Changing how I view life, when faced with death.

Have you thought about making a bucket list and what you would do if confronted with a shortened lifespan?

While I’ve pondered all manner of things in my life, at this time, I don’t really have a desire to do anything but continue on my journey of being open and honest with myself. If you would like, I guess that you could call me telling those in my life how I really feel, as being a type of bucket list… although, I have no desire to partake in activities or visit locations… I’ve led a pretty interesting life, been a lot of places and done a lot of things. Ultimately, I have mostly been interested in matters of the mind and that is where I prefer to spend my time.

I have never been officially tested, but based on antecdotal evidence, I’d place my IQ at somewhere around 130+. While I can understand people and their motivations very astutely, I can honestly say that I’ve never really related to anyone. If I had to describe it, the feeling is akin to what a person of slightly above average IQ feels when interacting with stereotypical tropes of ignorant populations. For instance, a middle-classed person with a decent education might understand a poverty stricken, beer drinking redneck; but they simply cannot relate to the lifestyle “choices”. I routinely find myself as the smartest person in the room and I dropped out of school in the 9th grade… by “smart”, I’m not referring to knowledge as much as I am referring to critical thinking and problem-solving ability. While I have educated myself in a wide variety of subjects, my knowledge is by no means fully comprehensive on any of them. Anyways, to the point of all this background information, I just see the world differently than most others I’ve encountered. I’m keenly aware of everything around me and would love for the ability to simply be ignorant from time to time. It’s so bad in-fact, that I find myself finishing people’s thoughts for them in conversations, so either I’m an asshole due to impatience or I’m utterly bored waiting for people to say what I already know they’re going to say. This makes it very difficult to enjoy conversation, so I typically just get lost in my own thoughts.

That said, I’m no savant in areas of usefulness… you won’t catch me solving math equations that stump the brightest Mathematicians or devising groundbreaking scientific theories (like renowned geniuses). I may learn more quickly than most other people, but I possess no unusual insights in such fields, I’m simply not passionate about them. My ex went to an ivy-league school and studied neuroscience, yet I could answer questions on her tests without having every picked up the textbook or having attained more than a GED educationwise… so if there’s any area that I’m gifted in some manner, it’s probably the fields of Psychology and Philosophy. I’ve never studied any of these in a formal setting, but my insights tend to either impress or infuriate others. To illustrate, I had never read the works on Socrates before, but more than a few people mentioned similarities in the observations that I made. And yes, I know what most are thinking when reading that previous statement… that unfortunately is your problem… based on your conditionings, indoctrinations, perspectives, perceptions and biases. After reading the works based on him, I did notice similarities, such as trying to manipulate others into seeing things that they didn’t want to see (usually resulting in the same angry responses). It wasn’t until recently that I noticed the bitterness and frustration that led to such a mindset. Attempting to control others to make them see my views, because I was intellectually lonely and disenfranchised with my perception of reality.

I’m sure that I’m leaving out vital information from A to B, as I tend to take certain concepts for granted and assume others are on the same page. Regardless, hope that helps you understand a little more about me, if you have specific questions I’ll do my best to respond.

Thinking, postulating, calculating, analyzing, organizing, and scheming are all great things but sometimes you just got to drop everything throwing all caution in the air by just living in the moment where everyday life becomes a pleasurable sometimes damning adventure. Sometimes you have to cut lose the constraints, pretensions, doubts, routines, and everything else to live life to the fullest.

Here comes my story. I was brought up with a silver spoon and a very tarnished one at that. My father was an alcoholic has been, was abusive and detrimental mom, who had to take it in stride. He was totally manipulative and completely control. He loved on his own terms and he dismissed his family mattee of factly. So he raped me early on by setting me up for the classy life but substantially disengaging from guidance how to get there.

The break came in pre adolescence, when he saw he couldn’t hide his own homosexuality any longer from a precocous son.

Thereafter i became estranged from him literally and otherwise, moved to another country with my mom, who slowly morphed into a bohemian which in her life meant men and painting in oil

I became a thinker thereafter, reclusive and meased up, which i sustained until the present day
Religion meant a lot toe all my life,until fairly recently , and even though church has become a mwre formality, God doea mean a sense of absolute energy,the saving grace of which sustains the soul.

Right now i am siding with the metaphysical philosophers who support a foundation into the mystical and metaphysical realms of humam existence

Unfortunately, that isn’t in my nature. I cannot simply turn my brain off, it goes at all times, even when I wish it wouldn’t. At best, I can hyper-focus on certain things, giving me somewhat of a break from pondering everything. When I’m sufficiently motivated, my mind becomes obsessive, thinking of nothing but performing the task in front of me… I get easily distracted by my thoughts though, once I loose my focus, my mind begins to wander as I contemplate anything and everything again. This hyper-focus allows me to excel at most things I attempt, but I’m not a self-motivated type, because I cannot relate to the world around me. I tend to start something and eventually I look around and realize that I’m alone in my passion/focus, which makes me feel like the endeavor is pointless, so my interest quickly fades as I loose purpose for the result. It’s due to this that I cannot relate to others.

People are so consumed with other things that they sleepwalk through existence, unable and/or unwilling to look deeply or passionately at the world around them. I’ve met some who possess some of this or some of that, but it’s never to an equal extent as me. Don’t get me wrong either; I have friends and do fine socially, but I feel alone, even around many people. I’ve never felt understood or related to, beyond the superficial stuff. One cannot live life to the fullest, if they cannot be themselves to the fullest… thus my conundrum. Therefore, I just internalize my thoughts most of the time as that’s the closest I can get to fulfillment.

I’ve considered religion, but at the end of the day, it goes against the concept of aligning my beliefs to better coincide with reality. To me, religion is just another fantasy that we create to better suit our perspectives… the only real difference is that religion is structured and delusion is not.

That is not entirely the way it works. Don’t call in the jury just yet.

I never come to an inflexible stance, when it relates to knowledge. I’m not atheist, I’m simply agnostic… I have yet to see strong enough evidence to believe in a God, but I’m not arrogant enough to believe that there’s no possibility of it.

Currently though, without evidence, I must stay grounded in what I can observe. Therefore, I see religion as an illusion. To be perfectly honest, I respect most moderate religious people, they typically possess set of values and morality that I prefer. Zealotry on the other hand, I do not respect, as I find these types wanting to control reality; trying to shape it to suit their views.

My oldest brother is very religious and I see many of the same issues in him that I saw in myself. The frustration, the disappointment, the resentment, etc… he wants the world to match his ideology, but it simply doesn’t. I have witnessed many things that display just how powerful the mind is, especially in the realm of perception. It’s not a far stretch to apply such principles to religious beliefs. People delude themselves all the time, why should I differenciate such phenomenia into “crazy” and “religion”? To me, it’s the same observable root cause, the mind shaping perspective… the goal/purpose, is mostly irrelevant.

That said, I’m open to the possibility, but I require further evidence… everything I’ve experienced thus far, points to a negative result.

Again, that is a very sane and rational position to take.

What you seem to be missing is anyone to teach you, in rational terms, what all of that religious babbling was really about. Instead, you have the ramblings of a very large, not-entirely-sane populous with ulterior motives underpinning just about everything they say.

You are one of those few with whom others would benefit by being totally honest rather than attempting to manipulate, even “for your own good”. Unfortunately, you, like your entire generation, was born “behind enemy lines” and thus have no higher mentor to show you the ropes nor anyone with whom to gain an honest perspective of what it all actually meant (the words never meant what you think they meant). You are not supposed to accept any old religion so as to prepare for the new religion (“Human Secularism”).

I’ve listened to different people, with different perspectives. My brother had an experience with God, but he was also very fucked up emotionally and doing large quantities of psychedelics at the time. He cannot rationally explain it though, he’s tired numerous times, but it always leads to the same place… which is basically, I know what I experienced and you can’t possibly seem to understand it. This is typically my experiences with people of faith, be them Christians or Atheists. When you put all your eggs in one basket, you become defiant to anything that goes against your beliefs. I was there once too, but it wasn’t on the topic of religion… it was regarding morality and values.

All beliefs require faith and all opinions are beliefs, I don’t view the world in these terms any more. I obviously still have preferences, but I no longer feel the need to validate my views to others. I accept things as I observe them; looking past my own conditionings, indoctrinations, instincts and ego. I attempt to put myself in other people’s shoes to understand how they’ve come to their conclusions. I don’t feel the need to judge others any longer, because it’s self-destructive in my eyes. The world doesn’t have to make sense to me any more and I sure and the hell won’t compromise who I am any longer, to accomplish such a thing.

You haven’t listened to everyone.

Which is why I’m flexible in my views.

And this is exactly my position too. I find that as I get older I have fewer absolute opinions about anything. And so as a consequence I am
still very open to hearing opinions diametrically opposite to mine. Since it is good to be exposed to them and they may even be right too

Right and wrong are merely individual preferences. There’s no universal good or evil, no cosmic police force of morality.

We define these things to suit our perspective, in order to better understand our lives and to make sense of our experiences. We over rationalize everything, which shapes our perspective to become disconnected from reality. To illustrate, the gazelle doesn’t view the lion as evil and demonize him. It merely accepts the lion as a threat and responds accordingly. If that gazelle did create a perspective where the lion is evil, it would attempt to rationalize it’s perspective… the lion is evil and therefore must die (the instinctual response of fight) or it would wonder why the world is so unfair and unjust, seeking to escape the harsh reality of it’s circumstances (the instinctual respeonse of flight). Examples of this in men, surround us. We see two primary responses to adversity, defiance or escapism… on rare occasion, we witness acceptance. Escapism is usually misinterpreted as acceptance, because both behaviors are passive in nature, but these are two very different mind sets. The escapist will seek distraction at all costs, throwing themselves into various pursuits to avoid dealing with their issues. From socializing, to hobbies, to video games, to drugs and alcohol, etc… anything to avoid their perspective when it doesn’t correlate to reality.

Warlock,

You said: I never come to an inflexible stance, when it relates to knowledge.

Then you say: Unfortunately, that isn’t in my nature. I cannot simply turn my brain off, it goes at all times, even when I wish it wouldn’t.

Wouldn’t you say that you ARE being more than a bit “inflexible” in your thinking here? And inconsistent too, which we all tend to be at times.

Albeit you were then speaking of knowledge of god but knowledge is still knowledge whether it be of god, in your case, self…et cetera.

I asked you in the other thread What is your nature?
It seems to me that you are using the word “nature” when a better word for you might be “conditioning”.

As far as your brain goes, you can try to learn, little by little, to simply allow yourself to let go of your thoughts and your thinking…at least sometimes.
Baby steps of course but you’ve been conditioned by yourself and because of your past to not allow any open space and freedom in there.
In what way are you being "true to yourself’, to quote you yourself, by not trusting in yourself enough to simply let go and enjoy some moments? How can you be a mentor and help others find personal freedom/self-understanding if you’re not in actuality being true to yourself and loving yourself by “freeing” yourself.
We can’t teach freedom if we can’t experience it and we can’t teach love if we haven’t experienced it for ourselves or haven’t tried to.

Perhaps you need to go about and re-define who “you” and “yourself” and your “nature” are. If you think of yourself as “flow”, then where does that “it’s not my nature” live - except within your own personal belief system of your self.
So why not just try to do what Kierkegaard spoke about - take a giant leap into faith (non-religiously speaking) - and let go and allow yourself a sense of freedom. Just let it fly. It gets easier with practice.

The next night from the Flock came Kirk Maynard Gull, wobbling across the sand, dragging his leftwing,to collapse at Jonathan’s feet. “Help me,” he said very quietly, speaking in the way that the dying speak. “I want to fly more than anything else in the world…”
“Come along then.” said Jonathan. “Climb with me away from the ground, and we’ll begin.”
“You don’t understand My wing. I can’t move my wing.”
“Maynard Gull, you have the freedom to be yourself, your true self, here and now, and nothing can stand in your way.It is the Law of the Great Gull, the Law that Is.”
“Are you saying I can fly?”
“I say you are free.”
As simply and as quickly as that, Kirk Maynard Gull spread his wings, effortlessly, and lifted into the dark night air. The Flock was roused from sleep by his cry, as loud as he could scream it, from five hundred feet up: “I can fly! Listen! I CAN FLY!”

lib.ru/RBACH/seagullengl.txt_wit … tures.html

:mrgreen:

baby steps.jpg

Ahh, but jerkey, the Grim Reaper would disagree with you on that. Listen to him. He says that there will come a time when life will be “completed”. He says so release relax let go and enjoy. Who knows, he says, “I might just give you a reprieve - more time.”

youtu.be/L0MK7qz13bU

Pass It On!

Let me define what I mean by “my nature”… my nature is the same as all of our nature (as a species), the way we are before we’re bombarded with conditioning/acculturation/indoctrination/etc… such as we see in little kids. Openness, honesty, curiosity, empathy, compassion, etc… to me, that is “my true nature”. Little kids do not consider the consequences of being open and honest, until they’ve been conditioned to do so.

Thus, in the other thread, I was conflicted between my nature and my conditioning. I want to be open and honest, regardless of consequences… because the consequences to my own psyche from avoiding my true nature only destroys me (in mind and spirit)… other people will shape their perspective to protect themselves from my words. That is ultimately their problem though, not mine. I can only control myself, so I don’t bother trying to control others any longer… I follow my conscience and believe that it has a positive influence on others (as opposed to a negative one). I could point to the numerous people that I’ve impacted positively, but I’m not seeking validation from others any longer. I’ve also negatively impacted people and I’ve been trying to make amends for those things (the empathy and compassion aspects).

I’m flexible in my views, because of curiosity. I strive to continue growing as a person, if I was inflexible, I wouldn’t seek growth.

At the end of the day, I’m not perfect, I’m a work-in-progress. I currently see things as I’ve explained and will continue to do so until new information is presented to me. I’ve read everything people have posted and it has made me contemplate their words… some things I didn’t agree with initially on reading, but once I pondered it, I found myself in agreement.

Warlock,

I don’t think that all children share those same qualities/characteristics as children but I may be wrong.
But anyway, although I know very little of what you have inside of you, I can recognize or at least you would appear/seem to have those qualities about you in part. Like everything else, it would be a process to develop them to a larger degree. I think we flow in and out of them until they become natural to us, like breathing.

Sometimes they’ve been conditioned to do so and other times it’s more a case of becoming more fully conscious that words, even honest words, can hurt and demean.
It isn’t an easy thing learning to break some of the patterns which have formed/created us.

I may be wrong here since I don’t entirely understand your meaning. But you seem to be putting the cart before the horse. In other words, I think you’re anticipating and planning the way you’re going to be in all situations. I don’t think that one can do that. You speak of “regardless of consequences”…but there are consequences and sometimes they can be harmful. I think you do realize that there is a way to be open and honest without being callous and apathetic. I’m not saying that you would be THAT way. I do realize that the proper way to love ourselves and at the same time others is to be open and honest in our dealings with them. The difficult thing is in finding a harmonious way in which to balance, for lack of a better expression right now, profit and loss for both. We don’t want to sacrifice our “real” needs and be made a scapegoat for others but we also do not want to make others scapegoats either.

What is it that the bible says (I’m agnostic lol) “When I was a child, I thought as a child, spoke as a child, et cetera…Now that I have become a man, I put away the things of a child”, et cetera You catch the drift. You can’t really return to that pristine river of childhood. I know yours was not a pristine river but I’m speaking of the ideal childhood, whatever that may be.
But you can develop those qualities you spoke about at different times, depending on circumstances.

I suppose that sometimes it can be about protecting ourselves. It may also simply be because someone in reality does feel and think differently than we do.But you know the saying - "You can bring a horse to water but…you can’t make him/her drink it.
This is the image we need to hold in our minds when we try to engage someone to our way of thinking.

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That’s a good way of thinking if we can in all honesty come to this realization. Sometimes though it’s just so much “lip service”.
I know this from my own inner experiences. :blush:
But perhaps it’s better to not so much control ourselves as to observe ourselves and what we’re experiencing in the moment albeit yes we have to exercise a certain degree of discipline and consciousness and also detachment.

Well, there’s nothing wrong with receiving a little affirmation at times. It isn’t so much that we need it/look for it, but it’s life enhancing when we receive it.
I intuit that everything you said in the above quote is “real”.

Are you enjoying the journey? Is it exhilarating for you? Don’t forget to stop at the “rest stops” and remember to pay attention to those signs along the way. lol

You’re a mini universe just as we all are.

You can also go back and feel free to ponder it again, just in case. lol

We share specific qualities/traits, as a species. I’m not saying that all conditioning/acculturation/indoctrination is negative either. I’m saying that we as a society, have become wholly unnatural. We’re constantly red-lining with stress, that many are a single trigger away from entering a fight or flight response, this is because we have a completely unnatural level of stress… everything around us is pressure on us… from how we appear to how we act, we’re constantly being judged and it damages us as individuals. We see this all around us, it’s observable and quantifiable. Flight manifests in escapism, such as drug and alcohol use or burying our face in our phone. Fight manifests in defiance, such as violence against others, be it physical, emotional or social.

Why does honesty hurt and/or demean us? I believe that it’s due to the perspective that we’re taught and that we propagate. Offense can only be taken, not given.

Conflicts in our nature are going to exist, no matter what we do or don’t do. When such matters arise, we have to look out for our own well-being first (i.e. survival instinct). If I choose to not be open and honest, because I’m empathetic and compassionate of another person’s feelings, I’m damaging myself directly and indirectly damaging the other person… protecting people from themselves, isn’t helping them, it’s merely enabling them to continue being damaged. Even if that’s not the case, I must still choose my own well-being over that of another.

I’m agnostic too. I do not wish to be a child… I wish to be more in alignment with how I was born, rather than how I was shaped. I’m not looking for innocence or to go back before the damage was inflicted.

I’m not saying that my statement is fact or truth, it’s merely how I perceive things. I’ve spent the vast majority of my life living inside my own head, studying the things around me and contemplating these things from as many angles as I could conceive (especially people). I’m very good at what I do for a living, because I’m very adept at breaking people down… their motivations, needs, perceptions and perspectives… I can glean much from little about people, with a pretty good batting average. I’m by no means perfect, but I like my chances.

Observing ourselves and understanding the reasons we act, think and feel the way we do; allows us freedom to act, think and feel the way we choose to… this is ultimately what control entails… even if we choose to follow our conditioning, acculturation and indoctrination; we still have control over ourselves.

While there is nothing wrong with affirmation, it’s a slippery slope. It’s easy to become influenced by how it can make you feel, influencing you to seek it out. Meaning that your purpose changes and with this change, so do the aspects of fulfillment.

Ha, like I really have a choice? I’m constantly revisiting everything… even the smallest bit of information can have a rippling affect on your beliefs and conclusions.

Warlock,

There are cases where it was meant to be that way. Some mean-spirited people deliberately want to hurt and demean others. It makes them feel better about who they are or rather who they believe themselves to be. In other cases, it is because we are human and at times our sense of identity/ego may be a bit fragile. Honestly may demean us depending on its delivery.

:-k Tell that to the one who so easily gives offence but doesn’t have the ability to take it. That silly statement almost reminds me of Nietzsche’s “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” in its incompleteness.
But I do understand what it means I think. It all depends on how we choose to take it.

I don’t know. I think where such is concerned, different situations and people demand different action.
But ultimately, yes, when it comes down to both parties being harmed, the most rational and practical response is the best. Does compassion for another dictate that we forget ourselves/sacrifice ourselves? No. Compassion has to also be built in right reasoning and seeing consequences. Sometimes there are so many gray areas.

There is a difference between being “childish” and being “child-like”. You don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater though.
Childish is taking a temper tantrum because we don’t get our own way.
Child-like is seeing the wonder and the beauty in the world. Having the capacity to see that beauty when it is there and appreciate it is being child-like and THAT can bring you to a more simple and serene self.
I think that the goal to strive for here is synergy, Warlock, harmony, integration.
Describe to me, give me an example, of what you mean by “more in alignment with how I was”.

Yes, everything is about perception.

You might want to get a job working for the FBI or CIA as a profiler. :mrgreen:
Can you tell me in what way what you say above serves others? This is not a challenge. I actually want to know.
You do need to spend time outside of your head you know. You and it at times need a vacation from each other. Just enjoy, pay attention to what you see, appreciate it. Breathe in all of that green nature, the animals, et cetera. That may help bring you back to your “real” nature.

Does that include “in an ethical way” or simply as you choose?
Do you mean that these things show us the different choices which we have?

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Well, I guess you do have a point here. That would depend on the individual who is affirming and his/her intent. Affirmation doesn’t have to be anything more basically than one person showing another the positive side to them…like being a beacon in the moment. We all appreciate that sometimes. Affirmation isn’t manipulation.
Also, I think that depending on who the receiver is, we have to be discriminate about how much we give out. Balance. If we know that someone can succumb to too much kindness, then it isn’t kindness to them in the long run. It’s poison.

That’s not such a bad thing though, is it? Unless you spend “forever” on the same thing to the point of scrupulosity…going over and over it in your mind.
The trick is to observe/see the landscape - not to bombard it with things which will hide it.
We’re not perfect specimens. We don’t have to question ourselves unceasingly.
Rationalizing is different than honest reflection of self…seeing what’s there.
I always know when the rationalizing begins. It leaves me breathless and impatient with myself. lol