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Re: Language

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:24 pm
by Aegean
promethean75 wrote:
The power of negation.
it doesn't require much effort. Just deny and negate, powered by cynicism.

Oh shit my bad. I meant to agree with what you said. I dunno what got into me. Probably the spirit of abrahamic nihilism or something... which is usually the conspiring force behind the logic of semantics.

Or at best I should have said:

"I'm sorry sir, but this is demonstrably false and logically impossible, maybe, but not absolutely, because if it was demonstrably false and logically impossible, I would no doubt be a nihilist because of that."
You are wrong.
easy, peasy….parcheesy.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:27 pm
by Aegean
Artimas wrote:
Similar to how religion is externalization of man’s inner psyche and self projected identity in present moments of continuity.

Remind me of Trixie.
I'll disregard the Trixie insult at the end.
Religion is, indeed, the externalization of man's idealization of himself.

The Abrahamic triad, in particular, externalized the abstractions in the mind - where absolutes are created.
Mind is worshipped by nihilist
It is 'free' from the body's limitations, and is considered divine - magical.
Denial of the body is about denial of the physical, the tangible, the empirical.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:53 pm
by Aegean
We can now see the relationship between mind/body dissonance and how religions - the Abrahamic triad - deny body, and worship mind - mind detached from body.
Self is idealized as being 'spirit', unrelated to the physical, the body.
language expresses this disconnection, as this occurs in the nervous system, including the brain, from where mind extends.
Language ceases to refer to the experienced, the tangible, the empirical, and increasingly refers back to mind - solipsism.
A self-referential system is established.
Words connecting the ego to its own emotions, sensations, abstractions, or to external abstractions in text. Circumventing the experienced world we call reality, ro natural order.
See how philosophy has become about commentary on other mind's commenting on other minds commenting on reality. Reality is pushed to the periphery. All that matters are scripts, abstractions, theories.
Nothing objective to limit and to discipline subjective minds to reality.
An alternate world of fantasies metaphors, sensations, and emotions.
Philosophy becomes political, psychological manipulation, exploitation using words to trigger and to seduce and to manipulate.

Then the nihilists declare language meaningless - void of substance - because they made it so.

I call Abrahamics people of the book, by the book, for the book. It's all codes and innuendoes and allegories, because reality is denied relevance. There's a hidden, occult pseudo-reality underneath ro beyond the experienced one.
A pseudo-reality constructed entirely of linguistic codes - semiotics. 'First there was the word - logos. Language as world creator. We remain within Abrahamic contexts - texts. Even secular variants, like Marxists and humanists, are entrenched in this paradigm.
Baurdillard. Desert of the Real

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:18 pm
by Aegean
Orwell gives us an overview of how language can be used to limit thinking and shape consciousness - under a Marxist type regime, i.e., secularized Abrahamism.
But controlling thought cannot only be accomplished by criminalizing some words, or erasing words to eliminate the cocnepts….it can also take a more insidious path, currently underway.
Language can be warped, so that the mind is not aware that something is occurring, or something is prohibited, rising his interest.
Gradual erosion of words and their meanings can accomplish the same outcome.

Words/symbols can be detached from their external, objective, references, so as to convert them to ideological constructs - make them subjective.
The process will not be resisted by the average dolt, because this detachment is experiences as a relief - an escape, from an indifferent threatening reality that offers only challenges, insults and brutality.
Mediocre minds will embrace this new application of words, as salvation from the unyielding and uncaring physical world.
Over time they may even forget the original use and application of the words they are using. Language will be idealized and converted to obscurantism and occultism.

See how they corrupted the word 'god', or how they are currently attempting to do the same with the words 'male/female', or 'race'.
Morality has been given a similar treatment.
It has become a word that can either remain universal morality, ro immorality - either/or is the binary dualities of the nihilistic paradigm.
If it is not absolute one, then it must be absolutely nil; if the will is not absolutely free, then it must be absolutely un-free, a slave.
Herd psychology. Stoicism as the only reaction to a state of absolue slavishness.
The absolute need not be named 'god' but may acquire a new branding and named 'oneness' 'whole', 'order'....with the right degree of pseudo-intellectual scientific lingo to make it seem like it is a new product - updated and improved nihilism.
The anthropomorphic imagery has been 'overcome', Now the same concept is entirely abstract, so as to be more globally seductive.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:42 pm
by promethean75
Meaning...indicates relationships and their degrees.

