I never said that God is selfish or forgiving, do you have a serious problem reading stuff? I said that God would be just and so forgiveness would not be His domain because then the justice cannot be brought to the person who was wronged. In fact you are the person who suggested in your earlier post that God is selfish. I will NOT discuss anything with you anymore since you are completely irrational! 
What makes life meaningful is different for every individual. We all have to figure it our for ourselves. Its beautiful. What makes my life meaningful? Too often we don’t have to think about it very much. But get into a bad enough circumstance, then you had better find out quickly.
If somebody gave you a meaning of life that wasn’t personal to you, then it would be pointless. Like is somebody told you that the meaning of life was to eat potatoes you would look at him as if he was a complete idiot. (Or at least I would.) Its useless to talk about a general, impersonal meaning of life. We can only talk about our own self-discovered, personal meaning of life.
When I read Frankl I felt that part of what helped him survive was his sense of humor. He never explicitly discusses it, but he seemed to be able to laugh at his experience from the perspective of hindsight. Laughter helps us to live in this frequently absurd world
My apologies Beenajan, i was supposed to say ‘You say that god isn’t selfish’ so what is your input on day of judgement. Do you not that that’s a little contradictory if he only wants to send the people who loved him to heavan and the rest who didn’t believe or commited some kind of crime (in his eyes) to hell. Why is not believeing in God seen as a sin? Surely if god is all knowing and knows what’s best for me then according to ‘God’, im a bad person? This God seems to only do things for himself, he wants the power of being loved to make himself feel good that everybody obey’s him, that to me is selfish.
Why would u not discuss with me? I want your opinions and what you really think on this matter, thanks!
Rami,
Look, God is all knowing in the sense that He can help you but He won’t do the stuff for you unless absolutely needed and justified. So He gives you freedom to do what you like. If you live responsibly you go to Heaven otherwise Hell. I believe that there are two realms - the physical world and the mental (spiritual). Like water evaporates and then condenses, similarly, death is a phase that takes us from this physical world to the state of becoming a spirit and back. And because we have complete freedom (I suspect water has no power to act otherwise because it has no consciousness but we do) so we act the way we do, responsibly or otherwise. Ah! Ha! So we are free to act and not fated, but it’s only the act that is free, the life we get becomes fated. Resolved it! 
And, God could not want, “the power of being loved to make himself feel good that everybody obey’s him, that to me is selfish,” because He is already powerful and Supreme. If I have a website and put a guest-book there so people will compliment or criticise my work, it is only because I look for comments to make me feel great and this is only because I’m not great. But if I was, then why would I need anybody’s comment or adoration, prayer or applause? I would not care at all.
Is god stupid then Beenajain? Your really not giving me the full arguement i would like, your avoiding many of the examples i have laid down.
Surely god would have realised by now that on the ‘day of judgement’ when he supposedly judges all, doesnt this god realise that he will only get a judgement and picture of one living in fear of hell? Let us assume we had no goverments, would we really be such a civilized race? And if you did take that goverment away, then we would see the natural behaviour of human beings. Now the reason i question ‘is god stupid’ is because i wonder why he ever told humans that he even exists? Wouldn’t he have had a better judgement of us if he didn’t make himself aware to us, that way, he would get a clear accurate judement of all, and not a judgement of one living in fear of hell.
Unless of course, he didn’t make himself aware to us, and unless of course he doesnt even exist but rather he were created by imperfect beings designed specifally to keep people in order and to give them hope and comfort them in times of despertaion. God is a powerful message, and i think that somewhere along the lines of creating him, we created our greatest dream, imagine if he were real, it’d be perfection!
I do not at any point mean to offend your religious beliefs.
Rami,
You misunderstand something very important here. God is not some entity or thing or being. God is THE JUSTICE SYSTEM ordained by life to be there so life can proceed fairly in the long run atleast, just like we have the Supreme Courts or the highest justice. Ok?
And I already wrote in another post that it is imperative that God not reveal Himself or how could one act freely and live a free life, it would be impossible. For example, I’d wonder if what I did just now was it wrong or right? Should I put my left foot first or my right? Oh! My God! A bug just got crushed underneath my foot now I’ll surely go to Hell or worse, I’ll be the same bug in my next life, etcetera. Do you know the amount of strain that would place upon all of us if we knew for sure that God existed, we could not live anymore. That’s why my dear, God chooses to be ambiguous, uncertain and avoids disclosing Himself. Just what I feel. And so the phrase, “God reveals Himself in God’s own time,” I don’t think it is true because I don’t think that God will ever reveal Himself completely.
