These are not universal truths...

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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby phyllo » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:01 am

Ecmandu wrote:No matter who you are, you still have a value system, and that immediately makes you not a nihilist.

A true nihilist would just sit and die of dehydration, but the joke is in them, because they had the value of no value
Nihilists can have a personal value system but not a universal one.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:22 am

phyllo wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:No matter who you are, you still have a value system, and that immediately makes you not a nihilist.

A true nihilist would just sit and die of dehydration, but the joke is in them, because they had the value of no value
Nihilists can have a personal value system but not a universal one.


News to me. You mean that moral system that applies to all beings (objective) that there are no objective morals? A direct contradiction !

I just made a post about truth tables in philosophy...

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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby phyllo » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:34 am

News to me. You mean that moral system that applies to all beings (objective) that there are no objective morals? A direct contradiction !
That's a set empty of morals. Therefore it's not actually a contraction since it's a non-system.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:37 am

phyllo wrote:
News to me. You mean that moral system that applies to all beings (objective) that there are no objective morals? A direct contradiction !
That's a set empty of morals. Therefore it's not actually a contraction since it's a non-system.


You have to make a positive statement to make the claim, which makes it not an empty set, which means exception is allowed into the system, which makes the system self contradictory
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:08 am

"If "reality" doesn't mean "the empirical world" to you, you're probably a philosopher. If it does, you can relax. You're gonna be okay. "

Our king Alexander held his Christmas speech and he soothed us by saying "If you're down on your luck, don't worry, its okay".
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:35 pm

viewtopic.php?p=2746712#p2746712

Observer wrote:There doesn't seem to be anything incoherent about any of that so is the real question merely whether any such thing as a universal truth exists?


If we define truth as an accurate representation of some portion of the universe, then the following quote is weird.

Wikipeda wrote:A truth is considered to be universal if it is logically valid (logical) in and also beyond all times and places.


It makes no sense to say that a representation is accurate "today" and not accurate "tomorrow" or that it is accurate "in Africa" but not accurate "in Australia".

Either it's accurate or it is not.

Instead, it is what we think is true that can differ from one moment to another and from one place to another.

People tend to confuse "what someone thinks is true" with "what is true".

Merriam Webster wrote:Truth definition is - the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality


This quote has a different problem. Truth \(\neq\) reality. Truth refers to a representation of reality. It does not refer to reality itself.

Observer wrote:It is true that women are shorter than men. But it is not universally true. It is true as an average, not a universal truth.


This, on the other hand, makes sense.

In this case, the term "universal truth" can be interpreted to be a reference to a representation that is accurate but not completely accurate. If we say something like "Every women is shorter than every man" then this is clearly not completely true, since some women are taller than men, but it's also not completely false, since most women are shorter than men.

(On the other hand, if it wasn't meant to be taken literally, if it literally means something like "On average, women are shorter than men", then the statement is completely true.)
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby promethean75 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:40 pm

"Every women is shorter than every man" then this is clearly not completely true, since some women are taller than men, but it's also not completely false, since most women are shorter than men.


Godammit Andy. That statement is completely false because of the existential quantifier 'every'.

I hope you aren't making the same mistakes over in the math thread because I got a lot riding on it. If you lose, these guys are gonna want their money.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:56 pm

promethean75 wrote:Godammit Andy. That statement is completely false because of the existential quantifier 'every'.


There's still some truth left to it.
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