Autumn Asphodel

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

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Re: Autumn Asphodel

Postby gib » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:57 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:Well, modern society is a breeding ground of mental illnesses where a majority of the population can be classified as being mentally ill in one form or another being the whole entirety of today's civilization is mentally unstable.


Exactly! And this is why I think the term "mental illness" is somewhat of a silly term. If everyone in modern society has a disorder of one form or another, then what's a "disorder"? <-- Starts to seem more like normal human behavior.

Zero_Sum wrote:Today's leaders are not philosopher kings, they're the direct opposite. They're a bunch of weak cowardly and sniveling group of oligarchic schemers that go out of their way destroying all that is natural or wholesome out of life for a majority of people. When a real philosopher king comes into existence his first priority will be to execute and purge these people out of existence for they do not deserve the very air of breath into their lungs. They all need to be executed with their heads displayed publicly on pikes by that of decapitation. There cannot be any mercy or forgiveness shown to these people whatsoever, they deserve only death.


^ And it takes a philosopher to do this, huh? This is why I don't get into politics.
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Re: Autumn Asphodel

Postby Zero_Sum » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:09 pm

gib wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:Well, modern society is a breeding ground of mental illnesses where a majority of the population can be classified as being mentally ill in one form or another being the whole entirety of today's civilization is mentally unstable.


Exactly! And this is why I think the term "mental illness" is somewhat of a silly term. If everyone in modern society has a disorder of one form or another, then what's a "disorder"? <-- Starts to seem more like normal human behavior.

Zero_Sum wrote:Today's leaders are not philosopher kings, they're the direct opposite. They're a bunch of weak cowardly and sniveling group of oligarchic schemers that go out of their way destroying all that is natural or wholesome out of life for a majority of people. When a real philosopher king comes into existence his first priority will be to execute and purge these people out of existence for they do not deserve the very air of breath into their lungs. They all need to be executed with their heads displayed publicly on pikes by that of decapitation. There cannot be any mercy or forgiveness shown to these people whatsoever, they deserve only death.


^ And it takes a philosopher to do this, huh? This is why I don't get into politics.



Exactly! And this is why I think the term "mental illness" is somewhat of a silly term. If everyone in modern society has a disorder of one form or another, then what's a "disorder"? <-- Starts to seem more like normal human behavior.


Normal behavior, or a sick society that has infected people?

And it takes a philosopher to do this, huh? This is why I don't get into politics.


Action versus apathy and indifference, seems like you're choosing the later.
"The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."

"I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death."

-Thomas Hobbes-


"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.”― Marquis de Sade

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party gives a flying fuck about you." - Unknown Origin

“In the architecture of their life some may display Potemkin happiness in view of hiding the dark features of their fair weather relationship, preferring to set up a window dressing of fake satisfaction rather than being rejected as emotional outcasts." Erik Pevernagie
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Re: Autumn Asphodel

Postby James S Saint » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:56 pm

Rationality distinguishes mental illness (unless of course, you are one of the mentally ill).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Autumn Asphodel

Postby gib » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:21 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:Normal behavior, or a sick society that has infected people?


Is the glass half full? Or is it half empty?

All I know is, the more populous a species becomes, the more diversity you'll find therein. There are between 7 and 8 billion people on this planet (last I counted). That's a lot of diversity.

Zero_Sum wrote:Action versus apathy and indifference, seems like you're choosing the later.


The latter, you mean? Well, if you look at it from a Buddhist perspective, then yes.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
- Rick Sanchez

That's earth therapy. You might as well ask a horse to fix a merry-go-round. I mean, he'll try his best, but mostly, he's just gonna get horrified.
- Rick Sanchez

You're young, you have your whole life ahead of you, and your anal cavity is still taut yet malleable.
- Rick Sanchez
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Re: Autumn Asphodel

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:35 pm

gib wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:Normal behavior, or a sick society that has infected people?


Is the glass half full? Or is it half empty?

All I know is, the more populous a species becomes, the more diversity you'll find therein. There are between 7 and 8 billion people on this planet (last I counted). That's a lot of diversity.

Zero_Sum wrote:Action versus apathy and indifference, seems like you're choosing the later.


The latter, you mean? Well, if you look at it from a Buddhist perspective, then yes.



All I know is that overcrowding creates a sort of behavioral sink, look it up.

If Buddha was alive today he would probably shoot his own face off with a pistol.
"The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."

"I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death."

-Thomas Hobbes-


"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.”― Marquis de Sade

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party gives a flying fuck about you." - Unknown Origin

“In the architecture of their life some may display Potemkin happiness in view of hiding the dark features of their fair weather relationship, preferring to set up a window dressing of fake satisfaction rather than being rejected as emotional outcasts." Erik Pevernagie
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Re: Autumn Asphodel

Postby gib » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:58 am

Zero_Sum wrote:If Buddha was alive today he would probably shoot his own face off with a pistol.


Yeah... yeah probably.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
- Rick Sanchez

That's earth therapy. You might as well ask a horse to fix a merry-go-round. I mean, he'll try his best, but mostly, he's just gonna get horrified.
- Rick Sanchez

You're young, you have your whole life ahead of you, and your anal cavity is still taut yet malleable.
- Rick Sanchez
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Re: Autumn Asphodel

Postby Zero_Sum » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:17 am

gib wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:If Buddha was alive today he would probably shoot his own face off with a pistol.


