Black People Mentally Lower

I have seen and read this study before, and as someone who is half black I’m not really that opposed to it’s legitimacy, though I’m certainly not ‘agreeing’ by any stretch. Not yet at least.

I will say this though: Black people seem to have a sort of unorthodox intelligence which may not be as magnified in the statistical analysis, but I believe it to be there intuitively nonetheless.

There are ways of phrasing a conversation like this to make people more likely to respond without being overly emotional.

I don’t see it becoming a ‘big issue soon’. Facts themselves may not be racist, but people who interpret and use them to develop social policy can be. And facts don’t dwell in some realm beyond the subjectivity, the flawed intepretations and the questionable motives of human beings.

I also wouldn’t hold my breath about this being ‘scientificaly proven’, there are just too many variables that would make such an interpretation subject to question. I don’t have a problem with scientists doing the research itself, as long as it’s conducted by people who know what they’re doing and know how to read their results and what those results do and DON’T mean. However, it never stops there, of course. There are always scabrous insects waiting under their rocks for opportunities to assuage their own feelings of insecurity or powerlessness, personal failures, hatred and frustrations by jumping all over researchers’ statements which they can construe to allege the ‘inferiority’ of others. Never mind that interpretations of study findings are always going to have some subjective element, always going to require a context, and that even really smart humans are still flawed in that way. You’d think someone of this guy’s stature and experience would get that…and would thus understand the importance of framing his remarks carefully, with consideration of the social and political implications. If there wasn’t so much evidence of racism in our history, then perhaps he could operate more as though he lived in a vacuum. But he should’ve known better. Who knows…prejudice is an emotional thing, and not only dependent on intellect. It’s possible that he’s always been prejudiced AND it’s possible that he isn’t, but just chose his words poorly.

As for the basis of the remarks, I’d be surprised that an entire race of people could be characterized so generally in terms of IQ. For that matter, there are relatively few people of pure African ancestry living outside of Africa (certainly that’s the case in the US) so of what use to a modern world is an analysis with implications regarding a racial construct? If he means specifically the people of Africa, then I wonder if what he ascribes to ‘genetic’ basis could also have to do with the perceived results of differences between cultures, including economics, education, etc. Also, IQ as an intelligence measure indicates superiority or inferiority in what way? There’s been a lot of criticism of the effectiveness of “IQ” measurements in determining particular abilities or as some sort of indicator of success in life. (And what is ‘intelligence’ anyway…how about ‘olfactory IQ’ which would place dogs above humans, lol) For that matter, ‘success’ is relative; different cultures view success in different ways. In any event, people with high IQ’s end up being jobless slackers or criminals; people with average IQ’s end up making great contributions to humanity.

One thing that this guy demonstrates…high intelligence of a particular type apparently doesn’t preclude either bias or poor judgment. But then again, maybe he was taken out of context by a media always eager to feed some hungry ghosts.

Another boring thread: about stats that supposedly show how inferior blacks are - I am brown: does that include me :laughing:

I agree with Old_Gobbo’s point about there being different kinds of intellect, and a lot of black/brown people seem to have this: which does not show up on standard testing procedures - an innate intelligence: if you will…

What’s your IQ saying, Tortoise? How’s your innate intelligence: that you had from birth? don’t be shy: say it how it is…

Tests often don’t really proove anything in terms of how smart one is.

…ditto, but I Do happen to know what my IQ is :wink:

…it’s nice to feel normal/average sometimes: by being around others like one’s-self…

I was a high achiever at school, but my first cousin of the same age: was as dumb as fuck - go figure that one out??? :laughing:

I could start a thread that berates Caucasians, but that’d just bore me: with it’s eay jibes at others… but each to their own :sunglasses:

People often equate I.Q. with wisdom when it is not.

I.Q. simply measures analytical ability. It does not factor in E.Q. and how fear and need affect this analysis.

Sometimes knowledge is mistaken for intelligence, as in the case of sophists and academics, but most often courage is discounted as an important part of clarity.

You can be dumber than average if you lack the courage to accept the conclusions of your analysis and find clever ways to escape them.

…we are the sum of our parts / achievements: so they have some bearing on our outlook.

This came up in a sports studies lesson that I had when I was back at college, and I belive they were on the right track. The argument was based mainly on physcial prowess ie running speeds, but did bring the intellegance argument into it aswell. The logic was this:

Studies show that on average black people run faster and are less intelegant. However after closer examination of the facts there is a closer correlation between other genetics rather than just flesh pigmentaion.
Ie people of half cast races who had families that hailed from different areas seemed to have the same limitations and disadvantages from cirtain areas. To further their point they used examples of studying different family lines within the black communitys, and subsequently found that some families were on of higher intellegance on average than the average white man. Also they brought up the point that if skin pigmentation affects intelegence then the highly intellegant memebrs of the balck community would be considered super human if they were white.

