I get what you’re attempting to say… especially point 3(g).
My intention isn’t to screw with her, I was conscious enough to avoid doing so in our conversations. I’m simply processing things… just because I ask philosophical questions doesn’t automatically translate into me acting on my thoughts.
Where I currently see things is… I must love myself first, which means being true to myself. Even if this may cause others discomfort, pain, damage, etc… By not being true to myself, I will only be inflicting these negatives onto my own psyche.
Actions have consequences and we must accept responsibilities for the things we do and/or have done, even if our intentions doesn’t correspond to the results. She must deal with the consequences of her actions, just as I must deal with the consequences of being true to my nature (I.e. being open and honest about my experiences). If I attempt to protect her, I will not be completely open and honest.
I cannot control anyone but myself. Which is exactly what I plan to do, follow my personal code and let other people figure shit out for themselves. It’s about time I be more selfish and love myself before worrying about others.
I would advise otherwise. Who wants a guy who is in love with himself (a narcissist)?
What you (and damn near every male on the planet) needs is a higher goal or purpose to which you are seriously devoted. That purpose is what you “love first”. When and if a she comes along who can love you for being that man so devoted to that purpose, then she will love herself for being someone so devoted (aka “in love”) to him and his purpose. That is what having a “wife” means, aka “helpmate”.
In a philosophical sense, she who is devoted to he who is devoted is a wife, married in spirit.
If you are not true to yourself, what can you offer to anyone besides lies. Loving yourself isn’t necessarily narcissism and narcissism isn’t necessarily loving yourself.
I want to love myself, because love means unconditional acceptance, respect, care, etc… If I can’t do this for myself, how can I truly do it for others?
I have purpose in this world. I help people be the best they can be. I’ve impacted hundreds of people in the past 6 years, I have dozens of these people tell me as much, without solicitation. I didn’t love myself during this period either, I just did what came natural to me… I know I can do more though, unfortunately it’s very difficult when you’re too busy hating yourself… Doing so because of all the conditioning, acculturation, indoctrination and unrealized expectations placed upon you.
Maybe I haven’t been clear either, but I do not seek to get back with this woman. I’ve come to realize that I never actually loved her… I was in love with the concept of being in love and being loved back. I mean yes, I do love every human being, but I’m not in love with them, if that makes sense to you. My true nature is to want to help her, but it’s no more than I want to help anyone else.
To illustrate what I’m speaking of, tomorrow I will be making a video in which I’m cutting my hair and beard (2 + years worth of growth) to help raise funds for a student that lost her father unexpectedly. Then I will be donating the hair to locks of love. That is my true nature and I do it because I love myself enough to follow my conscience. When I didn’t love myself, I was depressed and apathetic to those around me, that’s what I mean when I talk about loving myself… Not being a narcissist that only cares about themself.
That isn’t the kind of goal to which I was referring. And being “true to oneself” can mean several things (depending on who is saying it). Don’t deceive yourself, but then again, don’t make yourself your highest goal either.
But if that is what you have been convinced to do…
As long as you do not mean with reference to everything. Life IS change you know.
I don’t personally think that that spells out selfish ~~ it might be part of a particularly right way in which to love one’s self ~~unless another is thoughtlessly and callously harmed as a result of it. Sometimes selfish gains can backfire and the consequences are also harmful to ourselves.
Your true nature being…?
I’m not so sure that I agree with you there. It seems to be a "dog-eat-dog world often to me. … though we can say that particular individuals have evolved that way.
As for the first part, I completely understand that experience.
…and insofar as those who feel they don’t NEED it nor WANT it? Like your old girlfriend?
I understand this. Writing gives us clarity. Sharing stories helps us to realize that we are not alone, not the only ones who have had our personal experiences and they muddled through and transcended, or plowed through, however you wish to think of it. Good luck with your book.
Just remember with a little MORE money you can reach MORE people. Don’t sell yourself short.
I’m a firm believer, or at least i try to be lol, of seeing as many different perspective as possible.
You left out “emotional” growth, which is important.
I have found that the above is true. We only "know’ or “intuit” based on who we are in the moment, how we flow.
We’re a stubborn bunch. No one liked to have their “apple cart” so to speak, overturned. We’re sometimes uncomfortable with new information or we don’t like what we ‘see’ of ourselves.
…and yet I recall in one of your posts to someone you mentioning that when your book was written you would send her a copy.
You might simply let her know that you wrote it and ask if she might want to read it. What’s the worse which can happen if she says "No, don’t bother?
No, we’re not all malleable. Why, because we don’t realize that we can be. But isn’t it interesting and fun the work which we have to do on ourselves, the great explorations and discoveries about ourselves? We’re all works in progress ~~ mini universes.
I don’t know if I agree with that. Maybe we’re meant to miss “something”. It makes us strive more. Maybe I’m wrong.
I also don’t think that as human beings we’re “supposed lol to be” completely happy and content. For the same above reason.
Why do you prefer at these times to be alone?
I agree more or less with the second part. At the same time, some of us rather enjoy our aloneness and our own presence more than being with many others.
As for the first question, how about a harmony of both?
Yes, we’re like the icebergs. More, much more, is hidden “beneath”. We need to dive down and explore ourselves. It is ourselves who are the final frontier or again, like mini universes which need to be explored, peered into with the telescopic lenses of our intellects and emotions - along with great honesty and courage to confront ourselves, to know ourselves.
Sometimes we can become aware of things through reflection but you know this.
I think that we can, in a sense, look on our actions and words as accidents because we were not at the time paying close attention. This is why accidents occur. We leap before we look, we don’t question things before we move. We need to try to “make sense” of our actions, to go back in time to our origins, our roots, to find many answers. This is also what you’re doing I think.
I can’t recall his exact words, but Rumi said something to the effect of learning to live with our questions, our unanswered question. And at some moment, we will come to know the truth of them. This, I know, is a very difficult thing to do but I intuit that there is great wisdom in that. I don’t mean not wanting to have answers but there are some which we can’t know the answers to NOW.
Is it possible we kind of slide into these answers as a result of eventually learning more about ourselves and just relaxing with the questions. I think more comes to us in moments of relaxation than in moments of “holding on” and trying to squeeze out answers. After all, our psyches are not lemons, are they?
Are you sure that on some unconscious level, you did not say something to her which might make her believe you might want to hurt her? I’m not saying it’s true but think about it. We can all do things like that to manipulate and to get our own way.
True about the puppy. All situations are different. We live in the moment.
And yes, our so-called guilty consciences sometimes make us see something which isn’t there.
I think that the phrase “being true to myself” is a lot like the phrase loving myself. Would you agree with me if I say that acting on that - being true to myself - can cause unnecessary pain to others?