Seeking meaning, defined as magical, as absolute, as supernatural, makes the word 'meaning' meaningless.

no it doesn't, and let me explain. statements don't have to be 'true' to be meaningful, and creating meaningful statements is not a matter of mapping the logical form of the world. what makes a statement meaningful is its use-value in its particular language game. statements about 'god', for example, are not true in the verificationists sense (which seeks to map the world logically), but can be quite meaningful in other ways. one says 'the mighty zeus'. this of course is not true, because there is no zeus. but the existence of zeus, or not, is not what that statement is trying to convey. what it does convey, implicitly, are the kinds of things that can be meant by that statement indirectly; zeus is not to be fucked with, zeus is all powerful, zeus is glorious, etc.

the use-value of such a statement is determined by examining the context around which the implicit meanings become effectual in their purpose. with that statement one might be saying to an enemy 'is you mess with us, zeus will have your ass.' again, this is certainly not true, but it's purpose is not to make a statement about a feature of the world that is true or not. and, if the enemy, upon hearing that statement, decides to back the fuck off, we can say that they found the statement to be quite meaningful.

but i see what you're trying to do in your own special way. and that is complete an inventory of what kinds of words can mean anything at all, something which you feel yourself to be the proper arbiter of. problem is, all philosophers believe they are the arbiter of this, and yet so many of them disagree. now it could be that one or more of them are right and the rest are wrong, or all of them are wrong. fortunately for these guys, verifiable statements of fact are either handled quite well already by the natural sciences, or are simply tautologies and a matter of definitional logic. that being the case, there isn't much left for them to do but argue about what words mean in a linguistic and conceptual environment that is free from the restrictions of these two fields. free to roam in a more or less poetic atmosphere in which nothing can really be true or false, right or wrong. or better yet, free to construct elaborate theses that are founded and supported by more elaborate theses, none of which can actually be denied or confirmed beyond their correspondence to each other (which becomes a circular progression).

so i like to divide most philosophers up into two camps. it's easier that way and you don't have to spend much time sorting through their nonsense. you have the logicians, the sharper ones, who make it their task to transcend the naturalistic fallacy and make of value statements something solid like statements about facts, events and affairs in the world (which they have mastered). these are the guys who try to give moral direction to the natural sciences, you might say. then you have the emotivists who, lacking logical rigor, try to do the same thing... but with a much more ambiguous and obscure language... making them poets. with the former, you find a competent and honest attempt to 'solve problems', although it never works. with the latter, you find that philosophy is more of an emotional sounding board through which you have a terribly confused person trying to make sense of his frustration by forcing his thoughts into what he perceives (and hopefully others too) as clear and sensible expression.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:46 pm
by Aegean
Totally wrong...and only I can understand why.
I'm brilliant.

Shit....I like it.
It's so easy and fun.
Negate, dismiss, and them imply one's own greatness, as you patronizingly laugh.
Fuck...I did not know how powerful the nil truly is.
Give me any topic and any opinion, and I'll obliterate it.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:51 pm
by Aegean
Concerning the meaning of meaning.

