hallucinogen.
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby MagsJ » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:24 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:So far the "psychic" abilities and experiences in this thread can be reduced down to mere coincidence, nothing special.

And after thousands of years, not even Buddhists can levitate using their minds.

If anything, Rationality is the greatest "psychic" ability.

Mine cannot be put down to coincidences...
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby Carleas » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:27 pm

MagsJ wrote:Mine cannot be put down to coincidences...

Yours can be put down to broad success criteria.

EDIT: let me expand on that:

If I predict, "I feel like I should stop here because something will happen here in the near future", that's not what I would call a "risky prediction", it's frequently true that something will happen in a given location in an unspecified amount of time. This becomes more true if "something happens" includes both something happening at the spot where you altered your day, or at any spot where something happens differently because you're 30 seconds behind where you were. If so broad a set of things counts to satisfy "something happened", it is virtually guaranteed at the time of prediction that the prediction will turn out true, and so it doesn't require any exotic mental abilities to explain it: mundane explanations suffice.
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby MagsJ » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:42 pm

Carleas wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Mine cannot be put down to coincidences...

Yours can be put down to broad success criteria.

EDIT: let me expand on that:

If I predict, "I feel like I should stop here because something will happen here in the near future", that's not what I would call a "risky prediction", it's frequently true that something will happen in a given location in an unspecified amount of time. This becomes more true if "something happens" includes both something happening at the spot where you altered your day, or at any spot where something happens differently because you're 30 seconds behind where you were. If so broad a set of things counts to satisfy "something happened", it is virtually guaranteed at the time of prediction that the prediction will turn out true, and so it doesn't require any exotic mental abilities to explain it: mundane explanations suffice.

I had no intention of stopping at any bus stop - I just wanted to go, but I was compelled to stay put for a short while.

I had no intention of wanting to go home early that day - I got excited about the endless possibilities of what I could do with those extra hours: shopping, a cheeky drink, visiting someone, but I was compelled to go straight home.

I have never stopped at a bus stop unintentionally, or felt the need to get up and go straight home, since. You?

Hey! if it's good enough for Royals and Aristos, it's good enough for me :confusion-shrug:
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby Carleas » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:26 pm

So the claim is that you felt a strong desire to do something that you don't usually do, and then some event followed that you interpreted as somehow causally related to your strong desire. Am I understanding that right?

If so, I don't see anything requiring more than a mundane explanation: the causal relationship is spurious. You stopped for any one of a hundred reasons that people get feelings every day; some network in your brain was triggered by any of a hundred local stimuli of which you were not consciously aware. Later, you experienced something you felt was meaningful, tied it to the earlier feeling, and remembered it because it confirmed your beliefs.

You are likely to have had similar strong feelings that made you do unusual things that were not followed by noteworthy events, and you forgot them as people frequently ignore disconfirming evidence. People are fallible, and that's why science demands rigor.
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby unknowing » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:00 am

If I gave the impression that I can sit down and see what I fortell, I can't. My predictions, about ten of them, haven't been risky. Innocent predictions. Maybe ability is the wrong word. Psychic occurrences.
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby WendyDarling » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:24 am

iambiguous wrote:Or, perhaps, more to the point:

Does anyone else experience psychic abilities that they are able demonstrate are in fact psychic abilities to all the rest of us?

There was once a time when you could garner a $1,000,000 reward for demonstrating it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Milli ... _Challenge

Though I suspect that, reward or not, if someone was indeed able to demonstrate a psychic ability, it would be all over the news. And not just the local news.

Why?

Because it is so clearly linked to what is often called "supernatural" or "paranormal" powers.

And how far can that be from God?

Besides, if you can predict the future, that means the future already exists to be predicted. And if the future already exists that shifts the discussion immediately to the extent to which human autonomy itself exists.

And how spooky is that?

The million dollar challenge was never legit for there were qualifying requirements that most people would never be able to meet. Also, most "real" psychics guard their abilities to protect themselves like the little old lady who approached me with some precautionary questions before she rattled off many relative aspects of my then current life. When they come up to you out of the blue, they aren't playing. Shit's for real.
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby Maia » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:57 am

Carleas wrote:
Maia wrote:Very small ones. No one in the UK expects a tornado.

It seems a lot of people do, if their frequency in the UK is "internationally recognized".

