Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

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Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby thinkdr » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:54 am

A new essay has become available for your reading pleasure if you are interested in the ethical life, or a life that makes moral sense.

This paper will make you think and reflect about moral issues as you may not have done for a while.

Here is your chance to get a pre-publication view of the relatively-brief document. It's title is THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All

Here is a link to it, safe to open: http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

It is receiving favorable reviews.

How many stars would you give it? Your impressions of it are most welcome!


Comments? Reviews? Upgrades? Improvements?
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018) [NEW]
:!: http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf


[size=115]LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach (2014) http://tinyurl.com/mfcgzfz

ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

and ASPECTS OF ETHICS http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/ ... ics%20.pdf

When you Google this selection you may wish tostart with page 20 to skip the technicalities. Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/Ethics_A_College_Course.pdf
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby thinkdr » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:19 am

With reference to the philosophizing at this link - http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf - one critic, a professional programmer, wrote:

I greatly enjoyed listening to the essay this morning. Here are some of the things that stood out for me:

The title... rings true. It resonated with me. It even made me smile!

I liked the idea of basing ethics on the intrinsic value of the individual and using artificial intelligence and science to help create paths toward fulfillment.
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018) [NEW]
:!: http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf


[size=115]LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach (2014) http://tinyurl.com/mfcgzfz

ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

and ASPECTS OF ETHICS http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/ ... ics%20.pdf

When you Google this selection you may wish tostart with page 20 to skip the technicalities. Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/Ethics_A_College_Course.pdf
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby Prismatic567 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:00 am

I did a quick read and agree with many of the points therein which I had discussed before.

However I don't read of an impactful attention-getter in the intro of your article.

Something like this will get people's attention;

    Image
    At present there is a sense of terror around the world and how are you going to deal with the above terror morally. This books will show you how.

The stats above is not precise thus can be controversial but if you can present something impactful it will get people's attention. Currently there is the #metoo issues, more precise WMDs [latest Russian News] and others.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby thinkdr » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:59 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:I did a quick read and agree with many of the points therein which I had discussed before.

However I don't read of an impactful attention-getter in the intro of your article.

...At present there is a sense of terror around the world and how are you going to deal with the above terror morally. This books will show you how.[/list]

... if you can present something impactful it will get people's attention.


Thank you, Prismatic, for your helpful suggestion. I was counting on the subtitle of the booklet to be that bold attention-getter, since there is so much chaos and disunity in this country at the moment.

According to reliable information from the Southern Poverty Law Center, a source which I trust, there have been, in the U.S.A., more terror attacks by Right-wing Extremists than there have been murders, massacres, or bombings by Moslems :!:
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018) [NEW]
:!: http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf


[size=115]LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach (2014) http://tinyurl.com/mfcgzfz

ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

and ASPECTS OF ETHICS http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/ ... ics%20.pdf

When you Google this selection you may wish tostart with page 20 to skip the technicalities. Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/Ethics_A_College_Course.pdf
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby thinkdr » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:21 pm

This selection alluded to in the o.p. works to revalue the concept "self-interest," managing to differentiate it from "selfishness." It posits that good conduct ,conduct that makes moral sense, is actually what is in our self-interest. Some of us will help others from our empathy, compassion, and awareness that life is valuable, awareness of the intrinsic worth of a human being, but many others will ask: "What's in it for me?"

Among other points about which it philosophizes, its response to the people who ask the question, "What's in it for me?" is: being ethical is in your true self-interest. Then it gives the reasons why this is so.

I'd love to hear your impressions of the paper after you've read it over.

Read carefully, though, or you may miss a significant idea.
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018) [NEW]
:!: http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf


[size=115]LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach (2014) http://tinyurl.com/mfcgzfz

ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

and ASPECTS OF ETHICS http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/ ... ics%20.pdf

When you Google this selection you may wish tostart with page 20 to skip the technicalities. Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/Ethics_A_College_Course.pdf
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Posts: 480
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:09 am

thinkdr wrote:According to reliable information from the Southern Poverty Law Center, a source which I trust, there have been, in the U.S.A., more terror attacks by Right-wing Extremists than there have been murders, massacres, or bombings by Moslems :!:
Is your book restricted to the USA only?

If there are more terror attacks by Right-wing Extremists, then you can include that as well. But I don't think that is true for the last 10 years into the future. The notable non-Islamic terror attacks are the school shootings, the Las Vegas shooting and I don't think these people are triggered by right wing ideologies.

If there are any attacks on Muslims that has to be addressed. However I think the root cause of such attacks on Muslims are due to the inherent aggression of SOME evil prone Muslims who were inspired by the inherent evil elements within the religion. Here is from SPLC;

Anti-Muslim hate groups are a relatively new phenomenon in the United States, with many appearing in the aftermath of the World Trade Center terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... nti-muslim
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby Serendipper » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:27 am

thinkdr wrote:This paper will make you think and reflect about moral issues as you may not have done for a while.

How does one have a sense of integrity but also not be judgmental, overbearing, austere, etc?

It seems that categorization of good and bad behavior leads to a sense of self-righteousness.

Let take for example we agree to meet at 5 and I go to substantial trouble to be sure I do not inconvenience someone, but then they do not show up nor send message warning me that they won't be able to make it. So then because I went to such trouble out of consideration for them, now I'm pissed because they didn't reciprocate and I sit in judgment over them for not having a sense of integrity or basic consideration for others. Their defense is simply "You're too uptight!" as if I could have a mechanism for being easy-going about people not being considerate while at the same time holding myself to such a high standard.

What are we to do about that?

How do we hold ourselves to high standards without also demanding such standards from others because the only reason to have a sense of morality is out of consideration for others, but if others are inconsiderate, then why be considerate of them or be moral in the first place?

Ethics, it seems, is only game between gentlemen who've taken it upon themselves to play by those rules in competition to see whose integrity is tougher, for egoic bragging rights.
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby Serendipper » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:52 am

thinkdr wrote:According to reliable information from the Southern Poverty Law Center, a source which I trust, there have been, in the U.S.A., more terror attacks by Right-wing Extremists than there have been murders, massacres, or bombings by Moslems :!:

The statement paints an interesting picture since right-wing is typically religious and so is muslim and is therefore merely delineating christians from muslims in a country where christians far-outnumber muslims.

The Vegas shooter was left-wing, the atheist who shot-up the church in TX was left-wing, the guy who shot the republican congressmen was left-wing, the terrorization of statues was perpetrated by mobs of left-wingers on a crusade against "intolerance".

The point of ethics is division of good from bad and therefore "intolerance" is built into the system. So, left-wing is inherently unethical by ideological definition. There is no moral underpinning because anything goes: man on man, man on child, man on dog, man becomes woman and demands army pays for it. The only thing the left cannot tolerate is the intolerance associated with any type of morality. Therefore, as soon as one defines good and bad, he becomes enemy of the left whose sole tenet is: Thou shalt not demean the tenet that anything goes or we will crucify you and your despicable morality.
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby thinkdr » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:11 am

If you encounter a Moslem, treat him or her as an individual, not as a member of a group that you may have a bias against. Be, yourself, a shining example of the principles indicated in the essay, and in its linked references. Greet the person with a wish for peace: say "Salam alaykim." Then begin a discussion by bringing up the weather, or the person's health.

Then find a segue to one of the principles mentioned in those writings, and start teaching it to your new friend. Use friendly persuasion. Study up on the techniques of persuasion you will find on the internet. Some very good ones are offered there.

Eventually gain agreement on some common value. Use that to transition to teaching that vengeance, getting revenge, is self-defeating and counter-productive. Teach him or her the high value gained in nonviolent direct action as a way of combating injustice. Ask forgiveness for all the evil done to his people by people from your country. Ask him if he is ready to abandon violence as you have. Visit him at home. Tell him you've thrown away your gun! Invite him to do likewise.

After you have gone through these steps, let us know how it worked out.
At least you will have added one more individual to your network.
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018) [NEW]
:!: http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf


[size=115]LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach (2014) http://tinyurl.com/mfcgzfz

ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

and ASPECTS OF ETHICS http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/ ... ics%20.pdf

When you Google this selection you may wish tostart with page 20 to skip the technicalities. Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/Ethics_A_College_Course.pdf
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby thinkdr » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:51 am

Serendipper wrote:
thinkdr wrote:This paper will make you think and reflect about moral issues as you may not have done for a while.

How does one have a sense of integrity but also not be judgmental, overbearing, austere, etc?...

Let take for example we agree to meet at 5 and I go to substantial trouble to be sure I do not inconvenience someone, but then they do not show up nor send message warning me that they won't be able to make it. So then because I went to such trouble out of consideration for them, now I'm pissed because they didn't reciprocate and I sit in judgment over them for not having a sense of integrity or basic consideration for others. Their defense is simply "You're too uptight!" as if I could have a mechanism for being easy-going ....

What are we to do about that?


Greetings, Serendipper

Yes, there is a recipe for being easygoing, for having peace-of-mind and heart. You will find it in that 2-page chapter entitled Achieving Emotional Peace, in M.C. Katz - HOW TO LIVE SUCCESSFULLY, an Amazon Kindle publication (2017). https://www.amazon.com/LIVING-SUCCESSFU ... B01NBKS42C - cf. pp 83-84
The Ethics mistake, in the above story presented in your recent post, is when the one who was stood-up got uptight, if he did. And becoming judgmental.

If you had serenity, you would - just out of curiosity - casually ask that no-show: What happened? How come you weren't there?? (with a tone of voice making no assumptions as to his motive for absence.)
If the excuse given makes no sense, or is stupid, just casually ask: Do you think that not showing-up for an appointment we made is inconsiderate?

If you don't like the answer you get, just don't hang out with that jerk any more. You can continue to be courteous and well-mannered because that is the kind of person you are. You can continue to show that fellow respect, by holding the door open for him to go out first, etc. Don't abandon your high principles just because of his poor conduct.

In my life, if someone "through garbage at me" I would turn, face them, and say "Thank you." They would then be stunned with shock. ...would never repeat the ethically-questionable action. A wise rabbi once counseled, "Love your enemy." It is still true. It still works. Love drives out fear. When someone attempts to abuse you, you will show no fear. Have nothing against any mother's son or daughter. Whatever the question, love is the answer.

Technically, for classroom purposes, this is known as Intrinsic valuation. [I-Value for short.] Study up on it, in the works of the philosophical genius, Robert S. Hartman. He wrote the magnum opus, The Structure of Value.
Last edited by thinkdr on Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018) [NEW]
:!: http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf


[size=115]LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach (2014) http://tinyurl.com/mfcgzfz

ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

and ASPECTS OF ETHICS http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/ ... ics%20.pdf

When you Google this selection you may wish tostart with page 20 to skip the technicalities. Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/Ethics_A_College_Course.pdf
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby Serendipper » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:28 am

thinkdr wrote:Greetings, Serendipper

:D

If you had serenity, you would - just out of curiosity - casually ask that no-show: What happened? How come you weren't there?? (with a tone of voice making no assumptions as to his motive for absence.)
If the excuse given makes no sense, or is stupid, just casually ask: Do you think that not showing-up for an appointment we made is inconsiderate?

Well obviously death, coma, technological malfunction are acceptable excuses, but what I find often given are: "the kids called and I had to change plans" or "we decided to go for burgers first" or "my friends called and I decided to hang with them instead." All beg the question of: why didn't you let me know? The answer is: Well I didn't think of it or I didn't think it was a big deal. Never ever have I gotten the excuse of a car accident or some life-threatening situation where consideration couldn't be afforded for justifiable reasons. No, it's always lack of consideration: "I just didn't think of you or think you were worth bothering with."

And due to technological progress, blowing people off has become like a bodily function. Inconsideration is being increasingly ingrained in our culture simply because people are so abundant on social media that each individual's worth is negligible. If one guy out of 700 pitches a fit, then ignore him and focus on the easy-going ones who don't expect much, which leaves integrity antiquated and selects for the ones who don't hold themselves to any special standard.

If you don't like the answer you get, just don't hang out with that jerk any more. You can continue to be courteous and well-mannered because that is the kind of person you are. You can continue to show that fellow respect, by holding the door open for him to go out first, etc. Don't abandon your high principles just because of his poor conduct.

But what if it's everyone? Finding someone with integrity is like a diamond in the rough. I've gotten to the point that I'd rather throw things in the garbage than sell on craigslist because I can't handle one more person breaking their word to me. "I'll be there tomorrow at 6 to buy the widget you're selling" and I take time out of my schedule to be available at 6 only to find they don't show or call to let me know that they've changed their mind.

I've even gone as far as requiring folks to call me back in a few days just to be sure they really want the item before we make appointments. They have to demonstrate desire and ability to follow through before I'll consider them worthy of my making time for them, and I hate being like that because it's presumption of guilt, so it's easier to just not sell or have any dealings with the public.

In my life, if someone "through garbage at me" I would turn, face them, and say "Thank you." They would then be stunned with shock. ...would never repeat the ethically-questionable action.

I could see that but I think that is a little-bit different. If someone hates me, then they are taking me into consideration so I DO matter, but when someone is inconsiderate, then it's as if I'm inconsequential and nonexistent which is greater insult.

A wise rabbi once counseled, "Love your enemy." It is still true. It still works. Love drives out fear. When someone attempts to abuse you, you will show no fear. Have nothing against any mother's son or daughter. Whatever the question, love is the answer.

"Love your enemy" has many meanings, not just showering them with kindness as a means of dumping coals on their head. Loving enemies can mean the necessity of having people who disagree with you because otherwise there would be nothing to talk about, so you have to treasure your enemies in order for yourself to manifest. I need you to take the opposite position of mine in order that I know what I think.

Technically, for classroom purposes, this is known as Intrinsic valuation. [I-Value for short.] Study up on it, in the works of the philosophical genius, Robert S. Hartman. He wrote the magnum opus, The Structure of Value.

Thanks for the tip, but I'm not very good at that, unfortunately :( I'd rather you just give me the answer :D
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby thinkdr » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:16 pm

I came upon these thought-provoking quotes. They could serve as a supplement to the teachings found in the document to which a link is offered here:
THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

Conventional wisdom says to do good things and then you will also be good. Yes, you will be considered to be a good person by others, but you will remain unconscious and divided. Those who have enlightenment say: be good first and then you will do good things. Be real, be conscious, and the consequences will follow, but not the other way around.



Life is gift. Before enlightenment, life is a problem to be solved.
After enlightenment, life is a mystery to be enjoyed. Enjoy love, beauty, happiness, but do not strive for them or they will escape you. Just be authentic; conscious, and ego-less.



If you become totally conscious, you will do good things just because you want to do them. Because you feel it at your core that it is the right thing to do. When you are conscious, you cannot help yourself but do good and be good only. The effects will come back to you immediately, you don't need to wait for another life or heaven.


Comments?
Discussion?
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018) [NEW]
:!: http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf


[size=115]LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach (2014) http://tinyurl.com/mfcgzfz

ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

and ASPECTS OF ETHICS http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/ ... ics%20.pdf

When you Google this selection you may wish tostart with page 20 to skip the technicalities. Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/Ethics_A_College_Course.pdf
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby phyllo » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:15 pm

Those who have enlightenment say: be good first and then you will do good things.
What does it mean to be good without doing good things?
It seems logically impossible to "be good first".
Be real, be conscious, and the consequences will follow, but not the other way around.
Psychopaths are real and they are conscious.
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby thinkdr » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:03 am

phyllo wrote:
Those who have enlightenment say: be good first and then you will do good things.
What does it mean to be good without doing good things?
It seems logically impossible to "be good first".

On the contrary, phyllo.

The priority is first to devote yourself to being moral, ethical - to being a decent person who intends to be nice - to make that commitment, and thus set up a personal obligatory norm for yourself; and then live it. Put it into action by your subsequent conduct.

See the first paragraph at the top of page 22 here:
THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf -
for a deeper understanding of the order of priorities.

Employing the three basic value dimensions which Dr. Robert S. Hartman discovered as existing in the discourse and evaluations made by human beings, we note:

Systemic: The formal norms o of a symbolic-logic of Entailments - which eventually may prove to be relevant to the life of moral sense [moral health.]

Extrinsic: Facultative norms: An interpretation of those arid, pure Logic sentences, applying them to human relations and to moral concerns.
E.g., "Decent people are considerate of others; and they help others to rise."

Intrinsic: Obligative norms. For example: "I want to be a decent individual who will be considerate, help others to rise, and in general, create - rather than destroy - value in my encounters with others!!!!" And I intend to be so ...with my head, hands, and heart. :!:, with all the enthusiasm, inspiration, and passion I can muster :!: :!: I intend to create value. "


p.s. You may have noticed from time to time trolls operating on this site. Trolls destroy value.
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018) [NEW]
:!: http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf


[size=115]LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach (2014) http://tinyurl.com/mfcgzfz

ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

and ASPECTS OF ETHICS http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/ ... ics%20.pdf

When you Google this selection you may wish tostart with page 20 to skip the technicalities. Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/Ethics_A_College_Course.pdf
thinkdr
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby thinkdr » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:57 am

phyllo wrote:
Be real, be conscious, and the consequences will follow, but not the other way around.
Psychopaths are real and they are conscious.


Psychopaths are NOT conscious in the sense meant in that quotation.

To comprehend the usage of the concept "conscious" in that context, see the writings of Gabriel D. Roberts, especially on the topic of "enlightenment."

When one is conscious in the sense Gabriel means it, one has a heightened, intense empathy for others along with deep humility. Psychopaths lack empathy.

This is probably due to some brain damage. With very few exceptions we are probably all handicapped in some way; so this is not a moral judgment. Many adult psychopaths are nonviolent, and are aware of their handicap. Some even go to lengths to compensate for it.
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018) [NEW]
:!: http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf


[size=115]LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach (2014) http://tinyurl.com/mfcgzfz

ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

and ASPECTS OF ETHICS http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/ ... ics%20.pdf

When you Google this selection you may wish tostart with page 20 to skip the technicalities. Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/Ethics_A_College_Course.pdf
thinkdr
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby phyllo » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:05 pm

Psychopaths are NOT conscious in the sense meant in that quotation.
I realize the word 'conscious' is being redefined ... essentially making it synonymous with 'good'. That's one thing I object to.
When one is conscious in the sense Gabriel means it, one has a heightened, intense empathy for others along with deep humility.
Yes and it amounts to an impossible perfection as demonstrated by this statement : "When you are conscious, you cannot help yourself but do good and be good only."

Does that not seem like an absurd infallibility?

Even Jesus said that "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God". (That includes Jesus himself.)

Nobody is perfect and becoming 'conscious' is not going to make a person perfect.
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby phyllo » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:19 pm

On the contrary, phyllo.

The priority is first to devote yourself to being moral, ethical - to being a decent person who intends to be nice - to make that commitment, and thus set up a personal obligatory norm for yourself; and then live it. Put it into action by your subsequent conduct.
There is never a point in life when one is not doing anything so there is never a blank slate starting point.

You can decide at some point "to do good". What would it mean to decide "I am good"?

You are evaluated by others based on what you do, so simply saying "I am good" is not going to get any response from them without some sort of actions.

A self evaluation of "I am good" is simply a thought without any substance. Your actions are the evidence of your goodness, for yourself as well as others.
And simply making the commitment does not guarantee that your actions will be good ... you may be mistaken about what is good.
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby thinkdr » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:10 am

phyllo wrote:
On the contrary, phyllo.

The priority is first to devote yourself to being moral, ethical - to being a decent person who intends to be nice - to make that commitment, and thus set up a personal obligatory norm for yourself; and then live it. Put it into action by your subsequent conduct.


... making the commitment does not guarantee that your actions will be good ... you may be mistaken about what is good.


It is true that "our actions speak louder than words," and that we set an example by our conduct, an example that someone who is conscious {aware of how to tell the good from the bad} wants others to follow when it is a good example.

The commitment an ethical individual makes is to create value. This includes being nice to others, helping others to rise, being deferential (but not excessively so), being considerate, generous, empathic, kind, being of service, being authentic, sincere, inclusive, responsible, etc.

See the logical explanation for this in the first link below in the signature.

Questions, comments, discussion?
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018) [NEW]
:!: http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf


[size=115]LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach (2014) http://tinyurl.com/mfcgzfz

ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

and ASPECTS OF ETHICS http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/ ... ics%20.pdf

When you Google this selection you may wish tostart with page 20 to skip the technicalities. Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/Ethics_A_College_Course.pdf
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby thinkdr » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:59 am

thinkdr wrote:
phyllo wrote:
... making the commitment does not guarantee that your actions will be good ... you may be mistaken about what is good.


An individual is more likely to be good if he or she makes that commitment. We set an example by our conduct. It is an example that someone who is conscious wants others to follow when it is a good example. To be conscious is to be aware of how to tell the good from the bad, and to know the correct order of priorities. When one knows that one will put people first, above things; and things next, above mere opinions and dogma.

The commitment an ethical individual makes is to create value. This includes being nice to others, helping others to rise, being deferential (but not excessively so), being considerate, generous, empathic, kind, being of service, being authentic, sincere, inclusive, responsible, etc.

See the logical explanation for this in THE BREAKTHROUGH, which is the first link below in the signature.

Questions, comments, discussion?
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018) [NEW]
:!: http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf


[size=115]LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach (2014) http://tinyurl.com/mfcgzfz

ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

and ASPECTS OF ETHICS http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/ ... ics%20.pdf

When you Google this selection you may wish tostart with page 20 to skip the technicalities. Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/Ethics_A_College_Course.pdf
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby phyllo » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:50 pm

To be conscious is to be aware of how to tell the good from the bad, and to know the correct order of priorities.
How is that different from just saying : "To be good is to be able to tell the good from the bad and to know the correct order of priorities"

You're just substituting another word for the word 'good' without adding anything new.
The commitment an ethical individual makes is to create value. This includes being nice to others, helping others to rise, being deferential (but not excessively so), being considerate, generous, empathic, kind, being of service, being authentic, sincere, inclusive, responsible, etc.
The problem is still the same ... knowing what "creates value" and what removes value. If you don't know or are mistaken about what is 'good' then you probably don't know or are mistaken about what "creates value".

The concept of "creating value" is more abstract and removed from what drives a human being than the concept of 'good'. If one is to get a working ethics, then it seems to me, that one has to get closer to a human being. It has to feel real.
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:19 pm

thinkdr wrote:Conventional wisdom says to do good things and then you will also be good. Yes, you will be considered to be a good person by others, but you will remain unconscious and divided. Those who have enlightenment say: be good first and then you will do good things. Be real, be conscious, and the consequences will follow, but not the other way around.
Sounds like the choice of a rich person, someone who does not have to do anything now. Since most of us are doing already, mightn't one pursue goodness through acts already. I mean, if that is what one wanted to do. Since people often have completely opposed ideas of the good, there are problems either way, it just seemd an oddly detached life one would have to traing themselves in being, then later in doing.


Life is gift. Before enlightenment, life is a problem to be solved.
After enlightenment, life is a mystery to be enjoyed. Enjoy love, beauty, happiness, but do not strive for them or they will escape you. Just be authentic; conscious, and ego-less.
[/quote]I am wary of people who tell me I should be egoless. I notice they tend to take up a lot of space and are silently judgmental.


If you become totally conscious, you will do good things just because you want to do them. Because you feel it at your core that it is the right thing to do. When you are conscious, you cannot help yourself but do good and be good only. The effects will come back to you immediately, you don't need to wait for another life or heaven.
I don't think this holds for psychopaths.
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:22 pm

thinkdr wrote:An individual is more likely to be good if he or she makes that commitment.
Hitler made a commitment to be good.
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:20 pm

A critical point to understand is that criminals are unethical because
they are selfish.
Or there is a problem with the laws.
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby phyllo » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:22 am

A critical point to understand is that criminals are unethical because
they are selfish.
How selfish are you supposed to be? Allowed to be?

Obviously, you're doing things for yourself - you're not living entirely for other people.
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Re: Important Announcement about a new paper on ethics

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:19 am

phyllo wrote:
A critical point to understand is that criminals are unethical because
they are selfish.
How selfish are you supposed to be? Allowed to be?

Obviously, you're doing things for yourself - you're not living entirely for other people.
yes, and further, what I would tend to call a good person is someone who it is great when they are selfish. Decided not to listen to their family and pursued an odd career they loved. And this selfish love led to them doing what they cared about which ending up helping people and also kept them from being a bitter commuter to a prestigious job they did not want to have. Too much ego, being selfish - thes kinds of criticisms stifle precisely the people I wish felt free to do what they want and have no affect on the people I wish it would.
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