The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

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The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

Postby Guide » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:16 pm

" You say that my article isn’t definite; I am ready to make it as clear as I can. Perhaps I am right in thinking you want me to; very well. I maintain that if the discoveries of Kepler and Newton could not have been made known except by sacrificing the lives of one, a dozen, a hundred, or more men, Newton would have had the right, would indeed have been in duty-bound... to eliminate the dozen or the hundred men for the sake of making his discoveries known to the whole of humanity. But it does not follow from that that Newton had a right to murder people right and left and to steal every day in the market. "

This passage raises an issue. Who is the moral man? Clearly, the ordinary man would experience no "long night of the soul" over such difficulties. Who is, then, the philosopher?

Accordingly, I must inform the reader, Justice Kennedy has said not without some power: "For all the record shows, this respondent was not a philosopher and perhaps did not even possess the ability to comprehend how repellent his statements must be to the Republic itself." This is said about a man who burned the symbol of the country, the flag (who, himself, was likely not an ideological reader of Benjamin, or some such authority).

Ergo, suggesting a special characteristic which much contradicts the cold hand of science, i.e., of speech, from which all hobgoblins fly in fear. Is the philosopher, then, cold or hot?
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Re: The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

Postby barbarianhorde » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:35 pm

Well is the light of the stars over Siberia hot or cold?

Cosmic theater of which the philosopher is the stagehand.
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
~ Владимир Ильич Ульянов Ленин

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Re: The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

Postby Guide » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:43 am

Even rather stupid persons can learn glistering tunes by the finest musicians. Even worse ones can hear them with enjoyment. However, to abandon the claim to enjoy, and to stand with the work that is no longer philosophy, is not possible for the mass university, or the professoriate. The nature of the philosopher, and the philosophic acumen, although they echo and would make the human beings ebullient, have ceased to be philosophy.
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Re: The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

Postby Jakob » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:13 pm

Guide, you reminded me of the packaging of pharmaceuticals.
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Re: The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

Postby Meno_ » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:04 pm

Philosophy is neither cold or hot. It is like warm. Its neither professional in the sense that it must be studied and acquired within an established structure, it can be known intuitively as in an instant illumination through the western sense of a Sartori.

It will always come nearer to the earliest vestiges of what remains of the ideal, because without an ideal, the
other manifestation could not have proceeded to evolve and generate.

For instance, the cosmic questions may be a protracted process, as on an existential hold, but with development the answers do come through.

Epistemologycal answers need a shorter time of development , such as developing and producing ever more complex systems, however major premised archytipically posed ones need much more time, in fact temporally considered. those questions may become transcendentally ambiguous, since even planets and galaxies may 'die' in the interim. Those type of cosmic answers come too, but naturally not really understood in the time passages of the span of human life, or even within the brackets of generational epochs of cosmological durations.

The veracity of this hinges on what has evolved as probability of event horizon of and on the limitations of accumulated human knowledge, and have eclipsed certainty.

However, if certainty and probability through setting makers and signs have become indistinguishable, then constructive evolution may blur the evolution of such construction.

Hence, the question ultimately comes through as apparently insoluable repetition, but ensues ultimately as a cold philosophy.

As.the cosmic dance is a probably based absolute variance , the lukewarm becomes near absolute repetition between hot and cold.

" Doubt thou the stars are fire;
Doubt that the sun doth move;
Doubt truth to be a liar;
But never doubt I love.”
-William Shakespeare, Hamlet
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Re: The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

Postby MagsJ » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:48 pm

The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

This reminds me of my reply to a post I made in a political group on Facebook, on whether competitiveness between bestowed-privilege groups was a good/productive thing, to which my reply was that I think it turns people into overzealous assholes.. I think that can apply here too, where the need for 'becoming' far outweighs the need for all else in the race to the top.

In philosophising, we are trying to get our thoughts across/find truths, not to necessarily be right.. for what is the objective in being right? apart from becoming an overzealous asshole.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

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Re: The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

Postby Meno_ » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:07 am

MagsJ wrote:
The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

This reminds me of my reply to a post I made in a political group on Facebook, on whether competitiveness between bestowed-privileged groups was a good/productive thing, to which my reply was that I think it turns people into overzealous assholes.. I think that can apply here too, where the need for 'becoming' far outweighs the need for all else in the race to the top.

In philosophising, we are trying to get our thoughts across/find truths, not to necessarily be right.. for what is the objective in being right? apart from becoming an overzealous asshole.




I am in total agreement, and this is why. arguments, philosophical or otherwise, should have some kind of understood rejoinder clause, which would stop the possibility of going off the rails. In pursuit of truth emotions should be controlled
That is why I realize such at times needs a self awareness . which comes from one's inside and mirrored to the one we are arguing with
(Debating would be a better word used)

I personally see am under lying comic relief here , however for the sale of others who may not. some restraint should be exercised .

But it has been said that there is a point in tragicomedy, where the nuances are almost impossible to detect, and then it becomes a matter of undetermined cause.

If that's the case. then in all probability most part takers are guilty as charged to some degree

That is what I meant, between the funny and the sad part, there needs a major complicity but enough Of a doubt to keep it real.
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Re: The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

Postby Guide » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:34 pm

“This reminds me of my reply to a post I made in a political group on Facebook, on whether competitiveness between bestowed-privilege groups was a good/productive thing, to which my reply was that I think it turns people into overzealous assholes.. I think that can apply here too, where the need for 'becoming' far outweighs the need for all else in the race to the top.


In philosophising, we are trying to get our thoughts across/find truths, not to necessarily be right.. for what is the objective in being right? apart from becoming an overzealous asshole.”


You mean that the tradition, say in its guise as the specific intellectual position and outpouring of the current professoriate, as a shadow oligarchy of authority over all life on the earth, has the merit of not competing? And therefore can please the Menos of this world with their desire for genteel discussion about "ideals", whatever they may be, butrixed by the surrounding power of the university as it now exists. And the easy cogency of every word that conforms to the tradition and is echoed in the general opinion of human beings who have grown into the surrounds of that intellectual and moral view.

Establishing what is right would be to establish wisdom, and lead human beings to endless bliss on any serious account of philosophy. I think your view is partly based on allowing for the dire distinction between the European Science, and Wisdom. Any serious philosophy isn’t bound by that.

Of course, if philosophy is something fake, subjective, personal, a little hobby or sideline, then it doesn’t really matter and why bother making a fuss... The self-reserved protagonists of a Meno-life of convention and ideas easily supported by the standard powers of cliche would in that case be gigantically justified.
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Re: The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

Postby MagsJ » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:47 pm

Meno_ wrote:
MagsJ wrote:In philosophising, we are trying to get our thoughts across/find truths, not to necessarily be right.. for what is the objective in being right? apart from becoming an overzealous asshole.
If that's the case. then in all probability most part takers are guilty as charged to some degree

That is what I meant, between the funny and the sad part, there needs a major complicity but enough Of a doubt to keep it real.

Yes, and yes.. to both of the above: we can be guilty of over-zealousness in debate.. something that should subside, with experience garnered through constant debate.

Through that constant debate, one would suppose that emotion would give way to logic, and projecting cease.. or subside at the very least.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

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Re: The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

Postby MagsJ » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:47 pm

Guide wrote:
In philosophising, we are trying to get our thoughts across/find truths, not to necessarily be right.. for what is the objective in being right? apart from becoming an overzealous asshole.”
You mean that the tradition, say in its guise as the specific intellectual position and outpouring of the current professoriate, as a shadow oligarchy of authority over all life on the earth, has the merit of not competing?

Are you saying that this 'shadow oligarchy of authority over all life on the earth' are always going to be right.. because of that authority, or that they don't need to compete because they only deal in truths? under my above premise..

And therefore can please the Menos of this world with their desire for genteel discussion about "ideals", whatever they may be, butrixed by the surrounding power of the university as it now exists. And the easy cogency of every word that conforms to the tradition and is echoed in the general opinion of human beings who have grown into the surrounds of that intellectual and moral view.

Personally.. I think you have a secret soft-spot for Meno. ;)

You speak of a form of control of thought here: "And the easy cogency of every word that conforms to the tradition and is echoed in the general opinion of human beings who have grown into the surrounds of that intellectual and moral view."
or is it hive mind?

Establishing what is right would be to establish wisdom, and lead human beings to endless bliss on any serious account of philosophy. I think your view is partly based on allowing for the dire distinction between the European Science, and Wisdom. Any serious philosophy isn’t bound by that.

No.. I do not! Perhaps I just don't see any great Wisdoms out there in the world.

Of course, if philosophy is something fake, subjective, personal, a little hobby or sideline, then it doesn’t really matter and why bother making a fuss... The self-reserved protagonists of a Meno-life of convention and ideas easily supported by the standard powers of cliche would in that case be gigantically justified.

Subjective philosophies/views, lead to objective reality, and perhaps some of us like our own brand of reality.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

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Re: The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

Postby MagsJ » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:02 am

Are you saying that..?
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Re: The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

Postby Guide » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:35 am

You hold with the systematic destruction and censorship of the possibility of free discussion, so there is no point in speaking with you.
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Re: The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

Postby MagsJ » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:24 am

Guide wrote:You hold with the systematic destruction and censorship of the possibility of free discussion, so there is no point in speaking with you.

I do not, and I would greatly appreciate it if you would reply to my reply, as I would greatly appreciate hearing what you have to say, or.. as we say in modern parlance.. don't leave me hanging bro.

We can get past this Guide, as the need to knowing surpasses the need of all else.. ergo intelligent beings, and the most intelligent beings are egoless, but they are.. really.. annoying. :laughing-rolling:

No bad words have passed between us, so remember that in your consideration of my request.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

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Re: The philosopher, nightmare or hot bath?

Postby were34 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:48 am

=D> but who knows?
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