In any case, there was plenty of opportunity for something that happens regularly near you to seed a dream that came true when that regularly-occurring thing occur again. The mundane explanations still seems like the best one for what you experienced.

unknowing wrote:my brain left my apartment and ended up in another state when I smoked Salvia Divinorium

Mundane explanation: you had an elaborate and realistic hallucination while under the influence of a potent hallucinogen.


It doesn't happen regularly. I had never heard of any tornado happening in England before, so there was nothing to seed it. They may well happen, but they are so small that nobody notices.
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby unknowing » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:39 am

The dream verified it for me
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:16 am

Hypotheticals basically disprove mystical experience and it's easy to understand why. Imagine a car wreck that occurs just in front of you. You can think "I'm lucky that I forgot my car keys this morning, which delayed me, because if I didn't forget my car keys happened then I would have been in that car wreck".

But that's not luck. That's just coincidence. Nothing mystical about it.

You can go further. You had a dream about your dead grandmother. And you believe that dream made you forget your car keys. Then you get these irrationalizations such that "My dead grandmother made me forget my car keys, therefore I was late, therefore I was saved from a car wreck." Again, none of this means anything. But that's how some people (ir)rationalize events.
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:22 am

Also some people cling to Mysticism so strongly, that there "must be a mystery to everything", or certain situations "cannot be explained rationally", similar to Christian belief/faith in god. These people cannot be reasoned with. Because you can explain everything to them, show them every nuance and cause, and they will still reject it all for the supernatural. People who believe in the supernatural, are unreasonable in their faith. This is because they prefer fantasy to reality, and will never let go of fantasy. Fantasy is easy, requires no effort, no thought, no reasoning. Children cling to fantasy, because it requires little to no responsibility. Believing in fantasy absolves people of responsibility, of bad thought, of irrationality, of being forced to pay the costs of bad thinking.

Adults cannot afford to pay such prices. Fantasy is not worth the cost, when you could have known the truth, but chose to ignore it. In the real world, fantasy has a steep cost.

Eventually people quit paying the price. Yet there are those who the price is paid on their behalf. So fantasy is a luxury that not everybody can afford.
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby unknowing » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:53 am

There is no such thing as coincidence. Your example, using the car crash, assuming I would attribute it forgetting keys and feeling lucky, falls short. I would say that all things led to avoiding the car crash. There are no isolated incidents, nothing to tape off like a crime scene. The 43rd sea creature that slimed it's way on to land is just as responsible for me forgetting my keys.

You say some people can't be reasoned with, like that is the ultimate flaw. Do you know what a person who can only be reasoned with sounds like. Like they are rigid, and lack flexibility. Like they miss any hint of magic in life, because they refuse, or simply cannot bare, to look for it. Or admit they look for it, too.

Some people who can only be reasoned with are more afraid of being seen as wrong and vunerable than wanting to be right.

And if it's any consolation, I can afford fantasy. And yet, I am prepared to reject video games and VR life built from code logic. Can you say the same about yourself?
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby unknowing » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:20 am

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby MagsJ » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:48 am

Carleas wrote:So the claim is that you felt a strong desire to do something that you don't usually do, and then some event followed that you interpreted as somehow causally related to your strong desire. Am I understanding that right?
Being compelled to, and having a strong desire to, are two different pulls on one's time and energy in relation to one's own will.

If so, I don't see anything requiring more than a mundane explanation: the causal relationship is spurious. You stopped for any one of a hundred reasons that people get feelings every day; some network in your brain was triggered by any of a hundred local stimuli of which you were not consciously aware. Later, you experienced something you felt was meaningful, tied it to the earlier feeling, and remembered it because it confirmed your beliefs.
These are separate autonomous thoughts, not feelings.. it's only ever about the single one thought that I am compelled to act upon, when I never actually want to.

You are likely to have had similar strong feelings that made you do unusual things that were not followed by noteworthy events, and you forgot them as people frequently ignore disconfirming evidence. People are fallible, and that's why science demands rigor.
I have never thought of standing at a bus stop or spontaneously going home for no reason whatsoever.. other than those instances, nor any other unusual things that I didn't plan or want to do myself.

