Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people?

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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby promethean75 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:21 pm

Indeed. The degree to which, and in which, we are able to control the fate of some object, is determined by the kinds of restrictions made upon us when exercising that control. You own a car, you control the fate of the car, and there are laws put into place which restrict what you can do with the car. A human being, on the other hand, and despite whatever 'relation' it has to another human being, cannot be treated the same way as a car; you can't do the kinds of things we do as conventional language users to exercise what we understand as 'ownership', with another human being. The relationship can't be classified as one of ownership, and this not even considering the number of restrictions involved in determining the fate of and/or controlling the destiny of another human being.

There are several things you can do with a car that you can't do with another human being. You can't park a person, or sell a person, or loan a person, or physically modify a person (you can't put a fuel injected carburetor on a person). Neither can the bank seize another person from you.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:56 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:So it's merely a "word game" that people own themselves are not?

That people are independent, or not?

Maybe you have a point, maybe not. The Legal system, however, disagrees with you. It is presumed within the Law, that you are responsible for yourself, as an adult. Independence and Dependence are defined within the tax-code. But, as I mentioned, some people are 'Dependents' from birth to grave. If anything, that is lack of "ownership", not the other way around.


Dependents are much more owners than the executors.

Think of dogs and cats. Those damn things rule the planet.

All joking aside... you don’t know the spirit world. It can literally park you like a car and make you starve to death. It can bite your tongue off with your own teeth, it can force you to cut off all your genitals, put them in a blender and drink it.

We do not own our bodies.

All there is are tentative agreements about custodianship that exist in the cosmos.

That we have certain rights even though we don’t own ourselves.

I’m trying to give you actual imagery of what the spirit world is capable of so you can meditate / contemplate this in ways you’ve yet to contemplate it.

Is there a grand judge who oversees all of this? With ‘free will’ that means nobody has the freedom to really abuse people without punishment. Not really ‘free will’ is it?

I’ll reply to your general thoughts on my general post here and leave it at this for now.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:28 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:Ownership has to do with objects.

No, it has to do with subjects. If you cannot own yourself, you do not own yourself, then you cannot "own" anything else, including objects.

You have claim to nothing, over nothing.


Karpel Tunnel wrote:My relation to my son is much closer and less detached than my relationship with my door, my carpet, my usual soup spoon.

I doubt this. I believe your relationship to your flesh & blood is as dysfunctional, or more so, than Anderson and his relationship with his father.

Ownership is the most powerful and implicit relationship, not the least. If you don't view your own kin as yours, as possessed, as claimed, as (Birth) Rite, as Ownership, then you have a weak or destroyed sense-of-self. You have no sense-of-self. You have no independence. And you don't. We need to start confronting and admitting to hard-truths. Maybe it's true then, that, most people are not in possession of themselves. And we're not joking around. You are not joking around. You represent a growing majority of Western people, who are fundamentally detached, spiritually fractured and cut in two. You do not Own yourself. You do not Own your own kin.

I believe you. You convinced me. You "win" this debate. Good job.

I pity whatever led to such a fracture and fragmentation in your life.


You have no claim over your own son...... the most pathetic thing I've heard in my life.

Maybe God owns him?
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:31 pm

What are Custody battles except claim of ownership of children between biological mother and father?

Why do some people hate their own children? Why do some people love them, and want to keep them?


Bear-in-mind, lots of humans abandon their children. Bear-in-mind, lots of Neglect and Child Abuse. Maybe it's rarer (over 50%) that humans have any 'love', attachment, care, or fondness for their own flesh & blood. I believe we are seeing this, in this thread. Loveless.

No claim over your own kin, over your own kind.


I think this is a symbol of the decade as well.

What are these 'racial' battles, except a rejection of ownership of "one's own kind"?
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:34 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:What are Custody battles except claim of ownership of children between biological mother and father?

Why do some people hate their own children? Why do some people love them, and want to keep them?


Bear-in-mind, lots of humans abandon their children. Bear-in-mind, lots of Neglect and Child Abuse. Maybe it's rarer (over 50%) that humans have any 'love', attachment, care, or fondness for their own flesh & blood. I believe we are seeing this, in this thread. Loveless.

No claim over your own kin, over your own kind.


I think this is a symbol of the decade as well.

What are these 'racial' battles, except a rejection of ownership of "one's own kind"?


Custody battle are about the rights of the child to have the most suitable parent. It’s still about the rights of the child.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:46 pm

promethean75 wrote:There are several things you can do with a car that you can't do with another human being. You can't park a person, or sell a person, or loan a person, or physically modify a person (you can't put a fuel injected carburetor on a person). Neither can the bank seize another person from you.
I can beat my car with a crowbar, I could park it in my garage and put my penis in any of its orifices, even if it is sleeping (not running), I can rip pieces of it off and replace them or not, I could take it down to the junk yard and get it crushed, I can lock it in a dark space for years and never give it gas....I own that thing. I don't own my kid, and he don't own me, even I am his father and he is my child. One can own things, but I can't own a person, not even my kid. I do have authority of various kinds in relation to my kid. I have rights in relation to that child that others, except the mother, do not. But it's not ownership.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:51 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
promethean75 wrote:There are several things you can do with a car that you can't do with another human being. You can't park a person, or sell a person, or loan a person, or physically modify a person (you can't put a fuel injected carburetor on a person). Neither can the bank seize another person from you.
I can beat my car with a crowbar, I could park it in my garage and put my penis in any of its orifices, even if it is sleeping (not running), I can rip pieces of it off and replace them or not, I could take it down to the junk yard and get it crushed, I can lock it in a dark space for years and never give it gas....I own that thing. I don't own my kid, and he don't own me, even I am his father and he is my child. One can own things, but I can't own a person, not even my kid. I do have authority of various kinds in relation to my kid. I have rights in relation to that child that others, except the mother, do not. But it's not ownership.


Sound like you’re extremely rich Karpel. Poor people can’t do things like that to the car they drive and subsist in the world. Does the car then own you if you’re poor?
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:08 pm

This is, what, the third or forth time this weak counter-argument appears?

You do not "own" something... unless you can sell it? unless you can destroy it?



Horrible argument.

No, again, ownership has firstly to do with the things you will not, will never destroy nor sell. It's about what is most precious, fundamental, necessary.



The fact that you and others have this backward, symbolizes your perspective and approach to the concept.

"You do not own something/someone unless you can destroy it."

Falsified.



You 'Own' something, when, it is something you would never destroy, something (someone) that you would defend with your life. You would put your life in front of it. This symbolizes true 'Ownership'.

I only feel pity for these responses. Disgusting. How spiritually broken do you have to be, to have no claim over your own kin?
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby promethean75 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:23 pm

Alright so karpel is on board now with me 'n andy. We three recognize the difference between the meaning of guardianship and ownership. A rather simple few distinctions that you appear to be unable to make, so you equivocate as a result, urwrong.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:24 pm

promethean75 wrote:Alright so karpel is on board now with me 'n andy. We three recognize the difference between the meaning of guardianship and ownership. A rather simple few distinctions that you appear to be unable to make, so you equivocate as a result, urwrong.

That's because you guys keep dodging the matter of selling your own kidney.

Do you, or do you not, 'own' your own body? Do you own your kidney? Both of them? Your liver? Your heart? Your brain?

Maybe, maybe not.


Abortion?

You guys dodged this one too.

I'm waiting....
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:54 pm

It is very easy online to just never admit one is wrong and to waste even your own time saying something idiot. This is where pride gets in the way of even putting forward one's own ideas. This linguistic idiocy could be dropped so easily. An admission, then move on to defend positions

that
do
not
depend
on
this
IDIOTIC
terrible non-argument.

Some people care more about never admitting they are wrong than even moving the world in the direction they want it to move it.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:58 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
promethean75 wrote:Alright so karpel is on board now with me 'n andy. We three recognize the difference between the meaning of guardianship and ownership. A rather simple few distinctions that you appear to be unable to make, so you equivocate as a result, urwrong.

That's because you guys keep dodging the matter of selling your own kidney.

Do you, or do you not, 'own' your own body? Do you own your kidney? Both of them? Your liver? Your heart? Your brain?

Maybe, maybe not.


Abortion?

You guys dodged this one too.

I'm waiting....


I didn’t dodge it. You don’t own any of that shit. Not even your own mind.

Like I stated before: we have tentative agreements about this stuff. You don’t own shit. Not one fucking thing or aspect. That’s why our custodianship agreements are important to us, that even though we don’t own ourselves in any way, we still have rights.

You could want to donate your kidney and the spirit world can override it.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:28 pm

"You're wrong" is not an argument. Use reasons to backup your ideas. (to KT)

Your position is not convincing. I do own myself, my body, my ideas, etc. (to Ecmandu)

Just because you don't own yourself, means that your lack of self-control, applies to anybody else. You speak for you, only.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:07 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:"You're wrong" is not an argument. Use reasons to backup your ideas. (to KT)

Your position is not convincing. I do own myself, my body, my ideas, etc. (to Ecmandu)

Just because you don't own yourself, means that your lack of self-control, applies to anybody else. You speak for you, only.



Urwrong, you literally have no clue what you’re talking about. The spirit world exists. You don’t even own your own thoughts. I hope you never learn that lesson.