Picked this shit up on-line. Written by some douche-bag

Meaning of Meaning
Living in an age of Nihilism means we live in an age of institutionalized autism, of feminization, of idiot savants, and of literate illiterates, or educated ignoramuses.
Moderns know a lot, but understand little. They have a fluency based on two-hundred, or so, words, and of those with a bigger vocabulary few actually understand the words they are using. They know the dictionary definition, but they cannot connect the term to a real world phenomenon. Instead the symbols/words hover in a state of limbo awaiting some charlatan to connect them to their own abstractions. As such the very meaning of the concept “nihilism” has been converted to its antithesis: defining a world void of manmade concepts, such as “god,” “whole,” “one,” “morality,” taken as universal absolutes, in other words understood as a world lacking what the mind has constructed, abstracted and considers literally, rather than as representation. This world, lacking their fabrications they call “negative”.
Moderns not only live in the delusion inside their own had, but they refuse to exit them. They prefer the words to remain meaningless, because then concepts like sex and morality and race can be dismissed as social constructs. If this is how nihilism has been used and abused, then what of the meaning of the word “meaning” itself.
Moderns use the word but they do not really understand what it means. All they know is the dictionary definition, and this is what they consider its meaning. But what does meaning really mean, if we wish to connect the linguistic convention, facilitating communication, found in dictionaries, and connect it to a real world, real life utility? To begin let us sample the meaning of the term, in the Greek, bringing us back to a shared tradition which Anglo-Saxon English fails to fully connect with. The equivalent of meaning, in Greek, would be {Νόημα}, comprised of two words: νοώ, or νους, and νήμα = thread. Rooted in the word νέομαι = to turn, re-turn, as when you weave thread together. Therefore, meaning means to turn, weave, in the mind, or to return, the thought to the world. To place in mind and then return to world. To weave, in mind, the world.
Meaning refers to the relationship of observed patterns (phenomena), as interested by a mind (noumenon). What we mean, by meaning, is our own understanding of how the different phenomena we experience relate to one another, as we’ve interested their relationships in our mind. To say something is ‘meaningless’ is to accuse it of lacking all cohesive relationship. These relationships may refer to external phenomena or may be entirely in our head, because in our head the relationships are more easily connected, whereas in reality they may refuse to abide by the observing mind’s will.
Now we add a new word: nonsense. Nonsense refers to meaning that lacks all sensual references. It lack sensuality, it is non-sense. When a meaning makes sense, it has an internal relationship corresponding to an external one. The esoteric abstractions is in harmony with an observable external relationship between phenomena, or patterns interacting. It is possible for a nonsensical relationship to be constructed din the mind, and in fact most Moderns live within these constructs – they live in a nonsensical world of their own making that has no reference outside their own minds. They may have given their constructs meaning, by abiding by a dictionary definition, but instead of referencing a world outside their brains, they have established noetic relationships inside their head, where the real world cannot contradict them. They live in a world full of meaning, but of no sense – a nonsensical world, or a world of meaningful nonsense.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:58 pm
by Aegean
Going on the map metaphor. Meaning is the relationships between points on the map. Elevation, distances, terrain...etc.
Matrices of inter-connectivity - relationship.

Now a map like Tolkein's Middle Earth has meaning - internal, theoretical, abstract, because it certainty has no meaning beyond that.
A map's meaning is found in the geography it represents - art, semiology.
It gives the destination and the effort it would require to attain it.
This is both where it derives its value and its meaning. The intertwining relationships are the maps of meaning.
The world is full of them.
So anyone that claims the world is meaningless is a moron, or a hypocrite.
What such a buffoon usually that no external agency has given it meaning - has not translated the relationships for the moron. He needs to be given the destination and all the variables.

The triangulation of meaning.

Words are the map, representing a geographical place and its relationship with other places.

Now imagine a totally meaningless map. Scribbles, blotches….surreal art.
The fArtist will claim there si hidden, occult meaning, in the meaningless garbage. The gullible moron will not want to expose his idiocy and will claim that he sees it.
The garbage now acquires meaning in tis meaninglessness. It is so void of meaning that the observer can project whatever he desires into it.
A clever fArtist - like hebes - may include some suggestive discernible shapes, to trigger inspiration and bring out the observers needs/desires.
Trash now has value and can be purchased for millions of dollars, based on its meaninglessness. It's potential to remain open to any interpretation and be given meaning, from inside the one looking at it.

A map not of a real geographical area, nor of a fantasy alternate reality....but a map completely void of meaning, awaiting meaning to be projected into it. A map made to reflect light in particular ways depending on from what direction you come at it. So an interactive map that is constantly changing, and every time open to the psychological state of the individual on that moment.

Value - the distances, elevations, approximating the effort required - relative to the subject's needs and talents.
Value only makes sense, has meaning, as a triangulation pf subject with objective/destination/goal within world/objective reality.
Meaning is this relationship.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:33 pm
by phoneutria
You are wrong.


Holy shit.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:47 pm
by phoneutria
You are though.

Binary is based on the presence or lack thereof of an electrical current.

Cells cannot perform systolis and dyastolis.
Unless you're talking about muscle cells... right? I mean, can we get someone in here who speaks greek?

The meaning of meaning would be meaningless if there was no meaning. For words come to existence when there is a need for them.
Without meaning, both word and its negation would obliterate themselves, like mater and anti-mater.

See? I too can say confusing shit that has no relevance in the world.
I might put this on a stick, it will be the new summer sensation. Bullshitsicles.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:35 pm
by Aegean
phoneutria wrote:You are wrong.


Holy shit.
Nobody cares what you have to say.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:28 pm
by Aegean
Language either connects consciousness to reality, or it projects its reaction.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:42 am
by Aegean
An example of the manipulation and corruption of language, using genes/memes.
Gender is the social application of naturally evolved specialized reproductive roles, yet gender is claimed to be a social construct, when it is a natural 'construct' applied within manamade socioeconomic contexts.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:49 am
by Aegean
An example of the manipulation and corruption of language, using genes/memes.

Semites are an Afro-asiatic group of tribes.
Judaism is a dogma, an ideology.

Not all Semites ae Jews; not all Jews Are Semites. Yet, antisemitism is used as a defensive reaction to all critiques against the dogma/ideology of Judaism.
It would be like saying any critique of Soviet Style Communism - Stalinism - is anti-Slavic, or any critique of Christianity, granddaughter of Judaism, is anti-European, because Europeans practice it.

Judaism is an ideology, entirely based on linguistics. It has no tangible, corporeal, empirical meaning. It is pure ideology - a world-view.
It evolved to parasitically exploit other tribes, similar to gypsies.
The manipulation and exploitation of language is how they achieve this. like gypsies they are known, from ancient times, as peddlers of superstitions, and exploiters of feebleness and ignorance.
To this day they manipulate codes - abstractions - such as money, and exploit human need, through fArt. They never produced any fine art - realism - but were always involved in the surreal, the abstract.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:57 am
by Aegean
An example of the manipulation and corruption of language, using genes/memes.

Race is not about a single trait, like pigmentation.
Race is to the human specie, what breeds are to horses ro dogs.
Race is about inheriting potentials, not about superior or inferior generalities.
Depending what traits you value determines what race you consider superior.

Race is not a social construct, but its reinterpretation is a social construct.
Like trying to convince th world that tis own senses evolved to trick it rather than aid it in distinguishing important and pragmatic differences.
Sensual awareness evolved to distinguish and discriminate...using the subtlest of divergences. What looks different, is most likely different. The degree of difference, implies the degree of relevance.

Past is made present, and interpreted by consciousness, as appearance.
Appearances can be misleading, and can evolve to imitate or to camouflage - to pretend - because they are so significant.

Past is never absent, even if denied or forgotten. Past is continuously made present.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:04 am
by Aegean
An example of the manipulation and corruption of language, using genes/memes.
Beauty is not in the 'eye of the beholder'.
Beauty is symmetry and proportionality - the latter a compromise made to a cosmos that is not entirely ordered but also chaotic.

Symmetry and proportionality indicate resistance to fluctuations - interactivity, just as skin, hair, physical shine and smoothness indicates resistance to parasites and to disease - a healthy autoimmune system; and hip to chest and waist ratios - proportions - indicate fertility.

Eye of the beholder, si code for...what you can get. What level you are able to settle for.

Feeling beautiful making another feel good - i.e., feel beautiful - is not the same. This has to do with personality.

Symmetry and proportionality of body is not the entire story.
There is symmetry and proportionality of mind, expresse in demeanour, humour, grace, etc.

Attraction for humans occurs on two levels, one superior to the other, depending on the individual's own quality of mind.
Body & mind - for males
Mind & Body, for females. And this difference is due to the females specialize reproductive role which is dependent no others during gestation and weening.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:44 am
by phoneutria
Aegean wrote:Nobody cares what you have to say.

That is a fact.
And the difference between you and me is the denial on your part.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:54 am
by Aegean
So presumptuous.
Had a cousin like you
Kept repeating'
Nobody cares!!! In time I realized he was talking about himself and his own failed expectations. An attempt to silence me.