MagsJ wrote:Re: Isolate Qualia:

I went to buy a dream catcher with a neighbour in the local market one day, as I had started having awful nightmares... I found one.. it was the perfect size and colour that I was looking for, but something told me to wait... the stall holder asked me if I was going to buy it as it was the last one left, but I said not yet, to wait - I stepped back and kept staring down the market to the right... the stall holder continued selling but looked at me strangely... I told my friend/neighbour to step back some more and I stared down the market again, waiting, then I pushed us back a bit more... within minutes a woman ran towards the stall on the spot we'd just moved back from asking for a dream catcher for a young boy in her charge who had started having awful nightmares. As the stall holder was making the sale she glanced over at me but without staring at me.
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:20 pm

unknowing wrote:There is no such thing as coincidence. Your example, using the car crash, assuming I would attribute it forgetting keys and feeling lucky, falls short. I would say that all things led to avoiding the car crash. There are no isolated incidents, nothing to tape off like a crime scene. The 43rd sea creature that slimed it's way on to land is just as responsible for me forgetting my keys.

Therefore there is nothing to warrant 'psychic' episodes about having a car crash, or not. People who claim to have psychic experiences, about intuitions and future events, discount all the times they're blatantly wrong but focus on the 1 in a million occurrence when they were, arguably, right. They take that one time, out of a million, as "proof" of psychic events, when it's still unwarranted.


unknowing wrote:You say some people can't be reasoned with, like that is the ultimate flaw.

It is an ultimate flaw. Reason is the difference between Man, above animals. If you cannot be reasoned with then you are more akin and alike to an animal than humanity.


unknowing wrote:Do you know what a person who can only be reasoned with sounds like. Like they are rigid, and lack flexibility. Like they miss any hint of magic in life, because they refuse, or simply cannot bare, to look for it. Or admit they look for it, too.

Reasonable people are flexible, because all propositions are listened to, before being ruled in or out, as more or less predictable or realistic. First you reason, then you judge. You make judgments, based on reasoning and rationality. You make decisions in life, as such.


unknowing wrote:Some people who can only be reasoned with are more afraid of being seen as wrong and vunerable than wanting to be right.

And if it's any consolation, I can afford fantasy. And yet, I am prepared to reject video games and VR life built from code logic. Can you say the same about yourself?

I'm not the one making unrealistic claims about psychic experiences. Everything I can claim, I can also attest to and defend fully well.

The thing about reason is that it can, and does, as Philosophy does, take all the "magic and mystery" out of life. Philosophy can reveal everything, uncover everything. It can dispel all falsity, all childish notions, and return every supposition back to reality. This is why I say that any magic and mystery in life, can only come after philosophy and realism is regarded and accepted fully. This is why I mentioned already that rationality has more "magic" than psuedo, childish fantasies of psychic experiences. Rationality is the exception in life, not the norm.

Concerning all the "coincidences" in life, every person alive has limitations to what they know, remember, and observe. Coincidences reinforce those mental limits. What seems coincidental to one, will not to another with more knowledge and awareness, to one with higher consciousness.
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby Carleas » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:19 pm

What are people in this thread's thoughts on p-hacking and the replication crisis in the social sciences? The evidence being presented here seems very similar to p-hacked evidence for unreplicable findings, and the way to reduce p-hacking (pre-registering hypotheses) is pretty much what I'm asking for when I ask for a concrete, public, and risky prediction.

The p-hacking problem as I understand it: p-values are basically a measure of how unlikely an outcome is. If two measured variables are unrelated but noisy, there's some chance that they'll look related due to random fluctuations. The more measurements you make, the less likely that is. For a result to be statistically significant, it has to be very unlikely that the result is due to noise. That requirement is expressed in terms of 'p'.

For example, if we want to relate a specific demographic \(D\) to a target concept \(T\), we can survey a bunch of people and ask about their demographic information and about the target concept. We then look at all the surveys and see how they're related. And we can say in advance that there's a certain likelihood, \(L\), that, given the number of surveys we have, we'll get a false positive -- that through random noise we'll find that \(D\) is related to \(T\).

The problem arises when many data points are measured, such as on a survey that asks for lots of demographic information and then lots of questions about a target concept. What happens is that we have a bunch of different relationships, between \(D_{1}\), \(D_{2}\), \(D_{3}\) etc. and \(T_{1}\), \(T_{3}\), \(T_{3}\), etc. Lets say that for any \(D_{i}\) and \(T_{j}\), there's a likelihood of \(L\) that we would get a false positive. What was happening is that researchers took the data, looked at every relationship, found one that seemed to be related with a very low \(L\), and said, "look, \(D_{i}\) and \(T_{j}\) are related, and we're super sure about it!"

