Is purgatory actually a state of mind?

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Is purgatory actually a state of mind?

Postby Artimas » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:56 pm

I found myself thinking of this on the brink of sadness, yet laughter sometimes escapes me. I do not even know what I am feeling anymore or how mixed feelings can get.. It causes a sort of confusion because you cannot tell the truth of feeling from the other. Perhaps they can both be felt at the same times, it feels like being trapped between two completely different worlds and realities.. Is it actually possible that purgatory could only be restricted to the mind? Perhaps that is heaven and hell... The optimistic and pessimistic approaches to life.

I never write in psychology and mind to get sympathy or to cry like a whiney child, It is perhaps always better to find others who relate to assure you of what is possible, the only fix to the human mind is through recording what approaches it, so that those in the future may know what your strengths and struggles are, there is no living thing here without it's own set of problems.. So I write to record the possibilities and perspective so that other generations may look back and understand the mindset of decision making in this time, at least a fraction of it. Every bit helps.

It is much more potent for the future children to see an attempt made than a life lived ridiculously.

A "god" who deserves worship will be humble enough to reject it; A "god" who demands worship will not be worthy of it.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Is purgatory actually a state of mind?

Postby Warlock » Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:00 am

My take on this is...

The two worlds you speak of is our perspective and our reality, the space in between is our dysfunction.

Our perspectives are shaped by our Nurture. Our reality is shaped by our Nature. When there's a disconnection between the two, it creates dysfunction in us, as we attempt to make sense of the conflicting perception. In essence, you're psyche is confused and lost, hence the feeling of purgatory. Both heaven and hell exist in our mind, depending on how our perspectives align with reality. The less in alignment your perspective is to reality, the more hellish your existence is. The more in alignment your perspective is to reality, the more utopian your existence is. Most of us are stuck spending much of our existence living in the void between the two worlds, slipping in/out of that purgatory and heaven/hell. In this purgatory, we can find a measure of peace/emptiness.
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Re: Is purgatory actually a state of mind?

Postby Artimas » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:03 am

Warlock wrote:My take on this is...

The two worlds you speak of is our perspective and our reality, the space in between is our dysfunction.

Our perspectives are shaped by our Nurture. Our reality is shaped by our Nature. When there's a disconnection between the two, it creates dysfunction in us, as we attempt to make sense of the conflicting perception. In essence, you're psyche is confused and lost, hence the feeling of purgatory. Both heaven and hell exist in our mind, depending on how our perspectives align with reality. The less in alignment your perspective is to reality, the more hellish your existence is. The more in alignment your perspective is to reality, the more utopian your existence is. Most of us are stuck spending much of our existence living in the void between the two worlds, slipping in/out of that purgatory and heaven/hell. In this purgatory, we can find a measure of peace/emptiness.


I have to agree, it reads as accurate. Thanks for the response. Not easy to discover anything at all without other perspectives to help.

A "god" who deserves worship will be humble enough to reject it; A "god" who demands worship will not be worthy of it.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Is purgatory actually a state of mind?

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:42 pm

For the time being...

I disagree with Warlock...

I think people aligned with reality have some of the most hellish lives ...

It's the ditzes that get off easy...
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Re: Is purgatory actually a state of mind?

Postby Warlock » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:14 pm

Ecmandu wrote:For the time being...

I disagree with Warlock...

I think people aligned with reality have some of the most hellish lives ...

It's the ditzes that get off easy...


Alignment with reality, means acceptance of things around you, i.e. no internal conflict between Nature and Nurture. These people are mostly at peace, they can enjoy life, without needing outer stimulation.

"Ditzes" are full of internal conflict, which is why they seek to shield themselves through self-delusion and denial. It's nothing more than an illusion though, an act that they portray to fit in, inside they're experiencing a hellish time. These people require outer stimulation to find any measure of enjoyment in life.

To illustrate, look at your stereotypical "ditzy" girl... they cannot be happy with their appearance, unless it's constantly validated by others. Do you think the Dalai Lama gives one shit about his appearance? He's comfortable with himself, so he doesn't need validation to be happy with his appearance.
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Re: Is purgatory actually a state of mind?

Postby Artimas » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:03 pm

Warlock wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:For the time being...

I disagree with Warlock...

I think people aligned with reality have some of the most hellish lives ...

It's the ditzes that get off easy...


Alignment with reality, means acceptance of things around you, i.e. no internal conflict between Nature and Nurture. These people are mostly at peace, they can enjoy life, without needing outer stimulation.

"Ditzes" are full of internal conflict, which is why they seek to shield themselves through self-delusion and denial. It's nothing more than an illusion though, an act that they portray to fit in, inside they're experiencing a hellish time. These people require outer stimulation to find any measure of enjoyment in life.

