Telos

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Re: Telos

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:58 am

I am not a Trump denier.
That phrase makes no sense.
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Re: Telos

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:03 am

You got saved by the bell.

See you in a sec.
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Re: Telos

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:09 am

Don't be fresh with me young man.

I know that what Ive proposed in this thread is the end-all of political theory.

It is the final merger of Nietzsche and the foundational thought of the USA.

It is what is hinted at in the beginning pages of this thread.
http://beforethelight.forumotion.com/t7 ... as-all-law

It is the completion.
Now the next questions are all practical, physical, organizatorial, thus psychological, sociological.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Telos

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:15 am

It all comes down to an idea every peasant can understand. Though college educated masses have been shaped so as to not understand precisely this.

You want something? Then be worthy of it.

This is how nature works, so it is how all parts of nature work. And natural rights, would be part of nature.

Man has been very lazy up to this point. Not natural at all. Metaphysics. Thinks things are just given to him by an automaton.

There is no automaton. There is φύσις.
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Re: Telos

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:36 am

Look Pedro, you wouldn't tell Napoleon he was saved because you had to do another thing. Ive never had any match in philosophy. 8 years after I revealed it even my smartest friends are still struggling with the beginnings of VO. Put yourself in my position for a second.
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Re: Telos

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:39 am

Well, all I can do is hope that some day you will come to see things more clearly.
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Re: Telos

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:42 am

I just realize that you need to read everything Sauwelios has written. If you understand something of his logics you may be able to approach mine, and Nietzsche.

Honestly you don't have a clue what the will to power is, if you think it is not prescriptive.

Sauwelios made that part of it his specialty.
A little on the obvious side for me, but then I am what I am.
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Re: Telos

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:46 am

Yeah, Sauwelios... he isn't a revolutionary thinker but he is definitely thorough.
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Re: Telos

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:54 am

To me back then this was always half of a joke, as its just obvious how absurd it seems to other people, but... Ive always loved it too, this honest to god approach of the problem of language. Compared to what one encounters nowadays it is brilliant.



What Heidegger does is extend the notion of will to power beyond the obvious and meaningless semantics of it, he pushes the logic of it to amount to actual ontology, that is, to working knowledge, predictive and such.
Not that any of that goes on in this video, this is just... a careful and cheerful archaeologo-philologist at work with his brushes.
A thinker.
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Re: Telos

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:03 am

Fixed Cross wrote:In fact the case is obviously that whatever rights nature/god grants man, have to be granted by man to man, much like a person is granted life but still has to grant himself that life by doing such things like breathing, drinking plenty of water, not jumping from buildings, and such.

You have to like, exist, i.e. act, in order to.. exist... geddit?

Ohh its so difficult this thing called philosophy right. You always have to like, do stuff. With your brain no less.


People may have their rights revoked when they have themselves infringed on the rights of others. That is written into law, but it is also implicit, one can say. With implicit rights also come implicit obligations.
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Re: Telos

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:14 am

Fixed Cross wrote:Fuukuk. Yu know the brain uses up most of the energy? You wonder where that energy goes in most people.



So here's the deal.

Being equals self-valuing and valuing in terms of that self-valuing. People who don't get that by now are really very slow and should not be considered sentient.

A right can not exist if it doesn't... self-value and value in terms of that self-valuing.


So, a right can only exist if it is able to self-value in terms of the people who bestow it its existence!
Yay.


Oh wait I crossed the 180 IQ line again.

Mea goddamn culpa.

It just happens these Fathers had problematically high IQs too.

And thats what we're going to be getting at, probably; only those people who can understand the necessity of upholding something for it to exist, like, nature upholds itself, will be able to have what we call natural rights.

People have to exist in terms of such rights for these rights to exist to them.

Oh so difficult. So so difficult.


yup, philosophising the fuck out of a pretty straightforward subject, really.

you take a life, your light may be taken
you take property, your property may be take
you take an eye...
I think someone might have carved that up on a rock at some time
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Re: Telos

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:18 am

You mean all this is... self evident ?

8)
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Re: Telos

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:21 am

Fixed Cross wrote:Phon - you were the one who was telling a literary genius that he should have learned in school to write short paragraphs so you could read it on your "android, bitch".
That was classic. And I take no credit for any of that, mind you. None.


History is full of literary geniuses who were social retards.
Not even in that is your friend unique.

Tell him to stop by the forums again sometime when you're done sucking each other off.
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Re: Telos

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:22 am

Fixed Cross wrote:You mean all this is... self evident ?

8)


You better fucking believe it.

Also further evidence that one can say in two words what you said in... how many?
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Re: Telos

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:23 am

Wow you're such a graceful lady. So very free of hate.

Im beginning to think you actually lust over his "10 pack" or whatever.
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Re: Telos

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:24 am

Anyway you all have been educated into human being by Fixed Cross.

Case closed.
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Re: Telos

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:27 am

Fixed Cross wrote:Oh - well I don't like it when people think that a lack of power (such as: lack of power at reading and thinking) is an argument,


Who said that was an argument?
I specifically wrote that I was not critiquing the content.

much less when they resort to vicious personal insults merely for being presented with a lofty text with lofty ideas.
Just rubs me wrong.

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Re: Telos

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:30 am

Fixed Cross wrote:Logic is rather, as I see it at least, the unity of mind and world.

Someone who cant operate logically is just bumbling around without any part in the world.

Someone who has a strong logic to him, is a force to be reckoned with.