But that math doesn't actually work out. Let's say there's a 1 in a 1000 chance that we'll get a false positive for any \(D_{i}\) and \(T_{j}\). If our data set allows us to make 100 \(D_{i}\), \(T_{j}\) pairs, then the chance that we'll get a hit becomes 1 in 10, not 1 in 1000. If we treat any relationship we find as though we had only asked about that specific \(D_{i}\) and \(T_{j}\), we'll be misled as to how strong the connection really is.

Does that makes sense? Am I incorrect in my description of that problem? Do you agree that it's a problem? Do you see the parallels between that and the experiences described in this thread?

unknowing wrote:There is no such thing as coincidence.

I am curious about your notion of what it means to make a truth claim. For me, a statement can only be said to be true if its falsity could be demonstrated. For example, my claim, "none of you are psychic", can be falsified by a concrete, public, risky prediction that comes true. What can falsify your claims here? Or do you reject falsifiability as a necessary criteria for meaningful truth claims?
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby iambiguous » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:07 pm

WendyDarling wrote:The million dollar challenge was never legit for there were qualifying requirements that most people would never be able to meet.


Not unlike most things, Randi's million dollar challenge was as legit or illegit as one needed it to be. Or wanted it to be.

WendyDarling wrote:Also, most "real" psychics guard their abilities to protect themselves like the little old lady who approached me with some precautionary questions before she rattled off many relative aspects of my then current life. When they come up to you out of the blue, they aren't playing. Shit's for real.


I'm not arguing that the shit isn't real. I'm making the distinction [the one I always make] between those who believe it is real "in their head" and those who are able to demonstrate that all rational men and women are obligated to believe the same.

This little old lady is either willing to do this or she isn't. Same with all the other true believers. It's not unlike the discussions here that revolve around the belief in God. It's a demonstrable fact that some do believe that He does exist, and some do not. But is it a demonstrable fact in turn that these Gods actually do exist?

From my frame of mind, psychic abilities are often intertwined in a belief in the supernatural. And once you are able to convince yourself that the supernatural exists, this somehow becomes intertwined as well in a belief in immortality and one or another rendition of salvation.

But then it still comes down to the extent to which this is more or less a psychological contraption designed [consciously or otherwise] to comfort and console you, or is in fact in sync with a reality that is true for all of us.

And I still reckon that if there are folks out there able to take their demonstrable abilities beyond the family, the neighborhood, the community and the local news, they would be known by now. They would have demonstrated beyond all doubt that they do have these abilities to, among others, the skeptics in the scientific community.

And then once these folks confirm it, the folks in the philosophical and theological communities could discuss and debate the ontological/teleological implications of it for the "human condition".
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby unknowing » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:55 pm

Urwrong, you are using reason as an excuse to deny what I've experienced in my life, a person you've never met and a life you've not lived. I can get sidetracked about this and start going into the ways animals are superior to humans, how they live in moment better than we can, but that really defeats my reasoning for starting this thread. To find like minded people who share a similar experience. Not sharpen debate skills.

I could make a thread about ufos, asking who may have seen ships, which I have, but here at ILP I'm sure to get flooded with posters asking why I never took a picture of it, why can't a produce a picture. In the end, I will admit I can't produce a picture. But I will not walk way thinking well, maybe I didn't see the ufo, because somebody who probably doesn't search the sky for that stuff had a forceful argument against aliens or space travel or my need for glasses. I can't explain how the ships conquered gravity, either. So spot the weakness, and attack that.

I am not afraid to be wrong. That is the difference you've displayed between me and you. I'm willing to think I'm right only a few times. If it means discovering more, maybe only for myself and latching onto something bigger, then yes.

Sometimes you shouldn't chime in if you disagree and just let the title annoy you because you can't get off the ground with logic. Let it bother you that I levitated for a moment, between waking and sleeping. I'm done debating lucidity.

