Anyone want to analyze this situation?

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

Moderator: MagsJ

Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby Warlock » Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:51 am

So, about 21 years ago I met a girl and fell for her extremely hard. This was my first taste of love and having had a pretty traumatic life growing up, I was obsessed with this girl... overlooking my own ideals/values/moralities, whatever I needed to do to be with her. Anyways, my oldest brother was friends with her father and we were pretty close in age (I was 18 and she was 15 and a 1/2 when we first met). I was strongly attracted to her and she didn't know that I even existed. I approached her father and asked if he would be alright with it, if I approached her romantically. I got shot down instantly. A couple of years later, after I joined the Army and was back on leave, I encountered her father in the neighborhood. The next morning, I got a call from this girl. Long story short, we met up and hit it off amazingly.

We then dated for the next eight years and I put up with her cheating on me multiple times (early in the relationship) because I was in love (i.e. not rational). Eventually, things went south and she broke up with me, giving a bunch of bullshit reasons to me. We didn't end on good terms and hadn't spoken since.

I started to notice health problems recently and it made me reflect on my life. I changed my paradigm and part of this was to be open and honest, so I started reaching out to people that I may have hurt or felt that I didn't treat well enough, to apologize. This girl was one of those people. I reached out through facebook messenger and she read it, but never responded. So I tried again, I just wanted to know if she actually got my message. Still no response and still no closure for me, so I looked her up in the whitepages and sent her some old photos she had given me (which I had recently found while going through my army stuff, as I reflected back on my life). I figured that she wasn't getting the messages on facebook or at least not actually reading them.

I tell her that I'm writing an autobiography (which I am) and that I'm going to be brutally honest in it... 30 minutes later, my phone rings while I'm in the shower, a restricted number... i assume it's her, but can't know for sure. The next day, I get a text from her saying that she is willing to talk. We chat for like 30 minutes, we both apologize and I extend my hand in friendship to her... she tells me that I give her anxiety and that she is afraid of me (I wasn't abusive to this girl ever and if I had wanted to do her harm, I'm a former infantryman, which means that my job for 3 years was to train to be the most effective killer I could be). So to alleviate her fears, I told her that I would share some things from the people that know me best, my students/players. She agreed and told me it'll take her a while to process it all. I felt the undertones though, she didn't want anything to do with me.

I sent her a bunch of things where these students/players expressed gratitude for helping them in High School, many are very moving and paint me in a very positive light. I also tell her that I picked up on the undertones and I asked for one final thing from her... the real reason she broke up with me. Now, when we broke up, she put it all on my shoulders. Using all manner of reasons that were blatantly false or completely irrational. It always ate away at me and I wanted to get closure.

She calls me the next day, bitching at me for sending a bunch of messages (90% were of what she asked for). So I calm her down and she tells me that I was correct about the reasons she gave me being bullshit, then she tells me that she broke up with me because I'm a "pusher"... I push people to be better and she hated that about me (i still think this is bullshit, but it's better than I made her feel bad for horseback riding because my brother talked about how horses would rather be out in the wild than in a stable). When we were about to get off the phone this time, she brought up my autobiography and wanted to know how I was going to portray her now.

All that said, I know that her mother was pressuring her to leave me. Her and her mother are very success-orientated people and I'm the opposite, I couldn't care less about financial success, as long as I can get by and do what makes me content/happy. So my analysis of this situation is that she is afraid to associate with me in any manner, because her mother and friends would be disapproving of it. I can see a lot of guilt too, like she doesn't want to face herself for how she treated me. I also think that the only reason she called me was to avoid being painted negatively in my writings... I told her that I was going to be brutally honest, but that I would change her name and not give away identifying details (like her ivy-league school's name or the company that she works for).

I gleaned from our two conversations that she is a workaholic (she's a data analyst and software developer for a pharmaceutical company, I cannot see this as fulfilling at all) and that she only surrounds herself with people who are "OK" with her being the way she is, either you accept her and her actions or you can fuck off basically, no compromise. To me, this seems like a pretty miserable existence by itself, but she has also played World of Warcraft for over 12 years now)... I held my tongue and avoided being judgmental or preachy though, as I knew it would only lead to an argument. It actually makes me sad that she is living such a life... I believe she has shaped her reality to better fit her perspective, i.e. she's living in a prison of self-denial and delusion.

What do you guys think is going on psychologically here, do you agree or disagree with my analysis?
Warlock
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:37 am
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby Meno_ » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:44 am

Very briefly, i had almost the identical situation. My second immature attempt with a girl was dependent on her mother's approval, and this girl had 5 sisters, the father was an ineffectual person.. When she heard i was joining the navy , the relationship went south. She required an academic career minded young man for her daugjter. Eventually she became a doctor like her dad, and i was glad the thing ended the way it had, for we would have broken up anyway. I want to reassure You, that your story is not that rare.
Meno_
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2606
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby Warlock » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:40 pm

jerkey wrote:Very briefly, i had almost the identical situation. My second immature attempt with a girl was dependent on her mother's approval, and this girl had 5 sisters, the father was an ineffectual person.. When she heard i was joining the navy , the relationship went south. She required an academic career minded young man for her daugjter. Eventually she became a doctor like her dad, and i was glad the thing ended the way it had, for we would have broken up anyway. I want to reassure You, that your story is not that rare.


I appreciate your reassurance and I understand that we all have our issues, manifesting in a large variety of ways. I'm just trying to process it all atm, in doing so, my preference is to bounce my thoughts/ideas off of others... hearing from other perspectives allows me to externalize things and view things from a wider lens.

I have a pretty keen perception and my evaluations are usually accurate, especially when interpreting people. For example, my feeling of the situation was that she was afraid of disapproval and facing me (due to her leaving me for the same reasons). I also think that she has conditioned herself to believe the reasons she gave me, about me being a pusher and her not dealing well with that type of person... I see it as a fallacy though, if a person was actually content with the type of person they are, they wouldn't be trying to escape the world around them (via working all the time and spending what little free time they have in a virtual world, doing virtual things with virtual friends). Add in the desire to only surround yourself with others that do not challenge you or expect fair/equal treatment, I see a pretty miserable existence here... which explains the way she reacted to me. I mean it had been almost 10 years since I spoke to her in any form or manner, a content person wouldn't have been so apprehensive about responding. Besides, she could have just blocked me, but she didn't... why not?

I'm mostly over the whole thing now, just processing out those final little details/questions that our encounter brought up.
Warlock
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:37 am
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby Meno_ » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:14 pm

I really wish You well, but , at least for me, getting through it is harder then it sounds .
You made it through, and you've got my admiration.
.
Meno_
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2606
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby Warlock » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:19 pm

jerkey wrote:I really wish You well, but , at least for me, getting through it is harder then it sounds .
You made it through, and you've got my admiration.


It is definitely hard, but I have recently become conscious of myself. I still have the same conditioning, acculturation and indoctrination influencing me at every turn; but I can at least see it now and make a conscious choice. I feel the disappointment, frustration and resentment in this situation... it's how I initially react to people not living up to my personal ideals... but I slow it down, take a step back and change my thinking to better reflect reality rather than my own personal perspective of how I want to be applied to others. As more time goes on, I will become more and more conditioned to being the person I want to be, as opposed to the person that the world has shaped. It's a struggle right now though... I wanted to tear into her for being a dumb ass and I wanted to force her to see things the way I do... that's the old me though, the person that was consumed by disappointment, frustration, resentment, depression and apathy. So ultimately, I forced myself to accept the situation and realized that I followed my conscience. I can only control myself in this world and as long as I did what I feel is right, I'm contented.

What I'm currently grappling with, is my desire to help others vs someone resistant to that help. Do I try to help anyways... I know that it'll be a terrible thing to face and it will involve a lot of pain, but if they do face it, they'll be much better off in the long term. Depending on how deep the delusions are, it could also have the opposite effect and make them retreat further into their fantasy. Do I take the fact that she didn't block me and actually responded as a subconscious desire for help or merely just take it as coincidence?
Warlock
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:37 am
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:05 pm

What I'm currently grappling with, is my desire to help others vs someone resistant to that help.


So, let me understand this. What you seem to be saying here is that you are conflicted. You would prefer to help someone who does not wish to be helped by you.
You would choose to waste your time and energy on a lost cause then direct that time and energy toward some who might wish for the help and actually be helped as a result of it.
If that IS the case, then perhaps it's more about you here and less about her. Maybe you're just not willing and able to let go as of yet.

Do I try to help anyways... I know that it'll be a terrible thing to face and it will involve a lot of pain, but if they do face it, they'll be much better off in the long term
.

i always hated that word "anyways". Anyway, I suppose if you feel that your heart is in the right place, your intentions are good, though let's remember that sometimes "hell IS paved with good intentions" ~~ then if she is amenable, which she doesn't really appear to be - too much water over the bridge, so to speak ~~ then try to help her. But personally, I think you need to let it go. It's possible your need to help her is based more on your unwillingness to let go.
Sometimes the greatest help we can give is also the most difficult - that of letting go.

Depending on how deep the delusions are, it could also have the opposite effect and make them retreat further into their fantasy. Do I take the fact that she didn't block me and actually responded as a subconscious desire for help or merely just take it as coincidence?

I think that it might probably be a good thing if you focused on your own emotional and mental health, finding things in your life which can lead to a more optimal life and make you happy.
You may just be, in a sense, too close to her to help her, if that is in actuality, your main purpose with her. I'm not saying that it isn't.
You need to reflect hard on this and see things as they really are, not as you maybe want to see them.
But we usually do what we want to do no matter what so ................."to do no harm or much less harm".....
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 14945
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: Ecstasy on Earth.

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby Warlock » Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:48 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
What I'm currently grappling with, is my desire to help others vs someone resistant to that help.


So, let me understand this. What you seem to be saying here is that you are conflicted. You would prefer to help someone who does not wish to be helped by you.
You would choose to waste your time and energy on a lost cause then direct that time and energy toward some who might wish for the help and actually be helped as a result of it.
If that IS the case, then perhaps it's more about you here and less about her. Maybe you're just not willing and able to let go as of yet.

Do I try to help anyways... I know that it'll be a terrible thing to face and it will involve a lot of pain, but if they do face it, they'll be much better off in the long term
.

i always hated that word "anyways". Anyway, I suppose if you feel that your heart is in the right place, your intentions are good, though let's remember that sometimes "hell IS paved with good intentions" ~~ then if she is amenable, which she doesn't really appear to be - too much water over the bridge, so to speak ~~ then try to help her. But personally, I think you need to let it go. It's possible your need to help her is based more on your unwillingness to let go.
Sometimes the greatest help we can give is also the most difficult - that of letting go.

Depending on how deep the delusions are, it could also have the opposite effect and make them retreat further into their fantasy. Do I take the fact that she didn't block me and actually responded as a subconscious desire for help or merely just take it as coincidence?

I think that it might probably be a good thing if you focused on your own emotional and mental health, finding things in your life which can lead to a more optimal life and make you happy.
You may just be, in a sense, too close to her to help her, if that is in actuality, your main purpose with her. I'm not saying that it isn't.
You need to reflect hard on this and see things as they really are, not as you maybe want to see them.
But we usually do what we want to do no matter what so ................."to do no harm or much less harm".....


I understand where you're coming from and without knowing more about me, I would likely see it very similar.

My personality is that of a mentor, always has been and always will be. I am definitely a "pusher", I honestly desire to see people better themselves. Is this outlook selfish? Of course it is, it makes me feel contented to see others succeed. I'm currently writing my autobiography on another tab, but when I want to take a small break, I check here. I'm just working it out in my head, attempting to process the recent situation fully. Am I over-analyzing it, yes, but that is because of how my brain works and has always worked... I contemplate anything and everything, I try to view things from every possible perspective, to better understand. Eventually I come to a conclusion, but I'm flexible in my beliefs, willing to adjust them as new information is presented.

I'm content and happy for the most part now. I'm still working on becoming the person that I desire to be. I'm very fulfilled in the work I do, even if I'm not financially secure. Socially, I'm a bit lonely, but I have always been so. I mean I have lots of people around me and I am well liked, but it all feels hollow to me, I don't feel like I can relate to people at the level that I want to. I'm bored by the mundane and uninterested in small talk, but that is what the vast majority of people engage in. I'm too intelligent for my own good and it makes me walk a lonely path in life.

This situation is not about efficiency or effectiveness. I don't know the optimal or best route here, I'm merely trying to see if there's deeper meaning in it all. When actions do not conform to words, it gets me curious to understand why. Based on my current understanding of Psychology, there's something going on under her words. As a mentor personality and someone that desires to help, I'm having a conflict... between what I perceive and what I was told. That's all it is.

P.S. words do not always match desire. While she might have said one thing, that might not be want she actually wants... she just might see it as her only option or the easier road to follow. This is commonplace with damaged people, they will say/do anything to avoid facing their traumas, even things that they do not actually desire. Hence my curiosity when some of her actions weren't consistent with her words.

Empirically, I used to do the same thing I see her doing now. When things became too much for me to handle, I would seek to escape reality (i.e. the flight response). When I couldn't escape, because people/events forced me to face my issues, I responded with irrationally (i.e. the fight response). I see her as being in the flight response and when I contacted her, forcing her to face her issues, she responded irrationally to me. Which is fine and I accept it for what it is, there are little details that have me thinking... like why she didn't flat out block my messages, why she was up at 2:00 AM reading them, why she got angry at me for doing as she asked, etc... all these things show me something that her words contradicted. If she was truly content and at peace with herself, like she stated, these details paint a different picture. I know that she may not be ready for help yet or I'm not the right person to help her, but that doesn't change my desire to see her get help.
Last edited by Warlock on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Warlock
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:37 am
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby The Golden Turd » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:18 pm

I see it as a fallacy though, if a person was actually content with the type of person they are, they wouldn't be trying to escape the world around them (via working all the time and spending what little free time they have in a virtual world, doing virtual things with virtual friends). Add in the desire to only surround yourself with others that do not challenge you or expect fair/equal treatment, I see a pretty miserable existence here... which explains the way she reacted to me. I mean it had been almost 10 years since I spoke to her in any form or manner, a content person wouldn't have been so apprehensive about responding. Besides, she could have just blocked me, but she didn't... why not?


Doubtful. Honestly, that is just likely who she is. Those jobs exist for certain types, your presumptions on life, worthiness, likely drove you two apart. If you still don't get this about her, all the better you've moved apart. You appear to of been a formative impact on her persona, given you were with her eight years, and that she to this day finds happiness in living exactly how you don't like her to live. She is clearly still holding a grudge.

Honestly, everyone has had bad ex girlfriends like this, I can point to three programmers, two of which thought they were artists too. I now just avoid them once I hear the profession. Lots of intellectual window dressing, but no real depth.

Every once in a while, I will look up a woman I once found attractive..... one I knew, was with, or just saw on TV, and looked them up..... especially those who rejected me. I want to see how they turned out.

Man.... some have bad mom hair, sitting in the suburbs, living disturbingly lame lives. They had like, absolutely no intention of being a woman, just went directly into boring mom mode..... like the day after the honeymoon went and got that stupid unsexual mom haircut and bought a minivan and expanding pants that go up around the waist, fully expecting from now on to be fat..... just throw out all the skinny clothes.

Some are dating fucking bizarre guys, I just look at them scratching my head, like.... wow, never would of guessed.

Most just haven't aged well. Some have.... most don't. I can't really agree with the lives many live. But a few look great, and have decent lives.... so I just focus on all the traits in them when looking at women now. I just presume most women are useless pieces of shit trying to make it by on a few years of good looks, then once they figure out who they are and what they want.... they leave for that, settle for it, however low and lame it is. Had I known this about them, I never would of paid the least amount of attention to them.

It is why I would prefer a plain girl who leads a great life over a attractive woman who is just gonna melt away into a boring shit. You really can't tell this of women before they hot menopause.... I mean maybe a little in her 30s after a kid or two..... you can tell. Most just..... dammit.

I am there for incredibly thankful to any woman who doesn't get me or what I am about. I gotta move on. I gotta find those women who resembled the ones I know who had great traits early on, good personality, and good looks..... and kept them while aging. And women.... when they are determined to age inti a boring as fuck soccer mom, can accomplish that well before 30. You just look at her and she looks old, wore down. But my deepest crushes growing up are still lively, doing impressive things.

Oh..... 8 years, no marriage? I would of just wandered off realizing it was a dead end years earlier. I will stay three years max, if you still got doubts, then seriously, it is time to split. If she isn't into you that much yet, she never will be. Yes, she has emotional attachments, meeting to talk just ends up in accidental sex no matter the clever precautions you take.... but your dating her friends and family too, and a few of them completely unbeknownst to you is stabbing a knife in your back. I was informed by my girlfriends young niece that her aunt was insisting on her never marrying me. This was the weekend before my deployment to Iraq..... her sister had cone to the US from the Ukraine, found a man with property, got knocked up, and divorced him, taking everything. I had no property to have stolen.... so family did not approve. She is now in Europe getting shot at. Bye-bye. 8 years ago I would of rushed after her, taken up arms near the nearest underpass militia for either side just to ensure she got rations and safety. Now I see that phenomena everywhere, and just am increasingly unimpressed with women in general. I can only point to a few as worthwhile, honestly.... fuck the rest.
Support "The Angels of East Africa" on smile.Amazon.com it is free to do, they donate 0.05% of your purchase cost to them, or give donations directly via:

http://www.machinegunpreacher.org

Image

Recently hidden post:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=192227&p=2649513#p2649513
User avatar
The Golden Turd
Fucking Unflushable
 
Posts: 9450
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:37 am
Location: Apparently Well Up Manical Mongoose's Ass

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby Warlock » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:42 pm

Turd Ferguson wrote:
I see it as a fallacy though, if a person was actually content with the type of person they are, they wouldn't be trying to escape the world around them (via working all the time and spending what little free time they have in a virtual world, doing virtual things with virtual friends). Add in the desire to only surround yourself with others that do not challenge you or expect fair/equal treatment, I see a pretty miserable existence here... which explains the way she reacted to me. I mean it had been almost 10 years since I spoke to her in any form or manner, a content person wouldn't have been so apprehensive about responding. Besides, she could have just blocked me, but she didn't... why not?


Doubtful. Honestly, that is just likely who she is. Those jobs exist for certain types, your presumptions on life, worthiness, likely drove you two apart. If you still don't get this about her, all the better you've moved apart. You appear to of been a formative impact on her persona, given you were with her eight years, and that she to this day finds happiness in living exactly how you don't like her to live. She is clearly still holding a grudge.

Honestly, everyone has had bad ex girlfriends like this, I can point to three programmers, two of which thought they were artists too. I now just avoid them once I hear the profession. Lots of intellectual window dressing, but no real depth.

Every once in a while, I will look up a woman I once found attractive..... one I knew, was with, or just saw on TV, and looked them up..... especially those who rejected me. I want to see how they turned out.

Man.... some have bad mom hair, sitting in the suburbs, living disturbingly lame lives. They had like, absolutely no intention of being a woman, just went directly into boring mom mode..... like the day after the honeymoon went and got that stupid unsexual mom haircut and bought a minivan and expanding pants that go up around the waist, fully expecting from now on to be fat..... just throw out all the skinny clothes.

Some are dating fucking bizarre guys, I just look at them scratching my head, like.... wow, never would of guessed.

Most just haven't aged well. Some have.... most don't. I can't really agree with the lives many live. But a few look great, and have decent lives.... so I just focus on all the traits in them when looking at women now. I just presume most women are useless pieces of shit trying to make it by on a few years of good looks, then once they figure out who they are and what they want.... they leave for that, settle for it, however low and lame it is. Had I known this about them, I never would of paid the least amount of attention to them.

It is why I would prefer a plain girl who leads a great life over a attractive woman who is just gonna melt away into a boring shit. You really can't tell this of women before they hot menopause.... I mean maybe a little in her 30s after a kid or two..... you can tell. Most just..... dammit.

I am there for incredibly thankful to any woman who doesn't get me or what I am about. I gotta move on. I gotta find those women who resembled the ones I know who had great traits early on, good personality, and good looks..... and kept them while aging. And women.... when they are determined to age inti a boring as fuck soccer mom, can accomplish that well before 30. You just look at her and she looks old, wore down. But my deepest crushes growing up are still lively, doing impressive things.

Oh..... 8 years, no marriage? I would of just wandered off realizing it was a dead end years earlier. I will stay three years max, if you still got doubts, then seriously, it is time to split. If she isn't into you that much yet, she never will be. Yes, she has emotional attachments, meeting to talk just ends up in accidental sex no matter the clever precautions you take.... but your dating her friends and family too, and a few of them completely unbeknownst to you is stabbing a knife in your back. I was informed by my girlfriends young niece that her aunt was insisting on her never marrying me. This was the weekend before my deployment to Iraq..... her sister had cone to the US from the Ukraine, found a man with property, got knocked up, and divorced him, taking everything. I had no property to have stolen.... so family did not approve. She is now in Europe getting shot at. Bye-bye. 8 years ago I would of rushed after her, taken up arms near the nearest underpass militia for either side just to ensure she got rations and safety. Now I see that phenomena everywhere, and just am increasingly unimpressed with women in general. I can only point to a few as worthwhile, honestly.... fuck the rest.


Interestingly enough, the only things that I used to push her about, was her morality and facing her past issues so she could grow as a person. I didn't once talk to her about her career or her hobbies, because I didn't really care about that stuff to be honest.

The decision to not get married was my own. I don't agree with the symbolism of a ceremony making any difference in how you see your partner... it's done for the sake of others and how they perceive you.

I do agree with you on certain things, but not all of it. People as a whole, are increasingly unimpressive in general (not just women). This is because I feel most people are sleepwalking through life; unaware of all their conditioning, acculturation and indoctrination; manipulating and controlling them to be something that they're not. I see the natural state of humans as what we see in small children... open, honest, curious, nonjudgmental, empathetic and compassionate... it's only after all the conditioning, acculturation and indoctrination that they change into delusional, selfish, hurtful, boring, deceitful flesh bags that infect our species.
Warlock
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:37 am
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:51 pm

My personality is that of a mentor, always has been and always will be.


I might also say that this, in part, is one facet of my personality.

As for "always will be" that would depend on how you evolve. You might at some point let go of that, depending on how you grow.

I am definitely a "pusher", I honestly desire to see people better themselves. Is this outlook selfish?


No, I wouldn't call it selfish unless you push "too hard" and someone isn't willing to "go" where you want them to. Sometimes we are just not ready for what someone has to offer.

Of course it is, it makes me feel contented to see others succeed.


So that's part of your raison de etre?

I'm currently writing my autobiography on another tab, but when I want to take a small break, I check here.


I'm not saying that it isn't but do you consider your life to be that interesting? Or perhaps it has more to do with what someone might learn from you as a result of reading you. Every little bit helps.

I'm just working it out in my head, attempting to process the recent situation fully. Am I over-analyzing it
,

I don't know if you're over-analyzing it. You may be. I find that the more we analyze or over-analyze, all we're really doing is rationalizing. I personally think that it is good at times to take a break from that kind of thinking. If you don't, there won't be any space within for something "real" to come in, like an epiphany of sort, a realization.

yes, but that is because of how my brain works and has always worked... I contemplate anything and everything
,

lol You don't mean like "why did I have that cheeseburger last night and not what I really wanted, the tuna melt"?
You did say anything and everything.


I try to view things from every possible perspective, to better understand. Eventually I come to a conclusion, but I'm flexible in my beliefs, willing to adjust them as new information is presented.


That's a good way to be. Like Freddie said, turning everything upside down, inside out, sideways, back and forth. (paraphrasing).
By conclusion, do you mean having a final answer on it? Or a better understanding though not a complete one?



I
'm content and happy for the most part now. I'm still working on becoming the person that I desire to be.


So you're a potter?

Socially, I'm a bit lonely, but I have always been so. I mean I have lots of people around me and I am well liked, but it all feels hollow to me,


Is that because you feel something is "missing" or because you are more or less a solitary person, content with your own presence?

I don't feel like I can relate to people at the level that I want to. I'm bored by the mundane and uninterested in small talk, but that is what the vast majority of people engage in. I'm too intelligent for my own good and it makes me walk a lonely path in life.

But if you enjoy your "aloneness" maybe it isn't so much of a "lonely" path.


This situation is not about efficiency or effectiveness. I don't know the optimal or best route here, I'm merely trying to see if there's deeper meaning in it all.


I don't necessarily think that there is deeper meaning in anything except for how we apply that. Maybe it's more about why we need to feel there is deeper meaning rather than there actually being deeper meaning. We're the sculptors.
But I personally feel that we do need to find deeper meaning in things. It enhances our lives, makes us want to live because we enjoy life more then. Nothing hedonistic about that.

When actions do not conform to words, it gets me curious to understand why
.
Maybe sometimes we are just not fully conscious of what we are saying at certain times. We don't see consequences. We're flippant about our words even though at the time we feel that we have good intentions and that we are being honest.
We're human beings and we're flawed, we're quite changeable according to whims and moods.
Sometimes people fall in love as quickly as they fall out of love.


Based on my current understanding of Psychology, there's something going on under her words. As a mentor personality and someone that desires to help, I'm having a conflict... between what I perceive and what I was told. That's all it is.

I'm reminded here of the saying about not being able to see the trees for the forest.
Anyway, people are complex individuals you know. You may not get your answer. It may be more important to you than it is to her.

....between what I perceive and what I was told


On a scale of 1 to 10, how important is it to you not to let go of this?

P.S. words do not always match desire.


This is true. Maybe because we are sometimes ashamed to admit what it is we desire, instead of just looking at that without judging ourselves. It's difficult i think to be honest and open with someone. It's like being naked before them. Much of who we are or at least believe we are is revealed to someone and that's a difficult thing for us.
I don't think that we can ever go back though. Maybe go back to something else perhaps something which might even be better in a sense than what was before.
The bottom line is that people cannot be mentored or helped unless they want to be.
I really do think though that relationships can be really complex and convoluted. There is really not one easy answer to be had.


While she might have said one thing, that might not be want she actually wants... she just might see it as her only option or the easier road to follow. This is commonplace with damaged people, they will say/do anything to avoid facing their traumas, even things that they do not actually desire. Hence my curiosity when some of her actions weren't consistent with her words.


If you know this, then why the curiosity? Unless you are a psychiatrist or a psychologist, and even they at times must tred lightly, I think we need to be careful about how we treat, I mean deal with, those who we believe are traumatized or feel "damaged" as you say.
"Know Thyself" I really believe that the more we do learn about ourselves, the more we can understand others if we're willing to.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 14945
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: Ecstasy on Earth.

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby Warlock » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:36 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:I might also say that this, in part, is one facet of my personality.

As for "always will be" that would depend on how you evolve. You might at some point let go of that, depending on how you grow.


Figure of speech. Can't qualify every statement with all possible interpretations and/or meanings. I simply meant that I do not see myself changing.

No, I wouldn't call it selfish unless you push "too hard" and someone isn't willing to "go" where you want them to. Sometimes we are just not ready for what someone has to offer.


At it's core, It is a selfish action, because I'm doing for my own gains. There might be a mutual benefit, but my motivation is for my own desires. I see it as part of my true nature and part of my own conscience... we're empathetic and compassionate in our natural state, a result of the social aspect of our species. I endured a lot of trauma in my life and my biggest influences were from mentors, therefore, understanding how these two conflicting influences affected me. I feel it is very important to avoid inflicting trauma on others and mentor those that need it.

So that's part of your raison de etre?


One aspect of it, yes.

I'm not saying that it isn't but do you consider your life to be that interesting? Or perhaps it has more to do with what someone might learn from you as a result of reading you. Every little bit helps.


I started it as a way to process my past. I would say that my life has been fairly interesting, more so than many at least. I want to share my story to maybe help someone going through something similar, not because I desire to profit off of it. I will either give it away for free or charge a small amount and use that to form a foundation which helps people deal with emotional issues.

I don't know if you're over-analyzing it. You may be. I find that the more we analyze or over-analyze, all we're really doing is rationalizing. I personally think that it is good at times to take a break from that kind of thinking. If you don't, there won't be any space within for something "real" to come in, like an epiphany of sort, a realization.


Many times, during my analysis, I will begin looking from other perspectives. The more views I examine, the more information is processed, thus the higher chance of intellectual growth... as new information is contemplated, processed and my current views adapt to the new information.

lol You don't mean like "why did I have that cheeseburger last night and not what I really wanted, the tuna melt"?
You did say anything and everything.


Figure of speech again, but yes, sometimes I ponder mundane things such as my meal selection as well. Usually it's whatever I'm currently exposed to, as my mind then goes on a huge journey, looking at the "thing" from every conceivable angle (figure of speech here).

That's a good way to be. Like Freddie said, turning everything upside down, inside out, sideways, back and forth. (paraphrasing).
By conclusion, do you mean having a final answer on it? Or a better understanding though not a complete one?


There is no complete answer. Only temporary answers, based on our current understanding. Some people will form an opinion and refuse to accept new information after the fact, resulting in ignorance. I seek out knowledge, to better shape my conclusions. If I didn't, I wouldn't have made this post in the first place. Unfortunately, I still have questions and in order to be respectful, I'm not going to bother her any more... so I seek my knowledge elsewhere.

So you're a potter?


We're all malleable. I have almost 40 years worth of conditioning, acculturation and indoctrination to undo; so it's going to take some time to retrain myself in the manner consistent with how I now view the world.

Is that because you feel something is "missing" or because you are more or less a solitary person, content with your own presence?


I'm missing something, otherwise I would be completely content/happy. Our true nature is to be social, unfortunately though, I do not find fulfillment in the same things many others do... therefore my social desires aren't fully met, hence the feeling of loneliness.

But if you enjoy your "aloneness" maybe it isn't so much of a "lonely" path.


There are times I prefer to be alone, but I wouldn't say that I enjoy "aloneness". This is because, we're a social species and it's in our DNA.

I don't necessarily think that there is deeper meaning in anything except for how we apply that. Maybe it's more about why we need to feel there is deeper meaning rather than there actually being deeper meaning. We're the sculptors.
But I personally feel that we do need to find deeper meaning in things. It enhances our lives, makes us want to live because we enjoy life more then. Nothing hedonistic about that.


Perception vs perspective? As the complexity increases, so to must the way we view it. The human psyche is very complex, thus superficial views aren't going to increase our knowledge or understanding of it. There's definitely deeper meanings to anything with complexity and multiple levels of understanding.

Maybe sometimes we are just not fully conscious of what we are saying at certain times. We don't see consequences. We're flippant about our words even though at the time we feel that we have good intentions and that we are being honest.
We're human beings and we're flawed, we're quite changeable according to whims and moods.
Sometimes people fall in love as quickly as they fall out of love.


Exactly, not fully conscious. there are reasons behind everything we do... cause and effect. We may not be aware of the who/what/where/when/why of it, but it doesn't stop us from doing things, i.e. subconscious. Our actions/words aren't accidents, they result from either our conscious or subconscious minds.

Based on my current understanding of Psychology, there's something going on under her words. As a mentor personality and someone that desires to help, I'm having a conflict... between what I perceive and what I was told. That's all it is.
I'm reminded here of the saying about not being able to see the trees for the forest.
Anyway, people are complex individuals you know. You may not get your answer. It may be more important to you than it is to her.


I'll use this analogy... just because I did or didn't save a puppy from a burning building, doesn't necessarily mean that I cannot try to save the next puppy from a burning building. Circumstances may prevent me from being successful, but I can at least say that I was true to myself. If we're being honest here, I should hate this girl for all the shit she unfairly put me through... this is probably why she is afraid of me and thinks that I might hurt her, in her mind such a response seems reasonable, because she has hurt people for far less. It's much easier to write people off than it is to deal with your baggage and be true to your nature.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how important is it to you not to let go of this?


10. By not being true to myself, I'm damaging me and as a result... those around me, who then damage those around them. Creating a giant ripple of damage that eventually affects everyone. I think that I'm going to wait until after I finish my book and send her a copy, she will be able to read my honest thoughts there. Before, during and after I knew her.

This is true. Maybe because we are sometimes ashamed to admit what it is we desire, instead of just looking at that without judging ourselves. It's difficult i think to be honest and open with someone. It's like being naked before them. Much of who we are or at least believe we are is revealed to someone and that's a difficult thing for us.
I don't think that we can ever go back though. Maybe go back to something else perhaps something which might even be better in a sense than what was before.
The bottom line is that people cannot be mentored or helped unless they want to be.
I really do think though that relationships can be really complex and convoluted. There is really not one easy answer to be had.


I agree.

If you know this, then why the curiosity? Unless you are a psychiatrist or a psychologist, and even they at times must tred lightly, I think we need to be careful about how we treat, I mean deal with, those who we believe are traumatized or feel "damaged" as you say.
"Know Thyself" I really believe that the more we do learn about ourselves, the more we can understand others if we're willing to.


Exactly, that's why I didn't "push" her during our recent talks. I merely evaluated her and realized that she is consciously against seeking help, but subconsciously showing something contrary to that. I will likely let sleeping dogs lie for the time being, when I release my book, she will have little choice but to face herself... although, if her words held truth, it shouldn't bother her at all.
Warlock
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:37 am
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:47 am

Despite rumors to the contrary, actually everyone doesn't know how to love.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25771
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:54 am

JSS,

I agree. Please elaborate on how to love proper.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6324
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:31 am

Maniacal Mongoose wrote:JSS,

I agree. Please elaborate on how to love proper.

"Proper" isn't quite the right word. "Real" is more precise.

The real way to actually accomplish love is to at least instinctively, if not cognitively as well, learn of:

    1) the true/real/actual need compendium of the one to be loved.
    2) the actual truth of how such needs can be best met in the real world.
    3) what means you might have to participate in such a direction and endeavor.

A simple minded example:
Someone has apparently committed a social crime that authority figures choose to punish by death. The real truth of the situation of Man is that simple punishment ("retribution"/"vindication"/"pay-back"), certainly punishment by death, doesn't serve the individual nor the society as a whole. Thus if you are in a jury situation wherein you get a vote (or other non-destructive means), you vote toward preventing the crime of capital punishment (assuming that you love either society or any individuals within.

So in this case:
1) The "Need Compendium" (for either the individual or the society) = to live
2) The "Real Situation" of the moment that allows for (1) = jury trial situation in a society
3) The "Real Means to Participate" toward the love = vote in favor of avoiding capital punishment.

In a more directly personal situation wherein a man loves a woman who doesn't feel the same:
1) = to feel joy in harmonizing with her surroundings.
2) = her limited perspective in a chaotic, somewhat harsh social, psychological, and medical environment.
3) = his ability to inspire her in a direction toward that greater harmony which might include:
    _a) feeling a love for him (who understands how to help her achieve her need compendium)
    _b) feeling a freedom to sense out a more probable resolve to her need compendium (perhaps a different suitor)
    _c) sensing a desire to change her situation in society (relocation, different job, whatever) toward something more favorable to her need compendium.
    _d) teach her of the cognitive understanding involved in achieving one's need compendium
    _e) cause her to emotionally understand her need compendium and how to achieve it
    _f) just leave her to the situation in which she was found until more capable to fulfill her need compendium
    _g) take it upon oneself to learn how to be loving before attempting to screw around with the lives and need compendium of others.
    .
    .

Oh, and did I mention the "Need Compendium"? It's as easy as "1, 2, 3". 8)


I suspect the OPer can understand this.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25771
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:52 am

JSS,

This new version of yours with the catch phrase and all is deserving of =D> . That compendium is tricky though; it's not a 1, 2, 3 walk in the park. However, I still agree with your albeit masculinized vision in both it's simple and complex forms.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6324
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby CelineK » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:53 am

thats because loving one self first is the most important.

life stories comes into many flavors but there only is one and sole dilemma: a generational fear of being

psychoanalysis is a left brain trap

James S Saint wrote:Despite rumors to the contrary, actually everyone doesn't know how to love.
The Laws Of Light, Emotions And Sexuality. http://www.celinek.net The time has come in the history of man's journey from his material jungle to his spiritual mountain top when it is imperative that he must live more and more in the cosmic Light universe of knowing, and less in the electric wave universe of sensing -- Walter Russell.
=============================================================
A Money-Free Society Is Now Reality! The natural liberty of man is to be free from any superior power on earth and not to fall under the will or legislative authority of man but only have the law of nature (immutable principles) for his rule. Samuel Adams. -- http://www.earthcustodians.net
User avatar
CelineK
 
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:37 pm
Location: No Man's Land In A Money-Free Wold

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby Leyla » Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:10 am

CelineK wrote:thats because loving one self first is the most important.

Why?
Doesn't it work the other way around: Loving another person first an then loving oneself for being able to love, or for being a lover of that other person?
User avatar
Leyla
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:58 pm

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:54 am

Maniacal Mongoose wrote:JSS,

This new version of yours with the catch phrase and all is deserving of =D> . That compendium is tricky though; it's not a 1, 2, 3 walk in the park. However, I still agree with your albeit masculinized vision in both it's simple and complex forms.

The "easy as 1, 2, 3" bit was facetious. :wink:

And for those unfamiliar with the terms, he who accomplishes such a course of action for even one other being, is in fact a "lord" of and for that being. And thus he who wishes to truly love a true lady, must learn to be a true lord.

