I did a test 4 times in total and got 4 different results. Whats up with this method? Why is it popular?
One test says I am introverted, the next extraverted. One says Im judging, the other perceiving. Thinking vs feeling, no decision.
I may think that this test only may apply to a specific pool of people. I.e. that one already belongs to a category if the test is able to make some sense of ones personality.
A human can be ‘the Briggs Myer type’.
We possibly fit to mathematical models in some ways, given that out thoughts are patterns of information, but as you infer, there are aspects of mind like judging and perceiving which are faculties of similar things. Perceiving is like the tool and judging is its focus and meter perhaps.
I think they try to oversimplify and to a far extreme, when what is required is a more rigorous and expansive categorisation schemata.
Oh I agree perfectly. The human is too complex to reduce to these categoroes. Moreover, these categories are, as you point out, too complicated to be excluded from each other.
One of the reasons I took to astrology is that it offers realer (more ferociousy real) categories and infinitely more permutations.
An astrology reading will often indicate a person with contradicting qualities. Even, a first glimpse of a psyche is often gained by recognizimg basic contradictions.
The human psyche may well be built on contradicting itself. If it does not, it is reduced to animality.
Awareness of death is itself a kind of psycho-emotional, identity-related contradiction.
Interesting, I find it subtle and almost indefinable [same as the thing we are]. Though however intangible it is and how vacuous, once one uses the terminology and visual references as an instrument, the findings are hard to refute. At least to ourselves. Naturally if you say someone’s astrology is x,y,z, then if they aren’t also seeing it they will not be getting the information background and the words will be hollow.
I am wondering if there are patterns of balance at root, e.g. libra is the balance and that has a shape in terms of the permeations of said balance [its points of balance of pans Vs stem]. But how do I find the patterns of other signs?
If you ll bear with me on that note for a moment, consider that the human (self-)identity is for a large part built of contrasting notions.
This is why fear is so instrumental to most things human - we are able to integrate fear, in ways far from wholesome, and have it shape our thoughtpatterns.
We are able to do the same with regret, guilt, and all negative self-regard, and our cultural narratives basically build their notions of us in terms of such denials.
Negation is a principle of construction in the human soul.
Let me think about your question.
Sure thing
its as if the world with all its aggregates are the means, and the ‘forge’ of the mind. Do we need to see that in terms of positives or negatives et al? Hmm and there I was speaking about balance lol.
I think thats exactly it.
The connotation of heat and melting is good, because it is required of the mind to ‘deform’ these means as you call them so as to fit in with each other in a way that sustains the ‘sense of identity’ that any mind must have it it isnt stark mad, in which case it will not be able to sustain the organism by its own resources, and it will either die or be committed (into a state of non- or quasi-being, some ward)
The mind is a forge, the forged product is Identity, which is the human way of being a functioning entity.
As for balance in astrology - in recent years Ive been able to shift from thinking about signs to thinking about axes; Libra becomes part of the Aries-Libra axis, which reveals more of its characteristics; Libra may be balancing, but it is also aggressive, assertive in doing so; it is an air sign, controlling from above, masculine/yang.
Scorpio is feminine/yin, controlling from within; letting things happen and being sure to take a good position in the process.
These axes are fascinating terms to hold up against psychological problems.
The Taurus-Scorpio axis is relentless - here we see that what is seen as passive is truly powerful; it simply draws things to it, it does not have to move of itself.
The balance between masculine and feminine is not a zero-sum game, it is rather one of subtle additions, of architecture of a psyche.
Indeed, and ‘functioning’ is key there I think. The mind before being forged is respectively incapable, but we want to keep some of the child/feminine don’t we [if its even possible to remove that element]? And we don’t want ‘being forged’ to be ‘being forced’ e.g. into being like how we would otherwise rather not be, nor being ‘like the world’ and nothing other than that.
The identity I put, is in the subjective and the observer has a different identity to the given identifiers [elements in the forge]. Like the sword is born out of the stone, but not a property of the stone [even though iron does come from stone, it doesn’t come from the stones used in the forging].
Like the dragon? Where if you marry Chinese to western astrology charts, goat to Capricorn, Libra lands on the dragon.
Axis are the points I was referring to within the context of the balance. So there would probably be corresponding points and respective polarities at each meeting point?
Interesting, I knew a Taurus-Scorpio couple in London, and they did exist like that ~ as if being the centre or at least centripetal.
Like the eternal battle between the dragon/masculine and the serpent/feminine in Chinese mysticism/Taoism.
Here’s a world map mapped to the signs beginning at midwinter/capricorn. The zones are [edit] not exact due to the sphericy of the earth to a flat map and its accuracy. However, you can see Libra/Dragon clearly lands upon China.
edit; I wonder if the vertical should also start in Capricorn not like the picture. though tiger by libra sounds about right for China?
Being a polymath, I tend to get different results based on what I compare the questions with. For example I might answer in the context of my teaching career, my efforts at DIY, or my efforts as an artist.
All of these things as well as my home life, social or personal life if I am thinking of those with reference to each of the questions, the results are always different.
I also think that I tend to get the result of the sort of person I think I ma, and not the person I am in an objective sense.
I have to conclude that the tests are bollocks.
What utter rubbish.
Who’s test did you use?
You have Secondary and Tertiary functions too. Under MBTI (it gas some issues) tritary functions aren’t encoded to the 16 types… but more advanced theories have done a better job mapping it out.
Example, I am a INTJ based more in the Right Supplementary Motar Area. INTJs like me are expected to go in a INTJ, ENTJ, ISTP cycle. Its how I can survive doing guard stuff with a fully active mind, switch between being out going and in charged, or reserved and contributing to leadership needs in anticipation. Someone like Shield Maiden is based in the Left Motor area… you see it play out in her arguments and retorts. We can switch off to either system largely at will.
You gotta look at how the MBTI type relates to a function of the mind, isolate it in a node, and look at the expected functions of neighboring brains regions in the cytoarchitecture. Cause and effect triggers.
Sauwelios as a INTP is in the Thalamus. Very low raw intelligence on the one hand coupled with a high degree of mental interconnect I need, but it’s not in control of the mental operations like I am, but merely the end reviever. Most philosophers fall into this part of the mind I’m told (I’m trying to dispute this statistically, I doubt the claim. Most modern academics certainly yes, but not most philosophers in history). They don’t do much, are general let downs and cause more problems than they are worth.
You also go guys in the Basal Ganglia (Zoots Allure) who process a lot of the imagination, ate highly impulsive and don’t think shit out… they just do, don’t think about it.
They are the first strata in the mind, followed by guys like me… we network most of the mind actively together (Nietzsche was a INTJ too, just to point out, Google it). After my function, it is processed to a third tier, which mostly receives it subconsciously. Such people see themselves in everyone, can’t ever be convinced they aren’t any one type, etc. It is usually the first indication they are based in the Thalamus.
I recall they have a unique quirk. Given how that part of the mind is structured, there is a fully conscious feedback loop, where they can “see” the feedback loop at one point, thinking a thought… see it processed, and then see it loop back around the brain from the other side of the brain to be reworked.
A lot if the Dionysian vs Apollo crap comes from this divide… thalamus has periphial interaction with the excitable basal ganglia, and basal ganglia has little to do with the thalamus… my brain region does the networking… so these people can flip flop at times. It doesn’t feel like a flip flop to be, but two functions always there.
If you look at Donald Trump… he is SMA ENTJ with strong Basal traits like Zoots or Magsj… but next to nothing like Sauwelios or Zinnati. Sauwelios or Zinnati would melt in the presence of such a person. I wouldn’t, just wouldn’t care… someone like Arc based in the Right Frontal Lobe would freak out though… he would get her but she wouldn’t get him.
Brain is stratified into four areas… quarters… each a dominate personality type. The Basal, SMA, and Thalamus links these areas… Basal is controlled by the SMA, Thalamus recieves and throttles my area (you see Zinnsti try to do this unsuccessfully, largely because he is ignorant… it is his instinct to do so, whatever the facts, until he gets comfortable facts).
So you end up with roughly 7 brain regions, that have crainial nerves linking feedback loops from one region to the next. These crainial nerves are your MBTI primary functions.
INTJ is in the right hemisphere. Links if I recall the right parietal to the SMA. If I have a brain lesion that effects this, I cease to exist… I switch to a different brain region. But if I get hit in the thalamus, Ill just turn into a Insomniac. Its happened to me before. But I know some INTPs who can’t suffer such sleep irregularities, it destroys them… they gave to keep a schedule.
Brain isn’t that hard to use.
Oh… your astrology matrix… that’s the right parietal lobe processing through to the left dorsal lateral (left dorsal lateral is Orbie). It goes through my region.
Go search Buckminister Fuller. He sits most fully on unifying this process. You’re either Right Paritisl, with some INTJ, a low performing SMA INTJ (I’m moderately high, near manic genius but not quite the top of the pyrimid of all), or one of the final feedback loops in the Thalamus observing through my function my coordination of the Right to Left processing. Then Shield Maiden Returns it. I see it through Zoot Allures imagination. Bishop Berkeley thinks I’m God apparently.
I used the thought processes of various members of the forum to explain basic processed.
If you go to a archaic system like the Seriphot:
Your little matrix chart is a product of Heard, Hokhmat, and Da’at.
Its a shitty neurological map, but not too bad… still lists a lot of the crainial nerves linking up brain regions. All MBTI does is map those lines that link those globes together. Its not the Seriphot themselves, but what links them. Okay?
Technically, Da’at should be where Keter is, and Keter where Da’at is… as Keter matches up with contributor in description… (INTPs like Sauwelios are in Terefet, they can’t see all our functions)… many dominate in the left hemisphere don’t believe Da’at links up with Hokhmat in the right… basically your graph… like I said, they receive a lot of info, but throttle it down and don’t know how the ideas were worked out.
So what have we learned? We learned why Lev Muiskin us a judgmental bitch in the last paragraph. He is based in the bright parietal, like Cedar/History Boy, isn’t aware how Keter (in this graph, Da’at) visualizes,and constructs the empty data before sending but piecemeal to Orbie to construct with raw theoretical data, linking point to point… to Shield Maiden who like Karl Marx and Zikek in the lLeft Supplimenrary together, back to me who links it together to historical, biographical, technological data… for Lev Muishkin to accept or reject once more… then it gets tossed in mad torrents by me back to Sauwelios or Zinnato who are timid scared little fucks who can’t take that much raw data, and take in little bits and pieces, and rely heavily on group efforts (or sick over reliance on sources they don’t understand enough to systematically criticize) for final working.
When you see people falling in attacking Trump, it’s usually just the Thalamus. Ironically, these people tend to work for such people as assistants. INTPs are very compatible with INTJs, thrive off the raw data, trying to control the psychology of the bucking broncho but can’t. INTJs can tolerate this pragmatically, but find such individuals increasingly one dimensional given they lack much insights into the Basal Ganglia.
Lots of imformation. Proof of it is how it will be taken.
Lev … lacking Zoots ability to visualize what I just said (Zoot would explain what he got of it to him) will reject it… saying bullshit. Why? Hesed doesn’t directly link up to Binah… Orbie is his unconscious opposite. Shield Maiden isn’t going to be as interested in my info, as it didn’t come from Hesed… where a lot of her data arrives. I will know this in advance though, as I sent it to him, and am awaiting it’s return from her… and I will complete the abstract statistical into concrete real… she is even tempted to say I don’t know what I am talking about exactly here… I know cause I hear that part of my mind… I can become it at will, switching back and forth, but my primary is here. I show it to Lev… Lev goes “WTF!”, rejects aspects without understanding the whole… the concrete mixes with memories from Arc, and emotions, sighs, Semotics, Emojis… it becomes a maddening while while where I run out of paper, and start writing equations out of my own feces on the wall. Sauwelios or Zinnati observes I utterly insane, yet brilliant… isolate my “insanity” while taking a few “equations” from the wall.
What else tries to check this? The seventh part, language center in my left hemisphere (Smears) who is prone to anger, has a serious dark side and is deeply defensive about protecting itself. Arc likes this aspect of mind more than I do, hence my right hemisphere preference.
Also, a aspect of Orbie via Only Humean, that isn’t able to take the severeness of the raw data the SMA pumps through it, or Zoots and Jokers behavior. It weeks compartment, ettiwuette, balance. Likes logic… not full logical statements, but constructing them. Enjoys reading. Has unimpressive dreams. Joins very boring churches. Not to be confused though with the Thalamus, which generally finds it easier to relate to this severe Stoic aspect than the Epicurian pleasures and skepticusm aspects of the right. Why? Buckminuster Fuller… they run the risk of tripping that, causing a need for deep, fanatical devotion on the basis of social need to gix things absolutely… it’s all his best traits minus my ability to modulate the feedback loops. Yep… INTPs… scared little INTPs, are your crazy fucking little Cultists. Very thin line between scientific skepticism andvreligioys devotion. Not too surpringing, see Swedenborg. He was based in just Lev’s area, had a stroke, activated consciously mine and Zoots area simultaneously, had very advanced visions. Built a highly systematic religion out of it, impressed the Zen master Suzuki greatly in the twentieth century.
That is MBTI in a nutshell.
The old British guy, Amorphous, I think his name is, used to be Thalamus a few years back (he describes people on visual psychological representations) but now has better integrated a few other aspects of the mind. INTPs can eventually do thus, but have a tendency to just jump ship and switch personality types to said region. He is in the long process of transition, doesn’t occur overnight.
I need a sandwich.
When it is being forced, I dare to say that it is pushed into a state of partial insanity, partial non-identity.
I mean identity in the sense of self-identity, self-knowledge, consciousness of being whatever one manages to draw from experience - in the sense that we are what we amount to, in the words of Louis CK, who I came to think of as a philosopher of some worth.
Identity is also the courage to do weird things, things that do not make sense in terms of others. Often it is for such acts that people become well liked or at least renowned, that they forge an identity in the minds of others, that they bridge the gap between inner psyche and collective psyche.
I believe very much in psychism, telepathy, instant knowledge. I learn these things only from experience. A girl I was with yesterday has it worse than I am, she had doors in her apartment closing and appliances starting on their own accord. I cant avoid taking all that in as reality. To me, physical reality is a layer upon a more subtle and forceful dynamic, of which the elemental forces of physics are part.
Anything that is axiomatic to a paradigm must be recognized as embedded in a paradigm beyond that paradigm.
Right, the sword is not born only of stone, it is also the product of human invention and labor, combined with the materials that provide the heat to forge it.
The sword definitely has an identity.
In its being forged, it has forged a whole reality around it.
The blacksmith and the owner are both part of the swords identity.
Work + intent, together this goes a long way in forging anything. But the intent has to be gathered, from a lot of work that is done somewhat at random. I dont believe in primordial intent; I do in primordial possibility.
A Chinese astrologer called Theodora Lau clarified to me that the Dragon stands to Aries, then the Snake to Taurus, etc. Im not sure where Capricorn lands in this scheme, Aquarius is Tiger, Pisces is Rabbit.
Yes, very deep ones. They truly only make sense in the midst of the most relentless soul searching or churning, or ultimately building - I catch glimpses of their logics now after near 20 years of obsessive study.
In my chart the Leo Aquarius axis rules, is the cause of my very particular and unyielding pride issues. I largely exist by the grace of the difference between the individual and the group; this is my main ‘daemonism’.
How that plays out is that I arrogantly fight for the right of individuals to exist within the group, but do this in a group context, as individuals can only attain power within groups.
It’s probably the most visibly potent axis. Venus is associated with (‘rules’) Taurus, Mars and Pluto with Scorpio.
Ah, I am not aware of this particular symbolic battle but yes, thank you for that image.
that would indeed correspond to the battle between Aries (Mars, Sun) and Taurus (Venus, Moon).
I edited the post with ‘not’ ~ an exact mapping due to the earth’s spherical form. I suppose you were actually referring to the very idea of mapping astrology to the world. Nature does use maths and cycles, and in the third party. If you don’t believe ‘you’ or mental qualia exist, then there is no reason accept there may be something to astrology. Yet the idea that there are no mental things nor an experiencing observer [nor colour, sound etc], is I think more absurd than astrology, and is simply a case of science trying to explain observable realities away.
I was on the E side of 3 out of the 4 different ones I used. I used the first 4 on google.
I would consciously describe myself as being on the I side but apparently not.
I did not quite get the brainfuctions as a whole set of operators in a coherent scheme, but it seems like you’re working from one, at least one you perceive.
What are the parts of the brain related to E types? If we can reduce this to neural scientific categories, we’re a lot closer to making it useful.
It’s fairly easy to learn to control which parts of the brain predominate in the cycle of their interaction, where the energy is being sent. This is how meditation works, it builds connections in the frontal lobes and forces the identity to take place there. It can be done with other parts of the brain as easily; a psychotic loop is an excess of connections in parts of the brain that do not operate on reason or clarity.
I tried Neurofeedback for a while, which resulted in having multiple dreams simultaneously and pain in the marrow of all my bones. Better method is to just focus on parts of the brain and balance them out. Throwing some water around the skull is often good enough to get centered.
Voice combines the brain functions in a waveform. Humans and animals alike seek cohering voices. Whoever can hear uses this function to cohere the brain. Priorities in response patterns can be altered to a degree. Experiment is required for the estimation that degree.
I propose we all meditate on the reptile brain this night.
Also, I have a theory about the Myer Briggs self-valuing, which is that its own type is J, and it attracts mostly people who land on that definition. It applies to them as they are judging in a narrow sense, not valuing as comprehensively as types that would be categorized as E but might be just as much partaking in the I side. I and J, is what I see mostly as coming out of the tests of people taking them.
You can’t consistently self value across all the J types. Your Jewish, you should know this had you paid attention at Temple as a kid. Three separate centers of self, holds as true in Judiasm as in modern neurology.
And no one brain region deals with extroverted thought, tends to be the backside of the feedback loop. Remembered when I said INTJ, ENTJ, ISTP is my range? INTJ and ENTJ is the back sides of the same feedback loop, in the right hemisphere.
Imagine you have two random computer components. Neither in and of themselves are anything. You attack one wire LEAVING part one, Entering part Two… thats INTJ… and then leaving that part another wire, heading back to the original… that’s ENTJ.
Now add another wire to one of the parts… just recieving. All it does is recieve. ISTP.
Thats my normal range. I can expand out of this… jump over to the LEFT SMA for example…
Look at Zizek… LEFT SMA, he has hundreds of videos on the next, look at where he is talking about his likes and dislikes… youll find most applies to me, but I add a additional dimension to it. Why? Im active in both, but sit in the right. I add those extra twists.
Every brain region has therefore, both E and I data intering it, AND leaving it. When we say we are EXXJ or EXXP, we are saying we generally associate with with E(X) function… X unknown… you cant have pure E, thats meaningless drivel… the (X)J is actively deciding (or has already been decided), or the (X)P is recieving.
i recall Sauwelios having a similar suppostion. He thought NT types were linked to the superman. This is idiotic. Cats have NT too. Its just your 12 cranial nerves in your head linking up brain regions.
Look at it this way… you should be able to take any text, especially ancient, that teaches a Art of War, Ethics, or Statecraft, a Princes Mirror, etc… and go through its psychological prescriptions.
How do you explain, for example, the idea that a soldier should go from quiet and obedient on guard, work his way up through merit, until he becomes general? A system of merit applied to the advancement throygh the ranks presumes this is at least possible. But many would point out there is a world of seeming difference between Napoleon and a guy on Guard. As a Nietzschean… you glorify one, but not the other… deciding they are of two different classes.
Guards fit the mould of the ISTP… in books like the Hagakure you’ll find there is considerable duscussion on just this… that a samurai needs to contend himself with even doing the lowest solitary practices such as holding low rank and standing watch… for seemingly ever… that it is actually a aspect of the larger system and you never lose this aspect, your other aspects grow out of this. The system of merit tries to grow out of this that ENTJ leader, or a INTJ strategic mastermind that can lead his clan to victory. You have this on off toggle… silent guard to tactical genius in a second the military is premeditated on.
This is very, very old. Humans didn’t invent it, babboons but it’s betamale sentries on the outside, it’s alphas on the inside, P outside, J inside… but as you know… more that one sense of self… the P’s can switch to J as far as hierarchical dominance goes. Fight that hyena off, or kill the alpha. Its just a switch via ISTP. Napoleon was playing with this the whole time he was under the Republic. This region of the brain coordinates most of the brains dispersed data.
In humans, using the concept of the Greek Polis… Polis is to Field Army, as Field Army is to Polis… the one can become the other in such a potentially migratory society that repeatedly fortified itself, in military camps or civic centers. A army camp can take a city, or grow into one over time. It has a soft interior, hard exterior… just like babboons. Like I said, very old system. We still use it today… the Army Blue Book, by Baron Von Steuben… a Hessian who trained the US Army, we preserve his system in our coding, focused on these transitions from taking a field army… setting it up into a fortified camp… building it up… setting sentries, going out on expeditions with scouts, building new camps, on and on in infinite cycles, like the Greeks, like the babboons.
What you see is Merit involves more than J, but also (T)P in observing (X)S the technical forms of both movements in our camp and that of the opposition. Most biographies from a US perspective of great generals follow this formula. When we note someone has failings, such as Patton it’s due to (F)J, such as slapping wouknded soldiers or losing about 300 guys rescuing his son in law. He is applauded for his INTJ insights, and ENTJ leadership. It is a very simple mapping system.
There are leadership styles completely outside of this, Winston Churchill was more Zoots. Merely having a INTJ,.ISTP, ENTJ complex doesn’t ensure proper advancement and outcome either… while they tend to be the most intelligent, there is a bell curve to even them. Even dumb ones like Stalin or Hitler can generally climb to the top… but this doesn’t guarantee success. Your past does. They climb because they occupy the right mental mode… which is generally rare as a primary personality type, at just that right moment. Everyone’s thought process is susceptible to it, due to its position in the mind. It’s literally the engine that turns the mind, tends to carry the rhetorical arguments, completes the logic. Doesn’t mean its a good produce in the end… shit can come all fucked up and garbled. The virtues of the system us your supposed to learn all the hidden aspects every stage to the top, but a lot of guys cut the seeming shit and prefer just being at the top as a numbskull. Lenin… a highly knowledgeable piece of shit… skipped some steps Marx said was essential. Stalin… even greater piece of shit, skipped most of the learning process Lenin bothered with. Process kept getting dumber and dumber. Merit didn’t matter much, especially when the top guy is killing everyone with it.
There isn’t one given personality type that naturally should lord over others, as no one aspect is completely consumed by another… there are always other aspects going on in the background nobody can control and consciously assume in any given state of the mind. There is no over man… the shape of our skulls pushes our brain regions around, species by species… we gain and lose connections by increments, and adapt by neuralchemical specializations in what we can still operate. Mist vertabrates still have those same 12 cranial nerves running through similar brain regions… just these changes over time effect the smaller pathways in the cut I architecture. Its why we are able to build our system up from a babboob like social structure… it’s one of the reasons I blast the idiot Nietzscheans soon much too… a tyrant beta becoming Alpha typically leads to a greater loss to civilization than anything else… this process leads to idiots taking over and stagnation typically. We lose a awareness of all those necessary steps for raising up the merit ladder, rank by rank… you just want hereditary ranks without insight to what they do. This doesn’t work as children rarely follow the exact learning style of their parents. They switch regions in response to both patents specializations, as well as older siblings. I’m a INTJ because my mother was the dead opposite, my survive depended upon it… but you put most kids in such a Above, they will just loose. You gotta have that potential in you to begin with. Spartans tried to institutionalize the process and failed.
FC
We live then die, then everything in our spiritual constitution [life story/wisdom] is merged into a single entity. So the next incarnation gets all of that as if in one gulp, and it is that I believe, which is the ‘knowing part’ of us.
I think the weird stuff derives from an axis of the soul being disjointed – so to speak. Its the same with anxiety, it feels like a root part of you is projected outside of your centre, as if like inverse astral projection. …i used to make TV’s stop working like that lol.
Does the sword not have its own identity irrespective of who casts it too? The caster/forger does make a difference, but what I mean is that we come to be who we are, and that identity was always meant to be, as if there is a path [Tao/way] to that.
Ultimately we’d all end up in one group, then what does the power of the group mean. It seams that to sustain the group is an individualistic effort, in the sense of a particular set or group cast against other individual groups. Like race & culture and such things. So why not just have a unilateral effort toward individuality in the universal sense?
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So you are saying you can turn off tv’s with your mind without touching the remote or console.
Please post a video or some evidence demonstrating that ability, preferably, with some witnesses.