Lastly, for anyone out there interested in improving their foresight, hindsight is a way of being more clairvoyant.
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby WendyDarling » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:00 pm

And I still reckon that if there are folks out there able to take their demonstrable abilities beyond the family, the neighborhood, the community and the local news, they would be known by now. They would have demonstrated beyond all doubt that they do have these abilities to, among others, the skeptics in the scientific community.

Why would they want to expose themselves to all the crazies? Why would they want to give up their privacy indefinitely? Why would they want to risk their personal safety and the safety of everyone they care about? I don't think you get that, that they have no interest in convincing the world like a lab rat that they have superior abilities. What they can do, what they offer is on their terms...not yours or the scientific communities. I don't think that most people can handle unknowns being revealed, becoming known, beyond the safe environment they have surrounded themselves in their existential contraptions and such.

Not unlike most things, Randi's million dollar challenge was as legit or illegit as one needed it to be. Or wanted it to be.

What?
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby unknowing » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:06 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
And I still reckon that if there are folks out there able to take their demonstrable abilities beyond the family, the neighborhood, the community and the local news, they would be known by now. They would have demonstrated beyond all doubt that they do have these abilities to, among others, the skeptics in the scientific community.

Why would they want to expose themselves to all the crazies? Why would they want to give up their privacy indefinitely? Why would they want to risk their personal safety and the safety of everyone they care about? I don't think you get that, that they have no interest in convincing the world like a lab rat that they have superior abilities. What they can do, what they offer is on their terms...not yours or the scientific communities. I don't think that most people can handle unknowns being revealed, becoming known, beyond the safe environment they have surrounded themselves in their existential contraptions and such.

Not unlike most things, Randi's million dollar challenge was as legit or illegit as one needed it to be. Or wanted it to be.

What?


Wendy is right, about me at least. They are not carving me open, like E.T.
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:59 am

I personally would not give any credibility to someone who predicts a death for a specific person, irrespective of other obvious factors it is very unethical, yet it is supposed that one of the credentials of a psychic is the ability to be able to predict a person's death and many have informed their 'client' accordingly. I had a friend who travelled through India when he was in his early twenties. A 'mystic' informed him he would die on his 36th birthday and he lived in fear up until this birthday. He said on that day he remained at home all day and never left. He is still alive and well.

How many of you have this 'supposed' ability?
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby Carleas » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:19 am

unknowing wrote:you are using reason as an excuse to deny what I've experienced in my life

You get to describe the qualia of what you've experienced, and you're the leading expert on that. But you don't get to decree the explanation. We're denying your explanation, not your experience.

unknowing wrote:I am not afraid to be wrong.

You keep saying this, and when you do I see it as making a fallacious argument that goes something like,
1) I'm not afraid to be wrong.
2) Therefore if I were wrong, I would admit that I'm wrong.
3) I haven't admitted that I'm wrong.
4) Therefore, I am not wrong.
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Carleas
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby unknowing » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:29 am

Carleas wrote:
unknowing wrote:you are using reason as an excuse to deny what I've experienced in my life

You get to describe the qualia of what you've experienced, and you're the leading expert on that. But you don't get to decree the explanation. We're denying your explanation, not your experience.

unknowing wrote:I am not afraid to be wrong.

You keep saying this, and when you do I see it as making a fallacious argument that goes something like,
1) I'm not afraid to be wrong.
2) Therefore if I were wrong, I would admit that I'm wrong.
3) I haven't admitted that I'm wrong.
4) Therefore, I am not wrong.



At this point, I realize I didn't start this thread to convince doubters of anything. But I got caught up in doing that.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
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unknowing
 
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Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Postby unknowing » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:42 am

Clarify, what is a risky prediction? The stock market. What would be concrete for you other than your own experience?

I went to woodstock 99 on a thursday. It was the day before any music started. I saw a man step on a field mouse. I looked up at the people arriving and the fences that surrounded the event, and I got the bad vibe feeling that something bad would happen during the event.

When I got home on a Sunday, I turned on the the Tv and saw the riots, the fire, and the reports of rapes. Since it was an event that was traditionally known as one of "peace and love," to sense that something bad would happen was as risky as it gets.

Now, if I was a doubter, I would say, "Yeah, but you didn't specify what bad would happen. It could have been a human stampede and you have claimed that."

In the end, I can't replicate the bad vibe I felt. I can't put a bad vibe on display. I just know that when I got home to see the news, I was not surprised.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
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