Igor

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Igor

Postby Jakob » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:07 am

Igor was not a nice man.
But his mother loved him.
The End.
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Re: Igor

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:06 pm

Mother's love is often like this. Is that an image for God's love of us--that God loves us regardless of what fuck-ups we are?
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: Igor

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:06 pm

duplicate
Last edited by Ierrellus on Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Igor

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:52 pm

Jakob wrote:Igor was not a nice man.
But his mother loved him.
The End.


Ah, but The End of what? The life that Igor took because his mother in her great love for him (from her pathetic point of view) ignored the fact of his being so despicable and always wanting it his way, that she didn't point him in the right direction, didn't teach him of the great evil that he was capable of nor more importantly, of the great good that he was capable of.

Poor Igor, poor young lady of the streets, both victims of that dastardly maternal instinct gone amuck.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Igor

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:02 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote: maternal instinct


Arcturus, maternal instinct is something you'll never experience.
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Re: Igor

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:46 pm

Trixie Z wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote: maternal instinct


Arcturus, maternal instinct is something you'll never experience.


Oh? What can I possibly say to that? Our maternal instinct can be quite beautiful but it can run amuck. You don't believe this?
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Igor

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:26 pm

"Our" maternal instinct? There is no "us" in the equation. You don't have any maternal instinct, so you can't use that pronoun.
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Re: Igor

Postby Orbie » Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:18 pm

Oh, I thought Arc had a daughter. If so, ipso facto, then the instinct is a given.
Or is there another hidden assumption?
I am a father, and can vouch for paternal instinct.
Or, does mere brevity dictate?
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bow,
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Re: Igor

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:18 pm

So if someone has sex then they automatically have maternal instinct?
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Re: Igor

Postby Orbie » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:25 pm

At least in part. Sex has the maternal feeling about it of getting back, back into the mother, of the reason behind the pointlessness of creation, of seminal re-engagement. That's what's behind the futility of a world of simulacrum, of pornographic onanistic substitutes.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
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Re: Igor

Postby Jakob » Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:11 am

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Re: Igor

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:45 am

For quite a few women the maternal instinct may depend entirely upon her circumstance. A thinking woman will consider the safety and material support available to her and her own experience with her mother, as this also is an important factor in her eagerness to have or not to have a child and for some women all this contributes to making the agonising decision. There are men who can ignite the maternal drive within a woman and her desire to bear him a child becomes the primary outcome of a grand passion.
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Re: Igor

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:28 pm

Orbie wrote:At least in part. Sex has the maternal feeling about it of getting back, back into the mother, of the reason behind the pointlessness of creation, of seminal re-engagement. That's what's behind the futility of a world of simulacrum, of pornographic onanistic substitutes.

I discussed the maternal (Anima) and paternal (Animus) aspects of sexuality in my poem "He Saw the Woman (Anima)", which nobody seems to want to read. :(
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Re: Igor

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:18 pm

Orbie wrote:Oh, I thought Arc had a daughter. If so, ipso facto, then the instinct is a given.
Or is there another hidden assumption?
I am a father, and can vouch for paternal instinct.
Or, does mere brevity dictate?


Hi Orbie,

I have a son and a daughter and my maternal instincts ARE intact no matter what Trixie says. Our maternal instincts are also at work with others too.


But I don't agree with you here, Orbie - not everyone who conceives or gives birth has maternal instincts nor does every man who has a child have paternal instincts. Not every child is one who is wanted.
Abortion alone speaks to that. People are quite willing to abort when a pregnancy becomes inconvenient. Some have been known to kill their own children - to throw them out windows, to drown them.
I think that brain chemistry/the chemicals in the brain play a large part in maternal instinct.

As for the hidden assumption, no, just an un-thought-out bias which is based on something.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Igor

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:24 pm

A Shieldmaiden wrote:For quite a few women the maternal instinct may depend entirely upon her circumstance. A thinking woman will consider the safety and material support available to her and her own experience with her mother, as this also is an important factor in her eagerness to have or not to have a child and for some women all this contributes to making the agonising decision. There are men who can ignite the maternal drive within a woman and her desire to bear him a child becomes the primary outcome of a grand passion.


So your assertion is that a rich man, by virtue of being rich, will ignite a grand passion in his woman, and ignite automatic maternal instinct more so than a less economically fortunate man. This implies that women are innately money-grubbing creatures who do not connect conscious awareness (such as awareness of morning afterpills) to actual decisions and behaviors.
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Re: Igor

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:28 pm

Trixie Z wrote:"Our" maternal instinct? There is no "us" in the equation. You don't have any maternal instinct, so you can't use that pronoun.