Yeah... yeah probably.

No thoughts on the behavioral sink?
"The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."

"I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death."

-Thomas Hobbes-


"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.”― Marquis de Sade

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party gives a flying fuck about you." - Unknown Origin

“In the architecture of their life some may display Potemkin happiness in view of hiding the dark features of their fair weather relationship, preferring to set up a window dressing of fake satisfaction rather than being rejected as emotional outcasts." Erik Pevernagie
User avatar
Zero_Sum
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Re: Autumn Asphodel

Postby gib » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:No thoughts on the behavioral sink?


My thoughts on behavioral sink are that it sounds like the breakdown of the population. This in turn reminds me of the cycles of growth and decline that all species go through as they continue to survive across several years. When a species' population grows significantly dense, the continued rise in the population begins to slow and eventually decline. After a significant amount of decline, it begins to grow again--sort of nature's way of maintaining population density.

Also note there's a difference between population size and population density. I would suspect behavioral sink to occur with higher population density but not necessarily size.

If you want to a call high mortality rate or cannibalism "disorders", be my guest, but it doesn't really negate my previous point that this is the expected behavior of species whose population density has grown too high.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
- Rick Sanchez

That's earth therapy. You might as well ask a horse to fix a merry-go-round. I mean, he'll try his best, but mostly, he's just gonna get horrified.
- Rick Sanchez

You're young, you have your whole life ahead of you, and your anal cavity is still taut yet malleable.
- Rick Sanchez
User avatar
gib
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Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: in your mom

Re: Autumn Asphodel

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:44 pm

gib wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:No thoughts on the behavioral sink?


My thoughts on behavioral sink are that it sounds like the breakdown of the population. This in turn reminds me of the cycles of growth and decline that all species go through as they continue to survive across several years. When a species' population grows significantly dense, the continued rise in the population begins to slow and eventually decline. After a significant amount of decline, it begins to grow again--sort of nature's way of maintaining population density.

Also note there's a difference between population size and population density. I would suspect behavioral sink to occur with higher population density but not necessarily size.

If you want to a call high mortality rate or cannibalism "disorders", be my guest, but it doesn't really negate my previous point that this is the expected behavior of species whose population density has grown too high.


Beyond cannibalism there were other behavioral dispositions of the experiment that was more notable and illustrative. Well, for a single planet like ours density is everywhere.
"The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."

"I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death."

-Thomas Hobbes-


"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.”― Marquis de Sade

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party gives a flying fuck about you." - Unknown Origin

“In the architecture of their life some may display Potemkin happiness in view of hiding the dark features of their fair weather relationship, preferring to set up a window dressing of fake satisfaction rather than being rejected as emotional outcasts." Erik Pevernagie
User avatar
Zero_Sum
Machiavellian Negator, Absurdist, And Cynic
 
Posts: 1648
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:05 pm
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Re: Autumn Asphodel

Postby gib » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:42 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:Beyond cannibalism there were other behavioral dispositions of the experiment that was more notable and illustrative. Well, for a single planet like ours density is everywhere.


I'm sure there were. My point isn't that these dispositions don't or shouldn't count as mental disorders, just that even in these cases their standing as mental disorders is still based on social constructs. We label it a "disorder" because we don't like it (or we think it needs to be fixed, or we think it's the equivalent of being sick, etc.). It's not intrinsic--there's no "mental disorder" virus running through their system.

Behavioral sink is an extreme example and makes one feel silly saying that it doesn't count as a set of mental disorders, so I'll concede that those probably ought to be labeled as mental disorders, but even in saying this, I still recognize my acceptance of this label as coming from a social function (that of signaling a condition that's undesirable or should be fixed/avoided).

Cannibalism in particular is an interesting case. For the most part, I'd agree that it probably counts as a symptom of things gone awry, and usually signals something wrong with society or the environment, but in other examples, it could count as normal behavior or even an evolutionary advantage. For example, many tribal societies partake in cannibalism. In those societies, cannibalism is looked upon as just a custom, a part of their culture, not a disorder. Or take the example of extreme food shortages. In those cases, a willingness to resort to cannibalism can be seen as an advantage. Those who are predisposed to resort to cannibalism could be seen as the "healthy" ones, those who do what's required to survive, whereas those who aren't are seen as the "weaker" ones, those who lack what's required to survive.

None of this is to say that cannibalism isn't a disorder. It isn't to say that it is a disorder either--rather, it is to say that what counts as a disorder and what doesn't depends on whether we see it as a good thing or a bad thing, a healthy thing or a sick thing, something needing to be fixed or something that can be left on its own.

^ That's my only point.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
- Rick Sanchez

That's earth therapy. You might as well ask a horse to fix a merry-go-round. I mean, he'll try his best, but mostly, he's just gonna get horrified.
- Rick Sanchez

You're young, you have your whole life ahead of you, and your anal cavity is still taut yet malleable.
- Rick Sanchez
User avatar
gib
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Posts: 8630
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: in your mom

Re: Autumn Asphodel

Postby Dan~ » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:56 am

I think humans are so spiritually inactive that they atrophy.
Some of them are overcome by new things that aren't all that powerful really.
So, some are lucky enough to spawn altars that are friendly.


Thanks to Zero_Sum i have now heard about Behavioral sink.
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