To illustrate, look at your stereotypical "ditzy" girl... they cannot be happy with their appearance, unless it's constantly validated by others. Do you think the Dalai Lama gives one shit about his appearance? He's comfortable with himself, so he doesn't need validation to be happy with his appearance.



I said this the other day too, not the exact same thing but I was talking about how a true spiritual being will understand and respect true reality rather than fight against it, more peaceful.

A "god" who deserves worship will be humble enough to reject it; A "god" who demands worship will not be worthy of it.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Is purgatory actually a state of mind?

Postby Artimas » Tue May 09, 2017 7:54 pm

I have been here for so long. I do not progress much and move in the wrong direction, depressed, no motivation to even live anymore really, other than a slight fear. I am sinking or drowning and it only gets worse most of the time.. I am not afraid of dying but I am afraid of wasting any potential that exists or could exist, I am too curious, too anxious and wary of so many possibilities.. If humans did not have a natural curiosity, I would already cease to exist and that is when people finally love you, when you are gone, and it isn't even the fact that you are gone that saddens them, but the want, their want to see you. Is that greedy?

Most of the time when someone wants to commit suicide from obvious pain or lack of belonging somewhere, they are told not to do it, that they will cause pain in others, that all these other people will be hurt.. They say you are greedy if you want to commit suicide because you want to not exist here but dismiss what others would feel about it.

I feel like it's the other side that is greedy perhaps? I know it obviously isn't objectively good or even subjectively good to the majority of people. People are saying not to do something because it will hurt them, but they're dismissing that you're hurting in the beginning, they tell you to move on and it will all get better in time, you know.. People tell you not to do it because it will make them feel sad, even if it alleviates the pain from the person doing it.. Isn't it greed that it hurts people only because they cannot see you when /they/ want to? If it isn't, how can people just move on so easily? They just take a moment to remember then move on, leave and advance in their own lives.. Idk

A "god" who deserves worship will be humble enough to reject it; A "god" who demands worship will not be worthy of it.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Is purgatory actually a state of mind?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu May 25, 2017 4:54 pm

Artimas

I personally think that purgatory, like heaven and hell, are nothing BUT states of mind.

I found myself thinking of this on the brink of sadness, yet laughter sometimes escapes me
.

I've been there Artimas. We have basically all been there.
Why does the laughter rise up at the same time? Is some level of unconsciousness attempting to diminish or to smooth over what we are feeling?
Perhaps it may also be because we are a bit ashamed to feel the sadness. Who wants to admit to being "that" human and vulnerable?


I do not even know what I am feeling anymore or how mixed feelings can get
.

You may or may "not" know. You may not as of yet be willing to come face to face with each feeling. Writing them down as they come can help you. Sit down and observe each one separately. Ask yourself why you are feeling this way. Write down what comes to you and then go on to the next observed emotion. They need to be separated.

. It causes a sort of confusion because you cannot tell the truth of feeling from the other. Perhaps they can both be felt at the same times, it feels like being trapped between two completely different worlds and realities..


What do you mean by The Truth of Feeling from the Other?


Is it actually possible that purgatory could only be restricted to the mind? Perhaps that is heaven and hell... The optimistic and pessimistic approaches to life.


Whatever we experience within our minds, also flows through our bodies and affects them too. Our so-called purgatories or heavens and hells also affect others in ways. I think that all of our emotional experiences, both the positive and the negative, affect others too. They can be either like good medicine or a virus which can spread.

I think that some of us are more hardwired to be optimistic and others pessimistic. But they don't necessarily have to lead to heaven and hell. I think that we are capable of seeing a more optimistic viewpoint. We just have to struggle to see a much larger picture and where it can take us. The pessimist needs to be more aware of what triggers/ thoughts/happenings brings him/her down that slippery path. They may have to consciously attempt to "see" farther into the darkness to see the light ahead but they can. It isn't easy to shake old patterns but it is well worth the struggle and that can teach us what we are made of.

the only fix to the human mind is through recording what approaches it, so that those in the future may know what your strengths and struggles are, there is no living thing here without it's own set of problems.
.

What about focusing on the present though? If you, yourself, come to know what your strengths and struggles are, it could be easier to deal with your purgatories, hells and yes even heavens. Too much of heaven at one time can catapult us "downward". But we still need our bits of heavens to rain down on us, to shine on us, in order to nurture.

So I write to record the possibilities and perspective so that other generations may look back and understand the mindset of decision making in this time, at least a fraction of it. Every bit helps.

So what possibilities and perspectives DO you see?


It is much more potent for the future children to see an attempt made than a life lived ridiculously.

Can you put into words here what it is which you have just taught them, Artimas? And above all, yourself?
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
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Re: Is purgatory actually a state of mind?

Postby Artimas » Tue May 30, 2017 2:20 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:Artimas

I personally think that purgatory, like heaven and hell, are nothing BUT states of mind.

I found myself thinking of this on the brink of sadness, yet laughter sometimes escapes me
.

I've been there Artimas. We have basically all been there.
Why does the laughter rise up at the same time? Is some level of unconsciousness attempting to diminish or to smooth over what we are feeling?
Perhaps it may also be because we are a bit ashamed to feel the sadness. Who wants to admit to being "that" human and vulnerable?


I do not even know what I am feeling anymore or how mixed feelings can get
.

You may or may "not" know. You may not as of yet be willing to come face to face with each feeling. Writing them down as they come can help you. Sit down and observe each one separately. Ask yourself why you are feeling this way. Write down what comes to you and then go on to the next observed emotion. They need to be separated.

. It causes a sort of confusion because you cannot tell the truth of feeling from the other. Perhaps they can both be felt at the same times, it feels like being trapped between two completely different worlds and realities..


What do you mean by The Truth of Feeling from the Other?


Is it actually possible that purgatory could only be restricted to the mind? Perhaps that is heaven and hell... The optimistic and pessimistic approaches to life.


Whatever we experience within our minds, also flows through our bodies and affects them too. Our so-called purgatories or heavens and hells also affect others in ways. I think that all of our emotional experiences, both the positive and the negative, affect others too. They can be either like good medicine or a virus which can spread.

I think that some of us are more hardwired to be optimistic and others pessimistic. But they don't necessarily have to lead to heaven and hell. I think that we are capable of seeing a more optimistic viewpoint. We just have to struggle to see a much larger picture and where it can take us. The pessimist needs to be more aware of what triggers/ thoughts/happenings brings him/her down that slippery path. They may have to consciously attempt to "see" farther into the darkness to see the light ahead but they can. It isn't easy to shake old patterns but it is well worth the struggle and that can teach us what we are made of.

the only fix to the human mind is through recording what approaches it, so that those in the future may know what your strengths and struggles are, there is no living thing here without it's own set of problems.
.

What about focusing on the present though? If you, yourself, come to know what your strengths and struggles are, it could be easier to deal with your purgatories, hells and yes even heavens. Too much of heaven at one time can catapult us "downward". But we still need our bits of heavens to rain down on us, to shine on us, in order to nurture.

So I write to record the possibilities and perspective so that other generations may look back and understand the mindset of decision making in this time, at least a fraction of it. Every bit helps.

So what possibilities and perspectives DO you see?


It is much more potent for the future children to see an attempt made than a life lived ridiculously.

Can you put into words here what it is which you have just taught them, Artimas? And above all, yourself?



it is not even what I taught them.. it has been taught so many times before us, it is merely repeating it until the future generation finally learns that it is true and should be heeded, eventually it should get through, as it was recorded many times, sometimes in different words, sometimes not.

It's balance, balance is the key to every aspect of life.. Nature seeks balance in -all- things.

Right now I am learning my weaknesses thoroughly and working to dismiss them or channel something else to replace it, tired of living in fear or anxious thought all the time.. I don't want to focus on what if's all the time, but instead the doing and being.

Yes it always begins in the mind.. It is the cycle of the ripple effect. Idea/thought > Action > Influence. Influence wraps around though you see, like this, near everything always ends up in a pattern or circle, correlations noticed through-out existence. Influence > Idea/thought > Action > Influence. The action influences others, the influence acts as a sort of catalyst for another persons idea's, they may adopt previous ideas or use influence to fuel their own individual idea's of which may be adopted.. people often adopt because it is simpler, though it is more dangerous in the long run, more of a risk.

It is the simplest teaching of all, just focus on how to think, not what to think.

I try to be more optimistic, but then again I can be pessimistic, so I settle for being a realist, usually the most truth comes out of it, it can be balance.

Truth of feeling from the other, as in which one is true. Just because I laugh at something does not equate happiness, it means for a split second I found something funny, but overall I am sad. But perhaps that's what happiness is huh? The small things that you find joy in, even if it is a second.. the second can be turned into a more lengthy time.

A "god" who deserves worship will be humble enough to reject it; A "god" who demands worship will not be worthy of it.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Is purgatory actually a state of mind?

Postby Some Guy in History » Tue May 30, 2017 7:00 pm

I am you and you are me and we are all together. Everything is everything else, all the time and yet none of the time. What is purgatory then but a state of mind that is also a residing place for the spirit, spread out in a multitude of alternate copies and myriad variations as well as even its antithesis, which only goes to show that regardless of what you try to label something, if it doesnt fit its defining label, just becomes another irony.
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