This.
100%
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Re: Telos

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:36 am

Fixed Cross wrote:Don't be fresh with me young man.

I know that what Ive proposed in this thread is the end-all of political theory.

It is the final merger of Nietzsche and the foundational thought of the USA.

It is what is hinted at in the beginning pages of this thread.
http://beforethelight.forumotion.com/t7 ... as-all-law

It is the completion.
Now the next questions are all practical, physical, organizatorial, thus psychological, sociological.


I don't see anything new here.
Just a lot of rehashing in convoluted ways things that have already been said in simpler ways by greater men.
Could be because I don't have an IQ of 180, I'll say.
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Re: Telos

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:46 am

Fixed Cross wrote:Wow you're such a graceful lady. So very free of hate.

Im beginning to think you actually lust over his "10 pack" or whatever.


I like my men to have a bit of padding on them, you know? An even layer of healthness all around.
Like a brisket.
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Re: Telos

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:03 am

In regard to what particular context, pertaining to what particular folks construed to be slaves not deserving of what particular gift from the Founding Fathers?


Fixed Cross wrote:Its simple. Lefties deserve a properly Leftie government. I know governments like my work too well for me to ever get in trouble with them, left or right. Im lucky like that. And Im deciding now to let my luck ride.


Right, like that has anything at all to do with this:

Is this what passes for "serious philosophy? with you? Or is it all just tongue in cheek?

As that either does or does not relate to what he himself presumes makes America "great".


Fixed Cross wrote:If Trumps victory has shown anything it is that America, save for Trump and his brave, hardline supporters, is pretty damned far from being Great. Probably no country has so many fanatical illiterates.


In fact, the closest I can come to explaining his "white working class base" is either here: https://youtu.be/Qf9DE59yrs0

Or here:

Maurice Brinton in The Irrational in Politics:

Wilhelm Reich set out to elaborate a social psychology based on both Marxism and psychoanalysis. His aim was to explain how ideas arose in men's minds, in reaction to the real conditions of their lives, and how in turn such ideas influenced human behavior. There was clearly a discrepancy between the material conditions of the masses and their conservative outlook. No appeal to psychology was needed to understand why a hungry man stole bread or why workers, fed up with being pushed around, decided to down their tools. What social psychology had to explain however is not why the starving individual steals or why the exploited individual strikes, but why the majority of starving individuals do not steal or why the exploited individuals do not strike.


What was it...Reich asked, which in the real life of the oppressed limited their will to revolution? His answer was that the working class was readily influenced by reactionary and irrational ideas because such ideas fell on fertile soil. For the average Marxist, workers were adults who hired their labor power to capitalists and were exploited by them. This was correct as far as it went. But one had to take into account all aspects of working class life if one wanted to understand the political attitude of the working class. This meant that one had to recognize some obvious facts, namely that the worker had a childhood, that he was brought up by parents themselves conditioned by the society in which they lived, that he had a wife and children, sexual needs, frustrations and family conflicts....Reich sought to develop a total analysis which would incorporate such facts and attach the appropriate importance to them.


In learning to obey their parents children learn obedience in general. The deference learned in the family setting will manifest itself whenever the child faces a 'superior' in later life. Sexual repression----by the already sexually repressed parents---is an integral part of the conditioning process.

According to Reich, the 'suppresion of natural sexuality in the child....makes the child apprehensive, shy, obedient, afraid of authority, 'good', and 'adjusted' in the authoritarian sense; it paralyzes the rebellious forces because any rebellion is laden with anxiety; it produces, by inhibiting sexual curiosity and sexual thinking in the child, a general inhibition of thinking and of critical faculties. In brief the goal of sexual repression is that of producing an individual who is adjusted to the authoritarian order and who will submit to it in spite of all the misery and degradation....the result is fear of freedom, and a conservative, reactionary mentality. Sexual repression aids political reaction, not only through this process which makes the mass individual passive and unpolitical, but also by creating in his structure an interest in actively supporting the authoritarian order'.

Psychologists and psychiatrists have written pages about the medical effects of sexual repression. Reich however constantly reiterated its social function, exercised through the family. The purpose of sexual repression was to anchor submission to authority and the fear of freedom into people's 'character armour'. The net result was the reproduction, generation after generation, of the basic [psychological] conditions essential for manipulation and enslavement of the masses.


Leaving out the part about "orgone energy" perhaps.

Instead, these chumps rally around Trump thinking that he will take us back to, as phoneutria suggested, "the fifties". The whitest and most reactionary and God fearing America has been in recent times.
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Re: Telos

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:30 am

Fixed I honestly feel bad about being largely responsible for parodites quitting the forum.
Tell him I'll be good.
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Re: Telos

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:10 am

Look, hate is something thats real in the world. At one point, the prophet of love has to show some hate too. Show how easy that shit is. Hate is the easiest thing to follow. Cortisol. Addictive in the same way as coffee is.
I was startled recently at the amount of racist hate in a 9gag comment section under a meme of a... well some very weird reverse racist meme. Which could or could not have been engineered. What was real was the none-black on black racism. Just appalling, if I were black Id not be okay right now. Its not been this bad even on 4chan. 9gag is Hong Kongese, that probably means something here.
I figured we should start a non racist or even antiracist pro Trump group, discord group. As racism on the right is an important element to subdue. Cant have Euclidean rights as a racist.
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Re: Telos

Postby promethean75 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:46 pm

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Re: Telos

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:30 pm

that's what I'm talking about
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