As for our being tested on Judgement Day, if we live our life responsibly then there is nothing to fear, so the only person who would live in fear of the J day would be one who has been totally irresponsible in life and had no regards for tests.
As to my own question that I raised earlier in another topic, why do we have to be tested? It’s because we are all energy. Energy can change form but never dies although infinitesimal amounts can dissipate. And this change is there so energy can keep surviving through transformations and that’s why, “Change is the law of nature.” So, we keep coming to this physical world and back to the spiritual and so on the cycle goes and we are tested so life can proceed fairly for all concerned.
And don’t call God, “stupid.” He is NOT STUPID!
Anyways, the point I was trying to make was that God is the Highest Justice and not someone sitting in outer space, that’s why the following quote from life is true - “Life has a way of taking care of itself.” (Mind you don’t forget re-birth and fate here)
BeenaJain,
If there is a judge, even if he is hiding out in the bushes, where we can’t see him, so to speak, then we really aren’t free. Even if there is a long time before we get judged, the fact that we get judged make us not free. As long as that judge does have the authority to back up his judgment, and in the picture you paint, your guy does have that power. As long as there is a judge then life is just a competition or contest with the inevitable result of winners and losers. Then there are tons of people who are more than happy to tell you what the rules of this competition are. Since the judge is hidden, he never shows up to clarify things. So do you trust these people with their rules for the competition? And nowadays you gotta decide which people with which rules to follow.
And we are supposed to love this judge who gives us a false sense of freedom while he secretly judges all that we do?
Not my cup of tea.
Baby! You missed the whole jist of what I was saying. You can live your life freely but responsibly and despite that if conflict arises THEN you go to the Court or the Supreme court. So God or the Highest justice will not intervene in your life unless there is necessity, do you see? Therefore even though God judges, it is only for your betterment and only because that need arises, otherwise you’re completely free in a sense. Think of God as not a hindrance but a help in times of need. And although life I believe is a game but it does not have to be some competition unless you prefer to like the rat-race or so. And since we are all equal so some other has no right defining rules for you that you don’t like otherwise you can call the same tune too, don’t you think so? What I’m saying is that in our life we take people to courts for justice but in this collective universe, life takes us to court of the Highest Justice for justice if it deems necessary to keep BALANCE in the universe.
BeenaJain,
Ok. I read through your post a few times and I still don’t think that I understand it. I can understand how people can go to a court to decide a conflict, but how do you go to God? How does God intervene? How does God help in times of need?
There is too much unfairness in this world for me to think that there is a god of it who cares one bit about justice. There is no fairness in nature. Is it fair when the hungry lion catches the gazelle? It isn’t fair to the gazelle. Is it fair when the gazelle escapes from the hungry lion? It isn’t fair to the hungry lion.
People suffer needlessly everyday. Children die. Honest people get lied to. Kind people get treated mercilessly. People made up justice, but they can’t manage it. We try to make the world a just place, but life just isn’t fair. It is not unfair either. It is just life. Which is great.
There are always going to be people who make up rules that the rest of us have to follow. That is just the way it goes. You hope that they are going to be good rules that make sense, but just as often as not, they are silly rules or downright insane rules. But once again, that is life.
(Plus: Wouldn’t God be wise and understanding enough to not waste time judging people.)
If god knows ‘all’ then why does he need to waste his time judging? Shouldn’t he already know how he judged us, seen as he he does know ‘all’.
When a judge judges then he’s not judging himself or his life, he’s judging us or our life so it can proceed fairly for all concerned. Now, there’s some people who will avenge themselves but others who just don’t have the courage or the opportunity. Do you think that life could be so meaningless that the person who wronged in the way he wronged will not undergo punishment whether the victim punishes him or not? I don’t think so. I think life is fair in the long run and herein I include re-birth too. Therefore even though life is fated for it has to be, yet, one is still free to act as one likes or dislikes and pay for the consequences accordingly in the long run.
