Moderator: MagsJ
jonquil wrote:Consider the notion of "time" in regards to mental health and the system designed to "help" people with so-called "mental problems." There seems to be a meme in place that is based on getting people functional fast, to keep them on the job or living in their square peg world doing whatever it is they do there. Hence the ideas about brain dysfunction or chemical imbalance or neurological roots to the problem, with a diagnosis and a cocktail of drugs designed for that diagnosis. The DSM is now so fat that you'd practically need a forklift to move it.
People have forgotten that each of us lives in a social and economic nexus, one that is very oppressive and requires a good deal of conditioning in order to make us adaptable to it. The "sane" people are the ones who have been able to adapt and become hardcore sociopaths to a good degree, while the "insane" ones are those who have not been able to adapt to a very insane system. It's a total clusterfuck for sure.
turtle wrote:psychiatry is a discipline that stands right in between neurology and psychology.... psychiatry is no longer here....it has divided into neurology and psychology......as far as treatment we have the quick fix.....the system that pays the money is not interested in cure and prevention.....the system is interested in illness not health.....
Ierrellus wrote:Good posts, all. Now, where I agree or question:
1. The DSM IV appears to be expanding to include every human tic as an aberration. Pharmaceutical companies can thereby exploit the glut of diagnoses and profit from specialized drugs.
Ierrellus wrote:2. While I have a gut feeling that we do not live in a "sane" society, the feeling suggest I know what sanity is. It may include types of inhumane behavior I detest.
Ierrellus wrote:3. I don't think therapies go far enough to address the effects of diagnosis on self-image. For many a diagnosis translates as "DEFECTIVE HUMAN."
Ierrellus wrote:4. I don't see this as a political issue. Politicians don't control one's conscience; maybe the media does. Power and control may owe much to survival competitions; not to some governing "body".
Ierrellus wrote:Jonquil,
You sound a lot like Orwell.
IMHO, the future of any decent therapy for so-called "mental" illnesses depends on an accurate consideration of what comprises a human sense of reality. And, you are right that social, ignorant religious or political agendas make this consideration almost impossible.
I do know persons whose "minds" are in states that make them want to harm themselves or others. In these instances the "chemical fix" proves somewhat effective.
Ierrellus wrote:Jonquil,
You sound a lot like Orwell.
IMHO, the future of any decent therapy for so-called "mental" illnesses depends on an accurate consideration of what comprises a human sense of reality. And, you are right that social, ignorant religious or political agendas make this consideration almost impossible.
I do know persons whose "minds" are in states that make them want to harm themselves or others. In these instances the "chemical fix" proves somewhat effective.
statiktech wrote:Ierrellus wrote:Jonquil,
You sound a lot like Orwell.
IMHO, the future of any decent therapy for so-called "mental" illnesses depends on an accurate consideration of what comprises a human sense of reality. And, you are right that social, ignorant religious or political agendas make this consideration almost impossible.
I do know persons whose "minds" are in states that make them want to harm themselves or others. In these instances the "chemical fix" proves somewhat effective.
That is interesting too in that it kind of begs the question as to what aspect of a person's reality has been compromised. Most of the observable symptoms we experience are manifestations of that vulnerability, but employed in such a way that distracts from, or even defends, it. However, if we can somehow determine what, neurologically or psychologically, has been compromised in any definitive sense, we might be able to infer why, and eventually how. But how do we develop a universal model of an 'uncompromising' mind, or sense of reality?
In my own opinion, most human beings experience a compromised sense of reality, and possibly on a regular basis. So now we focus our efforts on determining the severity and frequency of involuntary or compulsive reactions to those experiences. The more we treat the symptoms on a wider scale, the less likely we are to ever determine what causes them. Therefore, I honestly think psychiatry still has value insofar as it is a means of analyzing irrational behaviors that may have no logical connection to a cause. The connection could very well be one of entirely subjective, abstract associations, for instance. I'm not sure psychology and neuroscience can ever account for all possible specific cases, though they probably will supersede psychiatry in the development of general principles. Neuroscience seems like an inadequate replacement for psychiatry in terms of behavioral treatment.
Ierrellus wrote:Stat and Liz,
Your posts make sense to me. Let me give an example of a person I dearly love who has been diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic. Using the net to get information about this, I found a decent site. I think it was from the Mayo(SIC) Clinic. The advice was that one should not try to judge or counter the sufferer's hallucinations and delusions. These are the person's current reality.
Lacan finds these "disorders" exemplified in how one uses language. I don't know enough about that to comment. What I do know is that when I comfort my friend with hugs and attention, she often gets back to the type of reality I'm used to. IMHO, a caring psychotherapy, not that from a doctor watching his clock, can affect the disorder in positive ways.
As to a norm for the sense of reality, I don't think any such animal exists. But there does exist states of mind from which harm to self or others becomes possible. These must be addressed.
Ierrellus wrote:Stat and Liz,
Your posts make sense to me. Let me give an example of a person I dearly love who has been diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic. Using the net to get information about this, I found a decent site. I think it was from the Mayo(SIC) Clinic. The advice was that one should not try to judge or counter the sufferer's hallucinations and delusions. These are the person's current reality.
Lacan finds these "disorders" exemplified in how one uses language. I don't know enough about that to comment. What I do know is that when I comfort my friend with hugs and attention, she often gets back to the type of reality I'm used to. IMHO, a caring psychotherapy, not that from a doctor watching his clock, can affect the disorder in positive ways.
As to a norm for the sense of reality, I don't think any such animal exists. But there does exist states of mind from which harm to self or others becomes possible. These must be addressed.
jonquil wrote:Ierrellus wrote:Stat and Liz,
Your posts make sense to me. Let me give an example of a person I dearly love who has been diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic. Using the net to get information about this, I found a decent site. I think it was from the Mayo(SIC) Clinic. The advice was that one should not try to judge or counter the sufferer's hallucinations and delusions. These are the person's current reality.
Lacan finds these "disorders" exemplified in how one uses language. I don't know enough about that to comment. What I do know is that when I comfort my friend with hugs and attention, she often gets back to the type of reality I'm used to. IMHO, a caring psychotherapy, not that from a doctor watching his clock, can affect the disorder in positive ways.
As to a norm for the sense of reality, I don't think any such animal exists. But there does exist states of mind from which harm to self or others becomes possible. These must be addressed.
Notice: hugs and attention... not drugs and pseudo-science claptrap invented by industries for profit. My own healing modality of choice is called "Breathwork." It's fantastic, and of course involves lots of love and physical closeness as the vibes move up the chakras and the feelings start moving. It's the best method for accessing birth and very early memories that I know of, btw.
lizbethrose wrote:Ierrellus wrote:Stat and Liz,
Your posts make sense to me. Let me give an example of a person I dearly love who has been diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic. Using the net to get information about this, I found a decent site. I think it was from the Mayo(SIC) Clinic. The advice was that one should not try to judge or counter the sufferer's hallucinations and delusions. These are the person's current reality.
Lacan finds these "disorders" exemplified in how one uses language. I don't know enough about that to comment. What I do know is that when I comfort my friend with hugs and attention, she often gets back to the type of reality I'm used to. IMHO, a caring psychotherapy, not that from a doctor watching his clock, can affect the disorder in positive ways.
As to a norm for the sense of reality, I don't think any such animal exists. But there does exist states of mind from which harm to self or others becomes possible. These must be addressed.
In the meantime, be very, very careful. I'm not a doctor, but, as a person, I'd say the personality, and person, you hold is extremely delicate. If you're not trained in any of the fields mentioned so far, keep on hugging and holding, but rely on the docs. In paranoid schizophrenia, from what I've read, therapy will include drugs, simply to reach a state wherein the patient can accept other therapies. From what I've read, the disease is the result of a combination of factors, from genetic through environmental--which would suggest the triumvirate of specialists I've mentioned. I'm trying to be very careful with what I say because I'm not qualified to give medical advice--nor is this site.
Paranoid schizophrenia may be manageable. I'm not sure it's totally curable. Drug therapy may dampen the delusions, but that diminishes the person's idea of reality, doesn't it? Would that contribute to the disease? You've already distanced yourself from your loved one by 'intellectualizing' the illness. People prone to philosophy do that--I know I do.
But I've found that there comes a time when 'intellectualizing' is, oftentimes, no more than a defense mechanism, which we all need.
Thanks for the good advice. I do research on my friend's condition and listen to ideas given here not to intellectualize, but to find out how to help her without being invasive. I would ask nothing of her that would compromise her integrity. The meds do stabilize, but I cannot believe that she is doomed to a lifetime of delusions and hallucinations that have to be kept at bay by drugs. I would not advise her to get off this regimen; but, I've found that honest affection can heal. We're an elderly, pot-bellied couple, finding comfort in mutual caring.
lizbethrose wrote:Thanks for the good advice. I do research on my friend's condition and listen to ideas given here not to intellectualize, but to find out how to help her without being invasive. I would ask nothing of her that would compromise her integrity. The meds do stabilize, but I cannot believe that she is doomed to a lifetime of delusions and hallucinations that have to be kept at bay by drugs. I would not advise her to get off this regimen; but, I've found that honest affection can heal. We're an elderly, pot-bellied couple, finding comfort in mutual caring.
You're welcome. You're a caring person, obviously, so it might be difficult for you to accept--there are some mental conditions that can't be meliorated by anything other than drugs as part of a treatment package. I believe this is true with manic-depressive disorder (Bi-polar disorder) as well as paranoid schizophrenia. Think of it like this, a child with diabetes faces the rest of her/his life dependent of insulin because of a defect in the pituitary gland. Is there onus to being a diabetic?
Honest affection can help but there are some things it can't heal.
Last piece of advice and then I'll put up my shingle. You found the Mayo Clinic web site which is a good one for a lot of different things. Go back to the site and see if it lists any support groups in your area for care-givers of people with paranoid schizophrenia. It should; but, if not, Google "support groups for care-givers in (your area.) You need to learn what other people in your circumstances have learned.
There's no reason why your friend can't lead a 'normal' life, if she stays with her docs, her meds and you.
lizbethrose wrote:You're welcome. You're a caring person, obviously, so it might be difficult for you to accept--there are some mental conditions that can't be meliorated by anything other than drugs as part of a treatment package. I believe this is true with manic-depressive disorder (Bi-polar disorder) as well as paranoid schizophrenia. Think of it like this, a child with diabetes faces the rest of her/his life dependent of insulin because of a defect in the pituitary gland. Is there onus to being a diabetic?
Honest affection can help but there are some things it can't heal.
Last piece of advice and then I'll put up my shingle. You found the Mayo Clinic web site which is a good one for a lot of different things. Go back to the site and see if it lists any support groups in your area for care-givers of people with paranoid schizophrenia. It should; but, if not, Google "support groups for care-givers in (your area.) You need to learn what other people in your circumstances have learned.
There's no reason why your friend can't lead a 'normal' life, if she stays with her docs, her meds and you.
statiktech wrote:lizbethrose wrote:You're welcome. You're a caring person, obviously, so it might be difficult for you to accept--there are some mental conditions that can't be meliorated by anything other than drugs as part of a treatment package. I believe this is true with manic-depressive disorder (Bi-polar disorder) as well as paranoid schizophrenia. Think of it like this, a child with diabetes faces the rest of her/his life dependent of insulin because of a defect in the pituitary gland. Is there onus to being a diabetic?
Honest affection can help but there are some things it can't heal.
Last piece of advice and then I'll put up my shingle. You found the Mayo Clinic web site which is a good one for a lot of different things. Go back to the site and see if it lists any support groups in your area for care-givers of people with paranoid schizophrenia. It should; but, if not, Google "support groups for care-givers in (your area.) You need to learn what other people in your circumstances have learned.
There's no reason why your friend can't lead a 'normal' life, if she stays with her docs, her meds and you.
Excellent, excellent response Liz. I had a whole reply to Irrellus formulated in my head until I came across this post of yours. I can't possibly say it any better.
Irrellus,
Your friend's condition seems very similar to that of my sister. I was in elementary school when her symptoms began to develop as such that she became a danger to herself. My family fell apart, she was transferred around to at least half a dozen hospitals and "care" facilities, and I was essentially left in the dark all the while. My dad refused to believe her problem was beyond her control, mom was lost, and a few doctors told them, quite frankly, they couldn't [or didn't know how to] treat her. Anyway, to keep things short, my sister was in desperate need of both love and medication. Love saved her life, but medication gave it back to her. I can't put it any clearer than that. She is the reason I come chime in on these threads suggesting drugs are the devil. Some drugs are over prescribed, some are abused, some probably shouldn't exist at all -- I can agree with all of that. However, for some people a reliance on medication is not a prison sentence. It is just another consequence of living their lives, like eating and sleeping. I don't know why, but that fact seems much more difficult to accept for people on the outside looking in, than the people who actually experience the difference. The trade-off can be difficult sometimes because certain medications, specifically anti-psychotics, have a very sedating effect that disagrees with some people. I just believe that some drugs, for certain cases, can come as nothing short of a blessing. My sister lives on her own with a husband and kid now, and is probably happier than I am. She still takes her meds, too. My only advice to you, as you seem to have a good head about you already, is to find and stick with a doctor you can dare to trust. There are good and bad doctors, like anything else, but there are some who actually care. If you ask me, a pill is a small price to pay for a drastically improved quality of life. It just doesn't seem right to regard the drugs as a crutch in every circumstance. Nobody should ever feel guilty or less-than-'normal' for wanting to experience life as their loved ones do.
turtle wrote:i am not up-to-date on causes of schizophrenia....
what is the latest thinking.....how is research going.....
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