"Multiple personality disorder"

I would love to here from people about how they feel about Multiple personality disorders. Or rather I would like to know who believes i them, and who doesn’t. From personal expieriences I do and have to believe in it.

Yes, I do…why? I’ve never personally met one, but my parents have treated them and seem to be fairly convinced they are not screwing around. They’re smart people, I trust them.

Oh I was just wanting to see what people thought about it. because my mother has it and I want to really talk to someone that doesn’t believe they exist. any ways,Rafajafar who are smart people and who do you trust?

My parents are smart and I trust them. I don’t want to bring this topic up, though. If you wanna know the answer to that one, make another post.

what do you mean?

Jamie,

I was institutionalized when I was twelve years old. The irony is that I went into the hospital “sane” and came out “crazy.” What originally instigated this event was my behavior in school. I didn’t pay attention in class, clowned around and was a great disruption for the other students. I did not exhibit what behaviors might incline a parent or therapist to incarcerate a teenager, critical problems like drug use, stealing, fighting, or suicide attempts were never my problem. This is usually the criteria for institutionalizing a person, none of which I had, but ironically developed within the system.

It began as an evaluation, which, normally, one would assume, would end after a thirty day period in which the doctors would determine that I was not emotionally handicapped, sick, or disturbed. Two weeks into it, I attempted to escape by climbing up into the ceiling and exiting through a air duct or something, which never happened because I fell through the ceiling tiles directly over the nursing station while all the doctors were having a meeting…CRASH!! Busted on the spot. Thirty days in the hole, pal. That is, seclusion level 2. Yeah, the padded room, you know the deal. Anyway, what happened was remarkable. The system created a monster out of me, and by God that’s what they got.

I became violent, destructive, and apathetic. I was involved in a classic power struggle with the administration. “Fuck you, I will not take the drugs, I will not talk to the shrink, I will not clean my room and I certainly won’t participate in the therapy program,” I declared. “You can’t keep me in here for ever…oh, and you WILL LOSE in the end you fucking white coats,” was my battle cry.

As this event evolved, I developed various personality traits that the doctors reported to be schizophrenic. Violent mood swings where one moment I was throwing chairs at the staff members, and in the next, quite and alone in the corner refusing to talk for weeks on end. Of course this behavior might appear as a sign of such a sickness, but what is important is the fact that I willingly chose and was in complete control of my behavior. From the outside, I looked like I was terribly sick, but I wasn’t. I was playing a game. AHAHAHA!!!

The question of “personality disorders” is very complex. I am skeptical about the diagnosis and feel that in more cases than not, the actual people who are reputed to have this kind of “mental illness,” in fact, do not. What unifies a personality into a complete “self” is really only the ability to remember one’s acts. If one can recall making a choice and/or choosing a course of action deliberately, then one is certainly “at the wheel” and not a compilation of several “selves” who emerge haphazardously.

In short, “personality disorder” means simply: you are not behaving like I want you too, like a “normal” person, like a “sane” person, like a predictable person.

de’trop Thank you for your reply. I really liked hereing another story.

De’trop. Some people go to prison and learn how to be a criminal, and you go to the hospital to learn how to be crazy; very intriguing. Great story.

I have known a couple of people who were bipolar (manic depressive). They use lithium to treat it, just like they do for schizophrenia. As a result, I too have to believe in multiple personality disorders.

You are convinced rather quickly, Marshall.

“Multiple personality,” the terms themselves must be unpacked.

I propose that only a “single” self is possible and that that self is the totality of all experiences that that person was/is conscious of. To say that one person has another personality is like removing them from that body and saying that they can have experiences of a different body. The self is a compilation of past actions and future intentions which are orchestrated as the totality of the “self,” and the self is limited to the physical body. It is one thing to admit that we have yet to fully understand the various dimensions of the single “self,” and another thing to propose that there are “many” selves in one body.

I say this from experience because while incarcerated I exhibited extemely unpredictable behavior that was interpretated as mildly schizophrenic, and I was forced to take many drugs. The point is that I was not “out of control,” or “invaded by my evil twin.”

