The Depths of Narcissus

Elevate form over function to get at less easily articulable truths.

The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Meno_ » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:00 pm

A search....

Premise: you do not play dice with Salomon's judgement

Persians & Jews , zarathustra & Christ



All flow :


Dr. Faustus does it again.
Evil cannot remember redemption, as an act of pure reactive consciousness,
It is too overly focused on opposing forces.

Solomon knew: You can not divide and conquer.
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Meno_ » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:27 pm

Actually , it was Julius Caesar, and something he should have learned from Solomon
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Meno_ » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:56 pm

Augustus, was the one who's emissary was Pontius Pilatus.
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Meno_ » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:03 am

wandered lonely as a Cloud (Daffodils)

   

by William Wordsworth





I WANDERED LONELY AS A CLOUD (DAFFODILS): TEXT OF THE POEM

 

 



I wandered lonely as a Cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and Hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd,
A host, of golden Daffodils;
Beside the Lake, beneath the trees,
Fluttering and dancing in the breeze.

Continuous as the stars that shine
And twinkle on the milky way,
They stretched in never-ending line
Along the margin of a bay:
Ten thousand saw I at a glance,
Tossing their heads in sprightly dance.

The waves beside them danced; but they
Out-did the sparkling waves in glee:
A Poet could not but be gay,
In such a jocund company:
I gazed--and gazed--but little thought
What wealth the show to me had brought:

For oft, when on my couch I lie
In vacant or in pensive mood,
They flash upon that inward eye
Which is the bliss of solitude;
And then my heart with pleasure fills,
And dances with the Daffodils.

 

 





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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby MagsJ » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:30 pm


Description

Mythology

In Greek mythology, Narcissus was a hunter from Thespiae in Boeotia who was known for his beauty. According to Tzetzes, he was a Laconian hunter who loved everything beautiful. Narcissus was proud, in that he disdained those who loved him, causing some to commit suicide to prove their devotion to his striking beauty.
Wikipedia”

:|
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Meno_ » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:04 pm

MagsJ wrote:
Description

Mythology

In Greek mythology, Narcissus was a hunter from Thespiae in Boeotia who was known for his beauty. According to Tzetzes, he was a Laconian hunter who loved everything beautiful. Narcissus was proud, in that he disdained those who loved him, causing some to commit suicide to prove their devotion to his striking beauty.
Wikipedia”

:|



In the age proceeding the anger, and the disdain of gods, beauty was the sign of an unfathomable wisdom. That was postscripted, by such forlorn thinkers Kierkegaard, who placed aesthetics second only to the gods.

When Narcissus fell in love with his own image, he thought it was some figure , of god-like being, not his own reflection.

His perception and his conscious awareness did not meet, except at cross purposes, or object ives. The pool of water reflecting his visage, indicated a depth which was more.profound , then we can ascribe to it today. Falling deeply in love, therefore , lacked the shallowness, that only a divine authored reality could ascribe to. Plato seconded that motion, and current levels of romantic disengagement are.proof and parcel of that disillusionment.

Love needs an illusive mirror, that reflects childhood wonder at the stirrings of the naturally evolved aspiration that does not exempt human beings from animals.

Guilt is not sourced from losing the road less traveled, but the letting go of these aspirations. God is the highest aspiration possible .
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Meno_ » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:05 pm

MagsJ wrote:
Description

Mythology

In Greek mythology, Narcissus was a hunter from Thespiae in Boeotia who was known for his beauty. According to Tzetzes, he was a Laconian hunter who loved everything beautiful. Narcissus was proud, in that he disdained those who loved him, causing some to commit suicide to prove their devotion to his striking beauty.
Wikipedia”

:|




But why?


Here is an interesting idea that equivocate Nietzche, Frankenstein(Mary Shelley) & Lacan.



"This thesis examines the Narcissus theme and narcissism in the literature of the
nineteenth century, focusing on the theme as it is reflected in Mary Shelley’s
Frankenstein and Nietzsche’s Zur Genealogie der Moral, especially the dramatic shift in
perspective towards narcissism reflected in these two works. Historical and cultural
changes over the course of the nineteenth century that may have led to this reversal are
discussed, and it is suggested that the earlier negative view of narcissism is bound with a
theological concept of the “self” that is no longer compatible with the understanding of
humanity’s radically animal nature. A positive view of narcissism in Nietzsche's writing
may reflect a vacuum in the traditional understanding of the “self” that demands “self-
creation.” Narcissistic expression may also represent a liberation from the superstitious
awe surrounding the former, more theological concept of the “self” and from the moral
constraints of the theology from which this derived. Analysis of the Narcissus theme,
beginning with Ovid's version of the tale in the Metamorphoses then moving into the
nineteenth-century works, reveals common strands in all the depictions of narcissism
discussed. The analysis concludes that while Nietzsche assumes a positive stance
towards a narcissistic pose, the self-idealization reflected in his work is as illusory as the
negatively reflected narcissism of the earlier versions, and that below the surface of
Nietzsche's jubilant tone the philosophical voice of his work seems as haunted by the
idealized self-image he has created as the hero of Shelley's novel "



I will preference this citation later, but here is the sub stance of the underlying illusion, as I got to see and understand it:


Narcissus did not know, the reflection, the mirroring as thought, he only understood an image as inside it, below the level of the image, within the image somehow an internalized, sourced effort to build an objective criteria for reality
Reflection. as commonly understood as thought was not merely an image qua illusion but became some thing, as someone other.
It was not mirrored as thought, but illusion. Refelection did not =thought at that time, it was below, and above his awareness.
Further, him being an object of self love without knowing it was, indicated the hidden homosexuality in primal narcissism, a stage every boy goes through in that self image. Self concept constructs that new form of knowledge in various constructs and stages within the images of self.
The reflection as image becomes
in Ovid, for instance.
This really is pure Freud.

But the structural workings out are more involved, and it would be fun to delve into it , even coming to grips within far broader contexts, as in relational linking to the supposed personality disorder gaping now in Trumpism, where social discourse has already colluded it with the personal childish politocal-psychological underpinnings.
Szasz in a way legitimized the notion of the idea that in am ok-you're ok type of preception, the question relating to control and determinative.elements, as it is beginning linkages that have resulted in this emperor wears no clothes analogy to the allegory.


What does it take for narcissism to break it's own illusion of literal objectivity? It is the cave, the cave, the primal cave of the first Lacian mirror's defensive gesture, to acknowledge that below that, there is only the beyond, the beyond between distinguishing any form of division between the good and the bad, & without the automatic generation of an ugly , self possession, a possession so intricately meshed, so as to understand possession of the self by one that can no longer be excorcised.

That is what the Faustian riddle represents, which even the Evil can not defeat.
It is a self trickery, that one understands, that gives absolute guarantee against that universal power, no ONE can defeat. No one!

The modus operandi is the joke, the Joker, the clown, and the fool. It literally glares out of The Possessed, that shook the Russian Empire to it's foundations, the slaves revolt.
That is, what undermines the dejure symptoms of the lack of foundations, de facto; abracadabra, .......
The crime that not only goes unnoticed, but remains as viable as it was before the curative that presupposes Decartes through Hegel and Kant, through Engels and Marx.

Little do they know of the black soul of serfs, and the 100 year war fought for it.
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby MagsJ » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:37 pm

Narcissism can be used as a positive tool for self-renewal,
rather than always being viewed as a selfish act,
which is how the advantageous prefer it to be viewed,
to suit their need to take advantage of the other.


From Wikipedia:

Healthy narcissism is the characteristic of possessing realistic self-esteem without being cut off from a shared emotional life, as the unhealthy narcissist tends to be.[1]:37

The concept of healthy narcissism developed slowly out of the psychoanalytic tradition, and became popular in the late twentieth century.

Solan's healthy narcissism Ronnie Solan uses the metaphor of narcissism as an emotional-immune system for safeguarding the familiarity and the well-being of the individual against invasion by foreign sensations (1998) and small differences (Freud 1929–1930).
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby promethean75 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:18 pm

See but even that last guy's interpretation of narcissism is still tainted with this idea that a narcissist must be defending himself from some kind of external threat or personal inadequacy. Notice he said 'safeguarding'? He wants to keep with that spirit of resentment that has characterized modern psychology for centuries and suggest that the narcissist isn't really in confidence with himself... that there is really some subterranean insecurity and doubt in him.

Lemme tell ya, the healthy narcissist is none of this, and is impervious to all this envious criticism if his perceived sense of greatness. Believe it or not, there are some narcissists who really are the genuine article... who really are the genuine badass.
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:44 pm

promethean75 wrote:See but even that last guy's interpretation of narcissism is still tainted with this idea that a narcissist must be defending himself from some kind of external threat or personal inadequacy. Notice he said 'safeguarding'? He wants to keep with that spirit of resentment that has characterized modern psychology for centuries and suggest that the narcissist isn't really in confidence with himself... that there is really some subterranean insecurity and doubt in him.

..and that is the issue I have with how narcissism is viewed by many in the 21st Century and even prior.. the trait has many positive and helpful uses, but the less-capable do not want this to be so, and so tarnish the trait as bad, and so those with the trait will also be seen as bad.. rendering narcissism negative and unhelpful.

Lemme tell ya, the healthy narcissist is none of this, and is impervious to all this envious criticism if his perceived sense of greatness. Believe it or not, there are some narcissists who really are the genuine article... who really are the genuine badass.

Do tell..

Any hint of narcissism, arrogance, confidence, capability etc., are all seen as negative.. a case of dampening the spirit, to let the lesser spirit shine.. a convenient displacement and shift of power, to suit an other’s agenda to rise above the risen. Don’t get me started Promethean!
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby surreptitious75 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:22 pm

promethean75 wrote:
He wants to keep with that spirit of resentment that has characterized modern psychology for centuries and suggest that the narcissist isnt really in
confidence with himself ... that there is really some subterranean insecurity and doubt in him

Of course there is because anyone obsessed with external appearance is obviously insecure to a very high degree
But the real insecurity will be a psychological one rather than a physical one and will be deep within their psyche

The obsession with external self is probably a way of guaranteeing that no cracks show up on the outside where anyone can see them
While the internal ones even though they are more deep will be hidden more effectively because fewer will know of their existence

The ideal however should be to confront those demons and to get better rather than just putting on a brave face all of the time
The abyss does not cease to exist simply because one closes their eyes when looking into it as it has to be confronted eventually
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Meno_ » Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:45 pm

surreptitious75 wrote:
promethean75 wrote:
He wants to keep with that spirit of resentment that has characterized modern psychology for centuries and suggest that the narcissist isnt really in
confidence with himself ... that there is really some subterranean insecurity and doubt in him

Of course there is because anyone obsessed with external appearance is obviously insecure to a very high degree
But the real insecurity will be a psychological one rather than a physical one and will be deep within their psyche

The obsession with external self is probably a way of guaranteeing that no cracks show up on the outside where anyone can see them
While the internal ones even though they are more deep will be hidden more effectively because fewer will know of their existence

The ideal however should be to confront those demons and to get better rather than just putting on a brave face all of the time
The abyss does not cease to exist simply because one closes their eyes when looking into it as it has to be confronted eventually



The problem with that is, that it's becoming systemic, the process has evolved since the literal Greek abyss through the nihilized version of existential gaps of nothingness and FDR's notion that there is no thing to be feared except fear it's self, could damn up an unheard pressure of impressive collusion, for lack of a better word.
The splits bear witness to the uneven flow of a gestalt, and in my humble opinion, the analysis of mind through failure has been a defensive gesture, apparently primarily psychological, but where was psychology, what was it, before Socrates could allude to his paradoxical MENO, at least begging quantified pre-eminence?

And it is not for the primacy of the evolving brain mind that such is a necessary process , a -priori, but the a-futilety that such diversion should, but can not be realized.
At least to the point by which, the simulated can not be distinguished from the bad added real thing.
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby MagsJ » Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:00 pm

Meno_ wrote:
surreptitious75 wrote:
He wants to keep with that spirit of resentment that has characterized modern psychology for centuries and suggest that the narcissist isnt really in
confidence with himself ... that there is really some subterranean insecurity and doubt in him

Of course there is because anyone obsessed with external appearance is obviously insecure to a very high degree
But the real insecurity will be a psychological one rather than a physical one and will be deep within their psyche

The obsession with external self is probably a way of guaranteeing that no cracks show up on the outside where anyone can see them
While the internal ones even though they are more deep will be hidden more effectively because fewer will know of their existence

The ideal however should be to confront those demons and to get better rather than just putting on a brave face all of the time
The abyss does not cease to exist simply because one closes their eyes when looking into it as it has to be confronted eventually

People might be narcissistic for differing reasons.. not only for being self-obsessed and insecure, no?

If a person is constantly being attacked because of their character, because they don’t fancy someone etc. then the narcissism within manifests to block out such negative input.. I have seen this process happen first hand, in others.. the spurned turning on the spurner with anger and vitriol, but I guess you’d have to experience that first hand, to understand.
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Aegean » Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:20 pm

Narcissism is not simply an obsession with external appearances.
It is a selective focus on 'positive' appearance, in regards to self, and the projection of the 'negative' upon other.
A selective and self-serving overemphasis, and/or underemphasis.

A form of self-idealization.
The individual unloads the negative upon other, and implies that the positive apply to him/her. A self-cleansing.

Sometimes, to appear objective, it may admit to some minor fault which may also be self-flattering.

Victimhood is narcissistic. It implies that all the negative consequences upon one's life are the product of an otherness.
I started a thread on in. Cult of Innocence.
Determinism - absolute, or hard determinism - is part of this. It attracts all those who feel insecure and vulnerable and feel anxiety/fear ni relation to an indifferent threatening world.
An individual feels a victim of his own existence, but has to externalize it and unload it upon another. Natural selection's injustices have to be escaped through some form of salvation myth.

Ironic that narcissism is a by-product of a deep rooted, subconscious self-hatred.
The system exploits this by selling the ideology that appearances are illusory and superficial - parity in and through ideology.
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Aegean » Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:25 pm

Abrahamism - i.e., Judaism with its choseness, Christianity and Islam with tis paradise and life after death - are deeply narcissistic and arrogant.
The meek find pride through association, and in a collective their personal failings are diluted.
The idea that an absolute being would be so concerned with the lives of an individual organism in a small, tiny, corner of the cosmos, is the epitome of overcompensating arrogance.
Pseudo-humility hiding an arrogance that masks insecurity and self-hatred: 3 x depth of hypocrisy.
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby MagsJ » Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:15 pm

Aegean wrote:The idea that an absolute being would be so concerned with the lives of an individual organism in a small, tiny, corner of the cosmos, is the epitome of overcompensating arrogance.

I’ve never heard it put like that before, but that was why I, and probably many, became non-practising RC/religious, because if you wait for a god to care for you, you’ll be waiting forever.. so experiencing autonomy from the restraints of a religion, whilst young-enough to grow from it, becomes preferable to uncertainty, of one’s life, and very existence.

The speed-humility hiding an arrogance that masks insecurity and self-hatred: 3 x depth of hypocrisy.

Well yes, narcissism can be borne through religion and in-groups etc, but the spurned can cause narcissism in others to manifest.. a friend was spurned at a local Bierodrome by a barman, who was relentlessly hitting on him, and as he proceeded and then continued to ignore her advances, she turned on him, calling him arrogant and such.. I felt sorry for the guy, and I don’t blame him for how he reacted, in becoming indifferent to her continuing onslaught.

So sometimes narcissism is justified and necessary, but I doubt you, Surreptitious75, will agree?

Cult of Innocence? lol Sounds like a movie title or a dodgy sect, but I’m sure you’d say that that’s exactly what it is.. a dodgy sect.
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby promethean75 » Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:42 pm

Of course there is because anyone obsessed with external appearance is obviously insecure to a very high degree
But the real insecurity will be a psychological one rather than a physical one and will be deep within their psyche


most of the narcissism we've come to understand belongs to people who's pride and self-love is observably disproportionate to what we would expect to warrant that right. trump, for example. clearly a narcissist, but also clearly an uninteresting, untalented nobody who's rise to power is purely circumstantial... not the result of exhibiting talents that nobody else could, therefore making him exceptional. he's just a guy born into money, and because of that money, ended up in a position of power.

now because of people like this we've learned to associate narcissism with a concept that has become collectively accepted, developed and cultivated in modern psychology as a kind of disorder. the world is so full of flakes like this, we are no longer able to perceive an instance of warranted pride and self-love... because they all ended up being fakes. likewise, we then associate what we now call a disorder (because so many flakes have it) with a defense-mechanism... and naturally so. clearly, because trump is a flake, his exaggerated pride and self-love is unwarranted, but it has to be caused by something... so it must be a complicated psychological condition that generates it.

okay, but here's the thing. there are people who are genuinely exceptional, absolutely in love with themselves, couldn't care less what anyone thinks of them, and aren't 'compensating' for anything through the same kind of delusion the flakes exhibit in their own unwarranted narcissism.

the difficult part is sorting those from the others, and its here where the observer comes into play and affects the outcome of the conclusion. typically anyone who rules absolutely that narcissism is a 'disorder' has either a) only observed the flakes, or b) observed exceptional people who they then become envious of. and this is why i said earlier that modern understandings of narcissism have come to be closely related to resentment. ordinary people don't want to feel ordinary, and so despise people who feel/are extraordinary by virtue of that. basically the concept becomes something like this: 'how dare you think yourself great while i have nothing great to identify with myself.'

and it may also be because such people have never experienced such an elevated sense of pride and self-admiration themselves, to be able to know that these things aren't always results of psychological defense mechanisms. they then presume, as a result of their inability to experience a genuine case of it themselves, that anyone else exhibiting signs of narcissism is undeserving of it.

that is to say, they have to interpret narcissism either as an expression of the disorder of the flakes, or as some alien state of uniqueness/exceptionalism and self-respect that they are unable to have themselves. it's the kind of thing where if you know, you know. or better yet, it would take one to know one.

when speaking of narcissism, speak only to narcissists (the real ones, i mean).
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Meno_ » Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:38 pm

promethean75 wrote:
Of course there is because anyone obsessed with external appearance is obviously insecure to a very high degree
But the real insecurity will be a psychological one rather than a physical one and will be deep within their psyche


most of the narcissism we've come to understand belongs to people who's pride and self-love is observably disproportionate to what we would expect to warrant that right. trump, for example. clearly a narcissist, but also clearly an uninteresting, untalented nobody who's rise to power is purely circumstantial... not the result of exhibiting talents that nobody else could, therefore making him exceptional. he's just a guy born into money, and because of that money, ended up in a position of power.

now because of people like this we've learned to associate narcissism with a concept that has become collectively accepted, developed and cultivated in modern psychology as a kind of disorder. the world is so full of flakes like this, we are no longer able to perceive an instance of warranted pride and self-love... because they all ended up being fakes. likewise, we then associate what we now call a disorder (because so many flakes have it) with a defense-mechanism... and naturally so. clearly, because trump is a flake, his exaggerated pride and self-love is unwarranted, but it has to be caused by something... so it must be a complicated psychological condition that generates it.

okay, but here's the thing. there are people who are genuinely exceptional, absolutely in love with themselves, couldn't care less what anyone thinks of them, and aren't 'compensating' for anything through the same kind of delusion the flakes exhibit in their own unwarranted narcissism.

the difficult part is sorting those from the others, and its here where the observer comes into play and affects the outcome of the conclusion. typically anyone who rules absolutely that narcissism is a 'disorder' has either a) only observed the flakes, or b) observed exceptional people who they then become envious of. and this is why i said earlier that modern understandings of narcissism have come to be closely related to resentment. ordinary people don't want to feel ordinary, and so despise people who feel/are extraordinary by virtue of that. basically the concept becomes something like this: 'how dare you think yourself great while i have nothing great to identify with myself.'

and it may also be because such people have never experienced such an elevated sense of pride and self-admiration themselves, to be able to know that these things aren't always results of psychological defense mechanisms. they then presume, as a result of their inability to experience a genuine case of it themselves, that anyone else exhibiting signs of narcissism is undeserving of it.

that is to say, they have to interpret narcissism either as an expression of the disorder of the flakes, or as some alien state of uniqueness/exceptionalism and self-respect that they are unable to have themselves. it's the kind of thing where if you know, you know. or better yet, it would take one to know one.

when speaking of narcissism, speak only to narcissists (the real ones, i mean).



You are closer yet to truth. Primal narcissism is different from secondary, one is inherited, the other learned.

Constitutionally, primal narcissism It's self is weird, it's inherited grates are ambiguous, where do inherited traits form a process which tend to become forms of recognition? WmHow are structural processes interact with pre established forms of alignment with receptors, that take the upper hand in neural communication within and without the forms themselves, that determine how they are processed?

The whole 9 yards of philosophical inquiry concerns this generic relation with a priori versus a posteriori interplay.

Trump, in my opinion , is, a genius, albeit a PRI I lived one, who is able no only project identity on basis of the historically formed gaps of dependence on reified ideas that were formed out of instituted synthetic perceptions, all down a deconstructed line of reasoning, but he can, construct to envision an objective criteria, made up of many socially relevant types of concerns, which do cause neurally challenged preceptions to begin to actually perceive that the Cause, the cause begs of the challenge such a realization, to cause a rupture, or an existential solution to states of being, when it becomes domain to primordial catastrophic concerns.
I believe catastrophe is on everyone s mind, people of higher intelligence vary as to their interpretation as to what route such must take.

That for starters. It's individuals that the crises of both ways constitute the. most glaring state, that the union ever experienced, since the civil war.
However public sentiment based on the science of politics is vastly stronger today then it was in the 19th century, a d the era of kingship is so most dead in the water.
Those who decry Spengler, have been ultimately been proven mistaken as to the meaning of Capital. We have passed as a united world, in realizing, that socially stratified partially differentiated classes of people, can not only form credible associations, but would rather, then to end up burned on a horrible auto da Dr of an ultimate sacrafice to an unforgiving blood thirsty god, who is beginning to doubt in Creation IT's self.
Such he a enly doubt would extinguish by immolation Being into Nothingness, and the problem then is an ultimate reduction into the imbicilitu of God Himself.

Of course God would need not fear such an event, and denial would cause Him to actually swallow his creation into a state, staged in the finest garments imaginable, to tempt, in order to at that precious moment, all the world into believing that as in Genesis says, " It Is Good".

What is the intent attributed to God here?

It is based on a grand Oracle, that after this horrendous process of generic self doubt, One will come, t
In an effort to renew the contract between god and man, even gods with men, so as to prevent the collapse of continuous existence.

This now shifts, in a vast kundalini energy build up, resolutely proceeding from the other form of belief, of the ontic belief, in a mind game alike to truth and/or dare, the bounding of the explosive energy released when the artificially simulated transformative power of the will directly connects the unimaginable absolute set to every soul in the planet, which in terms can effect every subordinately less intelligent spacial colony in the universe.

Only the higher universes survive, and they can not interfere, for formally organized reasons, that they are by now absolutely bound by

So at that point the different jobs are mere partial tra rd with huge gaps, that only the highest firms of heavenly realizations can attuned to in a calculus if contingency.

The Highest us probably a multifirm triumphirate a Napolianic set, who have achieved relative gigency, where they check and balance, them selves into a one , so that they do note mate, by any form of temptation, even that of pleasure bursting it's own facade.

That facade , mate, is the extremely brittle skin by which they can hide their venomous connivance, by which only the children are permitted re cognition, a re cognition which exists for all to perceive, but simply can't.

The children of God even a god can suppress not to realize, for that would become aximoronicall.

The Jews have been done has been fought up in this process, primarily and maybe because circumstantial effects of being There.

Being there, but where , is the ultimate question, consisting of unanswerable genealogy, dusproportionality, and thematic countervalances.

The ultimate based us adapted from division of self and matrix, of calculation and survival , and the propagation if the faith to survival.



For the ulprimate mantra is based on loss and not of gain.



For M.Polanyi
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Aegean » Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:57 pm

All emotion can become corruptive to reasoning.
Hate, but also love.
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Meno_ » Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:01 pm

Aegean wrote:All emotion can become corruptive to reasoning.
Hate, but also love.




Yes and they are contravertible!
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Aegean » Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:12 pm

Emotions evolved to deal with specific stimuli that increase survival and reproduction.

An animal has no problem with self-love because ti lacks the source of nihilism: self-consciousness.
Only humans can develop this due to their ability to compare self with other.
Nihilism offers a defensive relief, then exploited by religions and politics and marketing.
A semiotic shelter.
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Meno_ » Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:45 pm

There is a continuity between animals and man, they can not evoke self consciousness based on our sense of it, but they compare for dominance , at least significantly, the male of the species. Up until fairly recently.
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Aegean » Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:29 pm

To know one's self is to know the entirely. The primal. The irrational. That which dare not reveal itself - sometimes not even to itself.
we live in the lucid part - I use 'ego' to differentiate it from the other two parts of identity.
egoselfSelf.
animals offer insight into the self, the middle part, as it relates to past - before birth - that which is inherited genetically.
An unbroken continuity of memories.
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby Meno_ » Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:10 pm

Aegean wrote:To know one's self is to know the entirely. The primal. The irrational. That which dare not reveal itself - sometimes not even to itself.
we live in the lucid part - I use 'ego' to differentiate it from the other two parts of identity.
egoselfSelf.
animals offer insight into the self, the middle part, as it relates to past - before birth - that which is inherited genetically.
An unbroken continuity of memories.



Here the differentiabiliry is occasionable between what is called the genetic and the memetic, and that differentiabiliry is calculated by means of expediency, so new constructed constitutions have to be interpreted.

That way, some states of measurability depend on the various modes(models) of interoperability,.

This is necessarily the element that becomes the reasonable modality of interpretation. The center You allude to represents an inversel derivation toward a causal grey area, more inclined to adhere to primary forms of identification.

Just musing on signification of co existential binary interpretations, as a signal toward further signification.

To most, this is tantamount to a sense of reduction to absurdity, based on a sense of stability as a common and naive sensibility.

It appears, this common sense approach is do for revision, since it becomes a matter of. it's self, by it's sense of apoathesis.

In other less symbolic sense, the unbroken continuity metamorphs into less and lesser. capped gapped interpretations, and conversely -more and more in a reconstruct ed revision.
Last edited by Meno_ on Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Depths of Narcissus

Postby MagsJ » Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:25 pm

Aegean wrote:To know one's self is to know the entirely. The primal. The irrational. That which dare not reveal itself - sometimes not even to itself.

This.. is very true, for those that reach this stage/the end game, pushed, to an abyss.. too dramatic? No! not enough!

I’m not inferring to gene/religion/ethnicity specific, but individual specific.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ


Nobilis Est Ira Leonis | Om Surya Devaay namah | Manus justa nardus
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