Pain/suffering

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

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Pain/suffering

Postby Artimas » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:21 pm

Is heartbreak the hardest pain to deal with, is there any suffering worse than it? Or grief from loss of love?

Just in general, loss or love I suppose, is there pain and suffering worse?

How can one overcome the loss of true love? Is it true that the grief of losing love is similar to grief from death?

A "god" who deserves worship will be humble enough to reject it; A "god" who demands worship will not be worthy of it.

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"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

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Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Pain/suffering

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:54 pm

Losing hope is excruciatingly painful, no matter what/who it was connected to.
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Re: Pain/suffering

Postby Artimas » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:11 am

WendyDarling wrote:Losing hope is excruciatingly painful, no matter what/who it was connected to.


Hope is the last thing I have left.. Not expectations, just hope.

A "god" who deserves worship will be humble enough to reject it; A "god" who demands worship will not be worthy of it.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Pain/suffering

Postby fuse » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:28 am

Artimas wrote:Is heartbreak the hardest pain to deal with, is there any suffering worse than it? Or grief from loss of love?

Just in general, loss or love I suppose, is there pain and suffering worse?

I can think of some others that might be worse or at least as bad. There are more than a few kinds of depression and misery. Having said that, yeah, heartbreak sucks.

Artimas wrote:How can one overcome the loss of true love? Is it true that the grief of losing love is similar to grief from death?

I accept no liability for the effectiveness of my advice, but since you're asking... I would say force yourself to open up and go through the motions of hanging out with friends and trying new things, even though your heart may feel like it's somewhere else. There can be time for reflection, but limit it tenaciously. Don't live in the past.
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Re: Pain/suffering

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:51 pm

Artimas wrote:Is heartbreak the hardest pain to deal with, is there any suffering worse than it? Or grief from loss of love?

Just in general, loss or love I suppose, is there pain and suffering worse?

How can one overcome the loss of true love? Is it true that the grief of losing love is similar to grief from death?


One can only become deeper.
That is even more difficult than suicide.
But it can be done. A new depth is a new truth, thus a new possibility for true love.
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Re: Pain/suffering

Postby Meno_ » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:40 pm

The worst kind of pain is trying to inform others to how to get out of their pain, knowing that their pain is your pain, and they resist it, or cannot understand its importance, or significance.
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Re: Pain/suffering

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:41 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Losing hope is excruciatingly painful, no matter what/who it was connected to.



This can be true but there are times when it offers us the most valuable lessons to learn if we hear them and adhere to them.
Last edited by Arcturus Descending on Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

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Re: Pain/suffering

Postby Meno_ » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:56 pm

When these times can still afford it, then the pain is not yet unendurable, hope is still other then a faint glimmer somewhere in the heart , other then darkness.
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Re: Pain/suffering

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:54 pm

Artimas,

How can one overcome the loss of true love? Is it true that the grief of losing love is similar to grief from death?



Perhaps the first thing one can do is ask one's self if it actually was *true* love?
Begin by questioning your belief and sensation of *true* love. This can take some of the power of the feeling of grief and loss away. Begin the journey at the beginning.

Is this actually something though that someone can overcome? You have to plow through it. One cannot be a masochist enjoying the pain of grief and loss. Simply become the observer. You need to allow moments of life and light to sneak in at times, pushing the grief aside for a little while.

Afterwards, what I have found helpful in maintaining balance and seeing a light at the end of the tunnel is gratitude. Be grateful for the time spent with her inasmuch as you honestly can and put a smile on your face despite the loss.
I think that gratitude, along with hope, ought to have been in the bottom of Pandora's box.
Maybe a grateful heart even allows for the universe to bend for us a bit.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Pain/suffering

Postby Artimas » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:50 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:Artimas,

How can one overcome the loss of true love? Is it true that the grief of losing love is similar to grief from death?



Perhaps the first thing one can do is ask one's self if it actually was *true* love?
Begin by questioning your belief and sensation of *true* love. This can take some of the power of the feeling of grief and loss away. Begin the journey at the beginning.

Is this actually something though that someone can overcome? You have to plow through it. One cannot be a masochist enjoying the pain of grief and loss. Simply become the observer. You need to allow moments of life and light to sneak in at times, pushing the grief aside for a little while.

Afterwards, what I have found helpful in maintaining balance and seeing a light at the end of the tunnel is gratitude. Be grateful for the time spent with her inasmuch as you honestly can and put a smile on your face despite the loss.
I think that gratitude, along with hope, ought to have been in the bottom of Pandora's box.
Maybe a grateful heart even allows for the universe to bend for us a bit.


I love her so much, Arc.. i am grateful for having her, i really am.. i am changing so much because her leaving brought so much to my attention.. and i am tired of carrying so much past trauma and weight on me.. i am tired of hurting and harming others.. she tried so hard to help me or tell me to change, she was such a good woman i pushed away.. anytime she waa around i felt so calm and at ease, so happy.. she broke herself trying to understand and love me.. i broke and lost myself trying to impress and love her.. we didnt self love.. we lost ourselves, we still love each other but now she is convinced we're not good together.. i think it's just the timing.. but it doesn't matter anymore, i lost her forever.. she's already talking to other guys. She said she is going to work on herself and save her emotions for herself. I am already working on myself.. i joined mma and jiu jitsu, a mma gym.. i went for the second day earlier today. I will be finding a psychologist when my insurance kicks in too..

A "god" who deserves worship will be humble enough to reject it; A "god" who demands worship will not be worthy of it.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Pain/suffering

Postby Pistolero » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:10 pm

Artimas wrote:How can one overcome the loss of true love?


Just what do you mean by ''true love''?

Wait, don't answer, let me guess. Is it love which gave birth to previously unknown, sublime feelings?
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Re: Pain/suffering

Postby mannequin01 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:03 am

Artimas wrote:Is heartbreak the hardest pain to deal with,


No, try getting hit by a hollow point.

Personally, I have never experienced this true love that people speak of, nor do i believe that it comes down to not meeting the "right" person, nor do i believe that it's apart of life or some kind of destiny of human communication. I have also noticed when somebody like myself mentions such things, people will automatically get defensive and try to justify feeling such feelings, with saying similar things like "you're missing out" or laughably my favorite "who's going to take care of you when you're old"

In my opinion, such people have a feminine nature and are more inclined to emotionalism, which expresses it self as belonging, acceptance, validation, approval, home,etc They are also very easily taken and influenced and usually try to take such chemical realities and birth them into a romantic philosophy of being human. In my opinion these people are delusional. They also try to create this as a social defacto standard where if anybody isn't regurgitating the same narrative then there must be something defective about the person.

It's even worse when they take such feelings of love and apply it across the spectrum of all living creatures, projecting it into the objective beyond its subjective relative purpose. So here love is being used as an emotional tool to deny reality of a natural tribalism that exists within human nature.

I would also say from a masculine stand point, that such feelings are experienced in a more observed sense within oneself as oppose to being felt or lived out the way it is expressed in the feminine sense. The acceptance of reality, life and death is crucial to comprehension of this.

I would also say that this modern version of love is exploited by people in order to gain a social life and the significance of self-expression, especially in a pop culture context, and for people to find meaning through purpose, who are usually devoid of identity which results from being cut off from, or unaware of their past and the nature of life in relation to survival where love is expressed as toxic desperation.
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Re: Pain/suffering

Postby gib » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:43 pm

True love in the romantic sense is an emotion that drives one to make great sacrifices for another person. The only thing selfish about it is that it's pleasurable, but the same is true of pretty much all forms of love. If it pains you to make sacrifices for another person, that's guilt, not love.
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