That can’t be true because your basically revolving everything around us. God is contrdictory, when i said why waste his time judging us when he already knows the outcome? I basically meant, God is all knowing, and for him to be all knowing, he must know everything that has happened, everything that is too happen, so that must include him knowing how he judged us. So why dwill he bother to judge us if he already knows the outcome?
And beeajin, can you see clearly now how this ‘god’ uses so many human vices? (we use courts and judges and so doed ‘god’) Though god is not human…far from it i would imagine.
To be honest, God is our deepest dream.
BeenaJain,
Life isn’t meaningless. At the same time, life isn’t fair. At least not fair, as far as our hearts go. We hunger for justice, but we rarely get fed. Far too often what passes for justice is just authorized vengence.
There is at least one place were everyone gets exactly what they deserve: in fairy tales.
Rami,
God is not contradictory, He gives us freedom to act freely but we must face the consequences in the form of fate.
God is all knowing only to the extent of what has already happened. He does not know the outcome and even though He can predict fairly well, He would not try to interfere and change it unless fate must intervene because He gives us freedom to act and then He is just. Like which part of all this do you not understand?
And He is not careless or heartless like you to spell peoples’ names wrong or make countless spelling mistakes and abuse verbally like you abuse God. Idiot!!!
God uses no vices 'cause He has no use for them.
If a STUPID MORON like you is so against God and abuses God verbally so much as you have then how come to you, “God is our deepest dream?” YOU are the contradiction here, not God! I’d say to you keep dreaming for the rest of your life!!!
I refuse to discuss anything with you in the future 'cause you don’t have a brain nor a heart either because you abuse my name and also the name of God verbally and the english language as well.
Fairy tales are fairy tales. It does not mean that we take an example from them and make them our philosophy of life and living, no! That would be a big mistake. Fairy tales just make for good reading and pleasant entertainment.
I never said anywhere that life is meaningless. I also did not say that life is un-fair either. Life has meaning and life is fair too but in the long run usually. But most of all we see what we see in life because life is fated too depending on our course of action in this life or the previous, that’s why it may appear to be un-fair at times.
Well to be honest, i dont’ understand tha fact that ‘God’ has over 300 names and one which happens to be ‘the all knowing’, but how can this be if he only ‘knows’ to a certain extent. Would that not mean that he isn’t the ‘all knowing’? And if he isn’t the all knowing then how can you call him ‘God’?
So if ‘God’ knows nothing of the future, and nor can he control fate…then just who exactly does? 
…You say that he can make a good guess, but why guess if your God? Are you telling me that God is unsure and that your willing to believe in ‘something’ that claims to know everything but in actual fact only knows as much as we do, which is the present right?
So God uses no human vices? Well, doesn’t God say that Heavan has eternal rivers which flow with wine? I may seem iggnorant to you, that’s how i may come across to alot of people, just because i don’t believe in a god. But why should that make me a bad person Beenajain? …Just because i refuse to believe…that seems really ‘selfish’, yet again, a human vice.
I refuse to argue with you or make comments at you on a forum, but i did apologise in advance just incase i did offend you. I didn’t contradict myself at all, i say that ‘God’ is our deepest dream and i mean it, everything about a ‘God’ is good, ‘God’ is everything that we want in our life, gods existence would make life meaningful and not empty, gods existence would give afterlife and stop the endless worries about complete oblivion after death, that is what we dream of, and that’s exactly what we have done, created our deepest dream into a myth, but for some as yourself…it’s alot more than just a my
For reference; i do not verbally abuse anybody, how can i abuse something that doesn’t exist…and never has?
Rami,
I’m really sorry to call you by all those names. To make a long story very very short, I think that, God is consciousness, consciousness is the mind because without a mind we cease to exist or know not that we exist, even though the food energy is there and mind is the spirit because they are both no quantity, occupy no space, exist in nothingness according to our universal laws, are both pure and cannot be seen but both can be felt just like we feel there is a God! And this God is the Highest Justice so life can be fair to all but only in the long run because we are all free to act. So the consequences can only follow later as fate. Ok?
Ok.
Some remarks for this misleadingly driven thread by the self-called philosopher BeenaJain :
Very dogmatic. Why it has to be that ? Can you give a mere proof why should we believe it?
No there’s no test at all.Turn to science,you can find more plausible and substantial answers than you’ve ever thought. For concise universe explanation I recommend you : Hawking’s- A brief History of Time.
It’s fine popular science’s best seller and suitable for beginners.
So you accept subjectiveness in one’s responsibilities and about fate in general. So why is there any special need to create and raise an objective judger such as your god? I guess none,the whole religions trip can be firstly attributed firstly to primitive man fear for the unknown and then due to believers’ gullibility to some -heavenly sent- dogmas
The meaning is personal to everyone and covered under a veil of inextricable subjective reasons, often influenced by his environment/principles and society’s standard tenets. Find your own i have no problem with that.
Again that’s not enough for me.Heart is blood pump and nothing more, I can’t assume any intuitive metaphysic feeling
I belived in nothing.Even your eyes can deceive you
False and arbitrary analogy.Between something corporeal(water) and something unreal(spirit) there can be no correlation. For an empiricist like me unreal is merely inconceivable.
.About freedom is attributed to Heisenberg’s law of uncertainty in Quantum physics, in case you didn’t with catch up with modern science.Everything is probable in microscopic atomic level thus indeterministic laws occur.
Reality as it exists apart from observation is the deterministic expression of Schrodinger’s equation for the Wave Function
I hope you weren’t serious. But then i can expect any better from such a devoted god’s follower
Only every Homo Sapiens that lived till today will be examined? What about our anchestors , apes? I guess not them. Then from which point in history the pruning and judging of humans will take place? From 40,000 b.c. and forth? From 10,000 b.c.? Before what point living beings won’t be considered humans? I don’t expect an decent answer from a Creationist cause he simply can’t find any truth in his bible like religious textbook. Evolution provides again better answers.But that’s another big topic.
Not ok. Define first God, consciousness and then attain a correlation.
And morals & fairness as I stated is way subjective.There’s no absolute fair as there’s no absolute good/evil.
Stupid is a superfluous word.
As you said. He is --NOT–
Yeah,I’ll go to hell … hmm but hell…what is that…
No , such things as heaven and hell don’t exist. I have no fear.I’m self confident and not bow obsequiously to anyone like god’s believers. Self-respect for thyself comes first .
''God?Well ,there’s no need for such an addition. "
Pierre Simon Laplace, 19th century’s french scientist
Some religions may not differ from fairy tales
1st:All homo sapiens’ have brains.
2nd:Hearts too
3nd:I won’t abuse your god any more, in case you provide me with plausible and valid proofs that he exists. I’m becoming a bit egoist …
Trite remainder from my Nietsche’s readings…
and now some thoughts of mine to rami’s questions
1.He is not anywhere.God’s personalization really perplexes things.Believers claim he’s everywhere.
2.Again a paradox that can be solved when rejecting god’s superfluous addition
3.Nay,common religions nonsense.Prophets role as intermediary don’t make sense.Why are they chosen? And why should i follow any parochial,insubstantial and arbitrarily written books such bible and the other religious textbooks?
Things in our nature’s perception have totally changed since 2000 or 1400 years ago , humanity furthered itself and managed to explain nature’s more precisely. I think nowdays there could never possibly be in any way, a potential new religion’s creation.Its followers must either dumb or unable to follow contemporary themes in world’s explanation.I don’t claim everything is explained, at least science’s arguments are raised more credibly and most scientific models made much more satisfying steps in giving answers rather than the soothing,neverchanging,stagnant and compromising religious dogmas.
Cheers to xanderman and other skeptics
In anticipation of a non-biased,-within the limits - civilised and dialectically arguable reply of yours,Thx in advance,
fatesrych
fatesrych,
To make a long story short, there must be Judgement Day or the big exam and the tests in the form of fate are all through our life simply because we cannot have something like tests and exams in our life if it wasn’t inherent in our life dictated by our genes that God initially created. Get it?
As to responding to the rest of your post, I suggest that since you have no appreciation for me anywhere but only criticism and nothing really substantial to add from your side in the process, but particularly because you like the posts of xanderman and other skeptics that you think so highly of and congratulate, I suggest that YOU have no use reading my posts and they are a waste of YOUR time, as such I suggest that you not waste YOUR time in the future reading my posts. Please, stay away from them!