What I think we have here between myself and the current medical paradigm is different use of the terms “personality” and “self.”

De’Trop ventured:

It seems to me that you are equating ‘personality’ with ‘body’, but perhaps i have misapprehended you. (Recall that persona originally mean’t mask. We are not equivalent to our masks, we are much more than even the sum of those masks.) A manic person is a much more different person than a depressed person. In what sense do they remain a ‘single self’ if not through the body?

The memory, Marshall, is the connection between immediate conscious surface awarness and the body it pertains to. The memory is a physiological feature of the brain and therefore it is physical. For example, you can picture images of past experiences in your head because each bit of information is represented by a neuron. Sets of neurons fire in coordination with one another to produce cognition. The memory is like a storage facility for individual sets of neurons. How consciousness emerges from these transmissions is a matter of metaphysics, but it is probably still produced by them even if this remains a mystery in science.

Now, if the “self” exists, it must exist as a state where a subject is aware of what was experienced a moment ago, for if he is only at that point an accumulation of past events, “he,” as a self, can only distinguish itself by accessing what just happened, however infinitesimal the moment. If, for example, we were to strike a man in the head everytime he regained his memory, putting him back into a state of amnesia, and did so consecutively for ever, “he” would never exist. That’s absurd, you say? Hey man, its only hypothetical. But it does suggest that the only possible “self” that could be experienced by that subject would require some amount of memory to ascertain the knowledge that one exists and is “this and that,” in “this moment and that moment,” and can safely say “I am.”

Now wouldn’t a multiple personality be configured the same way? How can three “selves” access the same memory? I can understand maybe jumping bodies across the room and entering anothers mind to access their memory bank, but the possibility of unique persons emerging from one distinct set of memories is like saying that at the time of the event that occured to provide the memory, there was more than one experience happening.

Hmm…

The memory, Marshall, is the connection between immediate conscious surface awarness and the body it pertains to. The memory is a physiological feature of the brain and therefore it is physical. For example, you can picture images of past experiences in your head because each bit of information is represented by a neuron. Sets of neurons fire in coordination with one another to produce cognition. The memory is like a storage facility for individual sets of neurons. How consciousness emerges from these transmissions is a matter of metaphysics, but it is probably still produced by them even if this remains a mystery in science.

Now, if the “self” exists, it must exist as a state where a subject is aware of what was experienced a moment ago, for if he is only at that point an accumulation of past events, “he,” as a self, can only distinguish itself by accessing what just happened, however infinitesimal the moment. If, for example, we were to strike a man in the head everytime he regained his memory, putting him back into a state of amnesia, and did so consecutively for ever, “he” would never exist. That’s absurd, you say? Hey man, its only hypothetical. But it does suggest that the only possible “self” that could be experienced by that subject would require some amount of memory to ascertain the knowledge that one exists and is “this and that,” in “this moment and that moment,” and can safely say “I am.”

Now wouldn’t a multiple personality be configured the same way? How can three “selves” access the same memory? I can understand maybe jumping bodies across the room and entering anothers mind to access their memory bank, but the possibility of unique persons emerging from one distinct set of memories is like saying that at the time of the event that occured to provide the memory, there was more than one experience happening.

Hmm…

Dude, you gotta (sic!) read someone besides Sartre! There are definitely psychic as well as physical ones cases (like amnesia) where people conveniently forget their mnemonic ability. For instance, i find it hard to remember dreams, but this forgetfulness happens in our waking, conscious life as well. We all find it easy to forget a particularly arduous or embarrassing event, for example. Nietzsche even spoke about the healing, curative power of forgetfulness; without it where would dignity and a host of other fine things be? What did you say? I forget! :unamused:

Nevertheless, in most normal situations our memory functions well. But there may be extreme traumatic psychological cases where it may easier for the psyche if the memory does not work so well.

But you speak specifically of the case of multiple personalities accessing the same memory, unaware of each other. I admit that i am at a loss for explanation at this but that does not mean that it doesn’t happen.