I was using the universal "us" - all those who do have children, Trixie, when I said this.
Do you have any children Trixie?
Aside from that, my children would beg to differ with you here - that I have no maternal instincts.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Igor

Postby Orbie » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:40 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
Orbie wrote:Oh, I thought Arc had a daughter. If so, ipso facto, then the instinct is a given.
Or is there another hidden assumption?
I am a father, and can vouch for paternal instinct.

Or, does mere brevity dictate?




Hi Orbie,


I have a son and a daughter and my maternal instincts ARE intact no matter what Trixie says. Our maternal instincts are also at work with others too.



But I don't agree with you here, Orbie - not everyone
who conceives or gives birth has maternal instincts
nor does every man who has a child have paternal instincts. Not every child is one who is wanted.


Abortion alone speaks to that. People are quite willing to abort when a pregnancy becomes inconvenient. Some have been known to kill their own children - to

throw them out windows, to drown them.
I think that brain chemistry/the chemicals in the brain play a large part in maternal instinct.


As for the hidden assumption, no, just an un-thought-out bias which is based on something.




Arc, hello !


I think, rather seeing maternal instinct on an individual basis, with which assumption You agree with is a universal human trait, the exceptions to the rule, such as criminal minds, may not adhere to them. (The instincts)

Instead, when You use such excepting cases a, as those occurring among insensitive and brutish moms who see nothing elevating in motherhood, so much so, that they are willing to do the kinds of despicable things to their children You describe.

That is not a norm, which pertains to members and fm sane society, and in my opinion, does not disprove the universality of this instinct.

Besides, I am sure, that even those women who little value their own children , have inborn maternal instincts, but they are covered up by such psychological stuff, that makes them realize it.

For instance, the leading cause of the murder of young children by their mothers is usually the result of infidelity by their partners, and in their confused minds, these unfortunate and much pitied mothers' confusion, gets the better of them. They simply go bananas, their love for their significant others exceeds that, which they harbor toward their
children. That usually is not their fault.

Incidentally, this sort of revenge murder is fairly common among dysfunctional families, and unfortunately of fairly widespread. Abuse, drugs, liquor addictions, infidelity, insecurity and immaturity all add up among them. They still may harbor deeply buried motherly instincts, but they are wasted by destructive tendencies.

When people are won't to say that this type of behavior proves that some mothers do not rise to the level of being human, for even animals will not kill their children, they forget, that animals do not have to live under extreme psychological duress, which their mates at times impose upon them.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
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Re: Igor

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:37 pm

Trixie Z wrote:

So your assertion is that a rich man, by virtue of being rich, will ignite a grand passion in his woman, and ignite automatic maternal instinct more so than a less economically fortunate man. This implies that women are innately money-grubbing creatures who do not connect conscious awareness (such as awareness of morning afterpills) to actual decisions and behaviours.


You seem to have difficulty in getting beyond a simmering resentment of women.

The morning after pill is an abomination and a responsible man will use a condom.

Let me clarify for you what I initially wrote.

A thinking woman, before becoming pregnant, will consider her circumstance, her future and her ability, to care for her child, whether this will be done by herself or together with the father of her child. Her concerns primarily will be the child's wellbeing, her wellbeing will be secondary.

Irrespective of this, there may be once in a woman's lifetime, a man who ignites a grand passion within her, and the desire to procreate is powerful and mutual, but it may not necessarily be a wise decision, for many reasons and this is the thinking woman's paradox, the very nature of it's sane madness, it's all consuming-ness and it's absolute need to throw caution to the wind.
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Re: Igor

Postby Jakob » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:57 am

Igor went to the butcher shop and ordered a calfs head for the Sabbath and went to clean it in the garage.

When he had been done with that for a while he began to get thoughts in his head. So he walked out onto the pavement and looked around for action. There was none.

He went back inside, and looked at the goats head. He closed the door.

There was a noise. It distracted him. Outside life went about its day.
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Re: Igor

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:51 pm

Is the goat's head a symbol for Wiccan or Satanic worship?
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Re: Igor

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:39 pm

Jakob wrote:Igor went to the butcher shop and ordered a calfs head for the Sabbath and went to clean it in the garage.

When he had been done with that for a while he began to get thoughts in his head. So he walked out onto the pavement and looked around for action. There was none.

He went back inside, and looked at the goats head. He closed the door.

There was a noise. It distracted him. Outside life went about its day.