So the conclusion was this, intellegance is impacted by where we come from. And where we come from has a large impact on our skin pigmintation also. There is no evidence to support the idea that a different colour skin in itself makes someone less intelegant

It is also worth pointing out that there has been a long-known correlation between nutrition and intelligence (and height, which is why you sometimes here that tall people are smarter). Given the starvation conditions that are occurring over much of Africa, no wonder they are intellectually stunted. If you’ve ever fasted for a few days, you know what that does to your thought-processes! Also, in America (where a lot of the “Bell Curve”-type studies have taken place) most blacks are in urban areas where things like fresh fruit are more difficult to come by, and this is compounded by economic factors (the average black household makes less than the average white household, and junk food is cheaper than real food due to corn subsidies), as well as cultural factors (for example, black mothers are more likely to bottle feed their children than white mothers not to mention that academic intelligence isn’t valued in many parts of the inner-city).

All of these factors impact intelligence much more than melanin content.

So what to do if these statistics are real? Vitamin subsidies and all that is a step in the right direction (since peeling back corn subsidies ain’t happenin’).

And if blacks were shown to be intellectual inferior from a genetic standpoint (which I doubt), I don’t really think it would matter than much since within the black population there would still be the normal bell-curve distribution of intelligence, just with the mean shifted to the left. That doesn’t really affect individuals since their position on that curve is unknown, so treating all blacks as intellectually inferior doesn’t accomplish much.

I mean, really, how smart does one have to be to work most office jobs? I’m not saying intelligence doesn’t help, but most jobs are variations on fairly menial tasks. If you can be a car mechanic, you can be an M.D. – they are pretty much the same job the only difference is that medical school itself is artificially difficult (really just brute-force memorization which you don’t need to be a genius to do) and expensive.

Too much value is placed on intelligence, when it rarely comes into use.

There are dumb fucks: from all racial backgrounds, and ditto: for bright sparks (I should know: I’m one of them ;o)

I put my own race down: if the need arises, and I can only suggest that you all do likewise: as some calls aint yours to make: save for your own…

What other races do: is none of MY business / why should it be - why make other people’s business yours??? If they harm society/tax resources, etc. then that is a different case: which can be addressed through policies and laws…

In the UK: all school children are given a half-pint of milk during their morning break: to address any nutritional issues / keep them focused in class - I hated the milk, and used to pour mine down the drains :wink:

Intelligence is what IQ tests measure. Except that it’s not. There are many kinds of intelligence - many talents, abilites, attitudes, values, educational opportunities - there is a very long list of factors that make a person “smart” or not. Pattern recognition is very useful. It’s not all there is to brainpower. The ramifications of “proving” that black people aren’t “smart” can be anything that we make them. Which means that they can be nothing. IQ tests are very limited, by design, in what they measure.

With all the problems in this world some Genius had to waste time and money on this study? No wonder the world is screwy. Humans have no priorities. What a waste, the money and time could have been better spent on resolving problems not creating new ones.

…perhaps it’s a case of belittling other races to boost the other’s self esteem :confused: :unamused:

What it is is politics, and a nexus for another host of taxpayer-financed research grants aimed at giving teachers and social workers more jobs.

…not at the expense of other people, people! [-X

…only for those who have to tow the common line, and tread the common path

It is surely how the research grant-writing game works. Get out there and make some headlines - scare some people!

I wonder how much geenhouse gas has been created scaring the shit out of people about global warming.

Beaurocracy exists… and?

First of course, Mr. Watson is a chemist and expert in DNA, what does this have to do with the topic?

Nothing. I strongly doubt if he has more qualifications to comment on this matter than I do.

Here are the words that kicked off the controversy:

“The 79-year-old geneticist said he was “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really.”

Hmm? So, since much of our civilization is derived from Eygpt, and Ancient Eygpt was a Black Kingdom, did they have a problem with government?

For the sake of argument, let us concede that there are differences in intelligence between that artificial construct known as “races.” For that matter, aren’t there those who hold that woman are less intelligent than men?

But let us concede both points for the sake of argument. Let us say that Blacks and Woman average four or five IQ points below European Whites. What does that mean when one realises that the differences between individuals in ONE race are far, far greater than the alledged differences between races as groups?

When a racist looks to hire someone for the position of garbage collector, if a Black Einstein walked in for the job, he would be turned down.

None of us are “equals.” There are people far more intelligent than I, and people far dumber than I. What a just society requires is equal opportunity for everyone to find their own level.

If there ARE differences between people or sexes, that is totally irrelevant to the point.

And of course, as I’ve pointed out, Mr. Watson, who apparentely knows nothing of history, has put his foot deeply down his throat and is being justifiably castigated for his stupid remarks.

Dave