What makes you think I think you ought to care?
Who cares if you care? Telling me changes nothing...only makes you feel better about what is being exposed.
You, are bottom feeder.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:01 am
by phoneutria
Artimas wrote:
phoneutria wrote:Sorry to derail your thread gramps, but as you friend it is my duty to tell you that nobody cares about you or your ideas, including me.
Now say something funny. Cmon.

Wow I haven’t seen you in a long time Phon, how you been?

Can't complain.
Really, I can't complain. My record is in secrecy.

I've been busy creating artwork that is not safe to view in the workplace and then gathering hoards of persons to view them and flatter my ego, and then purchase them for currency.
You too can do all of the above by going here

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:01 pm
by Aegean
The definition and application of words exposes the mind's motives.
if the individual wants to engage reality,, and gain an understanding of it and its own place in it, it will define words in ways that clarify its relationship with the unknown.

If it wants to escape reality into an alternate one, or wishes to use words to exploit imbeciles, by selling them dreams of power and eternity and fame and fortune, then you define words vaguely, obscurely, not to reveal but to conceal - to cover with a Mayan veil of mysteriousness, implying more than it can deliver.
This attracts the desperate and the hopeless. Anyone that is dissatisfied with existence as it is.
He gains a following. A cult is formed. specialized lingo, develops to distinguish and make them feel district. Like being chosen to know what few know.

In these times of lost families and declining Americanism, plenty of such lost souls to go around.
This is nothing new. Messiahs, prophets, doomsday preachers, superstition peddlers, snakeoil salesmen….emerge and flourish in times of strife and decline.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:00 pm
by Aegean
The biggest linguistic myth, believed in literally rather than figuratively, is the concept of 'one', and its negative 'nil'.

Based on the diastolic/systolic rhythms of cells - inhale/exhale.
It manifests as a binary ideology - 1/0.
Mathematics is a language and like all languages it is an art-form - representational.
Believing ni it literally is how the moron seeks relief in his own abstractions. It would be like painting a scene and then immersing self in it, or like Hollywood, producing alternate realities, full of propaganda that encompasses and delightfully traps the masses in an alternate world they prefer.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:41 pm
by Aegean
Where deeds falter, let words be our salvation.
Where reality does not yield, let ideals surrender us to fantasy.

Words magical words.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:46 am
by Aegean
Cleansing language of over 2,000 years of Abrahamic filth, is a start.
Like shining a ight in an occult, twilight, where shadows can be declared to be monsters, or gods, or ghosts from the past...and the antithetical merge, as if they were one.
Cleansing language disarms charlatans, Messiahs, prophets, astrologers, obscurantists, and superstition peddlers.
It reveals what they seek to conceal and in the concealment exploit human fears.

Practice for the mind what you do for your body.
Exercise, cleanliness, good diet, and preventative medicine.

Stop giving away yourself to parasites who prey upon your fears, hopes and anxieties, with linguistic nonsense.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:53 am
by Aegean
A good teacher is like a good father.
Someone who raises his students, his children, to become independent from his support and guidance; someone who makes himself obsolete, because he teaches how to engage reality directly.
A hypocrite and a fake, does the opposite.
His words are meant to cultivate dependence and mediators.

Language clarifies. It does not obscure.
Language reveals, it does not conceal.

Nieatzsche wrote:They muddy the water to make it seem deep

He who understands simplifies, reveals, so that even a simpleton sees.
He who is a simpleton, complicates, conceals, to lord over other simpletons.

Re: Language

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:45 pm
by Aegean
Morality simply means an adherence to the collective and its well-being.
Good/Bad, not good/evil, in this context implies an advantage ro disadvantage produced by the choices of the individual in regards to group hierarchies, preserving group cohesion and stability.

We cannot say if abortion or capital punishment is good or bad unless we establish what the organizing ideal of the group is - in this case society.
This means that there is no objective moral standard but neither is morality subjective, or a social construct. Rather it is society which is a product of a moral standard and an overt or covert ideology.

Advancing form moral behaviour towards ethical codes, signifies an advancement from natural environments into manmade, artificial, systems. A technological shift from genetic codes, to memetic semiotics.
A body/mind conflict is unavoidable when the mind imposes additional rules on the organisms conduct; a lucid imposition over subconscious impulses.