Just believe me for the sake of humoring me and contemplate your argument from that if you so desire.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:11 pm

Again, I own my thoughts. You don't own yours. Your problems, are not mine, sorry about that.

I feel bad for you though, that you don't own your own spirit/soul/being/etc.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:12 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Again, I own my thoughts. You don't own yours. Your problems, are not mine, sorry about that.

I feel bad for you though, that you don't own your own spirit/soul/being/etc.


You’ve never been exposed to the spirit world. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:15 pm

No U
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Magnus Anderson » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:35 pm

Urwrong wrote:You do not "own" something... unless you can sell it? unless you can destroy it?

Horrible argument.

No, again, ownership has firstly to do with the things you will not, will never destroy nor sell. It's about what is most precious, fundamental, necessary.


According to the standard definition of the word "ownership", it's perfectly fine to say that you own a car that you want to sell or that you don't like at all. That's English language.

The fact that you and others have this backward, symbolizes your perspective and approach to the concept.


It means that I am not defining the word "ownership" the way you do. In other words, it means I am not speaking the same language as you do. In even more different words, it means I am speaking English language (whereas you're speaking an odd version of it.)

I don't care what kind of language you're speaking, but when trying to interact with other people, make sure you're aware of the possibility that other people are speaking a different language (e.g. an official one.)

The fact that someone is speaking an official language (and not your own strange version of it) does not mean they are childless, that they hate their parents or that they adopt a particular position on parenting. It simply means they speak an official language.

You 'Own' something, when, it is something you would never destroy, something (someone) that you would defend with your life. You would put your life in front of it. This symbolizes true 'Ownership'.


Yes, that's true, in your own version of English language.

That's because you guys keep dodging the matter of selling your own kidney.

Do you, or do you not, 'own' your own body? Do you own your kidney? Both of them? Your liver? Your heart? Your brain?


It makes sense to say that John owns his body. What that means is that John's brain controls John's body e.g. determines the movements of John's limbs.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby MagsJ » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:51 pm

I’m sure humanity would be very surprised, in who really owns who.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:37 pm

Let me make this VERY simple.

Let’s say your grandfather just died.

On that day, let’s make something up that your grandfather always did, like popping his cheek with his index finger.

On the day he died, you’re walking down the sidewalk and some random stranger pops their cheek with their index finger. That person was technically not them!!!

It was your grandfather!!

In fact Urwrong, that kind of stuff happens to YOU constantly!! You just don’t know it, just like the person on the sidewalk didn’t know it.

When you have “the spiritual eye”, you always know who’s possessing you or someone else. You do not have the spiritual eye.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby MagsJ » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:54 pm

I agree with Urwrong and Fixed, more than I do with everyone else here, in that if Ownership means security and accountability, then ownership it has to be, but it’s still not the word I would use. :P
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:04 pm

MagsJ wrote:I agree with Urwrong and Fixed, more than I do with everyone else here, in that if Ownership means security and accountability, then ownership it has to be, but it’s still not the word I would use. :P


You can’t even put two sentences together without contradicting yourself. The argument put forth by the people your defending is that there is no accountability from parent to child. A parent can rape and murder their child because they OWN them! No consequence.

You pay no attention to the more nuanced arguments of guardianship or custodianship (which implies rights for the child as well)
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby MagsJ » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:24 pm

MagsJ wrote:I agree with Urwrong and Fixed, more than I do with everyone else here, in that if Ownership means security and accountability, then ownership it has to be, but it’s still not the word I would use. :P

I repeat, to Urwrong and Fixed, in that parents are accountable for their children’s well-being, and that I was the first to mention custodianship and guardianship in this thread, but someone is claiming otherwise, but why? :-k

I think that The Twit is the pedophile I once banned, and he is now trying to justify his position, because time and fate have now caught up with him, and he is scared.
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:57 pm

MagsJ wrote:
MagsJ wrote:I agree with Urwrong and Fixed, more than I do with everyone else here, in that if Ownership means security and accountability, then ownership it has to be, but it’s still not the word I would use. :P

I repeat, to Urwrong and Fixed, in that parents are accountable for their children’s well-being, and that I was the first to mention custodianship and guardianship in this thread, but someone is claiming otherwise, but why? :-k

I think that The Twit is the pedophile I once banned, and he is now trying to justify his position, because time and fate have now caught up with him, and he is scared.


MagsJ I repeated this three times before anyone, Before someone used the word guardianship without mentioning me.

You? I did a search. Parameters?

Author: MagsJ

Search terms: custodianship guardianship

Hits? Only your last post
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Re: Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people

Postby MagsJ » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:58 pm

He doesn’t deny being THAT pedophle though?

I see that that ^^^ word, has been stricken from the dictionary though, like an ancient disease.
Last edited by MagsJ on Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
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