A guy might think that 'being true to himself" means beating his wife and kids because they don’t conform to what he thinks they “should” based on who he thinks and feels he is.
A rapist might be true to himself because he feels he has a right to rape based on his lust for power for feelings of insecurity.
I know Shakespeare wrote those words (I think) but do we ever stop to really consider the consequences to that "belief"system?
“Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves, like locked rooms and like books that are now written in a very foreign tongue. Do not now seek the answers, which cannot be given you because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answer.”
There is such beautiful wisdom in that …for me. Profound.
I really don’t think that we have much choice in the matter since the more we fight and struggle over certain issues, the more that Gordian Knot tightens around us.
That’s not to say that we can’t take a step back observe certain things for a little while, then release, relax, let go.
Then in some distant day…voila…an epiphany, a realization unfolds.
I’ll get back to you in a couple days on all of this… that’s a lot of effort to reply and I’m trying to focus on something else currently. I’m trying to process a bunch of things and while a distraction might be nice, I have to deal with my sister trying to manipulate me into not writing my story, because she hasn’t dealt with her own demons.
warlock, if you associate self-love with narcissism, ll you will get (or seek) is co-dependency.
The love of Self also implies a motion of self-forgiveness and objective Self Image . Most people in a romantic relationship do not achieve Self-Love but rather seek a confirmation of their own subjective reality. Love requires emotional self-sufficiency first. All the greatest spiritualists agree on that.
Humanitarian aid is a failure because of this. The judeo-chritian ethics, altruism, is not entirely correct.
If you don’t have a higher concern/priority outside of your self, you will have nothing left to do but focus on the possibilities and suspicions that you are not quite secure enough - just look at Secular USA.
“Most” are merely seeking to BE loved for the very reason stated above. They begin in a state of self concern and insecurity (aka “born in sin”) and until they devote to something more than themselves, that state only gets worse.
I don’t see life as change. It might have that capability, but realization of such isn’t a forgone conclusion. Then again, it depends on what context we’re discussing change in… literally or figuratively.
I do not view the world in terms of right and wrong or good and evil any longer. We all have preferences, some are widely shared (due to conditioning/acculturation/indoctrination) and others are not. I do not see a universal morality police enforcing these concepts, therefore, these concepts aren’t universal to me.
My true nature is that of the natural order. As a species, we have specific traits that are in our genetics. Things like curiosity, openness, honesty, empathy, compassion, etc… it’s only after we’ve been conditioned, acculturated and indoctrinated that we become different. We’re trained like domesticated animals, from the day we’re born. Some of this training is positive, but much of it goes counter to our instincts and this disconnection damages us as individuals. We are influenced, manipulated and controlled by these things; unable to be who we actually are. We develop coping mechanisms to deal with our damage, but we rarely ever let go or heal said damage. We become so invested in our perspective that we’re damn near incapable of seeing and/or admitting these concepts. Doing so would mean that our entire existence up until that point was a lie.
It’s observable through Scientific method. The reality that we currently inhibit is a “dog-eat-dog” setting, there’s a lot of competition out there, which results from how we’re conditioned. Many people want more than they require, because that’s what they’re trained to want. We’re obviously not robots, so we justify these views or we simply deny counter views, anything to keep our perspectives intact.
I’m not forcing my help on her. I came to the conclusion that it’s not my place. Additionally, I feel that protecting her in my writings also isn’t my place. We must accept responsibility for our actions. The trauma already exists in her, she will just have to finally face the consequences of it. I’ll be right next to her in dealing with the consequences of my actions. I plan to be intellectually honest and as objective as possible in my writing… no matter how painful, shameful, embarrassing, hurtful, etc… I have nothing to hide and I care more about how I judge myself than how others judge me.
My stance has changed, as new information has been contemplated. I won’t be contacting her ever again, in any manner. Ultimately, I realized that I never liked her as a person. This is why I “pushed” her, I wanted to see her become a “better” person. I was madly “in-love” with the concept of loving and being loved… things that I lacked from my childhood. She is not someone that I would like spending time with, because our ethos’s are basically opposite. That said, I love her, as I love everyone… I genuinely care about the well-being of others and for most of my life, I did this at the expense of caring for my own well-being… not any more though, I must love myself equally.
We are all capable of being shaped, realizing our capabilities or not, doesn’t change our ability to do so. In-fact, I would even go as far as stating that we’ve all already been shaped (by conditioning, acculturation and indoctrination) and our exploration of self is merely just us trying to find our way back to our natural state.
Philosophical differences here. Being fulfilled (i.e. content), doesn’t mean that you lose motivation, it actually gives you more motivation. You feel like you have purpose and everything makes sense with purpose, you feel a passion for what you do. I felt this way in the Army, at least until the girlfriend thing reared it’s ugly head and my emotional state went to hell.
I prefer to be alone when I want to contemplate stuff. I prefer company when I want to share ideas, thoughts and concepts.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. There are no accidents, only failures to be aware of whats going on around us. When you’re oblivious to your surroundings, you’ll probably inflict damage to those around you… whether we’re speaking about physically, emotionally or intellectually. We may not intend to do this, for a variety of reasonable and logical factors, but it doesn’t change the fact that we are responsible. I was always aware of my surroundings, unfortunately I was heavily damaged, so I didn’t always make the optimal choices. I knew when I was being hurtful, vindictive, mean, uncaring, etc… all my baggage just prevented me from following my conscience.
I definitely said some threatening things when we broke up, never physical threats though. For example, I told her that I would start a foundation for mistreated people and hire people to protest her… stupid shit like that, said during the irrational rage manifesting from my fight response kicking in. This was also 9 years ago and I never did anything to her in that span (let alone even contacted her in anyway). If I had wanted to hurt her, it would have happened a long time ago. I have very dangerous capabilities, due to my training and life experiences. I was an Infantryman, I played college football, was an amateur mixed martial artist, have 20 years of martial arts training and grew up gang-affiliated in Los Angeles… I’m easily capable of harming a female programmer/WoW player if that was my desire.
You could say that, but you don’t even need the “being true to myself”, just say belief. We all have beliefs, some positive, some negative. Some beliefs cause the murder of millions and some help millions… yet still, some have both positive and negative results. We ultimately do what makes the most sense to our perspective. I’m trying to return to the person I was before all the conditioning, acculturation, indoctrination, etc… changed me into something I wasn’t. I know this because there has always been a conflict in me, my conscience vs my conditioning. I was simply too afraid of the consequences of following my conscience, a coward who wanted to fit in more than be honest and open with himself and others. To illustrate, I was on a heavily delayed plane about 6 months ago. Some people had like 15 minutes to catch a connecting flight across the airport or be stuck there for a day. So when people were getting off the plane, this guy started to push this person in front of him… I was nearby by and I’m a very large and imposing presence, so a couple of people looked to me for help. I wanted to intervene, but I was too scared to act. I didn’t want to have to go through all the possible consequences of butting in, especially in an airport. My conditioning got the better of my conscience yet again and I was too much of a bitch to be true to myself.