Dude, you gotta (sic!) read someone besides Sartre! There are definitely psychic as well as physical ones cases (like amnesia) where people conveniently forget their mnemonic ability. For instance, i find it hard to remember dreams, but this forgetfulness happens in our waking, conscious life as well. We all find it easy to forget a particularly arduous or embarrassing event, for example. Nietzsche even spoke about the healing, curative power of forgetfulness; without it where would dignity and a host of other fine things be? What did you say? I forget!

Nevertheless, in most normal situations our memory functions well. But there may be extreme traumatic psychological cases where it may easier for the psyche if the memory does not work so well.

But you speak specifically of the case of multiple personalities accessing the same memory, unaware of each other. I admit that i am at a loss for explanation at this but that does not mean that it doesn’t happen.

I don’t know what you are talking about, Marshall. My last post had nothing to do with Sartre in any direct way. It is, of course, a certain phenomenological approach to the idea, one of which Sartre used, but there are countless other philosophers who start from the same position. So why assume that this idea is directly related to Sartre? Ah, because I mention Sartre often, you naturally assume that everything I say corresponds to Sartre.

For some reason I take that as a minor insult. I’ll get back to ya’ on that one.

When will Marshall know that I am thinking for myself? When will he see me and not the shadow of another?

[insert Nietzsche rip-off]

No matter. As a great thinker, I am related to the brevity of time in which I live, as great buildings are to the little block in which they stand: one can’t see them in all their magnitude because one is too close to them. I am posthumous, and my mistakes are a greater benefit to mankind than the successes of small men. I am a destroyer, and I philosophize with a hammer(a twenty-three ounce Sears Craftsman framming hammer, with the solid oak stock and titanium alloy head, and life time warranty).

“One day, my name will be associated with events on earth that…yada, yada, yada.”

All I can say, Marshall, is that you should buy my book(when I write it), join my cult(when I start it), and pay the membership fees(when I ask for them).

When I come out of the bank with a big bag, don’t ask any questions…just drive the car, and fast.

What do you mean by “conveniently” and “psychic?”

I am not arguing against the fact that people can purposely forget things. In fact, it is parallel to my point. But I will not elaborate until I know I understand you more completely. What do you mean by those terms, exactly?

I’m a little confused, ICD 10 lists the complaint under “F44.81 Multiple personality disorder” - is this a matter that people can “believe in” or not?

Not having experienced the complaint (I am more into gerontopsychiatry) I can’t say whether I believed anyone supposed to have had it, but is this the level you’re at - deciding whether the complaint is real, or whether the patient is faking?

Shalom
Bob

Why do you care what Marshall knows… all that matters is what you can know.

As for all this money you’re going to get…

Can I borrow some and not return it?

Admittedly, It is hard to justify more than one experience occurring originally, but one could easily come up with as many interpretations as needed. Sartre gives the example of a group of hikers encountering a stone blocking their path in the mountain, and tells how some see it as a challenge, some study it scientifically, etc. I’m not sure where i stand on this multiple personality issue, i’ve never thought about it in great detail before, and i haven’t seen any of the psychological literature.

[quote]
But you speak specifically of the case of multiple personalities accessing the same memory, unaware of each other. I admit that i am at a loss for explanation at this but that does not mean that it doesn’t happen.

[quote/]

I have to agree with that point even though i am new to this subject of philosophy. For me it falls under the category of consciousness and metaphysics regardless of which famous thinker came up with it first. consciousness allows us to have sensory experience and to gain and apply knowledge. To enable the ‘concepts’ of reason and opinion to manifest within our own thoughts in the mind. As an aspect of a person, as the context Jamie first conjured, I beleive in it although i haven’t experienced it for myself. States of depression or concentrated agro may come across as forms of MPD it is not necessarily so as some experience moments of amnesia or ’ alternate personality’ aka a skitzophrenic!

correct me if i am wrong here but its just an opinion!

Multiple personalities or alternate personalities isn’t included in the description of schizophrenia. I would know.

As for believing in MPD, I have to admit that I don’t. Specifically, I don’t believe that it is a disorder. Society generally sees it as a disorder that needs to be treated no matter what. I just see it as being different and unique. Like everyone else.

I am a member on here, but I was just a little to lazy to sign on. :sunglasses: