Three AM

Elevate form over function to get at less easily articulable truths.

Re: Three AM

Postby derleydoo » Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:17 pm

promethean75 wrote:
No, suppose a toddler runs into the road whilst he's auditioning for America's got talent?


whilst i do appreciate your concern, ludwig van has the fortitude of a sherman tank, and would easily plow right over anyone in our way, so i'm in no danger of getting hurt.


A good example of reading between the lines! Obviously my main concern was for your well-being.

How about posting a video of you, singing? Just you! Before we can consider any kind of company sponsorship deal, we need to know if you can hold a note. You can sing along, but can you sing?
Go on.
https://youtu.be/yDVCWKx0hIM
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Re: Three AM

Postby promethean75 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:03 pm

absolutely out of the question, sir. i am a terrible singer by my own standards; i don't consider the crap that counts as good vocals in modern music to be demonstrative of any real skill. opera and jazz singers are the only people who make a real, sophisticated instrument out of the voice, as far as i'm concerned. the rest is too easy (even though i myself would do it badly and should therefore have no room to criticize... lol).

i'm also of the opinion that instrumental music is so important, such a science in itself, that 'singing' is often an insult to it... like tainting it with human nuance and imperfection. i especially think the emphasis on vocal music in the last half century has contributed to dumbing down the general potential of the art. you can experience the logical extreme of this in rap music; the lack of musical integrity and instrumental skill decreases as more and more emphasis is made on the 'mouth'.

first mankind played instruments and remained silent. next he thought he'd try 'singing' over the music. finally, he forgot the music all together and then just started running his mouth.
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Re: Three AM

Postby promethean75 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:35 pm

i should probably let anna and papa explain what's going on here. might help you better understand what i mean....

"oh papa i hate this! isn't there something else we can listen to," anna snapped as she pushed the small TV off the table. it landed with a metallic thunk, its antennae snapping off. "it's so gross and dumb. why do those girls always shake their butts and why is that ugly black guy with all those tattoos jumping around and singing like that? it's not even music and i hate it!"

across the room papa was working on a musical script for a play he was producing. he sighed, walked over to anna and sat down beside her. anna stared at him expectantly, waiting for him to speak. after a brief pause of thought, papa exhaled and smiled. he admired her look of consternation.

"well anna, do you remember what i told you about the spirit of the age and what the capitalist revolution did to the music industry?"

anna shifted a little and paused a moment, trying to remember correctly so papa would be impressed. she brushed her hair behind her ear and began.

"umm, you said that it revolutionized the modes of production, enabling a sudden increase in the experimental forms of music, right?"

"that's right. and do you remember what else?"

"yeah... you said that it would eventually reach a point where... umm, the motive for profit and productive efficiency would become adverse effects?"

"yes, anna, very good! but adverse effects against what, exactly?", papa inquired. she straightened her posture nervously and pursed her lips as if in deep thought.

"the experimental novelty of music. you said that eventually, music would become more formulaic and standardized because the market would adjust to consumer expectations for predictability and familiarity in the music. then you said that musical integrity would be slowly debased because of such commification."

papa laughed out loud, smiled at anna, and ruffled her hair. she looked at him aghast and confused by his laughter. "that's 'commodification', anna" he reassured her. anna shifted her eyes away from papa's as if embarrassed at her minor mistake, then confidently regained her composure. "yeah that's what i meant."

"and why do we find such vulgarity and profanity in that rap music that was on the TV?" he asked.

"because it's the only thing the intellectually inferior class of consumers who listen to it, can understand and appreciate, that's why. that music characterizes their base, animalistic desires at the crudest level... things like power, sex, and wealth. you said they like the music because through it they identify with and associate such symbols with themselves, things they believe will garner admiration and respect from their peers."

"very impressive, anna! and they do this because their vulgar, unsophisticated nature prevents them from developing that confidence in other ways. by lacking others means to distinguish themselves as exceptional, talented and worthy of respect, they rely solely on the music to fashion their identities and be noticed as such. remember what i said about the rabble?"

"uh-huh. they have simpler tastes are are easily amused due to their lack of intelligence. you said this constitutes the vast majority of the music consumers, and that this compliments the profit motivated capitalist modes of mass production. that's why music is simplified and standardized by formulas. it's easier to make and distribute that way."

anna's brother danny walks in and stops cold before the broken TV on the floor. he scratches his head. "what happened to the TV?"

papa and anna look conspiratorially at each other for a moment, giggling. "anna decided she had had enough, danny", papa announced. "there was a rap video on and apparently it disgusted her."

danny snickered and said "why was she even watching that garbage in the first place?"

"i wasn't watching it, danny!" asserted anna. it was already on because you left it on that channel!"

a brief interlude of argument ensues between anna and danny until anna finally ignores danny and turns her attention to papa.

"tell us the story of the magic land of music again, papa. please?"

"okay, but afterward you to need to practice your major scales and reading. i've written some composition i want you two to work on."

danny settles down beside anna on the couch, hogging three quarters of it. she tugs the blanket away from danny angrily. "scoot over!"

as papa leans back in his chair he lights his pipe and pulls deeply from it. he crosses his legs and the reverie begins...

"once upon a time, long ago, before the birth of the souless music of the twentieth century, there existed a special type of magician called the 'composer'. these composers had the unique ability to give life to sounds that would enchant us and tell us wondrous stories. he was like a mathematician, of sorts, who did with notes what others did with numbers. by giving careful attention to the structures of sequence, pitch, tone, timbre, meter and tempo, he was able to construct a language which organized the composition and melody that brought his notes to life. he could make them dance, or cry, or rejoice, or rage... he could make them tell us stories about love and joy, or war, or melancholy, or triumph, or doubt, or terrible loss, and anything else we are able to feel in our hearts. as this magician assembled the notes on the page he could imagine them animated and moving in a world of their own, and with his spark he would bring them magically to life for us."

"show us, papa! show us the notes... i want to see them!", anna demanded. she was ecstatic by now... gripping her clarinet in her lap as if she'd never let it go.

papa's eyes widened and he glared at anna and danny. this for effect. "do you really want to go to this magical land? you have to be sure."

anna retracted as if hesitant. she loved to play this game with papa when he told the story, pretending as if she were unsure about the journey to come. with a look of mock seriousness on her face, she scratched her chin and pondered the thought. suddenly a glimmer she hadn't noticed before caught her eye and drew her attention; the light from the fire reflected off the smooth finish of her clarinet, and she turned it her her hands, studying its features in wide eyed amazement.

"yes, yes i want to go!" she finally insisted. papa was supposed to look as if he doubted her sincerity. this was part of their game.

"okay, if you're absolutely sure."

and with that papa sat forward in his chair and began to move his hands in a mysterious pattern in front of him. he closed his eyes and began reciting a strange incantation. anna gasped as a greenish haze slowly began to take form in front of papa. the cloud started to swirl and twist and pulse until finally a faint sound could be heard from inside of it. as it got louder and louder, anna stared in disbelief, until finally the audible sound became a melody. then the notes appeared. they moved about like little people... anna now completely captivated by the miniature world taking shape before her.

"i see them, papa... i can see them now!"
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Re: Three AM

Postby derleydoo » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:16 pm

Bravo! =D> Thanks for sharing that.

Particularly liked the following passage:

"once upon a time, long ago, before the birth of the souless music of the twentieth century, there existed a special type of magician called the 'composer'. these composers had the unique ability to give life to sounds that would enchant us and tell us wondrous stories. he was like a mathematician, of sorts, who did with notes what others did with numbers. by giving careful attention to the structures of sequence, pitch, tone, timbre, meter and tempo, he was able to construct a language which organized the composition and melody that brought his notes to life. he could make them dance, or cry, or rejoice, or rage... he could make them tell us stories about love and joy, or war, or melancholy, or triumph, or doubt, or terrible loss, and anything else we are able to feel in our hearts. as this magician assembled the notes on the page he could imagine them animated and moving in a world of their own, and with his spark he would bring them magically to life for us."

Have you decided what song you are going to record for our delectation?
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Re: Three AM

Postby promethean75 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:11 pm

I have. I'm goin' all out in this one....

https://streamable.com/vornq
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Re: Three AM

Postby derleydoo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:00 am

#-o
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Re: Three AM

Postby promethean75 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:11 am

Excellent. My work is done here.

(That'll teach ya to put me on the spot like that)
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Re: Three AM

Postby derleydoo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:29 am

promethean75 wrote:Excellent. My work is done here.

(That'll teach ya to put me on the spot like that)


:lol: Sorry, I didn't realise you were so shy!

Come on. You must have thought about it!
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Re: Three AM

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:45 am

Hurrah! Just realized when it's near 3 am there , it's near 8 pm here. At least one good solid acquisition.
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Re: Three AM

Postby derleydoo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:48 am

UBC News Report

Shut down the airports, Tighten security at the borders. Seal the ports. No one comes in.
We are receiving reports - as yet, unconfirmed - a case of shyness has been detected on American soil. Authorities report that there is no need for any immediate panic. Stay tuned for further updates.
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Re: Three AM

Postby promethean75 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:57 am

No no, I'm not shy... just a terrible singer, so I extend a little respect and spare you the horror. I only post these silly videos of me singing to either irritate the stiffs or get a chuckle from somebody. Go check out the 'ILP karaoke bar' thread for some laughs.
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Re: Three AM

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:55 pm

The salons of Prince Esterhazy where Hayden was court musician, and into it's presence most certainly You and I may not have been invited, could not compare with Prince, the seminal outgrowth off Jazz, all of which represents the breakdown of the bicameral mind, of the birth of tragically scripted mind into a new harmony , the mimicking of which to post modern simulated harmony, into which the aristocratic spirit has been bound and gagged and passed through barter , bought and sold as any commodity, as whether titled to it, or not, so as to dipossess like repoman, by sheer theft of the power through which the will to self determination was decolonized so long , New Orleans of the 20"s the harbinger of the silent peace that prefaced the resumption of that key note.

That phony peace. lasted only so long, the soul could only be felt as a vast silence of idiomatic restraint, breaking phenomenally such a common derivitive.

What is Your preference, Sir?
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Re: Three AM

Postby promethean75 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:03 pm

i don't always understand your posts, meno... but when i do, i prefer dos equis.
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Re: Three AM

Postby surreptitious75 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:12 am


7 minutes past 3 here man and not much to say

Keep the forum fresh people as its that that makes it worthwhile so avoid consensus wherever possible
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Three AM

Postby surreptitious75 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:20 am


Nobody understands Meno and nobody understands Ecmandu the two resident inscrutables of the forum

Inscrutability is so much better than consensus I say but what say you people what say you yes no maybe
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Three AM

Postby MagsJ » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:00 am

surreptitious75 wrote:
Nobody understands Meno and nobody understands Ecmandu the two resident inscrutables of the forum

Inscrutability is so much better than consensus I say but what say you people what say you yes no maybe

Woke up, to go up to bed, after crashing in front of the TV hours ago, after coming back from running a family-pertinent errand, of which I had to ring my oldest sis to confirm then, but only did so now. #-o

I understand the un-understandables of these here boards.. two of which have left the ILP building, so does that make me an un-understandable? or a once was un-understandable who is now not?

Dawn is approaching.. along with trill birdsong, and a weird hum of city noise in the background to my life.. the city awakening from its slumber.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

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Re: Three AM

Postby surreptitious75 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:53 am

You are light years away from being a non understandable so just because you understand them does not make you like them absolutely no no no
In any case we cannot have too many non understandables as it would make communication rather hard which is not ideal for a philosophy forum

The deliciously rich imagination that is the mind of the one billion year old Ecmandu is a wonder in itself even if it makes zero sense to anyone else
Meno is by comparison way more grounded and reserved for his inscrutability is exclusively due to his liberal usage of rather incomprehensible prose
I suggest they have a formal debate in their own idiosyncratic style to see if they are as incomprehensible to each other as to virtually everyone else
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Three AM

Postby derleydoo » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:35 pm

MagsJ wrote:
surreptitious75 wrote:
Nobody understands Meno and nobody understands Ecmandu the two resident inscrutables of the forum

Inscrutability is so much better than consensus I say but what say you people what say you yes no maybe


I understand the un-understandables of these here boards..


Wow! I'm impressed, MagsJ. Perhaps you would be kind enough to decipher Meno's posts for me. Google Translate doesn't do the job! I often feel Meno is saying something quite profound. However, his writing is far too deep for this dolt to comprehend. :-? Of course, you will be well remunerated.
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Re: Three AM

Postby Meno_ » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:36 am

derleydoo wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
surreptitious75 wrote:
Nobody understands Meno and nobody understands Ecmandu the two resident inscrutables of the forum

Inscrutability is so much better than consensus I say but what say you people what say you yes no maybe


I understand the un-understandables of these here boards..


Wow! I'm impressed, MagsJ. Perhaps you would be kind enough to decipher Meno's posts for me. Google Translate doesn't do the job! I often feel Meno is saying something quite profound. However, his writing is far too deep for this dolt to comprehend. :-? Of course, you will be well remunerated.



I'm working through Your doubts, my expressions are stilted and overly analytic, I have a lot ahead of me. Depth is relative and absolute depth has no redeemable qualities, and I know that as such experience is very difficult to describe. What is going on in my life is expressive of what I am trying to describe, and some of it stems from my involvement with alternate writing , some sourced from Zen, some from automatic writing, some placing too much burden on the reader to infer meaning from between the lines.

I'm under no illusion to write another book, and may proceed to. a more expressive style.

The language of philosophy has it's own form, and I feel comfortable with that.

Anyway , thanks for the forbearance.
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Re: Three AM

Postby MagsJ » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:47 am

surreptitious75 wrote:The deliciously rich imagination that is the mind of the one billion year old Ecmandu is a wonder in itself even if it makes zero sense to anyone else
Meno is by comparison way more grounded and reserved for his inscrutability is exclusively due to his liberal usage of rather incomprehensible prose
I suggest they have a formal debate in their own idiosyncratic style to see if they are as incomprehensible to each other as to virtually everyone else

:lol:

Well summarised btw. =D>

derleydoo wrote:Wow! I'm impressed, MagsJ. Perhaps you would be kind enough to decipher Meno's posts for me. Google Translate doesn't do the job! I often feel Meno is saying something quite profound. However, his writing is far too deep for this dolt to comprehend. :-? Of course, you will be well remunerated.
Meno_ wrote:I'm working through Your doubts, my expressions are stilted and overly analytic, I have a lot ahead of me. Depth is relative and absolute depth has no redeemable qualities, and I know that as such experience is very difficult to describe. What is going on in my life is expressive of what I am trying to describe, and some of it stems from my involvement with alternate writing , some sourced from Zen, some from automatic writing, some placing too much burden on the reader to infer meaning from between the lines.

Does that ^^^ help with your comprehension of Meno_'s writings any?

I wonder if Ecmandu will also grace us with a response :-k


..the cat did it.. he done woke me up, with his meowing to let him in, from his night on the tiles.. no dead birds in sight. ;)
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

--MagsJ
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Re: Three AM

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:38 pm

I don't have anything to say other than what I've stated before:

Winning in a zero sum game is a cause, not for celebration, but rather for mourning.

Until everyone understands this, or a critical mass understands this, the species will never move forward, never evolve in spirit.
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Re: Three AM

Postby Meno_ » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:54 pm

I think I get it , but with uncertainty expanding non linearly, by complex variable indeterminacy , it has been notes good.

However , the indeterminacy is the result of determinant reductio , therefore it may be micro managed.?

On another front I like Your idea of hypermirroring , and how it actually can be utilized. It would be interesting to get into that and how it relates to the above .

If in fact the zero sum in terms of the mirroring effect may be explored with very large brushstrokes.

Does this concern any type of reality of possible expression between not only You and me but perhaps other ILP members interested?
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Re: Three AM

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:40 am

Meno_ wrote:I think I get it , but with uncertainty expanding non linearly, by complex variable indeterminacy , it has been notes good.

However , the indeterminacy is the result of determinant reductio , therefore it may be micro managed.?

On another front I like Your idea of hypermirroring , and how it actually can be utilized. It would be interesting to get into that and how it relates to the above .

If in fact the zero sum in terms of the mirroring effect may be explored with very large brushstrokes.

Does this concern any type of reality of possible expression between not only You and me but perhaps other ILP members interested?


People want spontaneity, they just want it controlled at certain metrics.

In hyperdimensional mirror realities, all one need do is change the shape of the mirror to change the metrics towards what suits them.

Remember, you're just reflecting platonic forms, not doing anything to the actual platonic form.
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Re: Three AM

Postby Meno_ » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:32 am

Meno_ wrote:
Ecmando wrote:
Ecmando wrote:/quote]
Remember, you're just reflecting platonic forms, not doing anything to the actual platonic form.



But is this is how deconstructing the
ideal differs from it's preconsructive setting?

In sets the set that includes every other set and even that includes even the set that includes it's self.

As the all inclusive set is set apart that is reconstructive.and then . reconstructive.

In other words, the ideal can not be separated from the real, as in deconstruction.

The object becomes real in a material sense, and Walla, duality, destroys the ideal.

The hyper mirror compensates for the recognition of identity. What happens?

Valery's fixed idea, and the constant mantra of rationalisation of doubting it. (it's certainty) why? Because it , the immaterial, the unseen, the soul has been unsettled, by the coming of uncertainty, by the death of the gods.

That's what I get, but, is this what You meant?

It is merely descriptive, not prescriptive they assert, but hasn't the prescription needed to be written before it could be described?
Description has lost the Catholic faith of the magic of the prophets, and reduced man to the role of the uncertain science, and does need to destroy the differing ego ridden nation state, so that the world will not destroy It's self. (Because the products ofmaxiemce are positive value, if . and only if, man can be trusted to employ them to good use~it is not science is unstable . but man.

There probably is no other way to reduce the evolving hyper reality.
Boring, yet it is what it is?!

It is through the mirror that man can deceive himself.
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Re: Three AM

Postby Meno_ » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:50 am

' In hyperdimensional mirror realities, all one need do is change the shape of the mirror to change the metrics towards what suits them."

By metrics I understand the quantitative or having of the amount of distortion , bringing about a perceptive alteration of the object.
That it suits them refers to the original gage
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