You might ~ or might not ~~ take the time to read this in whatever spare time you have. It may be helpful.
It’s difficult for us to “deal” with something if we don’t know how to go about it.
It’s kind of like taking a journey. If we don’t know our way and/or keep getting lost, what do we do? We ask for directions or get a map.
If something doesn’t work, try a different strategy.
I myself have found that in "trying to ‘deal’ with something all we do in the long run is wind up in a black hole.
Literally. You, as a living organism, have been changing from the moment you were conceived.
You’ve been changing as you’ve been growing in different ways - intellectually, emotionally/spiritually, physically. You may flow and ebb in ways but you are still changing.
What about history, what about human evolution.?What about the cycles of nature, et cetera?
How can you not see Life and/or your life as change. Are you nothing but stagnant waters?
But you do see some actions as more right and some as more wrong, don’t you?
True, there are a lot of gray areas sometimes but we do have to live by some kind of a personal code, don’t you think?
Personal preferences? But we’re not speaking of art or music or fashion here. We’re speaking of human action and consequences.
Speaking for myself, I wouldn’t think of it as so much of a lie. It’s what we were able to see at the time, considering what we had to work with. As we begin to see things, we begin to change our patterns, our way of thinking and our behavior. I’m not saying that we go easy on ourselves but we do have to, in a sense, knowing that we are not the same person that we were before but we’re still CHANGING and moving forward. We might even have to forgive ourselves in a sense for our very slow movement ~~ after all, we are a process.
I wouldn’t say that we “rarely ever let go or heal said damage”. I don’t know what it is within us that causes some of us to change easier and care to heal ourselves and others not to. But it’s there and perhaps it’s also having a mentor, having someone in your life, come into your life, as I have at times, to show me a part of myself which I didn’t know existed, which I denied, because we just cannot see what others see in us. I think that healing can only begin when we are affirmed, accepted and shown who we are.
Well,I was only giving one side to it. There is another side where there are good people, great people, who do strive to make a better world, who do care about other human beings, awesome creatures and the environment, et cetera.
It is times like this that I am happy to be a human being.
Are we “trained” to want more? More like a lack of training, of discipline, of seeing/awareness.
We’re afraid we’re not going to get what we think we deserve,what we think we have coming to us.
We can also blame the parents for not teaching a sense of values, of what IS valuable and what is not, along with the media who teach us that we MUST have this and that in order to survive and be happy.
No, it isn’t so much that it is your place but can you do it in a way which causes less trauma than more trauma? Yes, we must accept responsibility for our actions. Is there a way in which you can do this without revealing who she is - who they are?
Sometimes it’s a good thing to think ahead to what some of the consequences might be. We have to be like really good chess players. After all, this book of yours is going to be about helping others who may have shared your experiences - rather than about outing certain people, revealing them.
Never say never. lol We’re like yo-yos at times. We have to be aware of this. Emotions sometimes gets in the way of good sense and consciousness.
This seems to be the case with many people. The attachment, the “in-love” is there but the true liking often is not.
This is also something we do… rather than doing the work on ourselves which needs to be done.
Many of us are guilty of that. Mis-direction.
That’s more a natural hunger from childhood when we didn’t have the right loving kind of caretakers.
I’m not sure it could be any other way – up until a certain point when we begin to realize the reality of it all.
For example?
What to you is our natural state?
I think that I can agree with this. Having a purpose does add to our optimal living and happiness.
Why do you think you felt this way in the Army? What was it about the Army? since not everyone feels that way.
What about when it comes to just "BEING’ in the moment? without thought? Can you enjoy simple stillness, no movement, just being?
Well, we will disagree on this. I see the above as being an accident for the very reasons you mention.
Consider just how accidents occur? The only reason they appear to be pre-determined or meant to happen is because WE OURSELVES CAUSE THEM and refuse to “see” this as I said for your reasons above.
Sometimes it isn’t such a good thing to think of ourselves or others as being damaged. Better to focus on the positive side and good qualities of a person. If you’re mentoring someone, calling them damaged will make them feel damaged instead of making them feel that they can be stronger, more whole.
There was a time when I felt the same way about myself but it did nothing for my self-esteem and the right kind of self love. We victimize ourselves when we think of ourselves in terms of being damaged or give others permission to make us see ourselves in that way.
We aren’t things. We aren’t tables and chairs or things that can be damaged. That’s just the way I look at it.
It’s a good thing to be aware of just what we are capable of.
But could you harm a gristly bear?
I’m still not so sure you can return to that person. Wasn’t that the person who brought you on the journey into the C/A/I, etc?
Which might have just made matters far worse.
Maybe it wasn’t so much fear but who knows. What’s the saying ~~ discretion is the better part of valor.
See, right hear you say it - “be true to myself”. If you had “joined” in the so-called battle, there might have been consequences and repercussions.
So, being “true to one’s self” is not necessarily the practical way to be…at least not in this case it might not have been.
I think that “consciousness” “awareness” needs to be a part of "conscience.
“Bitch” - care to elaborate on that?!
Take all the time you need to respond to this - when we give space, we get space.
I learn as I write.
One can find change in anything. It all depends on what way you perceive it… physical state, time, location, etc…
That said, in the context of intellect, it can very well cease growing. No different than when a muscle plateaus or atrophies, without challenge the intellect will not grow and could very easily degenerate from misuse and/or lack of use.
I struggle to find intellectual challenge, my intelligence potential is fairly uncommon and due to reality being the way it is, those who seek intellectual growth are a rarity to begin with… further limiting the potential pool.
No, I do not view some things as more right or more wrong. I have preferences, things that I would prefer to happen or not happen. For instance, I would prefer someone not steal if it affects me in some way, but I do not demonize or condemn someone for stealing. Theft isn’t black and white, some people do it for selfish reasons, others do it out of desperation. Theft doesn’t make someone an evil person, just as not stealing doesn’t make someone a good person.
My personal code is to be true to my nature. Sometimes conflicts arise, at which point I refer to my preferences to tip the scale one way or the other. For instance, my nature is to be open, honest, curious, empathetic and compassionate (among other things). Thus my desire to be open and honest is in conflict with my desire to be empathetic and compassionate, regarding telling my story. My preference is to protect myself (i.e. by not suppressing these things and being untrue to who I am), as opposed to protecting someone else (i.e. attempting to prevent pain by hiding them from the responsibility of their actions).
You are not like the vast majority, you see things neutrally. You do not take a hard stance on anything, because you understand that we do not know as much as we think we know. Most people form a belief and that’s that, you cannot change their mind, because they’re not open to change. These people would see their lives as a lie, because everything they ever knew or did was based on a fallacy.
You’re applying your perspective to most of what I’m saying, which is fine, but my statements aren’t directed at the type of person you are… which is why it doesn’t make sense to you. Try placing yourself into another perspective, empty yourself from all your notions and views, imagine what it would be like to see the world differently. Look at how people are and attempt to reverse engineer the why, through logic and reason alone (disassociate the emotions and biases). Find the various possibilities behind what could lead to the result and explore each to understand all possible paths. Ultimately, you can narrow things down to a couple of core emotions… you may not know the exact cause of an issue, but you at least now understand the underlying emotion behind it.
This is what I do all day, every day. It’s why I excel at working with emotionally and behaviorally disabled high school students. I have no degrees and no formal education in Psychology, but I’ve been doing this since my earliest memories. Studying others to try to make sense of the world around me… I was too disconnected from my emotions until recently though, I had suppressed them for so long that I had no passion for anything. I was simply going through the motions of existing and not living life. I went on a bit of a roller-coaster ride when I delved into my past, a lot of emotions that I hadn’t felt in a long time overwhelmed me somewhat (hence this thread), as I was trying to process it all.
Again, I’m speaking in generalities. I’m not saying that my views applies to all, equally. Overall though, it is what I perceive from the masses as a whole.
Not if I want to be open and honest, no. I’m not going to slander/libel her, I’m going to tell things from my perspective… my intention isn’t to hurt her, it’s to tell my story, as openly and honestly as I can… to be true the person I see myself as. Ghost-writing or changing people to spare them from themselves, makes it a tale, not an autobiography. I plan to put my stamp on this work, take responsibility for all of my own questionable actions as well… by being deceptive, regardless of the reason, takes away from the authenticity and my connection to it.
I concur.
Actually, I completely disarmed her when we met. I saw her completely vulnerable and that was who I fell in love with initially. About a week into our romance is when she changed to a completely different person. We were in line for a ride at Six Flags, we were gazing into each others eyes and I was gently stroking her face. A pair of women next to us commented “awww… you guys are in love”… immediately, at hearing this, she tensed up and became someone else. I didn’t see that entity ever again, by the time I was able to see her again, she had already cheated on me three times while I was deployed to Bosnia for 8 months.
This had a devasting affect on me, but I had a lot of conviction in my ideals at the time, I believed that she could become that person I first met again and I was willing to sacrifice my own emotional well-being to help her become a better person… reflecting back now, I see the error of having ideologies that are disconnected from reality. Those expectations only hurt me in the long run, it was only when I accepted reality (as it currently exists rather than how I want it to be), that I was able to let go of all the negative shit eating away at me. I’ve come to realize that people are who they currently are and I need to accept this as truth… can people change, sure why not, but placing expectations on them only leads to negativity in myself.
To me, the concept of love, is unconditional. So if you love someone, you do not place conditions on your feelings. You can love someone and not agree with their actions… I care about and respect people, regardless of what they do. For example, if my brother murdered someone, I would still love him. I wouldn’t agree with his actions, but it wouldn’t change the fact that I care for and respect him as a person. People are more than just a single action, his murder of another wouldn’t change his impact on my life (both positive and negative things). I understand that people are damaged and that damage manifests in sometimes horrific ways, it doesn’t make them any less of a human-being, who is worthy of love.
The way we were born, before the cause and effect of nurture shaped us to be who we currently are.
I felt that way in the Army, because I was balanced. Physically, emotionally, socially and intellectually challenged. My ideology was in alignment with reality, because my reality was influenced to be in alignment with my ideology. The reason for this was because of my previous experiences in life were at odds with my ideology. I had a strong moral compass and admired certain characteristics, these things that the Military is founded on. Eventually, the double standards and mere lip-service to these ideals started to manifest and it disenfranchised me, but for a year or two I was very content (for the first time in my life).
Not really, no. The closest I come to this is when I hyper-focus on a single task, which I do a fair amount of the time. At these times, nothing exists except the task, I become one with it. This is why I enjoy art, it’s zen-like for me… nothing exists except for the art.
I was nurtured into the person I am, I was trained to be this way. I can retrain myself to be different, the first step of the process is to realize that you’ve been trained. Can a domesticated dog survive in the wild? Some can and some do. If an animal can retrain itself without possessing consciousness, I like my odds.
This is merely our conditioning speaking. The way we’ve been trained, via reward and punishment. Practicality is how we rationalize and justify it. In this case, my fear of punishment and my practicality prevented me from acting in accordance with my nature… I rationalized and justified away my empathy and compassion for another human-being. This type of mentality is why our Society is getting more and more negative towards one another. We rationalize and justify away our empathy and compassion, when it’s not in our self-interest.
Sometimes you don’t even have to look for it. You will notice it in changing patterns of behavior - and it may surprise us.
What do you mean by “reality being the way it is”?
How can you NOT evaluate some things as being more positive and others as more negative where consequences are concerned?
When you speak of “preferences” it seems to me that you are allowing things to happen as they will without trying to effect them or prevent them if they are negatives. Is this true?
You’re absolutely right about this. You have to evaluate the situation.
Look at poor Fantine in Les Mis - some would see her for nothing but a prostitute, despite her reasons. As Freddie said “Love is beyond good and evil”. Just thought I’d throw that in. lol It came to me as I read what you wrote.
Of course, this doesn’t mean that I advocate for prostitution or theft ~ et cetera.
Your preferences might appear to have you “hogtied”.
Do you reflect on how you might come to harmonize your preferences with those of others? In other word, to do as little harm as possible?
I’m not judging you - at least I hope I’m not.
Sometimes I ask myself that question. Am I judging the person or evaluating the action or perspective? It isn’t always easy for me to “see” or “feel” the distinction. I may be doing both.
Oh, I am quite sure that there are at least a few people in here who might disagree with you. lol I can’t always see things neutrally. Some things are too close to me, my feelings about them pawn my thinking although it’s also my thoughts about certain things which bring on these feelings. Despite the fact that I realize that most things are not black and white, and I can see those grays areas, sometimes I choose not to see them in light of things which have happened to people.
I have been called a horrible person and a vile piece of “S” in here. We all have our own subjective thinking and sometimes it is based on biases and a lack of consciousness. But I can be a fierce mean dragon when I want to be.
Well, that’s true but I’m not speaking about beliefs. I’m speaking of harsh realities which I find it difficult to back down from. It may seem dogmatic, but I intuit that there are some things which one must never back down from but maybe that too is a belief. Maybe not. Maybe in my case it is just a matter of not wanting to change. Self-reflection is not an easy thing.
Sometimes people will involve their selves in the lives of others where something is merely a a choice of “living and let live”. Sometimes we are a bored/boring bunch.
But I may be that type of person. You haven’t even seen a little chip on the tip of the iceberg which I am.
Give me an example.
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I have also found that studying and exploring our own selves help us to understand others. This is why the mandate to “know thyself” is imperative. But it’s a process and we have to learn to “give in” and see ourselves through them. That’s not easy, at least not for me.
But didn’t suppressing your emotions make you feel very angry?
If all you did was think, think, think, doesn’t everything else get backed up or blocked in/repressed?
I’m not saying to just let it rip, to become a volcano.
But anyway you help the kids. There’s passion and purpose there so you could not have been so disconnected from your emotions. And in order to help emotionally disturbed children, you have to have an experience of emotions, both the positive and negative within yourself. You can’t just damn them up.
I’m speaking of your sister. Are you? Or are you speaking of your ex and all of your family?
I can see your point. But most of what I see here is a fine boundary line that you might cross over. But that’s up to you to take or not. i can understand how difficult it might be to tell your story with integrity without outing certain people. I suppose it also comes down to just what will be revealed in the final analysis about someone. We have a right to reveal what we want about ourselves but about others…
I’m not so sure what our "rights’ are about this. Just as there is freedom of speech, some take that word “freedom” to mean total disregard for others and total unrestraint. We just have to think hard (or not lol) to see if our intentions are pure though they can never be completely pure.
What you probably fell in love with was the vulnerable part of yourself which you could not see nor accept but was there.
How long did you know her before going to Bosnia?
What entity are you speaking of? The one who was frightened by love or the one which she was before the women made the comment?
What do you mean by “better” person? Someone living up to YOUR expectations of what she “should” be? But that might not have been HER.
It’s possible that neither of you knew the other much at all. Maybe you just fell in love with what you each needed in the other. It happens all the time.
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And what IS that current reality with reference to her?
Believe it or not, when we can see what’s real with regards to something or someone, it is a very freeing thing in the long run. We may fight it a bit or a lot but it’s freeing and it frees our spirit not only our minds. But again, it’s a process. I love that terminology.
True…much inner conflict there too.
Is there a difference between “love” and “feelings”? I’m saying if there is of isn’t. I’m just asking what you think.
Can we even actually place conditions on our feelings? If we do that, aren’t we suppressing them? Then they can’t flow naturally, within reason that is. Or am I wrong here?
We differ there. I can’t always continue to respect someone who goes against the grain of certain behaviors. Maybe I’m just weak that way. Maybe I’m a harsh taskmaster.
That’s not the same as treating them with “disrespect”. But what I “felt” before goes out the window. Maybe I don’t know how to love.
I can see still having the love but the respect? Unless by respect you mean to take another look and to see the person as they truly are. I think that’s what the word actually means. Re spect.
I understand that first part. There is much to us human beings.
I’m still having a problem with that word damaged though I do understand what you mean by it, I guess.
Maybe it was just about some change occurring in you or that you just hadn’t been paying attention before. Was it the army which changed?
That’s being in the zone - mindfulness.
But how are you going to find your self back to your so-called natural state if you continue on with simply “thinking”? Well, maybe I’m wrong.
Maybe more a lack of “nurturing” than actual nurturing.
If you realize that you have been “trained”, then why would you think in terms of “retraining” yourself?
So, do you consider yourself to be an animal - an unhuman animal?
If you’re going to attempt to “retrain” yourself as you say without “consciousness” I don’t see you getting anywhere. You need to “see” and to “understand” as you go through the process.
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Pavlov is dead.
Unless I misunderstand you here, is there anything wrong with being practical?
There is wisdom within that - not necessarily rationalization and justification.
For example, give me a scenario here.
I had a thought. Perhaps part of doing away with your pre-conditioning might be to do away with your username “warlock”. Just a thought. But it’s a nice username and what it creates within you might just serve your purpose at times - but not all of the time. But I may be wrong.
It doesn’t seem to be in harmony with your wanting to go back to your true nature, before all of the conditioning, et cetera…everything tied in with what made you You.
The word “bubbles” came to me but I somehow don’t think that’s you either. lol
Bubbles are just really carefree and ascend into the ether. But you might think “bubbles” at times.
You can perceive things without actually looking for it. Change is based on perspective… how we observe and how we quantify things. This is why, we as people, create standards and practices. Things such as language, laws, etc… we’re conditioned, acculturated and indoctrinated from birth to share this unifying perspective. If you fail to be assimilated, you’re punished for being divergent.
I mean that in-general, people are conditioned/accultured/indoctrinated to be concerned with the mundane. As a result, my existence is a lonely one… not because I lack social interaction, but because the majority of my interactions are nothing more than “small talk” and the like… very few people are comfortable discussing more meaningful concepts/ideas, even fewer openmindedly.
Good/Evil, Right/Wrong, Positive/Negative… are all biased and subjective. We all have preferences, which you can categorize in such ways, but there’s no universal morality. I have my own personal ideologies (i.e. preferences), which I attempt to live in accordance with. For instance, if I feel my life threatened, I will have no issue taking a life if I have to (just as we see in Nature). I will live and let live, until it directly affects my ability to live. I will never choose to impose my ideologies on others, like we’re prone to do in Society, as a manner to validate my beliefs.
Not evaluate, but accept. Evaluation leads to rationalization and justification, acceptance leads to freedom. For instance, if you truly accept Fantine, you do not view her as a prostitute… you view her as Fantine… regardless of all the biases we have about her actions.
Compromise only means both sides suffer, instead of one. It is an unnatural concept, animals don’t compromise. There is a conflict between my ex and I, if there’s a compromise, we both suffer for it. The stronger specimen will take it’s place in the heirarchy of the species… whom that might be is yet to be determined. If a weaker bear challenges a stronger bear for a superior fishing spot, there are consequences for such an action, the bears do not compromise. I will not shoulder the injuries I’ve endured any longer, because of compromise, this means being true to my Nature… if she cannot handle the consequences of her actions, she shouldn’t have done said actions. And no, I don’t plan to respond with violence, I intend to simply share my story as I perceived it. This will likely inflict pain and suffering on her (others might be influenced by my words to judge her for who she actually is, as opposed to the persona she presents to the world), but I cannot be held accountable for her actions. I can only be held responsible for my own actions, which I’m willing to do, since I’ve been taking responsibility for others my entire life.
It’s my responsibility that my sister and cousin molested me when I was 6, it’s my responsibility that my mother and oldest brother used to beat me for most of my childhood, it’s my responsibility that some teacher put a megaphone next to my ear when I was 6 and traumatized me in front of the entire class, it’s my responsibility that I left myself emotionally vulnerable to my ex and she took it as an invitation to cut me to pieces for nine years (which lasted as long as it did, because the cycle of abuse was normalized to me as a result of my childhood)… I accept what happened and I understand that those who abused me, were abused themselves… but fuck them, because they refuse to take any responsibility at all. I’m the “bad” guy because I refuse to merely internalize it and let it eat away at me like they choose to do. I should instead seek to distract myself from all of it, as I did my entire life, even though that only made me depressed and apathetic. I’m not allowed to live, the way I want to live, because it’s considered “wrong” to want to confront my demons. I even take responsibility for my own actions, which is why I reached out to the people that I hurt and apologized for my actions, offering whatever was in my power to make it “right” by them… even to those that hurt me.
You misunderstand me. The fact that you’re asking questions and willing to have a back/forth, shows open-mindedness (i.e. a willingness to adapt). This is an uncommon characteristic, at least from my anecdotal experiences. We’re not perfect and sometimes emotions get the better of us, for instance, this thread started as a result of emotions getting the better of me. Disagreeing with a poorly thought-out argument, isn’t taking a hard stance… denying or being stubborn in the face of evidence/reason/logic is a hard stance.
It’s all beliefs IMHO. We all have them, but some of us are fluid in the process and most are stiff. I’m fluid because I realize that I do not know as much as I would like to think I know, therefore, new information is contemplated and my beliefs are adjusted accordingly. Many, for various reasons, don’t reflect on beliefs after they’re formed.
Don’t let ego get in your way here. Psychology isn’t as complex as some make it out to be or maybe I’m gifted in this area… I can tell a lot about people based on very little, not usually particulars, but generalities for sure. I’m not trying to encapsulate the entirity of your being, based on a superficial amount of information, but I have already figured out a lot about your thought-process from these short exchanges. I may not know the causes behind the effects, but I know psychology well enough to glean out certain patterns and based on those patterns I can “ballpark” things well enough.
See above.
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Agreed, it’s not easy. It took me almost 40 years to finally figure it out and it’s going to take years to recondition myself to be the way I desire to be.
Anger was before apathy. I got to a point where it was either let my anger manifest in potentially terrible ways or to simply stop caring. Actually, the reason I’m good at what I do, is because I suppress my emotions. I have empirical experiences in such matters, so I can understand and empathize, but if I let my emotions interfere… I would be highly unstable, just like the students… it’s my stability and my understanding that makes them feel comfortable around me and respect me enough to do what I ask.
I’m speaking of everyone who was involved in my life.
I’m protected under the 1st ammendment. They have to prove that my writing is false, I don’t have to prove that it’s true, if they seek to pursue libel… but a disclaimer will legally protect me, in any event. Your interactions with others, outside of specific circumstances, has no expectations of privacy… to illustrate, if I rape someone, does the victim not have the legal right to reveal my action? (i.e. the right to reveal what we want about ourselves vs what we reveal about others)… can the victim only reveal that they were raped, but not who did it? Actions have consequences… I may not have legal or civil recourses, but I do have the freedom to honestly tell my story.
I don’t have total disregard for those who abused me, but where does my personal regard stand vs my regard for them? At some point, a decision must be made… do I hold more regard for myself or do I hold more regard for them? They chose to regard themselves more than they regarded me, when they abused me and still they chose to not take responsibility for it. I at least am willing to accept my responsibility, even if it means being estranged from my family.
It’s a possibility as I was vulnerable at the time, but based on all the information, I would disagree. I witnessed the exact moment that her defenses came up, so logically speaking, lowered defenses means vulnerability.
I met her 3 years before Bosnia, but I didn’t really get to know her until a month before I left (I spent about 10 days with her on leave, then 2 weeks back in Texas before going to Bosnia). I specifically told her that if she wasn’t into me or found someone else, just to let me know… cheating on deployed soldiers is very common and I knew this, which is why I made it very clear to her that I would have no hard feelings if she couldn’t handle the situation, just to give me the courtesy of a heads up.
The person she was without the defenses up (i.e. before the women made the comment).
Yes, I said as much in that same quote. It obviously isn’t her, which I’ve come to realize and accept now.
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The current reality, with reference to her, is that she is heavily damaged and not the kind of person that I want to associate with. I feel sad for her, she is a miserable person from what I could analyze in our recent conversations. She works all the time, escapes in World of Warcraft, hasn’t had a meaningful relationship since, only surrounds herself with people who do not challenge her, she seeks to escape her past by disaccosiating from it and displayed emotional outbursts when confronted by something that supposedly doesn’t affect her or have power over her any more (which is complete hypocrisy), etc… I was fighting it for a bit, but I have come to accept it. The process is on-going and part of the process for me is to write my story.
Love is a feeling, it’s a part of our biology, used to form strong bonds. I do see a difference between love and being “in love” though, being “in love” is a much stronger chemical mix, to aid the reproduction process. Love on the other hand, is something that we feel towards others in our species… like animals that are social, why don’t they kill one another for food or safety? I mean, some do, but it’s purpose is based in biology… like when animals kill the young of other males to put the female into heat, so that he can spread his own seed. Unfortunately, our Nurture has manipulated our Nature in this regard. We have created a lot of conflict in ourselves over it… leading to a lot of dysfunction and mental illness.
This is your Nurture speaking. We all know how to love (besides the few cases of mutation), it’s in our DNA. It’s our conditioning that influences us to rationalize/justify our feelings towards others. If you see a person suffering, do you not feel empathy and compassion? What about if you find out later that they were a pedophile? One is Nature, the other is Nurture.
No, I understand that we’re all imperfect. We’re not defined by a single action, we’re defined by all of them combined. I may not respect that he murdered someone, but I would still respect other things that he did… respecting aspects of someone is still respecting the person, it doesn’t have to be absolute… although a lack of respect must be a complete absence of respect.
Why do you have a problem with the term “damaged”? Imagine a new TV, over the years of use it becomes worn, but eventually from misuse it develops a defect (i.e. becomes damaged, not inoperable)… apply the same logic to a person… you’re born new, over the years of responsible use you become worn, someone/something mistreats you and you develop a defect as a result (i.e. become damaged). That defect might be something like being emotionally hurt and it forces you to develop defenses, which as a result prevents you from treating the next person the same way.
It was a change in my Army experience, not myself. I went from basic training into a regular unit, two different environments, which made those issues more glaring and they began to affect me directly.
Thought is Natural. There’s nothing wrong with it, unless it’s dysfunctional. It’s about maintaining balance, in all aspects of life. Being physically fulfilled, being mentally fulfilled, being spiritually fulfilled… if one of those is out of balance with the rest, it’s dysfunctional. You must make time for each aspect… thinking all the time, is just as dysfunctional as working all the time… meditating all the time, is just as dysfunctional as thinking all the time.
To a degree… nurtured enough to be unhappy, not nurtured enough to fit into my environment blissfully ignorant. I’m able to see both the beginning and the finish, I’d rather go back to the beginning than attempt to reach the end… I’m too aware of what we are to be content with what we become. I talk about retraining, because we’re speaking about states of being… if you take a domesticated dog and toss it back in the wild, it will have to adapt to the new environment (i.e. retrain itself to the new lifestyle). No different than a muscle, if you train your muscles to sit behind a desk all day and type, it will require retraining to go out and bench press 500 lbs.
We’re similar to animals, but we possess consciousness. My point was that an animal can retrain itself while lacking consciousness, meaning that with consciousness (i.e. a human), I should be able to accomplish such a feat easier.
Is there? You keep asking me about right/wrong, I don’t think in such terms any longer. Can practicality be harmful? Absolutely. Can practicality be beneficial? Absolutely. Wisdom is the ability to judge such things… if you’re using practicality to justify/rationalize things, it’s probably more harmful than beneficial.
Why would I change my username? It is a part of me, just as is the harmful and beneficial experiences I’ve had. I don’t need to run away from those things, because I don’t need to run away from myself. I’m content in myself, I’m content in my past.
Yes of course. We can also perceive things without understanding.
Some things we perceive subliminally. This is why investigating our dreams can be important.
Then it goes on to putting that into action. Well, seeing is sometimes enough to change as long as there is clarity.
Perhaps but don’t you think that that would depend on the individual person him/her-self? Like they say, not everyone can be hypnotized to do something.
I understand what you’re saying and I think that most here would agree with you. Most people are satisfied with the hype which goes on on facebook for instance. I think that one of the things which can distill or eradicate loneliness is real intimate (non-sexual) conversations. Loneliness comes about I think when a person is not able to be open and to give their self at their core, down deep where they "live’ in a manner of speaking. Of course, we have to be careful about how and to whom we give ourselves.
Well, I can agree with you up to a point but don’t you think that there are instances where there is white and there is black only?
Do you recognize the morality and ethics of doing no deliberate harm insomuch as you can? I’m just wondering and when I wonder, I don’t know - I’m not sure. There’s not a whole lot that I am sure about. But as I said, i can agree with this up to a point.
Why is there no universal morality, I wonder?
Is it because there are people who’s minds are totally unethical and amoral? Because there are some minds which are totally warped?
I suppose that it is also because we all perceive things differently, do not have the ability to “think things out” and to follow them to a natural logical and reasonable conclusion, we all have those blind spots, we are biased where we ourselves are concerned, basically we’re weak and fallible.
I suppose that I do at times try to “influence” others with my perspectives. The reality is that this is why we are in a philosophy forum, is it not? To discuss, to bring about a meeting of the minds. I hope that I don’t manipulate. How to know the difference…
If you are speaking here of unconditional acceptance of something, of everything, then I don’t agree with you. I personally feel that things need first to be evaluated, to be judged (not the act, but the situation itself). I have to first understand something, to see it in as much totality as i can before i can accept it or not. Perhaps that is wrong but…
I don’t think that ALL evaluation leads to rationalization and justification. It would depend on the individual and his/her mind, don’t you think? From my point of view, lack of evaluation can lead to those things.
How are you using the word “view” here? I am still capable of seeing a prostitute on 42nd street as a prostitute but at the same time will not judge her since i don’t know where she’s been and how she’s gotten here but the reality is that that is what we call women or men who sell their bodies and souls for money.
But then again, in truth, we all prostitute ourselves in one way or the other, for something.
I don’t agree with that, Warlock. That I think would only be the case if the one felt in terms of actually “giving in” when not wanting to - instead of there being a harmony or a meeting of the minds in some way. There can be a true compromise but both sides have to be willing to sacrifice something in order to gain something.
Are we bears, Warlock? Can bears reason and see the beauty and intelligence of giving up something in order to have something more? Can they measure cost and benefit? Perhaps, Warlock, you do not like to share your fishing spot.
Well, only you can determine what you might actually “gain” through compromise. I’m not even sure in this case what that would entail. Insofar as what I inserted in color, take a minute to re-read what you wrote. Unfortunately, most of us don’t have that kind of insight to be able to see all of the possibilities and results of our actions beforehand. But I am certainly finding out how important it is to see the ways in which what we say and what we do beforehand can affect/effect others and ourselves.
We don’t normally live our lives putting the cart before the horse, do we?
Are our perceptions always correct ones, Warlock? You know, there was probably a great psychological reason why Christ when dying on the cross (I’m agnostic lol) said: “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do?” This doesn’t necessarily mean that we forgive but we can try to understand. We can’t usually know a person at his/her core and what caused them to become who they are? We are such a mishmash of our personal histories and victims(?) of our own psyches.
Anyway, what happened to what you said a ways back about not evaluating but simply accepting people as they are? I’m just asking.
Unless you were being ironic here, no, that was not your responsibility. You were a child. How are you now helping and loving that inner child?
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Yes, it’s like a vicious cycle…repeated patterns. But when we begin to see why we have been the way we are, it actually does become our responsibility to change - I mean, we can’t continue to blame others if we are honest with ourselves and want to change.
We have to confront our demons. It’s a process though. Some of them we aren’t even aware of having.
It’s not an easy thing either I don’t think to truly apologize for having hurt others or maybe I’m just not that humble but in the long run it can help the person their self than even the one that person is apologizing too, if that made sense.
Hmmm, I’m not so sure that it is that uncommon. Perhaps it just depends on the individuals you meet. That might just be what you said - what it comes down to.
What i am actually trying to do in here along with you is brainstorm. I think it’s helpful when we can have as many different perspectives as possible - it leads to more clarity and understanding if we can remain open. I have found that often my perceptions have not been quite on the mark, to say the least. So as long as you want to discuss, I’m willing to.
Perhaps it’s because we feel we’ve found one that we can be comfortable with.
I think it’s very interesting and informative to notice how often our beliefs do change. If we can “see” this, we can remain fluid as you say - like a river.
You call that ego? Well, I suppose it could be from opposite ends of the pole.
If you take the individual’s human psyche out of the equation, then you might say that…but…
Why do you say that are gifted maybe in that area?
I think that many in here have figured out a lot about my thought processes lol. I can’t be sure if that is humility or ego.Ego can be "negative’ too.
When it comes to psychology, it IS important to know the causes behind the effects at least that’s the way I feel and intuit it. Otherwise why even bother! If you don’t know how you’ve gotten someplace, how can you take the journey home?
Why not just think in terms of “seeing” something in the moment and letting it fly away.
By the way, we never stop figuring it out I think. I love the word 'process". That’s what we are - all the world and each and every universe is a process.
That’s a coping mechanism of course. But how beneficial is it in the long run to keep on suppressing one’s emotions? Do you have other outlets for your anger, like exercsing, running, crying lol? What happens with the volcano that suppresses?
Anger is an avoidance of the pain. That’s something that we all need to look at.
Okay.
Yes, they do to all parties concerned which includes yourself too.
There is no black nor white here. I think that where it is a question of getting help for one’s self, a person has to do everything possible to help their self, to heal their self.
I also think that those others need to be confronted about what was done to one’s self. Ideally, it would be a good thing if those others could take an honest look at what someone is saying about what they felt was done to them and how it affected them. I know that always isn’t an easy thing. But even without that, the person has to continue on with their healing process.
This is a bit different though in a way. You want to publish this in black and white. This has some blurriness for me. People always feel that they have perfect freedom when it comes to speech and other things. The only thing which bothers me is the revelation of names. There is just something about that but again i realize that it would be difficult for you to write your story without the names unless you wrote it under an assumed name. I don’t see you doing that. But you have to do what you feel it takes to heal though hmmm…remember others need to heal too. But maybe I’m wrong in the way I look at it. It is only my perspective and I’m not even sure I’m presenting a clear one here.
So, in a matter of speaking, you were just acquaintances at first?
A month really isn’t that long a time to know someone, to want to make a commitment as a girlfriend/boyfriend, I don’t think. What do you think?
Perhaps at the time she hadn’t really had the time to analyze her feelings.
If you had told one another that you loved one another and if she had said that she would wait for you and be faithful, then that might make things a bit different. But still -
So how did she respond to that? You see, I don’t think that either of you had much time together to "seal the deal’ in a way. It’s not like you were together for months before you left for Bosnia or had planned a life together - or did you? I’m just trying to help you see from another point of you - mine.
If this had been some other woman, she might have said that she wasn’t sure about how she felt - after all, it was only a few weeks. She might have wanted to write to you though, to keep in touch, for both your sakes. But your ex might just be another type - not a wrong type, just different type than some other women. Again, it can sometimes be so easy to fall in love but sometimes it is not "absence makes the heart grow fonder, bit is out of sight out of mind. You really didn’t know each other so well I don’t think and that is the reality of it. or did you? I’m not speaking of sex here. I’m talking about “real” human intimacy and sharing.
Well, then, I might say that in order to continue your own healing process, you would have to disassociate yourself from her - at least until you can become detached from how thinking about her affects you. If you are both so different, what’s the logic?
But if you can find it in heart to have some understanding and compassion for her, it would be easier for you to have that for yourself also. Try to consider where she has been - or not - it’s not an easy thing to do but it does stretch us in ways which could help our own healing process.
Do you mean the way in which i choose to nurture or protect myself?
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I don’t agree with this. We all have to learn how to love. As you spoke about the bear and compromise…the bear who didn’t want to share his fishing place. Compromise is also about love because it sees that we ourselves are not the only ones in the equation. If we refuse to compromise for reasonable reasons, then where is the love? I’m just asking I may be wrong but I intuit that i may be right. lol
I’m not sure I am understanding you about the nature/nurture thing. Don’t get me wrong. I do understand the difference but not how you’re applying it to this.
Yes, I am capable of feeling compassion and empathy.
Insofar as the pedophile is concerned, at first glance I realize that I do have feelings of bias about this as I think is normal. I’m a Mom and I find myself in an emotional/protective place where any child is concerned. But after really thinking about it somewhat, trying to without any emotion, I thought of the saying from the bible I believe: “And a child shall lead them”. There could be many meanings for this line but in order for me to come to any sympathy/compassion/understanding for him/her, I would have to think of that person as the child who he/she was at one time. I would have to somewhat know that person’s history and inner and outer experience as a little boy or girl. I realize that it is often, if not always, the case of the pedophile having been sexually assaulted and abused by another pedophile as a young child. And on and on and on it goes.
I can only say possibly because I cannot know until I know but possibly if I could know that that person does feel guilt and remorse for what they have done to the victim and is struggling and doing whatever can be done in order to prevent that from happening again, then I might be able to feel the sympathy and compassion and understand the terrible journey in that regard. If that person though has no remorse/guilt/regret whatsoever and is totally just a predator who only wants to continue being a predator, then there can be no understanding, et cetera. Of course, any positive feelings do not, for me, disregard the fact that that person needs to answer for his actions/crimes/be penalized by spending time in jail and wouldn’t that person who was “trying” necessarily feel the same?
Probably just some kind of a quirk within me - my problem with the word damaged.
But there was a time that I thought of myself as so much excess baggage as a result of not having been wanted… as in excess baggage…something not really needed until others came along to show me myself in another way. But anyway, we are not TVs. We are not really objects. I think I don’t like the word "damaged’ because it objectifies us as human beings. As I said, it might just be a quirk with me. I have a few of them.
But I do get your analogy to a defect.
I don’t think that anyone is really born “new”. We all come along with family genes, DNA and even that conditions us before we’ve had a chance to begin growing. …for instance alcoholism and how it affects the child, physically and mentally. We are no tabula rasa, I don’t think.
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So the change was a part of you. What you experience is a part of you and who you are.
What made you enlist in the first place? You had to know that those were two entirely different environments? So what really changed?
Yes, I agree with this. But you did say that you think all of the time. You can’t help it.
What do YOU do to counteract all of that thinking all of the time?
Did you mean to say nurtured enough NOT to be “completely” unhappy?
I think that the right kind of nurturing causes us to be happy in a realistic way - not in a blissfully ignorant way, like seeing like if rose-colored glasses.
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What “finish” are you talking about. There’s no finish until you’ve breathed your last breath.
Can you elaborate on the second part of that? I don’t understand.
You mean that we are capable of possessing consciousness.
We would think, right? But tell me, what might that entail for you.
All I was saying is that being practical doesn’t have to be about rationalizing/justifying. Sometimes it’s the only choice we can make. Maybe a better word would have been stoic.
Let’s forget about right or wrong? Do we need at least our own code of ethics and morality in this world of ours?