And for the Femnazies in the crowd, the same fundamentals also apply to being a true lady, although the outcome is strongly different. This is so because despite propaganda and lustful power aspirations, the male and the female do NOT have the same Need Compendium.

Leyla wrote:
CelineK wrote:thats because loving one self first is the most important.

Why?
Doesn't it work the other way around: Loving another person first an then loving oneself for being able to love, or for being a lover of that other person?

Exactly. The meme "to love others one must first love oneself" was an intentional ploy to entrap people (most specifically women) and socialist governors into loving only themselves, fore once selfishness and power is accomplished, it is very difficult to unlearn or give up via anything but death (just look at Hillary).

To love oneself first, is to love oneself Only and Lonely.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25771
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:02 am

Warlock wrote:
We then dated for the next eight years and I put up with her cheating on me multiple times (early in the relationship) because I was in love (i.e. not rational). Eventually, things went south and she broke up with me, giving a bunch of bullshit reasons to me. We didn't end on good terms and hadn't spoken since.

I changed my paradigm and part of this was to be open and honest, so I started reaching out to people that I may have hurt or felt that I didn't treat well enough, to apologize. This girl was one of those people.


This doesn't make sense, one sentence belies the other.

How did you hurt or not treat her well.


Given the fact the girl was only 17 (? the age of consent) when you both launched into this romance and she stayed with you for eight years. Those eight years were part of her developmental process, in fact, her father should have discouraged her from a long term relationship at such a young age.

Then, how many years later, you are still at her for the reason WHY she left or it broke down.

She gives you her reasons, which you will not accept and you continue to badger her until she presents you with something more like the fact (only to you) of why she left.

You cheated her out of her girlhood, you should have left years ago.

She is now probably afraid you will expose the intimacy of those eight years on Facebook or in a book and her fears, I suspect are not ungrounded and she senses this.

I hope there is no element of revenge here, Warlock. Shudder
The man that walks his own road, walks alone

Old Norse Proverb
User avatar
A Shieldmaiden
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1874
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:13 am

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:29 am

Btw, for the analytical males, perhaps with lordship in mind and heart...

If you want to learn how to love in real terms, do the following intellectual exercises, with a little bit of real practical effort, just to ensure that your theorizing is on track:

    1) determine exactly what would be required BY YOU to ensure, with near zero doubt, that your car would continue high performance for at least 100 years.

    2) determine exactly what would be required BY YOU to ensure, with near zero doubt, that your single tomato plant will keep producing tomatoes for at least 100 years.

    3) determine exactly what would be required BY YOU to ensure, with near zero doubt, that your dog would live happily for at least 100 years.

    4) determine exactly what would be required BY YOU to ensure, with near zero doubt, that your wife would live happily for at least 100 years.

    5) determine exactly what would be required BY YOU to ensure, with near zero doubt, that your life would be happily for at least 200 years.

And if you can't figure any of that out, you might want to examine just how deserving of love you really are yourself.

But I'll give a hint to those 5 exercises:
They all have the same, fairly complex answer.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25771
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby Warlock » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:59 pm

A Shieldmaiden wrote:Warlock wrote:
We then dated for the next eight years and I put up with her cheating on me multiple times (early in the relationship) because I was in love (i.e. not rational). Eventually, things went south and she broke up with me, giving a bunch of bullshit reasons to me. We didn't end on good terms and hadn't spoken since.

I changed my paradigm and part of this was to be open and honest, so I started reaching out to people that I may have hurt or felt that I didn't treat well enough, to apologize. This girl was one of those people.


This doesn't make sense, one sentence belies the other.

How did you hurt or not treat her well.


Given the fact the girl was only 17 (? the age of consent) when you both launched into this romance and she stayed with you for eight years. Those eight years were part of her developmental process, in fact, her father should have discouraged her from a long term relationship at such a young age.

Then, how many years later, you are still at her for the reason WHY she left or it broke down.

She gives you her reasons, which you will not accept and you continue to badger her until she presents you with something more like the fact (only to you) of why she left.

You cheated her out of her girlhood, you should have left years ago.

She is now probably afraid you will expose the intimacy of those eight years on Facebook or in a book and her fears, I suspect are not ungrounded and she senses this.

I hope there is no element of revenge here, Warlock. Shudder


There was a qualifier you missed... Treat her as well as I feel that I should have. I was depressed for a noticeable amount of the relationship and therefore I didn't treat her as well as I believe I should have.

She was also 18, it was the summer before she started college, when we first got romantic. I didn't approach her this time around, her father encouraged her to call me... I hadn't asked about her or thought about her for quite a while.

We broke up a little under 9 years ago and yes I still had questions, because she wasn't decent enough to be honest with me. I'm currently reflecting on life, dealing with my experiences. This means that I'm trying to understand those experiences, so I can better understand myself.

She gave me a reason, just like she did before. I believe it to be false, just like before. She validated my prior belief by admitting that the original reasons were indeed "bullshit" according to her own words.

It's not the intimate details that she is afraid of, it's the fear of having to face her previous actions. She believes that her actions were wrong and therefore doesn't wish to be judged. She has been trying to hide from her conscience since before we broke up. She has learned to cope by denying and escaping.

If my intention was revenge or to be vindictive... I would already have what I want. She is a miserable person and has been for many years... This doesn't give me enjoyment, it makes me sad, I don't like seeing people suffer.

Ultimately, I'm going to do what my conscience tells me to do. At this point, it's telling me to be open and honest, to share my experiences, no matter how embarrassing, painful, hurtful, etc...

I'm tired of being manipulated and controlled by other people and their own personal issues that get projected onto me. It's time for me to be true to my nature and follow my conscience.
Warlock
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:37 am
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby CelineK » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:09 pm

what you say makes sense but, if one does not love one self, one will keep buming into lovers/partners that will teach us that, to love one self because reality is holographic.

what you say can only work out if all people involved in the relationship grasp this, so it works both ways equally. It is all about awareness. But loving the other first, if neglecting what I convey here, is just unworkable, will lead to emotional co-dependency.

Love of self is most important since it requires to know thyself so to speak. Sovereignty is key. It is impossible to have somebody doing the job for one A lack of self love impedes love's expression however.

look at the world, on a larger scale, helping nations has gone nowhere.


Leyla wrote:
CelineK wrote:thats because loving one self first is the most important.

