Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:38 pm

Ecmandu wrote:For every apologetics you have, I can find a more persuasive anti:

https://infidels.org/library/modern/pau ... tions.html

This is the Information Age after all.


True. That's why we have Pascals Wager. :)
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:42 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:For every apologetics you have, I can find a more persuasive anti:

https://infidels.org/library/modern/pau ... tions.html

This is the Information Age after all.


True. That's why we have Pascals Wager. :)


We know that the reverse wager is more true than Pascal's wager, which still! !!! You haven't addressed here!!

Like I stated before: echo chamber
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:47 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:For every apologetics you have, I can find a more persuasive anti:

https://infidels.org/library/modern/pau ... tions.html

This is the Information Age after all.


True. That's why we have Pascals Wager. :)


We know that the reverse wager is more true than Pascal's wager, which still! !!! You haven't addressed here!!

Like I stated before: echo chamber


There is no evidence for your reverse wager, so it's easily dismissable.
Last edited by FreeSpirit1983 on Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:48 pm

It's true by definition and pascals is not.

That's all the evidence you need.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby surreptitious75 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:49 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Then why do courts allow for eyewitness testimony ?

If you met 500 people that claimed to have seen a man at lunch would you believe them ?

Forensic evidence is far more reliable than eyewitness testimony which is very unreliable in multiple ways
Even where witnesses are absolutely certain they can still be wrong and their claims may be hard to falsify
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:51 pm

Ecmandu wrote:It's true by definition and pascals is not.

That's all the evidence you need.


Lol no. You have no evidence.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:52 pm

surreptitious75 wrote:
FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Then why do courts allow for eyewitness testimony ?

If you met 500 people that claimed to have seen a man at lunch would you believe them ?

Forensic evidence is far more reliable than eyewitness testimony which is very unreliable in multiple ways
Even where witnesses are absolutely certain they can still be wrong and their claims may be hard to falsify


I'll take the word of 500 eyewitnesses. Wouldn't you?
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:53 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:It's true by definition and pascals is not.

That's all the evidence you need.


Lol no. You have no evidence.


You're laughing at yourself, not me.

Echo chamber.

Some day you'll understand.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:55 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:It's true by definition and pascals is not.

That's all the evidence you need.


Lol no. You have no evidence.


You're laughing at yourself, not me.

Echo chamber.

Some day you'll understand.


You're ignorant on this topic.

When you're dead, you'll understand...hopefully you'll repent.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:04 pm

I don't repent, I atone.

The idea that you can stand in judgement of me is laughable.

Your judgement day will look like this:

The judge: "freespirit is too stupid to judge, just let freespirit into heaven"

And then you'll hear people laughing at you.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:11 pm

Ecmandu wrote:I don't repent, I atone.

The idea that you can stand in judgement of me is laughable.

Your judgement day will look like this:

The judge: "freespirit is too stupid to judge, just let freespirit into heaven"

And then you'll hear people laughing at you.


You better hope you're right!
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:01 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:I don't repent, I atone.

The idea that you can stand in judgement of me is laughable.

Your judgement day will look like this:

The judge: "freespirit is too stupid to judge, just let freespirit into heaven"

And then you'll hear people laughing at you.


You better hope you're right!


I don't have to hope.

Jesus is "oops, sorry"

Forever and ever and ever.

Atonement has substance.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby surreptitious75 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:13 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
I will take the word of 500 eyewitnesses

I probably would too but a photograph would just as easily suffice and most crimes dont have 500 witnesses
Its far more likely that there are either no witnesses or very few and then it becomes a lot harder to decide
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby Silhouette » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:55 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:When you're dead, you'll understand...hopefully you'll repent.

On whose authority?

This is circular.

How do you know? Because the Bible said so
How do you know the Bible is true? Because God said so
How does you know God exists? Because the Bible said so

Looks like my last response got lost in the catfight, never mind.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:10 pm

Silhouette wrote:
FreeSpirit1983 wrote:When you're dead, you'll understand...hopefully you'll repent.

On whose authority?

This is circular.

How do you know? Because the Bible said so
How do you know the Bible is true? Because God said so
How does you know God exists? Because the Bible said so

Looks like my last response got lost in the catfight, never mind.


We don't know God exists for certain. We do know that the Gospels are very reliable historically. So in a sense you have to make a choice. Do you believe in the Gospels or not?

This is where Pascal comes in. He teaches us to look at the outcomes of our choice.

Since we're all going to die in a couple decades and be gone forever, the rational choice is to believe because of the outcomes.

It's much better to believe in the Gospels and be wrong than to reject the Gospels and be wrong.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby Silhouette » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:36 pm

Ok, so a reiteration of the initial argument.

Just doesn't seem worth it due mostly to the sheer improbability of being dragging into the choice in the first place.

There's negligible reason to believe in the Gospel tales. The traditional wisdom is fine, the rolling themes are good metaphors, the specifics are entertaining.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:02 pm

Silhouette wrote:Ok, so a reiteration of the initial argument.

Just doesn't seem worth it due mostly to the sheer improbability of being dragging into the choice in the first place.

There's negligible reason to believe in the Gospel tales. The traditional wisdom is fine, the rolling themes are good metaphors, the specifics are entertaining.


But as Pascal says, we are on the ship of life. We are embarked. We have to choose. Indifference is the same as atheism.

Regardless, I think we can agree on time. 100 years is much closer to 0 than it is to infinity.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:05 pm

Freespirit,

I'm not going to attack your arguments directly, as that's just boring and you already lost.

So let's have fun!

How about this: what if Jesus was the devil?

Interesting question eh?

So if god is death and Jesus is the devil, what do we have?

We only have logic. Those are the only clothes we have to dress ourselves with in this crazy existence.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:16 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Freespirit,

I'm not going to attack your arguments directly, as that's just boring and you already lost.

So let's have fun!

How about this: what if Jesus was the devil?

Interesting question eh?

So if god is death and Jesus is the devil, what do we have?

We only have logic. Those are the only clothes we have to dress ourselves with in this crazy existence.


Logic? You don't have any evidence to claim that Jesus was the devil.

If He was the devil, we'd both be screwed.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:27 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Freespirit,

I'm not going to attack your arguments directly, as that's just boring and you already lost.

So let's have fun!

How about this: what if Jesus was the devil?

Interesting question eh?

So if god is death and Jesus is the devil, what do we have?

We only have logic. Those are the only clothes we have to dress ourselves with in this crazy existence.


Logic? You don't have any evidence to claim that Jesus was the devil.

If He was the devil, we'd both be screwed.


See? That's what separates you from a philosopher.

Come back when you've learned more.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:30 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Freespirit,

I'm not going to attack your arguments directly, as that's just boring and you already lost.

So let's have fun!

How about this: what if Jesus was the devil?

Interesting question eh?

So if god is death and Jesus is the devil, what do we have?

We only have logic. Those are the only clothes we have to dress ourselves with in this crazy existence.


Logic? You don't have any evidence to claim that Jesus was the devil.

If He was the devil, we'd both be screwed.


See? That's what separates you from a philosopher.

Come back when you've learned more.


lol.

But there is no evidence that Jesus is the devil. There's plenty of evidence that He was divine.

What if the Gospels are true, and Jesus is the son of God?

You would probably have eternal misery because you knowingly rejected Him over and over again.

Go read Pascal then come back.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:34 pm

Freespirit, you are young in a perjoritive sense.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:37 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Freespirit, you are young in a perjoritive sense.


You are delusional in the defined sense...
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:44 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Freespirit, you are young in a perjoritive sense.


You are delusional in the defined sense...


Let's look at the actual facts then:

This world is shit on a stick.

You claim the messiah came here over 2000 years ago.

That's a logical contradiction.
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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:48 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Freespirit, you are young in a perjoritive sense.


You are delusional in the defined sense...


Let's look at the actual facts then:

This world is shit on a stick.

You claim the messiah came here over 2000 years ago.

That's a logical contradiction.


That's because the world didn't obey His teachings.
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