***********************************************************************



Igor turned around and saw the Laughing Buddha statue which someone somehow had snuck into his living room. . It seemed to have come to life before Igor's very eyes. . It was laughing in such a creepy, menacing way at him. Creepy for Igor? Yeeeeeessssssss. Buddha's roly-poly belly was shaking with such gusto that it sent fear into Igor's heart, so much fear that he could feel his spine tingling as though it was going to burst open. The skin on his feet felt like such a terrible burning that he was forced to run screaming in agony into his bathtub to run the coldest water he could feel upon his feet to soothe them but alas there was no soothing to be had and his feet burned and turned the brightest crimson. Igor cried out in terror.

Somewhere in his mind he could hear the goat's head speaking to him, filled with such disgust for what he had done. He couldn't understand his words, but the lips were moving in such a grotesque and sinister way. The goat opened up his mouth and this great tongue flung out and wrapped itself around Igor's neck. Igor screamed for help and mercy but none came.

The Buddha laughed his demon-like laugh. He roared, almost it seemed, spitting out the words: : "Now do you understand how swiftly love can turn to evil. Your despicable actions, your cruel, gluttonous behavior has turned the angelic spirit within me to a demon.

Igor had never seemed to be so frightened in his life. He managed to untangle himself from the goat's hideous tongue by stabbing it with a knife he kept in his pocket for doing his ungodly evil deeds . He ran out of the house into the night screaming in holy terror. "I'll change, I'll change", he said, his heart beating like a run-away train. Unbeknownst to Igor. the Count stood on the roof laughing til he turned blue in the face, which for that guy, the Count, was quite the rare happening. He saw Igor huffing and puffing as he ran down the hill, half running, half falling over. It felt to Igor as though his brain might explode into a million little pieces.

Then Igor found himself hiding behind this magnifient large rock, large enough indeed to hide him from the monstrous Buddha and the bodiless goat. Once he had calmed down and felt such a wonderful false security entering into him - is there really any othere kind? - he then thought to himself: "No way am I going to change. I got away from him this time, I will again. Next time I will be ready for him. Does he really think that he can scare me? Me Igor?! Hee hee hee hee hee hee.

Then Igor decided to lay down and he took a nap - such a nice nap in the arms of sweet Denial. Ah, but then - then - the Matrix found him, slithered up to him and closed in pulling him in - in - in but oh what a Matrix it was -- a deep, dark, slimy abyss with snakes curling their bodies around him, suffocating him, choking the very life out of him it seemed. The bats chewed on his ears, chewed so hungrily and greedily, lapping up the blood which streamed from Igor's ears, which gave them such renewed energy, spirit and hedonistic satisfaction.

Then Igor could hear nothing more - save for the slightest chilling whispering that came to him, it seemed, out of nowhere. "No, you won't. No, you won't." You Fool of Fools!

And Count Dracula could be heard giggling in the distance.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Igor

Postby Moreno » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:55 pm

Trixie Z wrote:
A Shieldmaiden wrote:For quite a few women the maternal instinct may depend entirely upon her circumstance. A thinking woman will consider the safety and material support available to her and her own experience with her mother, as this also is an important factor in her eagerness to have or not to have a child and for some women all this contributes to making the agonising decision. There are men who can ignite the maternal drive within a woman and her desire to bear him a child becomes the primary outcome of a grand passion.


So your assertion is that a rich man, by virtue of being rich, will ignite a grand passion in his woman, and ignite automatic maternal instinct more so than a less economically fortunate man. This implies that women are innately money-grubbing creatures who do not connect conscious awareness (such as awareness of morning afterpills) to actual decisions and behaviors.


A nice demonstration....

Begin a reponse with So...
follow this with an argument that includes things not said by the other person.
Then strut as if one had performed a relevent reductio ad absurdum or retort.

Wannabe politicians take note: the spin doctor is giving lessons.
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Re: Igor

Postby Jakob » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:14 pm

Ierrellus wrote:Is the goat's head a symbol for Wiccan or Satanic worship?



I think Igor is into a whole different kind of Sabbath.

I just watch.
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Re: Igor

Postby Zoot Allures » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:24 pm

A real man is into only one kind of sabbath, and that's a Black Sabbath :music-rockon:
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Re: Igor

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:42 pm

Jakob wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Is the goat's head a symbol for Wiccan or Satanic worship?



I think Igor is into a whole different kind of Sabbath.

I just watch.

What other type of Sabbath would Igor be observing? He cleans the goatskull of its flesh, nails it to a wall, falls down and worships all things contrary to Christian hope in ideals. Meanwhile the noise outside is oblivious to his careful worship. Which is the real world? The doings inside the garage or the lack of relevance to those outside the garage? Aren't both real in some sense?
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