Who- why- where are we ?

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

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Who- why- where are we ?

Postby waechter418 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:23 pm

It seems that since we are aware of ourselves we have been trying to find out who, why & where we are and that many of our religions, cosmologies, philosophies and sciences developed around this quest.

The answers differ widely, see for example neurologists, Buddha, Hegel, astrophysicists, Lao Tse or Christian fundamentalists - yet each insists to have the right answer, which is understandable, after all, it is not easy to admit that the quest has been in vain and increases our confusion.

What is going wrong?
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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby surreptitious57 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:11 pm


Not everyone who thinks they are right actually is
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:24 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Not everyone who thinks they are right actually is

How do you now that you are right about that?

..and that is "what is wrong" .. not knowing how to know.

But look how long it took them to figure out how to fly. Just because it takes Man thousands of years to get over his ego issues, doesn't mean that he can't eventually get there. Man can now absolutely know .. he just hasn't bothered to convince himself of it yet (again, more ego issues).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby surreptitious57 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:52 pm

James S Saint wrote:
How do you now that you are right about that

Mutual incompatibility on a very consistent scale
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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby Amorphos » Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:34 pm

If there were an answer, what then? Would we all be wandering around doing the thing we were put here for, or would that washing-up still need doing.

An answer would specifically mean there was a question or reason why existence came into existence. If existence knew how to formulate a question or set of questions as denumerable as those purported in our reality, then it wouldn't need the universe to begin with.

Not to mention that would make existence into a programmed entity designed to find an answer. If it already knows the answers it wouldn't be needed, if it wanted to find answers, it would not build something by what it already knows [a program]. Therefore there are no question in the fundamental nature of reality, it is just a world, and questions and answers may happen in it, but are not it.
The truth is naked,
Once it is written it is lost.
Genius is the result of the entire product of man.
The cosmic insignificance of humanity, shows the cosmic insignificance of a universe without humanity.
the fully painted picture, reveals an empty canvas
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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:30 am

I don't see anything going wrong.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby waechter418 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:04 pm

The quest itself seems to be the problem - Buddhists, Zen and Taoist thinkers claim that the answers are given, or Selfknowledge manifests, when abandoning the quest (questions)
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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:46 pm

The universe and cosmos is either a cosmic random accident or it has always existed being an unsolvable mysterious enigma of phenomena. God and religion are irrelevant.

Purpose is what we make of it. There is no central grand order or specific achievement (purpose) to be unlocked and realized.
Civilization is a ship of fools headed to a one way destination of catastrophe and annihilation, its many captains populated by asshole-idiots that all agree it is unsinkable.

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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby waechter418 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:04 pm

Mictlantecuhtli wrote:The universe and cosmos is either a cosmic random accident or it has always existed being an unsolvable mysterious enigma of phenomena. God and religion are irrelevant.

Purpose is what we make of it. There is no central grand order or specific achievement (purpose) to be unlocked and realized.


YES SIR !!!
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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:49 pm

waechter418 wrote:It seems that since we are aware of ourselves we have been trying to find out who, why & where we are and that many of our religions, cosmologies, philosophies and sciences developed around this quest.

The answers differ widely, see for example neurologists, Buddha, Hegel, astrophysicists, Lao Tse or Christian fundamentalists - yet each insists to have the right answer, which is understandable, after all, it is not easy to admit that the quest has been in vain and increases our confusion.

What is going wrong?


Maybe nothing is going wrong. Maybe it just is as it is.

Perhaps if we indulge in thinking that we perhaps do not have the right answers, we might have to turn around, walk back down that path and take another, different path.
We each follow our own path upwards or downwards. Mine may be different than yours. Not better just different and more harmonious for me though perhaps even more the struggle for me.

Everything is built on perception. Different kinds of bricks for different kinds of edifices.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby barbarianhorde » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:42 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Not everyone who thinks they are right actually is

says you
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
~ Владимир Ильич Ульянов Ленин

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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:36 pm

We are involved in these three experiences: Being, becoming, and belonging. How we express what it is like to be in each experience provides the answers to who, where and why questions.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby waechter418 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:26 pm

The questions dissolve with being Oneself
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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:03 pm

So long as there are conflicts among constituents of the human trinity--Mind, Body, Soul-- there will be questions about who and what we are.
So long ad Ego determines personality, the above conflicts will flourish.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:49 pm

waechter418 wrote:It seems that since we are aware of ourselves we have been trying to find out who, why & where we are and that many of our religions, cosmologies, philosophies and sciences developed around this quest.

The answers differ widely, see for example neurologists, Buddha, Hegel, astrophysicists, Lao Tse or Christian fundamentalists - yet each insists to have the right answer, which is understandable, after all, it is not easy to admit that the quest has been in vain and increases our confusion.

What is going wrong?


I do not see the quest as being in vain. It is all a process and is still going on even though at times it stands on one leg and has the vision of only one eye.

We seem to forget though that we are not all peas in the same pod, not all sardines in the same sardine can.
Instead of furthering our thoughts, observations and experiences, we automatically give in to those beliefs which comfort us and give us warm feelings about our lives.

We forget that as individual peas and sardines we all see life differently, from different perspectives and lenses.
I don't think that there is only ONE truth. Is everything in the Universe just ONE ~~ one kind of species, one kind of galaxy, one kind of snowflake, one kind of tree, one kind of day or night, one kind of smile or laughter, ad continnum?
Is the most valid of truths one which does the least amount of harm, leads to positive results, benefits mankind in an ongoing way and benefits one's self in both a moral and ethical way?
I don't know. What do you think?

We fear that our beliefs will crumble into dust if we question them and if we have that experience, then what must we do ~~ we can do as Nietzsche suggested we must do -- turn those beliefs upside down, inside out, sideways, backwards, forward (lol-paraphrased).
We are afraid to live within Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason. (John Keats)
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby waechter418 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:36 pm

wise answer - thank you !
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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby Meno_ » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:39 pm

Even if we'll never know, it doesent matter, because all points, ways of being in this world meet at some point, everything is connected in a humongous circuitry , and even that is fleeting in the dizzying whirl of constant change.

The comforting thought is, that however large it gets, it can get larger, where size is only conceivable as to how far away or near an observer gets.

Very very far away, things seem to be frozen, and are very small, in fact they can be very big traveling at very fast velocities.

It all is a matter of perception, and that is why life, to be able to conceive it bit by bit. We are witness to Nothingness and there is Nothingness, because there is always testament.

St. Anselm was right all along!
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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby surreptitious57 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:09 pm

Arc wrote:
We fear that our beliefs will crumble into dust if we question them and if we have that experience then what must we do

I can only say what I do which is not to hold onto ideas too much in case they turn out not to be true. Even if they
are they do not matter in the grand scheme of things. And so one should still not be holding on too tightly to them
Any Stoic or Nihilist knows that everything they are is merely ephemeral and one should therefore not fear oblivion
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby waechter418 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:08 pm

A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN


Yes brothers - lets fly !


MIND IS (OUGHT TO BE) WITHOUT GRAVITY
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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:12 pm

waechter418 wrote:A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN


Yes brothers - lets fly !


Are there to be no sisters along for the ride? I have wings.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Who- why- where are we ?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:20 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Arc wrote:
We fear that our beliefs will crumble into dust if we question them and if we have that experience then what must we do

I can only say what I do which is not to hold onto ideas too much in case they turn out not to be true. Even if they
are they do not matter in the grand scheme of things. And so one should still not be holding on too tightly to them
Any Stoic or Nihilist knows that everything they are is merely ephemeral and one should therefore not fear oblivion



Well, maybe in one sense they are good and important depending on how they guide your life - in a good way.
But you are right also that in the grand scheme of things, at the end of the day, well, I'm not sure here. They may matter a bit. lol
But I agree that we ought not to be holding onto them too tightly - but loosely -- or not even that. Just to be the skeptic, the agnostic.
At the same time, is it right and true to hold some things as truth, even if they are our own truth and they do not interfere with the truth of others or harm them?

Being stoic is a good thing. Being a nihilist though, that would depend on how pessimistic that nihilist is.
I like to think of myself as a more refined nihilist. lol
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
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