Why?
Doesn't it work the other way around: Loving another person first an then loving oneself for being able to love, or for being a lover of that other person?
The Laws Of Light, Emotions And Sexuality. http://www.celinek.net The time has come in the history of man's journey from his material jungle to his spiritual mountain top when it is imperative that he must live more and more in the cosmic Light universe of knowing, and less in the electric wave universe of sensing -- Walter Russell.
=============================================================
A Money-Free Society Is Now Reality! The natural liberty of man is to be free from any superior power on earth and not to fall under the will or legislative authority of man but only have the law of nature (immutable principles) for his rule. Samuel Adams. -- http://www.earthcustodians.net
User avatar
CelineK
 
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:37 pm
Location: No Man's Land In A Money-Free Wold

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby Warlock » Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:17 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Maniacal Mongoose wrote:JSS,

I agree. Please elaborate on how to love proper.

"Proper" isn't quite the right word. "Real" is more precise.

The real way to actually accomplish love is to at least instinctively, if not cognitively as well, learn of:

    1) the true/real/actual need compendium of the one to be loved.
    2) the actual truth of how such needs can be best met in the real world.
    3) what means you might have to participate in such a direction and endeavor.

A simple minded example:
Someone has apparently committed a social crime that authority figures choose to punish by death. The real truth of the situation of Man is that simple punishment ("retribution"/"vindication"/"pay-back"), certainly punishment by death, doesn't serve the individual nor the society as a whole. Thus if you are in a jury situation wherein you get a vote (or other non-destructive means), you vote toward preventing the crime of capital punishment (assuming that you love either society or any individuals within.

So in this case:
1) The "Need Compendium" (for either the individual or the society) = to live
2) The "Real Situation" of the moment that allows for (1) = jury trial situation in a society
3) The "Real Means to Participate" toward the love = vote in favor of avoiding capital punishment.

In a more directly personal situation wherein a man loves a woman who doesn't feel the same:
1) = to feel joy in harmonizing with her surroundings.
2) = her limited perspective in a chaotic, somewhat harsh social, psychological, and medical environment.
3) = his ability to inspire her in a direction toward that greater harmony which might include:
    _a) feeling a love for him (who understands how to help her achieve her need compendium)
    _b) feeling a freedom to sense out a more probable resolve to her need compendium (perhaps a different suitor)
    _c) sensing a desire to change her situation in society (relocation, different job, whatever) toward something more favorable to her need compendium.
    _d) teach her of the cognitive understanding involved in achieving one's need compendium
    _e) cause her to emotionally understand her need compendium and how to achieve it
    _f) just leave her to the situation in which she was found until more capable to fulfill her need compendium
    _g) take it upon oneself to learn how to be loving before attempting to screw around with the lives and need compendium of others.
    .
    .

Oh, and did I mention the "Need Compendium"? It's as easy as "1, 2, 3". 8)


I suspect the OPer can understand this.


I get what you're attempting to say... especially point 3(g).

My intention isn't to screw with her, I was conscious enough to avoid doing so in our conversations. I'm simply processing things... just because I ask philosophical questions doesn't automatically translate into me acting on my thoughts.

Where I currently see things is... I must love myself first, which means being true to myself. Even if this may cause others discomfort, pain, damage, etc... By not being true to myself, I will only be inflicting these negatives onto my own psyche.

Actions have consequences and we must accept responsibilities for the things we do and/or have done, even if our intentions doesn't correspond to the results. She must deal with the consequences of her actions, just as I must deal with the consequences of being true to my nature (I.e. being open and honest about my experiences). If I attempt to protect her, I will not be completely open and honest.

I cannot control anyone but myself. Which is exactly what I plan to do, follow my personal code and let other people figure shit out for themselves. It's about time I be more selfish and love myself before worrying about others.
Warlock
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:37 am
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:14 am

Warlock wrote:Where I currently see things is... I must love myself first, which means being true to myself.

I would advise otherwise. Who wants a guy who is in love with himself (a narcissist)?

What you (and damn near every male on the planet) needs is a higher goal or purpose to which you are seriously devoted. That purpose is what you "love first". When and if a she comes along who can love you for being that man so devoted to that purpose, then she will love herself for being someone so devoted (aka "in love") to him and his purpose. That is what having a "wife" means, aka "helpmate".

In a philosophical sense, she who is devoted to he who is devoted is a wife, married in spirit.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25771
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Anyone want to analyze this situation?

Postby Warlock » Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:41 am

James S Saint wrote:
Warlock wrote:Where I currently see things is... I must love myself first, which means being true to myself.

I would advise otherwise. Who wants a guy who is in love with himself (a narcissist)?

What you (and damn near every male on the planet) needs is a higher goal or purpose to which you are seriously devoted. That purpose is what you "love first". When and if a she comes along who can love you for being that man so devoted to that purpose, then she will love herself for being someone so devoted (aka "in love") to him and his purpose. That is what having a "wife" means, aka "helpmate".

In a philosophical sense, she who is devoted to he who is devoted is a wife, married in spirit.


If you are not true to yourself, what can you offer to anyone besides lies. Loving yourself isn't necessarily narcissism and narcissism isn't necessarily loving yourself.

I want to love myself, because love means unconditional acceptance, respect, care, etc... If I can't do this for myself, how can I truly do it for others?

I have purpose in this world. I help people be the best they can be. I've impacted hundreds of people in the past 6 years, I have dozens of these people tell me as much, without solicitation. I didn't love myself during this period either, I just did what came natural to me... I know I can do more though, unfortunately it's very difficult when you're too busy hating yourself... Doing so because of all the conditioning, acculturation, indoctrination and unrealized expectations placed upon you.

Maybe I haven't been clear either, but I do not seek to get back with this woman. I've come to realize that I never actually loved her... I was in love with the concept of being in love and being loved back. I mean yes, I do love every human being, but I'm not in love with them, if that makes sense to you. My true nature is to want to help her, but it's no more than I want to help anyone else.

To illustrate what I'm speaking of, tomorrow I will be making a video in which I'm cutting my hair and beard (2 + years worth of growth) to help raise funds for a student that lost her father unexpectedly. Then I will be donating the hair to locks of love. That is my true nature and I do it because I love myself enough to follow my conscience. When I didn't love myself, I was depressed and apathetic to those around me, that's what I mean when I talk about loving myself... Not being a narcissist that only cares about themself.
Warlock
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:37 am
Location: New Hampshire

Next

Return to Psychology and Mind



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot]