do you think that Caesar was happy?

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Re: do you think that Caesar was happy?

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:23 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:if not, why?
If so, what does that say about morality of happiness?

What are morals for except means to get happy?


You make a good point.
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Re: do you think that Caesar was happy?

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:46 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:if not, why?
If so, what does that say about morality of happiness?

What are morals for except means to get happy?


I don't understand the relationship between morals and happiness, Jakob.

If morals are a means to happiness, and ONLY a means to happiness, can they actually then be called morals? I'm not sure. I'm just asking.
It just seems to me then that that so-called moral person is more or less just a hedonist, just as a mystic to me in a sense is also a hedonist. At the end of the day, is the hedonist a happy person or do they just want more more more more more.

You conflate physical pleasure and happiness, which is exactly what the hedonist does.
Happiness is broader.
What makes me very happy is to conquer and idea, to crack it open, to advance human thinking on it. That happiness shapes for a good part my morality.

As far as Caesar goes, he was probably happier than some of us and less happy than others.

Do you think that he was a happy camper when he was in Cleopatra's arms or might he have been just thinking about his next conquest. It may seem funny but who could know the mind of Caesar. lol

He was surely enjoying her as a prize. I doubt the sex was very good, but who can know.
I take some stock in the rumours of Marc Anthonies superior qualities as a lover.

Caesars happiness came from political conquest, we can deduce that from his morality. We can construct an idea of his morality from his choices and preferences (whatever else is morality but the type of choices we consistently make?) and we can see his great political happiness in his choice of Octavian as heir. Can you see why I recognize happiness there? It relates directly to my notion of courage and the original afterlife.
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Re: do you think that Caesar was happy?

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:58 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:if not, why?
If so, what does that say about morality of happiness?

What are morals for except means to get happy?


I don't understand the relationship between morals and happiness, Jakob.

If morals are a means to happiness, and ONLY a means to happiness, can they actually then be called morals? I'm not sure. I'm just asking.
It just seems to me then that that so-called moral person is more or less just a hedonist, just as a mystic to me in a sense is also a hedonist. At the end of the day, is the hedonist a happy person or do they just want more more more more more.

You conflate physical pleasure and happiness, which is exactly what the hedonist does.
Happiness is broader.
What makes me very happy is to conquer and idea, to crack it open, to advance human thinking on it. That happiness shapes for a good part my morality.


Has nothing to do with whether someone is a hedonist.

My robotic analysis indicates that happiness is a form of pleasure.

If conquering planets is your thing, that is also a form of pleasure for you.
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Re: do you think that Caesar was happy?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:19 pm

If conquering planets is your thing, that is also a form of pleasure for you.

Granted.
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Re: do you think that Caesar was happy?

Postby Xunzian » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:12 am

Octavian seemed pretty content. Even the slanderous stuff seems to suggest someone who is basically "OK" with himself, so I'll call a win for him.

It's been decades (how strange it is that I've lived long enough to talk about not just one but decades plural) since I read Gaul and I can't separate my feelings for the text from my feelings for the time but Julius seemed very petty and unpleasant. It reads like a bad job interview. I knew he was a traitor but he was ~*~my friend~*~. Oh no, we're not "retreating" I'm just tricking them into thinking I'm retreating and this is genius because there happens to be a bunch of food we can loot while I'm running away. I'm going to throw a big old tantrum and berate my troops but they were so ^_^ INSPIRED ^_^ by my words.

I get that media, etc. have improved a lot since then. But he came off as a whiny try hard to me. Dude was not a happy guy, is what I am saying.
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Re: do you think that Caesar was happy?

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:50 am

Xunzian wrote:Octavian seemed pretty content. Even the slanderous stuff seems to suggest someone who is basically "OK" with himself, so I'll call a win for him.

It's been decades (how strange it is that I've lived long enough to talk about not just one but decades plural) since I read Gaul and I can't separate my feelings for the text from my feelings for the time but Julius seemed very petty and unpleasant. It reads like a bad job interview. I knew he was a traitor but he was ~*~my friend~*~. Oh no, we're not "retreating" I'm just tricking them into thinking I'm retreating and this is genius because there happens to be a bunch of food we can loot while I'm running away. I'm going to throw a big old tantrum and berate my troops but they were so ^_^ INSPIRED ^_^ by my words.

I get that media, etc. have improved a lot since then. But he came off as a whiny try hard to me. Dude was not a happy guy, is what I am saying.

Fuck, thats a good approach.
Yes, I can see your angle clearly.

Caesar was definitely overzealous where it concerned his image, and completely obsessed where it concerned his glory.

I would annoyingly counter that he simply needed to do this to get where he did get - that he was happy an yet still had to play the petty micromanaging self-propagandist, since it was Rome, after all, and you had people like Cato and Cicero to contend with. But Im not entirely convinced that you are entirely wrong.

It is known that he was cruel even for a roman field-commander. I am not clear at all on how cruelty relates to happiness.
I dont tend to follow Nietzsche here, as the cruelties Ive witnessed in my life have been rather the result of extreme wretchedness and self-loathing than of joyful indifference.
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